Minerals Metals Initiative
‘The Minerals and Metals Initiative’ presented by M2i Global – is a podcast exploring the transformation of the critical minerals supply chain as we race for global resilience — From mineral extraction and refinement to policy and innovation— join us each episode as we examine a different aspect of the urgent push to modernize, diversify, and de-risk the world’s critical minerals supply chain. With each guest, we will break down critical mineral news and current events from all corners of the industry.
Minerals Metals Initiative
The Strategic Case for Battery Recycling with David Batstone
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Show Summary: This podcast examines the transformation of the global critical minerals supply chain at a time when resilience, innovation, and policy leadership are more urgent than ever. From mineral extraction and refinement, to government action and private sector innovation, each episode will bring you closer to the people and ideas shaping the future of resource security.
Episode Summary: In Episode 2 of the Minerals Metals Initiative, host Alberto Rosende speaks with David Batstone about how battery recycling and advanced materials recovery are becoming essential to the future of critical mineral security. The conversation explores how Regenerate Technology Global is using patented hydrometallurgical processes to upcycle lead-acid and lithium-ion batteries, dramatically reducing carbon emissions, waste, and energy consumption while creating higher-performing battery materials. David explains that the future of battery innovation is not just about extraction, but about building circular supply chains, localized processing capacity, and resilient domestic infrastructure capable of supporting energy storage, defense, and advanced manufacturing. The episode frames recycling, traceability, and battery technology as strategic national priorities that will define the next generation of industrial and energy leadership.
Guest: David Batstone is a venture capitalist and entrepreneur focused on building and scaling high-impact, mission-driven companies. He co-founded Not For Sale, an organization focused on combating human trafficking and forced labor in global supply chains and is the co-founder and managing partner of Just Business, an international investment firm. More recently, he co-founded Regenerate Technology Global, a battery recycling company at the forefront of next-generation materials recovery, turning the idea of circular supply chains into real, scalable infrastructure, an idea he has already executed on in the EU and now he is focused on bringing that technology to the US.
Host: Alberto Rosende is the President and CEO of Mi Global, Inc., a company dedicated to strengthening global resilience through the development of secure, transparent, and sustainable critical mineral supply chains. With decades of experience leading in the public and private sectors, Rosende brings a unique combination of strategic vision, operational discipline, and global perspective to the forefront of the minerals and energy sectors. Under his leadership, M2i Global has advanced initiatives and forged partnerships that align industry innovation with national security priorities.
Transcript: https://jumpshare.com/share/FI0eKscm6pNovaWaIJ0R
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in The Minerals and Metals Initiative podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests. They are provided for discussion and informational purposes only and do not represent the official policy, position, or recommendations of M2i Global, Inc. Any statements made should be understood as personal opinions, not factual claims, and should not be relied upon as investment, legal, or professional advice. While efforts are made to ensure accuracy, M2i Global makes no guarantees regarding completeness or reliability of the content.
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We should be right now creating the infrastructure that enables us to process and refine lithium-ion batteries. I'll put it that simple, all the way from making black mass to refining. I talked about the fact that, you know, it took it would take four to five years to actually build a legitimate operation from scratch today, given the current regulatory environment.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Minerals, Metals, Emission Effect. A podcast exploring the transformation of the critical minerals supply chain as we race for global resilience. On today's episode, we're speaking with David Batstone, a venture capitalist and entrepreneur focused on building and scaling high-impact mission-driven companies. He is the co-founder and managing partner of Just Business, an international investment firm, and has played a key role in launching and growing ventures across energy and advanced materials. Most recently, he founded Regenerate Technology Global, a battery recycling company at the forefront of next generation materials recovery using patented hydrometallurgical processes to extract and refine critical minerals from used batteries with lower emissions and less waste, turning the idea of circular supply chains into real scalable infrastructure. An idea he has already executed on in the EU and now is focused on bringing that technology to the United States. And before we begin, I'd like to disclose that Regenerate Technology Global and M2I Global have entered into a strategic partnership to bring battery recycling to the United States. Even though this episode is not to discuss our partnership, it may be mentioned. However, today's episode is to speak about how Regenerate Technology and David Batstone have been able to execute in a high regulatory environment like the EU, the role innovation has played in their ability to break into the market, and how Regenerate plans to break ground here in the United States and make an impact on the critical mineral supply chain. So, with that, I'd like to welcome today's guest, David Batstone, co-founder and CEO of Regenerate Technology. David, it's great to have you on the show. Thanks for taking the time. I really look forward to our dialogue. So welcome to the Minerals and Metals Initiative.
