They Like My Sister: The Hunger Games, Chapters 1-7

We volunteer!
It's the first episode of our official reread of The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins, and there's so much we're picking out now that we know where the series goes. Jess, Katy, and Julia discuss catalysts of revolution, whether or not Katniss is on the spectrum, the potential state of elder care in District 12, the evolution of teen lit, and much more. 

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Hosts: Jessica Mary, K. Leigh,  and Julia.

Booked All Night is produced by Rob Cook and edited by Rob Cook & Jessica Mary. 

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Theme: Whistle Joyride by TopFlow

Game show music credits: Music by ⁠⁠Dvir Silver⁠⁠ from ⁠⁠Pixabay

No cakes were harmed in the recording of this episode. 

Transcript

Intro 0:04

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes me craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess. I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes. A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shade. Grab your blankets, booklets. It's time to get booked all night.

Jessica Mary 0:24

And welcome to Booked All Night. Uh, I am Jess.

K. Leigh 0:27

I am Kaylee.

Julia 0:28

I'm Julia.

Jessica Mary 0:29

Yay! We are diving into chapters one through seven of the Hunger Games, and this series reread will lead all the way up to the release of the new movie Sunrise on the Reaping in November. So if you want to read along with us, just visit bookedallnight.co, again, that is bookedallnight.co, to see the reading and interview schedules. Join the Discord to tell us how wrong you think we are, and send us fan mail with the link in every description. If for some reason this is your first time reading the Hunger Caves, and you want to avoid spoilers, just hit the pause button until you finish chapter seven, and we will be here when you're ready. Hit that pause button now, because we're about to dive in. Okay, you've had enough time to hit the pause button. So let's dive in. So in this section, we saw the reaping and the quintessential I volunteer. We were on the train, we saw the chariots, the costumes, a lot of teen nudity. We met Katniss Pita Hamich Effie Sinna and caught a glimpse of President Snow plus the other tributes. We did a little bit of training and we took a great big bow to thank everyone for their consideration. I forgot a lot of things that happened in the book proper.

K. Leigh 1:43

I think I forgot maybe two things in the beginning. And that is that they already talk about mutations with the mocking Jays. And I never caught that when reading the first time uh for the later parts, you know, in the actual games. Um I never put like two and two together. And then the girl on the train.

Julia 2:10

Oh, the I forgot about that whole part. A Box?

Jessica Mary 2:15

The A-Vox.

K. Leigh 2:16

I forgot about her name. The A Box, yes, yeah.

Jessica Mary 2:18

Mm-hmm. I remembered that part, but I didn't remember that Katniss had seen her. There's a whole dialogue. Well, not dialogue, there's a whole like memory that she has where she's like, Yeah, I definitely remember this girl and a boy running from the Capitol, and Gail and I definitely saw her. And it's beyond taboo for them to be talking to her about her life prior to being in Avox. And so Hamich and Peter are like, no, you definitely do not remember her. No, she just she just looks like somebody. Shut your fucking mouth. That's not you can't say anything. Like. And there's a lot of like deep state watching you, of course, because it's Hunger Games and what is Dystopia without the deep state watching you. This one with the Avox was kind of like, okay, I can understand maybe not knowing that, maybe kind of forgetting where you are and the rules of your world. But there's a part right in the beginning where she says out loud to herself, she's like, uh, District 12, where you can starve to death in safety. And then she glances over her shoulder, like, oh, you shouldn't be saying anything. I'm like, why the f are you talking out loud? You are alone.

K. Leigh 3:38

Oh, because she thinks she's alone. I think we're doesn't seem to be anything except the capital for real. And and that's the thing, like you can forget that you're alone. Even even if you grew up in a place like District 12, you know, there's gonna be times where you forget that you're like alone, like you're not alone, but you're alone. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 4:04

It was just weird because it came so quickly against the juxtaposition of like everybody's watching us all the time. But here I am openly critically saying something. There's another part where Gail doesn't say it, but she says Gail would say it if they knew that they were truly alone, and it's about the capital keeping them separated and at each other's throats and things like that. Yeah, it Gail Gail might say it's to the Capitol's advantage to have us divided amongst ourselves, which is something he would not say within the perimeter.

Julia 4:41

Did you forget anything, Julia? Honestly, not really. I I feel like I'm missing all of my thoughts. I had so many thoughts written down. I found on okay, I found rereading this, I I cried the whole time. I like just felt so emotional watching like you know everything that's gonna happen, and just watching all these people kind of like get her ready and um yeah, just wanting her to accept the help from PETA and all that stuff. It was just like I don't know, I just got really emotional the whole time.

K. Leigh 5:19

So yeah, and I think the whole PETA thing is uh is is good that you brought it up because when you originally read it, you only have her initial thoughts, right? Oh, he's setting me up to win, you know, he's setting me up so that way I don't kill him and he kills me first. He's setting me up so he looks better, all this stuff. And then when you when you're rereading it, you're like, oh no, you dumb girl, you dumb bitch.

Julia 5:46

Oh my god, that's what my notes are. She has such a poor opinion of herself, it's wild. Yes, like, well, I hope all those people do all that amazing stuff for my sister because my sister's amazing, and you're like, Okay. The people only helped me because my dad was nice. Like, okay.

