Exploring Mental Health in Tech : Are You Ignoring the Signs of Your System Overload?

 In this landmark episode of TechSphere, host Idris Fabiyi sits down with a "Mental Health Powerhouse" of colleagues from the BPP School of Technology: Minal (Performance Manager), Craig, and Rizwan (Degree Apprentice Coaches). 

As the tech industry continues to demand an "always-on" mentality, this panel explores the critical need to prioritise the human beings behind the machines. The conversation dives deep into the early warning signs of burnout—from persistent fatigue to emotional detachment—and provides a roadmap for "Refactoring" your mental health hygiene. 

Key highlights include:

• Neurodivergence Unmasked: Craig shares his personal journey with ADHD and Bipolar disorder, offering a unique look at the "superpower" and the struggle of hyperfocus in a technical environment . 
• Psychological Safety: Minal explains how leaders can foster an environment where it is safe to fail, allowing for a "Growth Mindset" that strengthens team culture. 
• Community Support: The team discusses vital external resources like Andy’s Man Club and Mind, emphasising that "asking for help" is the hardest—and most important—technical skill to master. 
• Actionable Resilience: From mindfulness and movement to the importance of "Safe Spaces," the panel provides practical tips for professionals and learners alike to foster a sustainable career . 

This episode is more than a discussion; it is a commitment to building a technical future that is as empathetic as it is innovative. 

I'm Idris Fabiyi, Head of Technology and Innovation at BPP University, Estio Training, Firebrand Training & host of the TechSphere podcast. I'm on a mission to demystify complex technology and make it accessible for businesses and learners.

Follow me on LinkedIn: Idris Fabiyi

My Medium.com profile: Read my Articles

Get in Touch: idrisfabiyi@bpp.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:04

Hi, and welcome to this episode of BPP Text Fair. I'm your host, Idris Fabi. In this episode, we're going to be joined by three of my wonderful colleagues. We're going to be joined by Minal, who is a performance manager at BPP. And we're going to be joined by Craig, who is a degree apprentice coach, along with Rizwan, who is also a degree apprentice coach. So before we start, Minal, please do tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hello, yes. So my name is Minal. I'm a performance manager in the School of Technology. I've been at BPP for five years now, and I manage a high-performing team in degree apprenticeships. We manage everything to do around the delivery of the apprenticeships and the coaching element of the program, essentially. I have a coaching and training practice as well. So I work with organizations to help their staff thrive and flourish. And that is through lots of training that I provide with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

Awesome. Craig, tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yes, I'm Craig. I'm one of the degree apprentice courses here at BPP. Being part of the BPP group as a whole, uh, it'll be three years at the end of this month. Um and I'm actually quite excited about this podcast because I'm somebody who lives with as a neurodivergent. Um, and yeah, I'm looking forward to looking forward to the topics that we're going to discuss.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Awesome stuff. Thank you. And Riz One, last but not in the least.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay, so my name's Riz One. People call me Riz for sure. I have been coaching in the degree apprenticeship since 2017 across all level six programs at School of Tech at BPP, including some level sevens. Um, yes, so I have also got a teaching background. I used to teach before doing degree apprenticeships, coaching since 2012 in in technology. I love working with students, love working with staff and across all kinds of discussions, special around learning and um well-being.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

Awesome stuff. You know, if I could title this this elite team that I have with me, I would title you guys the mental health first aiders or the the mental health force because I want us to focus on this episode on the mental health behind the people at work in tech. Yeah, so something that is very, very interesting with um the members of the panel is three of or three of you have mental health first aiding. And that's one of the reasons why I thought it'd be really awesome to get you on this podcast. And so um, yeah, let's talk about mental health. Let's talk about the the elephant in the room, the things that people um fear most about talking about mental health when it comes to work. Uh, you know, we're quite lucky in BPP here that we do have um, if you like, a department entirely dedicated to trying to improve the mental health and the uh the experience of working at home or working remotely. And so it'd be really, really awesome if we could you know just unpack all the all the all the myths, all the discussions that people really, really want to know when it comes to mental health and what it's like to deal with mental health, especially in the workplace. Because as people who work with tech, you know, these are things that are not necessarily um at the forefront and people don't necessarily talk about. So I'm absolutely pumped and thrilled to have you all here. So um let's start with Minar. So when you're in the workplace and you feel like you've got this always on moment, you know, we already know uh we all know what those uh moments feel like, you know, where you have a deadline or you're working towards something, you're trying to release software at a particular time and everyone is super, super stressed. Hopefully that that um that moment resonates with with everyone. But what are the early signs that people should look out for before they know they're going to burn or crash out and burn?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think for me, you know, if you're feeling constantly tired, if you're feeling drained, you're feeling run down, you know, even if you've been sleeping loads on the weekend, for example, I think that that really signals that that kind of physical and mental exhaustion. Um, you know, if you're kind of feeling like, you know, you're in meetings and you can't concentrate, you know, you can't remember things, there's maybe a reduced amount of productivity, all those things that are impacting your performance in the workplace, then there's clearly an issue. So I'd say some of those are the key signs that we should all be looking out for. And it can impact everyone. So, you know, whether you're kind of on the front line, you know, here speaking to learners, or if you're you're you're more senior and you're kind of doing more of the strategic work, I think it can absolutely impact anyone. Um, and and those are just some of the signs that could be anything else around, you know, just feeling a bit more detached. Um, you know, maybe you're feeling negative, just kind of cynical, you know, short-tempered, frustrated. All of those things are their signs that are telling us something, and it's telling us that something's wrong, and we shouldn't be ignoring those things, and we should absolutely be noticing them, recognizing them, identifying what's causing them. And we might do that on our own, or maybe we, you know, we do that with somebody else. But I'd I'd definitely say some of those are some of the first signs of burnout.

