Do Aliens Write FanFic?: An Interview with Michael J Brooks

We're joined this week by Michael J Brooks, author of the WARS OF THE NEW HUMANITY series. We talked about the importance of the theme of UNlearning and where dystopia fits in today's literary and political landscape. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. Today we are joined by Michael J. Brooks. Welcome to the show, Michael.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hey, I am happy to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Yes. Uh I see that the book we're talking about today is part of a series. Go ahead and give us the rundown of the series.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Okay. So, um The Wars of the New Humanity series. Uh, I started that series a couple of years ago, about I'd say three years ago, wrote the first book in the series. And I guess if I had to sum it up, um, it follows uh our main protagonist. His name is Randall Scott, as he has to navigate the various wars of humanity's future, and it becomes the ultimate test of conscience. He finds out that, well, wars aren't always black and white, sometimes they're gray, and it creates a struggle of who's right, who's wrong, who do I side with? And uh, yeah, I'd say that's kind of the gist of the series.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Yeah, I'd say from going through the the blurbs getting ready for today's interview, that it seems like a really big theme running through it is unlearning.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yes, yes, definitely. Um, when I wrote the first book, uh the main hero, he he has this idea that this war that's going on um is wrong. Basically, you have humanity that lives on two different worlds. One's a utopian world, one's kind of a dystopian world, and the part of humanity that lives on the dystopian world rebels. And our main hero thinks this rebellion is wrong, but when he actually gets deployed there and goes there to help quell the rebellion as a soldier of the Commonwealth Defense Force, he starts to see the conditions on this dystopian world. And then he starts to kind of have a heart-to-heart with himself and starts to ask himself maybe this war is justified. Maybe I'm on the wrong side. And it becomes this entire dilemma that he has to go through.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

That sounds like a very important read uh for today's political climate.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, yeah. And it was really fun writing that first book because you have this main hero who gets introduced to the darker parts of the world that he lives in. It's not like he was totally unaware that you know oppression exists or totally unaware that uh some parts of humanity aren't doing so well, but he didn't think it was at that level. But when he actually experiences it, um he has to he has to face that dilemma and and as you said, maybe unlearn some things.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah. So I'm gonna get into our first game. It's a game of superlatives, kind of like end of the year, yearbook nonsense. Uh, and there's just five. Uh pick from your series any character that best fits these descriptions. Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Uh no, let's let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Alright. So the character most likely to start a war by accident.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Start a war by accident. I'm gonna go with um the the villain in my first book. Um his his first name is Cornelius, so I'll I'll go with that. Definitely the first one who would start a war by accident.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Cornelius definitely, even without a description of the character, just sounds like the name of a dude that would be like, oops, I hit the button. The next one is the character who would absolutely survive the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Character who would absolutely survive the apocalypse. Man, that is a very good question. But I'm gonna go with uh the main character's girlfriend, who's also a soldier in the Commonwealth Defense Force like him. Her name is Stacey Spencer. I'm gonna go with her because she is a uh resourceful character and someone who has inherited a good amount of uh wealth. And I think uh she would be best suited to survive the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Awesome. She's out there with a bunch of bottle caps for all the fallout people. Uh next one is the character most likely to betray the team for the greater good.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Betray the team for the greater good. Hmm. Alright, I'm gonna go with the main hero, Randall Scott. Um he he's always trying to do what's right, uh, always trying to do what's fair by other people, and he would be someone who says, Hey, you know, if I'm fighting on the wrong side, maybe I need to switch sides for the greater good.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

I like that. That's a that's a good switch to do. The next one is the character who should never be trusted with command.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

The character who would should never be trusted with command.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

It's me. I'm the character.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Well, you got me there.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Do you have one for that?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Um who would never be trusted with command? You know what? I am going to so in Republic Shattered, uh, my main villainous Zatandra has a younger sister, and I don't think I would ever trust her with command, even though she has a noble heart. I don't think she has the experience to lead in uh in dangerous situations.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Okay. And the last one is the character most likely to walk away from an explosion without looking back.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Walk away from an explosion without looking back. That takes a that takes a lot of heart and a lot of courage, and you have to have some nerves of steel. I'm gonna go with the main hero's father, Arson Scott, because he is uh a veteran of war. So yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Lovely. Sounds like great characters.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