SPEAKER_00Real pleasure to be here with you, Al, both in terms of uh, you know, uh the what you're doing today and also just in terms of who you are. It's a real pleasure to sit down and and have a conversation.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks, David. And I guess before we get started on what Regenerate Technology Global is and what it does, give us a brief background on who David Batstone is and how uh you've worked your way to founding uh Regenerate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, certainly. Al, you know, it's been a it's been a journey. Um I really have never had a clear sight of where I'm going, but much more what's important to me and what I'm passionate about. And I, you know, uh multiple lives because I have a tripolar personality. Um I'm an academic, got my PhD at Berkeley, uh, taught at the University of San Francisco for uh many years and and wrote uh uh many academic books and journals. Uh I also have uh uh a passion for uh making a difference in the world through very tangible, pragmatic activity. Um I started an organization called Not For Sale, and we uh fight human trafficking around the world and help people get out of situations of exploitation, find a pathway forward through education and and security, a safe living, and then finding future uh uh entrepreneurial activity or jobs. So uh those are two very important parts of my life that don't get much play because I you know was a Silicon Valley entrepreneur. Um I've been both investor and operator, and that led me to uh regenerate today. Uh a colleague of ours, Doug Cole, who's the chairman of M2I, uh contacted me about 10 years ago and said that he was taking over a defunct mining company and he wanted to turn it into a green technology company, and he wanted my help. So I was happy to join in with them as both an investor, board member, uh, and uh business development uh operator. And we took that company to the NASDAQ, American Battery Technology Company. And in the process of that, I saw the real opportunity of not just doing something that was beneficial for the environment, but also was transformative for the energy platform, the energy sector. And so regenerate really was born out of my experience at American Battery, understanding the potential of uh material resources, uh, the assets that are implicit in whatever we produce, that they also create resources for future production. So uh uh I went out and started regenerate technology with uh a colleague of uh Doug Cole and myself, a guy named Ted Swindells. The two of us started this company about three years ago, and uh and we've been close cousins and uh siblings to M2I ever since.
SPEAKER_01Now, uh uh, you know, you talk about regenerate technology global, and I guess we'll we'll leave your other personalities out of it for now. Uh but I know that they'll continue to weave in because we are trying to do things in the most responsible way. And that kind of leads uh to the technology that you've embraced, that you've co-developed, and that you've brought to market. So, can you talk a little bit about what Regenerate Technology Global focuses on in terms of recycling or as you put it, upcycling both lead acid batteries as well as lithium-ion batteries? And we can talk a little bit more about how that technology came about and and what it really means uh to the industry and to the marketplace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's very transformative, Al, because most, you know, we think about how do we manage uh uh you know expendable resources that have been already used in the making of a product. And so, you know, many people are familiar with taking their uh you know aluminum cans down to the local grocery store or recycling their you know their pen light batteries and a flashlight. Uh and so the recycling in the in the in the perception and the assumption most people, it really is taking apart something, finding what you can scrap out of those materials and putting them back into a new manufacturing process. So it's uh you know, a full circle at least on some part of those materials uh that then avoids uh waste. Well, in this case, what we do is very different is we take those materials, say from a battery, and we uh separate out uh what was used in the previous uh incarnation of that battery, but then we use chemistry to actually change the structure of those materials. So they're different materials because we are actually uh changing their properties, their molecular structure, and what they can achieve. And so that becomes what we call upcycling. So it's not simply a replication of the previous manufacturer, but the new battery or the new product will have a very different configuration than the previous battery. And so it's a spiral upward. Now, what I like to think about this is that every uh every product product, whether it's a semiconductor or whether it's a solar panel or whether it's a battery, has within it an asset value and a future life. It's a shame to throw that away. Be almost like me taking out my wallet, taking out all my dollar bills and just throwing them down a sewer. That's what we're doing when we don't really tend to those materials that are in that battery. So, how do we understand that uh every battery in this case is an asset to be treasured rather than something that would contribute, you know, unfortunately, maybe to toxic waste into an environment, but even more so becomes a resource that we just don't utilize.