SPEAKER_06 6:00

So thank you for that. And you know, I think um just hearing some of these signs that you're speaking about, you know, it's quite possible um I might have burnt out. It's quite possible I might have burnt out many times before and not necessarily known. You know, so when we think about what a burnout is, what what uh could you describe or articulate if you could, what a typical burnout um manifests itself as?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, absolutely. So again, it's it's that kind of physical exhaustion, as I said, but it can stem from anything. It can be sort of prolonged excessive stress, um, and that can be inside of work, it can be outside of work, it could be just things compounding. It's those persistent fatigue kind of symptoms, headaches, you know, it's impacting your sleep. Maybe there's some physical sickness, physical kind of health issues as well that doesn't necessarily um resolve with getting that rest. Um from an emotional kind of mental perspective, there's that you know feeling of hopelessness. Maybe you're feeling lonely as well, because actually, you know, everyone else seems to be getting on fine. What's wrong with me? And then that can lead into loads of other issues as well. Um, but yeah, that that that's what I would say would be some of the things to look out for, and that you know, that feeling of kind of helplessness and detachment.

SPEAKER_06 7:28

Thank you, Minal. And um, you know, I'll move on to someone in a in a second, but you know, I just want to highlight some of the things that you do outside of uh work. Because in work, I know you as Minal, the performance manager, do a great job, but you actually run a practice outside of work um where you um could you could you talk talk to us in more detail about what it is that you uh what you uh what you work on?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, absolutely. So I work, I do some one-to-one kind of individual coaching with people, and it's usually around things, you know, coaching is for people who want change. So in any area of their life, essentially, um, I generally tend to work with people that are looking to maybe work on their habits. You know, something's not quite right, and they, you know, they've got a goal in mind, or this is where I want to be, this is how I want to feel, and I kind of work with them on that individual basis to really break down and explore loads of different things so that we can get them there. Um, you know, and that's it takes a lot of vulnerability and um, you know, self-respect to to to coach yourself, well, to to be coached, because you've got to put yourself forward, you've got to be wanting to talk about things that maybe you find challenging to speak about, or you know, you might not want to unearth. So that there's all of those things as well. But it's so rewarding and it's so wonderful to see people come out the other side, see them grow, see them develop. It's just absolutely fantastic. Um, on the on the kind of group side, I work with organizations and I deliver personal and professional development workshops. So that can be any sort of topic, you know, from developing healthy habits to, you know, developing psychological flexibility to mental health resilience, mental fitness, anything at all. So um there's a vast range of topics. There's there's so much research out there that I sort of package together and I create some really interactive, engaging sessions. And um yeah, I just love it. It just brings me to life. I love bringing people together and yeah, it's just great.

SPEAKER_06 9:30

Oh, it really is really, you know, it's really wonderful. So remarkable that you can uh make that kind of impact um on so many people. You know, so I do commend you for things like that, you know. And so when we when we think about crash out, we think about you know, a lot of the warning signs that you said there, because I really do, you know, reflect on what you're saying. And maybe I've been close to or perhaps I've been crashed out before or burnt out, and I've not really spotted the signs. Because as a as a programmer, um, I think I've over the years developed a a um a terrible habit of poor sleep hygiene and you know my sleeping times and things like that, you know. So it might actually be possible that um I've not been paying enough attention to my mental health in in those in those areas. You know, has uh has anyone else on the panel got any suggestions when it comes to um dealing with um or spotting the warning signs when it comes to burnout? What is how does it manifest itself for you guys?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

