BPP TechSphere
BPP TechSphere
International Women's Day 2026 - Give to Gain
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We’re kicking off our Women + [Tech Podcast] with an IWD26 special exploring this year’s theme, Give to Gain. In this launch episode, we introduce our mission: amplifying diverse voices in tech, sharing intersectional experiences, challenging stereotypes, and diving into the tech conversations that really matter.
Host Gemma McKay is joined by three amazing degree apprenticeship learners, Ruby Nicholls, Toma Jonaityte, and Becky Grice, who share their tech career journeys, the support that’s shaped them, and how giving back helps them grow.
This episode marks the start of a community‑driven Women + Tech series where anyone, from first‑day learners to seasoned tech pros - can get involved. Whether you want to be a guest, pitch a topic, or even try hosting, this is your space. We’re building a podcast series for everyone who cares about women and tech - a place to share discoveries, ask big questions, and explore what it truly means to find (and use) your voice in tech!
This Women + Tech Podcast is hosted by Gemma McKay, Head of Programme at School of Technology at BPP University. If you want to get in touch, find her on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gemmamckay/
I'm Idris Fabiyi, Head of Technology and Innovation at BPP University, Estio Training, Firebrand Training & host of the TechSphere podcast. I'm on a mission to demystify complex technology and make it accessible for businesses and learners.
Follow me on LinkedIn: Idris Fabiyi
My Medium.com profile: Read my Articles
Get in Touch: idrisfabiyi@bpp.com
Welcome folks to this very first episode of the Women Plus Tech podcast. This is a space where we amplify real voices, share real experiences, challenge stereotypes, and dive into tech conversations that matter. So whether you're just stepping into tech or you've been here a while, this space is for you to tell stories, ask big questions, and explore what it really means to be a woman in tech or an ally supporting women in tech today. I'm your host, Gemma McKay. I currently head up a data science master's degree apprenticeship here at BPP University, and I've been working in tech and data science for most of my career. I'm so excited to kick off this Women Plus Tech series with three brilliant guests, all degree apprenticeship learners who are carving their own pathways in tech and data. Welcome to our guests, Ruby, Toma, and Becky. It's so lovely to have you here. And what better time to kick off our new podcast series than for International Women's Day 2026? Today's episode is inspired by one of the International Women's Day themes this year, which is give to gain. We're thinking about the support we've received, the support that we give others, and what it takes to build a community where women in tech can genuinely thrive. So, Ruby, Thoma, and Becky, welcome. Um, let's start with some intros so listeners can get to know you. Um so could each of you tell us your name, what you're studying or have studied um at BPP University and the kind of tech work you're doing right now.
SPEAKER_00Hi everyone, I'm Ruby Nichols. I'm an analytical manager in the NHS. At the minute, I'm in NHS England in a regional team. I'm currently studying on the BPP Applied Data and Analytics level seven, which will get me a master's um when I finish, which I'm due to finish soon. I mainly work in healthcare data, which um to summarize at a high level is understanding patient pathways, how we can use data to improve access, efficiency, and care delivery. Um, but it's a really enjoyable role. So it combines the technical side with leadership, and it just creates a really good sense of purpose and yeah, always coming back to that sort of patient journey, which is really great. So, yeah, thank you. Really good to be here.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Ruby. So glad to have you here. Umma.
SPEAKER_04Hi, uh, so my name is Toma. Uh just like Ruby, I'm actually doing the same apprenticeship, but I started in September, so I still have a long way to go. So I'm doing level seven advanced data analytics. Um I work in a charity focused on fighting educational disadvantage, and I'm a data management analyst, which means that in my day-to-day role, I'm responsible for data quality and data governance, and I really do enjoy my job and a lot, I work with lots of lovely people, so it's all great.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. Thank you so much, Tomorrow. It's lovely to have you. Um, let's go to Becky.
SPEAKER_02Hello, uh, I'm Becky. Um, I've just finished uh my apprenticeship, so I was doing a level six data science apprenticeship. Um, so yeah, I finished that in August. Um yeah, and I'm currently uh a data analyst. Um I have all sorts of things to do, um supporting our uh like BI tools so people can look at graphs and get on with their jobs, um updating databases, all things like that. It's a really sort of wide net that I uh operate.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much, Becky. It's so lovely to have you here too. Um that's also such a super varied role, which is great. Um, so it's good to have such a range of industry experience represented. Um, we've all got very, very different backgrounds, which is really nice to have. Um so let's dive into your tech journeys. I'm really interested in people's career journeys and how they found themselves in the roles that they're currently in. Um, and I'm especially here for the wiggly journey. Like shout out to the wiggly journeys. Um, so how did each of you get into tech? What was it that set you on the path that you're on now?
SPEAKER_00I got into data analytics completely by accident. So I've been in the NHS for 16 years now. Um, and it was very wiggly gemma. So I dropped out of university. I was studying costume design because I thought I wanted a career in the arts when I left school. But art's always been my safe place. Like I can be creative, expressive, it's always been somewhere I can escape. And I think when I tried to make it a career, it really lost that spark for me. So I needed a job when I dropped out of university and I saw an NHS admin job, and I needed a bit of stability, so I took it up. But the head of recruitment there, he was really good, and he always was giving people opportunities outside of like just the admin space, and he mentioned a junior workforce analyst job. He noticed that I really liked playing around with Excel back then, and he encouraged me to apply. Um, I had no idea what I was doing, but there was a really brilliant senior analyst who had been brought in, and she was doing some like automation work for some of their workforce reports. And I think that she shows me that data could actually change how services would work on the ground, and that's when I found a bit of purpose in terms of what I was doing. I liked how I could explain data in different ways to people. I was working on workforce business cases and really trying to transform how services were being managed with workforce data. So, from that, I thought I wanted to pivot a little bit and work with patient data. So, a couple of years later, I joined a trust that was going through a lot of change, and I think that was really good because the director who'd come in to lead that change, she really changed my career. She saw a lot of potential in me before I think I saw the potential in myself. She gave me projects that completely pushed me out of my comfort zone, and she trusted me to lead things that I just never thought I could handle. I was always like, oh no, it's like too big for me. I can't do it, like I can't go into that board meeting and present. And she supported me to do that, but ultimately she made it really a safe place to grow. So yeah, it's been super wiggly, as you say, and there's more that's come after that. But yeah, it's been a bit of a pivot. I'd say that's how I got into it. That's my beginning story.
SPEAKER_03I love that, and I I love that there's so many sort of nuggets in there of what encouraged you beyond what you thought you could do as well. Um, that it was, you know, people giving you opportunities and sort of believing in you as well, which is really, really nice.
