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What “von Willebrand Disease” Names
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Imagine for a second a doctor giving you a medication that is specifically designed to stop you from bleeding. You trust them, obviously, you take it, and instead of helping, it completely destroys your body's ability to clot.
SPEAKER_00Right, which is just terrifying.
SPEAKER_02It is terrifying. And that scenario isn't some malicious medical error, and it doesn't happen because someone, you know, mixed up two different pills in a pharmacy.
SPEAKER_00No, not at all.
SPEAKER_02It happens because of a single misleading label written on a patient's medical chart.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Yeah. And it is a perfect example of what happens when we confuse a convenient medical name for the actual chaotic biology happening inside a human body. I mean, we love to put things in neat little boxes, but biology actively resists being boxed.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell, which is exactly our mission for you today. Welcome to today's deep dive. We are exploring how medical labels can create this beautiful, comforting illusion of unity while masking incredibly complex, frankly, messy realities underneath.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's a fascinating topic.
SPEAKER_02It really is. And we're doing this by unpacking a really phenomenal piece of source material. We're looking at an essay and a detailed reasoning map by William Ayrd, and it's titled What Von Willebrand Disease Names.
SPEAKER_00And this is such a vital exercise for you listening, regardless of your background, really, whether you are a medical professional trying to hone your clinical reasoning or a patient navigating the healthcare system, or honestly just a curious learner.
SPEAKER_02Right. Because we all deal with the medical system eventually.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Because grasping this gap, the space between a neat medical label and the sprawling biological reality, it's one of the most important exercises in critical thinking you can do. Labels are just tools, they aren't the absolute truth.
SPEAKER_02Okay, let's unpack this because the core paradox of Aird's text grabbed me immediately.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_02The name von Willebrand disease is singular. It sounds like one distinct thing, you know, like a broken arm or strep throat. But the biology underneath it is entirely plural. The author calls it a diagnostic family. So to even understand the label, we first have to understand the main character of this biological drama, which is von Willebrand factor, or VWF for short.
SPEAKER_00Right. We have to start with the protein itself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, before we get into the disease, what actually is this stuff? Because the text keeps throwing around the phrase multimeric glycoprotein. And honestly, that just sounds like a weird industrial plastic to me.
SPEAKER_00It really does sound like plastic, but you can think of a multimeric glycoprotein sort of like a biological chain link fence.
SPEAKER_02Okay. A chain link fence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so multimeric just means it is made of many smaller, identical building blocks that are linked together into these massive sticky chains. Oh, I see. And these sprawling chains are manufactured by the endothelial cells. Those are the cells that line the inside of your blood vessels as well as inside your bone marrow.
SPEAKER_02So we have these massive sticky chains hanging out in our blood vessels. I'm trying to picture the environment they are operating in because blood isn't just, you know, sitting there.
SPEAKER_00No, it's moving fast.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's rushing through the body at high pressure. It's like a raging river.
SPEAKER_00That raging river creates immense physical sheer force. And that is exactly where von Willebrand factor goes to work. It actually has three distinct jobs in that hostile environment.
SPEAKER_02Okay, what's the first one?
SPEAKER_00First, it acts as a molecular anchor. So it allows platelets to adhere to the vessel wall even when the sheer force of the blood is actively trying to wash them away.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00And the second second, it grabs onto other platelets to build up a plug whenever there is a leak or an injury.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And third, it acts as a protective carrier for another vital clotting protein called factor eight, basically keeping it from being destroyed in the bloodstream.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so is it helpful to think of VWF as both the molecular glue that patches a leak in the pipe and the protective scaffolding for the other repair materials floating in the water?
SPEAKER_00That is exactly the way to visualize it. It is the glue and the scaffolding. And the disease we are talking about today occurs when that glue or scaffolding fails.
SPEAKER_02Meaning something goes wrong with the protein itself?
SPEAKER_00Right. The quantity, the structure, the function, or the survival of that protein is somehow impaired.
