Fold In The Cheese: An Interview with Ashley Peters

Joining us this week is Ashley Peters, author of the dystopian novel IN STASIS. We played Never Have I Ever Spoiled My Own Book and Literary Would You Rather--plus we totally geeked out over quote books and the sheer trauma of academia.

IN STASIS (BUY IT ON BOOKSHOP)

"In Stasis" is a lyrical, slow-burn survival novel that invites you to explore a dualityof worlds and survival from the perspective of an average woman.

"Jessi is forced to choose to flee to the forest with her dog, Janus, after facing abetrayal and to avoid arrest from the newly established authoritarian regime.Deep amongst the trees she must learn what it means to survive-both in thewilderness and this new world.

Convinced she can live, unnoticed in the forest, Jessi must grasp to her humanity, uncover dimmed skills, and cling on to the hope there's a way through this.

Lurking beneath the surface is the nagging question: Is she truly alone in this vast expanse?

Each day a lucky gift, hiding away from the other shoe that threatens to drop, just beyond the horizon, as signs of the world she left behind begin to creep in.

Survival demands everything. Without an option to opt out, every day living is an act of resistance.

Every choice demands her re-evaluation of what is necessary to endure in the face of erasure."

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Transcript

Booked All Night 0:02

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jeff. I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes. A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shape. Grab your blankets, booklets, it's time to get booked all night. Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and nobody gets enough sleep. I'm your host, Jessica Mary, and today I'm joined by Ashley Peters, debut author of Instasis. Thank you for coming today.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Thank you so much for having me.

Booked All Night 0:36

This is great. Tell me all about Instasis.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

So Instasis is a dystopian or a throughtopian uh survivalist speculative fiction novel. In it, our main character, Jessie, is forced to choose to flee to the forest with her dog Janice after facing a betrayal under a new authoritarian regime. And it's there that she has to learn how to literally survive in the wilderness. But also, what does life look like in this new world? What does it mean to trust people again? And is there a chance of, you know, some kind of hope beyond what her current moment is?

Booked All Night 1:14

What is throughtopia?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

So someone just recently told me that, and I'm like, this is amazing because people had pointed out um like how it's kind of there's moments are cozy. They're like, can a dystopian be cozy? And someone offered up that throughtopian, essentially it's dystopian, but not forever necessarily. Like while you're going through something, there's more themes of resistance, community, um, like survive, like surviving even from just like a mental state versus just this is the world, we have to accept it as it is.

Booked All Night 1:52

Versus the all things are all bad all the time kind of feeling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah.

Booked All Night 1:56

Yeah. Gestures vaguely at the world currently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Yes.

Booked All Night 2:02

So we're gonna warm up with a little quick game of some superlatives, just kind of like end-of-the-arbook sort of thing. Uh I just have five, and you're just gonna tell me which character in the book kind of fits that description the best. Do you have any questions? Okay. Most likely to emotionally devastate readers and then apologize.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Um gosh. I feel like possibly Okay, there's a character named Delilah. I think Delilah.

unknown 2:39

Yeah.

Booked All Night 2:40

Most likely to disappear into the woods and never explain.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Uh definitely Jesse. Definitely Jesse or Janice, because the dog doesn't talk.

Booked All Night 2:51

Yes, your interview today is done by uh Jesse, and my dog is right here behind me. Thought that was appropriate. Most likely to accidentally start a rebellion.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Um Marcus.

Booked All Night 3:06

Most likely to write a line that lives rent-free in someone's head.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Definitely Lucy.

Booked All Night 3:14

And most likely to befriend a wild animal and give it a deeply unserious name.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

I also feel like Lucy. Lucy has a little bit of like witchy vibes, and I feel like there's that overlap.

unknown 3:26

Okay. Very cool.

