The Tortured Fans Department

Ep. 58 - 'Born in the USA' - Bruce Springsteen (The Record Club - Volume 3)

• Shaun Boyle • Season 1 • Episode 58

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Jake Myers (@CFBJake) joins the program to dive into an iconic record from Bruce Springsteen. 

'Born in the USA' is one of the best albums of the 1980's and one of the more iconic American albums ever. 

As always, we go through the history of the artist and the album's background before doing our track by track breakdown. We wrap up the show with our final thoughts on the record and leave you with a score. 

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SPEAKER_00

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Tortured Fans Department podcast. I'm your host, Sean Boyle. As you can tell from the episode title, from the cover art, it is a record club episode. We are joined by a recurring guest, but it's his first time on the Record Club. It's Mr. Jake Myers. Jake, how are you?

SPEAKER_01

I'm doing excellent, Sean. And I just want to say I listened to the rumors episode of this, and I absolutely loved it. Absolutely loved it. Although, need more respect on never going back again. I think it's an underrated song off that. But anyway, loved it. So when you came to me about it, I was fired up.

SPEAKER_00

And man, I had a great time on this listen back. I love to hear that you enjoyed it. We appreciate your listenership. I I take the note in stride on never going back again. That's I knew you were gonna have a little point of contention. I'm surprised that one was what it was. But today, as you probably could tell from the episode title, we are going to be talking about Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA. It is officially July. We have the fourth right around the corner, and we thought, what better album to talk about than this one? Jake, you were the one who picked it. So I'm gonna let you just talk about your familiarity with Bruce and why specifically you chose this album to bring to the table for your first appearance on the Record Club. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, one great tie-in to the Fourth of July. Um, I'm a Bruce Springsteen fan, but I am not as big as other people because I mean, and the people listening should know this. Bruce Springsteen fans, like the Loyalists, are insane. I could never get to that level. I like Bruce. I own four Bruce albums on vinyl, one of them being today. And and listen, this album, and I'm gonna say it a bunch. Uh you might want to have the the ticker here for me for this, but this is as Americana as it gets, I think, for an album. So I thought it was perfect for the summer for the Fourth of July coming up.

SPEAKER_00

I think it is a great pick for those reasons. Also, we have the United States and the World Cup. There's World Cup fever spreading, so there's a lot of national pride going around. I think this album does a good job of representing all those things. So I'm glad you picked it. I would say I'm similar to you. I'm I'm probably less of a Bruce Springsteen fan than you. I'm nowhere near one of those loyalists, but I do enjoy his music. I I listen to him a good bit. I would consider myself just above a casual fan, maybe if I were to try to frame it. But I think we're both, I think we have enough qualifications to talk about this one. I will say I'm glad you're leading the way in doing most of the heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, and listen, uh, I uh again appreciate you have having me on. And yeah, I I I really like Springsteen. I really do. But again, I I can't even try, I don't want to have any like stolen valor that I'm like a huge fan because like I can't possibly get to the level as some of those people some of those other people. But yeah, man, it's oh man, I had a blast listening to this.

SPEAKER_00

Well, let's let's get into it. As always, we're gonna start with a little bit of the artist background. Jake has some notes prepared about just Bruce, how the band came together, those sort of things. So why don't you kick us off with that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, so Springsteen's from New Jersey. I I think the majority of people listening probably know that. But here's the thing he gets the record deal and he wants to basically recruit all these great musicians in that New Jersey area, which leads to Greens from Asbury Park, because the majority of those musicians are from that area. And Bruce gets the record deal, and you know, he gets the legendary Clarence Clemens, who is going to come up a few times uh in this episode. And then later in 75, probably the more um one of the more famous people from the E Street band, uh Little Steven Van Zant comes in in like 75, and then that's really that core Springsteen lineup for the next seven years.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, that's that's good to know. I did not know much about the E Street band other than Clarence and Little Steven, little Stevie. They hit his a bunch of different nicknames. Jake, did you know that he he was in in one of your favorite shows, I believe?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes. So uh again, music fan first. I'm watching the Sopranos, and I'm just like, how do I know that guy? And then I looked him up, I'm like, oh my, it's little Steven. You know, uh you know, it's fun, and again, they're from New Jersey. It's it's really funny. I mean, I understand why that throughout the Sopranos you never get a Springsteen reference. And I would say it's because you can't cross those two you know worlds. Uh yeah, the the whole which this is what I found funny. Springsteen himself gets the record deal, and he's just like basically recruiting artists from that Asbury Park area, and then again later gets little Steven uh a few years later for that classic E Street lineup. Also, the professor on keyboards, Roy Britton, I want to say, and then those are like the the core kind of the core guys in here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he assembled kind of the Avengers all to New Jersey, as you said. So that's interesting how the band came to be. Why don't we talk specifically about Born in the USA? This is the album we're going to be diving deep into today. What's some background information on this record?

SPEAKER_01

Well, first off, uh came out in June of 1984. It was the seventh studio album from Bruce Springsteen, and it went number one all over the world from in 1984 to 1985, off of Columbia Records, by the way. It was number one almost everywhere. I mean, I think like half the record is singles too. Like half the record has a single, so I thought that was pretty interesting. But yeah, this went number one like everywhere and had a you know, just a ton, a ton of hits on it. It was produced also by uh Bruce Springsteen, uh John Lindau, Chuck Plunkin, and then also uh Steven Van Zant, which Sean, by the way, Steven leaves the band like halfway through recording this album. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so he gets like he says he kind of gets caught up in politics and his own education, and I think he just wasn't focused on music. So he leaves the band in like 82, 83, I think 83, when they're making the album. So he still gets producing uh credit, but he was not there for the end of the album.