SPEAKER_02But this is where I start getting a bit confused. If von Willebrand factor is doing all these completely different jobs, you know, glue, scaffolding, sheer force resistance, how does the disease actually manifest?
SPEAKER_00That is a big question.
SPEAKER_02Right. Like if someone has von Willebrand disease on their tart, what exactly is failing inside their body?
SPEAKER_00What's fascinating here is that there is no single answer to that question. The author describes this using a concept called internal heterogeneity.
SPEAKER_02Internal heterogeneity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it basically means there is a multitude of completely different failure modes hiding inside that one singular disease name.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_00For some patients, the factory floor is just slow. Their bodies produce totally normal von Willebrand factor, but just not enough of it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00For other patients, they produce plenty of it. But the structure of that chain link fence is mangled and dysfunctional.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell, So the glue is there, but it's just not sticky.
SPEAKER_00Precisely. And then there are patients whose bodies produce it perfectly, it works perfectly, but their immune system or cleanance mechanisms sweep it out of their bloodstream way too fast.
SPEAKER_02So it's gone before it can do its job.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And of course, some patients produce almost none at all.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell So you could literally have a waiting room full of people who all technically have Von Willebrand disease on their charts, but biologically their bodies are failing in completely unrelated ways.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell They are related only in the sense that they involve the same protein, but the mechanisms are fundamentally different.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which means the way you treat them has to be fundamentally different.
SPEAKER_02Here's where it gets really interesting for me because when you read about the medical field breaking diseases down into these microscopic subclassifications like type 1, type 2A, type 2B, it is so easy to dismiss that as academic hair splitting.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02It feels like something invented just to torture medical students on board exams. But reading Arid's essay, it becomes wildly apparent that getting the subtype wrong isn't just an academic error. It could actively harm the patient, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, very much so.
SPEAKER_02Like the medication scenario we talked about at the very beginning of the deep dive.
SPEAKER_00It is the farthest thing from academic hair splitting. To understand why that medication scenario happens, we really have to look at the subtypes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00So type one is the most common. It is simply a partial quantitative deficiency. You just don't have enough of the protein.
SPEAKER_02Pretty straightforward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And the standard, highly effective treatment for type one is often a medication called desmopressin.
SPEAKER_02And from what I understand, desmopressin basically acts like a sponge being squeezed.
SPEAKER_00That's a good way to put it.
SPEAKER_02Right. It forces your body to release all its hidden, stored-up reserves of von Willebrand factor directly into the bloodstream to help you clot.
SPEAKER_00That's a great way to look at it. It squeezes the sponge. Now, contrast that with type 2. Type 2 is the qualitative defect category. So the protein is present, but it's broken. And it can break in several unique ways.
SPEAKER_02Like the mangled fence you mentioned.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Sometimes it loses its largest, stickiest chains. Sometimes it just can't bind to the vessel wall at all. But the most dangerous variation is called type 2B.
SPEAKER_02Why is it the most dangerous?
SPEAKER_00In type 2B, the von Willebrand factor protein is structurally deformed in a way that makes it too sticky. It is hyperreactive.
SPEAKER_02Wait, how is being too sticky a bleeding problem? Shouldn't that make you clot more easily?
SPEAKER_00You would think so, wouldn't you? But because it's hyperreactive, it floats through the bloodstream blindly grabbing onto every passing platelet it can find, even when there is no injury at all.
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, clumps them all together prematurely. The body sees these useless clumps, thinks they're basically garbage, and completely clears them out of your blood.
SPEAKER_02So by the time you actually get a cut and need to stop bleeding, you just have no platelets left.
SPEAKER_00None.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. Okay, the pieces are falling into place here. So if a doctor sees the label von Willebrand disease, assumes it's the standal type one, and gives that patient desmopressin.
SPEAKER_00They squeeze the sponge, they suddenly flood the patient's bloodstream with massive amounts of this hyper-sticky, defective type 2B glue.
