Breaking Down the MP Materials Deal with Peter O'Rourke

Our host, Major General (Ret.) Alberto “Al” Rosende, President & CEO of M2i Global, is joined by Peter O’Rourke, Senior Advisor to M2i Global. Together, they explore the vulnerabilities in the U.S. critical minerals sector, the recent Department of Defense–MP Materials agreement, and how “patient aggression” and a whole-of-government approach are key to reversing China’s dominance and rebuilding domestic capabilities.

Our Host: Al Rosende is an accomplished senior executive and retired U.S. Army Major General whose career has spanned corporate, military, non-profit, and entrepreneurial leadership. His experience positions him uniquely to guide these conversations at the intersection of national security and economic resilience.

Our Guest: Peter O’Rourke brings decades of experience across logistics, manufacturing, aerospace, and the critical minerals industries. He has served as U.S. President of Western Magnesium Corporation, Vice President of Blackland Aerospace, and currently leads TCI Partners LLC and the National Association for Veterans Rights.

Relevant Links & Research: https://maipdf.com/file/d68c776383f98f@pdf

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in The Minerals and Metals Initiative podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests. They are provided for discussion and informational purposes only and do not represent the official policy, position, or recommendations of M2i Global, Inc. Any statements made should be understood as personal opinions, not factual claims, and should not be relied upon as investment, legal, or professional advice. While efforts are made to ensure accuracy, M2i Global makes no guarantees regarding completeness or reliability of the content.

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Transcript

Al Rosende: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome. I'm Alberto Rosende, your host, and CEO of M2i Global, a critical mineral supply chain company. And this is the Minerals Metals Initiative, a podcast exploring the transformation of the critical minerals supply chain as we race for global resilience from mineral extraction and refinement to policy and innovation.

Join us each episode as we examine a different aspect. Of the urgent push to modernize, diversify, and de-risk the world's critical mineral supply chain.

Joining us today for our very first episode is Peter O'Rourke. After serving honorably in the United States Navy and Air Force, Peter has been active in the healthcare, aerospace, and critical minerals industry. He currently serves as a senior advisor to M2i global. Peter, thanks for being here today.

Peter O'Rourke: Thanks, Alex. It's great to be with you and, uh, excited about this new podcast. It's obviously timely, uh, obviously needed, and, uh, it, uh, I think it's gonna really, [00:01:00] uh, magnify and amplify the conversations need to be had around this. Uh. Critical area. 

Al Rosende: Peter, before we get started, why don't you give us a brief summary of your background and, uh, everything that you've been doing, uh, since you left the service?

I, 

Peter O'Rourke: I, I've had an interesting route getting to critical minerals. Um, as you said, I, I served both in the United States Navy and the United States Air Force. Uh, but in the Air Force I had the chance to work at the Air Force Material Command and there, you know, supporting all of our weapon systems, uh, that the Air Force supports.

You know, we, we were starting to look at and starting to see some of the, the fissures of. The global supply chain around these critical minerals and just our access to it. And there was some folks early on that were, you know, really starting to, you know, come out and say, look, we need to start paying attention to this.

But, you know, as you and I both know, I mean, this is now an issue that, uh, has been building, uh, but now has really cracked open as a, as a significant issue for the United States to address. Our allies, uh, nato and, uh, really the globe, uh, as we look at, uh, the, the critical shortages that not only we face, [00:02:00] but uh, the rest of our partners.

So, um, also had experience directly with, uh, a, uh, company bringing magnesium processing back to the US and sure, we'll talk about that more, you know, later in our podcast. But, uh, but it really, you know, really struck me, you know, on the ground seeing what some of these challenges really are and you know, what we're gonna have to do to overcome them both from a supply side and a demand side.

Uh, for these critical minerals. And, you know, we've seen some great examples of that here recently too, of, of some solutions, uh, to those, to those challenges. So great to be here. 

Al Rosende: No, thanks a lot, uh, Peter and I appreciate, uh, everything that you've talked about so far. You know, you, you, you still left a, a lot of stuff off the table that, that you've been involved in, that gives you a really broad view of critical minerals and how they impact us Now.