SPEAKER_00

I did not know that. And there's actually a point in one of the songs that I'll bring up. I'll make sure I revisit this topic because I think it might be relevant. So that's interesting. It's a hundred percent gonna come back. Okay, okay. I didn't know that, but now I'm piecing it together kind of as as we go. So that's that's good stuff by you. Good research. This one for me, it felt a bit more pop focused, pop-oriented than any of Bruce's previous work. I was wondering if you kind of thought the same thing, especially coming off the back of Nebraska, which is anything but a pop rock album. It's a lot different than this, it has a different feel. So I was wondering if you kind of thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's definitely more it's definitely has elements of more of a pop rock album. You still have that, you still have a few songs that are very Springsteen-esque and stuff that sounds like it probably could have gone on Nebraska, but again, it's ticker number two. It it's it just feels like America in the 80s. It just feels it feels like summer, it feels like again. You wouldn't talk about like the summer hits, you know, the summer songs. This one I think has that there's a handful of them on here, but it's that pop rock make you feel good. You still have a couple, you know, uh heavy heavier songs mixed in, but yeah, this is definitely more of a pop rock album.

SPEAKER_00

I completely agree with you, and also I think it's a good point because this album not only just how it sounds is synonymous with America in the 80s, but the iconic album artwork is synonymous with just the best, among the best ever. And you hit you have it exactly show it off.

SPEAKER_01

There we go. Yeah, uh pick this one up. This is an original, so this is my uh the people who can see Bruce Springsteen, born in the USA, uh, original copy. You can see it was the original uh stamp, like the price stamp, eight $849 for this album. And I love how it also has also on cassette, like that's great on there too, which I think is pretty cool. Yeah, this is like it's the image is iconic. Oh yeah, yeah, it is. It was also featured in um the Born in the USA music video, and I that red cap that you see that is Bruce Springs on uh Bruce Springsteen's back pocket, I think shows up in glory days. But yeah, Bruce Springsteen's backside here, Sean. Bruce Springsteen's backside, just iconic album art, and it's so simple.

SPEAKER_00

It is simple, but sometimes that's what that's what makes it work. And like you said, it doesn't get much more iconic than that. So I think we've covered the background of the album, the background of the artist. It's time for our track by track breakdown, Jake. You just referenced Born in the USA, which is of course the opening track to this one, the title track. This is, I mean, we're of course going to put these songs into tiers as we always do. I guess I should preface tier one is iconic, great. Tier two is really good or great. Tier three is kind of fine, it's good. You wouldn't cut the song, but it it exists in the context of the album, it's nothing special. And then tier four is unfortunately a cut from the record. So I'm interested to see how you interpreted those tiers. I'm interested to see where you put these songs. But the first track is I mean, it's the title track, like I said, it's iconic, and uh, I would be shocked if this one goes uh anywhere other than that first pocket. I will say for me, it's a clear first tier song.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, so it is it is so I use the term elite. Okay, I use the term elite, so this is top tier. Sean, here's here's the deal with this song. I go through waves with this song because it is so it's played so much. So much. It's one of but you know what? I I as I was listening through that's what that's what still makes it elite, though. Yes, it's it's overplayed, but there's a reason why. And then like when you really sit down and just listen to the song, it it's a great message, lyrically fantastic. It tells a story, and I think we're also at the point now, Sean, that like people understand the lyrics now. Like people understand this is a protest song. Uh famously, Ronald Reagan tried to, you know, not to get political. Ronald Reagan tried to use it, and Springsteen's like, hey, that's not what you think it is. This is a protest song. I think like two decades people didn't get it. I was thinking for like two decades people didn't understand this song.

SPEAKER_00

I was late to the party as well, I would say. When I grew up, my mom, this CD was in my mom's car when I was young. As you know, my mom, Jake, she's 80s rock. She's she loves it. So I know this is right up her alley. But so this song was or this album was in my life for a long time. When I first heard Born in the USA, I would sing the chorus. I didn't have a Scooby-doo what it was about. But then as you said, you come to realize and learn what it actually is about. It's about the mistreatment of Vietnam veterans when they return to the States, and it is a protest song. And it doesn't, I think I don't know how many. I would be interested to see if we pulled the general public what percentage know that it's not just this Lottie Dottie, we love the USA type of song. But I do think in recent years, many more have learned. And I think the reason we've seen it played so long, Jake, and so frequently is people play the hits, you know, and this one is just it's just a hit, it's a certified hit.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, it is. And you want to talk about greatest protest songs of all time. It it's definitely in there again. I think people are kind of understanding it now just because of Bruce's political affiliations and how he's been outspoken. So I think people are kind of understanding it now. But man, there's like two decades where people were just like, Oh yeah, born in the like man, like this is not what you think it is. I think I was probably in college when I figured it out. I was like, wait a second, that's not what this means.

SPEAKER_00

I was late to learn about Santa and I was late to learn about this.