Jessica Mary 6:09

Yeah. She flops back and forth on it too, because she goes between, I'm a piece of shit, and my father was amazing, and my sister is amazing, and my mother could also die for all I care, which is her general opinion of the state of things. But then also is like, I became independent and I taught myself how to hunt beyond what my father taught me, and I became capable, and all of that. I'm like, okay, yeah, we'll stay here, and then she just immediately flops back to I don't deserve anybody's help, and I don't make friends, and nobody likes me, and Pita's definitely trying to kill me. Oh, he's kind of cute. She flops back on that too. That my notes are like all over the place where I'll because I wanted to watch and be like, okay, did Team Gail have a leg to stand on? And she outright says Gail could be her brother.

Julia 6:59

Well, they just say that they look the same. Like that everyone. Yeah, they look the same.

Jessica Mary 7:04

He could be my brother, but this is there was nothing ever romantic between the two of them.

Julia 7:08

Well, but I think that's her just being like, there was never any, like, there couldn't have possibly been anything. And you're like, like, you know, those girls that they're like, no, we're just friends, and you're like, what the f okay, for sure. For sure. I didn't feel like there was a lot of flippy floppy with her. I felt like everything that she was saying about like her capacity was out of desperation. It she didn't come across as her thinking she was a good person for doing this. She was like, Well, if I did it, no one else would. I don't think that's like a gold star for her.

Jessica Mary 7:47

At the same time, in some of those sections where she is saying, like, I did this out of necessity, she's also saying, I am a good shot, I'm a good hunter, I'm capable of doing this, and people pay top dollar for well, top dollar in the seam in the district, quote unquote, for what I'm offering. And I've learned a bunch, and now I'm I'm smarter and better for having done this. And so there are these periods where she does build herself up on that skill and then immediately tear herself down. Right.

Julia 8:15

I feel like it's almost like a it's almost like just describing a chair and being like, this is a chair and having no emotional attachment to it. It's almost like she's disassociating that part of her life for how she sees herself as a person, where the rest of us are like, No, you're super capable. And even Pita's like, you're super capable. And she's like, Oh yeah, well, you're super capable too. And he's like, Thank you. I I know that. Thank you.

Jessica Mary 8:42

That part was like cringy, like I right? Oh yeah, well, you can throw bags of flour, like you're like super strong, and you've got like big muscles. Like it was just a really weird spot.

K. Leigh 8:57

And and do we really think that someone being strong will help them? Like it'll help them, but what else can he do?

Julia 9:07

He can wrestle we talk about that.

K. Leigh 9:11

That's true. Listen, I I totally understand and I get that, but um I'm talking about like in her point of view. Why do you think like her pointing out, well, you're strong? Okay, but so are the district one boys. Cause they don't have to labor, like they literally train for this, like since they're kids. So, yes, they're strong. So in her mind, you know, like why didn't you bring up something else other than hey, you're strong?

Jessica Mary 9:40

I think there is also something the district one kids would have a different development of muscle. Like the way that I picture the district one kids are kind of like bodybuilder. Yeah, they're gyms. Yeah, like Jim Bros. Like they they have they have big muscles, but they're for show versus Pita, who kinda in my head has a stockier, more functional build, where like you would do the strongman thing.

K. Leigh 10:04

Yeah. Because you're actually laboring.

Jessica Mary 10:06

Yeah, and and that's a different set of muscle, that's a different use that would be more functional in a fight versus someone who like, oh, what's that one wrestler has like super big shoulder muscles and its neck starts above his ears. Yeah, all of them is right.

Julia 10:25

I understand what you're saying though. Um how it's a weird thing for her to like compliment him on. It's almost like she was like fishing for compliments. Like, oh my god, you're so pretty. I uh I like your shirt.

Jessica Mary 10:41

Uh like you're your eyebrows are two separate caterpillars.

K. Leigh 10:47

Like, I agree that it's a weird thing for her to try, but right, especially when you especially when you know that there are people who train for this. Yeah. Since they're little. And I think I think that was just honestly a dumb thing.

Julia 11:03

I really like that they didn't talk more about the strategy that Pita had around him making the romantic claim. It was like he made the claim and then she shoved him, and then we never talked about it again. And I was like, I feel like that would be a full-blown, we're gonna, why did you do that? Where's your thought process with this? Not just I'm mad, and then okay, I'm not mad anymore.

Jessica Mary 11:27

Yeah, like I don't even remember getting to that part. We didn't get to that part.

Julia 11:32

Yeah, I got a little carried away.

Jessica Mary 11:35

Yeah, my bad. Yeah, no, like that's the other thing is that my brain is mixed up with like the movie timeline, and so I'm like, this is this definitely happened before then, but not, but no, but yes. And thank god I don't have a test on it because we stopped at the end of chapter seven. I did read ahead.

Julia 11:52

That was my issue. I actually kept reading, and I was like, so okay, sorry. I thought that that was before the pig's mouth thing. Okay, sorry, I'm so sorry. No, uh we'll just add that to the next time.

Jessica Mary 12:08

Uh chapter seven ends where she takes the bow, is when she's like, Thank you for your consideration.

Julia 12:14

I just forgot where where the other part was. Um Yeah.

K. Leigh 12:19

Well, it's a good thing you didn't spoil anything for us.

Julia 12:23

Okay, if this was like we're all just reading this for the first time, then I wouldn't have. But I just like literally, I all of a sudden was like, that was chapter 11. Juliet, you need to stop.

Jessica Mary 12:35

I feel I feel like you might be calling me out for something, Katie. I spoilies. I feel a little scenes. Um okay, so we we were reading um Heartless Hunter by Kristen Cicarelli, and I was really excited to read it with them because they hadn't read it. I had read it, I went through my arc, they went through the published version, and this is a lesson for everybody that gets advanced copies is that the advanced copy is not always the finished copy, and I revealed big stuff to them that they had already suspected it, and I was like, God damn it, because like the reveal of it was so good, but if you went through and did a close reading in the advanced copy, you were like, aha!