SPEAKER_02Which is a disaster.
SPEAKER_00It's a total disaster. It immediately binds to whatever platelets the patient has left, sweeping them out of the blood entirely. You cause a catastrophic drop in their platelet count, which is a condition called thrombocytopenia.
SPEAKER_02So the treatment given to stop the bleeding severely compromises their ability to survive the bleed. Yes. That is just incredibly high stakes. The label actively obscures the danger. And the text mentions another one, type 2N, which causes a completely different kind of diagnostic chaos.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, type 2N is a failure of the scaffolding job. So the glue works fine, but it cannot bind to and protects factor 8.
SPEAKER_02Okay, the other clotting protein.
SPEAKER_00Right. And because factor eight isn't being protected, it degrades rapidly in the blood. So if a clinician runs a standard blood test on this patient, what they see is a massive alarming deficiency in factor eight.
SPEAKER_02But a deficiency in factor eight, isn't that just classic hemophilia?
SPEAKER_00It looks totally identical to hemophilia A on a basic lab panel.
SPEAKER_02That is wild.
SPEAKER_00So without precise subtyping, a type 2N von Willebrand patient is highly likely to be misdiagnosed with hemophilia and given the complete wrong lifelong treatment plan. Wow. The core philosophy here is that the purpose of classification isn't to end clinical reasoning by slapping a label on a chart, it's to make clinical reasoning safer.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so categorizing the types of broken biology is critical. But as I kept reading Arid's essay, I realized there's an even bigger conceptual problem here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what's that?
SPEAKER_02Let's say we figure out all the subtypes. How do we even know the biology is broken in the first place? Like where does normal end and the disease actually begin? The author calls this boundary uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00Boundary uncertainty is exactly where the rigid nature of medicine collides head on with the fluidity of biology.
SPEAKER_02Because biology is messy.
SPEAKER_00It's incredibly messy. Biology does not create clear cliffs, it exists on a continuous spectrum. But a diagnosis requires a threshold.
SPEAKER_02A cutoff point.
SPEAKER_00Right. It requires a doctor to draw a line in the sand and say everything above this line is healthy and everything below this line is a disease.
SPEAKER_02But how can you possibly draw a permanent line in the sand when a person's biology is changing every single day? I mean, the source points out that your von Willebrand factor levels aren't fixed like your height or your eye color.
SPEAKER_00Not at all. They fluctuate based on an enormous number of variables. Like what? Well, your ABO blood group heavily influences your baseline for starters, but so does your age, whether you were pregnant, your current stress levels, acute inflammation, recent exercise, and even your thyroid function.
SPEAKER_02I want to tie this directly to an experience I think a lot of you listening have probably had. Think about the last time you looked at your blood work, results in a healthcare app on your phone.
SPEAKER_00Oh, everybody does this now.
SPEAKER_02Right. You scan down the list, and suddenly you see a number printed in bright, alarming red, simply because it was one point outside the bracketed normal range.
SPEAKER_00Yep. The red text is terrifying.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So the text mentions a borderline range for this disease, usually around 30 to 50 international units per deciliter. Let me ask you this. Imagine someone gets a lab result of 31, which is technically normal, and another person gets a 29, which gets flagged in red.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Does the human body actually care about that two-point difference, or is this just an administrative cliff we've invented?
SPEAKER_00The human body absolutely does not care about a two-point difference. That is a purely administrative cliff.
SPEAKER_01I knew it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If we connect this to the bigger picture, diagnostic thresholds do not create new biological species. A level of 29 versus 31 is often just the difference between getting a diagnostic code approved by an insurance company and being told to go home.
SPEAKER_02The prevalence statistics in the source material highlight this cliff effect perfectly, I think.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the numbers are wild.
SPEAKER_02They really are. It notes that somewhere between 0.6% and 1.3% of the population has a laboratory abnormality, meaning their blood work falls below that arbitrary line. Right. But only about 0.1%, so one in a thousand people, actually suffer from symptomatic bleeding. And an even smaller fraction, one in ten thousand, have a disease severe enough to require treatment at a specialized referral center.