Booked All Night 3:28

I think I'm gonna like Lucy.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

So Lucy's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Booked All Night 3:33

So Instasis is described as following an average woman navigating extraordinary circumstances. What exactly makes Jesse average versus the usual main characters of dystopian fiction?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

So I wanted someone who wasn't, like I said, like the bear girls. Um, she references that she would go hiking or like a weekend camping or kind of like clamping. Um, I didn't want someone who would be just perfectly A-O-K with the idea of just being in the wilderness forever and ever. Like they like their creature comforts, they like takeout, you know, things like that. Um, she's a journalist, so while she is very informed on things, being mentally informed on things versus needing to live in the thick of it are different. And she had read a lot, but now she suddenly has to take those readings and actually, you know, enact them. Um there's parts in the book where she is figuring out survival things and she is referencing, well, I saw, like, I heard about something in this book, this novel. I hope kind of like I hope it's true. Or, oh, there was this reality show. I won this made me think of this. So she's trying to pull her knowledge from everywhere. She's not like a bear girls rock star. Um, it was important for me because I wanted her to be relatable, and also because I do think people are capable of incredible things in tough situations. So I wanted the reader to be able to see that and maybe not doubt themselves and their own capabilities. Um, I feel like if she would have been out there and just been the person who's doing all these really intense, like through hikes, reader would be like, okay, that's great for Jesse. But me, I could never. Yeah. Like, no, I think you could.

Booked All Night 5:23

I could never. I uh particularly not around here, I am allergic to the trees. So I would not have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Just be sneezing a lot. Yeah.

Booked All Night 5:33

I'll survive it. Absolutely terrible. So there is a quiet, sustained tension throughout the book, and the forest is very calm but never fully safe, and the world that Jesse has left behind never really quite releases its grip. So, how did you approach pacing with regards to keeping that level of stillness with the setting?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah, so for me, I I really enjoy being out in nature and I find it very peaceful. But I know I've gone out um on like hiking trips with people who have never really gone out in that. And so I think it's interesting the duality of a space. Like I can see it one way and they see it in a vastly different way. And I wanted to use that as little nods and nuggets, referencing kind of an unseen, maybe not even like real fear. Like maybe there's nothing to be afraid of. It's just a squirrel making all that noise. Um, and contrasting that to actual real dangers. And so for me, when it came to the pacing, I definitely ebbed and flowed to where it's like there might be a high moment, and then you get a breather, and then we have another moment, and then there's a breather. Um, because she never really gets to rest. Yeah. And as the book continues on, I did want it to feel like there were more tension building and kind of like almost like doors closing. It's getting a little bit more claustrophobic because things are closing in. Um so maybe there's less moments of peace and kind of forgetting maybe that you are not, you know, that you're living under an authoritarian regime, um, versus like things that are just interrupting her new world to like force you to feel that tension um until like the crescendo at the end.

Booked All Night 7:22

And uh without giving anything away, like what kind of things would be interrupting some of her peace?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

So there's like there's people still in the world. Um, it is a thing where you know, the this authoritarian government, um, and we know this like very early on, like they're doing things to try to silence people who are saying things against them and trying to basically like round up people who are doing things against them. Um, so that that activity of theirs doesn't stop. And so even though she is in a decently remote area, she's not completely like in a, I don't know, like an Alaskan tundra or something. Like there is a small little ski town, but it's many miles away. Um, but there is the possibility of like paths crossing. So there's things like that. Um, she goes to like a little area they call the trading post and just being aware of possibly people crossing through, looking for people who have um what they call them as deplorables, like people who are fighting against necessarily like the government or just doing something they don't like. Um there's also just the aspect of like some survival things become more intense, um, where maybe there is like an incident, and if you were in the city or had access to like medical care or grocery store or something like that, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. But because now you are is in this like tree house, this like glamping tree house, now suddenly it is a bigger deal. Yeah.

unknown 8:59

Okay.

Booked All Night 9:00

So when someone finishes in stasis, presumably late at night when they should have been sleeping to get a cat, uh, and they're just lying there staring at the ceiling for a while. What feelings do you hope that they are sitting with?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

So I know sometimes when because of our world, when I say I'm like, oh, it's a dystopian, and then they're like, oof, don't know if I want to read like that right now. And I'm like, I hear you. However, I do hope when people finish, there's a little sense of hope. Um, there is definitely a theme of community, and there is like a light at the end of the tunnel. For me, writing it, it was weirdly very cathartic. Um, because I do think when you have a community or you have people you can rely on, things in general are just better. So I hope when they finish, they feel that little sense of community and hope, but also a sense of like their own capability, like not necessarily underestimating themselves, especially as women, of like what you are capable of, even whether it is in the wilderness or if you are in a city, but under a government that is trying to take away like those voices, um, and like that power. Yeah.

