Carless People | Ch. 26 - 48

The back half of this book reveals even deeper, darker secrets. Mark considers a presidential campaign run. After all, Facebook did get Trump elected. Facebook is willing to sell their souls to countries who will use their data to persecute their citizens. Anything in the name of revenue growth. After learning the dark side to Facebook, where does the author stand?! Well, listen to find out!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Thanks for calling Plotline Hotline. This call may be monitored and recorded for quality assurance purposes. If you're calling because you read Careless People, please stay on the line. I'm executive producer Paige Turner, and joining us are your hosts, Claire, Tiff, and Courtney. Please hold while we connect you to the hosts. And again, welcome to Plotline Hotline.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Good morning. Good morning.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Good morning. This is a singing podcast now. Yes. Hello, boys. What's up? Oh, we forgot to clap. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Ready? Three, two, one. Nice. Morning.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Good morning. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

I think I'm gonna leave that all along. I think you should. That's funny. Well, we did that clap one time. And for all you listeners at home, it sometimes takes us two to three. I'd say average two. Two. Yeah, just because our internal, our internal metronome is a little off.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

How's everybody doing? What's the what's the hot goss? What's the hot goss? Tiff, you got some hot goss.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Well, it's not really goss, but you have fun stuff coming up. Hot goss is I leave on Friday for Vietnam. And I it's and I'm going for 16 days, and I have my out of office set, and it says, I am not working, and I am not answering emails. You will hear from me when I return.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

That's so good. It makes me want to send you like a test email just to get that rejection back.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Well, it it starts on the 6th, so you wouldn't get it until the 6th.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Alright. I'll give note. Damn, so like over two weeks, no working. What are you what takes you to Vietnam?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Um, well, Amy's best friend, Mai, is getting married. A shout out. And so there's gonna be a wedding in Ho Chi Minh. And that's like a tradition more traditional ceremony that Amy gets to be a part of. And then there's a wedding in Danong, which is more of like a beach town where we're gonna be staying at like a resort, which is really cool. Um, so we'll go up there, and then in between, or maybe at the end, we're going to Hanoi. So we're really doing we're doing three three major cities bopping around. I'm really excited. Claire, you've been to Vietnam before, right? No, I haven't. Oh, you were in just in Thailand.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, I was I did like Thailand and Bali, the southeast, but I never made it to Vietnam because there was visa questions and Oh, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

We just got approved for our visas this morning. Amazing. Was it an easy process? It was super easy. Yeah. We took our pictures at home and just uploaded it, just took a couple days. It took like three business days, four business days.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

I love that. You know, that's such a blocker for me at times. Like, I know it's not a huge lift, but sometimes following instructions, especially government instructions, can be really daunting for me.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Well, I will say, we were just like sitting here two weeks ago and I was like, do we need a visa? And Amy looked it up and she was like, We need a visa. Oh my god, thank God you thought of that. Yeah, yeah. So, well, I just remember because we needed one for Bali, which is like it wasn't anything crazy, but um like I was like, I just remembered that. Um And yeah, most most visitors need a visa. I feel like when you book your play, there would probably be well so they do say like make sure you have your entry requirements. They don't really say what it is. Okay, but um I bet if you got there you could apply there. Yeah. Pay a little pay a little exped expedited fee. Yeah, it's probably it probably costs more. Yeah, but I I just feel like you know, I mean, I just like I'm just thinking of like when I went to Mexico City, they were like, keep hold hold tight to your customs, blah, blah, blah. Like, no one looked at it. And I was like, okay. And like, I just feel like there's like so many of these things that listen, I'm a rule follower too. Like, I don't, that's not something I would, but if that was my only option, I'd just show up and try to charm them. Well, you are charming. It would work and it would work, it would work. Thank you, thank you. Um, Courtney, what's up with you? What's what's your what do you got going on?

SPEAKER_05 4:40

What do I have going on? Um big stretch, big stretch over there. Sorry, you caught me mid-stretch. Uh you know, I've been watching a lot of basketball lately, and there's more to come, so that's exciting. It's uh getting into March Madness. We've got the Big Ten tournament, we got unrivaled finals, uh, the U.S. women's national team is coming to Columbus on Wednesday. The crew home opener is on Saturday. God, it's uh all I can talk about is sports. Yeah, it's Courtney's happy place. If you need me, I'll be in front of the TV with a book. I like to watch while I read. I don't know why. Is that even possible? Yeah, because like there are some sports games where I'm like, I don't necessarily need or want to watch the whole entire thing start to finish, but I do want to be there for the big moments. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Because there's always replays, right? So you you can hit it on that replay. There's always replays. We got a rewind button on the TV.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

I like to I like to work while I watch basketball. Yeah. Because it's like easy to hear, and if I'm like, I do a little bit and then I give myself a little bit to watch and all that stuff. But teams. Uh for best. Well, right now it's unrivaled. So Courtney and I were texting last night. We were rooting for the Breeze to win because they're the youngest team out there, and they were so close to beating the mist that they they fumbled like a 16-point lead. Oh, damn. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

What is Unrivaled? Is it like a TV show or is it like a separate league?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

No, it's a 3v3 women's basketball league, and it's the WNBA players. It's to like stop them from going overseas so that they can stay competitive during the offseason. Claire, I think they'd really have a lot more money than to go out and get a lot of money. And the 3v3,000. Did you say six dollars? And there's only like six hundred thousand dollars, and there's only like six people on a roster. Yeah. So Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Um I will get into this. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

And it was it was a league, and it was built by Fee and Stewie. So it was like built by players. And if the CBA doesn't go through for the WMBA, they're probably just gonna have a longer or another unrivaled season.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Sounds good.

unknown 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

I like the smaller, uh, like the smaller squads. Everybody, you know, gets their time, time to shine. You gotta really have your strengths, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Yeah, but it is like a a different game of bass. Like it's the game is different. It's so much faster. The court is smaller. Um it's fun to watch.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Very fun.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

No commercials in the fourth quarter. Oh shit. And you just have a winning score. Like there's and the fourth quarter has no time limit. I'm looking up images here.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

So it's kind of like street ball in that regard. Yeah. Which is very fun.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Oh shit. So it looks like an actual court. It's just not as long, it looks like.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah. Just because they're they're really running when you watch her. I don't know how they do it. They are running.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Hey, maybe we can form a little three, uh, we got a three team right here. Let's uh anybody want to take some rifles on?

SPEAKER_03 8:00

We would get absolutely smoked. I don't know. Claire's pretty good.

SPEAKER_05 8:05

I've played with her. Claire's pretty good. Claire, she's a good post.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

You know what? Cody's pretty good too. I've played with her too. Courtney is pretty good. We I can pass the ball real well.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

I was a bench warmer for a year. All right, Claire, we need a new third.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Also for the podcast. Sub 30. So, you know, you got the speed, Tiff. Don't sell yourself. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Yeah, Tip. Well, I have the speed at long distance. I can run almost a 10-minute mile. It's a long game. It's a long game. Those are our stats when we when we get called out. They're like, can almost run a 10-minute mile. Claire, good post. Courtney, charismatic.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

I'll take it. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Spirit fingers. Claire, what do you have going on? How's how's the business how's the business happening?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Um, oh man, things are things are going, there's a lot of place spinning. Um so I signed up for coaching for with this woman who's like launched her own mobile bar business. So that starts this week. Oh my god, that's fun. I was just hoping that she'll help me get over this insurance hurdle. Um so that's gonna be moving along. Um just applied for like business cards. Um yeah, I got back from Mexico safely. That was awesome. Oh that's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

That was that.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah, that was a big one.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

That was I like texted Claire and Juliet and I was like, hey guys, y'all guys? How's it going down there? Well, because it was I it's just one of those things where it's like, I don't know. I and I said this to them. I was like, I'm unsure what the media is blowing out of proportion, so I don't want to be ignorant by asking this, but just want to make sure everything's okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah. Um, no, that's fair. Like being down there, because we were supposed to fly out on Monday and it was Sunday, and it was like the Guadalajara airport just got stormed by the cartel. There's an airplane on fire, and so you you don't know what's AI, you don't know what's real, so I really get it. Um yeah, it was I mean, it was everything shut down. Uh, so it very much felt like the threat was real, but I didn't feel like I was in immediate danger. I just didn't know if I could fly out. Yeah. Um and w did your flight end up getting delayed at all or anything? Yeah, I was able to get on it. And I think there was still a shelter in place, but Uber started working. That was like the the sign we needed. Um and we were able to go to the airport together. Juliette changed her flight, and so we like flew out pretty much um back to back.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Um Yeah, I think it's just one of those things where you're just like wrong place, wrong time. Um you know, there's so many forms of that, and I think it's good for everybody to experience a wrong place, wrong time moment as long as they can make it out. Um and so yeah, it but we're here, and uh I think my nervous system is back in check. Um and yeah. It's there's been uh this is another thing we've been up to recently. We've been watching the Scream franchise. Have you guys seen the Scream franchise?