SPEAKER_01

So listen, iconic, iconic song, you know, greatly written, great message. It's elite. Is it overplayed? Yes, but man, you you have to keep it in that top tier.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's one of the best. Yeah, it would be gross of us to not put it in the top tier. Now, I would I'm not gonna speak for you, but I will say for myself, it's not a song I'm personally seeking out too often just because of how overplayed it is. So it's not, you know, I'm not dying to go out of my way to put this one on, but I hear it all the time, and every time I hear it, I have I tip my cap in respect.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh Sean, I'm glad you said that because I had something similar in my notes. Like, this isn't a song when I'm driving that I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna put this on because I've heard it so many times. However, if it's on the radio, if it just comes on, or if I'm just out somewhere and it's on, it you you go back to that appreciation of how good this really is.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. We don't need to spend much more time on on track one. Born in the USA, it will forever be an iconic song. It's tier one for both of us. Track two is cover me. And Jake, I'll just say this is one of the ones that I knew, but then when you're revisiting the album, it's one that you you're like, damn it, I miss this song. I haven't heard it in a while. I love, love, love the energy of this song. I think the guitar shines, I think it's good pacing throughout. There's exciting parts, the solo section's great. This one flirted with tier one for me, but I ultimately ended up putting it in tier two. But I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_01

So I also have this in tier two. Again, you want to talk about like how this is more of a pop rock album. I feel like this is like a very much like this is a dance song. This is a song that I could see sneaking its way into 80s nightclub like playlists because it it's just it's fun. And yeah, I think it's a great song. I I put it in that second tier as well. I wasn't really flirting with it to that elite one, but this is one where exactly like you said, man, I forgot how good this song actually is. Where I'm like, wait, do I have this downloaded? Like, is this in my rotation? And I'm like, it's not. So I did hit the download button after that.

SPEAKER_00

I did the same exact thing. I I put it immediately into my rotation. This one and another were both kind of forgotten favorites for me. So and that's why I like doing these, honestly. Like, sometimes it's music I'm not familiar with, sometimes it's music I'm familiar with but forgotten about. But both of the last two, the one that Ryan brought with Songs about Jane, and now that you brought this album to the table, both times I've found myself loving songs and adding them into the mix. So that's I guess the ex the point of the exercise. The third track is Darlington County. Now, I'm gonna let you go first because I don't know how we might have just been at this time.

SPEAKER_01

So this is tier two for me. This is a great song. I still like this song. It's a great song. It is in my you know, summer cookout playlist type stuff. Again, uh ticker number three for Americana. This is one of those Americana type songs about two guys going down to South Carolina to Darlington, you know, chasing girls, you know, trying to make money. You know, I'll tell you this, Sean. I think this is more of a 4th of July song than Born in the USA. It mentions the 4th of July. And then at the end, the Shalalas. I love the Shalalas in this song. I thought it was a great touch. That's where it loses you.

SPEAKER_00

I'm out on the Shahlalas. I'm out. You're out of the way. I'm not a fan of the Shahlalas. I had in my notes, I don't love songs that do a wa la or shawa la. And this one too many for me. So it's not it's not a cut for me. It's not a tier four, but it is a tier three. It it okay, it's just something I do like the Fourth of July reference. You're right. I do think this song has definitely more of an actual Fourth of July feel than Born in the USA does, if you really dive deep. But yes, something about I think this is a song that sounds similar to other songs on this album. And in my personal music taste, I prefer those ones to this. So that's kind of why I see this as potentially expendable. I won't cut it, but it will fall into that tier three for me.

SPEAKER_01

When you have that many heavy hitters that we're about to get into, I could see someone being like, hey, this is on the this is a weaker one. And by the way, nice sack solo by Clarence in this. I mean, beautiful, beautiful stuff. Yeah, I like I like Darling, I like Darlington County. I think it's a good, I think it's great. Great song.

SPEAKER_00

Clarence saves the day a little bit in this one. I I do, I do. Everybody's probably most famous famously knows Clarence for his appearance in the Christmas song, Santa Claus is coming to town, that Bruce covers, where he he says, You guys been practicing real hard. Oh, not many, not many. Clarence, a lot of bad girls, boys out there. When he shouts him out for a name in that song, I think that's his most famous association. But Clarence shines throughout this album, so I I do appreciate you bringing him up and giving him his respect.

SPEAKER_01

And listen, that ain't gonna be the last time I mention the big man, uh, Clarence. And it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_00

So track four is working on the highway. I'll let you kick things off here. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It's fine. Tier three for me. I think this is one of the weaker ones on the album. A little too repetitive, and I know that might be hypocritical after I just talked about the Shalal Laws in Darlington County. Don't love, I don't know. I just also don't love the the piano. I I just feel like it's the same thing, the whole song. So it's fine, it's not a cut, but it's one of the weaker ones here.

SPEAKER_00

I'm with you, and unfortunately, I'm going to sacrifice this one. I'm gonna cut it. Okay. I I don't know necessarily, I guess I'm grading it on a pretty strict scale to actually cut a song. We only have 12, so I don't technically think I would cut this song from the album if I was producing it. But in terms of me going back and listening to it, I'll never want to listen to this song all the way through, would be how I put it. So I'm I'm fine cutting it. Like you said, it just kind of stays in the same ballpark the whole time. There's no real dynamics to it. It is repetitive, and for me, it's uh kind of just a filler in between some really good stuff. So I will be getting rid of working on the highway, but I don't necessarily think it's an awful song, just one I could do without.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, this one was also they were thinking about putting this on Nebraska, and they didn't. Um, which also would be another s which is also the deal with another song we're gonna talk about soon. Um, but yeah, it's a little too repetitive. Don't love the piano. I I could see I I flirted with cutting it, but I'm like, you know what, it's it's okay. It's fine. I'll I'll keep it around.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I wouldn't, I'm not offended that you didn't cut it, and I could be talked into keeping it, but it's just one of those that whatever I could do without. Track five, Downbound Train. I'm a really, really big fan of this one. I was curious about this. So yeah, tell me your thoughts on down uh downbound train. This song, I don't know if this is one of the ones that they thought about putting on Nebraska or not, but this song reminds me of a Nebraska song.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it is. They were this was the other song that they were thinking about, or it was left over from Nebraska and they put it on here.