Booked All Night 10:09

We uh we're currently rereading the entire Hunger Games series for our book content this season. Uh, and it goes out later this year. It's gonna run all the way up to the movie. We're very excited. But almost every page we turn, because it's dystopian, we're like, oh, I don't like how this aged. I don't like how well this lines up right now. Yeah, oh, this hits a little too close to home. Like every single page of it. So it is hard to pick up dystopian when the world is what it is. Uh, but that is a good point to bring up that most dystopian literature does bring us hope at the end and reminds us that through community and through our power together, that our voices can overcome that and we do something, yeah. Like we're stronger together and all that good, good fun stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah. I I know I've told people that for me, I feel like reading dystopian was always cathartic, and then writing it was too, because the real world doesn't have like a storyline. We don't know how it's going to end. At least the book, I'm like, oh okay, I know there's a beginning, middle, and end, and I can see how things happened. And I don't know, it gives me some weird sense of calm in some ways. It's not unwritten.

Booked All Night 11:23

Yeah, it's like I I know that it's going to end, and it's not gonna be another seven book series that just goes on for the rest of my life. I know that there will be an end, and it won't feel like January has been six years of my life. It'll be it'll be okay. Yeah. I fully understand that. I for a very long time I only read like very dark literature and horror and dystopian because I'm like, well, at the end of it, everything's okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Yeah.

Booked All Night 11:52

And right now, everything is not okay. But here, it's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah.

Booked All Night 11:57

Totally understand that. With that, we come to the very first official game of the podcast. Awesome. Which is Never Have I Ever Spoiled My Own Book. Uh, if you've ever played Never Have I Ever at a Sleepover, same rules. All of these are stereotypical readerly, writerly things to do. It is also the pettiest game that I play here at the podcast. Uh, I'm not above doing things like never have I ever written a book called Anstasis, never have I ever written a character called Jesse, like absolutely petty. So just yeah. Forewarning. First official one is never have I oh, if you have done five or more of these, this is the important part. Five or more of these, you have to spoil something from beyond act one, wherever you consider act one ends. Okay. Okay. First official question. Never have I ever almost spoiled my book while trying to explain it.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

I definitely have. It's so hard sometimes.

Booked All Night 13:05

I know. Sometimes I'm like, I I want to tell you all about it, but I have to do it in like three seconds. I can't. So never have I ever deleted a line and immediately regretted it.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

No, I haven't.

Booked All Night 13:20

Wow. Very nice. I do that all the time. Never have I ever given a vague answer because the real one was a spoiler.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

I definitely have. It's two.

Booked All Night 13:34

Never have I ever warned someone, don't Google it.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Hmm. About the book?

Booked All Night 13:42

About anything you've got.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Anything you can do. Oh, so yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Booked All Night 13:47

I we used to have a question here, it was like, what's the strangest thing you've Googled? And to date, my favorite answer has been cow insemination. I'm like, how do you top it? Cow?

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah. How do you I don't I only have one stranger. I do probably have one that like FBI might be more good starting with.

Booked All Night 14:04

Right. I I think every writer has like the list where they're like, oh, oh, they're doing their MFA. Okay, never mind. We'll ignore them for now. But yeah, cow insemination got me. I was like, sold.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

What?

Booked All Night 14:17

I can never ask this question again. Nothing will ever top this. This is too weird. Uh the fifth one. Never have I ever spoiled something by accident in a draft note.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

No, I don't think I have. Okay. No. Yeah.

Booked All Night 14:36

I have. Sending stuff too before. Never have I ever trusted a reader with spoilers too early.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I have, yeah. That's okay with that.

Booked All Night 14:57

Never have I ever changed an ending because I realized it spoiled itself.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

I've changed an ending, not because it spoiled itself, but I felt like it was too much of a French ending. Like it just ended too abruptly. Yeah.

Booked All Night 15:22

So never have I ever spoiled a theme without meaning to.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

I feel like yes, because I feel like sometimes you talk about the themes and the tropes, and then it's like, well, that clearly gives something away. Yeah, but people also want to know it, whereas it's like catch 22. I'm like, mmm.

Booked All Night 15:43

Yeah, you can't be like, they're gonna have a found family and not expect all these people to come together and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Yeah, exactly. Something's going to happen. Maybe I don't know, not in the way people imagine, but like clearly there are other there, yeah.

Booked All Night 15:56

Yeah. Uh never have I ever said I can't talk about that yet, and meant emotionally.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Mmm. I haven't. Not with anything I've written yet. Okay.