SPEAKER_04Um I really liked Ruby's story because I've I can really resonate to that as well. Because uh I went really back and forth in my career. So after school, when I finished school, I did energy physics. Like uh I didn't do the whole degree, I did one year, and I realized it wasn't for me. So I quit that, and then I did a degree in creative writing, so completely different. But uh one it was a really interesting degree to study, but I realized I didn't want to have a career in that. You know, that's like something I really enjoy, but you know, doing that as a job, it just um wasn't going to work. Um, so then I really wasn't sure what to do. I worked in the bank as a cashier for a couple of years just to get more like professional experience, and then I joined my previous employer in program support role. Um, and in that role, um I got involved in basically like for my program, they were moving the data from spreadsheets to CRM, and the data was really messy. We had to clean it up, we had to build the reports, and there wasn't much training, so a lot of things I had to figure out myself. And that's how I really got interested in that. And I was like, oh, I really want to do something like this. And uh I decided that I want to just upskill myself in that, so I did a postgraduate certificate in computer science um just to learn new skills, and then I got into my first data role in my current company. Um, it was with working with network data. I stayed in that role for under a year, and then I landed my current role as a data management analyst. Uh, where I did uh I've been in this role for three years now. I did another qualification level for data analyst. Uh, and now I'm doing another apprenticeship, so just continue learning new skills every day and uh really enjoy what I do. So kind of I wasn't looking for this career, but it just kind of found me, and I'm very happy. And this is what I want to continue doing and just continue learning new things.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Tom Ryan. And I think similarly to Ruby, there's that theme of there being sort of that creative element to to your interesting, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, super interesting.
SPEAKER_03And I don't think it's that unusual as well. Um, I think I think having variety is is being a curious person, problem solving. I think you have to have a certain amount of creativity in there as well. Um, Becky, what about you?
SPEAKER_02Did I just say you two are so impressive? Oh my god. Oh my gosh. I'm I'm oh that snow. No, like honestly, like uh well well done to you. Well done to you, honestly. Thanks. Um so mine it my my career, I wouldn't describe it so much as wiggly, as more as like a fast and furious handbrake turn.
SPEAKER_03Love that, love that love that.
SPEAKER_02Um so I went through uni, did a master's, um, and worked a few years um in like biomedical science. Um, so I was lab-based, but um the the sort of seed that started it was when I was on a placement year. So I did two years of my course and then did um a year in industry work in um in like a proper lab, you know, put your, you know, your big person pants on and pretend to have a job for a year. And I did. Um but during that time, one of my lecturers came to, you know, check in, see how things are going, blah, blah, blah. And I was on about the projects I was doing. And we were walking around the lab and all this, but all I was doing was talking to her about my data and being like, yeah, so we we found this, which we're not sure if the like the analytical method was right. We might try this version of stats and like going through all the data. And we did have a good relationship. This isn't like a bullion case, but she was like, Oh, that's weird. I was like, what do you mean it's weird? Um she was like, Yeah, normally when I I do these visits, it's just about the lab and like the experiments. She's like, You've not stopped talking about the data. It's like, well, yeah, like that's the best bit. What do you mean? Like, that's like, yeah, the lab's fun, but one, my back hurts. And two, the whole point is to get data out so you can prove a thing. So or like disprove a thing, depending on how you work it. But that's that's the point, right? And she's like, technically, yes. So I was like, oh, okay. I was like, well, maybe that's just my my niche. That's that's just what I'm gonna do. That's my niche. Like I'll I'll work in the labs, but like data's kind of like, I'll be the data one. So as I moved through jobs, I was always the data one. So I was always in the spreadsheets trying to update things, explaining, no, that's that's not how stats works. Um things like that. And then it was in my previous job, um, it was an unfortunate case, really, but fortunate for me, um, that they took on more people because they were so busy, but because they were so busy, they couldn't train people. Uh and in sort of that industry, you can't just be let loose all sorts of safety regulations and and tracking and things like that. So I was I was just sort of on my laptop, sort of doing the admin paperwork stuff. So I said, Do you have any data? Please tell me you've got some data things to do, anything like that. Like give me a big crunchy XL, something like that. Um and they said, Oh, actually, yes. Here's this horrific problem we've got. Yes, give it, give it a. So, what it was, we were using uh mass spectrometers, which basically uh take uh a little sample and try and separate it out into all the bits. Um, and then that spits out this horrific CSV. You open it in Excel, and it's horrific. Like you have to go through, find the specific column that you need, then try and extract that so you can actually use it. I was like, this is awful. And you're running multiple tests all day. Um I was like, how on earth are you managing this data? And they said, fun story, we're not really. So I was like, oh, okay, okay, this is this is this is what I'm gonna solve, right? That's what I'm doing. So then they leaked me to a paper where someone had used R, like the programming language R, to try and extract the need and columns. And I was like, oh, that's even better than whatever I had in mind. So now I started to learn R. So I whilst I was, you know, not quite twiddling my thumbs, but basically twiddling my thumbs. Um, I was like, I'm gonna teach myself R. So I went on like found a free course online, started teaching myself R in in the office, um, so I could automate this process for them. Um, and then I was like, I I was talking to my friend who works here, um she said, you know, that's a job that you can you can do, and you don't just have to, you know, try and power through with, you know, Excel and whatever's happening. She's like, there's a role coming up here, why don't you go for it? It's an apprenticeship, it was exactly what I needed. Because, you know, I'd I'd already worked for a few years, you know, I had you know bills to pay, you can't just drop out again and go back to uni. Like it unfortunately, uh, you know, life didn't land that way. So and it was ex honestly, it was perfect. Um so it's an apprenticeship. I I can't believe I got it. They obviously saw something. Um yeah, here I am now. Absolutely. X XL, cruddy XL's a thing of the past.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Becky, what a story. I all three stories have just got so much um enthusiasm in them as well. I think the fact that you've all come through and led by curiosity to get to where you are now and really sort of found a problem that you wanted to solve, or like Tom was saying about the storytelling, you know, trying to really tell a story with data. And Becky, the the the sort of the switch for you as well from biomedical sciences to have to then pivot into something that you probably didn't realise was going to be something you'd be super interested in being the data part of it, um, is really, really wonderful. I don't want to start a fight around uh whether Python or R is is better, but um I also I also started with R and had to self-learn Python, which was a shock to the system after after learning R. Um but yeah, I think I think um yeah, what awesome journeys um from from getting to where you are now. I think from that, it brings us really nicely to that theme of of support. And we're linking this back to obviously the International Women's Day theme of give to gain. So your journeys are also unique. Um, but I'd really love to know who supported you along the way. I know that Ruby, you mentioned really sort of being thrown into board meetings and things and doing things that you probably didn't think that you were capable of until you did them, and having somebody champion you can be really important in that. Um, so if we're if we're talking about this, who are the people that have helped you to get to why where you are now in your tech career? Was there a mentor, a teacher, or a colleague? Who made a real difference?
SPEAKER_00I think for me, uh alluded to that director when I went into that organisation that's going through quite a lot of change. And I would say she's such a big influence on who I am as a professional. Um, I'd go into meetings and she'd be able to handle anything. And I think for years I watched how she handled these meetings, and in a lot of cases, she was the only woman sitting at the board table, and she was getting some questions fired at her, and just seeing how she handled them, especially like some really fiery situations, it really shaped me into who I am today. I'd say that true support as a leader, it's not about micromanaging, and you know, we've all come across a bit of a micromanager before, but she was the complete opposite of that. She was a believer in the people that she supported. Um, and I think that's what comes through in terms of my management style from her. So just believing in people, probably before they believe in themselves. But I've been really lucky. I've worked with a lot of great people across the NHS, a load of people that have championed me, so both men and women. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that as well, because some of the most respectful and empowering colleagues I've had, you know, they've been from all walks of life, and it's been more of a collaboration relationship, which really helps because I think respect is such a big thing in the workplace. If you feel respected, then it really helps with that confidence and growth. Um, so yeah, I think a lot of it just goes back to her. Like I can't explain how great she was in that point in my life.