I think the the big the biggest thing is is kind of understanding you from an individual standpoint because we can always have a look and generalize things, or how that might appear for me might be different to how it appears for you, the people in in in in this chat. You know, I think everybody uh everybody has a burnout in a different way and it always has to say affects them differently. I think being aware of yourself and no more kind of admitting that you might need a little bit of support, that you might be having a bit of a burnout. You know, I think not not to put a genderization on it, but I think from a male standpoint, admitting that there's an issue is kind of the hardest part. You know, at least you don't want to be seen as like the old perception of weak and this, that and the other. But I think you know, I think from a work-based standpoint as well, people don't want to potentially let other people down, you know, that that that sort of thing as well. So I know that that that that's a sort of thought of process that I sometimes go through.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

Well, and uh the you know, I'm glad that you mentioned the the um the stereotypical um perception of what men should do and you know how men should behave, you know, because uh these are the things that uh a bit uncomfortable in society, but you know, yeah, that they are very, very valid.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah. Can I just add to that? Yes, uh just echoing what Craig mentioned is very difficult. Uh I mean I speak for myself, um again, many will agree. Uh we you know, whenever we heading towards burnout, we just would some people just will admit it, we just carry on and carry on, carry on, and have this kind of sense of fear of being judged. So, you know, if you're gonna be a judge, you just carry on until things get out well, maybe too much, and that's when you realize hang on a minute, I should have done something.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, um, we spend a lot of time at work with the c people we work with, with our colleagues, you know, and um it really can't be underestimated the impact work has on us, you know, and uh we all work in various uh different types of roles, uh, but if um you were a manager of uh I know, for example, Minal, you're a manager, how would you suggest that um managers help build a healthy environment for their uh for their staff?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, I think that happens in multiple ways. I think the first thing is obviously you know creating that psychological safety. So when you're in team meetings, for example, giving an opportunity to speak up, you know, allowing people to share their views and um allowing people to to feel comfortable admitting that they might have made mistakes, for example. And I think that can also happen in those one-to-one conversations with you know, with the direct reports, absolutely should be happening. Um, but also in that team space of psychological safety and being able to, you know, encouraging people to to share resources that they've produced or you know, all of that creativity that they can kind of build as well, I think is really important. Um so it's it's sort of about you know, providing that positive reinforcement. So when someone is doing really well, and then also coaching them through when, you know, maybe there has been a mistake that's been made, and actually, well, what what can we learn from this? What can you do differently next time? And all those really powerful reflective questions are really important to be able to instigate that that sustainable change. Um awesome. Yeah, I'll stop that.

SPEAKER_06 14:22

So yeah, so what I'm getting from that is um it's it's building that environment. Um, the fail. How did you how did you uh explain that then? I can't remember the word you said. Um, but you you know, you you suggested that you know it's okay to um to possibly not achieve something or not get it right. It's that it's that um it's that environment to you know to make people feel it more safer.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

It's absolutely that. And I think if if we if the manager comes with a mindset of, you know, look, I've made mistakes before. This is what I this is this is and they could if they could provide examples and say, you know, this is what happened to me once, and actually what I learned from that was this, and I grew because of that, and then that that that gave me this opportunity, you know, it's actually what that does is it kind of diminishes that failure in a way, but in a really creative way, because what it does is help people to recognize that just because I've messed up once or I've made a mistake or failed at something, it doesn't mean that, you know, it's one that you're gonna fail again, or that two, that thing's never gonna happen, or you know, you're never gonna get that job, for example. It's it's about what you learn from those experiences because those negative experiences help us to learn something about ourselves. And if we can tap into that and recognize, okay, well, you know, what am I learning about myself in this process? What am I moving away from? What am I drawn to? You know, all those types of things. What can I do differently next time? If we can adopt that's that type of mindset, and that is exactly what we need to be doing. It's about building that kind of growth mindset as opposed to having this fixed mindset of, oh, I'm messed up, or you know, I'm a failure in life, all that kind of thing. And then we start beating ourselves up over things. Whereas actually, if we do the complete opposite and if the managers and the leaders can kind of exhibit those behaviours as well, then it just helps to lower the stress, you know, that that might be um associated with any kind of failure, but it also helps us to improve our mental health. And then when we can do that in a safe space as well around other people, then that's that's even better because it builds really team, you know, really strong team cultures and um it can strengthen that team inclusion and belonging. So all of those things are happening in the background, and you might not necessarily see it, but it's happening and it's it's it's wonderful when it does because what it shows is that people feel valued and respected and they know that they can bring their full selves to work, which is which is often what is happening.