Critical minerals has been on the front page for a long, long time now. I mean, uh, particularly, uh, in, in the last administration starting back to really. The first Trump administration, it really made the front page, but I know it goes beyond that. As you mentioned, it goes back to even Obama. Um, uh, and it really came to [00:03:00] forefront as well, not only, uh, because of China's over dominance in this area, but also because of the depletion of several of our arsenals, if you will, in supporting Ukraine and some of the other things that, that we've been doing.

So when, when we go and look at today's paper. Uh, we know that, uh, the DOD uh, and, and MP materials have, have, uh, shaken hand on a, on a great deal. And maybe you can bring that to the forefront at this point and talk about what the deal is and then really what the infrastructure behind the deal, what allowed that deal to take place.

I, I'm gonna give you the mic a little bit to kind of put, put some, uh, put a framework around, uh, around the MP material DOD deal. 

Peter O'Rourke: Yeah, no, I mean, I, I think everybody in this industry is really excited about this because it really does exemplify, you know, really the result that we're all looking for when it comes to government action.

Um, both from the executive, uh, and, you know, a little bit of the legislative side as well with some appropriations and, and, [00:04:00] uh. Uh, uh, author authorizing language that they've been able to put in place. But really, you know, I, I kind of put this in the perspective of patient aggression. Um, you know, you, you have to be patient in this space because, you know, as we know, whether you're a junior miner or you know, developing a new processing technology, those things take time.

Uh, there's a lot of long lead time items, whether it's just development of the tech, whether it's, uh, digging holes in the ground, finding assets. Across, uh, friendly, uh, geographies and then also dealing with all the politics involved with, with that. Um, this really is where it all kind of comes together. I mean, they, they're meeting a.

A very specific need when it comes to rare earth magnets. And that's, that's what this deal is all about. And it's been one of the very critical, uh, items that we've, you know, been talking about along with, you know, other components for, uh, technology. It goes into airplanes, tanks, and, and pretty much any kind of technology we use from a defense perspective.

From linking GPS, uh. Bombs, bullets. I mean, it covers pretty much everything. I think folks have [00:05:00] really started to understand where all these items go into. Uh, I can tell you from a, from an executive perspective, from an administration side, what the Trump administration's been been doing is, you know, really working out.

Um, what's the best opportunity for them to, to make a, a, a statement about their commitment to critical minerals, the development of, uh, the processing side, but also, uh, leading the way for others to think creatively. Um, really to approach the government on, you know, ideas that they have and, and projects that they wanna work on to really double back and, and really make sure that they've got a.

Uh, a solid proposal because, uh, you get one shot at the, at the US Federal Government on these kind of things. So I think it's really helped everybody understand and clarify what, what you need to do to put together a, you know, really a multi-billion dollar deal. And it, and it really happened the way. You know, I think you, we would expect, you know, the, the, the, you work with the government, they make a commitment to [00:06:00] you, whether this is through Defense Production Act titles, you know, three, which is what part of this deal was, uh, the loan guarantees they're gonna get, uh, uh, as part of this.

And then being able to turn right around and, and I'm sure simultaneously they were working in parallel to with the, the Apple deal. But, you know, that's how those things work. I mean, you're not gonna get. The consumer of your product really interested in these things, unless you really have a solid plan and you're talking to the right folks and, um, you know, they will reap the benefit of being the first back into this market because this really is the, the seminal moment when it comes to showing, you know, what's the path forward for, uh.

Critical minerals, but also showing what the real impact is by these, uh, by producing these rare earth magnets. 

Al Rosende: I think that I'd like to take a moment. I know that I wanna park something that I want to get back to, which is the Defense Production Act. Title iii, which really goes back to 1950, was implemented to support the war effort in Korea Really?

Coming out of the demobilization [00:07:00] and the refocus of US industry back to consumer goods and, and the civilian environment because it had been totally mobilized to support World War ii. So in that interim time, from 45 to 50, they realized, uh, the DOD needed to be supported and they needed to be supported by being able to have authorities in law that allowed them to reach out and continue that logistical supply chain.