SPEAKER_00

And that makes sense why I like it so much. It it fits right into I love Nebraska. It's probably my favorite Springsteen record. And this one I think would have a seat at that table. I think it definitely deserves a seat at this table. It's different than the rest of this album for me. It's kind of standsalone, is it's definitely not a pop song. It has that kind of grungy Nebraska feel to it, where it's just I I hate to use Americana, but it's he really invented a kind of a genre of music for this. And and I think this is a really good representation of not only Nebraska, but I think it's good that he brought that music style over to this album as well, which obviously was much more commercially successful. It falls just short of tier one for me, but it's a clear tier two.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I have this tier three. I have it, it's just it's a good song. That's it. However, um I just don't want to I don't want to give it the nod because I just didn't connect to it as as well. I will say this great great songwriting. It's it's a very it's a more depressing song. Again, it makes sense that. This was on the cutting room floor from Nebraska, because it sounds like it belongs in on Nebraska. But this is a a good song. Again, I I don't connect to it as much, but again, good song, and obviously could tell that it's it's from, you know, it's or was written at least uh during the Nebraska days.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely makes sense. I'm glad that you had the knowledge to actually confirm that because that was in my notes. Reminds me more of a Nebraska song, and I like the sound of it. So we're on the same page there. And I guess Bruce was on the same page as me as well. I appreciate that, Bruce. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So appreciate you, boss, if you're listening. Yeah. I would love for that to be the case.

SPEAKER_01

Track six is all right. I'm on fire. We gotta talk about we have to talk about the elephant in the room with this song. It's a big, big, big elephant. It's a big elephant that we gotta talk about. Okay, I couldn't I couldn't listener. I I couldn't wait to talk about this because even though I like Springsteen, I've been making jokes about this song for years. Years like since like late high school, I've been making s jokes about this song, and then I'm scrolling through the internet one day, and like I it's the comedian Pete Holmes is the comedian, has like a whole bit on how this is one it's a creepy song if you're just looking at it, like literally, because Sean lyrics here uh about hey little girl, is your daddy home? Automatically puts you in, is he talking about an actual little girl? When in reality he's talking about a married woman, someone who has a fiance, and he's just you know more endearing, and then is your daddy home? Meaning is your husband home again, but on the surface, this is this is creepy.

SPEAKER_02

You owe me.

SPEAKER_00

I know. Oh my god, and then Dickie follows it up with I got a bad desire. I got a bad desire. Tell me now, baby, is he good to you? Can he do to you the things that I do? I can take you higher. Bruce, Bruce. Madness bad, it's bad. With that being said, tier one for me. Tier one for me. It's a clear tier one. I I love this song. Might be it's one of my favorites on the record. So with that being said, yeah, the message ring, we we do need to absolutely clear the air there. Bruce, I'd love it. I'd love an interview. Maybe you've put out a few, but but I I think without any without any sort of decision making for me, clear tier one.

SPEAKER_01

So I have it in great. It was almost tier one. It was almost tier one, but again, I've been making jokes about this song for so long that I just I can't separate it. But oh, it's so good. And like this is like late night driving. When this song comes on, it's just like I don't know. Just be careful not to predict yourself because people would ask where are you heading, you know. That man's listening to I'm on fire fairly loud for 2 a.m. and driving in the middle of nowhere. He might have a he might have a bad desire.

SPEAKER_00

It's not a song we're gonna put on in front of others often, you know. You can't really introduce this one to people, but god damn, it isn't a good song.

SPEAKER_01

So good. It's so good. So good, it's so good, but it's it's about an unmarried or sorry, it's about a married woman.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, not literal. It's about a married woman in this case and not a little girl, as he explicitly states.

SPEAKER_01

So I think because how hang on, how old is I have to say, how old is Springsteen in 94? How old is he had to be he's gotta be 30s? He has to be. He's gotta be how old, Bruce 30, he was 34. Yeah, tough. He was my age. That's a bad that's a tough look, Bruce. It's not great, Brucey.

SPEAKER_00

Not great, Brucey. And if he just changed that that word, that little word to hey now something girl or woman. Yes, about a woman, Bruce. Can we interested in one of those? Woman of all that. Hey, little hey, little woman.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, little woman is your daddy home. And uh daddy's the song is still bad, it still fits.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, because then you at least know that when he says woman, the daddy is just the term of which he refers to her husband, which is creepy enough, but when you say little girl plus daddy, it it means a whole different picture. And yeah, it's bad.

SPEAKER_01

It's bad, but I would say, hey little girl, hey little girl, is your husband home?

SPEAKER_00

How about that? How about that, Jake?

SPEAKER_01

That works too.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know what the guys were doing. Like, it's one of those situations where how did this get out? Where you see like a crisis management team saying, How did we let this happen? How did someone else not stop him and say, Bruce?

SPEAKER_01

I know you're the guy making the money. We know this. But like, can we maybe change some of the lyrics? Or the song title where it says you're on fire who burning with passion. Hang on, I want to say who wrote I'm on yep, just Springsteen. Yep, he's the only credit. There wasn't even a rough draft.