K. Leigh 13:19

You found out that spoiler before the published version. They took that part out for the published version.

Jessica Mary 13:25

Yeah. But now I know.

Julia 13:27

We don't ever find out like what PETA did to get that eight, right? Because she gets the eleven. Obviously. That's next chapter, but we don't ever find out Yeah, no, he just walks out and he's like, There's my tier turn.

Jessica Mary 13:47

Cool. They they also kept an eye on the District 12 tributes. Like she mentions it when the game makers come in and they're just kind of walking around and watching them. She's like, they keep a distinct eye on the district twelve tributes watching us, and I'm like, why? Like I think it's because of the salute that they didn't.

Julia 14:16

And these people are bored, and so they're like, Oh, the these people are kind of doing some fun stuff. Like, what the what's District 12 gonna do this year?

Jessica Mary 14:25

Like they're gonna light each other on fire, is what they're gonna okay. So that was weird too, because I don't remember her being completely naked while getting assessed by everybody, and there's so many-that one part where she's like, I might as well just stay naked.

Julia 14:44

I was like, a strange man is coming into your room and you just have zero care to put clothes on. Okay, goddess.

Jessica Mary 14:52

Yeah, like you're you're 16, you don't wanna you don't want to cover. Yeah, I'll just stand here because there's so many lines where they're like, Oh, he looks over my naked body, they look over my naked body, they poke and prod my naked body. I'm like, put something on.

Julia 15:08

Nah.

Jessica Mary 15:09

Yeah, here it is. I stand there completely naked as three circle me, wielding tweezers to remove any last bits of hair. And one of them's like, You look almost human. Thanks, guys. Yeah, how did she not reach out and just like throat punch a dude at that? Because she gets so mad about every other little thing, and then someone's like, You almost look like a human being.

Julia 15:29

She just feels bad for them, though. And I think that speaks to her, I don't know, empathy that she doesn't think that she has. She's like, they're so cute.

Jessica Mary 15:40

There is definitely an understanding she has that like they also kind of don't have a choice in how things are run and and and going. Not that she is still like you don't have a choice, but also fuck you guys.

K. Leigh 15:58

Like Right. I think my opinion is a little like a a mix, a weird mix, because I mean she's standing there in front of adults that she doesn't know and she's completely naked and she has no choice. So I completely understand that she feels violated, right? And they're literally like removing all of her hair. And very weird and awkward. But at the same time, I feel like the end result is not something of violation, right? Like they didn't give her a costume that shows off all her curves and is like half naked, and you know, like they like No, and in previous years they had just put them out in like a black dusting of coal dust or whatever.

Jessica Mary 16:46

But I think there is something to be said about the removal of the hair because when they present them for the reaping, they are all in these clothes and ribbons that make them look young and innocent and yes, clean almost, you know, so that they're not poor, so that they look like something viable, something worth purchasing, which given what we know happens to the tributes later on, is especially disturbing. And then you come here, you have all of your body hair removed, which makes you look younger for gross, gross purposes. And there are grown people around them. There's four grown people looking at a naked 16-year-old, and you have to assume that each of them, each of these tributes are getting a similar treatment. So then there's, you know, Rue, who's 12. Yes. Is she also just bare ass naked while they're removing any body hair?

K. Leigh 17:39

Right, and that's and that's why I say like I do feel like I sympathize and I understand the violation part of it, right? Like I I get it. I think especially with Rue, anyone would feel violated in in that situation. But I feel like for for Cinna, like he's literally just looking at her body for the measurements, right? And like he's not like looking at her going, ooh, like sexy, you know.

Jessica Mary 18:07

I still think it's weird. No, I I completely agree. Yeah, but I can I can see where you're coming from that he's not like, what can I do to this child?

Julia 18:16

No, there's there's definitely never any like predatory language or anything like that. I thought it was weird that she didn't feel more violated, to be honest with you.

K. Leigh 18:26

Yeah.

Julia 18:27

Her just being like, Well, I'm just gonna continue standing here until the next guy shows up all nonchalant. And I was like, What do you mean? Like, what? Yeah, like you don't want to feel this doesn't feel weird for you.

Jessica Mary 18:41

Like Right, right. I would say the only part where Cinna does a a real violation for this particular like scene is that he lights them on fire and then he lets out a sigh of relief and he's like, uh, it works. He tested lighting that material on fire on them, not before giving it to them. Right. Yeah, I can I can read it to you right now. Uh here we go, then he says, and before we can react, he sets our capes on fire. I gasp, waiting for the heat, but there is only a faint tickling sensation. Cinna climbs up before us and ignites our headdresses. He lets out a sigh of relief. It works. Then he gently tucks a hand under my chin. Remember, heads up, hi, smiles, they're gonna love you.

Julia 19:30

I didn't read it like that.

Jessica Mary 19:33

It works. That's that's what he lets out a sigh of relief. It works.

Julia 19:37

I guess, like, as someone who like I make a lot of clothing, and like this year I made a dress that like lit up. And so it's like, Oh like, yeah, okay, but you finally get it all together and you've tested it about a thousand times, but then it's like, okay, it worked. And like you finally see the whole picture, and like that's how I saw it, and not like, oh good, the life, the fire didn't let them on fire. It's kind of like the sigh of release relief that the whole package looks nice, is kind of where the artistic way that I took that.