SPEAKER_05 11:09

I think one or two of them.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

I I'm loving it. I think it is awesome. Um we're on four.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Well, there's a new one coming out, too. There is.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

It is out. That's what sparked us. Um great, great Friday night movie night if you guys need recommendations.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

I would be so afraid to watch Scream at your house just because I get uh really afraid when I look out the windows and all you can see is darkness. Yeah, that's totally fair. It's kind of why I love a city. There's night lights everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Yep, yep, you don't got that here. Uh yeah, it's I I feel that, but it's cracking me up. It's cracking me up. This this show.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yeah, I mean it's like it's like true tradition like classic slasher movies, so it's like there's some campiness to these where you're like, well, that person's gonna die first. Or like, like, what are you doing? Like, you're like, stop doing that, and they just they're all making the wrong decisions.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

They are, and they have those characters where it's like, okay, in movies, you know, the the virgin always lives. As long as you don't lose your virginity, you're good. And then in like the sequel, it'd be like, okay, the sequel's gonna be gorier, and I've lost my virginity, so I hope I can make it out. And it's just like playing on cinema while watching cinema is really fun. Um love that. Alright, well, I'm gonna keep you guys out here one night and we're gonna watch it, and you guys are gonna go. Well, I don't know if we need to do that. That's fair. That's fair. What are your guys' like favorite scary movie?

SPEAKER_03 12:47

I don't like scary movies. Oh, hereditary was really I mean, that one fucked me up for weeks. Hereditary? What is that even about? Uh demonic possession. Jesus. Oh my gosh. That does sound like or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I don't know. It's crazy. You should watch it. I'll think about it. I'll put it on the back burner, but Courtney, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

You're gonna imagine Tony Collette hiding in a hiding in a corner in a dark room.

SPEAKER_05 13:13

So I love her, and she really has done a lot of scary stuff that I can't bring myself to watch. Did you guys ever watch um oh my god, what is that Tony Collette show where she has uh multiple personality disorder? Oh no. What? You're gonna have to cut that. United States of Terror. You're gonna have to cut that. Why are you guys laughing at me?

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Because that's literally how we met.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

Oh, good. I thought I said something offensive. I thought I wasn't called personality disorder. Wait, that's how you guys mess that. Oh my god, tell the story. I'm sad.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Well, I don't know if Amanda's listening to this. Sorry, Amanda, but I was sexiled from my uh uh dorm room. So I was just sitting outside and we like lived across the hall from the bathroom. So I was just like sitting outside of the bathroom.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

You're the bathroom attendant for the night. Can I get you some soap, some mini?

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Two or three dollars. Yeah, it was like a Friday night. It was like actually looking back, kind of sad for me to be there. Um But hey, look what happened. Claire was also it was like maybe the first or second week, and Claire was a freshman. Yep. So Claire was still in her making friends era, you know. Isn't Claire always in her making friends era though? Claire is always in her making friends era, but I think Claire went to the bathroom and came out and like did something and then like came back and was like, Hey, you want to come watch the show? Claire's a Tara. And then I was like, sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

And then Tiff whipped out a few versions of Tiff.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

And then I was like, Whoa, this is crazy. I have a couple of these. Obviously, not diagnosed just for fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Wow. I love that. Yeah, I love that story, and I love that there were multiple versions of Tiff that we met that night.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

And then I taught Claire how to say goddamn.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Oh, that was, yeah, we had to practice that.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

Oh, because you're so religious that you weren't allowed. I mean, I was just conditioned. No, we, my grandma was like, God damn is the worst thing you can say. Right? Can you say it, Courtney? Well, to this day, yes. I don't know about it. Yeah, goddammit.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Oh!

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Courtney's saying a lot of goddamn. Yeah, and fricks. Frick. Courtney's giving a lot of goddamn it's a frick's. I love frick.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

I love that. I'm gonna have to steal that. That's a good one. Frick? Frick's fun. Frick.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Frick is fun. Frick is fun to type. Frick. Frick. It looks so funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

You know, address. Address is a word that when I type it out, I always am like, did I spell this correctly? I don't know if it's the two Ds followed by the R. It's a tough one.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

That was so good.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Courtney, you're gonna have to clip that for Instagram. Yep, yep. Oh perfect segue into speaking of addresses, www.facebook.com.

SPEAKER_05 16:24

Did that's pretty good. That was pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

Oh, that's so funny. Um, are we ready to get into it? Yeah, it's about that Facebook wrapping up careless people.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

Careless people. Also, I was doing some Googling just to like, you know, I've it's whenever I read uh a nonfiction, I do like to, you know, do a lot of Googling. To Goog. And uh this book came out today's March 3rd, 2026. This book came out March 11th, so we are almost exactly a year behind. Really have our finger on the on the pulse.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Look at us.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

That's a good thing, right? Like we are we're close.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

We're current. We're up. We're current.

unknown 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:08

We're so hip. Although I will say, Claire's next book. Um, I got mine in the mail, and it's used, and it smells like a lot, like it smells like you know, when you walk into a bookstore and there's a thousand shelves and they're they're stuffed to the gills with books from the 80s, and it smells, and then the books smell. That's what that's what's that's what I've got going on with my book, and I think it might give me a headache when I start reading it. So I might have to um I might have to get the Kindle version. Courtney has such sensitive systems. Tiff, you know when we were in um uh was it Toronto or Milwaukee? I think it was Milwaukee, and Claire was hung over, and so you and I went on a little adventure, and you made me pick everywhere we went because I couldn't make any decisions, and then we walked by a bookstore and you were like, and I was like, oh, we should go in there, and then we walked in, and immediately I was like, we gotta get out of here. It smelled like that. It smelled like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah, uh traveling with Courtney was very interesting. Oh boy. No, that was fun. That was fun, it's good. It's like a full body experience. Which has I think inspired what I want to do for my birthday, if anyone's interested in coming to Chicago. What is it? I think I've decided that I want to take a group of friends to the casino. Oh, that sounds good.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

The Hammond casino?

SPEAKER_03 18:25

No, no, no, no. The Bali's casino downtown.

SPEAKER_05 18:28

Oh, is it open? Sounds awesome. Yeah, I didn't know that. I thought you wanted to get everybody in the car for 45 minutes, drive to Hammond and go to the cross the border.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

No, I think going to the one downtown, everyone could take the train. That that would be fun.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

That would be fun. That would be, and it's on a Friday night, is your birthday, so are you thinking that day after? Or the Friday night.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Friday or Saturday, yeah, it kind of depends. I could always do a Benny Hanna Friday night for you know the close group. Close friends only group.

unknown 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Run them tables. Both of those tables are gonna be running.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Oh, Claire. Guys, I feel like my birthday is table themed. I feel like everyone's firing on all cylinders this morning. I'm gonna call it tiffs tables. TIFS tables.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

TIFS tables. Tee tee.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Um table of tiffs tables.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Sorry to ruin the vibe. I gotta go blow my nose. I'll be back. Okay, perfect. I'm gonna get more coffee. Oh, what about me?

SPEAKER_05 19:31

Sorry, Courtney. All right, what does everybody on this podcast want to listen to me monologue about for uh 60 to 120 seconds? Let's see. Um, I have accidentally put a lot of pressure on myself and now my mind is blanking. Huge bummer. Um let's see. Um my fear is that Tiff is not gonna cut this, so I'm just gonna throw an apology out to everybody in advance if Tiff keeps this in when she does the editing. I've asked Tiff to teach me how to do the editing, um, just for one less thing on her workload. And she said uh kind she in a kind way, she said no, because it won't be as good as if she does it and she wants to put out a polished product, and I respect that. Um she's coming back, so I have to stop talking shit about her.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Were you just vamping? Vamping?

