Trust Is a Commodity. Here's How You Earn It with Dan Brothers

You might think trust takes months to build. Dan Brothers earned it in a single conversation… by saying almost nothing.

In this episode, Pete sits down with Dan Brothers, CFP and co-founder of Brothers Wealth Management at Edward Jones. Dan brings a rare dual perspective to the conversation: he's spent decades building trust with clients as a financial advisor, and he's also experienced firsthand what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that process for better and for worse.

Through two vivid stories (a personal trainer who showed up in slacks instead of gym shorts and a real estate agent who missed the point entirely), Dan reveals what separates advisors who build loyalty from those who quietly lose it. His central lesson: trust isn't automatically given. It's earned through curiosity, consistency, and the willingness to ask one more question than most people bother to ask.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why trust is an earned commodity and what it actually takes to build it fast.
• How listening before advising creates an immediate foundation of confidence.
• Why asking "dumber" questions leads to deeper understanding and better outcomes.
• How vulnerability in leadership and advising signals sincerity, not weakness.
• Why consistency without ego is one of the fastest trust-builders in any relationship.
• How technology and instant gratification have made trust harder to build.

Ideas Worth Sharing:

• "Trust is earned, and it's not automatically given." - Dan Brothers
• “As I get older and I learn more, I actually find myself asking dumber questions because it helps me understand better, not only from a conceptual perspective, but from an intent perspective.” - Dan Brothers
• “If you're showing that you can be comfortable in your vulnerable state, then it allows them to understand that there's a lot of sincerity and meaning behind what you're trying to do.” - Dan Brothers

About Dan Brothers:

Dan Brothers is a CFP® professional and co-founder of Brothers Wealth Management at Edward Jones in Danvers, Massachusetts, where he works alongside his wife and fellow CFP® Ashley Brothers. After losing his father at 58 and witnessing the financial fallout his unprepared family faced, Dan built his practice around one central question: "What happens when my paychecks stop?"

Resources:

• Dan Brothers | Edward Jones
• Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action by Simon Sinek

Connect with Dan:

LinkedIn: Dan Brothers, CFP®

Connect with Pete:

LinkedIn: Pete Mockaitis

Connect With Us

If you enjoyed this episode, follow The Rise and Fall of Trust wherever you get your podcasts. And if you’re thinking about launching a podcast that builds trust and drives results, that’s our jam. Schedule a free call at Cashflow Podcasting to learn more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I would just assume kind of what they meant, right? Instead of diving deeper into that, like saying, okay, if they said this, then they probably meant this. So we don't have to go down that rabbit hole. Now I'll just pause and be like, hey, I just want to make sure that I fully understand what you what you mean. When you say this, do you actually well tell me more about what you mean?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Welcome to the Rise and Fall of Trust by Cashflow Podcasting. Here we explore how trust is built, broken and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Dan, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Well, I'm excited to dig into your perspectives here. Could you kick us off by doing a little bit of an orientation of who are you and what's your business?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Sure. So I'm a financial advisor, CFP, with Edward Jones and recently just launched a kind of sub-relationship within Edward Jones, which is known as Brothers Wealth Management. So it's my wife and I, our partners in the business, but we represent Edward Jones as a brand and work with a lot of folks in the community of Greater Boston.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Okay. And so wealth management, that's just advising clients on like asset allocation and portfolios, or kind of what's the scope of that?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah. So I guess maybe initially years ago when I got into the business, that's really what it started as. But it's really, you know, it's a real it's evolved quite a bit from that. You know, and I think a few years ago you kind of viewed yourself maybe as somebody's personal CFO. And then I think it's even, you know, really gone beyond that. I think ultimately what we do is we become really life advisors and lifestyle advisors for people over time. So while those are components of things that we do for our clients, I think the more value that we create with our clients is really helping them with kind of the tougher decisions in life. And, you know, one of those big ones is retirement. But um, you know, when it comes down to things like large financial purchases, impact, and it's helping them understand things not only from a dollars and cents point of view, but then maybe from a, you know, how is that going to reward their life and their goals, right? So if I know their goals, then I can help them understand maybe the consequences or potential outcomes by making certain decisions.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, that certainly sounds like a high trust kind of a situation.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

It can be, yeah, absolutely. Words highly used in our in our industry for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Mm-hmm. Well, I'd love to hear a story, if you could, about a time that someone really gained your trust in spades. What what'd they do and how did that come to pass?