SPEAKER_00Those aren't three conflicting estimates of how common the disease is, by the way. They are measuring three entirely different constructs. A lab abnormality is just a biological vulnerability. It's a risk factor on a piece of paper.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Symptomatic bleeding is the actual real-world clinical expression of that vulnerability. And the referral center population reflects the clinical complexity of managing it.
SPEAKER_02So why draw the line there at all then? If the 30 to 50 range is just a borderline vulnerability, why risk labeling someone with a genetic disease when it might just be natural variation?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Because of the human stakes involved. Historically, that borderline range was just called low VWF. But the 2021 clinical guidelines supported diagnosing it as von Willebrand disease for people below 50 if they have a history of abnormal bleeding.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell So it's about validating their symptoms.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Labeling it as a disease validates the patient's experience. It helps them access care when their severe nosebleeds or heavy menstrual bleeding have been repeatedly dismissed by doctors as normal.
SPEAKER_01Ah, I see.
SPEAKER_00But the tension is profound because by broadening the category to help those patients, you risk labeling a natural biological trait as a discrete lifelong monogenic disease.
SPEAKER_02It's a double-edged sword.
SPEAKER_00It really is. It is a constant tug of war between missing people who desperately need help and over-medicalizing people who are just naturally on the lower end of the bell curve.
SPEAKER_02It's messy. Where normal meets abnormal is just incredibly messy. But you know, this sheer messiness actually makes a lot more sense when you look at the timeline of how this was discovered in the first place.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the history is fascinating.
SPEAKER_02Because the people who named this disease had absolutely no idea what von Willebrand factor was, did they?
SPEAKER_00They did not. Yeah. He didn't have a clue. This brings us to the premolecular legacy of the label. Eric von Wilran first described this hereditary bleeding disorder in 1926.
SPEAKER_021926.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was studying a large family from the Oland Islands in the Baltic Sea.
SPEAKER_02And he didn't have access to modern genetic sequencing or protein assays or anything like that. He did this entirely based on clinical patterns, right? Entirely. He noticed that both men and women were affected, which was different from classic hemophilia that mostly affects men.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02He saw mucocutaneous bleeding, so severe nose bleeds, bleeding from the gums, heavy menstruation.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. He named the disease based purely on the phenotype, the outward visible symptoms. He was naming the shadow on the wall, essentially, not the object casting the shadow.
SPEAKER_02That is a great way to put it.
SPEAKER_00The actual molecular mechanism, the von Willebrand factor protein itself, wouldn't be discovered and understood for decades.
SPEAKER_02So the name was locked in place almost a century ago. And as modern science caught up, the biology beneath the name just splintered into all those subtypes and borderline cases we just talked about.
SPEAKER_00Yep, it just shattered.
SPEAKER_02But reading Aird's essay, it gets even wilder than that because the source talks about something called acquired von Willebrand syndrome. This is where a condition you develop later in life can hijack this biology and completely mimic the genetic disease.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and severe aortic stenosis is the classic textbook example of this mimicry.
SPEAKER_02Hold on. I am genuinely stuck here. Aortic stenosis is a heart valve problem.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_02How on earth does a mechanical plumbing issue in the heart mimic an inherited genetic bleeding disorder in the blood?
SPEAKER_00It comes entirely down to physics. The aortic valve is the main gate that lets blood pump out of your heart and into the rest of your body.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00When that valve becomes calcified and narrowed, which is what stenosis means, the blood has to squeeze through a tiny rigid opening at incredibly high pressure.
SPEAKER_02Going back to our raging river analogy, it's like forcing the entire river through a garden hose.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That creates extreme chaotic shear force. Now remember our chain link fence, the von Villeban factor protein it is designed to unravel slightly under normal shear force to get sticky. But the violent shear force of a narrowed heart valve physically yanks the protein completely open. It stretches it out like a crumpled piece of paper being violently pulled flat.