Jessica Mary 20:08

This is why read a response is important because I definitely took it like he lit children on fire and went, ha, it works. I can see how it can be read the other way, but I my my only response to this is that he lit children on fire. It was like, hey.

Julia 20:23

Do you guys find it funny? Like, I don't know, I'm really struggling to remove my image of like Jennifer Lawrence and what's his name? Who plays PETA? Josh Hutchinson to remove the images of them from what like reading this because every time they talk about how beefy PETA is, I just laugh. And then they're like, she looked up at him. I'm like, she's never done that a day in her life. Like no.

Jessica Mary 20:58

That short man is not getting looked up at no no no.

K. Leigh 21:02

So I actually am listening to it in audiobook this round. Yeah. Um, so for me, Katniss, the narrator, uh, does not sound like Jennifer Lawrence, so it's easier to imagine her a different way, like the way that I imagined her when I first read the book. But Pita, I still imagine Josh. So yes, that that's a little bit harder.

Jessica Mary 21:26

Yeah.

K. Leigh 21:27

Hey, Mitch, of course.

Jessica Mary 21:28

Um the end.

Julia 21:32

It's so hard to just not picture the movie.

Jessica Mary 21:35

It Cinna was definitely a struggle as well to not have uh what is it with Lenny Kravitz? Lenny Kravitz, yeah. Uh just in my head, and the outfits as well. Yeah. I I kept making notes there because I got the reaping, Effie's in bright green, not that like mauve pink pink kind of thing that she's in in the movies. And in the movies there In that leather get up here, she's like, I'm in a unitard and a like orange cape and knee-high boots. I'm like, that's not at all what they put you in in the movies. And that's it. Whenever someone's like, here's a unitard, all I can think of is like my old dance costumes.

K. Leigh 22:17

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mary 22:17

You know, like it's not something that's functional or pretty to look at, and it's it's just like something that was supposed to be worn under a uniform, unless you had really weird teachers, in which case they were like, the unitard is the only costume.

K. Leigh 22:32

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mary 22:33

They never set it on fire, though, so I guess that's a plus.

K. Leigh 22:36

It'd be interesting if if they did.

Julia 22:38

Did you guys pick up on all of the little almost setups for the rebellion that start so early? Yes.

K. Leigh 22:48

Yeah. Yes.

Julia 22:49

I it's really hard to read it and not be like, did they know? Like, how do you how do you plan that far ahead? Like the mayor's daughter giving her that pin.

K. Leigh 23:01

That's yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Like, how do you know? Like, how did you plan this? Because it wasn't planned that she was gonna volunteer, right?

Julia 23:12

So and and then Hemich and them are all like talking quietly at some points, and like, sorry, what were you gonna say?

K. Leigh 23:19

I was gonna say, like, it's crazy that PETA knows, like, while he's on the train, like the the I guess I don't know when he finds out, but it's definitely like at least, if not before, the first night on the train. Because like when he's talking about the about the rebellion. Katniss is like the the symbol of it, you know? Because like he he talks about how good she is, and it just it just seems like he's willing to lay down his life for her for this rebellion, you know.

Jessica Mary 23:56

I think that's in part due to his reaction that she volunteered, and maybe not necessarily that he is completely aware. I think he suspects because of the the three-finger salute that they give, which is like a fond farewell and respect and everything else, was also used a lot during the rebellion. But I don't think that he knows a hundred percent that Katniss is about to get raised up, and that that is an argument to have later as well, after trying to say this without ruining it, just in case somebody hasn't.

Julia 24:32

Honestly, too bad for them. Sorry to say, if you're really you know what, too bad. It's been it's been like a goodness in here and be like, oh my god, spoilies. Bye.

Jessica Mary 24:42

Well, here, here's my spoiler alert. Rue dies. And the argument is that Rue is the actual mocking Jay. She's the catalyst. Because one, like in the arena, that's you watch a child die, it's it's horrendous, and she's not one of the ones that goes during like the big bloodbath at the beginning of it. So it's oh, she might survive, there's something there, and she is shown respect, and it's the respect that's shown to the death of this child that is part of that catalyst. So I don't know that I would truly say that the intent has always been to raise Katniss up, but I think the intent has always been to raise someone up in this game specifically.

Julia 25:28

I don't know, I just felt like all the adults around them, more so than like PETA and stuff, were all just puppeting things in a way that was like, why are you making these such distinct choices? Like to have them hold hands, to have them look the same. It's like this is way further planning than just like, oh, these two people have some chemistry.

K. Leigh 25:52

Like, yeah, 100% that was hard to wrap my mind around.

Julia 25:58

Also, like for her to just get a good designer randomly, like I don't know. That he chose he chose district 12. He asked for asked for district 12. You do you boo? Like, yeah, yeah, definitely. I don't know.

K. Leigh 26:14

I I think and maybe they had been planning it and they didn't know who they were going to raise up, like you know, like like Jess said, and then she volunteered, and District 12 did the the three-finger salute, and therefore they were like, Yep, it's her.

Julia 26:31

Oh, like almost her, it's already started, like sleeper cell sort of situation. Like we've been waiting for this.

Jessica Mary 26:36

Yeah, like they were just waiting for something.

K. Leigh 26:38

This is it, this is our time. Yeah, the the people are ready. So I don't know, but it just it's it is a little weird. You know, right from the start.