SPEAKER_06 16:53

Awesome, thank you. When it comes to uh coping mechanisms, um for example, let's say I was someone who was uh fully aware of the warning signs that you know I was uh about to become um burnt out or you know I might have a crash in some in some form. Um when it comes to ways to uh cope, uh Craig, have you got any any suggestions for ways people could manage the stressful times at work and ways they can um you know embrace uh a more healthier mental health hiding?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yeah, again, it it's kind of unique to the individual, but from from my perspective, um I must admit uh the support I get is is really really good. So um obviously Mel's my manager and one of the things that she always says is, you know, if you need to step away, if you need to take that break, go ahead and do it, sort of thing, you know. Um for me that that kind of stepping away could be going down and sitting downstairs for for ten minutes or something like that. Um it could be grabbing the iPad and doing a bit of drawing, you know, just kind of getting away from that headspace a little bit just to to kind of switch off and to kind of know where I'm at with things. Um but it is as I say it is it is unique to the individual. Um one thing I I I did was when I was a teacher, I I I I was I was doing a a health and well-being session with a group of seven kids, which is like 11 to 13. Eleven eleven to twelve you'll sorry. And one of the things that I did there was about promoting well-being, health and well-being. Now that as I said to them, it can it that can manifest differently for different people. So I've got I've got a friend, um, him and his family, they always go around the parents' house on a Saturday afternoon and the put the coop of a massive banquet. Um, I say banquet, a massive buffer really, in all honesty. Um, and they sit and chat about the week. There's about 15 of them that sit and chat about the week. What's happened with them? Uh one of my other friends does a lot of streaming on Twitch. You know, it it it's it it can be different things for different people, but you know, you've you've got to be very self-aware of it and understanding kind of your your your kind of safe space. Um bit of a bit of a random link, but the uh the movie Happy Gilmore with Adam Sander came out years ago, they remade it, they did a second one not recently, not that not that long ago. But he was encouraged during like when he was trying to concentrate on being able to put property by going to his happy place, and it's kind of known what the happy place is for you and understanding that. As I say, that could be taking a step away from your desk, it could be taking a job out for a walk. You know, it could be taking a walk around the block. But just being aware of what that is for you.

SPEAKER_06 19:40

Yeah, that's really, really good. And you know, for those who are listening, if you're not sure or not aware of what your um what your happy place is to put it, like Craig's, you know, yeah, there's some very good examples of things you could try. You know, stepping away from your desk, um, having a walk, you know, uh playing on the iPad, things like that. Um Rizwan, have you got any suggestions?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yes. Uh, first of all, I mean, when from experience and what I do is and you know, the support I have is talking to each other. I mean, I've got lovely we know. I speak to Craig quite often, I speak to other colleagues in the team, you know, who well, after talking, I feel so much better about myself. And, you know, we share ideas and thoughts and say, look, this is normal. You will feel stressed at times, but you know, and you will be feeling stressed at certain times is what can you do? So things around I go for walks, I love going to the gym, I love walks, my diet, I really focus on my diet. Everything you know that I'm doing really, really helps. Uh, just knowing that we've got a lovely team at School of Tech, you know, knowing people around you care about you, you know, and the support, you know, support details we have. We've got Andy Mann's club, for example, which I utilize and stay in contact with. We've got other to support, you know, contact details. You voluntarily, you don't, you know, you'll never be judged. Just talking is absolutely fine, and that makes a huge difference. And and and remembering, look, there are things out there to help you. It doesn't matter who you are, even if you're not even if you're feeling fine, but there's people out there as well to support you, you know, and won't be judged. And I think understanding that, recognizing that, and utilizing that wherever you are would make a big difference. Uh, so that is something you know is definitely there for people uh who really really can make a difference.

SPEAKER_06 21:24

That's wonderful as well. Really appreciate that. And um, you just spoke of uh Andy's Mans Club. Yes. Am I saying that right? Andy's man's club.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yo, could you could you just elaborate on what that is and how Andy Mans Club is based on a true story, somebody you know, um who lost his life, and based on that, they kind of create a group. It started off really small, and now it's all over the UK. I mean, I live not far from Lee's, there's a place called Batley, and every Monday is uh in the library they have Andy Mann's club from 7 pm till 9 pm. So this is not just here. All over the UK, you can look at it online. You may see some signs at supermarkets, people promoting this, or a logo in somebody's bag. It's got an demands club. Again, they're here to support each other. You won't be judged. You're not forced to discuss anything. You know, be yourself. They pass some football round in the room. You sit in a circle. So if you have the football in your hand, it's your turn to talk. If you don't want to talk, just pass the ball over to the next person and just listen. Have a cup of brew, really. That's what they encourage to have a cup of tea, some biscuits, a very friendly place where you know you won't be judged and be yourself. And every so often online on Facebook or social media, um, the one of the leaders or controllers will mention how many new people have walked in today. For the first time, for the first time, yeah, which shows it's growing, and you know, people are utilizing this support, and people many lives will be saved.