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Hmm. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 20:31

I feel like that's something like a term used for someone that's like just left on stage to keep the crowd busy.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

Oh, yep. I was doing oh wow, you both really came back at the same time. Um I I was I started uh just making a joke, and then I had I felt like I had to keep the airwaves running. And then I started talking about how I wanted you to teach me how to do the editing, and you kindly told me no, because it wouldn't be as good as when you do the editing. So I I wouldn't have any way to cut this out because I had a bad feeling that you were gonna keep it in. And so I was apologizing to everybody for having to listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Yeah, unfortunately, it is gonna stay. Claire, do we have the same haircut? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

I was just looking at you like Take those headphones off, both of you. Let me get a little picky. I'm gonna I need I need I need an inspo to take to my hairdresser the next time. You guys can't hear me because you have your headphones off. Smile. Got it.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Uh has more of a curtain bang, I feel.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

You can take us out of the same state, but you can't take us out of the same haircut. But uh we we just were looking more like even though we're further apart. It's um poetic, actually. It is poetic.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

That's how we stay close.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Uh Tiff.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

Honestly, you look like a first grader in that photo I just took.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I I, you know, there's my deep set eyes really can be tricky.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Oh Did you just blink Tiff? That was like a full blink. Oh, I'm blinking too. Oh, I'm blinking. And the sponsor this week is camera covers.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Get yourself a camera cover.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

You never know who's watching.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

That's my first channel. You really don't. I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook was watching.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Speaking of Facebook, I think we should wrap up careless people and tell each other our deepest, darkest thoughts. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Alright.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Okay. So when we left off.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah, refresh us where we're. I'm gonna be honest. I flew through this book. Yeah, I feel like you've been done for a long time, Tiff. I think I got done like two or three days after we recorded the podcast because I was like, I want to, I'm chomping at the bit to get to more of it.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

I love that. I love that. Um we left off.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

The whole time you kept that enthusiasm. There was you didn't, you didn't.

SPEAKER_05 22:55

Sounds like sounds like Claire's Claire Claire wavered in the second half.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Well, I just thought it started getting more and more interesting because the stakes were getting higher and higher, and they were and they were sorry, I s you distracted me.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Okay, I it's a little bit early, I think, to jump in. So but so before I jump into what I want to say, Courtney, did you want to take us on a specific journey?

SPEAKER_05 23:25

No.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Get in there, get in there, Claire. Um maybe, you know, this just seems seems to be a theme with books where the back half I lose momentum. So maybe this is me and not her. Um but at one point I got to the to ask myself, like, is this woman? She's just like never, she's just like never the hold on, let me back up. Let me set the scene first, okay? So there's this um thought out there that Taylor Swift is a communal narcissist. So like narcissism, they have different pillars. And um in her one of her songs recently, she calls herself a cobra narcissist, but she could just be playing with words. But this woman's like, no, Taylor Swift's actually a communal narcissist because she loves the attention, she loves to be on the big stage, she loves to portray altruistic values. Um, but all of like the things behind narcissism she still possesses, she just does it in a way where it looks like she's like serving the greater good. And so I had just like read about these different versions of narcissism and then going into this book, and like, man, this author always puts herself in a position where she had the right values and ethics, and um she was trying to do the right thing, and um everybody around her was like making these poor decisions, or like she threw people under the bus who, in my opinion, it didn't really add value always to like throw under the bus or like tell these like things about that particular person. And so I started getting to a point where it's like, great, like you are exposing a lot, and this is like all of this stuff is very fucked up. Um, but the way in which she like always painted herself as like, and my how I was reading it, like, you know, like I had this higher ethical value, but bitch, you were like also going along with this shit. You know, like you reported sexual assault, he was like, hey, if you keep it under the rug, you know, like you're good, you'll be loyal. So you what did you do? You kept it under the rug, and then you're still trying to sit here and say, like you you knew all along that like it just I wanted her to take a little bit of like either accountability or not paying herself as a savior the whole book.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

I kind of agree. I and I I had this, I was I was worried about this in the first half that like she's noticing all these huge red flags, and like, you know, by the time she's writing the book, it's 10, 12, 13 years afterwards. But she did not, it just felt like um there was way too much that she let slide under the rug in the early days, which I guess I to an extent I understand because she had no power and whatever, but like seemingly that would have been the time when it's a smaller company, there's not as much um I don't know, there's just like less like of a spotlight on Facebook from a global perspective. Like it just kind of feels like that would have been the time to be like, hey, let's make sure we're doing things the right way, at least a little bit. And if it didn't work, it didn't work, but at least try. That was my um because I'm kind of with you, Claire. I really enjoyed the book. Um really enjoyed the book. But I do think that she didn't take any accountability, and that was kind of frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yeah, because she even like got let go, which was fucked up, how she got let go, because I think it she tried to like transfer teams because she was like, this team isn't for me.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yeah. But then she tried to transfer teams because they weren't gonna do anything about the sexual assault. And and because of that, he was like stopping her from doing her job and then giving her a bad review.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

And I will say, big grain of salt here because my mom is in HR and like I've heard this stuff growing up, but like, how do you get to be like that big in any company and like have like a very successful career? To me, it's very second nature that when this stuff starts happening, the only way to prove it later is to get everything in writing. So if that's an email to your HR person that says, I'm uncomfortable with XYZ, or here's some stuff, we don't need to do anything about it, I just want to make you aware, or to your boss, or to whoever, she had no paper trail. And so she mentioned throughout the book that she had said, like, hey Elliot, are you seeing these things with Joel? And it's like, okay, well, that doesn't count. You know what I mean? Like, they're not gonna do anything with that.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

And so I'll say my experiences with HR is that they're also not doing anything.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

No, I agree, but at least there's a paper trail because she wouldn't have been able to get fired. Like, if she had a paper trail, there's no way she could have gotten fired because she could have sued the shit out of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah. And in Discovery, they would have had to, they would have to. Yeah, they would have had to.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

I mean, that's what we think, but I do feel like Facebook has so much money that they could probably be like, actually, that paper trail doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

And maybe that this book is her leverage, because I've been curious, like, how did she get away with exposing all of these like really raw truths?

SPEAKER_03 28:42

And they definitely I Googled it, they like definitely tried to hit she wasn't allowed to market the book. Not at all. At all. So she couldn't do any promotion. Um, and that because they hit her with like some something, like not not a CC arbitration, something like that. Yeah, something like that. Um, so she couldn't market it at all, but it still did fine.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

I was gonna say, uh when I was looking at the good reads. When I was looking at the Goodread Good Read Good Reads reviews, a lot of people said that they were reading, they literally had started reading it because Facebook didn't want them to read it, and then they had told their friends to read it because Facebook didn't want people. Like, I think the fact that Facebook put so much emphasis on trying to shut it down, it really backfired, like in a big, big way. Um, it said it hit number one on New York Times bestseller list by late March of 25, and then um it was number three on Amazon the same day that Meta Spokesperson was celebrating the arbitration ruling. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah, I mean, well, and it's also like you've seen how they handled a bunch of other things within the company with like the with just like, you know, things that led to potential civil unrest, essentially. And uh it's just like no surprise that they fumbled this as well.

unknown 30:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:03

And and I will say, one of the first things that we read about in the second half of the book was she gives birth to her second child. She literally almost Oh my god, which can we talk about the names of the My God.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Also, to come back from being almost dead and your husband to be like, Xanthe's doing fine, I'd be like, A N T H E.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

And yeah, and the the thing that's fucked up is that it's not, it clearly was not a name that they had discussed. It was not on their short list because she made such a face at her husband that he then said, and this is a direct quote from the book, um, Xanthe, because she says, Who? When he says, like, Xanthe's doing fine, she goes, Who? And the husband goes, 'um, Xanthy Juliet, middle name for my mother,' but we can change the name, he says hurriedly. Like, it was not, this was not a name that they had discussed. Like, she was not, and I'm like, that's a crazy ass name to give somebody with no heads up. While your wife is like dying, dying in the next room over.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

So she I would have probably just safely named it after my wife. Yep, there you there we go.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Well, I think I'm suggesting that he named it after his mother when his wife could have died. Like it did seem like a little bit self self-remoke. That's a really good point. That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, I mean, we haven't really heard too much about their relationship, but he didn't seem, I'm gonna be honest, like the best partner as well. Because remember when she like goes there after um, maybe it was right after she was fired, she went to meet her family at this like vacation home somewhere in California, and she starts getting in and is attacked by a swarm of bees, and her husband runs out the door, gets in the car, and drives away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

But then he comes back because he had to look at it. Yeah, but still Yeah, no, and the fact that he didn't warn her about the fact that he did not warn her. And then and then she gets in the car and he goes, Oh, whoops, I meant to tell you that.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Like, I don't I feel like he might be the secret villain here.