SPEAKER_02And once it's pulled flat, it's vulnerable.
SPEAKER_00Very vulnerable. Once it's stretched out like that, natural enzymes in the blood that normally just do routine maintenance suddenly have access to the core of the protein.
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they chop it to pieces. The protein loses all of its largest, stickiest chains, the high molecular weight multi-ores.
SPEAKER_02Wait a minute. Loss of the largest, stickiest chains, that is the exact same biological endpoint as the genetic type 2a disease we talked about earlier.
SPEAKER_00Yes. If you draw this patient's blood and run it through a lab, the diagnostic pattern looks completely identical to an inherited qualitative genetic defect.
SPEAKER_02That is insane.
SPEAKER_00The lab says type 2a von Willebrand disease, but the cause is entirely different. It's a mechanical plumbing problem, destroying the protein, not a genetic mutation building it incorrectly. And the ultimate proof of this is that if a surgeon goes in and replaces the patient's narrowed aortic valve, the sheer force drops, the proteins stop getting shredded, and the bleeding disorder completely disappears.
SPEAKER_02That is mind-blowing. But I have to challenge the entire premise of how medicine handles this.
SPEAKER_00Go for it.
SPEAKER_02If the biology has fractured into all these different genetic subtypes and the boundaries are blurry, and it can even be perfectly faked by a mechanical heart valve problem later in life, why keep the name von Willebrand disease at all?
SPEAKER_00It's a very fair critique.
SPEAKER_02Right. Why not completely scrap it and rename everything to reflect the modern molecular realities?
SPEAKER_00Why hold on to a hundred-year-old label that causes so much confusion? Well, the author argues that despite its flaws, a shared name still holds immense practical value.
SPEAKER_01How so?
SPEAKER_00It creates a conceptual home for VWS mediated bleeding. It gives clinicians across the world a shared vocabulary to organize testing, establish treatment guidelines, and communicate risk to patients.
SPEAKER_02So it's a useful shorthand.
SPEAKER_00It is a useful shorthand, but it raises a critical warning about the danger of labels. The name only becomes dangerous if a clinician treats it as a fixed, unchangeable truth rather than a working explanation. Right. Imagine a doctor sees the label von Willebrand disease on a patient's chart, assumes it's the inherited genetic version, and just treats the bleeding symptoms with medication while completely ignoring the fact that the patient actually has acquired von Willebrand syndrome from severe aortic stenosis.
SPEAKER_02They'd be trying to fix a shredded protein while the heart is failing.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That would be a catastrophic medical failure. You'd be treating the mimic, the shadow on the wall, while ignoring the root cause.
SPEAKER_02So, what does this all mean for the person sitting in the white coat? If the label is just a working explanation and the lab values fluctuate constantly and heart problems can fake the genetic problems, how does a doctor actually make a diagnosis in the real world without falling into a trap?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell They have to rely on a process of clinical convergence. No single piece of data can carry the weight of the diagnosis alone.
SPEAKER_02So you need multiple clues.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Not a single lab value, not a single genetic test, not just a family history. Everything has to align and make biological sense.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Let's play doctor for a minute to really cement this. Aired's text gives us two contrasting patient profiles to illustrate this convergence. And I want everyone listening to think about how they would solve this puzzle.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Okay, let's hear them.
SPEAKER_02Patient A comes into your clinic, you run their labs, and their VWF level is 35. So they are solidly below the line in that abnormal low range.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Right, below 50.
SPEAKER_02Yep. They have blood group O. They tell you they've had mild nosebleeds throughout their life, but when they got a tooth pulled last year, they didn't bleed excessively at all. And they have zero family history of bleeding disorders.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Okay. A low lab value but mild symptoms. Now let's look at patient B.