SPEAKER_06 22:54

Absolutely wonderful. Honestly, got Gooseborne's um just thinking about that, and you know, and if you don't have anything to say in those environments, yeah, or you feel that there's nothing um nothing going on or in your personal life or anything like that, I think it's also good to lend you know your your time as well um in those kind of circles. It's super powerful. Thanks for sharing that. And um, you know, I think Craig something I happen to know about Craig, he's very modest. You know, he um he doesn't often lead by uh by telling everyone he's a he's a published author, which uh something that is absolutely remarkable. But Craig, could you just talk to us about the origins origins of you being a writer and you know what's what's uh what the stories and the things behind um your writing?

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Just that interest. Um yeah, so it's so it was something I'd always wanted to do. Um and something I I'd I I don't mind disclosing this, but I have ADHD and bipolar. And anybody that has kind of newer diversity, especially around ADHD, um, will understand the term hyperfocus, which basically means you can get stuff done in next and no time. So I wrote uh my first crime model a couple of years ago now, and I wrote the the entire novel in a week when I've sat around the pool and I was on holiday with my family. Um the second one that I did, um I actually uh from the sales from it, um I actually made a donation to Andy's Mind Club, which one because I I used the Andy's Mind Club service, went uh went the some of the sessions uh on numerous occasions. And I'll be honest with you, in terms of what Riz was just saying there, it was I think it was the fifth or sixth session where I actually started the talk and kind of go through what I was gone what I'd gone through. Um so my my my second book was from a personal standpoint, it was quite a tough book to write. Um, so I've had a I've I've I've gone through a lot of trauma in in in the past. Um my second book was based around a little bit of that. Um so yeah, it was the some of the topics I tried to talk about in them is stuff that's different and that people don't necessarily talk about so much in like crime novels and things like that. So the first one was around online grooming and on social media platforms, second one was around domestic abuse, but with a male victim. Um obviously I appreciate the statistics and stuff. Sure, obviously that females are the uh the highest rate of victims of it. Um, but one of the things that I also found out about that was when I was doing a bit of research around it, um, in the area where I live, so I live in the northeast, um, there is 14 um support centres and homes for women and and and families escaping domestic abuse. Um just out just out of curiosity of this, would you like to have a guess at how many there is in my my area for men?

SPEAKER_04 26:00

There's 14 for women.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah, 14 for women.

SPEAKER_06 26:06

Do you mean for a domestic abuse for men? Yes. I wouldn't imagine there would be any.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

There's none. There is none. And as I say, the statistics show that that is the case, but that going through that myself had a profound effect on my mental health.

SPEAKER_05 26:23

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Um, really, really, I got to the lowest of low points you can imagine. Um, however, you know, I came out the other side of it. Um I came up the other side of it because of a support network that I was able to set up. Um I met people at I went to college, met people there, met people at university, um, reconnected with my family, um, met my um my wife, my the absolute amazing person that she is, built me back up from the ground. But knowing that I had that support network there was a big thing. But the biggest thing for me was getting that diagnosis around my bipolar. And it explained so much, and it allowed me to kind of understand and try and start and put some of these support mechanisms in place. Um, that we mentioned before. Still struggling with it, still not perfect, but yeah, we get there. Well, yeah, like you see, Andy's man club, something that helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_06 27:14

Um super powerful, and um, I know that's deeply personal, and I really do appreciate you um you know sharing that with us. You know, um I think through your uh experience, hopefully our listeners will be able to, you know, gain a uh a large insight and a lot of uh hopefully tools and tips and things that they can try. Because the um yeah, the the Andy's Manth Club does sound really, really amazing. Um for sharing that. And you know, you you did mention um ADHD and uh and bipolar. When someone um needs that confirmation, uh then I believe they then have the tools to face it. You know, once they have the confirmation, they can work towards how they can better support themselves. And you know, you mentioned hyper focus and uh putting your your uh putting your focus towards something you're able to, you know, complete a book within a week, which sounds you know, it does sound amazing. But you know, that is a that is a byproduct of knowing what is unique about you. How how does one um if if someone is struggling um with things like focus, uh, because if I understand correctly, hyper focus doesn't always manifest itself in a positive way.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

No, it really doesn't. Um, and if you if you're in a hyper focus moment and that focus gets broken, you might not go back to that task for months. To give us an example, um yeah, so I'm I'm currently undergoing a PhD at the moment. Um I was doing like my my research and and and stuff like that, and I was getting but I was working through gathering um results, gathering data. And I was in the process of going through all of that, and then something happened um in my home life, which just kind of affected that. And I gathered them results in September, October time, and I still haven't gone back to actually look at them yet.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Um, and that's just because that hyperfocus got broken. Um, you know, thing it can and it doesn't just have to be something like that, it can be anything. You know, it could be you've you might be working on a task at work, you might work something. I mean if you've got the hyperfocus, you can rattle it off the next another time. But if something breaks that focus and that concentration, I just want to say one thing as well though, in terms of getting the diagnosis, it's so hard. You know, I mean, I was on the waiting list uh with the NHS for seven and a half years, give what's kidding. I'm still technically on the waiting list. Um, but if it hadn't been for the the support that I get from BPP, um, you know, and I I probably wouldn't have been able to get get that diagnosis, I'd probably still be waiting for it now.