Booked All Night 16:09

And never have I ever assumed something was obvious and it absolutely wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

I have absolutely done that.

Booked All Night 16:17

So your total is six, so you do have to spoil something from beyond whatever you consider to be act one.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Okay. Um. So I will spoil the fact that there is an injury involved for Jesse. And there's a while there where you're just like, I don't know how she's gonna get out of this. Like, what's gonna happen? Um, because she starts to get an infection. Um ends up obviously working out because it's not the end of the book. Um, I won't spoil exactly how it works out because she does receive some aid, but I don't want to reveal who. Okay. But if you are a person who enjoys Easter eggs, pay real close attention to that because there's Easter eggs within that scene as to other people she will come in contact with. Okay. So, yeah. It's a spoiler with Easter eggs.

Booked All Night 17:13

Little pastel-colored spoilers littered throughout the lawn. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yes.

Booked All Night 17:19

So the next couple of questions I have are specifically about writing craft and reading habits. Um, how do you decide what moments deserve lingering attention and when it's time to move the story forward?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

I uh so I will write, and honestly, like so much of it just comes from like how the words pour out for the first draft, and then I will go back and be editing things and feel like, is this lingering too long? Do we need to move this along? Am I like really stuck on just musing about like the forest or the trees or something? Um, and really trying to balance that. I do think I've been very fortunate where between like first draft readers, like with my partner or beta readers, um, making sure it's not becoming too whimsical um or purple prose-ish, because I'm like, yes, I want this to be a love out of nature, but I also want to make sure I'm not just getting like stuck in like trees, basically. Yeah. So I feel like it's more my editing that I'm like, okay, we need to shift this or shift that. Um and then if it's like if I'm trying to make it more claustrophobic, I definitely think on those, it's we're moving things faster, and there's less, it's there's less descriptors, or the descriptors are more bitey.

Booked All Night 18:48

As a debut author, uh, what part of the publishing process has surprised you the most?

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Um I think the like most I mean, surprising wise was how long editing takes. Um because like I wrote it all in approximately like four or four and a half-ish months. And I thought, like, oh okay, I don't know, I just thought editing would be faster. And then it was just a lot slower, and then going over it so many times, even went over it um like sentence by sentence backwards in the novel, so my brain wouldn't like fill in portions before sending it to a person, and I'm just like, I am ready to be done with this part. Like, I I'm done, it's good. The commas are all correct. Like, let's let's move forward.

Booked All Night 19:37

How long did it take you to complete your edits?

SPEAKER_02 19:41

So, in total, it was let's see, or probably like eight months. Yeah, it was literally like double, yeah. And I think that's where I was like, oh, it's gonna be about the same amount of time, maybe a little less. And I was like, oh, this is not at all the same amount of time.

Booked All Night 19:55

I a hundred percent believe that with my whole body. So I'll write stuff down. I'm like, all right, this is great. And I go back through and I I correct all my grammar and I send it off to somebody, and I'm like, Did you just dip it in red ink? What is this? And you spend it. What is this? Yeah, yeah. And you you just spend months, months on like one chapter, and you're like, I could recite it to you now. Yes, yeah. Oof.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, yeah. That and the formatting. Formatting was just like a beast to do. Um, and I felt like a lot of the information out there was kind of felt like that scene from Shits Creek where they're like, oh, you just fold in the cheese. And I'm like, cool, what does that mean?

Booked All Night 20:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

I don't understand. And they're like, you just do this. I'm like, I don't understand what you're saying.

Booked All Night 20:46

Yeah. Yeah. When when I was an undergrad doing my writing program and my classes were like, oh, just put it in manuscript format. I'm like, what is manuscript format? Because my entire life has been MLA format.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Yeah.

Booked All Night 21:00

And and what they mean is put it into Chicago format. But if you go online and you search manuscript format, they're like, yeah, manuscript format. And you're like, fold in the cheese. Like what?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Can we can we get a better definition, please?

Booked All Night 21:15

Uh so for everyone wondering, uh, when you do your manuscript format, you have your heading of your chapter number or title, and the first paragraph is not indented, all of the rest of them are indented, and depending on your schools of thought, this also applies to sections and not just chapters. What a pain in the butt.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yes.