SPEAKER_05 32:08

I think, yeah, I mean, they're both just bananas. I think they're both just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

I think that that's a great point of like how everything like like I I like sh the stories that she decides to tell are always about other people's shortcomings. And she did not at once tell her a shortcoming she had. And I think that would have made it human for me.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

Yeah. She did say that how like pissed her husband was getting when she was going to like places, like you know, rough places with no security and she was pregnant and stuff like that. But I agree that for the most part, she never talked about like how she might have fallen short as a mom or a wife. Um she almost dies during childbirth, like literally almost dies, to the point where everybody was like, You should have died. She had 35 blood transfusions, she lost the entirety of all of the blood in her body more than three or four times over, like truly died. Um and this is uh a quote. This is a quote. Elliot Joel and others in senior leadership chip in together for a night nanny for a few weeks, which on one level is so thoughtful. It's thousands of dollars that we absolutely couldn't afford. Why can't you afford that? You are a director of Facebook. Yeah, why is her salary so low? I don't think it is. I've done a lot of Googling. And on others, it feels like a message of get back to work. Tom suggests we refuse the gesture, but that feels rude. I'm like.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Of course, Tom suggests we refuse the gesture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:42

Does he want to stay at home and do it? Yeah. And also, I'm sorry, you guys can afford a night nanny. Like, my one of my friends just started being a night nanny. It's it's decent money, but it's not thousands of dollars. I mean, maybe in San Francisco it's more expensive, but like you can find somebody. I don't know. Um, I I really tried hard to find her salary and I couldn't. But she was either grossly I don't think it's public.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Well, I will say I do remember in the first part of the book, her net worth is 65 million, but she also just had a hit best-selling book. Yeah. So um, but I will say in the first half of the book, when she talks about getting the job, she does say that like she feels as though she uh asked for too little in her salary, and that because she was used to like UN jobs. So I I'm sure she was grossly underpaid compared to her counterparts. Cause like also once you're like in a job at a salary, it's like that's just kind of where all your bonuses and stuff come from, that in a percentage manner. I mean, realistically, it'd be nice if they were like, hey, you're making$200,000 less than everyone else. Let's bump you up, you know? Right. Yeah. But I do think I'm sure she was making a ton of money. You're right. Um, but I do think she was probably underpaid compared to some people. Yeah. Not underpaid in I mean, they're making gross amounts of money there.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Yeah. So well, she's also surrounded by people who have like equity from other companies where they're like set. And so when you compare yourself to people who are financially set for the rest of their life, you I I would imagine I would always feel like I don't have enough money.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Speaking of which, it's just reminded me, I got promoted at work. I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

I saw it on LinkedIn. Let's go, Claire. Oh shit, let's go, Claire.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

I uh no big perfect deal or anything, just a senior shrink. Shrink around.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Did it come with a little, did it come with a little bumpy bumpy?

SPEAKER_04 35:48

It did. It did.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Damn, you got to senior quick. Look at you. Well, I do think that you um had been trained in previous positions. To handle the bullshit? To handle a lot of shit. Yep. And I think that you found a place where it's appreciated. She's quick on the keys.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Quick on the keys. And I hope that Sarah and Williams finds a place that she's appreciated. Um and maybe that is as uh this author. So we talked a lot about like, yeah, her her b her.

SPEAKER_05 36:25

Go ahead. Uh sorry. I was gonna, it's kind of she learns so little from the glaring red flags that come stand right in front of her that barrel her over constantly, that she almost died from having a second child and she went on to have a third child. So that's cool. I think that that kind of sums up, in my opinion, a lot about her. That she just likes has this figure it out attitude for better or for worse.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Does it go back to when she was a child and got bit by a shark? Yeah, parents were like, Yeah, suck it up.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

If you almost died at 10, maybe you just don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Yeah, like her parents are like, No, you're fine, you know, like so. I think that part of I do love that she set the book up with that because I do think it kind of explains her approach to a lot of stuff. I would agree with that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

She did actually mention that. Um sorry, uh you got a hair in your mouth? A cat did just walk by, so got that, got that drift. Um yeah, she said that that experience made her feel like she's should have already died, and so anything after that seemed less scary. Because I was even surprised when she had her second baby and kept hemorrhaging. She was still going on trips and she oh yeah, she was going back to work. Yeah. Could we could we talk about actually on one of those trips on the private jet, Cheryl Sandberg asked her to go to the bedroom. Yeah. And I mean, I can only think that means one thing, but am I am I misreading the 10,000 feet in the air subtext?

SPEAKER_03 37:59

No, I I think it's so weird that she asked her to do this, but I also think like it was probably just for some she probably just wanted to do some weird cuddling. I don't know. I have a I have a I have this like thing in my mind where it's like she wouldn't have she wouldn't have crossed that line, but she would have gotten so close to make you confused.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Hmm. I bet if Sarah wanted to, Cheryl Sandberg would have. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

I think Cheryl Sandberg's a little weirdo.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Oh, she's so gross and creepy.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

And I've kind of crazy, but like also to be on a private jet and you're just like, I'm gonna be in my pajamas of the bedroom. Yeah, that means the private jet they were on was huge. Yeah. In fact, there's a bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

I thought it was cool. Not cool, I but I thought it was um representative of hearing like the possibility of being um taken advantage of from like a female position in power. Like I had never heard a word of a story like that to that degree. So it was kind of eye-opening for me.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

Yep. Cheryl said, lean in get your ass in the bedroom. Jesus Christ. Sorry, I shouldn't make light of that.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Um okay, well, so you so you guys were along the same same lines.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Um yeah, it was definitely creepy. Insane. Even if it was just to go sleep in the I would never want to sleep in the same bed as my boss. Gross.

unknown 39:33

No.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

And she's a couple levels of it. On a company route, on a on a um uh wait, what what's it called when tech company together? Offsite. Offsite. Oh yeah. On an off site, I had to share a bedroom with someone. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah. Or a hotel room. Sorry. There was one door. I gave I gave them that was kind of you the room with the door, and I was like, I'll sleep in the big open living room. Ew.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

It was so weird. Um Yeah. Did you at least get to choose your roommate?

SPEAKER_03 40:06

No. It's crazy. They put the two gay people together.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

They said, you kids, you kids have fun in here.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

I will say we were like walking up to our hotel or to our hotel room, and my coworker looked at me and they were like, This feels like a hate crime.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

We just kind of giggled. Intentional. Yeah. Or just crazy.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Well, I will say, I will say, I they were trying to put me with um the coworker who I was like who I worked closest with. Um, but she was very much like, no, I would like to be in my own room. Oh, that's all it took. I don't want to be with that seems easy. Yeah. But it's all, you know, we're talking about how it's like how how she we're like, oh, well, she could have just said no and blah, blah, blah. But like when you're working at these companies, it is you're kind of like, wow, I'm getting so much money. Like, I feel like I don't want to fuck this up because I want to keep getting paid and doing this job that I really like. And it's like a lot easier to kind of just go with some stuff than it is to be like, and honestly, like a lot of the stuff she was talking about, uh, it reminded me a lot of my first job when I worked at a PR agency where it was just like I mean, I was working pretty exclusively with the C-suite, and like just the stuff that was going on in that office, there's a lot. Like, I worked with plenty of Cheryl Sandberg types, plenty. Where it's like one woman that I worked with, like, could not keep an administrative assistant because she was so awful, ruthless, and just hard to work with. But like on the outside, everyone was like, Oh my god, we love this person because blah blah blah. And I'm like, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

This is that is a good, that's a good reminder. Um because yeah, when you're in it, it is always a different, especially when you're starting off. And if this was the first career job post UN, you don't really have that perspective. And she did mention a lot. I think she had money scarcity concerns. I think that was a big driver in keeping her there.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

So way to level set us, Tiff. Yeah, but I would love to know like what Tom did. He was a he was a he was a reporter. Yeah, I'm curious, like, I don't know, because she kept saying, like, oh, like our money, our m like, but I'm like, were you guys like living outside your means?