We can come back to that in a minute. But I'd like to go back and play a little bit on, uh, your role in the magnesium, uh, processing that you were trying to bring to the US and kind of juxtapose what you were trying to do and why you were trying to bring the processing back, but also what prevented you from actually being successful because of the actions that China had taken in the industry.

Peter O'Rourke: Yeah, I mean, it, it's a great case study because it's not, um, you know, I think it's applicable to, to just about any. Uh, critical metal, critical mineral that, that we're, you know, dealing with as, uh, [00:08:00] as part of our effort to, to domesticate, uh, really the, the ability to sustain ourselves when it comes to having, um, access to these things.

You know, most of the challenges that we found, I mean, obviously we were, we were developing a new technology. Um. It was, uh, not necessarily new in concept. The idea of it had been around, but we were really trying to push it across the finish line, uh, make it to where it was, uh, viable for, for manufacturing and production and setting up facilities here in the US We were a hundred percent focused on bringing that to United States.

Um, and um, really the challenges that we faced were. Not on the supply side. I mean, it was really more around consumption. Uh, if you're refining 99 point, you know, 7 99 0.9% pure magnesium, who's going to buy it from you and use it and produce parts with it? Me personally, that's where I ran into, I won't say the roadblocks, but it was kind of like the, uh, uh, force constraints in a sense.

I mean, most of the MA production for magnesium [00:09:00] parts. Of course it's probably, it makes sense. It's happening where most of the magnesium is produced. And so that's all in China. You know, at the time, finding buyers that were going to produce parts or be able to locally consume it was really our bigger challenge.

The capacity's there, uh, the technology's there now. It's really building up the demand side of that. And that's, and I think that's really where. Um, this MP deal, just to go back to this, right, this is, this is where you started, both on both ends. You know, you start on, okay, we need to produce these rare earth minerals or metal minerals and metals for this, and we need to have the utilization, the, the consumption of them.

And, and we did it all in one package. So, you know, we're gonna process the, the rare earth and we're gonna produce the magnets. It's a very straightforward, very, um, very clear, uh, uh, purpose, and that's what they're gonna do. I think going forward, that's a really good lesson for folks. You can't just stay on one side or the other.

You can't just say, oh, I'm gonna develop the production manufacturing capability that's gonna utilize rare earth metals and be [00:10:00] disconnected or, or not have a plan for. Okay, but where is that gonna come from? Right? You gotta link those two things together and I think that's where the administration's gonna start doing, you know, play a bigger role and, and I think this, again, this deal kind of shows that, again, you know.

It's, it's great, great signal for everybody else. 

Al Rosende: Yeah, I think that it, it really does too, is it really brings to light the true power of the Defense Production Act, title III, to really not only look at the supply side, but also look at the demand side, because there's, not only did they utilize. The Defense Production Act, but they also made sure that the policy was in place that looked at the longer term impact because we have all been involved in those short term DPA, if you will, utilized, uh, titles.

But then there's no tail to it or there's no continuity to it. So what this did, and it, it locked in that 10 year guarantee for the floor price of those magnets and a guaranteed acquisition of those magnets. [00:11:00] Even if they wind up being just warehoused and stored. But that will allow the longevity of the investment from the private sector to realize that there is something here, but then coupling it with the Apple deal and bringing that in, and then being able to put in some additional money to look at the other aspect, which is the recycling of those magnets that then now gives it tremendous longevity to the project.

So that vertical integration that MP material has been trying to see. And has been working, right? They built the plant in Fort Worth. They've been going through their pilot phase of making sure they can turn out stuff. But this deal coupled with the Apple deal and the 10 year floor and guaranteed price really is what sealed the deal.

And it's a unique way that the public is looking at how government can actually get involved on, on the US side to then really begin to get after critical mineral sustainable chain, uh, supply chains. Domestically, 

Peter O'Rourke: [00:12:00] this is what a whole of government approach looks like. So now that you've seen the other parts of DOD actually work together to, to come up with a solution like this MP deal that that really does, like you said, it, it, it checks every box that any investor's gonna look at.