Booked All Night 21:38

But if you set it up in whatever you're working in ahead of time, it does make it streamlines that proper. Yeah. So look up how to set it up and then get it all together. So my last question for this section is when you are reading for comfort and creative kind of refreshment, replenishment, what kinds of stories do you? Find yourself reaching for and how do you those particular reading habits shape your own work?

SPEAKER_02 22:06

I read a lot, so I do read a lot of dystopian um books, and we were talking about like Hunger Games, and it's funny because for me, I feel like dystopian like it indirectly covers all these other ones too, because like I'll read that. Um I'll read like a ton of Margaret Atwood, um, Augustina Besterica, who wrote Tender as the Flesh and The Unworthy, like I love hers. And then there's ones that cross over into horror as well, because like in America, Tender as the Flesh is horror. And I'll read other that are truly horror books. I'm like, okay, I understand how this one ended up there. Um, and then I read a decent amount of sci-fi and kind of mix between like soft sci-fi and like hard sci-fi. Um we just my family and I, we read um This is how you lose the time war. And then for my own, I read uh the three body problem, which like very different, both sci-fi, but just very different sci-fi vibes.

Booked All Night 23:04

Three body problem is on my TBR and has been there for quite some time now because in in my family and my friend group, like I'm definitely the I gotta read sci-fi, I love sci-fi. Yeah. Uh and they're like, you would love the three body problem. I'm like, cool.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

It's a really good book.

Booked All Night 23:22

I got like 17 other books to read, plus the ones for the podcast, so it's gotta wait.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Like it is a really good book. Someone like I think they kind of scared me because like it's really like theoretical physics heavy. And I'm like, great, am I gonna like have to break out you know these textbooks from many years ago? It's not bad, like with that. Like, as long as you can if I don't know, if maybe you don't understand 10% of the physics, like you'll be fine. Yeah, um, I'm amazed how much the the first book and the TV show like are spot on. Like the translation was amazing, um, for the most part. Like, there's little things.

Booked All Night 23:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

But I recommend it. It's a fast read, even though it's like 500 pages.

Booked All Night 24:04

With the the note about like very field-specific things, we had also read um RF Quang's Catabasis or Katopasis, depending on what country you're in and how you want to pronounce the word. And there are these whole sections of BS philosophy, academia speak, and um I had come from an English major background, so I was like, Yeah, screw this whole world. And uh like producer Rob, also who normally is here and is not here today, also comes from a similar background, but our other hosts don't. So they're like, What's going on here? And I'm like, what's going on here is academic bullshit, you know. And yeah, and it's great, and it's it's written so wonderfully, and they're like, I don't get it. I'm like, okay, we're moving on then, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

That's on my that's on my list. I I could see that, and I feel like anything that she writes, I am obsessed with. Um, because I read Babel and then Amelia was like, I wish I spoke more languages. It was just so interesting, but so well done.

Booked All Night 25:08

Yeah, if you um if you came out of college or university with you know academic trauma, could catabasis is definitely like that cathartic reading. Okay, I'm gonna love it. Yeah. Be like, mmm. Yeah. She's describing professors, and I'm like, I've had that professor.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

You've had, yeah, you're like, I've had this teacher.

Booked All Night 25:31

I know her deeply. Like, yeah. That brings us to the second game of the podcast. This is a literary would you rather kind of sleep-deprived edition. And you obviously I give you would you A or B. Would you rather write only slow burn novels forever or only fast-paced ones?

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Slow burn. I feel like I'd lean that way. I'm like, like, that just probably makes more sense.

Booked All Night 26:04

Would you rather be praised for your prose or for your character work?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Hmm. I kind of feel like the prose. I'm such a as a reader, I'm such a character person, but I do love it when there's a line that just hits, and I'm like, okay, let me like screenshot this or something.

Booked All Night 26:25

Oh my god, I used to do that all the time when I'm like, this was a beautiful. I had I was such a nerd as a child. Yeah, like I stopped being a nerd, but more so as like a teenager. Uh and I had a quote book. So anytime Yes, exactly. Anytime I came across one, I was like, that's going in the book, citing it.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

And I'll still like post-it note next to it. I'll be like, this line, and draw like a little arrow. Because I also, and it's no shade to anybody who annotates. I just don't. And so like I'll do that as my like temporary annotation for the book.

Booked All Night 26:57

Big saying. Would you rather cut a scene you love or keep it knowing it hurts the pacing?