SPEAKER_02Patient B's current VWF lab levels are totally normal. They are sitting right in the middle of the healthy reference range. But their clinical history is a nightmare. They have a history of lifelong, severe, heavy menstrual bleeding. They suffered a massive hemorrhage after childbirth. They had excessive, dangerous bleeding after dental work, and they have multiple relatives who also suffer from severe bleeding issues.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell It's a brilliant contrast because it flips our expectations completely upside down.
SPEAKER_02Right. I am looking at this and thinking, patient A has the bad lab result, but is practically fine in the real world. Patient B has a perfect lab result but is bleeding everywhere. How is that biologically possible? How does clinician synthesize this contradiction?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Well, for patient A, the biological context explains away the scary lab value. They have blood group O.
SPEAKER_02Okay, what does that do?
SPEAKER_00We know that people with blood group O naturally clear von Willebrand factor from their blood, about 25% faster than other blood types.
SPEAKER_01Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and their clinical bleeding is mild, and crucially, their system handled the severe physical stress of a dental extraction without failing.
SPEAKER_01So the lab is just their normal.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So that lab value of 35 might just be their healthy natural biological baseline. It's a mild vulnerability, sure, but stamping them with a lifelong disease label is likely an overmedicalization.
SPEAKER_02And what about patient B? How can their lab values be totally normal if they are experiencing all these horrific bleeding at once?
SPEAKER_00That is where you have to understand biological modifiers. Remember our list of things that cause VWF levels to spike: stress, acute inflammation, age, hormones. Right. Patient B likely has a severe inherent von Willebrand factor defect. But on the specific day they had their blood drawn in the clinic, they might have been highly stressed or pregnant or fighting off a viral infection. Their body reacted to that acute stress by emptying whatever reserves it had into the bloodstream, which artificially inflated their VWF levels into the normal range.
SPEAKER_02So the lab test is literally lying to the doctor because the patient's body is trying to adapt to a temporary stressor.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. The body masked its own broken baseline. This is why the diagnosis must remain accountable to the patient over time. A single snapshot of blood in a tube is never enough.
SPEAKER_02You need the whole picture.
SPEAKER_00You need the whole pattern to converge. The compatible real-world bleeding, lab evidence gathered over multiple tests on different days, the inheritance pattern, and ensuring the context actually makes sense.
SPEAKER_02So to summarize this incredible journey you've run on today, we started with a singular neat name, von Wilbrand disease, and we discovered a sprawling, messy family of biological failures hidden beneath it.
SPEAKER_00We covered a lot of ground.
SPEAKER_02We really did. We've got missing glue, broken scaffolding, bodies clearing the protein out too fast, and even mechanical heart valves shredding it to pieces. We learned that diagnostic labels aren't natural laws etched in stone. They are constructed tools created by humans to organize a chaotic reality, to guide treatment, and to communicate risk.
SPEAKER_00And understanding that distinction is exactly why you should care about this topic, even if you never go to medical school. Right. We all have medical files. We all deal with diagnostic labels being applied to ourselves, our kids, our parents. Recognizing that these labels are working explanations rather than fixed biological cliffs makes you a much more empowered patient.
SPEAKER_02It really does.
SPEAKER_00It allows you to step back and ask better questions. You can ask your doctor, is this number a strict threshold or am I on a spectrum? Or could something else entirely be mimicking this symptom? It makes you a better critical thinker in a healthcare system that is, frankly, utterly obsessed with neat categories.
SPEAKER_02And I want to leave you with one final thought to mull over, building on that very idea of empowerment, because it really brings us back to the illusion of precision we've been tearing down today. If a hundred-year-old name like Von Willebrand disease is actually masking dozens of different biological realities, how many other modern singular disease labels sitting in our medical files right now are just waiting for future science to fracture them?
SPEAKER_00That is a great point.
SPEAKER_02What other singular illnesses are we completely misunderstanding today? Just waiting for the diagnostic waters to clear?
SPEAKER_00That is a profound question to take with you and a perfect reminder to stay curious.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for joining us on this deep dive. Keep asking those questions and always look beyond the labels. We'll catch you next time.