SPEAKER_03What a wonderful um figure to have at that point in your career as well. And to it, it sounds like they really were quite formative in, like you say, creating your own leadership style as well. Um and seeing that a great leader is is is actually like you say not somebody that micromanages, um, but actually sort of helps other people to to see where where they can go, um, and as you said, make it more of a collaboration as well, which is which is so awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um definitely and also just before we go on to tomorrow, like Becky was saying about our careers, but yours has been super impressive as well. Like there was there was loads of bravery in both of yours. Aw.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Absolutely agree.
SPEAKER_04I feel very fortunate because I feel like I work with so many wonderful people in my career. Uh one of them was um one of my land managers in my previous in my previous employment. Uh so she really helped me like learn not to be afraid of challenges and see them as learning opportunities. Because she was my land manager for over a year, like maybe a year and a half. And in that time we had a very small team, and most of the time, so almost off sick. We had people on long-term sickness. So a lot of times it was just me and her, and like the workload was insane. Um so that was it was a lot, but it was a very good opportunity just to learn how to manage stress, how to prioritize effectively during extremely busy times. And although my work now is very different, I think that resilience and an ability just to say no to things still helps me like years later. And I think that was a really good experience. Um, also, my first line manager in my current role, uh, the person who hired me into the data management analyst role, the director of data analytics, uh, was also a very important person in my career because he helped me take on great professional development opportunities because I was still very new in data, and those opportunities really helped me learn the skills that you know help me now. So that was great. Also, my career online. Manager. I wanted to do data engineering and started the apprenticeship in that. But then, literally a couple of months in, I realized that was really not for me, and I was extremely unhappy. I was very stressed because I didn't know what to do. I knew I didn't want to do that. I wanted to do something different. I really appreciate how supportive he was. And there was no judgment and just like a very like understanding approach to that. So I'm very grateful because I quit that apprenticeship and I'm very happy with where I am now and the apprenticeship I'm doing right now. So that was great. So yeah, like these were like some of the people that I'm very grateful for, and I think helped me so much in my career.
SPEAKER_03That's amazing. And I think you've been really fortunate by the sounds of things to have some really, really good line managers. Um, and I think that can't really be understated, can it? Like your line manager is a really important person in your career and has the ability to really form your direction in a lot of ways and support you. So the fact that you've had that experience with so many different line managers has been really clearly been really positive, which is great.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I don't I don't have enough time to talk about everyone, but I'm just I'm so fortunate to have worked with so many wonderful people. And like you said, I think your line manager is the most important person because if you don't have a good relationship with your line manager, I think it's very difficult to enjoy your work. And if you don't enjoy your work, you know, you're not your results are not gonna be how they would be if you're like fully passionate about it. Do you know what I mean? So I think it's it's very important.
SPEAKER_03I I think as well, from from what both you and Ruby have said so far, there's there is a thing around the things that we get from other people, so the things that they've given to us are not necessarily the things that are the main thing, like the the promotion or the opportunity, but actually, as you've just said, Thomas, some of those skills like resilience and the ability to learn how to say no. And Ruby, you also say about you know going into some difficult situations and meetings and just seeing how that person did things, like those things around the edges really do make a massive difference in what we get from other people. Um, so influence is quite a strong thing. Becky, is that something that resonates with you? Have you got that sort of experience as well, or was yours slightly different?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I just say I love that mindset, Thoma, of like, oh yeah, this was a really difficult uh like situation, but like you saw it as an opportunity to like develop skills. Like I love that mindset. That's that's something I'm trying to adopt more. Um yeah, like this uh what's only called a growth mindset. Um yeah, so I love that. Um yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like mine uh line managers, they I think they really can make or break it. Um so obviously this is a a positive space, but yeah, so like I've had um not very supportive line managers, um, but then I've managed to, you know, change, either change jobs or or change managers. And so my current manager is fantastic, he is so supportive. Um always looking for like new opportunities for me, and you know, finding areas I can develop and how not just saying, you know, oh you need to develop this. He's like, okay, so this is an area for growth. How can we get you to, you know, where we want you to be? Uh I tell you what, I'll talk to such body. I know they've got an opportunity coming up, and you can work on that. How do you feel about it? So he's absolutely brilliant, he's so supportive. But I will say as well, we've got um like a early careers team who sort of look after the apprentices and like the new grads and things like that. Um, and there's a woman in there, Caroline, who is fantastic. She has been there from day dot for me. Um, big or small, she has been there. So she's not tech specific. Um, she's just there for essentially me as a person. Um and if it is something tech specific, she's like, I have no idea what you're saying. No idea. She's like, but I'll throw out some hooks and I'll I'll see who who can help you. She is so so supportive. Always checking in. Um you know, if I say, Oh, you know, it's 'cause we we have like a regular check-in as like uh early careers team. She's like, what can we help you with? What do you need? She's like, you can talk to me anytime. And it's just having that person there who isn't necessarily a manager, um, and I don't have to talk too strictly about work things. Um I find that so so helpful. Um and you know, when you're like off the record. Uh with HR not present, can I just say, you know, you you just need to get something off your chest. Um just that trust and that support is just so so helpful. Just to know there's someone there who's who's like got your back. So so helpful.
SPEAKER_03I I think you've really hit on an important thing there, Becky, which is really that that wider support network and having that outside of your like say your immediate sort of maybe line management responsibilities that you know your line manager's there to support you in in job-related stuff. Here sounds like you've also had good experience with you know being pushed and being given opportunities, which really does seem to be something that we will all celebrate and and you know be really wanting in our in our careers, but to also have that space where you've got, like say, that safe space where you can you can sort of talk about the things that maybe are more challenging that sit outside of the immediate job role and and talk about the broader picture of where you want to go. And I think that's a real vote for mentoring and coaching, which is is a huge thing, whether it's a formal thing. I know that very often that's something we we might not necessarily formally be doing, but actually it does seem to go on in quite a lot of places around us. And we do we do receive and give a lot of um advice to people, which is really, really great. Um, yeah, really lovely to sort of hear the the support that you've all received um and continue to receive in your in your workplaces. On the on the flip side of that, we also give support. So obviously, you know, we've we've been receiving um support from other people, line managers or people outside of that, more from a sort of mentoring capacity. So even if we don't realize it, it might be that you've had a conversation with someone that has helped them to then go on and go, actually, you know, maybe I could do that. Or you've just explained to somebody the processes that you've gone through to get to where you are in your career, and that that's inspired them to think differently about their own sort of journey. Um, very often we we might not actually be aware of the impact that we've had unless somebody comes back and tells us like that conversation really mattered, or you know, what you you did for me there really, really made an impact. So it might be a really good reflection point actually for us to sort of take away of if there is something that you know we've received from somebody, that somebody's given us that support. And there's been a conversation where we look back and we go, oh, actually, that conversation made such a massive difference to like the trajectory of my career. Maybe as it's International Women's Day, um especially if that person's a woman, um, maybe go and say thank you to them and say, you know what, we had a conversation a few years ago and that made a massive difference to me. Um, so there we go. So homework for us to do maybe later. Um, so thinking about that flip side of support that we have given to other people, have you supported others on their journeys? So have you ever helped someone else with something maybe you once struggled with yourself? Or is it like a moment that you feel proud of helping somebody to grow and develop in their role?