SPEAKER_00

That was right to that was straight to the straight to the album.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, I got this song. And then like I could see like little Steven be like, Is someone gonna tell this guy? Like how weird this is? Clarence Clarence is like, let him cook, yep, let him go. Let him go, let him go. We get into a fight, I'll be playing saxophone at the local bar. No one tell them. Keep him happy, don't kill the golden goose.

SPEAKER_00

I'm glad we had the conversation. I knew we were going to, I thought it, I thought we handled it pretty well.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, no, I thought we were very mature, we're very mature about this.

SPEAKER_00

That wraps up side one of the record. So track seven takes us to side two, and that is No Surrender. And I'm a big fan of this one as well. I'll let you kick things off in terms of how we're gonna talk about it, but I like No Surrender a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Might be one of the most underrated songs on the album for me. I love this song, it's uplifting. Never, you know, it's that never give up on your dreams, youthful rebellion stuff. It's it's tier two for me. It's great, not elite status, but it is a great, great song, one of the most underrated on the album for me.

SPEAKER_00

I'm almost gonna co-sign exactly what you said. I think it's one of the most underrated. I think it's really strong. It's tier two for me. It's just a song about how the music matters, it seems like. It seems no surrender kind of serves as a promise to stay true to yourselves. And the line that we talked about earlier, Jake, the line that says we learn more from a three-minute record baby than we ever learned in school. Is that a shot at little Stevie?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00

Is that a little is that a little dig at Stevie going back to school? You know? Wow. That just came when you mentioned that earlier. I was like, well, maybe you know what? That lyric that I had typed out is something I really enjoy from the uh song. I wonder if that's a little shot across Stevie's brow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I don't know because the thing is, I'm gonna bring up I thought it was a different song we were gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, I didn't think maybe it's not, but it's just something that clicked for me.

SPEAKER_01

I love I love the connection there. Yeah, I absolutely love the connection there, but yeah, because if little if Steven Van Zant is like all up in politics and all up on, you know, just reading and school and all that stuff, I like, you know, Bruce could do that. But no, I yeah, I love this song and I love the connection you just made there.

SPEAKER_00

I love the song too. I'm I'm glad we both had it in tier two. I thought it, I thought it would be a strong one for you as well. It's just a it it does it does a good job representing what the album's about too, I think. If you were to just pick a few from this record to say, hey, this is what Born of the USA is, no surrender does a good job of summing that up too. No, absolutely. Track eight is Bobby Jean Jake, and lots of similarities here in how this one sounds, how no surrender sounds, and to glory days for me. It even has some of the same introduction vibes as dancing in the dark. I feel like a lot of the songs in the back half of this album sound together, which isn't a bad thing. I think they're all really good songs, but I will say I probably prefer this one less to some of those ones I just mentioned.

SPEAKER_01

Oh I think this is the most I said one of the most underrated for um No Surrender. I think this is the most underrated song on the album. I love this song, I love it. Uh again, it it's I I know it's about a lost friendship. It's about, you know, and I know in the song uh the friendship that is lost is is with a woman, maybe a you know, a love that could have been type of stuff. But the conspiracy is that this song, this was the last song written for the album, by the way. And it was right after Steven Van Zant left. And you talk about lost friendship, a song about lost friendships. A lot of people connect dots of saying, you know, little Steven leaving could have been an inspiration for Bruce, and just you know, instead of talking about, you know, two guys losing a friendship, he talks about another uh a woman, a long friendship with a woman. Sean, this is gonna be a hot take, very hot take. I am putting this in the elite, I'm putting this in tier one for me. The the message, the lyrics, the vibe, musicianship, again, another great saxophone solo in the middle of this song. Or sorry, to close it out. I love this song, and I know this is probably gonna be my hottest take. I'm putting this in the tier one. I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I am glad you brought up Clarence because I was going to if you didn't. The sax solo is it's phenomenal. It's really good, really good from him. And that does save the song a bit for me. I will say I didn't know about what the song was really talking about when I was listening to it. So that's kind of on me, and maybe I will have a greater appreciation for it moving forward. Now that you kind of educated me as to what it's speaking about, I had it in tier three. It was kind of a tier two and a half for me, and I didn't know which way to go. But I'll just for the sake of being a bit different, and it's probably if I had to lean one direction, I would say tier three for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No, and listen, I I could see that for some reason. This is just one when I bought the vinyl, I listened to the whole thing from start to finish, and this was a song that was playing. I was like, whoa, yeah, what is this song? I've never like I don't know if I've ever heard this song before. So I don't know. I immediately had a connection to it, and again, the the the message of lost friendships, but the musicianship is great. Um, yeah, I I'm putting it in elite tier. I know that's gonna be my hot take for the day, but I I'm gonna go to bat for Bobby Jean.

SPEAKER_00

There, hey, there's no wrong answers here. So I like that, and I'm gonna go back and give it a good listen, knowing what it's about now, and and maybe it moves up a tier for me. It has room to grow, room for improvement. So we'll see. Track nine is I'm going down, and I guess I'll kick things off because I've been tossing it to you. I'm gonna give a hot take. It might be a hot take, it might not be. This is a no thank you for me. It's just a wow, it's just you're cut the last minute and a half. Just I'm it they can't stop saying the word down, and it it gives me the sha la laws. And I'm yeah, it's the shot. And I'm out. So it is a cut for me. I don't think it's bad, but it's just something I'm never ever gonna choose or seek out on my own. So if that's the case, what's the point of keeping it around?

