The Tortured Fans Department

Ep. 54 - 'Songs About Jane' - Maroon 5 (The Record Club - Volume 2)

• Shaun Boyle • Season 1 • Episode 54

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Shaun is joined by Ryan Amodei for the second installment of 'The Record Club' where we dive deep into our favorite records. 

Today we breakdown Maroon 5's 'Songs About Jane'. 


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SPEAKER_02

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Tortured Fans Department podcast. As you can tell from the artwork for this episode, it is volume two of the Record Club. I am joined by Mr. Ryan Amade. He's the man behind the introduction music. He is a resident music expert. Ryan, how are you?

SPEAKER_01

I'm doing great. I'm excited. I'm juiced up for this one. Record club official name, very excited about that. This is uh this is an all-time favorite of mine. I'm I'm very excited to get into it.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, so for some context, if you're new to this program, if you're new to the Record Club, the first one of these that we did, we did not have an official name for the program yet. We knew what we were going to do with this series, but we didn't have a name for it. We didn't have artwork. Since then, we've called it the Record Club. Each album we dive into will be a new volume of the Record Club. The idea behind it is basically I'm going to have friends of the show, fans of the show, or friends of my own outside of the show, come on and talk about music that they are passionate about. The first episode, I was a bit selfish. We did my favorite record of all time. We did Rumors by Fleetwood Mac. So you could go check that one out. But this one is one that was selected by Ryan, as you could tell. It is Songs About Jane from Maroon 5. We're going to structure these similar to how we do our album review episodes. It's basically a deep dive into the music. It's going to be about music we are passionate about. Ryan, why did you bring this one to the table?

SPEAKER_01

This is an album that I have been ringing the bell for for upwards of two decades of my life. Anybody who knows me with any level of intimacy or detail knows how much I love this album and knows how passionately I feel about how good it is and how, in the grand scheme of albums, it gets criminally underrated. And I think that's due to just who Maroon 5 is now, which we'll get into later. But uh, this album to me is a work of art, it is a masterpiece. For me personally, it isn't my top five favorite albums of all time. It was constantly on in the car as a kid, and just as I grew up, I think honestly, it it may have shaped some of my musical preferences in a way because I listened to it so much so young and for the better. So all those things are why I'm stoked to be talking about this album today.

SPEAKER_02

I am not going to claim to be as big of a fan as you are, or as passionate about this, I should say, as you are. There's not many that no, no, you're you might be getting paid under the table from Adam Levine himself. We need to check on that. But I am a huge fan of this album. I have long been a huge fan of this album. I think it's the first CD I ever owned. It's the first CD I can remember owning. So I'm thrilled that you brought a record that I really enjoy to the table because it would be tough if the second episode of this was something I really couldn't relate to. There will be times where people are introducing music to me, but this is one it felt like visiting an old friend. Very nostalgic feel when I put this on. Before we get into the record itself, can you tell us a little bit about Maroon 5? I'm assuming I'm safe in saying this was your introduction to them, right? Because I know we were both young when this came out. This was certainly the first time I ever heard of them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this came out when we were like, I don't know, seven or eight or something like that. Yeah, it was definitely, yeah, it was it, it was definitely my introduction to them. It was their debut album as Maroon 5. They were a group for a long time though, prior, like through like late middle school and high school. Um, so they'd been together for quite a while under a different name called Kara's Flowers.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, pause for a second. I think Kara's Flowers might be a cooler name than Maroon 5. I'm not so sure that was a good change.

SPEAKER_01

There's a debate, there's an argument to be made. Well, Kara's Flowers, uh, their first album flopped. So they went back to the drawing board. Oh niche. They had four original members, three of whom are still in the band. One is the drummer. Again, we can get into the story in a little bit, but uh drummer had phased out, they got a new drummer. Um, but yeah, so this was their debut album as Maroon 5, and boy was it a good one.

SPEAKER_02

A strong debut for sure. So talk to me about how Maroon 5 was formed as a band. Because assume I know nothing about these guys. Start from zero and tell me exactly how, where they're from, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so they're from California, LA. Uh, they formed while attending uh the Brentwood School in Los Angeles, again, as Karis Flowers. It's uh the original four are Levine, Jesse Carmichael playing the keys, Mickey Madden playing the bass, and Ryan Duzik on the drum. So that means that Adam Levine was vocals and playing guitar. He was the only guitar player in the band originally. So, again, those four together for a long time, good friends. Uh, their influences were like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Green Day, kind of some of that heavier stuff. And then they signed with a major label while they were still teenagers and released this album called The Fourth World in 1997. Did really poorly commercially, and the label ended up dropping them. So that was their first album as the core four of them. Um, Levine then goes to college in New York for a semester at a school called Five Towns College, which I had had never heard of. Uh was there exposed to some different musical ideas, so some more like kind of RB soul kind of vibes, and it changed his musical taste a little bit. So he starts listening to a ton of like your Stevie Wonder, Prince, Marvin Gay, Michael Jackson, that kind of vibe. And so that kind of changed uh, you know, his preferences and his writing as well. Uh, and then the biggest shift to the band after that, so the band remained together. He actually only went to college for a semester I was reading. Uh so he went to New York for a semester and then went back to to California. Sounds like our boy Johnny, uh Berkeley.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, honestly, I have a working theory that no famous, successful person completed college. They all went to college. They give it a try. None of them completed it. You never hear, oh, they graduated and they started a job at Google. No. They dropped out to chase their dreams and they fucking achieved them. And they did. That's what it seems like. You never really hear about the people that had a normal post-grad life. They were hunting for jobs their senior year. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

No, absolutely not. I instantly thought of John Mayer, it's the same thing. It's like, oh, but it went to Berkeley. I think he went to Berkeley for like a year, maybe. So the biggest change from this old band to what becomes Maroon 5 is they add James Valentine on the guitar. And that is where their sound really takes a uh a next step because then you're not asking Levine to do as much guitar-wise. He can focus vocally. Valentine can play more of the lead stuff, which he does on this album, and it's freaking amazing. So that is kind of the lead up to then they make songs about Jane as this new band called Maroon 5.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, interesting. I did not realize in my head there was always one previous album as Maroon 5. I don't know that I've ever fact-checked that, and obviously that's not the case.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I honestly didn't know.