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Uh I think if I like loved it, loved it, I probably probably would keep it. I think I would keep it. If I really loved it, if I just had strong feels, then maybe I could cut it.

Booked All Night 27:20

Some scenes are hard to cut out, man. It's like, but I worked so hard on it and I have like it's my baby. Would you rather revise endlessly or let something stay imperfect?

SPEAKER_02 27:34

I feel like I would let it stay imperfect. As long as it wasn't so like it wasn't impacting something negatively. Um what was I? I read Leave the World Behind. Um, because I use I was, I mean, I like the show and I wanted to read the book, but it's definitely one of the comps I'll give. And um, there was a spelling error, and it was like it, whatever it was, it changed it from the word it was supposed to be to another real word. And I was like, wait, that doesn't make sense. And I was like, oh, it's a spelling error, but like it was still just so like the whole book's so good. I was like, okay, whatever, it's fine.

Booked All Night 28:10

Like I speaking of uh Hunger Games, which we mentioned earlier, uh, I had the Kindle edition when it first came out, and so I have my original notes left in, which has been really fun to be like, what did 2012 Jessica think of the Hunger Games? And I wrote almost nothing in it except I highlighted the word mutation, and I was like, they spelled mutation wrong. And now I'm like, oh, Jessica. Jessica, Jessica, Jessica. Would you rather write in total isolation or always around other people?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Definitely in isolation. Yeah. Like I write in silence, and yeah, I'm like, no, I'd rather just be in it.

Booked All Night 29:00

Oh no, I need the buzz. I need the buzz because it's like I I have to force myself to ignore people and then I focus on my work. But if I'm home, I'm like, look at all the games I have. Yay! Would you rather return to the same world or always start fresh?

SPEAKER_02 29:24

I think the same world and maybe different times. Like different spots within like the time strand.

Booked All Night 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

So in my head, I'm like, yes, it's the same world, just different times of the same world.

Booked All Night 29:35

I miss stuff like that. I feel like there was more IP work like that when I was younger. There was like stuff like Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance, and it was all these things happening in the same universe. But yeah. So take that publishing, please. It could be more IP work. I would love to return to the same worlds over and over and over again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

And that might be like little nods to where if someone really wanted to nerd out and die deep dive into it, they could they could notice things that someone else might not, and it's not gonna hurt it. Yeah, you know. It's the nuggets for us nerds, that's all.

Booked All Night 30:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah.

Booked All Night 30:11

Would you rather have quiet, devoted readership or sudden overwhelming attention?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

I mean, I'm gonna say the sudden overwhelming attention. I'm a Libra. I can't help it. I'm not gonna say no to like going viral or something.

Booked All Night 30:29

Oh no, I'm a bestseller. Who wants that? Yeah, exactly. And the last one for the game is uh would you rather have endings that devastate or endings that quietly haunt?

SPEAKER_02 30:41

I want endings that quietly haunt. Yeah. Something that lingers where you keep you keep talking about it even though it's like a week later and you thought you were past it, but it just keeps getting its way into conversations. Yeah.

Booked All Night 30:56

You know what did that for me? It was not a book. It was um Bioshock, the game.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

No, you have to say, yeah, I'm like, I guess, aware of it.

Booked All Night 31:07

They they had used like a game mechanic and it came around story-wise, and I don't want to ruin it for you because you should play it, everyone should play Bioshock. Uh, and it was just like I still think about that, that you just wrote this off as part of the gameplay because of how many other games that you've played, and I'm like, you bastard. Yeah, like I dare you, but it was still like so wonderfully done. So this very final round of questions is totally unhinged. Uh, I just make up some absolutely nonsensical questions. Uh, the first one of which is you're hiding out in the woods during a dystopian collapse. You are allowed one completely impractical comfort item. What is it and why is it worth the risk?

SPEAKER_02 32:00

I feel like impractical wise it would probably be books, which I don't know if that's like I don't know if that's like horribly impractical. But like I would want that to be able to read, like to do something like that, or a game, like a board game or something where I don't know, I'd be playing like something like literally like just with myself, um, to not have like complete boredom. Um yeah, I feel like something I feel like something like that, which I guess is not terrible, like the war the most impractical thing. Um yeah. I think I will say, I think the most impractical thing because we go camping a lot, um, we'll do the like the pour over coffee with like the chemics, like the glass thing.