So let's jump into our questions. These first three are specifically about the book. Uh so Republic Shattered, Sins of Before, places Randy in a brutal moral dilemma, which we talked about earlier, of fighting enemies who are themselves victims of the Commonwealth Defense Force.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

When you were developing this conflict, were you more interested in the action side of the story or in forcing Randy to confront the consequences of the CDF's history?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Uh I was would say that I was the most interested in forcing Randy to confront the uh consequences of the CDF's history because a lot of that was explored in the first book, and in the third book, a lot of that uh kind of has just compounded. And now there's this question of okay, so the Commonwealth Defense Force has done these sins. They've done some good too, but they've done some bad as well. And what happens when the people who they have done the bad things to want retribution, even though that might have been their past, even though there might be a new government who would never do those things, you know, what what happens? Do you do you just let the Commonwealth Defense Force off the hook? Who should be punished? Um, were the people who committed those sins just kind of victims themselves of indoctrination? So uh yeah, definitely I was the most interested in having Randy kind of confront the consequences of the CDF's past.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Nice. I so this season, our book read is the Hunger Games series. And I feel like your book is tying into that in that, like, I love dystopian literature, and I really wish that the world was not so relevant to the dystopian tales that I'm reading right now. Like, if the if the world could calm down just a little bit so that I could enjoy my dystopian literature without going, oh, oh, yeah. So Sidaldra sounds like an amazing antagonist. Like, even just in the blurb, she feels really fully fleshed out, especially with her traumatic ties to the very system that Randy serves. When writing her, how did you approach balancing her role as a threat to the Commonwealth while also giving readers insight to the pain and history that shaped her?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

That is a good question. So the book uh begins with a prologue, and that prologue um shows what made Zotaldra the villainous that she is, and um it shows the part where her father was killed by the Commonwealth Defense Force, and on top of that, we also get to see in that prologue that she's heard some things about the Commonwealth Defense Force that would lead her to believe that they are villainous. She's heard about some of the things that they've done. And I think that was the way that um I introduced the Taldra for the readers to sympathize with her past, actually showing it and not just talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah. I find a lot of books, I read a lot of younger literature, and a lot of the villain backstory just kind of comes from like, I found a book that just lore dumps all of their drama. And it's like, okay, great. Could we maybe have seen that? Right. I I do feel like seeing it definitely has a bigger impact on the story than just kind of like, well, her home got blown up, and it's like, yeah, but if we got to like experience that with her, then like makes a yeah, as producer Rob puts in the chat, show don't tell, exactly. It's a really good example of that.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

So we are in the middle of a looming war or a war that's already happening. So why was it important to you as a storyteller to include the emotional triangle between Akane, Stacy, and Randy? And what parts of their characters were you hoping that tension would reveal?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Okay, yeah, good question. So Akane was a character that I introduced in the second book. Um, and just to give you a little bit of her history, she was one of the people who lived on the dystopian world, which is satellite one. But through the lottery immigration system, she got the chance to live on the utopian world, Eden. So she's an immigrant from Satellite One. And um, she was introduced to Randy's life at a time where things were difficult for him. Uh, the war had ended, but his comrades uh still see him as a traitor. Um, they think that he should not have switched sides and joined the rebellion. So not everybody is pro-rebellion. There are a lot of people who think still think the rebellion is wrong. And Randy is kind of an outcast in the second book among the people who should be his military family. And uh he formed a bond with Akane because she's also an outcast, uh, being from Satellite One, the dystopian world, um, and her people were uh basically uh basically you could say her people, in a sense, started the war. So she's an outcast too. And he formed a relationship with her. Um at that time, he was um basically broken up with his girlfriend Stacey Spencer, um, who he eventually got back with at the end of the second book. And uh Akane, she goes back to Satellite One um to visit her family at the end of that second book after a very uh difficult ordeal and battle. And in the third book, she returns. So there was this question of okay, now that she's back and she's had this romantic history with Randy, but he's back with his uh former girlfriend. Well, you know, do those feelings go away? Does Akane still have feelings for Randy? Does he have any uh romantic feelings still for her? So it was important to explore that to ensure to wrap up that story. And, you know, how does Stacy feel about this uh former lover coming back into Randy's life? You know, is she antsy about it? Yeah, and is she is she antsy about the fact that they still have a friendship? So it was important to explore that.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Sounds sounds fun. And it also brings us to the very first game of the podcast, which is space em or embrace 'em.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