SPEAKER_02

I kind of thought that this was their second or third, their first two or whatever, and this was their real breakout, but I didn't necessarily think it was their first. So that's interesting to learn. Let's dive into Songs About Jane itself. How did this record come to be?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it was released in 2002, uh, recorded kind of the year prior, and then into that. Uh, it was recorded on on Octone Records. Uh the producer is Matt Wallace, who was at the time more known working with his uh work with Faith No More and then Train and Blues Traveler, which I thought was interesting. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Faith No More sings. What's that? They have a big song. Is it it's it? What is it? It's it. I think that's Faith No More. Epic by Faith No More, I think is the song.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. I I I'm gonna leave that in either way for listeners, but gun to my head could not have told you a Faith No More song, but it is that song, yes. It is, yeah, just elite ball knowledge by our boy SD. So the the inspiration, you know, maybe not the not not the most abstract thing in the world. Adam Levine had a girlfriend named Jane, and they broke up. Uh, they were together for several years, and her name's Jane Herman, and they break up, and that is really what inspires this album. It's really not a whole lot more than that. She was his girlfriend during the late 90s, and he was devastated by their breakup. Uh, he later admitted that most of the songs were written during the emotional aftermath, and then he he described it as a diary, even. So that's kind of where the lyrical you know influence comes in, makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_02

Not to be confused with the diary of Jane, which is Breaking Benjamin.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02

That is a good poll. Breaking Benjamin are Wilkesbury area boys, so that's yeah, they they're from the 570, so they they've always been a means.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I had a little Breaking Benjamin phase.

SPEAKER_02

It's funny. Who amongst us hasn't? But it seems like the album has come from a much simpler place than the one we previously discussed with Vermers, because that was the complexities of that band are unmatched.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, these dudes weren't all dating each other and like breaking each other's hearts and stuff. No, this was just one singular breakup outside the band. Uh so unfortunately a little bit less dramatic. Worldwide sales. So it ended up doing like 10 million copies, but it was kind of a slow burn from what I read, which is interesting. It kind of like trickled over time into selling like a ton of records, but the first year I think it was only like three million. And then, like, as the radio hits kind of became more prominent, they sold more and more and more. They did end up winning the best new artists at the Grammys in 05. So, again, like kind of that slow burn of popularity. They weren't considered a new artist, you know, by the Grammy Sams or whatever until 05, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_02

That is kind of crazy that they put the album out in 02. Yeah, and they won best new artists in 05.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, kind of wild. Um, and then I found this really fun fact about the album today. Uh, are are you familiar with Rashida Jones, the actress? Yes, of course. Anne Perkins, Parks and of course, yes. She sings background vocals on three songs on this album.

SPEAKER_02

Nah. I was like, That's stunning.

SPEAKER_01

What yeah, no idea what the context is or anything, but yes, she is on three of honestly my favorite songs on this album singing backups. So pretty wild.

SPEAKER_02

I can't believe that. You should have led the show with that.

SPEAKER_01

What can't Ann Perkins do? Unreal. Unbelievable. Yeah, really. So yeah, so that is the that is the story of the album in some context there.

SPEAKER_02

I appreciate you being the one diving in. It was really nice to just kind of pass the ball and let you cook. I I like that. So, as always, now after we've prefaced the context of the artist, some background on the album, we we have to do a song-by-song breakdown. We like to dive in instead of reacting to songs for the first time as we do with our album reviews. We've been with these songs for a while, 24 years now at this point. So we know them. We know them inside and out, but we're just gonna give you our thoughts on them in chronological order. Ryan, the first track is harder to breathe, and boy oh boy, it's a great start to an album.

SPEAKER_01

It's so good, man. I mean, you know, like like I don't have to say it that those those iconic eighth note kind of snare drum lead in right into the I mean, it is it is perfect, it's angsty, it is it it screams like angry kind of breakup song, but it's still refined in so many ways. That electric guitar riff is awesome, the solo section is awesome again. Valentine right off the bat, shredding and yeah, to me, it's an awesome opener for this album. I love this song. And are we gonna do the tears situation again?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I should have brought this up, but we will always, for these the record club volumes, we will always tier the songs in one of four tiers. So the first tier is kind of iconic, best song on the album, stands the test of time, that sort of quality in the song. The second tier is a little bit below that. Really good, strong, sometimes could even be great, but it just doesn't transcend into iconic. The third tier is a good, fine song, but it's more so it fits within the context of the album, but it's nothing to write home about. And then the fourth tier is of course the cut. We don't need it, it's a waiter, I'm done here, take it away type situation. So I'm interested to see if you'll have any of those on this record. But where would you place harder to breathe?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I am uh I'm going to mess with you a little bit here because I have slightly different tiers for this album. So forgive me. My tiers for this album are going to be so the in my opinion, primarily, the iconic, transcendent songs on this album are not the best songs on this album, in my opinion. Okay, so like uh like uh, you know, dreams from Fleetwood Mac would be in that kind of one-one category. For me, we'll get into it. Those are not the best songs on this album. So I have a category above that that are like the legitimate best songs on this album, like the S tier songs on this album that are usually very underrated because they are not in that iconic. We we both know where they're gonna be songs that are gonna last forever from this album. And that's okay. There's those songs are still amazing. But I for me, there's there's ones that are better.