SPEAKER_05 42:30

Because like yeah, and they did have to move to California, but they moved from New York, so it's not like that's any cheaper.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah. Although then she was like talking about how it was more expensive, which maybe it is, but like I can't unless you were trying to get like a crazy house. Like I don't think it's out of so it's it's like hard, it's hard to figure out exactly how much money was uh playing a role because I do feel like that is a big driver. Like maybe she was making half a million dollars and it's like, oh, I gotta stay here because that's a lot of money, you know.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

I would yeah, I would respect that more than if she was making a hundred K. Yeah, like 200, which is yeah, not very much in Samarit. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Well, yeah, you could go to any tech company with a director title and make more than that.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

So um, I do because well, I I want to talk about the Trump campaign because I that was my favorite part of the second half. Oh, yeah. She talked about how Trump used, like, she got a little bit more specific about how Trump was able to use Facebook to win in 2016. 16. Yeah. Yep. And um, especially with like what's going on right now with Trump, is like Trump is such a dumb, idiot, stupid person, but he does surround himself with really smart people. And whether or not he listens to them all the time.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Wow, I bet this is so real life censorship.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

Oh, they're right. Can you say that again? You were crazy. Oh yep. It will go double in my recording, but that's okay. Yep. Um, Trump is a really dumb person. Did you guys hear that? And then, but he surrounds himself with really smart people. And that I think we saw a really good example of that in like the book.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Um, because didn't at one point Cheryl Sandberg was like, Well, can we hire the person that figured out how to do that?

SPEAKER_05 44:22

They literally tried to poach, but basically they took like Facebook profiles and then with like cookie tracking and like internet tracking. Well, they used Facebook's tools. Yeah, but I think they also Yeah, but I think Facebook has built-in things that also, or maybe they just were able to match. But they basically charted all kinds of like internet behaviors, so like gun registrations, photo registrations, shopping history, websites they visit, like all kinds of stuff, where they live, when they last voted. They took that database and matched it with like custom audience lists in Facebook and matched them together and with their Facebook profiles.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Thousands of iterations of ads to just target certain audiences.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

Yeah. And so they did this like, and then they also did a something they call it, I think, a look-alike audience, where it's like the three of us match, you know, we're like 30-year-old Democrat queer women. So it's like, let's find common qualities of us and match them with common qualities of other people, and then we can reasonably say that like an ad that would do well with these three, like us three, would do well with this other like look alike. So that way, if I think they used like a pickup truck example, um, where it was like if if people liked a certain kind of pickup truck, they would find other people who also liked the same pickup truck and like show them the same ad. And so it was like this really, really, really targeted strategy. Ad campaign. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yep. Um was coined like the persuadables, like they identified a candidate pool of people who were on the fence and then they recognized what like themes, like you know, women, like mothers, they would target, like, oh, we're gonna give you like house care or home care, and like this people aren't. But I I think there's a documentary out there as well to talk about how they leverage like the persuadable um group of people. It's crazy to think that because I always thought that Trump's rise to fame as president came from the evangelical um Jerry Falwell Jr. when his Cuck scandal broke and they had the same lawyer, and then Jerry Falwell was like he endorsed Trump and he endorsed him at Liberty University. And so I always thought that Trump's prominence came from like that scandal trying to be hidden. Um but if you have that evangelic evangelical leader in your back pocket and you have Facebook's algorithm in your back pocket, and you have people who like naturally just want to believe what they want to believe, not necessarily facts. It's like where do we where do we go from here? Like, I don't know how to ever balance balance back the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

I don't think it ever will.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

I mean, especially like 10 years later, we gotta start using the algorithm to your advantage. Yeah. I'm telling you. I don't shop anymore. I go to Google, I type in shorts. Shorts for queer women like me. Yes. And then I go, I close Instagram, I go back to Instagram, I start going through Instagram stories, I'm getting all the ads I want to see. I'm finding brands I've never seen before. Brands that don't come up on Google. They come up on my Instagram ads because they're targeting me. Listen, we should do some targeted ads for our podcast. We would get some listen, like targeted ads are so so effective. Like, that's a lot of what I do. It's coming from that. It's very easy, and it's very easy to access and use, and like it's very like we would be able to like quickly be like, yes, queer women who are 30, let's spend a hundred dollars and reach a hundred thousand people.

SPEAKER_05 48:27

Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Like it's it's pretty crazy. It's pretty cheap. Yeah. That's the other thing.

SPEAKER_05 48:33

Yeah, because I mean you multiply this by you know the billions of people across the various meta platforms.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Well, and you only pay for like people that click on it or something. Like, there's like you don't pay necessarily for for views. For views. That makes sense. Like you're paying for like interaction. Well, at least last time I kind of used it, but yeah, engagement. But I don't know. Maybe it's like if someone looks at it for three seconds, you pay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

But it's crazy. Those those the algorithms, the algorithms are all built just to help people sell ads. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's how they make money. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Um I love those videos where it's like um maybe uh if if you and Amy, when you guys are ready to uh take it to the next level, when like one person in the relationship whispers to the phone, engagement rings, um, honeymoons. Um and then and then that person starts getting all the ads for like whatever their spouse wants. Those videos always crack me.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

Yeah, I'm gonna go to I'm gonna go on Amy's phone and Google engagement rings so that she just starts getting some ads.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Alright, I got some questions for you guys. Excuse me. Um, whatever's going around, I hope you guys don't have it. Um so did anybody Google what a dirty Sanchez is? Yes. Yes. All right. So this was something that um the author's boss kept like bringing up to her about it.

SPEAKER_05 50:11

This is the one, this is the one paper trail she had, is he emailed it to her.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

Yeah, because she she had to take the the US uh citizen test or something. And he said, I hope they ask the dirty Sanchez question.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

And so what is it? Because I did not.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Courtney? I forget. I also forget, but it's like something to do with It's something with poop pooping and sex. Uh I think you you poop and it is a mustache for Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:42

Uh penis smearing fecal matter on a partner's upper lip.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

Oh my god. Something you and Megan are into. You know, I know. They just don't call it that.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

But I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go back. I'm gonna have to go back to the books. Um Wow. People sometimes when I hear what things like it just opens my mind to like something I had never considered.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Uh yeah. Wow, I love that you're open-minded about that.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_05 51:14

But McClare and Megan do in the privacy of their own home.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

It's their business and their business only.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

That's why that's why we live out of the country. Nobody comes knocking on these doors.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

They got too many complaints from Ben next door at the duplex. They said we gotta we gotta move out to Marysville.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Oh, what a great, what a great apartment that was. That's funny that you guys uh Googled that one. Okay, and then another thing I wanted to bring up. Well, I You're better than me. Yeah. No, no, this isn't. It's just I mean, she made it look anyways, okay, anyways. Um there's like two types of rule followers. There's the people who she's like, you know, it's terrible, don't Google it. And it makes people want to Google it. And um, alright, I'm gonna pivot to my next thing. So she let's talk about how she ends the book with that. Um, what was the country where there was a lot of um unrest?

SPEAKER_03 52:22

Was it Myanmar or no? It was um oh shoot. Yeah, there was like the a lot of hate speech. A lot of hate speech uh against Muslims, I think.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah, and she dropped the the Muslim version of the N-word like three or four times throughout the book. Yes, and every time it made me uncomfortable. And I was reflecting, like, is it it is it just because like we've been conditioned in our society to not use the N-word? Um and so like I couldn't understand myself to know like, is it just like I've been conditioned that we don't say words like this and you're equ equating that word to this, or like is there an appropriate use case to keep dropping this word? But I was curious, like, how did you guys feel about her? Um Yeah, I think the fact And maybe I'm like missing sorry, Courtney, I just like maybe I'm missing the point because like obviously this woman has gone through so much, and like I all the people you've dealt with have been shitty, and so I am like bringing up your decisions. Um, but these are just the things that stick out to me. So that's all I want to copy out with.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

Yeah. Well, I think that it's interesting because I had never heard that word before. So it didn't, it didn't have a ton of meaning to me because like I had just never heard it before, so I think I just kind of read it without thinking too much about it.