Booked All Night 32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

And so even when we go camping, we bring that. And every time we bring it, I'm like, we have to like put stuff around it to make sure it doesn't break as we're getting in and out of the car. And I'm always just like, imagining other people who do more like intense through hiking, seeing us with like our chemics and just having like this judgmental like thought because it seems very impractical, but it makes really good copies. So I'm like, okay, maybe that, maybe that'd be a good one at like the glamping hideout post.

Booked All Night 33:18

I mean, it seems less impressive. I had a professor that had a travel French press.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Yeah, yeah.

Booked All Night 33:23

Yeah. So he's like, is this bougie? We're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yes.

Booked All Night 33:27

Yeah, that's that's pretty bougie. If in stasis were a candle, what would it smell like?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Mmm. Um, I think I think I'd definitely be notes of like juniper and something kind of like earthy. Um like, I don't be like damp, but kind of like a damp horse part. Like that, and juniper-y, but like light. Because it's there's you know, wind and breeze and whatever, stuff like that. It's not like not a not a damp funk, just damp, like just earthy.

Booked All Night 34:06

Juniper and funk.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah, yeah, juniper and funk. They're like, I'm like, oh okay.

Booked All Night 34:10

Flies right off the shelf.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Like, yeah.

Booked All Night 34:14

So in a real survival situation, are you the calm problem solver, the constant internal monologuer, or the person saying, this is fine, when everything is in fact not fine?

SPEAKER_02 34:28

I I am probably the between the problem solver and like the internal monologuer. Um, I'm definitely a problem solving person. Uh, I think I do decently well in like high stress, like crisis-y type situations. But like when we were when like I mean and some friends, we went out hiking, and I everyone said they had gone hiking before. And then when we got there, I very quickly realized like hiking is a relative word as to like what that means. And I was like, Oh, okay, like for some people it's a park, and that's fine, and that's great. Um, but internally I was like meant like monologuing, like, please don't go too close to that edge, watch out for that stick. Good, you didn't trip, we're good. They were concerned about like bears and mountain lions, all this stuff. And I'm like, I promise you, nothing's gonna come here because we are being loud. Yeah, we're fine. But having that internal monologue like was going hiking.

Booked All Night 35:31

So when I when I was a kid and a little more able-bodied, uh, we used to go camping and hiking every summer. And so, like, when my friends were like, Oh yeah, we're gonna go like hiking through the local woods, I was like, Cool. And I brought like a backpack and everything I needed, and they were like, Why do you have so much stuff? And I was like, because we're going hiking.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Going hiking.

Booked All Night 35:48

Like, we're gonna be all day. They're like, We're gonna be an hour? I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

That's a lot. Yeah.

Booked All Night 35:54

That is a that is a light jaunt through the woods, guys. What are you talking about? Because we used to hike uh Mount Washington and and specifically go up uh Tuckerman's Ravine as like family tradition kind of thing. And I'm like, I'm used to long trails, and I've been doing long trails since I was eight. You guys are wearing flip-flops.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Um I am concerned.

Booked All Night 36:22

Uh what part of the book do you think would hit completely different if someone rereads it?

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Hmm. I think especially depending on like where you are in your life, like age-wise, I think there's certain parts that if you were to read it and then I don't know, five years later read it, it's going to hit very, very differently. Um, so in the book, there are basically no men, like there's no there's no romance in this book. Um, I very intentionally made it to where there's no men as a main character helping Jesse because typically, even if there's a man adjacent, they will get all the credit for even if something the woman does. And being like a wilderness book, I didn't want it to be a thing where someone read it and they're like, oh well, this big strong guy like um got all the wood or something. I'm like, okay. So I just eliminated them. Like, if if they're close to her, assume that like they're not straight, um, or they're bad. So it's like very intentional, but she has these relationships with like different like interactions, I should say, with different men. And I think if you were to read it when you were like young 20s versus like mid or 30s, it's going to hit very differently. Um if someone was to read it and then like within a quick span of time go back and reread it. There are a lot of little Easter eggs where it's like a play on words to give you clues as to kind of like who she can trust, who she can't trust. Like if you like, I'm a big patterns person. And so if you're curious about patterns and you look and you're like, oh wait, I noticed all of these things, all the like times like these things are happening, these words are being used. Oh wait, in this situation, these words, like characteristic descriptors or like adjectives are being used. Oh, oh wait, that person ends up being like, you know, good or bad or whatever. Um, to where I think reading it a second time, it would stick out more because as I was writing it, I didn't want it to be blatantly obvious, but I did want it to be enough to where if you were like me, you might pick up on it. Or if you read it a second time, you would be like, Oh, oh, I see. Um yeah.