SPEAKER_04I love that, Germa. I'm actually gonna write the note in my in my notebook just to say, like, write messages for all inspiring women in my life to settle women's day. So I love that. Thank you. That's a great idea.
SPEAKER_00I can relate to what you've just said on terms of how you give back, and part of that is trying to model what I've experienced in my own management leadership style, and that's probably helping people feel stretched but supported. And a lot of the things we've spoken about today so far is like having the opportunity to like problem solve, be creative, and I think people get a lot of enjoyment out of that in their work, and it usually leads to better ideas. I know, like when I'm under pressure to do something, but I've also got quite a lot of autonomy in how I'm trying to solve the problem. I do find more creative ways to get there. Um, so yeah, that could mean like encouraging people to take leads on presentations. I've managed people who are like, there's no way I don't want to go in and present, I'm too scared. Um, but just giving them the opportunity to do that, maybe even just like in a team meeting, presenting on something they're really passionate about. We used to do these like little rotational sessions within our own team where someone could present on something that they felt really passionately about, and that was like someone in my previous team, he used to do drag in his spare time, so he presented on being a drag queen. Other people um were really involved in like mental health, so they presented on things like that. Um yeah, just like all sorts of different walks of life, so it was good to be able to be in a safe space, have something that you felt really strongly about presenting on, and also being comfortable in learning those presentation skills, but also just sitting down and listening and helping someone through something that's a bit tricky. Um, I think it's really important to make the workplace a space where people feel trusted, supported, and free to grow. So yeah, I think curiosity, creativity, kindness really comes through in how I like to manage people, and I hope that that then enables them to grow and problem solve in a really safe space.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Yeah, that's I mean, it's it's it really sounds like you're in informing your leadership style with with the things that you've received, at things that you've experienced and gone. Actually, a lot of this has been so helpful to your career that actually it's really nice to be able to pass that on and give to other people and to build on that, which is so so lovely. Um, and I really, I really like what you're what you were saying around um sort of building that sense of trust and also just listening, helping listening to people, I think is really like underrated. Like it's amazing how much listening is not is like we talk about active listening, we talk about listening being a good thing, but actually how much of the time do we actually listen? And I think that certainly it sounds from what you've said, Ruby, like from a leadership perspective, that that has been something that you've given to other people, and that is such a big thing.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. I I like feeling like I can be my authentic self in a workplace, and I've worked in places where I felt like I can't be that, and I think it causes so much stress and anxiety, and already a job can be, especially in the NHS, it can be really stressful. So having that place where people can just be themselves and put ideas on the table and not feel like they're gonna get any repercussions, I think that's so important, and I wish there were more spaces that people could feel like they can come to work and be their authentic selves. Completely agree.
SPEAKER_04Uh, I actually find it quite difficult to think about this because I'm not in a management or leadership position myself, and I don't work with that many women alongside me. The women that I work with are usually above me, so you know they're the ones inspiring and supporting me. Um, so I just literally spoke about this uh with uh another data management analyst. So there's two of us, and like she's a woman as well. She's a wonderful woman and a great data management analyst. And so I asked about it. I was so reassured because I know, like, I feel like I always try to celebrate success with other colleagues, especially the ones that are not feeling confident. I try to be supportive, I try to encourage people, I like it really encourage them to take care of themselves and say no when it's needed, no when to take a break, and do not feel like never feel bad about taking a break. Give them recognition through the official channels in the company. We have this like recognize things, so try to do that for colleagues. And that's what the colleague, you know, the data management analyst was saying about she was like praising me, and I was like, oh my god, this is so nice. And it was so strange to hear that because I feel like I get as much from her as she gets from me. I feel like we're a really great team. Uh, because we have different skills, so we kind of uh complete each other, and I just think it's amazing. Um, so yeah, it was really reassuring to hear her say these things about me. Um because I really do try to do that, you know, like it's important to me that people who work with me feel supportive, uh supported and no one's stressed or anything. So yeah, like that that made me really happy. And uh just not like about women specifically, but I do really like the idea of building communities, so um, it's which I think is very important when you work remotely or study remotely. So I'm a student rep for my cohort for the apprenticeship. I also created a Slack channel for everyone on the apprenticeship to um just connect, speak to each other so that we can help each other out because it can feel very isolated doing um like this course remotely. Uh so I think that will be a benefit to everyone, including women as well. If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely makes sense. And yeah, I mean that's it's it's so great to be in an environment where people are lifting each other up and celebrating each other's successes, and it really sounds like you've you've not only got that where you were, Thoma, but also that that's something that you're actively like facilitating and encouraging, which is awesome. I think that having I know you mentioned communities and and that you're that's something that you you've been doing and you you sort of clearly have got um, you know, lots of experience in doing as well.
SPEAKER_04I think that that's something that really matters is that sense of belonging, which has come up a few times, I think already, like that sense of we spend so much time in work, so much of our life is spent in work, like just doing work things, so and life is too short to uh just feel miserable and not happy, like at work. So it's very important that we enjoy what we do and then we work with great people, and yeah, I just think yeah, I think it's so important.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, um, really, really important, Becky.
SPEAKER_02Yes, so um I'm 100% behind you there, Thomas. So I was also a student rep for the exact same reason I was studying remotely, so I I had no idea who I was studying with, so I I did the same. I was like, I'll be a student rep, um made a WhatsApp group so everyone can talk. Um so yeah, very similar to you there. Um but yes, I also agree about um we spend so much time here and work, we should try and foster a nice environment. Um, and that is something that we sort of hold organizationally, so um it's not so much a personal onus on on per on like you know, just me or anyone else. Um it's like embedded in the culture that we do celebrate each other's successes, that we do lift each other up, like we we do um quite a lot for International Women's Day and and all sorts of events. Um so it is quite good there. Um something else that I try and get involved in with you mentioning community, is we do a lot of outreach, so we do a lot of educational outreach specifically, um, and a lot of social mobility outreach, um, just because we're based in Manchester, so social mobility is like a big sort of focus for us, especially in tech, um, with it being inaccessible for quite a lot of people. Um, so I've done things like uh we had a Ada Lovelace day that we hosted. So in partnership with I think it was Manchester Tech, um we had a partnership where we hosted um a few schools um and talks about you know careers in tech. Um we've supported days where uh we've supported career changes. So, you know, generally um like uh people we've already had careers and then are looking to get into tech now and help and support them with that. Um so that's a really big passion of mine is making sure that everybody who wants to have a go can have a go, even if it's not for them. Let them discover that. Um it it shouldn't be there shouldn't be barriers in the way for gender, income, whatever. I yeah, that's a really big passion point for me. And so I try and support with all those as much as I can. And as he was saying, um yeah, it's it's the community aspect for me. I feel like that's really important. Like I'm trying to foster it around where I live as well. Um, we've got one of those lovely uh local groups where it's what you know, what day is the bin out? Um, but there's also posts saying, Oh, there used to be community here. Why isn't the community? And I think a lot of that is because and I'm going to sound like an absolute cliche here, so I am sorry in advance, but I feel like community should be a verb. Um, it's something that you do have to work at, it's something that you have to put the hours in. Um, so I'm trying to do that locally as well. So like I've joined, like trying to start like a local litter picking group. Um like there's a a group of lesson, they're all retired. So these these little ladies who who do uh flower pots on the high street. Um so I I'm I'm working my own way in with them as well, and just trying to make it just a bit nicer, just a bit safer, particularly for women as well. Just I I just want it to be nice for I just want it us all to get along. I just want it all to be nice. Um wow, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, doing so much outside of your time, Becky. Have you explored STEM ambassador roles?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, so that's sort of what we do. I don't think I've officially STEM ambassador, but whenever there's anything that comes up, because we we have a whole like Slack channel and community dedicated to it, um, of like outreach and STEM projects and things like that. So like we we do all sorts from um yeah, from like schools to um the the unis as well. We're in Manchester, so we've got two, three, three unis around us. Um so we we do a lot with them as well. Um yeah, just about the sick community going, yeah, I'll do that, I'll do that.