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, so you know, in preparation for this um podcast, I was thinking about this question. And, you know, a lot of my relationships are built upon long-standing relationships. Um, although you do have to generate trust pretty fast, whether that person has come to you via, you know, a reference or referral from another client. Um, so there's some implied trust. But I was thinking about answering this question more of in a way that where I personally experienced kind of like maybe a transactional experience that I kind of felt like there wasn't implied trust, but ultimately trust was earned. Um, so I guess the way I'm getting to your question is my father told me a long time ago that trust is earned and it's not automatically given. Now, there's certain caveats to that where he said if a police officer pulls you over, that trust is implied. Um, so you need to immediately have that. But you know, when it comes down to our day-to-day, I think, you know, trust is is an earned commodity. And so I was thinking about this question. And recently I had engaged a personal personal trainer. And I've had some personal trainers before. And I always felt that it was almost a kind of don't, don't worry about what you think. Listen to me, I'm the professional kind of approach. And that that always kind of turned me off. And so I kind of had this wrong headspace paradigm coming into this. And, you know, this experience was totally different than any other experience I had. And it and it felt interesting because I almost felt like I was on the other side of the table from me in what I do every day with my clients. And so this personal trainer started just asking me questions. He came to my office. Um, usually you expect to go to a gym and they're in shorts and a t-shirt and getting down to business. But they came to my office, sat down, you know, with slacks and a button down, and just started in asking me what my goals were. Started asking me what I knew about fitness, you know, what's my experience with fitness and those sort of things. And it really opened my mind to not only is this person trying to understand and really listen of what my goals are and what's important to me, but also maybe try to find out how they could best work with me to help me accomplish those goals. So there was almost an immediate level of trust that was created in that experience. And it really started with kind of, you know, listening before advising, being consistent, and then almost like seemingly having confidence without ego. And to me, I think that that's a that's a huge part of the beginning foundations of any trust relationship. So that was my experience. And when I read that question, I was immediately the story that I went to.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Well, I like that a lot because it I think that's a tendency in many work contexts is like, all right, hurry up, let's go, let's go do the thing. You know, hurry up. And and there, even just like the visuals of this person came into your environment wearing more of a financial advisor attire than a personal trainer attire in person with spending the time, it really just creates a whole, I don't know, mood, vibe, ambiance. Like it's not uh perfunctory or or checkbox or or performative. They genuinely really, really, really mean it that they want to understand your goals and and some detail.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, and it felt way more transparent. And obviously, it created an impact on me to be able to come back and tell that story. I mean, I don't think many, I don't know how many of these um podcasts you've done where somebody's led with a financial, you know, their uh personal trainer and how that how that was their their trust answer to this question. But to me, it was kind of profound because it was, it implied a lot of things to me. It implied somebody who was being simple, but also had a long-term thought process and how we were going to work together. And um, that trust was then continued when we then transitioned from me wearing the mesh shorts and the t-shirt going into my first workout. And so I'm prepared even after that experience with these questions, and maybe it's how I'm wired as a consumer, but I started asking questions about well, how do I pay you? You know, when do we start? You know, how do I, you know, do I Venmo you or do we are you gonna bill me? How does that work? And he said, listen, let's just go through the first couple of workouts. Let's make sure you're comfortable. You like, you'll see the way that I work with you, the way you work with Macy, what you like and what you don't like, and then we'll take it from there. Usually, maybe the way I'm I'm wired, being somebody who's from New York and typically skeptical when somebody won't answer a question, what something costs? Um, I, you know, I was, I was surprisingly, because the trust he built in up front was surprisingly okay with that approach. And uh afterwards, it was completely reasonable cost of what I expected to pay in the beginning, but the cost became an afterthought. And and to me, it was such a masterful way of building a relationship in a very short period of time in a transactional type, typically a transactional type relationship, but immediately made it a very close relationship. And that's why it stood out for me as an answer to, you know, why was that, you know, give me an example of trust. I mean, that was to me one of the fastest ways that I was to trust somebody. And then I started to feel, okay, these are the qualities that I use in my own meetings with my clients to try to build that trust with them. So to see it in in this setting was was refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, that's really cool. And it's intriguing. And I don't know if you were experiencing this, but this happens to me and sometimes maybe I'm like watching a webinar or something, and and someone's like discussing the offer. And I have a hard time thinking about much more than how much does it cost? How much does it cost? How much does it cost? It's like I'm not even fully present and listening because I'm wondering that. And I've seen some webinars, they they flip it in terms of and I I found it powerful because they they really called me out. It's like, hey, just so you're not thinking about this, this is an investment of X dollars. So now let's talk about what that really can can consist of. And I was like, well, well, thank you. Now I am not wondering, and I'm really listening. And and so here, I'm wondering if if there you are doing the first couple workouts, kind of in the dark about pricing, is that where your brain was going?