SPEAKER_05 53:45

And I think that's probably what her editors would have like she probably said, How do I handle this? And the editors probably said, you know, if like your audience is gonna be primarily whoever, you know, it's like it's about that emotional reaction, and I think how you use it and like are you using it in a derogatory way? Are you not? I do think I do think context is very important.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

Context is important.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

I don't think she needed to say it more than once. The fact that she do agree called that the n-word didn't spell that one out, which is totally fair, and then used the like Muslim version of that word. I feel like she could have been like the first letter with an X or something, yeah. Yeah, the K word. I think she could have called it from then on, like just to kind of be in the same we all because at that point we all would have like us, the audience, we would have exactly and then I think it would have put more weight on the word, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Because I think for me seeing it over and over again, I was just like, okay, yeah, that's that's that word.

SPEAKER_05 54:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 54:49

Yeah. And then um, I do think that that whole end of the book, like that whole part, was crazy. There was um oh man, I don't think I'm gonna explain this properly. But basically, there was like there were posts from they were in a different language, and they had I can't remember what country it was.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

It was Myanmar.

SPEAKER_05 55:12

Oh, it was Myanmar? I think so. And they only had one person in the entire company that spoke that language. He lived in Ireland and he was a contractor, so he was like, you know, he was not side-gating. He's not salaried yet. And um they like have this post that is like literally causing riots in the cities uh and or in the city, and um they refused to like take it down until they could get a hold of this contractor. And the contractor's dragging his feet, he's like out and about, he doesn't have his laptop, he doesn't have white, like whatever the reasoning is, he's just like, and I'm like, you guys really can't figure something else out, or just take the whole fucking thing down, figure it out later.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

This this gives me war flashbacks to when I worked at the PR agency, and I'm so serious. It's just like anytime there was like any simple decision where you're like, this needs to happen, it had to go through like 17 channels, and you're and there's always someone asking too many questions, there's always someone like overthinking it, and it's like, guys, we need crazy. Like it's like this. I was reading this and I was like, just it was like my skin was crawling. I'm like, I know the feeling where you just have to get something done, and it's like you're waiting on this thing and this person and this person, and insane. Insane. But obviously, this is much different because it's like truly like people are dying. That's the other thing. It's like people are dying, and they're like waiting on this dude with who's like, I don't have my laptop with me, sorry. Yeah, like and it's like you can't just take it down because you see what it's doing, like it's crazy. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 56:56

Yep, and you can't even Google translate because the way that these characters get encoded, it's like such a different language. Yeah, the way that the characters encoded is different, so it's not like a one-to-one where you can just, you know, punch it into Google and and translate it, which is also crazy. Yeah. I'm like, maybe we should have more than one guy on this. Maybe we should have maybe, maybe five. Yeah. Um, and I think the other thing that I do want to talk about before we run out of time is because I do think this book really well, for me, really well highlights like we all know Mark is a shitty person, but like just how shitty this group of people is is like actually makes me kind of sick. So they're trying to get into China, like two-thirds of the way through the book, maybe. Um, and Sarah gets put on like the China project, and like no matter what, we we need to get into China, blah blah blah blah blah. The Chinese government has really strict, um or like really like cut and dry needs for what they want Facebook to give them in order to allow Facebook in, and it's basically spyware. Like, it's literally just like we need to be able to have full access to what people are saying, private messages, public posts, anything. We're like, we want access to all of it. And then so she's reading this document from um like it's an internal memo, it's a Facebook memo. They're typing like pros and cons and like things that they need to do. And I highlighted this. It's uh this is again, this is an internal Facebook memo, and it says like one of the reasons not to go with China. Facebook employees will be responsible for user data responses that could lead to death, torture, and incarceration. So they know it, they fully know it, that like if we allow China what they want, then Facebook you like our employees at Facebook are gonna have to comb through and start flagging stuff for China, and then China's gonna turn around and like kill, torture, and jail these people. And we know that, and we don't fucking care. Oh my god. I mean, that really like it really made me sad. Um, just at how like you people have all the money in the world. You're like Mark Zuckerberg, and I don't remember this at all. You guys tell me if you do. Mark Zuckerberg, after Trump won the election in 2016 and Mark realized he did it with Facebook, Mark was like, he like got bored with Facebook for a little bit and like went on a press tour. And they Sarah was worried he was gonna run for president. Because he's just like he's got everything he could ever possibly want. He's got all the money, he's got all the accolades, everybody in the world knows who he is. Like, and he's bored with it because of course we all get bored with whatever we're doing if you do it for long enough. So, like, why are we still trying to like just totally pivot, brother? Do something else. Like, thank God he didn't run for president. But let's actually let him stay at Facebook.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

I don't want him to pivot.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

I don't know. Um that that press tour and that presidency desire came out of a convo he had with uh Obama, and Obama called him out and said, like, your like Facebook is really um destructive, and these are like the consequences, and you need to take these things seriously. Because Mark has a ha habit of in these press in these speeches making false promises, making false commitments, or just saying like, like, yeah, we're gonna do our best, but then like what does the best really mean? Like Sarah calls that out a lot, that like they're just empty words. Um I was surprised that he he won he went there. And I think I mean I wonder if like part of how how we like structure government I don't know, it just it it just becomes like really interesting when we think about like we the people. You know, when that was founded 250 years ago, there weren't these like propaganda machines that could like impact to the degree they are, and now with this wave of like AI and like predictive modeling, and like we're all kind of starting to use these to different degrees, like Chat GPT or Copilot. We're all gonna start thinking the same way. Like if you're if you're putting in a prompt like, hey, how to do this, like you're getting the same response back. Like it's going to be conditioning us. We're relying on the people who are building these models to do the right thing and make sure that they're like ethically balanced, that they're not biased. All of my words to say, like, I just I don't see I just don't see how our current like structure of voting and technology is going to like because I feel like it's becoming even like I'm not finishing my thoughts. It's just so overwhelming to think about. Because even with all of these efforts the current administration has done to like open up this tech branch with all like like meta and um open AI and like Doge coming in and just like having access to databases, like I think it's becoming more and more apparent that it's easy to like rig elections or like use tech to do bad things or like delete the data you don't want and like manipulate and you have just like this what 20 billionaires that have the same amount of wealth as like half the global population. Like I just I don't see how the good guys are gonna win, quote unquote, when you can have people like reality TV star like Trump or a fucking movie star like Arnold Schwarzenegger or uh a CEO like Mark Zuckerberg who want to go for these really powerful positions and we're all just like dispensable at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

Yeah. I mean, I think it's a numbers, it's strength in numbers, and uh that's overly optimistic, certainly, but I do think that's like kind of the only answer. Is it's like we all are like, oh, like eventually I would hope that a lot of the Trump supporters that voted for him because of the economy or whatever realize like, oh, that's he doesn't actually care about us. Is it is it far-fetched? Is it gonna happen? Is it far fetched? Yes, is it gonna happen? Who knows? But I mean that's kind of the only way, in my in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

Uh wait thing to no one knows the answer. So true. I just yeah, I don't know what we're supposed to do. So are you guys gonna get off Facebook? I've stopped using Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Oh, that's big.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:57

Good on you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

I don't use Facebook except for for Marketplace, and I I did use Facebook Marketplace for my for moving, but that feels like a good community-based thing that has come out of Facebook. That feels like an in-person community-based thing. I don't use Facebook for anything other than Marketplace, honestly. Like I'm not on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:18

But we all use Instagram, and it's all the same thing. As you just said about the advertising. Yeah. Um, yeah. Cause they, I mean, there's that whole bit about how they advertise the teenagers and they target on things like depression and like yeah, that's crazy. Really, really sad. Body confidence, like all that stuff. That really um so I think it almost feels like any more Instagram's worse. I guess it depends on what we're talking about. If we're talking about like children's mental health, Instagram's worse. If we're talking about boomers voting for Trump, Facebook's worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