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I think that you touched on something that's really important is understanding that many of the components that are involved in the manufacturing of a battery, especially when you start talking about the minerals that go to metals that go into the battery, uh, they can be utilized over and over almost indefinitely. They don't become a waste stream and they don't become consumed. It's just a matter of manipulating it and putting it back into production. And so your technologies on both sides really manipulate the chemical structure that goes into it, which allows it to be uh delivered to the new battery uh in a much better state than it was before.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I'd love to take credit for uh creating all of this, Al. But it was some uh great research scientist out of Cambridge University in the UK who developed out um over 25 patents in uh what is really water-based chemical process. Uh uh traditionally, you take a say a lead battery, and everyone can think of a lead battery as that square box in their car that they charge if ever it runs down and they have to put uh uh charger cables on it. You know, that battery we recycle, uh, or also say a storage battery at electrical grids that are backing up storage or in a solar farm. These big lead acid batteries, uh, to your point, the lead in that battery is a hundred percent recyclable infinitely. It never dies away. Also, the active materials or the oxide is also recyclable. And so we are able to capture about 99.5% of the materials in that battery and bring it back into the next production. Now, those those patents we applied first to lead acid and the same process with lithium ion. Now, what most people think of a lead smelter, a place where you actually have recycled for the last 120, 150 years a battery, is not a very uh uh uh you know uh environmentally beneficial place. You're using high heat, a lot of carbon emissions, a lot of toxic waste. And so this is what regenerate has targeted as a transformation of that process that we can rescue those materials and remediate them, but we can reduce the carbon footprint. We can reduce the toxic waste because we're using a water-based process and not a fire-based process.
SPEAKER_01You know, one of the things that you and I have always spoken about is the application of this technology and the process that it goes through to be able to extract all these materials and then upcycle them reduces energy and water consumption, which is something that's significant because it's a very responsible way of approaching a future. And so, could you take us a little bit through what those reductions are and what it really means to the communities in which these plants would be located in?
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. Uh you know, no one wants a uh a lead smelter in their backyard today for for good cause, good reason, right? That you know, a lot of a lot of uh uh fire power uh and a lot of energy is being used that could be used for other things in the community uh for starters. And then what happens is that they take that battery and they meld it down. And there's two key components there's the the lead paste and the lead metal. And so those are all melted together. It takes a couple of hours, two hours to melt it down. Now you have to spend two hours separating out what you already melted together. So you're using a lot of energy and you're using a lot and you're creating a lot of carbon uh emissions by doing that process. What we do is we break the battery down, we separate out the lead paste from the lead, and then we send the lead to a smelter where now you only need two hours because you're not having to separate back out the lead paste. We've eliminated that from the process. And then we treat the lead paste with our water-based chemicals, which doesn't require high heat. And you're you've reduced now 90% of your carbon emissions in that process, and you've eliminated 92% of your waste. It's a tremendous that's significant. So you're you know, imagine all the benefits, not only for the environment, but also you're cutting down uh production time by two hours for every batch. You're also then uh treating this lead uh paste in such a way that it can go back into the um uh manufacturing process to say that we're cutting carbon emissions by 90%, we're cutting toxic waste by 92%, and we're shortening the time that takes from four hours to two hours for every battery, that alone is quite significant.
SPEAKER_01Plus, the increase in responsible manufacturing and production as an output of what you provide as an input, right?