SPEAKER_06 30:13

Goodness means seven years as long as that.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah. So there's a waiting list of the moment for diagnosis for adults is roughly about eight to nine years.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

Wow. And is that because we are adults?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, it's just because of the the the lack of the the lack of support that there is. And I'm not I'm not I'm not gonna beat on the NHS because I I'm a firm believe Robert's a victim of its old success. Um but the services are just not there. You know, the the the the support and the services aren't there. Um and that's why I think having I I have I I think for me moving over to the team that I'm now part of, obviously, with with Manel and Mayz and the other guys in our team, the they've been fantastic, you know, in terms of supporting people, supporting each other. I've I've never felt in a team I've ever been this supporting as well as well as what I am, genuinely. Um you know, and I think it it is hard to open up when you when you are struggling, you know, and I think that that's the case. And but you know, it's not just a case of getting that diagnosis and bang straight away, you know, you can get sorted. You need to get that support from the right from the right place and the right people.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Amazing. Thank you so much. And you know, um, so am I right? Because it's the NHS, the the first port of call for anyone who did want to sadly join the the waiting list, unless they have um amazing facilities and uh support at work as such as you, but is the first port of call to visit your GP.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah. So you would go to your GP uh speak to them about it. There is places like Mind and the Mental Health. They can look MIND, M-I-N-D. Um the there's there's local supports. Um your GP can recommend it to them for things like CBT, so cognitive behaviorable behavioral therapy. Um, but again, it also courses work for some people, it doesn't work for others. Um, but yeah, your first protocol would be to to contact your GP. Um, and then they can put recommendations in place, they can support you. Um I will say though, sometimes not all the support that you get is the most beneficial. So I um I was getting support uh from a mental health professional, and their answer was here's this medication, here's this medication. Um and followed that up with my friend's a pharmacist, you know, you can get it to me the same day. Um you know, but it's it's about having that right support in place, but you've got to you've got to understand and accept the fact that yes, okay, you may need a little bit of support to understand it better, but that's not a weak and not a weakness. Um something that in in one of my favourite books, uh one of the quotes that's in it is what's the hardest thing, what's the hardest thing you've ever done? And uh the response is ask for help.

SPEAKER_05 33:12

Wow, very powerful.

SPEAKER_06 33:15

Wow, and so if um if you were uh a leader, then I know we asked something similar um to uh Minnow uh very early on, but um interested in your your thoughts. If you're a if you're a leader, you led a team um and you or you suspect someone is struggling or is um you have someone who's near a divergent, and maybe they have ADHD or something, um, you know, what is the um best way to approach a conversation with them? And you know, you you can clearly see they need support. Uh what is the what is the way to approach that? An untrained uh person, is it safe for someone who's untrained to do or is there a um a service that you would suggest that they go to, something like Minal offers? You know, is it is it a safe conversation to have if you're just a uh a team leader, you're a you know, you're a manager, you're an owner in business, and you know that your staff um might struggle.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I think it depends on the relationship you have got. You know, I think you you've you've got you've got to have that relationship to be for people to be able to open up because it isn't an easy thing to do. Um I know from from my own experience and my own thought process, sometimes asking for help in the back of your mind, you might think that people do see that as a sign of weakness. It's like, oh if I and in in the past, I've I've been in workplaces where when I've asked, where I've thought, you know what, I need this support. Um, it's been consumed as a negative thing. So he can't do the job, he can't cope with this, he can't cope with that. And I think there's there's the there's there's a lot of kind of misunderstanding around it. Um but a lot of that comes from the way that it's put across. You know, I mean, I think for for for myself, mean me and Minnesota spoke about this on a on a regular basis. And to be fair, me and Biz have as well. But for me, me controlling my my bipolar might be a case of I don't contribute much in the in the team chat for a for a day or two, just while that if I'm having that kind of a negative thing. One of the things I always try and do is um on a Monday morning, I'll always try and put like a night a like a motivational work quote in uh in the team chat, and I'll try and do it on a Friday as well, on a Friday morning, just to kind of try and help a little bit that way. But a lot of that is because it helps me as well, because it and helps me think, you know what, I need this as well, as as such as other people do. But that initial conversation is never an easy one, especially if it's something that you're only just getting getting to grips grips with yourself, because you may not understand how that works, how that fails. Now, having somebody like Minel as a manager is you know, you know, is is absolutely brilliant because she has that kind of knowledge and understanding of how she can support people with that.