SPEAKER_03That theme of community has come up in in all three of your stories because I think it's something that is is inherently what we're talking about when we're talking about helping other people, like and and wanting to to create something that's outside of just our own successes. Um, I know Ruby, you were talking about having space to grow and sort of that kindness that you've tried to embed within your own sort of leadership style as well. Um and I really like the fact, Becky, that you're saying, you know, that community is a verb, it should be something that is done. And I completely agree. I think that that's really like all of those things that you're doing are incredible. Um, and I think it really points to the fact that again, a point that you made really nicely that when you're talking about something like culture or community, it's really the onus shouldn't be on individuals. And I think when we're talking about, you know, giving to other people, um that can't be done in isolation. Like there's there's so much to to benefit. It for everybody if if we're all doing that on a on a bigger scale. So amazing work that's going on there. And yeah, keep going. And I want to hear more about it as well. There's there's loads of questions I've got. So I think it also links back to the mentoring thing that I sort of mentioned earlier. That this there's a lot to be said for mentoring. And I know for me personally, uh mentoring career changes and people early in their careers getting into tech and data science has been something I've done for a long time. And it's something that it's just so rewarding just to see people sort of be able to take those sort of steps and build their comp confidence and move into something that they maybe were tentatively, you know, interested in but didn't know how to get there. So community, um, culture and making sure that we're doing that collectively is is really, really important. Those examples really lead nicely into a really bigger conversation about your experiences in tech. And I think being a woman in tech today as well. So I'm really interested if there's any women who have inspired you in your career or your life more more broadly. Now I know that we've mentioned there's lots of brilliant um managers and directors and and people that have been mentioned already. Um, but it might be that there's somebody, it might be that that is the person that is sort of a real role model or inspiration for you, or it might be that actually there's somebody, somebody else outside of that, maybe at home, um, or it could be somebody famous. Um, so who inspired you?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question, Gemma. Um I think I take inspiration from so many women, especially ones I work with, because yeah, they're they live, they live it with, yeah, they live that experience with you, don't they? So the ones who show quiet strength, um, you know, women have so much life admin, things outside of work struggles that go on, and they still show up for work every day, the ones who multitask kindness and professionalism every day, those who advocate for others. Um, I mean, yeah, what Becky was talking about, just still managing to show up for other people, bring people together, and on a huge career journey as well. Or those that can make you feel calm and capable under pressure. Um, like I said before, I work in an organization where there's always a lot of pressure. So sometimes it's quite nice to come back to a place and there's people around you that are helping you feel that calmness. But I think everyday inspiration um is just as powerful as the big success stories we often hear. So there's like a lot of podcasts and webinars that I listen to, and there's massive success stories in those. But just hearing like this is a great example, this podcast of just women that show up every day um try and carve out a space for themselves in the tech industry and are doing a great job at it. So even like this podcast today, I'm feeling massively inspired.
SPEAKER_03Love that. So so many brilliant women that it's hard to pin one down. I like that. That's so definitely that's that's a nice problem to have.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it is Becky. I guess I'll go next. People can't see, you know, but I'm just stuck smiling when I'm listening to these stories. Uh, just think it's so wonderful. Uh I yeah, I work with so many wonderful and inspiring women, and I want to name them where I can. You know, obviously, if they work for my crown organization or work there, I can't name them. But when I work for my previous employer, um, my very first line manager, Frances, was actually the first line manager that I've ever had who was generally so kind and supportive and inspiring. And it just really made me change the way I see my line manager because before I was it was someone that I was afraid of. You know, you don't want to mess anything up in case your line manager finds out. Um, but that was not how I saw her at all. It was just like someone who's there to support you and to help you and help you grow. So that's just so so wonderful. And we do still keep in touch. Now, she actually messaged me not that long ago because she's she's involved in so many interesting things, and she was doing something for Women's Day and asked me if I wanted to get involved as well. But I'm actually away from the UK right now, so I couldn't, but that was just so wonderful. Um, so that she was one of the first people I thought of when I thought about women who inspired me. There was another person working in there uh in that company as well, Ellie, who was the program lead, and she was uh such a strong woman and really inspired me by her constant persistence and sense of humor. So I always remember her with uh just so much joy. Uh another person that can't not mention is another line manager that I had, who was the head of data management and engineering, and she was just such a lovely person to work with, like so warm and so supportive, but at the same time, like very, very committed to work and very results focused. And I really like how Ruby mentioned quiet strength because I think that's a very I think that's just such a good way of describing this woman as well. And she was the best data management uh expert that I've ever come across. So I really miss her. I am really miss working with her, and I can't not mention I mentioned already her before, like my peer data management analyst. Uh I just think she's so wonderful. Me and her, we have the same job role where we have different skills and we tend to do different tasks, but I just think it just works so well together, and um I think she needs to believe in herself more because I just have so much to learn from her, and I just think she's incredible.
SPEAKER_03So many, so many brilliant people that you've listed there, and I think it's so lovely to hear that there's so many that you're you're sort of getting that inspiration from and that you're holding sort so closely as well. So um I I love that you mentioned humour as well being a big thing. Um, but you know, having sometimes just having it brings you joy, yeah. It really does make a difference. Yeah, like it's it's not mentioned often enough, I don't think, when we talk about work because we we tend to talk about the serious stuff, but it's just a really nice thing. It just made me think actually, yeah, humor is a big thing at work and can get you through some really, really tough times. Um, but it's it's great to hear that that career influence from those role models.
SPEAKER_04When things get difficult, you know, at work, I always say like you can either cry or you can laugh at that. So I choose to laugh at you at that point. That is a great cry.