Jessica Mary 26:51

Hamich's plan from the start is like stay together, make it look like you're getting along, make it look like you're laughing at things. And Katniss, of course, is one of the many times that she tears herself down, she's like, PET is way better at this than I am. I'm talking about chasing a bear, he's talking about cakes. Like, we are not the same person. What is going on here? So Right? I'm like, girl, you talk about a bear. Come on. Yeah. And they still glued themselves to each other even without that directive. Like when they're in the chariot and he grabs her hand. In the movie, she's like, Ew, gross, don't touch me. But here in the book, he's like, No, please don't let go of me, I'm gonna fall out of this thing. And when they get out, they're still like gripping each other so tightly. I would say here because they're like, I can't believe that just happened, and I'm kind of panicking over what is happening, and everything is happening so fast. But also team PETA, but you know, that's just my humble opinion. He's a lot Did someone just say I love y

K. Leigh 27:49

ou? It uh my husband's putting my child to bed.

Jessica Mary 27:53

Oh, okay. Team PETA. I love you.

K. Leigh 27:59

Yes, Joe is definitely teen Pita.

Jessica Mary 28:02

So cute.

K. Leigh 28:03

Because you know, he he works and with bread.

Jessica Mary 28:06

So yes, everybody has bread.

K. Leigh 28:09

And he is an artist, so he could literally Oh, can he can he plunge himself into the ground with cake and icing? I mean, I think it would be weird if a cake had a beard, but but yes.

Jessica Mary 28:25

Uh oh, where's the line when she finally gets annoyed with him? Because a lot of the lines she has, she's like, oh, well, that was a nice compliment, but why are you complimenting me? You're just trying to lure me and to kill me and make me like easier to kill so I don't fight back or some such nonsense. Yeah, here it is. Uh I hear Peter's voice in my head. She has no idea the effect she can have. Obviously, this is meant to demean me, right? But a tiny part of me wonders if this was a compliment. And so she she kind of has a lot of moments like that where she's like, oh, that was really nice of you. Fuck you. How dare you!

Julia 28:59

I don't know though. She has no reason to think this is anything other than all of the trauma she's ever seen. So Yeah.

Jessica Mary 29:07

Like No, and that and that's true. Like, there's there's n I'm not pointing this out to be like, well, she obviously likes him. I mean, she does. Point blank. I think it's very obvious that she's like, oh, he's nice. We have to kill each other, but he's nice. That's a shame.

Julia 29:25

I think one of like my favorite parts about it is when she realizes that he's just a kind person, and she's just so blown away by the fact that he's just a kind human being, and like to have to go through your whole life to strategize every breath that you take, and that's how you feel, like you need to live your life. Like, oh she was like, he's just kind, he just doesn't want Hamish to like be embarrassed, and all I was like, I love him so much. Ma Shela!

K. Leigh 30:01

Yeah, it I do think that that Pita is saying what the readers are thinking, right? Yeah, because we know that her hunting skills and everything she brings back to the district, like people appreciate that, right? Because she's basically helping them keep them alive, right? Yeah, and they genuinely like her because she's doing this, she doesn't have to, she could bring back the food just for her family, right? And that's what we know. And then in her head, like we said before, she's just like, Oh, well, they like they like my sister, they like my sister, they like my sister, they don't like me, they like my sister, you know? And it's like Pita does summarize what we're all thinking. It's like, no, they like you too. You have an effect on people, whether you realize it or not.

Jessica Mary 30:52

That's a great point to bring up because she's she's whenever she describes it, she's talking about feeding her family and doing these things for her family. But the food that she brings back, everyone benefits from.

K. Leigh 31:04

Yes.

Jessica Mary 31:05

She is a key part to the ecosystem of the seam and keeping the seam alive, not just Prim and her mother and the asshole cat. And she doesn't realize that, just like when she's coming here and like, okay, what are you guys good at? And she's like, I don't know. I mean, she literally threw a knife into the seam of a door on the train. And she's like, I didn't mean to do that.

Julia 31:29

Literally, but like I loved that part. She's like, that made me look way cooler. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 31:36

But like, if I threw a knife at a door, it would bounce off the door, right? Like, it there wouldn't be any sticking to it regardless. And it's a it's a very weird thing to see. Uh I'm I'm pretty certain we are all guilty of it, right? Where there's something we're very good at, somebody points it out, and we're like, no. No, I don't have that problem. Not just me. Uh-huh. Yeah, no, me neither. Certainly, no. Mm-mm. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I, I, I don't know what you're talking about. I mm-mm. No, no, no. I would never past that lie. I think everybody does, in fact, have something like that where it's very blatant to everyone else that this is something that you excel at. But because you don't excel at it like whoever taught it to you, or whoever you're looking at, or whoever you are uh pitting yourself against, you're like, I'm worthless. Her view of herself right now is not her view of Katniss, it's Katniss versus 23 other tributes.

Julia 32:37

But I also think there's something to be said about having no one in your life telling you you're doing a good job.

Jessica Mary 32:43

Yeah.

Julia 32:44

Like her mom wasn't super appreciative. She talks about how almost it's she's always just wanting more. She's got what prim? And then she just spends the rest of her time working. So it's not like anyone's like, oh my god, Candace is here. She brought this stuff. Amazing. Wow.

Jessica Mary 33:03

Yeah, a simple thank you goes a long way.

Julia 33:06

And Gail's not fucking doing that either. So like yeah, it's hard to not think you're amazing when no one has ever told you you're good. Yeah. Which is really sad.

Jessica Mary 33:23

What a depressing note to bring up in the middle of a podcast.