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, it was a little bit in the beginning, but you know, it not so much because I I was so captivated by the conversation about really why was he sitting here in the first place, right? And that's one of the first questions that I ask a lot of my clients or or prospective clients when they come into the office is you know, what made you come today? Right? What is it that may, you know, of all the times that you may have engaged a financial advisor or may have wanted to reach out to sit down with somebody, what was the triggering point that started this? What made you take this approach? So I think I was kind of caught up in that um because I'll tell you, in the example you just used, you know, we're in like a clickbaity type society right now. Everything's kind of got a hook to it. So I don't know why my brain really didn't immediately gravitate to that, because that's that is typically how I'm wired. But then I kind of started to challenge that paradigm after this experience. And I'm saying to myself, maybe we need to change a little bit about how we're wired. Because at the end of the day, let's say he comes in, he does his thing, I go to the gym, and I don't like it because the price is $700 an hour, right? Which is ridiculous for any personal trainer unless you're training, I guess, some of the you know, the top talent in Hollywood. Yeah, exactly, right? So, but you know, what would that have cost me? Two hours, right, at the most of my life. And so I I think that and again, this is probably not what you're getting at with the podcast, but the one of the things that was profound to me when thinking about this was maybe some of us need to do a little bit of internal, kind of saying, okay, how do we view you know those interpersonal relationships and how we view how trust is either gained or lost and and maybe be a little bit more present?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yes. We could use some rewiring. How do we view it? Could you expand on that? Do you have any hunches? Like are there some habitual ways we're viewing things that could probably use a retune?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah, you know, again, not to go out onto a diatrap about too many things here, but so I have a 12-year-old daughter who I'm watching grow up in this world right now, and it's very different than the way I grew up, right? So I I'm 46, turning 47 this year. And so I I went to college with my first flip phone cell phone that would only work on Mondays through Fridays after nine o'clock and after weekends because my father would not allow me to pay the 50 cents a minute, you know, during the during the day. So I think it's a lot about the influence of technology, social media. There's a lot of instant gratification, and everything's way more transactional than ever has been before. So I think that that has conditioned us as consumers, as an audience, to really expect things kind of right away, up front, transparent, clear. And because of that, I think it tends to be more transactional. What I love about some of the changes that I'm seeing are content like your show, content like what I consume online, knowing that we're moving as consumers from getting our news solely from CNN, Fox, or CNBC, right? That we're moving to podcast and you know other outlets to gain news and information. So I think that the trend is tr changing. But um, you know, for me, I think it's I think it's just being more aware of it, right? And it's you know, again, but a lot of my views have changed, Pete, over the years because you know, I find myself like those uh all-state commercials becoming more like my father, right? So, you know, I watch history shows now instead of you know the ballgame. So it's there's been some profound changes in the way I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Like imagine if you were to go to another country and everyone was doing business this way, it'd like your personal trainer, you'd probably say, This is just awesome. And I like this way better. I don't know the price right away, and I don't mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, because you know, I think that there's an aspect of it, and you know, I live in New England now, uh, which is not very different than New York. And so there is an aspect of kind of looking over your shoulder if someone's always out to get you and or take advantage of you, or take advantage of a situation. And that's just not human, human reality for most of us, right? Now that that does exist, but it's not all the time. Um, my wife is from Southern Illinois. Now, it's very, very rare to think that way. So conceptually, when we have these discussions, she's like, well, why would you think that? Why would you think that they would act in that manner? And it's like, it's not like all of me thought of that. There was just a small percentage of me that thought maybe that that was that was it. So I think that there's a combination of like, you know, all the things surrounding us, so whether it's technology like we talked about earlier, or geographic norms, or you know, the way you were raised, I think a lot of that kind of bubbles up to the surface of how you view a topic like trust in general. You say southern Illinois. Where in Southern Illinois?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