SPEAKER_03That is a great motto to have, Tomorrow. I love that. Um Becky, what about you? What about your role models and who inspired you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I'm fortunate as well to have worked with absolutely fantastic women throughout my time. Um, so like even back in the labs, there was um uh a lady with Shaksu, and she was fierce in the best way. Um, because that was like my first proper job out of uni. Um, so I was really finding my feet in careers and things like that. And I was like, oh gosh, like I want to beat you. I want to be you, you're fantastic. Um yeah, like incredible at a job, but fierce as well. So similar uh that of view of stories is like learning how to say no. I was like, oh, I want to be able to do that. Um I'm still working on it, but I always think I was like, right, channel, channel chaxi, channel chaxi, be a bit more chaxi. Um she's absolutely fantastic, and uh that was my first job, so that was 2020. Um and yeah, we you still see each other now, like still meet up for brunches and things like that. So yeah, she's absolutely fantastic. Um and then yeah, just working through labs, people who are just sort of similar to what Tom was saying, that that just that strength of like, oh yeah, you know, this is happening in my life, but still turning up to work, still going through it. Um and just just incredible people. Um but yeah, now I I work with so many. It's it's it honestly it's it's borderline intimidating in a great way. Um just so many incredibly smart and capable women. It's like, oh, I love you all, you're all fantastic. It's the approach as well. So I'm in complete awe of some of them. And like I need to ask them a question because that I, you know, they know more than me in a lot of senses. So when I go and like, hey, um, do you want if I if I ask you about this? And they're like, oh my gosh, yes. Put in some time, like we'll get coffee, we'll go over this, I've got all these things to show you, da da da da. And oh, they're just fantastic, and I can learn so, so much from them, and they're so open with their time. Oh, they're absolutely fantastic. I couldn't really ask for better colleagues. But similar to what Tommy was saying, they are so funny. I every time I'm in the office, I'm laughing, we're having a great chat. They're absolutely, I know I've said fantastic so much, but uh I'm struggling to find another word for them. Yeah, a day where I don't laugh doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_03There's so much, so much uh love and recognition in this space today for these people, which is just so so heartwarming. Um, and I just I love that you sort of said that there's somebody that one of your sort of um inspirational people is fierce in the best way. Like I just I can I get that vibe straight away. I know the sort of character you mean, and they really can make a massive impact on those around them, which is awesome. Um I also think that what you said around you know, being borderline intimidated by by you know the people surrounding, I think you should always aim to be, there's that quote as now, you should always aim to be the least smart person in the room. And I think if if you're surrounded by people who are brilliant and really shine brightly, then you're in a really good place. Um, so I think that's that's an awesome place to be. Um so based on on all of those wonderful people um that we've spoken about that have inspired us, we've got a good sense of what good looks like. Um so we know that we're we're talking about giving to gain, um, but we and we've also spoken a bit about the environment and the culture and um you know the the sort of community around us as well. We know that according to government data, 20% of people in tech in the UK are women, and we know that we could be doing better things to support them. Um I won't go into loads and loads of facts because there's loads I could talk to, and maybe we'll do another podcast on some of those things. But what could we be doing better to support women in tech? So is there something that you wish leaders of teams understood better, or what do you think organizations could do more of just to help people be in an environment where they can thrive really?
SPEAKER_00So I think if I'm thinking about support, I would say it doesn't need to come from someone with a big title like mentor or leader. There's a reason a lot of my friends have come out of jobs that I've worked in. Um, and that's usually because that support looks like I've gone into a presentation, and just before one of them have said, You've got this, you're gonna be great. Or I've come out of a meeting that was a bit rough, and one of them's just pulled me to the side and said, Do you want to go get a coffee and talk about it? Like those little bits of support, they don't go unnoticed, and I think they start to build bonds with people, and you realise actually everyone's in a similar position. Um, other things in terms of support that I can't talk about enough is having people pull you into meetings where there's key conversations happening, like coming from someone that you really respect, and them saying, Can you come to this meeting? I'd really value your input, I'd really value you being in the room. I've had people that have pulled me in that I've really like aspired to be like. Um, like just thinking back, I worked in an organisation where they had lots of contractors in, and I saw these contractors being like really technical, like a group of men that had been in the industry for a long time, and I was just like awed by their skill set. But the thing that they gave me was they'd invite me out for lunch, uh, or they shared like stories from their experiences, or they'd sit down with me and show me how to do something technical that I didn't know how to do at that point. So I'd say for women in tech and data roles, just having opportunities to ask questions freely, having that foul safely space without any judgment really makes a difference. And just those everyday acts of encouragement, that's real support. And yeah, I just think people that really value having your voice in the room is what good support looks like for women in tech.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Ruby. I think that that that's a really important message, and um, it's so great to hear that that's something that you've seen and experienced in in pockets in your journey. Um, but it's that thing, isn't it, of being given a seat at the table, literally. Like being able to actually be party to those conversations and the doors that that can open up for you and your career is is massive.
SPEAKER_00It's super frustrating, isn't it, when you're given a piece of work or you're given a project and you find out there was loads of pre-work and meetings done that if you were at the table, you would be able to go in and be like, okay, I understand the problem, I know what needs to be done. But coming in late to those conversations, you already feel like you're on the back foot. And I always want to make sure that I'm doing my best, I'm giving my all. So, yeah, having that opportunity to be there, that's real support.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_04I think just in general, like it inclusion and diversity is just so important because the more inclusive our workplaces are, the more comfortable everyone feels, and the more uh comfortable people will be to bring their true selves to work and contribute the unique ideas. So it's not just good for people, it just benefits the business as well. And it's important to understand that people have different needs, different communication styles, learn things differently. Uh I'm very lucky because I haven't actually experienced misogyny at work myself, but I have heard about it, uh, especially when it comes to sometimes not all the time, I think it's the minority now, but sometimes on very traditional tech spaces. And I think it's important that these things are challenged and not tolerated just because someone is very senior or like the expert in their field. Because I have seen instances when someone's behavior, like inappropriate behavior, was tolerated just because they were very good at the job and they can be replaced. Um so there was actually when I was thinking about this, I remember there was one instance where it wasn't me who was the victim in the situation, but like so a colleague of mine, a female colleague of mine, was a victim of like very inappropriate behavior coming from a male colleague, and they didn't want to report it. And I encouraged, I actually reported myself and encouraged them to speak to each other, and then like the issue was resolved in the end. But I think it's very important to speak up when these things happen. Um just because otherwise, like nothing is going to change, you know. Like we need to just be brave and speak up and challenge this behavior. Umly then I think we can expect to see the change in the future.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Oh, it makes perfect sense, Tom Ran. I think you've you you've really hit the nail on the head there with just challenging inappropriate behavior in and of itself is such an important thing to create an environment that's safe and enables people to thrive. Like that is such a basic fundamental that we should we should expect. Um, and it's really great to hear that you've been sort of Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think some women feel uncomfortable, you know, people don't want conflict, so they just kind of brush things to the side, and you know, they don't want to cause any drama, you know, kind of drama you can't see my echoes. Uh so just they just choose to stay silent, but it's not helpful, you know, because then you can't resolve the situation and people are then unhappy, and it just creates a very toxic work environment. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Becky, what does good support look like to you?