So space em or embrace them comes with a little story behind it. You are traveling through the cosmos with a cargo full of tropes and cliches, and you suddenly get stuck into a black hole. In order to escape the black hole, you have to dump some of these clopes tropes and cliches in order to lighten the load and get out.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Your computer, however, is also broken, so you only get two of these at a time. And we have to keep going through them until you reach the magic number that I rolled earlier. Okay. Alright, so the first two artificial intelligence gaining sentience, or space marines with questionable command decisions.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Hmm. I'm gonna dump artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Okay. Brings us to found family crews on dangerous missions, or galactic governments hiding terrible secrets.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Uh dump the family crews.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

The one soldier who refuses to give up, trope, or long-lost lovers reappearing at the worst possible moment.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I'm gonna go. I'm gonna embrace long-lost lovers.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Okay, soldiers who refuse to give up. Out they go. Alien species with morally complex motivations, or massive last stand battle scenes.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I'm gonna dump massive uh battle scenes.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Massive battle scenes. Ancient tech that no one fully understands, or cliffhanger endings in series finales.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Dump the cliffhangers.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Out the airlock, out they go. Yes. So we're not down to our magic number, so we have to go back through. So you have space marines with questionable command decisions, or galactic governments hiding terrible secrets.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I'm going to embrace Galactic Governments hiding terrible secrets. Galactic governments.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Uh, long lost lovers reappearing at the worst possible moment, or alien species with morally complex motivations.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I am going to dump the alien species.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Dump the alien species. And we're almost there. Ancient tech that no one fully understands. Or Galactic governments hiding terrible secrets.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I'm going to embrace technology.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Embrace technology. Out the airlock, go the government secrets. So that leaves you with long-lost lovers reappearing at the worst possible moment. And ancient tech that no one fully understands.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

I will embrace the ancient tech.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yes. Well, you actually got down to the magic number. These are the last two in your uh in your cargo, the lovers and the ancient tech. Awesome. Brings us back to questions, and these next three are about reading, writing, and craft. So, what authors have influenced your writing the most, and what have you learned from their work that has directly shaped your own approach to storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Uh, one of the authors that have uh influenced me the most is an author call uh named N. E. Davenport. And she is the author of the uh Blood Trials Duology. And what I really liked about her writing is it it just felt unapologetically herself. And I I really also enjoyed the thorough descriptions. It was just very artful to me, and it felt like I got a a good lesson in how to write from a first person point of view for a book.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Yeah. That's a I I love when like a voice really just sucks you in and it's it's like uh. I I feel like voice is the most important part of craft, and like, because you can get a book that'll have the most amazing plot, but if the voice is like the most boring thing you have ever put your eyes on, it's like this is torture. This right. This is against the Eighth Amendment, yeah. Uh so your stories blend vivid action and adventure with heavier social issues. How do you approach pacing when you're balancing intense combat and high-stakes moments with deeper ethical or political questions?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So um pacing, pacing can be difficult, but it's about having, I believe they're called sequels, just those moments of peace within the story. Um, just having those moments for the the fun and games, so to speak. Yeah. Um, and I think that really helps with the with the pacing. Given giving the reader a break from some of the all of the action and adventure.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Now you've said somewhere that your goal is to deliver absolute quality and a fun adventure for readers. When you're revising a draft, what are the specific things you look for to make sure the story feels both polished and exciting?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Um, couple of things. One, I look for uh character development. You know, are my characters uh progressing through their arc in a way that is going to be interesting to the reader and want them and want to make them keep reading the story and keep reading about the characters. Another thing that I look for is uh, of course, uh, you know, I I look for the typical uh you know misspelling of words. I look for redundant redundant word use um throughout my time writing. I have found that I use the words toward a lot, going toward the door, walking toward, walking toward the person. I also um overuse the word through sometimes. You know, a chill ran through him. He went through the door. Um a uh happiness rippled through him. And uh sometimes I overused the word with. Um he he swiped the air with his hand, um, with an angry look in his eyes. Uh he said this. Um with a defiant walk, he did this. I'm like, I overuse this too much, so I definitely look for that when I'm editing too, to deliver uh quality because I don't want things to constantly sound uh repetitive.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah. Those adverb phrases uh as a writer are quite addictive, though, just to be like, yeah, I want this clear image in your head.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Right. But uh avoiding using those, it it makes you think and challenges yourself. Yes. You start to ask your way, okay, how can I start to say these things without using these words or using a different word?