SPEAKER_02

Well, let's just reframe it. We'll still do the four tiers, but you don't necessarily need to use the word iconic to because I know what you're saying. There are songs that are still played frequently from this album, and those are the ones that you'll likely hear people refer to as iconic, but they're not necessarily the best on this record. So let's just shift it and say this is all personal to us. So your favorite song should go in that first tier, and then we'll work your way down from there. So shift your scale accordingly, but I do want to try to keep it consistent for all of these episodes so we have historical points to go back to.

SPEAKER_01

Got it. So good. Uh all right, we can get on the same page there. That's great. Harder to breathe is in first tier for me. It is an awesome, awesome song. I think a theme that you're gonna hear me talk about a lot is the ability of Maroon 5 in this early stage to just play so many different styles so well. And for somehow, nearly every chorus on this album to be so good melodically and just so unique, Harder to Breathe is a great example of that. I just love the way the song is written. I love the structure. Uh, for me, it's a musically excellent song, so it's gonna be in that first tier for me.

SPEAKER_02

This was a first tier song for me as well. Okay. I'm with you. I love this song. I will say, and this is a general theme throughout the album for me. I I don't know what it is, and I'm gonna have a hard time explaining it, which makes for good podcasting. But basically, the pacing of this album and in this era of Maroon 5, something induces anxiety with me. I'm not one of these guys that's running around saying, Oh, anxiety this, anxiety that. I, for some reason, it almost feels like spooky in some places, and harder to breathe gives me that vibe. It's almost like a Halloween album in some ways. I think that's a very tone to it. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there's there's a there's a effect in Harder to Breathe where they're basically like, yeah, it's like a breathing thing. So I get what you're saying for sure.

SPEAKER_02

So and and it being the first song of the album, while I love it and it's it's easy to sing, I think that like you said, melodically strong. I I like everything about it. I just wanted to point out that theme from the album because even the songs where they're not breathing like they're chasing you down, I feel like there's still something about a few of them where I'm like, oh, there's a weirdness to it that I don't dislike, but it's just something I wanted to note as to why maybe I don't go back to this one as often as some other records that I would say I love.

SPEAKER_01

I the as I look down the track list, I think I'm seeing where those ones are, and we can talk about them, but I'm not gonna disagree with you. It doesn't turn me off in the slightest by any means, but I get I get where what you're saying when it comes to that kind of like spook effect. So curious to hear what other ones you would kind of notate that on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's almost like and I listened to it again, obviously preparing for this, and it didn't deter me in any way. I sang every word, I loved it. But it's maybe a reason I don't seek the music as much as I do some other things that I would objectively rank equally. It's just you maybe you need to be in a specific mood to listen to a couple of these, but listen here. Harder to breathe is as good of an album opener as you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01

So good.

SPEAKER_02

Quality song, and they follow it up with track two, which is one of the ones that does transcend the test of time.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

It is this love, which I if I had to guess, Ryan, I would say this one is one that maybe isn't one of your favorites, but it's one of the ones that is uh quote unquote iconic.

SPEAKER_01

It is, it's iconic, and for good reason. It is as good of a pop rock song as you can come up with. I mean, I don't it it's gotta be maybe on the Mount Rushmore of pop rock songs. It's a great tune. It is catchy, it is groovy, it is what everything that I want pop music to be, and it no longer is. But yeah, so for sure, it's iconic, it will transcend time. People will sing the song forever and ever and ever. For me, it's tier two. Like I would say it's it's a great song, it is iconic for a reason, it is not musically or lyrically in that upper, you know, S tier for me. So that's where I end up landing on it. But it doesn't mean I dislike it by any means. It is going to be around for a long, long time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the only reason I was considering not putting this in tier one was because maybe the fact that it's it's still played so much and it's still so prevalent, it almost works against it in some ways. But I have this one as tier one, actually. It's just when you think of songs about Jane, this love is one of the first things you think about, if not the first. So definitely. I just I would feel disingenuous putting it anywhere else. And I also think just in terms of what I like hearing, the chorus is super catchy. Like you couldn't forget that chorus no matter what you tried to do. And also, there's this little melodic change at the end of the second verse where he just shifts the melody a little bit, and I love that part of the song. So it's just it's a winner for me, and there's a reason why it's still pretty prevalent in today's world.

SPEAKER_01

Would you agree that it's a Mount Rushmore pop rock song? See, this is you putting me on the spot pretty pretty good here.

SPEAKER_02

This is a that was a good job by you. I'll say that. I will say yes because there's no ramifications if I don't, and I couldn't come up with four better answers for you off the top of my head. Like it's serious for you every day. And it's a good, genuinely good song. So, like, yeah, I don't I have a hard time saying it's not in that pantheon.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02

Take us to the third one, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01

All right, so third third tune is Shiver, and this one is criminally underrated on this album. I love this song. I can see where it would fall similarly for you in that harder to breathe category where there's a little spook factor, so I'll let you talk about that. But this song, the guitar work on this song by Valentine is so good. The again, just like the uniqueness of the chorus, another kind of realm of like genre and style here. And the yeah, uh to me, it's it's an awesome song that no one talks about, but again, belongs in that top tier for me. So that's where Shuger falls.

SPEAKER_02

I have it in tier two, just below, because of you mentioned it. There's a line in the song that says something along the lines of you feel your heart begin to race, or you feel my heart begin to race, and it speaks exactly to that thing, and it's the pacing or something, and it's again, I don't dislike it, it's just something about it gives me a little heebie jeeby where I'm like, I don't know that to put this on on like a sunny day where I want to bop to some music, and that's kind of how I feel like this album should be played because it's it's pop rock, but yeah, the notes of it are just they have these undertones of something I don't necessarily associate with warm weather. So that and also the name Shiver, you know, that's another thing.

SPEAKER_01

It's like it's supposed to be a little uncomfortable, I think. I get it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So I yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's a complex feeling I have about this album because I love it, but I'm gonna this one falls into tier two. So so far through three songs have gone tier one, tier one, tier two. So we're really off to it. We're off to hot start.