She grew up in a little town called Flora, Illinois. Flora? I grew up in Danville, Illinois. Uh we we call it Central Illinois, and sometimes we get a little flustered if people call central Illinois, Southern Illinois, because they're um they're not quite the same. And Chicagoans think that anything south of their suburban suburban area is southern Illinois. But yeah, Flora, I think I've been through, and that is genuinely south.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Um very, very small town. She she always tells me it's, you know, and I've been there once, and um it, you know, it was it was lovely in its own way, very different than I grew up in New York. But I had visited Florida, Florida before, and it's a lovely place in its own way, very different. And she always told me it's more like Kentucky than Chicago. So just get that through your brain. Yeah. And so my paradigm was okay, you know, I went to college in upstate New York, which is very different than downstate New York. So it's almost Illinois flipped. So I get it.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yes, indeed. Well, and you talk about where you're raised matters. I'm thinking I had a guest on my podcast which who was discussing, they've done studies where they put wallets that are lost, but they're not really lost wallets. They're they're part of a study, just to see how frequently they are returned based on their addresses. And sure enough, there are some Scandinavian countries where it's like 70 to 85% of the wallets are returned. Folks in the US, it's about 57-ish percent returned. And then there are some folks in China, Peru, Kazakhstan, Morocco where like 8 to 20% are returned, which is which is striking in terms of the values, the priorities, the economics. You know, the the a variety of factors result in different levels of trust extended to the the stranger by default.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Yeah, actually, I'll tell you a quick aside story to that. So we were in the time that I was in Flora with her, uh, we went to what they call the Hootin Annie, which I had never heard of, what could it possibly have been, but it was, you know, party out in the woods. And uh we had gone out there and um I had dropped my iPhone at some point, um, and I wasn't sure where it was. And so, of course, my paradigm, and speaking of trust, was oh, somebody just grabbed it and you know, has it and walked away with it. And um I was with my my my wife and her parents and her brother, and they all kind of looked at me kind of like smirking, like and I'm like, Well, there's a joke here that I'm not getting. And they're like, well, first of all, if if somebody got it out here, they probably wouldn't really know how to use it. And he goes, second of all, that's not the way people are raised. You know, they're gonna find it and it's gonna go into the middle of the table, and whoever got it is gonna pick it up. Like, so it's you know, so along the example that you just gave, I experienced it firsthand there.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So and you and ultimately you did receive your phone. I did get it back, yeah. All right, in the exact manner that they said I was. They were right, you were wrong. Yeah. Okay. Well, now let's hear about the the flip side of this. Uh, a tale of a time someone had to trust, and then they they lost it big time.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