This is a truly. Gen, you know, sustained generational project. That's, that's literally establishing a supply chain. Apple came into this deal because MP was seriously in the weeds talking with multiple fun functions of the government. This is my opinion, but I'm sure this is how this worked. And, and they were, you know, they could, they could legitimately go to them and their investors and, you know, you know, I'm sure the, the other markets that they're talking to and say.

This is a real deal and you know, the Trump administration, and I'm sure you know, elements of the Biden administration before that were saying, this is a real deal. We're, we're really behind this. Right. So that, you know, that's, that's what I think what gives, you know, folks in this industry, the confidence.

It definitely gives the financial markets the confidence. That [00:13:00]everybody's serious, we're actually gonna do something. And frankly, we've been calling for this for, for years. Right. I mean, even you and I on a panel last year talked about this is what the government needs to do. Exactly. Not that I'd say they listened to us, but I'd like to think they, they, they heard what we were saying and uh, 

Al Rosende: maybe somebody was listening and they agree, 

Peter O'Rourke: so 

Al Rosende: maybe somebody was listening.

Yeah. But, but I think that the, you know, the, the interesting thing is you said a couple of things there. Uh, you said it's a whole of government approach and we, you know, and I know back to. Our uniform days, we were always talking about whole of government approaches to things. I know when I went to the war college, we were talking about that and, and you know, we had State Department folks at the table and they used to look at us and say, yeah, we, we have to work together to come up with the appropriate solution.

But the other thing is too, that we have to remove those silos because you know when, when you're executing one of those authorities within DPA three, if you don't have the other folks that are really looking at the total policy, that's being applied, but if you don't have that policy arm in there that says, no, no, no.

We're gonna look at all of these authorities, we're gonna combine them together. We're gonna give some longevity so [00:14:00] that there are people that can look out beyond the horizon and make sure that that's there. And that's one of the things that if we look back to China, we know that that's how China works.

China looks very, very long term because they know that that's what it takes. To be able to, to, to do something like that. And so I think that that's applicable in the way that they've done things. I mean, they didn't all of a sudden just take over the critical minerals industry last year. This is something that's been coming for since the eighties really when they first opened up, started to bring in business.

And what's interesting. 

Peter O'Rourke: I mean, we kind of gifted it to 'em, right? Absolutely. I mean, we wanna be fair ly Sure. I mean, we, we, we gave it away as much as they had a plan to take it. I, I think they were very opportunistic and they saw the opportunity that was being presented because they had, I mean, what, what were we doing?

We were looking at, you know, it was, it was all the rave we were looking at globalizing. Trade and globalizing industry and all this stuff. So we were encouraging our, our large manufacturers to go for low cost labor, go for third country processing, all [00:15:00] this kind of stuff. And China's looking back going.

Well, we don't care what we pay our employees. I mean, we, we treat them the way we treat them. So we have a huge opportunity to suck up a lot of this market. Sure. And they just did what was available to 'em? I mean, it 

Al Rosende: was, it was a hand in the glove. Yeah. I agree with, it was a hand in the glove. They started their industry locally.

Right. They started their industry. 'cause that's what they had plenty of minerals. Well, we gotta do something. And then all of a sudden we started looking across the gate because the doors were open and realized that we could save a lot of money. By moving and offshoring, uh, the, the, the midstream processing.

Right. 

Peter O'Rourke: And we just kept, yeah, we kept giving it away. I mean, it was really, um, probably a, a, a tactical superiority on their side and a strategic, uh, uh, error on our side. 

Al Rosende: Yeah. The Silverado, uh, policy accelerator, uh, published a report last October that looked at all of the critical minerals that are on the combined lists of DOE, the Department of Energy, and the Department of the Interior.