Booked All Night 38:50

Uh what is one question you secretly hope readers don't ask you? And what is one question you really wish they would ask?

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Hmm. I think the not asking. So it's written in like an epistolary style, um, where it's very like diary. It is also though in her head. It is very much so this internal monologue. So as for how, like logistically, something that's in her head is instantly on this paper that you are now reading, it just happens. Like she's not sitting there writing it out past tense or something like that. Like, it is just like you are in her head, and its date is noted so that you know the span of time of which for her survival, and then also like what the state of the country is being. Um, so you can kind of see like the how things are descending. But logistically, it's like, well, like that's just it just jumps from here to to your hands. Um, I contemplated making it more sci-fi to where there could be tech that would logistically provide that bridge. Um, but then I was like, that's a very different vibe, and that's not what we want. So we're all just we're in her head, and that's the I believe that we're all hidden. Um like just like roll with it. Um the question I think like some people have asked, and I always think it's cute when people ask, um, because everyone who reads it falls in love with a dog. And I have my dogs, and people are always like, Oh, who's it based on? And I like do love that question because I am such a dog person. So my answer always is that it's based on all three of them. Um, I do think it's hysterical when people are like, Oh, I envisioned like a Corgi or like a little terrier because one of ours is a like a Jack Russell Corgi. I'm like, did I somehow put more of you in here and like subliminally and not like realize it somehow? Or I don't know, they've just seen photos and they're like putting him in there too. Um, but yeah, Janice is my dog. All of them, all of them together. I'm like, everyone has a Janice.

Booked All Night 41:01

Everyone has a Janice.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah.

Booked All Night 41:03

And finally, uh, we asked this of all of our guests. Is there anyone that you would like to give a shout-out to today? Anyone from workshop partners to beta readers to agents, editors, or publishers?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Um, so my editor was amazing. Um, her name is Megan. Let me find her Instagram because I want my fellow. Um, her Instagram is ClarityCopyco. Um, she was really great. She edits a whole bunch of wide variety of types of things. Um, and I think this was like a little like out of the box for her, but she was like very excited because of the themes and the premise. So her, um definitely a huge shout out to my partner, uh Danny, because he has been through all the iterations from when I very first started, and I was like, hey, I just have this idea. Like, I don't know, I think I'm gonna write it. And it was like I had like two chapters, and it was like just talking about like being in the forest while the world is like burning. Um, and I'm like, it's gonna do something. So he's been through all of it, and including when I change the ending. Uh, so if I don't have everything memorized, he there's a chance he might as well. Um and then yeah, just like I mean, in general, just always I'm so grateful for like all my beta readers. Um, there's another author here in Austin. Uh, Rosia, she wrote, let's see, is it um, I want to make sure I have because she has she's four books out now, and I want to make sure I'm getting it correct. Uh yeah, Rosia Carranza. She, her first book was Blood and Blood and the Blackthorn, and then she wrote My Dreams Come True. Um, the one's a see a fantasy series, the other one's a horror. Um, but the author community in Austin has been really amazing and super supportive, and I think she was one of the people who most has been like like the best cheerleader and source of information. So I'm always grateful for for that too, because you know, like you can do all the googling, but it is really nice when you know you can just chat with other humans.

Booked All Night 43:17

Yes, which is part of the reason we asked this, because it's like very rarely that someone does all of the work by themselves. And like I think there's so much misinformation out where people are just like, oh, you sit down, you write the book, and you send it out. I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

There's like a hundred steps in between there.

Booked All Night 43:37

Yeah, at least. Before I'm even finished the draft, there's like a hundred steps. Are you kidding me? Like, what's for staying up with us. Follow us on Instagram and threads at BookVell Night Pod. Drop a comment to let us know what you thought of today's show, and join our Discord server for giveaways, excerpts, and more. It's still in the works, but we're aiming for a hundred Members, catch our live author interviews on YouTube and leave a question for our guests on our Discord server. Check out our shop and website at bookedallnight.co. That's bookdallnight.co. And if you're loving the chaos, don't forget to rate us five stars. Until next time, booklets, and remember to stay booked all night.