SPEAKER_01

Hot start and shiver, I'll say this too. The guitar solo in Shiver is so awesome. The solo section with the breaks, and I mean it's just it's so good, man.

SPEAKER_02

Can I add, I had that in my notes to talk about the solo section, but also I have my notes, these guys know how to close out a song. The last minute of almost every song, especially Shiver, She Will Be Love, Tangled, The Sun, they rip the last minute, minute 15. And the song gets better as it goes, and I'm like, wow, that that's just it leaves you wanting more, which is all you could ask.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, I mean, they're if you if you listen to we'll talk about this a little bit later. If you listen to the live versions, like they're they're straight up jam-band, like on this album live. It's it's freaking awesome. Which is another, yeah. We'll get to the line.

SPEAKER_02

That's kind of similar to how they are now, honestly. That's what I think of. I think Goose, Dave, five now.

SPEAKER_01

We'll we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Oh god. Uh all right, number four is another one that will will likely stand this the test of time here. She will be loved. What do you got?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I have, I mean, the word iconic comes to mind. This one it really, really it holds up. It's so poppy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

The chorus is so easy to sing along to. And I think it's it's honestly money from a songwriting perspective that it's simple. And that's one thing I will ding this album a bit for. I'm a big lyric guy. And I don't think we're ever super complex on this record, but I don't think that was their intention. It was a breakup album where they rock out and create pop songs. Hey, good for you. You did a great job of it. But I think this one, the hook of that song, it just stays with you. Yeah. It's so good. How can you not sing along? I wrote I wrote that. And then the last time they go to the chorus, it hits just a little different. It's another one where it gets better as the song goes on, and that last chorus is like, oh, you mother saw me there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's because it drops out after the bridge and then it goes gets gets big with that last chorus. So good. So where where you have it? Tier one.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Tier one. Yep. I don't want to do it, but I kind of had to. I was again between tier one and two, but I kind of stayed true with like the iconic theme. I would agree with you though. This one isn't one of my favorites on the on the other.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I'm not ever going to this one first.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But I think we need one of us to have it in the first tier.

SPEAKER_01

And right. And I'm glad it's you because I have it in tier two. And that's and again, that's not a shot at it. I think you said it really well. Like the the chorus is like, I don't know how much more singable you can get a chorus to be where like you can get an arena singing this. I mean, it's just like it's so easy, but it's it's amazing. I really like the guitar work on this one too. Again, with the differentiation in tone and style, right? Like you go from shiver to you're I mean, the guitar solo ends the song shiver, and then you're right into this like clean little guitar lick to start this one with the rim shots on the drums. Like it couldn't be more dynamically different, but it works so well. I know I love this part of the album. Like I at this point, I've heard the album through so many times that they all just kind of transition into one another. Like, I just know what's gonna what's coming. Uh, and this transition is a really cool one. So, again, not my favorite song by any means. So, being authentic to myself, I'd put it in tier two, but it it's one that will last the test of time, similar to this love on this album.

SPEAKER_02

I'm actually gonna make the change too. I'm sticking to my guns. I said to you, we should do it how we feel. For me, it's tier two. It's tier two. Yeah. It again, people will know it more than they will the rest of this album, aside from this love, maybe, but in terms of what I'm seeking, it's just a little bit below some of these others. So let's move on to track five, which is Tangled, Ryan. This is a really, really strong one. One of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01

I love Tangled.

SPEAKER_02

Of my favorites. I would say it does a good job. There's no super high highs in this song where we just pointed to like an iconic chorus or a hook or the solo section in shiver. It doesn't really have that for me, but it's just consistently pumping 92 on the black. Yeah. And you know what? You're gonna win a lot of games with some movement on it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I totally totally agree. To me, this is one of the best songs on this album. That the tones of the instruments are so perfect that keys to kind of open it. Like, I mean, it just like it just dances. And I love the drum beat on this one too. It's super unique, it's not your straight two and four. It's got some cool snare hits where you're not expecting it, plays perfectly with what the keys are doing. Um, and then the again, another awesome chorus. Like this out, like there are really maybe one or two songs that don't have outstanding choruses on this album. Like they just wrote chorus after chorus, banger after banger. And this is another one um where it's just easy to sing if you know it, uh, kind of ascends. So, yeah, for me, this is uh tier one. I love Tangled. I think it's another one that just gets so overlooked when you're talking about this album.

SPEAKER_02

I would agree, overlooked is a word that comes to mind. It's sandwiched like right after She Will Be Love Too, and that's what everybody sees. Like, oh, I know this song, that's on it. And you just get you skip over Tangled, but it's that's a good one. I have that tier one for me.

SPEAKER_01

Love it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm a big, big fan of that song. The sixth track is The Sun, and I'm interested to hear what you think about The Sun.

SPEAKER_01

This I go back and forth, honestly, a lot. I think about this album probably more than I should. I go back and forth on whether this is my favorite song on this album or not.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01

I love The Sun. The it is the it's such a chill vibe, but it's so good musically. Another heater of a chorus, like it leaves a lot of room for uh that kind of lead guitar work, especially like the live version that's freaking awesome. But I I just love love the the way that this song is composed, the the keys again doing so much great work. And Levine, this Levine sounds awesome on this one. That chorus is special to me. So it's it's tier one for me, if not my favorite song in this album. I I really, really love this one. And you may you may disagree.

SPEAKER_02

I do disagree. It's not near the top of my favorites on the album, but I I have gone back and forth. I'm high on this one too. I have gone back and forth between tier one and tier two. I love it, it's really good. I love the chorus too. You said how every chorus they leave you wanting more, and they pop, they they they get all the right notes of what a pop chorus should be. So a credit to them because it's hard to do that three to four times on an album. They did it like 11 or 12. So really impressive. I'm gonna go just to be a little bit different. I'll put it in tier two. It's probably my top song in tier two because it, like I said, just misses out on tier one. I love this song, and it's easy to listen to, which I appreciate. We talked about some of them having that anxiety-inducing feel, not this one.