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yeah. That brings us to the second official game of the podcast. Alright, which is a spelling bee.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

So, uh, traditional spelling bee rules, I'll give you the word, the phonetic pronunciation, a definition, and an example of the sentence. Um You just have to spell it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Can I use Google?

SPEAKER_03 22:04

You cannot use Google. You cannot use Google, you cannot use spellcheck, you cannot use your text message spell check. It's all all up in your head.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Okay. Let's give it a shot.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yeah, we are on the honor system today, sir. Alright, first word is penultimate.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Penultimate. P-E-N U-L-T-I-M-A-T-E.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yes. The second word is retribution.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

R-E-T-R-I-D-U-T-I-O-N.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yes. The third word, annihilation.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Um, A-N. I H A L T I O N.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

So close. There is a second N. It is A-N-N-I-H-I-A-L. Word number four conscience.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

C-O-N-S C-I-E-N C E.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yes. Cataclysm.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Cataclysm.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

C A T A C L I S M.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Very close. It is a it is a Y instead of the I. Ah. The sixth born adversary. A D V E R S.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

A R Y? Yes. Almost said E-R-Y. Almost.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

The seventh word. Allegiance.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Allegiance.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Um that would be Uh A-L I E G E N C E A-L-L-E-G-I-A-N-C-E. Ah word number eight insurrection.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Uh I N S U R R E C T I O N.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yes. Word number nine paradox. P A R A D O X. Yes. And the last one Catastrophe. Catastrophe.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

C A T A S T R O H as an E.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

So it is T-R-O-P-H-E. Yeah. It was and phonetics is hard. And now we are down to our final questions, and these are all kinda chaotic sleep over sleepy haha questions. You are trapped on a spaceship for a week with one fictional character from any sci-fi universe. Who are you picking and how quickly does the situation spiral out of control?

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I could be trapped with any character from any science fiction universe. Who would I pick? That's a good question. I'm gonna go with I don't know what I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I've seen a lot of Star Trek too. You know what?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yoda.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

I think I think I'd take Q from Star Trek, and the situation is immediately out of control.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Just I think I'd pick Yoda, but I think eventually might drive might drive me a little nuts, I think. Maybe a little.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Like, dude, I just want to nap. I don't want to carry you like a backpack, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

If you had to swap the tone of your series with another genre, like rom com, cozy mystery, high fantasy, which one would be the funniest disaster?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

The funniest disaster. Um I'll go with rom com.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

I think it'd be the funniest disaster.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Have you ever seen the uh the remade trailers where they take uh like horror movie trailers and people redo the the music and stuff behind them and recut them to make them like a rom com?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

I have not seen that.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Oh, you gotta look it up. They're so funny. And it's just like the one with screen where it's like hello, and they're like, oh my god, hi!

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Like I'll have to check that out.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yeah, they're funny. I love them. Uh which is more terrifying? A. Your main character making a decision that you did not plan, or B realizing your villain is actually right.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Um, I think realizing my villain is actually right would be the most terrifying because he's supposed to be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

I had a teacher, uh Joe McGee, he used to teach a uh section on like writing villains, and that was a big part was that a a truly terrifying villain is one that you agree with, where like that makes you question whether or not your beliefs are correct, and I'm like, yes, yes, dangerous villains. You wake up tomorrow and discover one of your characters has taken over your writing process and is now dictating the story. Who do you hope it isn't?

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Who do I hope that it isn't? Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

You know, I would say that I I would hope that it wouldn't be uh my villainous Zataldra taking over my writing process, um, because she she has the um she has the um basically the belief that all of humanity is bad because of her experiences, so I don't think I would want her taking over my writing process and painting myself and every everyone else that I know as uh terrible human beings.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Number five, be honest. How many tabs of research turn into watching random sci-fi clips, comic lore, deep dives, or Netflix instead of writing?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

How many tabs? I I guess I would have to say let's go with ten.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

I've got about ten tabs open right now, and we're recording podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah. I'll go with ten. So it is 3 a.m. at a chaotic writer's sleepover, and someone says, I have an idea for a new book. Are you the one starting the brainstorm spiral, or are you the one begging everyone to just go to sleep?