SPEAKER_01

So this was my like two and a half. Okay, like I was going back and forth at tier three, tier two. I did last night, I did go to tier two. Oh, okay. I know it's I know it's repetitive. I admit multiple times saying down the saxophone and keyboards lifted it for me. And because that musicianship was so good, I think it pulls the entire team to get thing together. Listen, the keyboard is faint, like you can't like hear it, hear it, but like it's like you know it's there, and I think it's a perfect mixture. That's what puts in the tier three. I was thinking about putting this in two, but I did give it, I round it up. Let's just say that for I'm going down. But I totally see the repetitiveness. And even sometimes when I'm playing it, if like there's someone else in the car who's never heard it, I I get that feeling that you get that little where this is, you know, like I don't know if this person's digging this. But then if I'm by myself and it comes on, I'm singing, I'm singing every down. I'm singing every time every down.

SPEAKER_00

You know, that's a good way to frame it, actually. Yeah, it's one of those where I just kind of see myself wishing it over, and you should never be doing that with it with the song you love. So so for me, that's why I was like, I'll just get rid of it. That is okay. I might I'm not spoiling anything, I don't think. That's my last cut. I've made two cuts. Ah that's it. There, there's no more coming. The 10th track is far from a cut. It's oh my god, it's an undeniable, classic, glory days. I mean, just immediately you can identify this one instantly. That opening, that opening is just so good. Jake, I would be shocked if we weren't in lock in tier one here. But I want to I want to hear your thoughts on the on the two.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this is iconic, elite. It's one of the ultimate bar songs, talking about the old times, talking about the old times, uh, literally in the song. That organ, I think it's an organ, is it it's as soon as you hear it, you know it's from. You hear something like it in the wild, you think of glory days. Um and of course, the the story uh based on a true story with an encounter Bruce Springsteen had with a um a childhood baseball uh teammate, uh Joe DePew. When Joe DePew passes away, I think it was like two years ago, Bruce basically put like he's the guy, like he's the baseball player that I was talking about in the song. He posts like a tribute to him. So, like, this is based on a real story. Like he was walking in, I was walking out, and then we went back in together, type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00

That's neat.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's the ultimate, what about you know, where have all the good times gone type of song.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, it's the Andy Menard, you know, you wish you're in the good old days before you know. It's the good old days, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's thinking about the good old days type of song. Again, bars song. It it it's it's it's elite. It it's great. It's I I I want to say I maybe have knew this song before I knew Springsteen. Yeah. Like I know like Born in the USA is like, and I another song's like that uh coming up very, very shortly. But like this is one of those where like you know this song before you know, like before you know the artist. That's how you hear it. A hundred percent like iconic, iconic screaming from the rooftops.

SPEAKER_00

I couldn't agree more. And he he says he could throw that speedball by you, boy. And I love that line. Just you know, he just he just pump a fastball by you.

SPEAKER_01

Can I say something? That line does bother me. Really? You don't like speedball?

SPEAKER_00

Fast, just say call it a fastball, Bruce. I kind of like how he switched it up. It's honestly a little bit, it's like he's trying to be different. Maybe he's not gonna be doing the ball player himself. I don't know. He called it a speedball.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the speedball. Like that is a line, that is a line that bothers me. But in an other lot in an otherwise perfect song, yeah, I wish we could change. So again, Sean, you and I are critiquing one of the greatest songwriters of all time. Well, with I'm on fire, with now I'm saying more, we should change the term to fastball. But anyway, just yeah, elite, elite song. I think we would both agree.

SPEAKER_00

There's some more, there's a more urgent matter up above in the album that we need to attend to before we work on tweaking speed and fast. But I do yeah, I do see where you're coming from there. Track 11, Jake. This one is uh this is my one one. This is my best song in the album. It's my favorite song, it's one of my favorite songs ever. Dancing in the dark. Of course, everybody knows it. It's the ultimate pop rock song for me. It's it's right up there. We talked about the Fleetwood Mac Rumors album and how that's kind of a quintessential pop rock sound, pop rock album. This one is right up there for me in terms of that genre.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's again, it's another one of those songs that I feel like you know it when you're young hearing it and don't even know who Bruce Springsteen is, but you know this song. Sean, I like to judge songs, songs on where can you play them? Especially for like a mainstream artist like Bruce Springsteen. Where can I play this song? You can play this song anywhere. It goes good in the car, it's at a cookout, it's at an event. I mean, almost virtually any event you could play this, and it would be okay. And uh the keyboard work, very simple stuff, but the the keyboards by Roy Bitten, the the professor, they call him the professor, Roy Bitten. I mean, excellent job. Again, it's like the organs in glory days. Like you hear um you hear these keyboards, and you you immediately know the song. Immediately know the song. This is elite. It's yeah, it's my favorite song in the album. And here's the thing, Sean. It's a song that I've heard a thousand times, and I don't think I skip it when it comes to it. Never like Born in the USA. Maybe sometimes you're like, oh, I heard that this morning. Not dancing in the dark, never. I don't think I will ever get old. I mean, God, I'm in my mid-30s now. I've never gotten sick of dancing in the dark ever, and I don't think I ever will.