Julia 33:27

You guys have people that tell you you're good at stuff, right? If not, you guys are good at a lot of stuff, okay? Oh, thank you.

Jessica Mary 33:34

I'm not though. I'm kidding. I'm amazing at everything. I have a trophy that says so.

K. Leigh 33:40

That's amazing. That's amazing. But you can throw flower bags around.

Jessica Mary 33:44

No, Maggie got it for me.

Julia 33:46

That's amazing. That's even better.

Jessica Mary 33:49

I did find the line where she's just getting annoyed with him that I was looking for earlier that started this whole thing. Where it was, somehow the whole thing, his skill, those inaccessible cakes, the praise of the camouflage expert annoys me. And she says, It's lovely if only you could frost someone to death.

Julia 34:08

She's so salty, my god. I doubt. Even the part where um the mayor's daughter comes and sees her and gives her the pin or whatever, and the girl leaves and she's like, Wow, I guess she was a friend this whole time. Like the person that you hang out with every day?

Jessica Mary 34:29

I can understand having the surprise to PETA's father coming in, and he's like, Here's some cookies. You're gonna kill my son. Like, okay, fine. I'd be like, hey, maybe I don't want to eat these. That seems a little sus. But yeah, the girl that I walked home from school with every day and routinely had conversations with. No, I don't consider her a friend. Why would we be friends? We just we just laugh together. So silly.

K. Leigh 34:57

Why would we be friends?

Jessica Mary 35:00

Why would we be friends? Uh yeah. Uh uh. This I think that's part of the reason a lot of people are like catnesses on the spectrum.

Julia 35:13

Oh, for one, but obviously.

Jessica Mary 35:16

Yeah. She 100% does not read social cues. Yeah. She's just like social cues. Everyone hates me. Can I eat those? No, absolutely not. Everybody hates me.

Julia 35:29

I thought I I didn't realize, because it doesn't come across obviously as much in the movies, and that was probably the last amount of media I consumed of this series. But I forgot how much she hated her mom.

Jessica Mary 35:45

Oh, so much. It comes up all the time.

Julia 35:48

Literally, and I was like, oh yeah, you really hated her for good reason. But also at the same time, like it that's gonna sound bad. But it doesn't seem like her mom's depressed for that long.

Jessica Mary 36:03

I think her mom is depressed for long enough that once Prim and Katniss begin to suffer from it, that the what's the word I'm looking for?

Julia 36:15

Like the damage is done.

Jessica Mary 36:17

Yeah, the dam the damage is there, it's done. And Katniss was eleven or so, she was younger than being able to put her name in for Yeah, when she gets the bread from PETA, she's eleven. Yeah, so you know, being eleven, being 9, 10, 11 years old, however old she was when like her father died and her mom completely withdrew, and then suddenly she has to literally become the breadwinner, but um tish for her family. It I can see that being a a huge, huge issue for the rest of her life. Even if her mom came back when she was now 16 and she like wakes up and she does her hair and she makes her breakfast and she goes, Thank you for going out and hunting today. Even if that I would think Katniss would still have a leg to stand on to be like, yeah, fuck you.

K. Leigh 37:13

I was just gonna say, like, I a hundred percent agree, and I am definitely there with you guys, um, especially because I had somewhat of a similar experience in my life with a family member. Um, but also like at least she got up once like Katniss brought home something and like um like cut it up and made dinner and and stuff like that. Like maybe she because I know that she withdrew, but how far did she withdrew? Especially if she got up and she was taking care of the the dinner and and then went back to bed. Exactly. You know what I'm saying?

Julia 37:48

Exactly. That's what I'm saying is like it seems like she was having this laying in bed episode for like a couple months, and then Katniss had that transformative moment, and then all of a sudden her mom's like doing apothecary stuff, and it's like, okay, well, that was five years ago, and you're really hanging on to this couple months here. When she first introduces her mom, it comes across as her mom has been doing this up until a couple weeks ago. Whereas, like, oh no, this was like a long time ago. It seems like you gave her a nudge and then the whole family was together on this, but you've just decided to shoulder this emotional burden the whole time and think you're standing there on your own.

Jessica Mary 38:33

Yeah. I think what happens too is kind of like what we said earlier that her mom doesn't come back with, thank you for taking care of the family when I couldn't, or just thank you for taking care of the family, or thank you for doing what you're doing, because every year she puts her name in.

K. Leigh 38:52

Or even thank you for being a friend. Yeah. Travel down the road and back again. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 38:58

Yeah. She doesn't give her any golden girl shit. Yeah. Which is absolutely rude, negligible. I mean, you could call the authorities for that level. God, can you imagine what like elder care is in Pan Am? None. Yeah, putting them into a furnace.

Julia 39:17

What do you mean? They just leave them there. That's the whole elder care. Bye! Shady pines, mom. Shady pines. What elder care is like awful. They don't they don't have elder care because they don't live that long.

Jessica Mary 39:35

No, but there are lots of old people. Even in District 12, there's lots of old people, especially down at the Hob.

Julia 39:41

They say that.

Jessica Mary 39:42

How are they living this long? Is it now I am suspicious?

Julia 39:45

A 60-year-old is old. Witchcraft.

Jessica Mary 39:48

I know who sells the white liquor is over 60.

Julia 39:53

Okay, one. You got one.

Jessica Mary 39:57

But it is one. It is an example.

Julia 40:02

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 40:03

Exhibit only, Your Honor.

Julia 40:05

Yeah, I don't know.