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Um, I think I would be the one starting the brainstorm spiral. Um, I like brainstorming new ideas, trying to flesh out new ideas, figure out who the characters are, what are their arcs, their misbeliefs, uh, all of the above.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

I am the big same. Like I love getting together with writers and helping people flesh out their ideas. It's so fun to like get into their process and their writing and their world. And one of the hosts on here, uh, most of us went to school together, but one of the hosts, Maggie, had come up with this fantasy world and there were two moons. And I was like, hey, how does that affect like the tide? And so then, like four hours later, we're still going through research on how the moon affects the tide and what would happen if there were a second moon, and would these moons ever like clash into each other? And and I'm like, I think we may have lost the plot. Like but now I now I fully understand how the moon works, and that's important. So if your series had to include one completely ridiculous sci-fi element, like sentient space hamsters, or a weaponized karaoke machine, or an alien species obsessed with fanfiction, which one would you add?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

I think the alien obsessed with fan fiction would be probably the most absurd and hilarious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Do you think aliens in your world would be writing fan fiction about your work? No, I do not believe that.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

No, and that's what makes it so hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

And the uh final official question is what is the most chaotic writing habit that you have that somehow still works for you?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Um the most chaotic writing habit. Chaotic? Um I think when I sometimes when I when I get started with writing, sometimes it's hard to stop, and I find myself writing for hours, and it's midnight, and I should have gone to bed so I could get up to go to work. I end up going to work late. Uh or I end up getting late. I end up waking up later than I had intended. But um I I end up getting a lot on page um that maybe I would not have gotten on page had I not just take had I not, you know, stayed up that extra hour and just get those thoughts out.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

I think my most my worst one, I think, uh, is leaving my self-notes via text message as I'm like falling asleep. I uh the the worst one to date has just been clockwork peacocks, and I'm like, what does it mean? What does it mean? What was I thinking? What what is this? I have no idea. I I I'm determined to put clockwork peacocks into some work somewhere, but I have no idea where they belong. But I I feel like like I have to, right? Like the the note was important to very sleepy Jessica. It's very important. Um I do have one question about the name of your villain. So I'm a little obsessed with names because my name is Jessica, and a toddler fell down a well in 1987, and now everybody is named Jessica, and so I'm always like really interested in names that I haven't heard before. So where does Zatoldra come from?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Um to be honest, it just comes from really just taking the time out and just trying to brainstorm a good name for um uh you know uh an alien woman and just really going, just really taking the time out to just really brainstorm it, really. And I've probably gone through several names. I've probably gone through uh Zedaldra or or something uh of that matter. So just really just experimenting with different variations, but yeah, naming characters is really something that's important to me because I really feel like you know, if if a character has the wrong name, it just won't be the same. The name really has to fit that character.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah. I've had like Are you a placeholder name kind of person when you can't think of one to name a new character?

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Um, yep, sometimes I I am. And it and it really bothers me that I don't have that name.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

I sometimes I'm just like, and this one's Bob for the next five chapters till I think of something. And then I got attached to Bob, and I'm like, but it can't be it can't be that name. And he doesn't fit. Right. Yeah, I totally get that. So we ask this of all of our guests at the end of every interview. Is there anyone that you would like to give a shout out to today? Anyone who helped you get the book out from workshop partners to agents to publishers? And if you did all the work yourself, then give yourself a big thank you.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Um sure. I would give a shout out to the developmental editor that I used for um my second book in the wars of the new humanities series and the third book, uh Republic Shattered Sins of Before. Uh, I believe that would be Liliani DeWendit. Um I hope I'm not pronouncing that incorrect, but um I I found that developmental uh editor on I guess it's called Fiverr, fever. I'm not sure which they call it. I think it is Fiverr. Fiverr, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh I feel like I really lucked up um and uh found somebody who who's pretty good. Yeah. And I would give a shout out to her because um she always made me aware if a character wasn't um acting the way that they should. Well, she would point out that um this action that this character is taking seems out of character for them. And she would point out other things in the story that needed to be uh tightened up. Um, you know, wouldn't this character put up more of a struggle? Wouldn't they be more stubborn? And it really helped me keep some characters on track and uh you know really refine some small things that I can say the book wouldn't be the same if I had not refined those small things.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Very nice. Uh and do you want to just like plug your socials or website, let everybody know where to find you in your books?

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yep. They can go to authormbrooks.com. Um, from that website, there are also links to find me on uh Twitter. I'm also on threads, I'm also on Instagram uh and uh TikTok. So you just head on over to authormbrooks.com and you can find all of the social media links uh there.