SPEAKER_00No, exactly. And so for a uh a traditional lead acid battery, the the fact that we can manipulate the uh molecular structure of that lead paste, it can yield in our studies at 40% higher energy energy density than the previous incarnation of that battery. Um, but what's really wonderful about this, Al, is that if you're a battery manufacturer and you tell me, you know, I'm not so much interested in energy density, I'm interested in cycle uh replication or uh, you know, or whatever whatever other end product, we can customize our manipulation of the molecules to meet your objective. And now that's the future of battery manufacturing and battery materials. It's not one size fits all, it's rather that we can work with the materials to maximize the and objective of what we want in that battery.
SPEAKER_01That I think is an amazing opportunity and a great solution set uh for the market. And speaking of the market, I know that we look at lead acid batteries as something that's really old technology. They've been around forever. Why is that even still important in today's world when we're looking at other batteries that will help us move into uh the future? Uh I know that in in just doing really quick research, you can tell that the lead acid battery market will still have a compound annual growth rate of something like four to five percent well into the future, into 10 or 15 years from now. So it it it makes a statement that says, wait, lead acid battery might be old technology, but we need to be uh cognizant of the fact they're gonna be around for a long time. And so this technology becomes really significant as we move forward. Can you talk a little bit about why we should be even look talking about it since lead acid batteries in the United States is a highly recycled commodity, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And the U.S. government uh recently listed it in their uh uh portfolio of critical minerals, and so lead is not something that is treated uh as anything but uh strategic for the national interests. And if you look at a lead acid battery, imagine the fact that in every vehicle made in America today, there is a lead acid battery. Even an electric vehicle has multiple lead acid batteries, and so the you know, just taking it on current use. Uh, I think you're right when you say 15 years, I've read those studies. I think it's more likely 20 to 25 years at a minimum, we'll still be really relying on lead acid batteries. And so, where are we gonna get those materials? Today we've outsourced them to other countries, uh, and that's a waste for our own economy and our own national interest. So, to bring that home in environmentally sensitive ways in ways that are gonna be beneficial to the community and to our own economy, to me, that's a no-brainer. But to your point, we're looking forward to new incarnations, new innovations in battery manufacturing. And so lithium ion is the first, you know, some of your listeners probably are familiar with potassium-based batteries, sodium batteries. There's a whole list of innovations that are happening. But what's really interesting to me is that much of the innovation is some hybrid form of uh bipolar battery or some bipolar form that still uses lead as the stable product within a highly charged new material. And so I've been talking to um uh more than talking to, I have an MOU with a uh a battery manufacturing company in Europe that is making new batteries for uh NATO, and they're bipolar batteries that use lead and lithium. They take advantage of the high charge power of a lithium battery that can charge quickly, recharge quickly, but the stability and safety and security of lead. And this is this is a lot of the kind of uh of experimentation innovation that's happening. What's needed in all of that out is a higher energy density, higher performing lead. And lead, even though it's been around a long time, we have not exacerbated the potential of lead for the power it can deliver. It's been locked up mostly because of doing the same old things with the same material, but bringing in new innovation to how lead can be dynamized, that's gonna change the way that lead is used in new forms of batteries.
SPEAKER_01I'm glad that you hit on the bipolar aspect of the lead and lithium battery uh that's now being looked at, particularly by all of the defense uh departments across the globe, especially in the West and NATO countries. I know the US is looking at it, and I know that the NATO countries are looking at it too. And it's interesting that you combine the two capabilities, right? The the the high charging or the free the uh the the short-term requirement to charge maximum a lithium battery versus the stability and safety that the lead battery brings to the table, and combining those two gives us a great capability, and obviously the technology that you're applying to being able to manipulate the molecular structure of the resulting lead that you're putting into the new battery is something that kind of fits hand to a glove to those kinds of requirements.