SPEAKER_06 36:17

Yeah, absolutely. And and um something that uh I'm getting out of that um that answer there really is if you do have people in your team or you manage or you lead people, it's really important to have that relationship. Then that's what you're saying, because everything is born from a good, healthy relationship with the people that you um that you work with in your team. You know, so without that relationship, you know, that first conversation, as you say, is difficult. You know, so here's one. You're a uh first aider, a mental first aider, as three of um, in fact, all of you will soon be first aiders in mental health. Um, so I'm I'm quite lucky in in the in the sense, and you clearly have a a good unit in the in your department, which is which is amazing. Can can I ask if you don't mind, what made you? In fact, can I ask you all, what made you want to become a mental health first aider? Because I knew it was a lovely thing, but now I'm hearing it firsthand. I think it's it's a beautiful thing. Really, honestly, what was what was it about it that that made you want to do it?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Okay, I can go with it, Cedris. So uh we have plenty of contact with our learners, even with our team members, you know, every day for hours, for meetings, and there's all these occasions or discussions around well-being and mental health, right? When learners are struggling. So it's only natural, we were always helping learners, supporting learners the best way we can. So we really wanted to kind of you know give it the best support we can. And we knew we could only do that if we get some training. And we knew BPP were you had internal training support for mental health, first day of uh training course, which we attended, which I attended, which I found really useful, coping mechanisms, support, looking for signs, understanding, you know, listening skills, you know, patience, and and really recognizing and supporting learners and staff where possible. And I think having the mental first aid batch, which you which I have on my background when I speak to my learners, is a really good indicator, a really good sign for learners to be themselves and to be open and honest about how they're feeling and the support we offer as as BPP. And of course, we have the wider team network as well. We, you know, together we have a separate team network where you can support each other, you know, whether it's on-site or online or in person, we have so much support as well. And having that kind of you know, extra support in our review calls with our learners, our contact with our learners, and knowing that we can offer them the support really helps the learners really speak up and you know, where we can, you know, support the earlier signs and prevent things from escalating. And that is something you know we all want to do, and to do that we must have some form of trading, and this is the best way for it, and that's why many of us have already done it, are going to be doing it.

SPEAKER_06 39:20

Amazing, and um, and Minal, I suppose for you, Minal, it's not just what made you want to become a first aider, because it speaks a lot to the kind of character you are in your um in your um it feels like I'm uh I'm bloating you up here, but I'm just speaking to the fact that you know you're that passionate about mental health that you've you've developed so many resources and you deliver training. What is it about the mental health and people that you know that that drew you to uh to becoming a mental first aider?

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah, I think I've always just had a really big interest and passion you know in people essentially. Just I'm just so passionate about people and getting the best out of them. And I think when we can cultivate those environments where people feel safe to talk about, you know, maybe they've had a bad day or they've had a big bad week or year or whatever that looks like for them, I think people feel more connected to that organization, for example. They feel more, they feel safe, they feel as though they belong, and all those things that you may not necessarily see from the outside, all those conversations that are happening can really um, you know, kind of what's the word I'm looking for? Um find that path in terms of how successful that organization is can end up being because of the environment that's been cultivated and embedded. Um I think for me personally, yeah, I've just always had an interest in, you know, what makes people stand out. I've always had this really keen passion about people's behaviours, their emotions, their actions, and what drives them to do and act in certain ways. And because I've always had that, I've had a strong passion about um, you know, for psychology, um, which is then when I ended up doing a master's in applied positive psychology and coaching psychology, and as a people manager as well. I think you know, you're working with people. So you need that human side. You need to be able to understand how people work best. So whether that's an energy thing and you know how they're sort of bringing themselves and showing up in the day. So if you can facilitate those conversations as a manager, then you're going to get, you know, you're gonna help make your teams more efficient, more productive, you're gonna make the business more successful. I just don't think those things can't go hand in hand. Do you know what I mean? So I think as a manager, you know, having those really strong coaching skills, um, and then also being able to understand, you know, what drives people as well as, you know, what actually this person's, you know, maybe not having a good time at the moment. That's maybe impacting their productivity. Okay, let's explore, you know, could we potentially do um, you know, whatever it is, making those flexible and reasonable adjustments in the workplace can help someone to feel like, you know, I'm going through a bit of a bad patch at the moment, but actually I'm still showing up as best as I can. My manager's really supportive, and I know that, you know, this is a safe space for me. And that is that is just fundamental. And I think that's so significant in what any manager or leader should ever be doing, you know, and and that is so, so important.