They gotta be. It's tough. It's tough because it's also like, but also that's how I mean look at Zoran Mandami. Like, that's how he ran his campaign was doing a bunch of social stuff. So like True. I mean, it it it has everything has positive and negative connotations. Everything's a trade-off. Yeah, yeah, because like it is really good for grassroot campaigns as well. Like it's very easy for that stuff to spread just as much, just as easy as it is for the bad stuff to spread, you know. Like, unfortunately. I do think that there are some positive and good uses for it. And and originally that's what why Sarah wanted to go to Facebook, because she saw all the positive ways that it could influence elections and like people without voices can be heard and like stuff like that. Like, I think that that's really important. And like Internet for All, I think that's actually a very important. Important thing. Like, I think I do think everyone should be connected to the internet. Um. And like I just think they're doing it in the complete obviously. It just shouldn't be all the complete wrong reasons. It should not be, it should not be you get a you get internet, but you get but you it's Facebook. No web browser, you get Facebook. Like that's obviously absolutely insane. Yeah. But um I do think like they're so like, yeah, it's very easy to focus on the bad stuff, in my opinion. I think that that's more sensational. It's more, it's like we're humans, we love to gossip and we love drama. Like, I think that the negative stuff is like feeds that part of us, like our innate nature. But I do think there's so much good that comes out of it as well. And like I think it's it's easy to lose sight of that sometimes. Especially because like we're on the good side of it, right? So it's like, well, all we can think is like the bad stuff, but if you're on the bad side of it, you think that our stuff is the bad stuff. So it's like it's all perspective, yeah. It's all perspective and context. I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

And she did give a lot of context this book. I'm curious. There's this woman, young woman, who's suing Meta for um like a di uh addictive like marketing as a child and like making her addicted and leading to mental health issues. And I wonder if they're gonna use this book as a reference point to like Mark's testimony on it. Because you can't you can't go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just gonna say, like, if Mark Zuckerberg's like, oh well, like we didn't know, or like, oh, we tried our best, or oh, you know, we put these guardrails in place, or oh okay, I'll be done. Uh he has this book where it's like the the those are lies based on you know this person. So then maybe it becomes like a credibility thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:51

Yeah, I don't think they can use this as fact because it's one person's account, and I think the only reason I will go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

Go ahead. I was gonna say, I will say I was Googling on Reddit, right? Because people a lot of people have similar thoughts to Claire, where it's like, well, she didn't take any accountability, blah blah blah. However, she has not been sued for libel.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:11

Yeah, she's gotten$50,000 lines out the ass for like disparaging claims.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

But yeah, exactly. But she has not been sued for libel, which is a big sign that some of it has some truth to it. I agree.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:26

I will say, maybe as my like final thought on the book, I don't know. If she's gonna get fired for like raising the alarm, I am deeply disappointed that it's like for like what it was, which is sexual assault, which is a very it's sorry, sexual not assault because she was harassment, which is a huge deal and like absolutely should, but I would have liked if sh and obviously like this was I don't know, 2017, so it's been a long time ago. Way too late to change it. I'm not her. I don't know how hard it was to be her, but like it would have been, I think, a lot more damning for the company if she would have just like if she's gonna put her head down and work and like try to make a case against them, do it. And make a case against everything. Start leaking, start leaking this shit. Like, why didn't you go if you're upset with Facebook enough to like raise the alarm bells at your shitty employer, like your shitty boss who's making gross comments about your like post-pregnancy body? Oh yeah. Why is that enough to raise a flag? But like we're gonna we're gonna allow Facebook employees to give China like this act, like why is that not enough? Or what's going on in Myanmar? Why is that not enough? Or like the advertise the way that we advertise for like teenagers and we like zone in on their like body dysmorphia. Why is that not enough? Like, I it to for her to like make a bigger case on all of this and blow the whistle while she was inside would have been really cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

And like do you think that's though that do you think though that maybe because I get what you're saying, but I do think that they would have maybe been able to just kind of squash it before it became something, and I almost feel like having a tell-all book is like much more sensational in a way that it became a New York Times bestseller, it got to more eyes and more stuff like that. So, like I agree that like you know, looking back, you're like, you're you're reading this. This woman is painting herself as a hero, obviously. Like, but who wouldn't if you're writing a book uh about it, you know? Yeah, and like, especially if you're trying not to be implicated if this is gonna have a bunch of legal ramifications, which it might, you know, that's fair. Like you might be trying to keep yourself out of legal trouble by being like, Yeah, you know, and I've thought, well, whatever. But anyways, I do think that writing a book is maybe more a more effective way to get all of this stuff out because it has the potential to become what is like a sensationalized piece of media in a sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:19

Totally. But my my pushback on that is we're seven, eight years later, and like this stuff has been going on for the last seven and eight years, and we're just now finding out about it. So, yes and no. Um, yes and no. But yeah, I think that's I think that's a fair point. Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

I don't think she had the authority at the time. Like, I think now she's created the space to have the authority. My biggest question is like, why haven't you sued Facebook for false firing or like wrongful firing? Like that's just a little bit of a loose end.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

I agree, but I just feel like she has been in there. She's worked with the Facebook lawyers a lot. Like she's probably just like, I'm not gonna get anywhere with that. It's just gonna cost me a lot of money. Yeah. But also, like, I could sue any of my companies for false firing. It's just like Because when you go, you have to go through discovery.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Like, that's why a lot of people are saying that Trump hasn't um sued people for saying he's in the Epstein files, because then there'd be discovery and then like things would be exposed. And so there is like yes, Facebook itself might be corrupt, but like you're in a legal system outside of Facebook, too. Like if that's I can find the reason, right? Because of I don't know. I guess they did like fuck her performance reviews too.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:39

Well, and she went to them to be like I have a sexual harassment claim, and they were like, nothing was wrong. They like did it and they were like, Nope, we didn't find any wrongdoing. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

But you mean within like a week exposed, she was like, you know, and I'm not the only one here. There's this whole committee, like FCC or something. Like she brought up this committee of women who were like upset and like I guess I don't know, it's just like something about this is like there has to be, if it if it how you're describing it, right? There has to be there has to be something where a like on a non-biased scale, somebody could be like, Yes, you were a recipient of sexual harassment, or yes, you were fac wrongfully terminated.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:29

Or if there's not, I mean, there there is in a perfectly just world, but I think here money and power can kind of and if that is the case, I think I would still like I wish she would have addressed that a little bit more then.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:46

You know what I mean? Like I think that that's a reasonable answer, is just like I can't, and it's because of XYZ. I wish I kind of wish she would have spelled that out because I do think that there's a lot. And again, we're only getting her side of it, she's gonna paint herself in the most positive light, etc. But like they're just like I'm just kind of like missing that last little piece of like, huh? What do you mean? Like you got fired for this and you didn't have a paper trail. Like I just I just kind of I feel like I'm missing some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:14

So doesn't mean I didn't really enjoy the book because I did, but there was just a paper trail is so much easier said than done though. Like the the people above her knew that, and that's why they were pulling her into meetings versus sending her emails. Because like you could send an email and be like, just as we discussed, blah blah blah blah blah and blah, right? Yeah, but then that could still they would spin that and be like, well, we don't know that you actually talked about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:40

Well, I but I think that that's the whole point of putting that stuff in writing is like, hey, Elliot, I just wanted to recap our meeting. Here's what we talked about, and then if if that's not right, then Elliot, it's on the city.

unknown 1:14:52

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:52

I just feel like I yeah, no, I I I agree with you, but I just feel like it's ineffective, like people are gonna spin it.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:00

But then there's I'm just saying, then there's a paper trail. I don't know. Maybe I'm oversimplifying.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:05

That we are underestimating the power and greed. I think you're right.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:10

I think you're right. Like the way to do it. But I wish she would explain that. I wish she would have explained that. That's all. What more from you, Sarah? No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

You did great. She did a great job. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you ever listen to this, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

I mean, you do have to remember it is literally like the most powerful company on the planet. It is, it is, it is so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:32

They're clearly willing to do literally anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

Literally anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:35

Yeah, so you're right. You're right.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

I mean, the fact that this stuff has not come out before this is kind of crazy. I agree.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:42

Where have they tried and they got to your point if it got squashed?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

So that's why I'm just like, it's very interesting. Like, yeah. There's no she's not the only one seeing this, so it's like it's it is crazy that none of this has come out. Yeah, I agree. You know, like no one, no one in that company. There's so many people, no one has leaked any of that. That's crazy. Insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:03

Well, they also kind of control the platforms that was misinformation.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:09

Yeah, so it's like, yeah, it's it's crazy. I'm sure they have flags. They can just censor anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

Um, I just want to give a shout out to Good Trouble. Um, he's on Instagram. He's a political activist. He's currently being censored. Um, Instagram isn't showing him to anybody who doesn't currently follow him. Goodtrouble.tt. Y'all should follow him if you don't already. Love it. Um Shall we lead into rankings? How do we rank? Let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:40

Claire, you want to kick us off? Since we all we do have a habit of losing Claire in the second half. Actually, we lose all of us in the second half, but I think that this conversation's been enlightening.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:48