SPEAKER_00You know, and uh really I'm uh I'm agnostic about the the the elemental shift of where we go with batteries. Uh, we work with lithium ion as well as lead, but I will say that say lithium ion, let's say you're in a military environment and you're out in the desert in Iraq. Well, a lithium ion battery may not be the most secure uh battery to rely on, particularly if you know it could give away your position or creates a kind of environmental or safety hazard. So there, yes, you're right. The military is looking at innovating how batteries can be used in a way that fits performance, but also safety and security. And my guess is lead, well, not my even my guess, my observation is that lead is going to be an important part of that, at least for the next two or three decades.
SPEAKER_01The U.S. uh geological survey recently added lead as one of the additional minerals that are highlighted as critical minerals within the U.S. And I know that you talked about the strategic nature of it. Could you have uh could you talk to us a little bit about uh what you found in Europe and how important uh the lead acid battery recycling piece is because of lead?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, Al. You know, we uh we have an initial plan in Italy, and we uh are uh really looking at ways of transforming the way that that you know the home of of batteries and lead batteries was Italy initially. And uh, you know, Italy has uh just take an example, 300 tons of end-of-life lead batteries per annum coming out of their industry and out of consumers and all of their channels. Uh, but they're only have the capacity to uh process 100,000 of those batteries. So they're exporting for processing and recycling 200,000 tons of batteries, almost 66% of their battery, end-of-life battery production. And then they send them somewhere else to be processed, and then they have to buy batteries back, new batteries, for the materials that they themselves sent. So they're losing that asset, and they see that as a real you know challenge, a real problem. So that when we came into the into into Italy and provided this technology and this production, the national government deemed us of strategic national interest and wanted to support our our efforts. Now, this is something I'm finding across Europe, and of course it mirrors what's happening in America, a real focus on how do we regionalize jurisdictional control of battery materials and other critical minerals, overly reliant above all on China, but on other non-uh uh allied nation uh sources for not only the materials themselves, but the processing and refining. And now there's new laws in Europe you're familiar with, Al, that every battery needs to have a passport. And in that passport, they they want to know where those materials are coming from. Now, that's not only in the battery materials, but say uh inverters for uh uh electrical grid. The EU just passed a law. You cannot buy an inverter from China if you are using EU funding. So this is the beginning. Beginning of a trend that you're going to see accelerate the focus and investment and development of innovation around critical minerals.
SPEAKER_01You just touched on something that I was going to leave for later, and that is the supply chain transparency that's required for manufacturing of a lot of different goods. Specifically, we're talking about batteries here. But anything that comes from a critical mineral source is going to have to be able to uh uh be transparent as to where the provenance is of that material. And the passport piece that's a requirement in Europe now. When does that take effect and when will it be mandated throughout the EU?
SPEAKER_00Well, that the the tracking has has now come into play this year, and then uh the full uh passport by the year 2028. Uh every battery needs to be able to do several things. One is province, as you mentioned. Two is what was the environmental impact? What's the carbon footprint of that material? And three, how what percentage of recycled materials was used in that production? And there's metrics from 20 to 30 percent of recycled materials within that time frame that need to be met. Now, I'm excited, not only because I love the impact and where this is headed, but also because of the delta between the amount of recycled materials available and the recycled materials that are going to be demanded cannot be filled by existing resources. And so I want to be front of the pack of saying, hey, we can provide that opportunity and fulfill those obligations and add to the recycled materials of high quality that are available for production.