SPEAKER_01

This one's just insane. This is a good like it sets the tone early, like fresh turn under my fingernail, like walking home. It feels like uh it feels like a hot summer day, you know. Yes, and I'll say this too. I love the drum beat on this one. The is that the drum beat that starts the song. Such a just like iconic start. Can't get enough. Love the sun.

SPEAKER_02

The this one, it does, it's aptly named the sun. You listen to warm weather. Hey, that's what we're looking for, right? I like that. Exactly. I think I might be zagging the opposite direction of you here. We have track seven is must get out. I don't know what you think of it, but I have a feeling I'm gonna be higher on this one than you.

SPEAKER_01

I think you might be too. Yeah, okay. This one is one of the couple that I do have in tier three, and again, this is not by any means a bad song or even like a mediocre song. Like, I think it's a good song. Spoiler alert, I'm not throwing away any of these songs on this album. I love this album and every song on it. But if I gotta get nitpicky, this maybe is one that just musically is less interesting to me. That's really all it is. Um, I actually again, I actually really like the chorus of this song. I think again, melodically, it's so good, but just to me, musically, it's it's a little more straightforward, not as groovy, a little less happening. And so for me, that just kind of like lands it a little bit below what we've been talking about.

SPEAKER_02

I think this one for me, it serves as a reprieve from well, there's a lot going on musically in this album, and I appreciate that, and I like those songs, but I think you need a couple change-ups. And this song melodically scratches an itch for me. I absolutely love the melody of this song, I love how it builds.

SPEAKER_01

It is it's good.

SPEAKER_02

I think Levine's voice sounds elite. Here it's a masterclass from him, and he has a voice that could be a bit taxing at times, it could be tough to listen to. Yeah. Especially going straight through a couple times like I was doing for this. It's like, okay, Adam, I've heard it. But this this one, I really, really just enjoy it. And I knew musically it didn't hold up to the others, so I had a feeling you would be a little lower. I'm a tier two and I love it. Like I go back to this one more so than I go back to some of the iconic ones from this album.

SPEAKER_01

I I respect the heck out of it.

SPEAKER_02

It's about a s I love songs about cities.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

City men's yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Totally agree with everything you just said. It's also honestly the bridge is really good too. Yeah, it's sick, dude. Yeah, again, I'm just being super nitpicky here, but I I really actually do like the song.

SPEAKER_02

That's that's good. I'm glad we have we have some varying opinions, but we're pretty similar in how we feel about the music. The eighth track, my goodness. I mean, just Sunday morning. Yeah, it's tier one bullet for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. To to me, there's three, you know, we talked about this with rumors. There's like, you know, those songs that will transcend time and space that generations and generations will know. There's there's three of them on this album for me, so this is the third one. Uh we talked about the other two. I mean, it's what else is there to say? Like, you know, it's what's coming. I would say it's a near-perfect song. It's called Sunday morning. It feels like a Sunday morning. It is the chorus, it's just it's uh it's art, it's masterpiece. Again, like you said, I agree about Levine's voice, where it can be a little bit taxing at times, especially in the newer stuff. Uh but this one is it's perfect, it fits so well. It's it's really three chords for most of the song, but the chords are so like jazzy that I really don't mind it, and it provides a really nice bass for some cool soloing stuff live. The demo track of this one on the 10th anniversary album is really good, and it has a keyboard solo actually in there, which I really like. But yeah, I mean, it's like iconic as they come, people will be singing it a hundred years from now. Yeah, tier one.

SPEAKER_02

I couldn't agree more. That was the easiest, quickest tier one I think I've written so far. I just love that song, start to finish. And I emphasize the start too. It just grips your attention immediately. And it it's unique, it's it stands out, it's so good. Especially when you're listening to an album straight through to you're looking for songs that pop and really grab you because especially if you know it, you you could get lost in the sauce a little bit. You know the song, you're just kind of going along through the motions. Sunday morning, every time grabs your attention.

SPEAKER_01

And it's one that I feel like a large percentage of people could identify just from that drumbeat in the first like five seconds of the song. You know what I mean? Like it's it just it transcends that kind of musical preferences thing, and just like most people will hear and just know instantly what it is, uh, which I think is so cool.

SPEAKER_02

Now I want you to talk to me about the ninth track, which is Secret. And this one is another change of pace, I would say. It's different pacing-wise than the rest of the album.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this one uh would be another one that I would would probably fall into that tier three for me. I like the song. I really like the guitar riff as well. It's subtle, it's cool. Even the the drums in the BN, like it is like groovy, but again, just a little bit less interesting overall, I think, might be the the weakest chorus on the album of and on an album of like great choruses or elite choruses, even. That would be probably my opinion. I'll say this though, and I'll talk about this live concert in a minute, but the live version of this song, they end it with ain't no sunshine, like for a couple minutes, which is really cool. It goes kind of perfectly into it. But yeah, tier three for me, and and I'm nitpicking, I would not cut the cut it from the album. I think it still fits within the confines of the album, but not one that I go back to like constantly.

SPEAKER_02

I was close, Ryan, to cutting this. To cutting, yeah, I had a feeling. Yeah. And the reason why. Again, musically, not bad. It's not like, oh, I don't really like the sound of the sound's fine. The songwriting in this one, I had particular exception with. There was a few lyrics where I don't I didn't write them down, but it was basically like, I'm driving in my car, I'm driving fast. I've got a secret, and I can't tell. And I'm like, dude, what are we doing? It's like, what are we doing? You know what I mean? Like, we need something better than that.