I again I I went because my first story was more about transactional, I was going to kind of share another one. So we we my wife and I recently bought a place, it's not so recent anymore, probably during COVID, down in Bluffton, South Carolina, which is just a beautiful, beautiful community. And it's where my in-laws had moved and to retire. And we had gone down there and checked it out, and we said, Oh, this is just an amazing place and it's growing, but it's not too big. And as a side story, I went to the PGA store and um to pick up some golf balls before an outing with my my uh father-in-law. And I stopped there and I asked the guy because I could tell he had an upstate New York accent, like uh Buffalo or Rochester, one of the two. And um I said, Buffalo or Rochester. He goes, How do you know? I go, Well, I went to college in Ithaca College. He said, Okay. He goes, uh, Buffalo. I said, Okay, my father went to um South Park High School. And so we got to talking a little bit about Buffalo and we started talking about Bluffton and uh, you know, talking about all the things we loved about it. And he'd been there for 30 years and he kept his upstate New York accent. And I said, Well, what is it that you don't like about it down here? And he looks at me with a straight face Pete and he goes, All you people moving down here.

unknown 17:03

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

He's like, I've been here 30 years and I'm not even accepted. So I can say that, right? He goes, I hadn't heard a heard of honk in 30 years, and now everybody's coming down here and it's feeling too congested. So that's just a little side story. So we we had bought we had before we had bought the place, we had been referred by our real estate agent up here to another agent at the same company down there. And so because of that referral, there was definitely an implied level of trust that existed, right? So, you know, you figure if you're getting that referral, it's gonna be this somebody of the same value, somebody of the same approach. And so we went in to have our meeting, say, okay, here's what we're kind of looking for. And virtually no questions were asked in in that kind of give and take. It was more of like us kind of telling what we were looking for. Um, my wife does a lot of the research on her own, so she she always has a hard time trying to find out why we need a real estate agent in the first place. But you know, we understand that it helps just make the transaction go smoother. And she goes, she says, uh, oh, I've got a couple different communities for you. Like, let's get started right away. So I said, okay. So a week later, whenever we we schedule the time to go down there and to look at at the uh the areas that she had picked out for us. First area that we went, so the first big thing that we told her that was on our list was we want it to be a golf cart ride away from the downtown area. We had parked at the place that she had set to park. And I'm looking at Ashley and I'm saying, this is like four miles from town. There's no way you can get a golf cart back to downtown. You know, it's uh because it's 30 mile an hour roads and all the rules. And so I said, I was like, Can you get a golf cart down? She goes, No, you can drive a golf cart in this community. I'm like, but you can't get to the downtown. She said, No. So like immediately I'm like, okay, that's weird. That's just, you know, maybe she just didn't really understand how important that was to me. No big deal. So we move on to the second location, and um, it's you know, mile away within the golf cart. She's like, Well, this one you can take the golf cart down. I'm like, okay, great. She's showing some that it's a beautiful place. She asks, How old are you, Dan? And I said, 40 at the time, 42. And she said, Oh, wait, and she said, You Ashley, and Ashley was 36. And she said, Oh, hmm, that might be an issue. I said, Why's that? She goes, Because this is an over 55 community.