SPEAKER_01That's a great way to enable your business plan, right? I mean, that's that's that's wonderful news for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm from you know, I'm a California uh uh surfer guy. Uh it's like sitting on the wave, you see it coming, okay. I'm gonna position myself to catch that wave.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Now let's go ahead and switch to lithium-ion batteries uh and their upcycling in the in the way that you've approached it. Uh, but let's take a step back as far as what's the initial feedstock, something called black mass. And I know that we're producing black mass in the United States, and there's a delta there between what we're producing and the capabilities uh that we have or the capacity we have to recycle that material.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and and I did I just want to um uh highlight, I know you know this, Al, that the situation I described in Italy is exactly where the United States is today. We are outsourcing, and even more so, the processing and refining of those materials, which I find is quite strategic because that's where the added value is, that's where the innovation is, that's where you know you are determining the capacity of that battery by controlling that processing and refining. So you're absolutely right. Uh, and this is why I'm excited to come to the United States. I'm excited to partner with M2I, because we want to be at the forefront working with the government and the military on strategic national interests, not only providing uh opportunities and platforms for uh enterprises for manufacturing. Just to take a step back and make it very simple for people, is that where does where does black black mass come from? You know, black mass today is sourced above all from all those material consumer goods that we have: a laptop battery, um a power tool battery, a cell phone battery. We call those mobile devices. And so those those batteries can be recycled and should be recycled. And hopefully there's not a battery in America that's not recycled, but that's really at the the source. You know, most people, when I say we're doing lithium-ion battery recycling, they think of electric vehicles. Well, there's a very small proportion of uh electric vehicle batteries that are being recycled because of the fact they haven't been around long enough. Most you know, electric vehicle batteries have a life of say eight to ten years. The vast majority uh have that life cycle. And then the the final category that I would include is then storage batteries. And increasingly, say, for these AI centers that have uh high demands on energy storage, uh that they are using a lot of lithium ion these days. You know, those storage batteries are used for uh backup of say wind, solar power, uh, electric grids, um, and data centers. So there's a lot of storage batteries going to be available, but it's really a small percentage. Let me put it this way the amount of black at mass being created today is going to jump exponentially every year because of the fact that we're creating more and more lithium-ion batteries today.
SPEAKER_01I was looking at the demand of end-of-life lithium battery recycling versus the capacity that's being developed. Uh, and I know that the fluctuation in lithium prices, and we don't need to go into what's driving a lot of that, but uh we know that that has deterred uh from some of the expansion of that black mass recycling base. And so, what what is the plan that Regenerate has to be able to come in and and fulfill some of that capability that's so wanting in the United States currently?
SPEAKER_00We approach this very much as a market-driven strategy. Um uh I I had mentioned that I was involved in in another lithium-ion battery company where you know, large capacity, a lot of capital investment was put into building a large plant and equipping it for a future that will come. You know, it I call it, you know, it it's like the build-in-it will come strategy. And I I'm not a big believer in that strategy. I think you build your capacity to the market. And so to start with, I would say that we're very modular, that we focus on being able to build the equipment and deploy it to the extent to which those materials are available today. Right? So that's point one. The second is you know, we discussed innovation and batteries. I think right now lithium ion batteries, uh NMCs they're called, nickel, manganese, cobalt, were the number one source. Now we're moving towards LFP. And I don't know, within three to four years, maybe we have sodium lithium batteries, or we have, you know, or whatever it might be. But we want to prepare for that future so that if the chemistry of the prevailing battery emerges, and it's not what we've been recycling up till now, that we can quickly pivot because we have not over-capitalized on existing equipment. So, success in this business is the ability to pivot quickly as chemistries change, the ability to customize the end result that you need. So you're not overcapitalizing in technologies that will become irrelevant within a short period of time. So that's really as a baseline business strategy, but also it's understanding that that moment will come when there's going to be a tremendous uh demand for recycling, as you say, and there's not in place the kind of facilities that are needed to take advantage of that. And it's not easy to do that quickly. It's not like you can wait and say, okay, now there's a big demand, we're going to start off. Why? Because there's a real challenge of setting up a lithium-ion battery processing plant from scratch. And it has to do with permits, it has to do with the equipment available, it has to do, there's a whole range of things that make it very unlikely that you can quickly start turning on the spigot. So if you're interested in lithium-ion battery recycling in four years, you got to start now.
SPEAKER_01You know, we've had uh uh several discussions with policy think tanks uh in the United States on the podcast. And I was wondering what what do you see in terms of policy um and efforts at the congressional level or throughout uh you know the U.S., whether it's at the state level or otherwise, what what do you see? Are they going hand in hand with the capacity uh that will be required in the near future? Because you're not talking about like mining, where right now we know that a mine to open and begin into production takes 10 to 20 years to permit and go through all of the issues, which I know that the current administration is working on reducing, but just from a recycling plant perspective or an upcycling plant perspective, what's the timeline that you're looking at and what efforts are out there that are supporting you achieve those?