SPEAKER_02I just like to start by uh back it up, Tama, and well done, I'm reporting it. Um and just adding to it, we're people before we're colleagues, right? Um we're all people here trying to do a job. Um, and I am similar to Tama, where I'm like, if if I see something, I will sort it. Uh like I I am I am the one you text. Get BTP, text me, I'll see it say it sort it. Like, um, however that looks like. Um, yeah, well well done on reporting it because that's just can't be telling where it is. It just can't. Um so yeah, well done on that. Um but good support for women in tech, I think it it's like a lot of sort of STEM fields that or any field really that doesn't have a lot of female representation is I think we could do some myth busting. Um because the there's still the idea that it's this male-dominated environment. Um and yeah, don't get me wrong, like obviously the stats proved that like it mostly is, but that it is it can be quite intimidating. I I try and push it out of my mind, but every so often it does creep up. So the other day, uh we have like a daily stand-up, and I walked into it, and we we don't have many female colleagues in in this particular team. And I walked in and none of like my my women colleagues could make it, and it was just me. And I realized I was in a room just with like 12 men. I was like, oh, actually, this is a little bit intimidating. Yeah, no, it is. And like obviously I I know them, they're all terrible fine, like they're lovely people. But it was just that initial walking into a room and being like, oh, there's a lot of dudes in here. So yeah, I think we good support for women in tech. We just I don't know how we do it. If I had a magic wand, obviously we'd fix it, but just being like, you know, Dalskal, we've got this. Like uh Ruby was mentioning, just like, you know, you've got this. It's okay, like we can do it, and if not, we'll find a way for us to do it. Like we always have, and we always will. We're you know, we're women, we we always manage. Um we could do anything. Um in terms of what good support would look like, sort of in in my immediate environment, I think it was like I was saying about my manager, is finding those opportunities to grow and actually being able to go for them as well. It's all very well and good saying, Oh, like you need to develop XYZ, but then here I'm gonna bury you under a workload so you can never get to those opportunities. Um, actually being allowed to pursue those opportunities or pursuing something that you're just interested in. So we have time that we can take, we call it 10% time, where we can just take a couple hours out of our week to do something that we want to look at. And so whether that's you know, learning a new language or just studying up about something. So I'm currently studying up and about A-B testing, so I can get more involved in that kind of area. Um, and I'm just allowed to do that. They're like, yeah, take that time, you know, put in time with your colleagues again, like going to uh an amazing female colleague who absolutely knows A B testing back to front. So I'm going talking to her about it, and we're both using that time. So she's using it to as her development to coach people, I'm using it as my development to learn. Um Yeah, it's just being able to pursue those opportunities, I think.
SPEAKER_03Super important. No, not at all. I think I think you're absolutely right that there's having opportunities, but also being enabled and supported to go for them is a really, really important thing. And um yeah, I I would completely agree with you as well on the the intimidation that it can feel it can feel very intimidating being in a room where you are the only women, even if you know and like and get on really well with all your male colleagues. It is that feeling of everybody in this room has got a very different lived experience to me, and that that is then harder to communicate if you're the only one. Really, really brilliant um thoughts there, folks, on on what we need to be doing. Um, so we know that progress has been made. Um, we've seen more women taking up STEM subjects as well over the years, which is really great. And we've been moving into tech roles. I've seen the change in the number of women in tech as well. I know that similarly to many of you, I was usually the only woman or one of only a couple of women in teams that I've worked in in tech. According to the Lovelace report, which is a really, really good read, by the way, um, by Oliver Wyman and We Are Tech Women, we know that women are often leaving the tech industry due to lack of opportunities and progression, as well as a lack of recognition. And I know that recognition was something I think Toba, you really pointed out early on that was something that we need to be recognizing things, and it's come up a few times in a lot of what we've said. Um, but actually, people think that women are leaving tech for childcare reasons or not being ambitious enough, and actually the research shows that's not true, it's um because they're not getting the opportunities um and the progression that they want. So it's real really links quite nicely to what you were just saying there, Becky, around actually being able to go for those opportunities as well. Um, so we're we're coming to the end of our podcast um episode, but thinking bigger picture for a moment, we've got great women in tech, we've got great women who are also unfortunately dropping out of tech because of some of the reasons I've just mentioned. So, what needs to change in the tech industry for more women and more diverse voices generally to thrive? What barriers have you seen or experienced and what could make the biggest difference to future learners in this space, do you think?
SPEAKER_00I think that following in with some of the theme of our conversation, normalizing different routes into our career paths would be great. Um, we've proven that not everyone comes from a computer science or a traditional academic pathway, and I think that's a really good thing. There's diversity in background, which brings diversity in thinking. Um, for example, I've done a lot of upskilling in statistics and machine learning, and I wanted to explore those methods properly, so that's why I started this master's at BPP. It's helped me build a lot of confidence technically, um, and it's also helped me learn into what I can bring from other areas of my life. So I used to be a little bit ashamed of being like a university dropout in the arts, like it never felt like good enough for my career. But I think since I've been going through my career, my arts background's really shaped how I think about data visualization and my love of English literature, which um yeah, I could really relate to, influences how I tell stories with data. And through my assignments, some of my feedback's been how the marker really likes my storytelling style and helping make complex topics more understandable. And I really think that's such an undervalued skill in our sector that complexity doesn't have to sound complicated. I think there's a lot of um a lot of expectation that because you're in a data professional role, you need to sound complex in how you present stuff. And I just think it shuts so many non-data people out that if there's anything that could change for people to thrive in tech, especially like um relating to Becky and clinicians who want to get more into data analysis, but they might not know the coding language to help with that. How can we try and make complex things sound less complicated to enable that? I think that would really support the change.
SPEAKER_03For people that are listening, I'm like nodding furiously here at what Ruby's saying because I I could not agree more. I think that accessibility of language is such a huge thing. And I I come from also having a very different background of work into it now, but I also um did English um and linguistics as a as a first degree, so I've come from a very different background too. So um, yeah, completely, completely agree that you know making things simple and easy to understand would be a massive change for people. And very often, I know from my experience of mentoring people moving into data and data science and tech, one of the biggest confidence issues has normally been people who just kind of don't know the lingo. And once you say it's not complicated, this is what it means. People go, Oh, is that it? Yeah, that that is it. So, yeah, really, really love that one. Um, Ruby, thank you. Um, Toma, Becky, thoughts.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I love what Ruby said, I completely agree. I think we need to stop putting people in boxes because you know, I did the creative writing degree, and then sometimes people kind of make fun of me. It's like, oh, they see it as kind of useless experience, but I don't think it's useless. All the experience that we have throughout our life and career makes us who we are today. And uh I don't like it's part of who I am. I don't I wouldn't be the person I am now if I hadn't done that. And I mean, I'm sure Ruby feels the same and she sees the benefits of that. So just like like let's stop putting people in boxes. We need to stop seeing women working in tech as like novelty and something weird. We're just as capable of doing this as like men. Like, I just think it's just so strange. Uh, because the more women choose this career in tech, the more role models we will have for younger generations, which means that there will be more women in the future inspired to choose this career too. Um, I actually have a few very successful women in my family. So I have a cousin and an auntie who are very successful in their tech careers. So for me, that didn't seem like a strange thing to do for myself. And I also have two teenage sisters who recently started university and then they both chose very technical fields as well. So I feel I feel good about the future. I think things are looking bright, and the future is gonna be wonderful. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Super positive note. I love that, Thoma. Um, and I just I love that message of stop putting people in boxes. Like I completely, completely agree. And we're all sitting here nodding. I think we're all agree agreeing with you that that's that's a real sort of limitation. Um, and more role models is definitely only going to be a good thing for for getting more women into this space, which is great.