unknown 19:06

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 19:07

And like, I felt like I was on another planet. I'm like, what's happening right now? Did you think I looked over? Yeah. So I'm like, can I get the list of the other two places so I've never waste the rest of my day? Um, which I flew down there to go to the, you know, to these meetings. So like that trust was broken because and again, I use that example because it was so simple. It was such a simple fix. And it really comes down to just listening, right? So just listening or even asking questions to better understand what was our goal, right? What why did we want to be down there? You know, maybe ask the question if I was the agent, why do you want to go to have a golf cart ride down to the downtown area? And that was because if we can take a golf cart ride down to the downtown area, then we can also take a golf cart ride to get to her parents' house. So that way we're always that close enough to be there, um, whether it be a car or a golf cart. And so, you know, it and that was really important to us at the time. Plus, my daughter absolutely loves riding in the golf cart. So we just wanted to be able to use that as much as possible. By the way, Pete, we didn't even own a golf cart at the time, but we knew it was in our plants. So, you know, I think that that's a great example of somebody who, completely contrasting to the first story I I told you, you know, ultimately was more worried about trying to fill whatever was was, you know, in her inventory to sell me rather than to try to say, okay, what matters most to you and how can I deliver on those things that you seem to hold dear?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah. Well, it's well, I'd be chuckling about this when every time I see people riding on a golf cart around my neighborhood now. I think about this story. And what's intriguing is it it was very flagrant. And like you told her exactly what you wanted, and you got not at all that. And and so it's it's a it's a head scratcher. Like you said, it's like, am I on a different planet? What what the heck is going on? And and so that is that is flagrant and and dramatic. And yet I'm thinking that there's many instances in which trust is eroded or maybe just never even gets started because folks didn't bother to ask. And I think about so many sales pitches where where folks just like get into the things in terms of these are all the features and there's the history and the founder. Like, huh, I don't actually care about any of that. And I but and and I guess like you would have known if you hadn't asked, but you didn't. And so here I am kind of patiently sitting through and smiling and nodding through the through the thing and wondering if I should speak up and say in the nicest way possible, I don't care about any of this, I care about that. Move on through there now, please. Or or if I'll just if I give another minute, they'll just naturally do that. So that that's what uh where I'm going. So so yeah, you can lose trust in droves by just not at all listening to what you've been told. But but I think also there there are times when they heard what you said, and yet they're it's almost like they're Trying to finesse it.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

You know, it's like, hey, I know you asked for a golf cart with we're gonna put lipstick on the pig because you can drive a golf cart in this community. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

This is like that in that there's not a lot of traffic.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Maybe if you squint, kind of sort of mate, but not not really.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Have you ever seen Tommy Boy, Pete? Oh, yeah. One of my favorite scenes in that whole movie is when he goes up to the counter and he asks for the flight um back to Chicago, and she says, I've got a flight coming back from Chicago. Does that help? Hi, I'm Earth.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

We met Yeah. That kind of reminds me of the way that AI LLMs hallucinate. I was like, well, it has the word Chicago in it, so I'll give you some points. Okay. Well, we've already touched on this, but I'd love to hear anything you haven't already said with regard to these experiences and those like it. Have you noticed any way that they have shaped your thinking? Do you have any sort of personal standards or rules of thumb or mantras or mottos or non-negotiable standards that you set when it comes to how you do business and thinking about trust?