And identified 12 of those, [00:16:00] and of those 12, I think it was 10 or 11, are completely foreign dependent on our ability to actually put our hands on the material that we require. So when, when you look at that and you look at what the one big beautiful Bill Act was able to accomplish and funding additional search, what, what do you see over the next 12 to 18 months?

Occurring, uh, with, with utilizing these authorities and these extra funding streams that we've seen, which includes the National Defense Stockpile Trust Fund that was upped by $2 billion when we know that the current stockpile is valued, not even at a billion dollars. And normally their budget request is about 250 million, and they normally get underneath a hundred million on an annual basis, 

Peter O'Rourke: as we know.

That's, that's mostly a transactional, um. Entity capability that we have, a DOD. And, and you're right, it's been under, uh, undervalued in, in both a strategic sense, I think, and, uh, and really kind of [00:17:00] lacking, uh. A a, an updated mandate of what it's, what do we even have it for? So it really, it's become more of a transactional, uh, kind of thing.

I mean, I, no disrespect to the folks there, there's some hardworking folks at DLA doing that thing, but, but at this point, you know, we really have to reassess what do we do with the stockpile? What does it mean? Um, you know, how do we really manage that to, to the most, uh, efficient way and, and effective for our national defenses as we can.

I don't think it's outside the realm of prediction to say that we'll see three to four more of these MP like deals, uh, over the next, uh. 12 to 18 months. Um, part of the reason I say that is because the way, the way congressional appropriations go, you're gonna have to spend the money. So at some point, those deals have to be made, right?

Because, you know, we have put a significant investment toward it. And so the pressure's on for, you know, entities like DPA three, xm, all these folks to, to get money, uh, into the hands of, of, uh, productive projects and, [00:18:00] and folks really, uh, willing to do this. So I think this will also signal foreign investment into the us.

So I think this now opens the door to both the creativity but also the. Um, you know, the, the America's open for business, um, in this space. So I think you'll probably see another deal maybe with, uh, you know, a Japan or an Australia. Um, you know, Australia's got lots of room and, and lots of technology and things like that, but you might see that investment directly into the us.

Hmm. Uh, and I say that mainly because President Trump wants that. So, uh, while, while that may, you know, other people might be able to figure out a deal to do it. In those other countries, uh, I think they know his intent and I think they've gotten that very clear that that's what he wants to see. Sure.

Because we need to fix what's going on here. Um, at least that's our self-interest at this point. Um, and, uh, and, you know, we'll, we'll be back to, to helping everybody else. But right now, building our infrastructure and our capability is really, I think, what's front of mind for him. Uh, so I think you'll see, you know, you already see this from.

Uh, Saudi Arabia and some of [00:19:00] the Gulf States, uh, you know, bringing some of that investment here. You know, some of it's in, you know, sexy things like, uh, data centers and stuff like that. Say that tongue in cheek. But, um, but also, you know, as, as these kind of deals and the opportunities for them come, uh, we'll see that and hopefully, uh, we'll match that up to workforce development.

So we'll start seeing our states, uh, getting, getting more involved. I mean, I know the state of Texas was involved in the, the MP deal. Absolutely. They'll be more involved, I think now that we move forward because now you're gonna have all the local issues that become more precedent, uh, uh, prescient for them with the workforce development, um, sustainment, you know, local, you know, local issues that are, you know, not really what you think of at first 'cause you're looking at the big dollars and the, and the kind of the big muscle movements.

But really to make those, those things projects work. And work well. Um, you really gotta have some, some idea for the fine details at the state level. So I, I think states are gonna really, uh, uh, raise their game, uh, states like Florida, Ohio, the ones that you'd expect, but I think you'll see some [00:20:00] other states, Tennessee, Kentucky, and some others really start to, um, you know, what, you know, elbow their way into the, into the conversation.

Um. Because they've had success in the past and other, you know, in the automotive areas. So none of these states are unfamiliar with how these things work. Right. But we're really kind of going back to the, you know, the thirties, forties, and fifties in the sense of, you know, what the, what were the real. Uh, strengths of some of our states and, and whether it was manufacturing or raw materials, uh, I think that's kind of, you know, it's a little bit of a renaissance, kind of going back to, to where we were.