SPEAKER_01

So dude, you're allowed to cut it. Cut it if you want.

SPEAKER_02

Well, then I listened to the live show that you suggested, and I saw them going eight no sunshine, and I was like, Well, you can't cut get rid of that. So I have put it in tier three, and I don't have anything in tier three, so I'm happy to put something in there. And I would prefer not to cut one when we only have 12 songs. There will be albums we talk about with 20 songs, and there's gonna be several cuts from those. When you only have 12, I'm happy not to cut too many. So I'll be keeping secret, but it's on borrowed time.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'm glad I'm glad I knew you would appreciate the ANShine thing. But I mean, it's it's so good. I mean, but yeah, okay, glad we're on the same page though. That's good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Track 10 is Through With You. I'm a fan of this one. I really dig this one.

SPEAKER_01

It's so good, man. Well, you go go first on this one.

SPEAKER_02

All I really had was this. It's like if you were to describe the the quintessential Maroon 5 sound from this album, I think there's a few songs you could point to and get the message across. And I think Through With You does a good job of that. It's one of like five or six that are all similarly good, where you're comfortably in like, hey, yeah, oh, that's the first Maroon 5 song you heard. It's a good one, isn't it? I think that holds up, and that's impressive enough. When you could point to several songs on an album and be like, Yeah, you're gonna get the gist of this band if you listen to that. I think Through With You is Maroon Five to a T.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a good song, man. I I completely agree. I think that's a really good point. I think there's a couple of songs. Really, most of my tier one, I think, are is how I would describe what you're talking about. So this this one is in my tier one as well. Another one that gets completely overlooked, is completely underrated, does not get the respect it deserves on this song. Such a cool instrumental breakdown after that second chorus that is just so like good early maroon five. It's just like a oh, it's such good music. And another great chorus, like it just this one lends itself to some really good guitar work too. I mean, James Valentine is so legit on this album, like, really, really, really good stuff throughout it. So, yeah, I I I love this one tier one for me.

SPEAKER_02

I do have a tier one, uh tier two, tier two, yeah. Tier two. And again, it's almost like I need a tier within the tier because there's songs that are like close to tier one that are in tier two, and there's songs that are close to tier three that are in tier two. I would say it's tier one and a half, but it I I'm trying to be a little stricter on not just handing out willy-nilly tier one. So I do have a tier two. The second to last track, the penultimate, is not coming home. Another one, just good, good, good song. I really, I really like this one too. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01

This this would be one of the ones I would kind of go back and forth as like my favorite on the on the album as well. And just again, such good guitar work. I love the the verses of this one actually. Um, and then that pre-chorus, and it's just like the whole thing, yeah, the the drum beats kind of interspersed throughout. It and again, I haven't said this in a little bit, but you think about just the versatility of a song like The Sun or like Sunday morning must get out, and then you compare it with this through with you not coming home, like it's so excellent on both sides of the coin for me. But this one, that wahwa on the guitar in the intro. So I yeah, I mean it's it's per it's it's perfect. Um, so yeah, this one is a top two or three song on this album for me, so it's absolutely tier one, and another really unique chorus I think is great.

SPEAKER_02

I had this one tier one as well. I I didn't want to put both through with you and not coming up tier one, and I just prefer not coming home a little bit. The funkiness to it, there's a funk to that guitar, and it's just it rips, and I'm like, yeah, man, every time you you hear the opening, you're like, Yep, let's go.

SPEAKER_01

And the whole song is driven by that riff, which it's not like they're not just playing chords, right? Like the whole thing is over. And it it even the they're singing over that, which to me it keeps it kind of moving in a way that's so unique, like you said. So I'm glad we're on the same page on that one, too.

SPEAKER_02

And then lastly, the uh the album flies by. It's I mean, it's it really does it breath and it's gone. The sweetest goodbye, which is aptly named, it's not the strongest track for me. I'm not a super fan of this one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, agree. I think for me, this is one that fits its place in the album really well, but is not one that I go back to often. So I have it in tier three in that I I'm not cutting it. I do actually think it's a nice kind of end kind of outro to the album, but as a standalone song, like it's just it's it's fine. Uh maybe not quite. I would say secret is probably my lowest, and this one would maybe be like one above that.

SPEAKER_02

I have this actually as a cut, my only cut.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02

It's just I don't need it, and never once in my life have I put it on. So, you know, like I've listened to it every time I listen to the album straight through, but I can't ever say it grabs me. I've tried to give it a chance, and it's not bad, it's just not needed, is my take, you know? If I had to be ruthless and cut one, I I would pick this one. And it's not necessarily like I need to cut one, I'm fine with it existing. It's just you know, just to put one in tier four, I'll say sweetest goodbye. It just doesn't move the needle for me.

SPEAKER_01

And to be honest, not coming home. That that end of not coming home could be a cool ending to an album, too. That's a great point. Didn't even think of that. So yeah, get out of here, sweetest goodbye. Just go in there. No, I respect the take there again. But like I I can see the rationale. I have no I have no gripes about it. I just think for me, this start to finish this thing is special, so I I wouldn't, I wouldn't, but I love that.

SPEAKER_02

When it's an album you're passionate about, it's great if you don't have a single skip on it.

SPEAKER_01

That's sick.

SPEAKER_02

So I don't and honestly, I'm being a bit harsh in cutting. You know what I mean? It's not like one of get this off. Like there's some albums where there's a couple songs that are absolute Bowser's duds, no thank you. This isn't that. No, but overall, just a phenomenal album. Before we get to what has happened with this band, let's just give our final takeaways on the album, and then we could kind of transition into what on earth Maroon 5 has turned into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So this album for me, and again, like there might be some nostalgia here. So, like, you know, take that with a grain of salt. But I just think it is so unique. It um there there are the vast majority of songs on this album are catchy with like above excellent choruses. Like, like you said, to me, you're lucky if you get three or four like awesome choruses on a 12 to 15 song album. I really think there might be like nine or ten on this one. It's really that good. And it's and to combine that with the instrumentation that you're seeing, the solo sections that you're seeing, the variety of tone and sound and genre that you're seeing in a in a stretch of 12 songs that are, I don't know, what, 40 minutes? That is the the defining kind of the those are the defining factors of this album for me. It it just combines so many different styles in a way that is just artistic, and and I I love it for so many reasons, but yeah, I'll stop myself there.