Jessica Mary 40:06

Then there is. What have we left to talk about? We do see Rue. She is hanging above them as shown in the movie. And she's just like, hollow, I'm just up here.

Julia 40:20

I wish we would find out what Rue did to get such a high score. I don't know if we ever do with her as well.

Jessica Mary 40:28

So there were some things that I felt were really well done by the movie, and then some things that I felt were failings, which obviously I get to talk about when we watch the movie. Woo! But that's one of them, is that we easily could have seen what the other tributes did to get their scores. Yeah, that would have been. And we didn't. Um because they they did a lot of filling in and they used the Hunger Games footage as a way to do that, where they suddenly have Caesar cutting in and be like, oh, that's a tracker jacker, and that's what this is, and here's the history of it, and everything else. And they very easily could have done that with this is how PETA got his score, and this is how Rue got her score, and this is how Kato got his, and this is how everybody else got that.

Julia 41:06

At least just like PETA and Rue, because it's such like a weird A weirdly high score. Yeah, or just like a little bit of a montage for all of them, yeah.

Jessica Mary 41:16

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Julia 41:18

Mm-hmm. But no. I mean to keep some mystery. Yeah. There's only 300 pages.

Jessica Mary 41:29

I mean, how would it change if we did get to know though? Like if if they all had to watch the other tributes?

Julia 41:36

I just mean because like specifically the Rue score and the PETA score, just because they're like, that's so weird that that's high. Like, well then tell us why why was that weird? What significance is this?

K. Leigh 41:49

I don't know. I think it it matters because if this was our first reading and our first watch of the movie, we would speculate, oh, Vru's gonna do this, and Vroo's gonna survive because of this, and because of this score, and because of she did this.

Julia 42:03

Yeah.

K. Leigh 42:04

And then it hits that much harder when she doesn't survive.

Jessica Mary 42:08

I I think also in that same vein, because it is young adult literature, because it is, you know, still in the world of children's lit, a lot of readers go in being like, well, no one's going to die. And this came out in like what, 2010, 2011?

K. Leigh 42:25

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mary 42:26

Around the 2010s.

K. Leigh 42:27

Around the 10, yeah.

Jessica Mary 42:28

Which is still like not that long after the fourth Harry Potter book. And although we don't like to talk about JK Rowling because she's a big bitch. Exactly.

Julia 42:38

It came out way before that.

unknown 42:40

No.

Julia 42:40

2011.

Jessica Mary 42:41

It came out after the fourth Harry. Yeah.

Julia 42:43

No, the last Harry Potter movie.

Jessica Mary 42:45

No, not the last Harry Potter book. The fourth Harry Potter book.

Julia 42:48

Yeah, but I'm just saying the last Harry Potter movie came out in 2011.

Jessica Mary 42:52

That hurts. That hurts to me in my very old, old heart. But the book, the fourth Harry Potter book, is the first time somebody actually dies.

K. Leigh 43:00

Got it.

Julia 43:01

I'm listening now.

Jessica Mary 43:03

Yes. Uh, and it was it was big because prior to that the series had been firmly in children's lit. And then suddenly we moved into like teen literature at the time. And Hunger Games comes out, and it's there's there's nothing hiding that it's going to be violent. It's right there in the description. They're going to go into a game where they all have to kill each other. And people were like, no, because it's kid lit. There won't be nobody's gonna die. Everyone's gonna get rescued, because that's what we come to expect in that age of literature.

Julia 43:40

2008. That's when this book came out. That it seems like it should have come out so much later. Like I graduated high school in 2011. It was grade twelve. Oh so you know, I'm a baby. That hurts. That hurts. Yes, the thirty thirty-two-year-old baby right here.

K. Leigh 44:01

Jess and I discovered that our friendship is in middle school.

Jessica Mary 44:05

Our friendship's in middle school, yeah. That's so cute. Great. We're so old. But yes, and I I feel like plot armor is is such a huge thing to discuss in this because at every turn it's like, well, that person's gonna be fine. Oh, they're dead. Well, that person's gonna be fine. Oh, they're dead. And we get to play that game with like Pita as well in the first book, who obviously doesn't die. I I agree, the book's been out for almost 20 years now. Why are you just reading it for the first time? But when she finds him later and he's painted into the rock, which is just hilarious every time to me. She's like, oh my god, is he dead? Is he dying? Are we gonna watch somebody else die? Because all the other deaths, a lot of the deaths happen off-screen, or Cadness is like directly involved and watches them, like with the tra the careers and the tracker jackers, where she's like, I'm just gonna cut this down. Um and you'll all die by super venomous bees. Good night. Enjoy. Yeah, enjoy. Anyone afraid of bees? Well, you will be now. Here we go. Not for long, because you're all gonna die.

Julia 45:35

Oh man. Did you guys um I sent this to uh you, but the uh official first Hunger Games Ever would have happened in uh 2026 if the 75th would happen in uh what 2100?

Jessica Mary 45:53

So yeah, 2100.

Julia 45:54

Happy first Hunger Games, everyone!

Jessica Mary 45:57

Yeah, yay, thank you. I had to go looking stuff up because I was like, what year does the Hunger Games take place in? And the internet speculates in like 2300?

Julia 46:11

Oh, like way further, okay.

Jessica Mary 46:13

Yeah. But now I'm like constantly on the lookout for a year or anything that says the year, because the closest we've gotten is she mentions that District 12 is in Appalachian territory and that they used for hundreds of years they've mined coal there. And that's it. Yeah, the the internet speculates somewhere around the 2300s to 2400s. So thankfully, although ironically, the first uh Patriot games. Yup.