And, uh, while we don't want to have a, a world War to go fight and, and not be the, the, uh, impetus for us to do it. Um, I think it's, it's kind of based on good things. I mean, people like their, their cell phones and they like, uh, modern technology and they like, uh, you know, asking Siri stuff. So, you know, they're becoming more aware of what it takes to do all that.

Absolutely. And, and to, and to, you know, increase that capability. So, uh, so I think it, I think it'll be exciting for everybody, hopefully for the next [00:21:00]generation of folks too, that they'll, they'll really, uh, you get on board with us 

Al Rosende: and, and I think that that's the interesting thing to look at is at the, at, at the end of the day, we have to stop.

Focusing on the quarterly results cycle and really take a longer view and think of the, the posterity of the nation in the things that we leave behind. Right? You know, we say that, you know, the best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, so you could enjoy their shade, but at this point, the next best time to plant a tree is today.

So someone else will be able to enjoy that shade. So I think that that's really what we're talking about now is really. Kind of reorienting the nation to understand its priorities and focus on those critical aspects that allow our economy to continue to grow into the future, and bringing back some of those capabilities, which we definitely need here in the states to be able to control our destiny and provide for our posterity.

Peter O'Rourke: You know, we, we feel like these things kind of happen in, in generational kind of cycles, but you know, we know that what is it? You know, don't hold me to number, but like [00:22:00] $1.7 trillion of wealth is gonna pass from one generation to the next. And, and when we see these kind of large movements of, of capital and, and things like that, I mean that's, that's what it's gonna get invested in are these kind of bigger kind of things.

'cause we can go back, you know, a hundred years and see where this was happening back then too. So I think there's some natural forces and then there's some. I won't say unnatural, but just some sort of, you know, issues of of the now that are both kind of colluding now to, to give us this opportunity to, to really, you know, drive plant a tree.

To plant a tree and, and know that it's gonna grow for, you know, great grandchildren and, and generations to come. 

Al Rosende: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, again, you know, not to wrap up, but before we go, I'm always interested to find out what's on your desktop right now. What's your to-do list? What are the things you're focusing in on?

Uh, so please, I'm, I'm interested to know. Yeah, so 

Peter O'Rourke: right today. Yeah. So as of talked today, depending on when this podcast comes out, um, it, it's, it's, uh, somewhat related [00:23:00] to critical minerals 'cause it's healthcare technology. Um. You know, it's, it's putting in place the platforms and systems so that, uh, you know, in my case, specifically veterans, but this will expand to, to all the population can have the, the latest and most efficient, uh, access to healthcare and preventative healthcare and predictive healthcare, and things that help you.

Uh, before you get sick so that you can be healthy. So, uh, working on some of that for, uh, for, for veterans. And, um, that's just for today. Um, tomorrow's Friday. So, you know, who knows? 

Al Rosende: Well, well, Peter, before we go, first of all, I want to acknowledge, uh, your great service to the, the country. It's something that you've started off when you were a young man and you've continued while you're still a young man and you've continued to focus in.

On those that, that, that need your support. And I know that you have a very, uh, you know, special place in your heart for veterans. I wanna acknowledge that and, and express my appreciation and gratitude for everything that you do, for all the veterans out there, as well as for everything else that you do for [00:24:00] the nation.

So thanks again for your time today. I continue to look forward to, uh, working with you as, as we work together on a couple of initiatives, and I look forward to the next opportunity. We have a chance to, to break bread or, or have a, an adult beverage together so you take care of yourself, the best of your family.

Congratulations on, on your new grandbaby as well. 

Peter O'Rourke: Thank you so much and hey, congratulations on the podcast and, uh, looking forward to, uh, uh, great things to come. 

Al Rosende: Thank you very much, Peter. 

Peter O'Rourke: Take 

Al Rosende: care. Bye.

And everyone who listened or watched this episode, thank you for joining us. Be sure to follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcast to keep enjoying the minerals and Metals initiative.