SPEAKER_00Listen, at a policy and and say a national strategic um perspective, we should be right now creating the infrastructure that enables us to process and refine lithium-ion batteries. Uh, I'll put it that simple, all the way from making black mass to refining. I talked about the fact that you know it took it would take four to five years to actually build a legitimate operation from scratch today, given the current regulatory environment. What's happening now uh with uh lithium ion battery, black mass, almost all of it, and I'm thinking 80 to 90 percent is being sent to Asia. And when I say Asia, I'm usually referring to Korea andor China. Now, this is happening in Europe as much as it's happening in America, and there's a couple of reasons for that. One is we just don't have the capacity in the Western world for for competing technologically with Asia. And the second part of that is that particularly in China, we know that those operations are being subsidized by the national government, and so it's difficult for us to compete on a price level. So you're talking two strikes against you, right? Uh and so this is why you know we're biting the bullet. We're using private investment to build out infrastructure so that we can contribute to the American national interest. Like the passport in Europe that's requiring a certain amount of materials being used for recycling, that incentivizes investment toward that end, right? That's a smart strategy. It's it's not just about, well, there's a bunch of environmental green people over there. It's thinking about how do you use incentives, capital incentives, to reach an objective, and we want to control our supply chain. And that goes from making the initial material for the materials and then refining those materials and then manufacturing those materials all within the United States.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's an interesting point that you touch on because there's an awful lot of effort in trying right now at the administration's level to look at how we source critical minerals, how we process them and refine them when they're recently extracted, and trying to make sure that we build the capability here from a national security and an economic security perspective. But what incentives are created either at the state or federal levels that might incentivize companies like yourselves in creating that capability within uh the borders of the US or our allies?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, you know, it's really interesting to me that it's not necessarily uh coming from an environmental perspective, which, you know, I'll be uh honest with you, is one of the main drivers I started my company, but it's really coming from a financial economic perspective. We are in very advanced conversations with a major uh lithium-ion battery manufacturing company uh emerging on the eastern part of the United States, and they want us to uh uh put our plant inside their facility so that we it's a plug-and-play where we will be able to provide battery materials for their production. Now, the source for that will be not only recycled materials, but it will also be battery waste that's generated from the making of a battery. Probably about 15 to 18 percent of the materials that are being used in making a battery are waste. We can process and refine those materials and put them right back into the supply chain again. So they're thinking from an economic margins game. They're thinking about it in terms of we would be crazy not to be able to provide our own um supply chain as local as we can do it. And so I think that's a really smart strategy on their part. They're thinking about how do we get access to materials to make a battery and do it in a more profitable way.
SPEAKER_01I think that's an interesting strategy, and I know that that's kind of replicating what they're doing in China, where they locate recycling of batteries, but right at the manufacturing plant. So they create a closed loop system within the batteries that are in the vehicles that they're selling. And so they're even closing the loop even tighter on the control of the battery and the battery materials and the recycling of that. And I don't know if you see that expanding uh in the U.S. from a policy perspective or even an OEM interest perspective.