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I I think in part both examples have taught me something one way or the other. You know, for me, I think it comes down to a lot of different tenets, but the one that sticks out the most is like true understanding, like having a true level of understanding when you're dealing with an interpersonal situation. What I mean by that is in the past, Pete, maybe I'm hearing a story or I'm hearing somebody's background or I'm hearing about what matters most to them for retirement or spending or budgeting, whatever we're talking about at the moment. And if I didn't truly understand something for the purposes of like smooth dialogue, a lot of times I'll I would just assume kind of what they meant, right? Instead of diving deeper into that, like saying, okay, if they said this, then they probably meant this. So we don't have to go down that rabbit hole. Now I'll just pause and be like, hey, I just want to make sure that I fully understand what you what you mean. When you say this, do you actually tell me more about what you mean and unpack it for me so I can understand at your level why that's important to you. So to me, that extra step is sometimes a lot of people don't take that step because maybe they're embarrassed they don't want to sound like they weren't listening, or maybe they're embarrassed they don't want to sound like they don't understand something. It's funny, as I get older and I learn more, I actually find myself asking dumber questions because it helps me understand better, not only from a conceptual perspective, but from an intent perspective, right? And that's especially more difficult these days when you're trying to communicate with somebody via text or teams or whatever, right? Because there is no context there. So I think that's the big one is really trying to understand people where they're where they're where they are and asking really good questions to expound upon their experiences and their motivations and and their values.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Well, that's that's powerful. When you say dumber questions, I like that a lot. And I'm going to try to practice what you just said there. When I hear dumber questions, what I I think that means not so much that it's they're dumb, like you just repeated, like, oh, you clearly weren't listening, or this is what a person of a very low IQ uh might ask if they don't understand, you know, basic vocabulary items or or principles for how the world operates. But rather, what when you say dumber, what I what I'm hearing is more foundational, fundamental, first principles type questions. Is that what you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah, in part, I think that would be more the greater part of it, but I'll give you an example of like a smaller one, right? So you're talking to somebody and they say, you know, okay, I get this pension as part of my income plan and this, you know, this pension, and I don't pay taxes on that. Most advisors just power right through that. Okay. Take the note, don't pay taxes on that. But now, if somebody said that in my office, I'd say, well, explain to me why. Why don't you pay taxes on that? And come to find out it's not a pension at all, it's actually an annuity payment. And, you know, because of the way that the annuity was structured, there's no more taxes on it now, but taxes will be coming in the future. So it's something that had to be planned for. But if I took it at face value without going deeper to develop that understanding of what it actually was, then I I never would have unpacked the fact that we had to plan for something down the road. Um, so I think while somebody, you know, that may be a newer financial advisor would just say, okay, they said it wasn't taxed. So why would I ask a question on why it wasn't taxed? Or it's not like I'm trying to challenge their understanding of what's taxed and what's not. It's well, I'm just trying to understand on my at my level of why do they think it's not taxed, right? Because if it is some sort of pension that's not that's tax-free, I need to find out where that is and how I can get part of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

That's excellent. So so a great dumb question is why don't we pay taxes on that? And a and a bad dumb question would be, what's a pension?

SPEAKER_02 27:02

I don't know, I would have passed my exams if I had asked that question.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

All right. Well, Dan, tell me any other key takeaways or or tidbits about trust you want to make sure to put out there before we part ways?

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah, you know, I think if I was to, you know, I don't know a lot about the type, you know, the different folks that that listen to your podcasts is and it's probably a lot of different demographics, but you know, if I had to go back and tell myself, you know, some some important lessons in and around trust, it was the concept of vulnerability, I think is hugely important in building trust. It's big in leadership, it's built in big in anything. And I think if you know anything about Simon Senec uh and some of the things that he talks about, and he always says try to find the why, right? Try to find out what the why, the motivation is of a person. It's very similar to what we do in our office, try to try to understand why somebody wants to retire, right? So some a lot of people just ask, oh, I'm gonna retire at 65. Well, well, tell me why. Why is that important to you? And maybe there's different milestones and goals that they want to be retired for, right? So you get to find and unpack a lot more. And and that kind of asking silly questions, I kind of bubble that all up to being vulnerable. And I think a lot of us are afraid to be vulnerable because of the position that maybe they perceive yourself to be put that they that they're putting themselves into. But I think vulnerability allows for humongous, generous personal growth, but also I think is a key tenet of developing trust with another person. Because if you're showing that you can be comfortable in your vulnerable state, then it allows them to understand that um there's a lot of sincerity and meaning behind what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

All right.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Excellent. Well, Dan, thank you. This is lovely. If folks want to learn more about you or check you out, where should they go?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, we've got uh, you know, Edward Jones, we're our office is in Edward with Edward Jones Investments, Brothers Wealth Management in Danvers, Massachusetts on 24 Maple Street. So they can certainly Google us, but it's uh EdwardJones.com slash uh Dan Hyphen Brothers. All right. Dan, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Want to build trust at scale? Go to cashflowpodcasting.com and launch your own podcast.