SPEAKER_00

A hundred percent. That's so well said because I'm in the same boat. And I it's not that taking anything away from Born in the USA, but I could see myself skipping that one because of just how many times I've heard it. I'll never skip this one. Jake, you mentioned you I wasn't gonna tell this story, but you mentioned you you brought up a point that I think I have to now. You said you could listen to this song anywhere and it wouldn't feel out of place. I couldn't agree more. So, a quick story. I I'm over in London visiting one of my buddies who is staying over there for a couple months. Mark Monero, I'll shout him out. He's he's been on here before. So I'm visiting him. We're out at the bar, the brown cow in Fulham, London, having a good time. We're drinking Guinness. We've been drinking for a few hours. We see that they're bringing in a live artist. We don't know anything about the guy. His name's Lukey Friend. I'll never forget this artist. He he's setting up shop. We're just eyeballing him and we're shooting the shit. We're saying, I wonder what song he's gonna play first. We don't know if he's a country singer, we don't know if he's a jazz musician. We don't have a clue of what kind of music he's gonna play. And for Mark said, he Mark gave a guess, maybe it was Ed Sheeran or something of the sort. We're in London after all. And I said, for some reason, I think he's gonna play Dancing in the Dark by Bruce Springsteen. I have no idea what came over me. It was just a feeling I had. And about 15 minutes later, he starts just playing the piano or playing the guitar a little bit, and I hear the first few notes, and I'm looking at Mark like eyes wide, I'm like, oh my god, wait, this sounds like Dan's gonna. And then immediately he goes into it, and I'm like, holy shit. It was maybe the coolest moment of life, which says something about just how uncool my life is. But Jake, it's a moment I'll never forget, and it's thanks to this song.

SPEAKER_01

Whenever you can make that guess, oh, that's a great feeling. That's an underrated feeling to have when you're like, I think they're gonna play that, and it happens. Oh, that's a great, great, great feeling. But yeah, you can hear this anywhere. It's great. And like I like to judge songs based off that. Of how good is it based off of can it be played? Is it good and can it be played in a multitude of settings? And I think dancing in the dark is that. Um by the way, Sean, we we also have to we have to talk about the music video, right? Because Sean, what famous actress makes her debut in this music video? Oh, I don't know. I don't know that I know. You don't know? Oh yeah! Oh, I love it. Okay, so there this music video, there's a famous actress who makes her debut. It's like one of those where the band's playing, and then Bruce Springsteen goes in the audience and says, you, and he gets a woman to come up on stage. Okay, are you are you familiar with the video at least?

SPEAKER_00

No, I I've seen the video, but it was years ago, and it was like when I watched music videos, it was probably when I was younger, so I don't think I've ever made a connection to a famous actress. Uh Courtney Cox. Really?

SPEAKER_01

Courtney Cox is the woman in the dancing in the dark video who comes up on stage and dances with Bruce.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's the expert touch there, Jake. That's great job by you. I didn't know, I would never would have known that. Great piece of music trivia, by the way. That is really good. That's great to know. I think I would have seen this music video before I knew who Courtney Cox was, to be honest. That's probably the time. Yeah, that's because when I would watch music videos coming home from school when I was younger, I didn't know what Friends was really until high school end of high school college. So I think that's probably when it became familiar with her. But that's a great piece of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

And I think her hair was short in the music video. Okay. So like it was a little bit shorter. So like I think that also kind of plays the fact. Like, even if you knew what Friends was at a young age, it would be hard. Yeah. Because, like, you know, Monica has long hair. Yeah. As a for a child, you know. But yeah, I think uh, but yeah, it's I mean, great song. It's in that tier one, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