SPEAKER_06 42:35

Amazing, thank you. You know, and um, Craig, what made you want to become a mental first aider?

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Um, I think from personal experience, I've always kind of tried to support people as best I can, support the learners as best I can, and just kind of getting an understanding of how how how how like it's how not we say expected, but seeing from a workplace standpoint. And I think obviously I've got a way I support people uh with it as well. But we I'm looking forward to kind of seeing what I can take away from it from a personal standpoint. Um plus as well, I think it if you're if you're if you've got a passion to help them people, I think but if you're in the job roles that we are, you you do naturally have that passion. Um you want to kind of all be kind of well singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak, you know. So yes, okay, Manel is you guys have got your own way of doing it, I've got my own way of doing it. But we're all kind of kind of come at it from the same perspective. So I'll do my training next week, which I'm I'm really excited about, actually.

SPEAKER_06 43:34

Fantastic. And so what I'm getting out of Illum, or one of the biggest things I've got out of this conversation, guys, is that in order to um to perform at your optimum in any team, obviously there's the mechanics of how your team works and how you mechan uh the mechanics of how your team functions, but at the heart of it is people. People and you know, people just don't run on

SPEAKER_02 44:00

uh on on on hot air we run on feelings you know so uh from what i understood from your answers there in order to get the best out of people you need to be able to relate to the people and understand uh your workforce and understand your team to get the to get the most out of it you know so we're gonna have to bring the um the episode to a close but something that i like to do uh every um every podcast episode is i like to do a a quick fire who's up for it go for it okay so the first question tea or coffee coffee neither I don't drink tea or coffee interesting no hot drinks no hot beverages uh hot chocolate from time to time that's about it yeah um I could say tea but I'm gonna say jai nice nice nice ultimate and if you were to give a 16 year old you some advice what would it be you know oh that's such a tough one um maybe something around you know trusting yourself being patient and you know the world is your voice to get out there awesome great um probably you'll you you will go through times where the light at the end of the tunnel feels like the headlights of an oncoming train but you will get through it and there's good times ahead um kind of remember that if you think from an archery perspective an arrow's gotta be pulled back before it can be let let loose to fly forward well yeah just um just keep going don't you know you're gonna get people who's gonna let you down put you down you know they'll never sing your praises I mean some sometimes you'll do with that just carry on and just keep doing it and don't don't feel there's a competition you're doing it for yourself.

SPEAKER_06 46:06

Amazing and uh just one last question. In school what was your favourite subject and why don't have to think too deep about it.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Oh no sorry I don't English probably awesome Greg um history or geography although fun fact my least favourite subject was uh was actually English despite the fact that I've now written two loose yeah I I had design technology in IT um design technology because I like making things putting things together that's the only chance I ever got to do things like that and it gave me self um you know self-achievement a self-belief and and and yeah and these tech technology side of things I mean you know late 90s early 2000s computers were way different and just doing things on there and and getting things to work playing games and yeah so that was something that got my full attention awesome and um last question for each of you if you could give our listeners one solid piece of advice to to help improve or help foster a healthy mental health hygiene what would that be just make sure you get some exercise out of this walk in definitely walk in every day every other day making sure you are got a you know number of steps in every day I'll keep you going keep you focused keep you feeling refreshed amazing great just learn to be aware of what makes you you and feed into that amazing thank you and Minal Yeah I'd say you know I think it's important to embrace any sort of special interests that you might have so having you know those hobbies can be a a really great source of joy and can be really helpful in kind of managing stress reductions I'd say that and um also anything around um mindfulness and those body-based practices so whether that's deep breathing whether that's meditation yoga whatever that looks like for you um exercise can all help to regulate the nervous system so as Craig kind of mentioned earlier like everyone is unique so one thing isn't going to work for everybody so finding what works for you finding the best times of day for you to do it all of those things and then also if um if there is anything that's come up in our conversation today that's maybe you know unnerves somebody or they're just thinking about something um what I would say is obviously you know go and speak to your GP if you can or try and find a therapist or someone who understands you know maybe um those neurodivergent kind of traits and that can support you.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

And there's lots of help out there you know speaking to people as well is really important as as you know that has been kind of mentioned you know quite a few times in today's session that um yeah just making sure you've got a really good strong you know network of support as well.

SPEAKER_06 49:09

Amazing and um I'll be sure to add your uh details of the service uh that you offer you know just in case there are any other businesses that want to um you know get onto that road of uh good mental health so this was a wonderful episode it was honestly it was a it was a pleasure and an honor to to um share the time with you all um very different to our normal uh tech sphere episodes you know we didn't speak about as much tech but more the people behind the tech so thank you very much for joining me thank you and um yeah thank you take care thank you bye thanks for having us on