SPEAKER_02

I think you did such a good job, not only choosing this album, but laying out the context, laying out what you like about it. And the biggest thing for me, you touched on it there, the biggest word I wrote down when going back to this one is was nostalgia. And I said it might have been the first CD I've ever owned. The album artwork is iconic. Oh my gosh, it's so good. You it's one of those like, oh, that's weird five songs. And I I think that should count for something. I think just the overall vibe of the album, at times there are moments where I don't go back to it, and I think it might be because of that thing where I don't know if it's a specific mood you have to be in to listen to some of these songs or what it is, but there is something about the pacing of a couple of these that really just does. I I keep using anxiety, I'm gonna use it one more time. I don't know. It gives me an unease, is what I would say. It's like I can't really just sit and do work listening to this, or if I'm walking, there's like a oh, it's like if somebody heard what I was listening to and I was walking right now, it'd be a little weird. I don't know. There there's just something about a couple of them that keep me from going back to it more than I should. But when I did go back to it for this exercise, I was thrilled and I loved it and I fell immediately back in love with it. And there obviously are those iconic ones that stand out that you hear in your everyday life that I've heard a thousand times since this album came out, and I've always enjoyed those. And me and you have bonded over this album a million times because we talk about the next point, which we have to bring up of what the hell happened to these guys? Because this album is a work of art. It's truly one of the best pop rock albums, not only of the 2000s, but for our taste ever. And since then, I haven't dug deep into their music, Ryan, but they've been pretty much dog shit.

SPEAKER_01

It's it is like the stereotypical like example of a the music industry just like eating something alive and turning it into something that it wasn't originally. So, like when you hear, when I hear like the musical masterpiece that this album is, and I don't I'm not just like throwing that word around. Like, I really genuinely believe that this album is like so excellent on so many levels. To then turn around within like a five year period and put out some of the stuff that they do, and then just stick with that route and go with it, is such a clear money grab. Influenced by these like toxic music executives. It is like the biggest shame ever. I I I mentioned this a couple times, but the the listeners, if you get a chance, after you're done with this episode, go on YouTube and type in Maroon 5 Friday the 13th. It's like an hour 15 minutes, and they basically just play this album live, essentially, with one extra tune called Wasted Years, which is actually a good tune as well. But it is outstanding. I mean, even Adam Levine is up there shredding, like legitimately playing the guitar, like not just playing chords, like soloing. And then so you finish that hour 15, and then the exercise that I want you to do is I want you to put moves like Jagger on. And I want you to gauge your emotional state. Because my goodness, it is such a shame what happened to these guys. And sure, maybe if someone threw me a bag of money and said, all you gotta do is play crappy pop songs, you can do it. Like, cool, maybe I would do the same thing. Um, but the other guys are non-existent. I mean, God bless them, like they went completely into the shadows. Hopefully, they're getting their money to just do nothing because all they're doing is press and play and letting Adam sing now. I I looked into it, and so the next album was It Won't Be Soon Before Long, which is like kind of this like transitional where it's like makes me wonder is like kind of like a pop rocky song, wake up call and won't go home without you. Like you're like trending towards it, but not fully.

SPEAKER_02

I don't I remember won't go home without you. Yeah, that's yeah, that's like that. What a bad name for an album, too. It just doesn't even make sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it doesn't at all.

SPEAKER_02

What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01

But you're starting to hear that shift happening, and then so what apparently after that album, the drummer left, which was a big kind of thing. So they replaced him with a new drummer, which I don't think really kind of tipped the scale, but it's hey, I won't stand for it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not playing, I'm not playing the little dude.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, I hope that's what it is. That would be an awesome story.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not here to play. I really do that. That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Um and then 2011 is when the album with moves like Jagger, and that moves like Jagger specifically, like that song is what catapults them into this just pop group, and really pop singer, Adam Levine. Like the rest of them, again, just like don't exist in the scheme of it anymore. Then Adam Levine becomes a huge celebrity in turn, right? He's doing the voice, he's you know, in all this pop culture stuff, TV appearances, magazines, all that stuff. And then it just becomes like Adam Levine and like you know, a computer at that point, and then they just start getting overproduced, and they hire these outside writers, all the production and all that stuff. And so it's it's it's a lost cause once a movie like Jagger comes out and it gets so so successful, like they didn't have a shot after that because the money was probably flowing so good that they were just doing whatever they were told. So sorry, I just went on a little uh filibuster there, but that it's one of my favorite topics to talk about, and it like it's one of those things like if you know, you know, and the people that agree like really agree. Uh, there's there's a small army of us out there, but it's just really a shame when you think about this album's been out for 20 something, what, 20, 20 years now, 24 years now. Like, what could have been the last 24 years of this band, like really stuck to its roots and just kept making stuff like Songs about Jane?

SPEAKER_02

What is so funny to me, Ryan? You and I know each other very well. I would argue we know each other's musical tastes almost as well as any two people could. And what's so funny is you, you guys, I'm gonna point to you, Adam Levine. You ruined an entire genre of music for Ryan Amaday. This guy hated pop music with a fervor because of you guys and what you did to him. And I'm a guy who's always appreciated, especially girly pop. I'm a big Taylor Swift guy. So I've always been more in that camp than Ryan has. And I think a large part of that is due to what you specifically did when you guys sold out. It's so funny how you were like a you're like a a beaten dog when I would introduce you to pop music, you'd be like, I don't you'd like to stick one toe kind out and be like, I don't know if I could get closer because it's just it's all too familiar. It's so bad what what these guys became. It's an absolute nightmare compared to this album, which is like you said, masterpiece work of art, phenomenal, phenomenal album. And then to hear some songs like Payphone and moves like Jack, it's tough, man. It's tough in these streets.