My favorite. I'm glad we're in agreement there. I would be shocked if we weren't. So we'll round out the album now with track 12. The final track is my hometown. And I don't think I've said the word yet on this podcast, but this album features one instrument very heavily, and it's the synthesizer. And the beginning of this song is what I like to call Synth City USA. Oh yes. This is uh it turns into a slower, more of a ballad than we hear. And I think it deserves a seat at the table. It's a sweet song about the struggles of the working class people in his hometown. So some some good in it. I'm not sure how re-listenable it is for me personally, but I do think it deserves a seat. I'm gonna give it a tier two, actually, just because I think it does a good job of ending the album on a really I guess a note that indicates what the whole piece of work is about.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm going tier three, which I think is a very hot take, but the reason why is listen uh re-listenability. This is a song you hear once, you say very meaningful lyrics, you know, like you said about small town America, struggles in small town America that I think really hit home where it doesn't like fantasize the small town like I think some other genres of music do, but it talks about like the everyday struggles of it. So like I I like it. And listen, this song was I think number six on the hot 100 at one time, which I thought was wild. I I do think it's one of the weaker songs again. I understand the importance of it, I understand why it's good, it's just it's not something that I really love or would like to listen to. Listen, I love some depressing songs, I love some dark songs. We talked about I'm on fire. This one, though, does not hit the re-listenability for me. And also, Sean, this one hit one number one on the adult contemporary charts. I'm not quite sure the difference between the charts or whatever, but this did get to number one, it did peak at one. But I just I think it's I really think it's one of the weaker songs on the album just on re-listenability. However, I'm sticking with fine, I think it's fine, good message. It's just it's not something that I really like listening to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, this was a tier two and a half for me. I alluded to that before, and I I went with the two this time because I went with the three last time, so just kind of balancing things out, but I do completely agree. It's tough to sit through this one, just no context. Omega put on a song. I don't think my hometown's one that you're searching for. So I do think it does a good job telling the story of the album, wrapping the album up, but like you said, you're not ever excited to re-listen to it. Jake, we've gone track by track. I really enjoyed doing that with you. We have just a couple final things left. We have to give our overall thoughts, a quick summary of why this album matters to us, what we think of it, and then I hope you have your score prepared. And it's like figure skating, Jake. If if you hand out a hundred, there that means nothing could ever be better. So just keep that in mind for future appearances. You need to have a nice index for yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So here's the deal. I I think this is Bruce's best album, top to bottom. I think it's the best produced. I think, yes, it is a little bit more poppy, but I think I think that's what makes it great. Again, this is Americana on on a record. This is a record that is as America as it gets. Um again, I'm talking about my least favorite song was number six on the Billboard Hot 100 at one time. Like, talk about bangers on this album. So again, my hometown and working on the highway are the two low points for me. However, glory days, dancing, dancing in the dark. For me, Bobby Gene, born in the USA. You have four elite, you have three iconic songs. I'll give you like that. Like you have three iconic songs on one album, and then the majority else are good to great songs. I mean, come on. This, I think, so I went with I went with a 95 out of a hundred. Ooh, baby, we like that. I know. That's it's it's hot again. You you can't it it's not perf it's not perfect. Again, I I had my low lights. Working on the highway, if working on the highway was on Nebraska, I think this would have bumped up a little bit for me. Like maybe to a 96, 97, I don't know. But again, my hometown is the one that I probably like the least, and lyrically, it's beautiful, it's great. It's just not mine. So, but yeah, 95 out of 100, I think is appropriate. It's one of the best albums of all time. Uh again, I I didn't look at other albums, but it's I think it's top five in the 80s. It has to be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 95 out of 100. I think that's a completely fair score. I was expecting you, I would I would have been shocked if you weren't in the 90s, to be honest. I'm glad you brought this one to the table to me for for several reasons. I think it's apropos of the time here in the United States. We've got, like we said, the 4th of July, we've got the World Cup. There's a lot of national pride going on, so there's that. I also think, Jake, this album, for me, it was one of the first ones I listened to where we mentioned a couple songs where you could kind of dance to them. And yeah, I think it's like a it's it's a dance that I like. It's like a you're not boogieing on the floor, but you're dancing in your seat, you're dancing in your area. You know what I mean? You're bobbing your head, you're tapping your toes. It's that sort of vibe throughout the whole thing. It's a great pop rock album. It's one of the best of all time. I completely agree with you there. For me, I I I'm also glad you had me revisit it because songs like Cover Me and No Surrender have made their way back into my rotation, which were songs I've heard before but never really appreciated, I guess. So that's good. I'm glad about that. My score, I've been I've been going back and forth between two scores. I'm gonna give it a 90 out of 100. A 90. Oh, okay. All right, yes. And this is probably just a taste thing for me, where I think I gave Fleetwood Mac rumors a 98 out of 100. And I think the only difference for me is the songs that I had in the second and third tier of that record, I would much prefer to go back and listen to than the songs that I had in the third tier, I would say, of this record. So I guess it's just a taste thing. And I think maybe why is because the fact that Fleetwood Mac is blessed with three vocalists that can all sing the phone book. I think that really helps in terms of re-listenability to the whole album. When I think of a no-skips album that stays fresh and innovative, that is the perfect example for me. Whereas in this album, when you make your way through it, I'm not so sure you're you're dying to listen to it all the way through again immediately. You know what I mean? There's some songs that sound a little bit redundant, there's some songs that are similar, and I'm just like, you know, I've heard it, it's good. I think what does a great job on this album is like you said, the iconic songs. And I would throw I'm on fire into that camp as well for me. But those four at the top of this album are just so they're such standout performers that I think I'd be crazy not to give it anything over anything in the low 80s would have been completely unacceptable. I'm I'm I was between a 90 and 91 the whole time, and I could have talked myself into a 92. I ended up on a 90.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I I guess that would be a knock to some people because Bruce has such a distinguished voice that that people can get sick of because you know he does that that growl. You know what I'm talking about, where he's like, Yeah, he's like singing from his, you know, sing really singing from like his, you know, I don't want to say soul, but just that you know, it's like he's putting it all in there. And I feel like some people might you know get tired of it where, like you said, with rumors, and you know, you have three different vocalists who are all fantastic. So you get three it sounds like almost three different bands.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. And that I think is such an added bonus for them that other bands don't have. And when you do have that, it just makes your the ability to go back to them so much easier for me. So it is listen here. We're talking about all-time albums. A 90 out of 100 is a damn good score. It's one of the better albums ever. So yeah, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's one of the greatest albums. It this is one of the when I bought it on vinyl, like I knew the hits, I knew, you know, probably a little bit more than the hits. And then I listened to the whole way through. I'm like, this album is again Darlington County, re cover me, no surrender, Bobby Gene. It's like, wow, there, it's more than just the heavy hitters. Yeah, like every song on this album is is is at least good for me. It's at least a good, like where I'm like, it's a solid song. You know, working on the highway is the one that I'm taking like I could really I could probably cut, but even my hometown, I'm like, I have an appreciation for the song, even though that I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00

There you go. So I I think Jake, you did a great job breaking the album down. I'm thrilled you made your record club debut. I'm sure you'll be on for many more of these. Jake, it was a pleasure diving deep into this album with you. Anything else before we go? Nah, Sean, I love the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, not just on you know, tortured fans, but you know, your coverage of the World Cup, which is not my you know, uh cup of tea. But it's uh, you know, very well done. I'm I'm excited to be on more of your stuff. And dude, keep up the good work. Love what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you. Everybody who is a college football fan that's listening to this, Jake has a podcast called The Get Back Coach, go follow him at CJ. Also, of course, when college football gets back in season, Jake will be making more appearances on the main feed as well. So a lot to look forward to on the horizons. Enjoy the 4th of July, enjoy summer. I think this album does a good job of getting you in the mood to do just that. Listeners, thank you all for tuning in, and until next time, take care of the city.