SPEAKER_02As with a lot of topics, it's it'll all be connected and webbed, and that there's a lot of complexities going around. And you know, I think uh it was Ruby who mentioned earlier, like generally women have a lot more life admin and responsibilities to take on outside of work. Um yeah, that there's a whole host of that that could be another three-hour rant from me about how we can change that. We'll save it for another podcast.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. We'll do we'll do a ta a TED talk series on it.
SPEAKER_02Um no, but I think it yeah, I can only really agree with what's already been said, is that we we're already showing that it can be done. We just need a way to sort of amplify that message. And there are some, you know, as Thomas said, like it's happening. We can see the changes starting to happen. And it won't be an overnight change. Um, it will be those little by little baby steps. But yeah, I think we just need to keep up the good fight. Like, we're we're doing a fair bit, I think, or at least from what I can see. Like, we've got organizations, um, like I go to some meetups, um, and a few of my colleagues do as well. There's like Herb Lust Data. Um, in Manchester, and we've got like uh a specific one. I think there's like women in Tech North. Um there's things like this with the university, and I'm sure the other universities around and up and down the country um all have something similar. Um I think we just need to keep going as as we always have done. We just need to keep shouting ourselves, and I think possibly as well, as women, and possibly as women in tech compounds it. I don't think we're very good at singing our own praises. And I think we need to be obnoxious. We we need to go for it. We need to be like, do you know what? I'm gonna tell my story, and it's interesting, and you can do it too. Whatever you want to do, you can do it. And I think it's similar to, as Ruby said, there's not one way in. I think in general, there's this thought of right, you study a thing and that's what you have to do till you know you retire. And that's just absolutely not true. I think we need to say more about that in general as well, maybe not just in tech, but in whatever career's advice we're giving to young people. It's like, yes, consider this decision. But if it turns out you don't like it, you can change. There's routes, there's options, like nothing's permanent. You know, I was uh I've got quite a uh I live in quite a small town in the north. So my dad got an apprenticeship at 16 and he's there now. He's nearly 60, he's he's looking to retire, right? He's worked in one place his entire life. And when I was moving jobs and careers and stuff, it's like, oh, we just stay in one place. And like, that's not how it works now. That's just not that's not the that's just not how careers generally work now. You don't get a job at 18, and that's that's you for life. That's you can wiggle, you can move, there's all this flexibility and all these options. And I think if we can tell our young people that that does it's hard to get these opportunities like the job market, let's not even go there. Again, that's another 16-hour TED talk from me, but there are options and we can move and change and grow, and that there's ways to do that. Um it's just hard to find. So I think we need to be given those options and given that information and making it more accessible to our young people. Yeah, sorry, that's that that's that was a rumble again.
SPEAKER_03Excellent points. No, really, really well made. And I think um keep going is a really, really good tagline. Um, but you know, there's a lot of, as you said, there's a lot of great stuff going on. Keep doing it. Um, and also that that thing of get better at singing your own praises. I completely, completely agree with that. And something I've said to so many people that I've mentored and otherwise in the past is you are the only person that has got your best interests at heart. As much as everybody else around you might, you know, want things for you. You are the only person 100% dedicated to getting new places. So you do have to champion yourself. So I fully, fully um appreciate that that comment as well, Becky. Um, and also that point around changing. Um, I think it's really, really, a really good one, a good message for people earlier in their careers as well to know that you know, don't get so stuck on making the decision of what your career is going to be. Change is is is normal now in careers, and actually it's it's necessary and it's also better than staying in the same place. Um, so yeah, change. If you don't like something, move. You know, we're we're not stuck in those same years of, like you say, having a career for a long time in one place.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, and I think let's say back to me at 18, like how I I was I was a fool. I was AC, I was I was a baby. How how are you expecting to make huge decisions about the rest of their life? Absolutely. What on earth?
SPEAKER_03You can't put that on him. That's that's crazy. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I think it's better that we now do embrace more sort of um flexible career paths, and I can't imagine being sort of from the previous generations where you had to go into a career and then stick in it for like a long time because there's so much more scope to learn new stuff now, which is awesome. Um so we have come to the end of our um episode. I could I could carry on talking with all three of you for ages. I've got like had such an awesome conversation. So um I'd love though, before we finish, for each of you to share a short final thought. So maybe a message for other women entering tech or something you believe is important about giving to gain.
SPEAKER_00I think for me, give to gain is all about passing belief forward. Um, my advice for anyone starting out is to say yes to the things that scare you a little. You don't have to feel ready, you grow into the role. I think a lot of people are held back because they feel like they need to tickle the boxes, but you will grow. Um, if you're in a position to support others, give your time, your kindness, and your encouragement, um, and just something to take away in terms of give to gain. When you give people the space, the belief, and the trust, you gain so much more in return, you get stronger teams, you get better ideas, and you get a culture that genuinely lifts everyone.
SPEAKER_03Beautifully put. Thank you so much, Ruby. Toma, Becky, you must go next.
SPEAKER_04Well, me. Go on. I literally have like one final message for all women in tech. So I just want to say do not ever be afraid of any challenge. Never apologize for being yourself, and do not let anyone ever tell you that you do not belong in this space. That's all.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love that. I love that. There's getting we're there's a lot of love on the screen here that I'm sure the listeners won't be able to see. But we're we're um, yeah, love that message, Thomas. Thank you for sharing it. Becky, what's your your takeaway message?
SPEAKER_02Um I just think it's easy to seek it, you can do it. And that founds, you know, sweet day and TB and everything, but you can do it. Yeah, you can. It's a long you do it, you can find a way to do it. And happy we reach out to others in the lab. And I'll be sure to put it. And it's not like Ronnie does. You can always do it.
SPEAKER_03What a great message to end on. Thank you so much, Becky. Um such a brilliant note to end on with all of those amazing pieces of advice. Um, what an inspiring first episode about women plus tech podcast. Thank you all so much. Um, so with that, let's bring our first ever Women Plus Tech episode to a close. Ruby, Tom, and Becky, thank you so much for joining me today and for being part of our very first episode. Your stories and your reflections and your honesty are exactly what this podcast is all about, creating that space for real experiences and real voices in tech. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, keep an eye out for more conversations with women and allies who are shaping the future of tech. And if you are interested in being on an episode, even if you've never done it before, and actually, especially if you've never done it before, um, get in touch. And remember, folks, supporting others is how we grow and how we build the kind of tech community that we want to be a part of. So thank you for listening. Thank you to our wonderful guests. Happy International Women's Day 2026, and we'll see you in the next episode.