SPEAKER_00There's a real interest, and I think it has to do with um access to critical minerals. Um let's just look at it not from either a financial or an environmental, but let's just look at it as a practical access base. These OEMs uh in the United States, uh, you know, and um it you know, not just talking about Tesla, but also the major manufacturers, they are looking at the future uh access to lithium, manganese, cobalt, lead. I mean, they're just doing a strategic uh analysis of how much is going to be available and how much do we uh uh are we going to need? And there's a severe shortage there. And you know, it certainly when there's no domestic sourcing for that, now we're dependent wholly on what we can get from overseas. But even with say within the major uh uh producers today in Asia, there's gonna be a real demand on their materials. Are we gonna be able to get access to that? Do we want to be dependent on that? You know, if there's a military conflict, do we want to be like Europe when you know the Russia-Ukraine war started, that we can't get access to critical energy sources? So, you know, these the OEMs are thinking, doing these you know strategic games, if you want to call it that, uh to really uh uh to rationalize the future. And this is what I want to do more and more. You know, Al, you and I went to Washington, D.C. to speak to you know major agencies about how we see the future of critical minerals. We want to be shaping that policy with, you know, from the private sector, with national agencies and and governmental bodies, because this is of our future. This is energy is our future, strategic natural resources, and we have to think about innovation. I mean, where the country started Google, Facebook, Apple, Intel, go down the line. Why aren't we applying that ingenuity, those resources, and those incentives to create a new energy future? That's where we need to be.
SPEAKER_01So, what do you see as the next five to ten years of where you would like to see yourself? But what what what do you see the marketplace and where do you see regenerate fitting in?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's funny when you're when you're in a uh you know, as we've been three years now, you're in a startup uh uh position. You know, people want to know, well, what are you? You know, are you a bird? Are you a snake? Or you know, it's like what are you? And so you got to choose a label. And so, okay, we're we're a recycling company. Now, unfortunately, uh that you know is as limiting as it is descriptive, because that's not who we think we are or where we want to be, but you have to define yourself, right? So, you know, we really are a battery technology and materials company. We want to innovate what batteries can be and what they can do. And so the best way to do that is to um understand, control, and uh manipulate the power of those materials, understand it better than anyone else. Now, we are starting to enter into conversations with OEMs and battery manufacturers about how much better their batteries could perform if they changed the way they use materials. So now we're moving into design architecture and performance. And so, really, the materials really was a foundation and base for us to be able to speak authentically, authentically and credibly about our knowledge of batteries. So I see us, Al, as helping to design the future, not just of batteries, but of energy systems. And so that's where we're headed, is that we want to be the architects and engineers that are in conversations with the people who matter in energy, which includes not just technology, uh, say materials, but information and how you use data and AI to transform that future.
SPEAKER_01I I think it's a fascinating look into the future to look at it through your eyes in the way you've just described it. We we we need the energy with the thin the grid for those that are tethered to the grid, but more and more the demand is to be untethered. And so if we're gonna be untethered, we need to have an energy storage source that can carry the the energy that we require and do so in a safe and uh efficacious way.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I just I mentioned earlier in the in the in our program my passion for not for sale, uh which is dignity for people and planet. And you know, the the reason that I'm moving in this direction is that uh one, I I want everyone to see that there is no such thing as waste. It's only unrealized assets. So one is that there there is no that we should not be designing anything for waste, but for uh repurposing and you know, platform for the future. The second is how do we build energy systems that really matter for people, communities, and the environment? Let's do better. Let's create systems that are good for people and planet. And we can do that in a way that is financially uh profitable for the smart people who are part of the innovation.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. Uh, David, before we go, I always like to ask all of our guests, what's on your desktop? So, what are the priorities that you're facing in the short term?
SPEAKER_00Uh, in the in the short term, um, I want to build a strong private company that can go to government and ask for appropriate partnership. And so, you know, we're in the process of building several companies of our own and acquiring others, uh, but building uh in a viable way um our uh our company with private investors, with profitable businesses, and then looking to be partners with uh regional governments around the world that are our friends to be able to say, you know, we we can help build strategic national interest with you. And we're not coming here with our hands out needing all your money. We just we need your infrastructure support.
SPEAKER_01Well, fantastic, David. I really appreciate the time and and and going into what Regenerate is doing and looking at these markets specifically. And what we're really talking about is being able to secure our pathway into the future as a nation by being able to apply the technologies and innovation that you've discussed. So thank you very much for your time. It's always fascinating to spend time with you. And thanks for being on the show. Real real pleasure. Thanks. And to everyone who listened or watched this episode, thank you for joining us. Be sure to follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts to keep enjoying the Minerals and Metals Initiative.