SPEAKER_01

We're putting like, you know, Glow Rilla or like we like all these people, like they're literally featuring all these like what are like what is this? I I just I I can't, man. It's it's it's really devastating.

SPEAKER_02

While we're piling on Adam Levine, he almost ruined one of my favorite movies of all time with his presence. He is such a bad actor.

SPEAKER_01

What movie?

SPEAKER_02

In Begin Again. Hello. I don't know if you've ever seen this movie, Ryan. Let me tell you this. If people ask you what's your guilty pleasure movie, mine with a without a moment of hesitation every time is Begin Again. I've heard you talk about this before. I love this movie. I think it's a great movie. I have it, I think on my letterboxed it's it's like a 95. It's hot.

SPEAKER_01

You told me about this. I still haven't watched it, but I need to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's so rewatched, it's the most rewatchable movie of all time. If you like music, you'll like Begin Again. And that's in spite of Adam Levine throwing up an absolute huller of the poster. This guy, oh my god. No, oh no. And here's the best part: he plays himself. He plays a fucking rock star, he plays a pop rock star. And he does it totally. But the the movie's great. Kira Knightley, Mark Ruffalo, Haley Steinfeld, her acting. I mean, probably not her debut, but she's in it. It's phenomenal. It's a really good movie. And Adam Levine tried his best to ruin it. So I really don't like the guy. Never was a fan of Team Adam on the voice. It's really because of what they did after this album. But we have to grade the album, Ryan, as we always do. We have to put a number to it out of a hundred. I will let you go first, as you were the one who brought this to the table.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm I've been going back and forth on this all day because if we ever get a graphic made of all of our rankings of an album, like, do I really want songs about Jane being?

SPEAKER_00

Which we will be that will happen today, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like, like it'll be out in the universe that I put that I ranked this album above rumors by Fleetwood Mac if I were to do that today, which I'm not sure I want on my on my record.

SPEAKER_02

You want that on your resume? That'll stick with you. Yeah, that's like a DUI. That'll stick with you.

SPEAKER_01

It's tough. I don't like yeah, it's it feels like a sin to do that.

SPEAKER_02

What did you give rumors?

SPEAKER_01

I want to say 93.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I gave it a 98.

SPEAKER_01

I want to say 93. And so that being said, hopefully we do a bunch more of these. I'm gonna I'm gonna go on level ground and also give this a 93. A nine even 93. Even 93. Yeah, yeah, man. How about that? I think the nostalgia, like, I don't know, the nostalgia plays into it a little bit, but I I don't know. Even remove it, man. Like every it's it's everything that I am looking for in like a uh a pop rock album. Uh, you know me, I lean more like jammy kind of stuff, but like this really like scratches my like musical itches in a lot of ways. Um and so yeah, it's it's fantastic. Like I said, it's a top five album for me. I would be it'd be disingenuous to rank it any lower than that. So that's where I land on it.

SPEAKER_02

I have given it a 92. Yes. Yeah, I think I'm pretty firm with that. I think it's an A-it's really, really, really good, and there's not a ton of albums that sound like it. No, and part of that is a credit to Adam Levine, too. While his voice could be taxing, it's also unique and he he can sing uh uh pretty damn well, especially at this time of his life. So the only thing that kept it from being higher for me, honestly, is the song writing and a couple lyrics. They just feel a bit basic and undercooked, but when you're jamming and grooving kind of like they are with the melodies that they created and the choruses that they created, you could be saying la la la. And if you do it in that manner, I'm gonna be a fan. So it's it's a really, really good album. I thought you were going to go more towards the 98 range because here's what I was gonna ask. If you're not giving this like a 98, what are you giving a 98?

SPEAKER_01

Dude, honestly, half the reason.

SPEAKER_02

There's a lot of room between a 93 and 100, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01

I gotta be honest.

SPEAKER_02

Just so you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, in my heart, I want to.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's what you you're a heart guy. You go with your heart. I've never known you not to go with your heart.

SPEAKER_01

Am I allowed to change?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Alright, I'll go 96.

SPEAKER_02

And you gave you gave rumors a 95.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I did, yes. Oh, I had more legal room than that was my own honestly, philosophically, I just didn't want to look like an uncultured swine ranking it that much higher than rumors. But I'll go one point above rumors. That's fine. 96.

SPEAKER_02

You were 95, I was 98 for rumors. So you've gone 96. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

96. I'll go one point over where it's not like complete blasphemy where my opinion is completely invalid. But I do love this album so much, and uh, that's truly how I feel.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Ryan, I'm glad you brought it to the table for the second volume of The Record Club. I'm having fun doing this. There's people lining up to join with some albums they're bringing, so I'm excited about that. Yep, we've got we've got some good ones on the way. Ryan, if you I'm gonna task you with this. Go back to the lab, come up with another one you want to talk about because I'm always happy to have you on.

SPEAKER_01

Let's go. I love doing this. I'm so glad that you gave me a public forum to talk about one of my greatest passions in life, which is songs about Jane by Maroon 5. So thank you for indulging me on this. I I always have fun doing this with you, and glad we could uh share some conversation about an incredible album tonight.

SPEAKER_02

It's always a pleasure to talk to you. It's always a pleasure to talk about music, especially when it's good like this. So thank you again for joining me. Listeners, thank you all for tuning in. Please be a friend, tell a friend, like, subscribe. You know what to do. We appreciate it. And until next time, take care.