I think coming in today I would probably set a three, but I'm gonna bump it to a four because I recognize that I probably have my own bias towards like reading this book and putting too much pressure on the author to fit this box in my head of how I think an author should fit. Totally. She exposed a shit ton, and um she could have not. And so, Sarah, I give you a lot of kudos for putting yourself out there. Uh so yeah, I will recommend reading it. I'd recommend qu like reflecting on which parts stick out. Obviously, the gossipy parts were huge for me. Like, Cheryl wants to sleep with you. Um But there was there was a lot of secrets that she didn't have to share, and she did. And so I'm thankful for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:33

Love it for Tiff. I'm going five.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:36

Oh, that is that is our first five of the club. First five of the club.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:43

I really enjoyed this book a lot, and I think a lot of people should read it. Yeah, it's very interesting. I also just like I feel like I've just in no it's you cannot compare jobs, but I do feel like I've just had a very similar like work situation where it's just so like everyone's drinking the Kool-Aid, but also bad stuff is going on, and also you're just working with these people that are like catty, but like not in a way that you could really raise the it to HR. And I've also like left a job and sent stuff to HR and been like, this is how sorry, the CEO is acting crazy, and these are the reasons why. Here are screenshots of stuff, and they just did absolutely nothing. Yeah. So I think that I have I have a soft spot in my heart because that those are at companies that have literally no power and don't know anything. So like I just am like, I kind of get a little bit of where she's coming out from. Do I think she could have taken some accountability? Yes, a little bit more. But I still think it was a great book.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:57

Tiff, thank you for keeping us in check. That's good. Yeah, that's good. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

Yep, yeah. You're right. Um I can see. Sorry, Courtney. No get in there. No, no. Oh, I just can say I can see because if you're ambitious, she's ambitious, and there's nothing that stops an ambitious person more than people who are just putting obstacles in your way that don't add value to your ambition.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:20

That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:21

Yeah. So I could see the the relativeness. Um okay, Courtney.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:25

Hey, I'm going four five.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:27

Um highest ranking for Courtney, too.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:31

Yeah. Wow. And uh I really it was like it was really enjoyable to read. Like it was just a fun book. I like kind of like you said, Tiff flew through it, like just really interesting in in bad ways, which sucks. But like, yeah, nonetheless, great read. Highly recommend it. Um yeah. And then I think the only reason I'm not giving it a five, I don't know that it's like the best book I've ever read, but I did really enjoy it. So um that brings the average for this book to a four-five, which is our which is our highest we've ever had. Wow, and goodness. A PR. I'm gonna have to make uh an Instagram graphic for the stars. I've forgot to do that for the last handful of books. I'll have so many stars to make on Canva. Um I also am like this is one where I um was gonna read this on my own, but like I was like, this will be way more fun to read if I have people to talk to about it. So thanks for reading it with me, guys. It was so fun to talk about. Totally. Makes a great book club book. Which, speaking of book club books, what do we have next? Yes, what's our next book, Claire?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

What do we got next?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:48

Um there we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

Wait, say it again. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

I just talked to everyone of Schrdinger's cat.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:56

Oh, in search of Schrdinger's cat.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:59

Um Jesus Christ, you sorry gang. Okay, Claire, you have the mic.

unknown 1:21:12

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:14

She's really using the mic.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:15

Courtney, stop it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:17

Sorry ones. Sorry, guys. Sorry. Um I picked this book because um it dabbles with quantum physics, quantum mechanics, like those physics.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:40

Is it physics or mechanics?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

It's the physical mechanisms. Yep, those things.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

Do you know anything about it?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Um so Shotangre's cat is like the cat that's like alive and dead at the same time. Um and so it's gonna be a mind fuck. I think it's like gonna bring in some quantum stuff, and it's just I've been I've been really liking explaining life through the lens of quantum physics. Um, it makes sense for my brains. Okay. Your brains. My brains. All three of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:11

We're gonna have one and doesn't.

unknown 1:22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:15

Uh Courtney and Zever just projections of my timeline. They are just secondary characters. I kind of like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

Well, that sounds like something a narcissist would say.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Yeah, I like it. It takes a lot to go over. I'm happy to be, I'm happy to be Claire's second brain.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:30

Claire has three brain cells. It's us.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

Yes, all of you. Um so yeah, I'm uh that's that's that. It's not just a book about a cat. Corny, get a new book so it doesn't like rob the experience. Yeah. Smelling it. I think I'm gonna have to.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:44

I think I'm gonna have to. I think I wait, I think I have it right here.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:49

We're not gonna be able to smell it through the screen though. Well, you can see how old it is. Oh wow. Oh, yeah. Uh no, I have not started it. I just ordered it though. But I'm gonna have 16 days to get through it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:04

Oh, this is gonna be your good book. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:08

Oh, fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

That's fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:10

Okay, it's literally like this is a deep book to be reading on vacation.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:15

Okay, I don't have it's it's better to be reading it on vacation. Look at this graph.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:19

There's graphs in here. Two electrons interact by the exchange of a photon. I'm just saying. That's a that's not a beach read. That's a beach read for me. Because you're so smart.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

Well, I just I'm not gonna be working. I'm gonna have to stimulate my brain. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:38

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:39

I am excited. This book smells I gotta put it down.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:45

Claire, have you ever taken a physics class? Yeah, I loved it. Okay. Um I took like one in college, but it was like physics for like it was just about electricity.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mine was um we like made cars go. Like we made cars and then we had to figure out how to make them go the furthest. And honestly, physics is so unsexy when you're a high school student, but as an adult, like physics is probably the one class I wish I would have leaned into more.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:13

Yeah.

unknown 1:24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:15

For me, it was French. That's what you wish you would have leaned into more. Claire, you should take an adult physics class. Have you guys heard of Tap and Learns? No. So they're like um an hour at like uh like a place where you can get beer. And so you like have like you pour beers and then you have like a lecturer come in, and like that, instead of like trivia one night, it'll be like a learning lesson on a random topic.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:42

Oh my god, Claire, if there are any in Columbus, Claire, you should be making some with your mobile bar. I know.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:48

Oh my god, that's a good idea because you guys could host it at your house. You have enough space.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:52

I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:54

Yeah, but then people gotta drive there and then drive.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:56

Oh yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:57

We'll do it at um. We'll do like a camp at eight. Oh, okay. Or we could do it in the city. Courtney, your mom's house.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

Everybody come to Westerville? Suze does have to provide the alcohol based on her uh insurance license. True. True.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

Amazing. All right, fellas. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:17

It has been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:18

Have so much fun in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

Oh my god. I'm sure I'll be insufferable on Instagram. Oh, I can't follow me at underscore party blonde underscore.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:27

Which we got a fresh we got a fresh party for that blonde. Or a fresh blonde for the party. It's looking good. Fresh blonde for the party.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:35

Yeah, it looks good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:37

Did we go more blonde this time?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:39

No, it looks like it, but it just um it actually is like less blonde, so it might blend in a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:49

But I like it. I think it looks good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:51

It does.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:52

She needs Amy to get in there with a hotel fork and tone it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:57

No, it's it's been toned. That was a reference to our last boys' weekend. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:02

Do you know where we're going? Can you announce it? No, I haven't I haven't really thought about it yet. You've been planning a short list. A more trip.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:09

Honestly, I'll probably think about it in Vietnam because I I have so many life admin things that I'm gonna crank through in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:16

Do you would you be willing to give us a shortlist when you have it?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:20

Or do you want to? No, okay. No, I'm just gonna pick. Okay. Because you guys are gonna give too many opinions.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:24

No, I would never. Um when you do tell us, will you tell us what what was a short list?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:30

Maybe. Can you pick, but still give us a short list? Because I just like options. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:35

I just like to know what you're thinking. I don't Okay, but I'm picking, you guys don't get a say in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:40

You don't, but I'm gonna get excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:46

I'm so excited. Like if you gun to your head right now, you had to pick where are we going?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:51

I'm not telling you. Gun to your head. There's a gun to your head. You don't have a choice. There's a gun to your head. There's a gun to your head. Where are we going? Westfield, Ohio. Okay, Chicago, Illinois.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:03

No, because it's not my year to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:04

New Mexico.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:06

Ooh. Tiff and I gone back to Santa Fe.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:09

Oh god. We should I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:12

This time with a different thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:13

That place has bad juju.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:17

Good times. Okay. Bye.