Julia 46:56

Have you ever seen that meme that was like a picturing of the districts and it like showed you like for example, it's like it shows you North America and it's like oh like this is actually how the districts would have been like set up, and then there's like this meme that just shows like a circle for the capital and a circle for every district after, and was like, Did anyone else picture it like this? And I was like, Yes, yes, that is exactly how I pictured it. Like my first read.

Jessica Mary 47:27

My canonical picture of it in my head for a while was similar to that, but like in the shape of the 13 colonies, even though it outright states that the capital is in the Rockies.

Julia 47:41

Oh no, for sure. Yeah, it's just like, oh, yeah. Oh, I found the meme. I don't know if you guys can see it, but it's like, this is how the districts are. Did anyone else picture it like this? And I was like, yes. Yes, I did. Like a little I pictured it too.

Jessica Mary 47:59

Little Pokemon route map where you go up to the left, that's the capital, and then you keep going, and that's district one.

Julia 48:06

I'm so glad everyone thought of it like that. I think it's partially because on the train, when they talk about going on the train, it seems like she's going through all of them. When in reality, obviously she wouldn't have, so no.

Jessica Mary 48:22

I know we've talked about it on a past book. I don't remember what book it was, but it was just how we get a picture in our head, and that's the picture. It doesn't matter what's written on the page.

Julia 48:34

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 48:34

They could they could be like, she has bright, beautiful red hair. We'd be like, purple hair. Got it.

Julia 48:40

She does.

Jessica Mary 48:43

No, she does not. It's it's up in a ponytail. Absolutely not. It's whatever hairstyle I am rocking at the time.

K. Leigh 48:50

Like oh yeah. Oh yeah. I did that with one book where uh the main character spoke Spanish, but I kept picturing them as Asian.

Jessica Mary 49:01

Yeah, obviously.

K. Leigh 49:04

And it didn't matter. I'm just like, she's not speaking in Spanish, she's speaking in an in an Asianic like language because that's how I picture her.

Jessica Mary 49:14

I've also done where like I don't speak that language, and so uh my head is like, you know what? It's French now. It's French now. I'm like, no, I don't think that that's true. My head's like, no, that's how you're gonna hear it. Anytime you see Spanish on the page, French accent forever. And in anything that's not written in French, German.

Julia 49:36

That's so funny. There's been a few times where I've read, like, yeah, male descriptions, and it's like he had a slicked back ponytail, and I'm like, absolutely not. There is no world where he did. He had blonde hair. Nope, sorry. Nope, nope, he did not have blonde hair. Not on my hand.

Jessica Mary 49:53

I hope I'm attracted to him, he didn't.

Julia 49:57

They look like this one male archetype, and that is it. Sorry to say. And if they don't look like that, that is your own fault. It's your own problem.

Jessica Mary 50:08

Yeah. Is awful.

K. Leigh 50:11

Going back to like picturing the map things too. Yeah. This is why I know everyone loves a map in a book. I skip it because I know that based on the description in the book, I'm gonna think of it a completely different way.

Julia 50:23

The only time I ever look at a map is like if they're talking about going somewhere and I really can't picture it, then I'll refer and I'll be like, okay, okay, there it is, right there. But like it has to. I only do that for like podcast recordings when I actually really care. Like if I'm just reading it for fun, I'm not fucking looking at that thing. I don't care.

Jessica Mary 50:44

Epic Fantasy, I think, needs a map, and only because most of the time in an epic fantasy, the adventure takes over like so many miles, and I really do need looking at it. I need a concept. I need to understand that Mordor is basically from the tip of Florida up to Alberta, right? Like I I need to understand that.

Julia 51:06

Not if I'm just having not if I'm just having vibes. Oh no, I gotta care less.

Jessica Mary 51:11

I gotta, I'm terrible about it.

K. Leigh 51:13

I'm bad at geography in real life. I I cannot do geography in a in multiple fantasy books, alright? I'm just gonna read it. I'm just gonna read it, and I'm gonna pretend I know what where we're going.

Jessica Mary 51:27

Note for final chapter games, Katie specifically will have to do fantasy geography tests, and we'll know where in Middle Earth is Carmen San Diego.

K. Leigh 51:38

Okay, Middle Earth I know.

Jessica Mary 51:40

Where in Panam is Carmen San Diego? Where in hell is Carmen San Diego? She is working on her dissertation.

K. Leigh 51:51

You could give me a blank map of the United States and ask me where like Indiana is, and I would not even know. Okay, I'm bad at geography. Nice.

Julia 52:02

See, for Canada, it's real easy. We have it's just one line. You just I know where Canada is. It's one line with three on top, and we're like, nailed it, guys.

Jessica Mary 52:17

Yeah, no. America's got a weird section of square states, and then one of them has like a little shelf because they didn't feel like measuring it correctly. It's why are we talking about this and not the Hunger Games? How did we get here?

Julia 52:32

Well, I was just where do you guys think in North America the 13th district is, unless you've seen it, because I would not have guessed this one spot. Where do you think it is?

Jessica Mary 52:45

It is the Northeast section. I I do believe it is like the New England section of our map.

K. Leigh 52:51

Well, isn't it Appalachia like Northman North? Appalachia Mountains cover all the time. Okay, well, you were right. It's yes, I know. Yeah, I know it's huge. Okay, well, you were right. So if it's Georgia, New York Oh.

Julia 53:09

She was right. I just didn't picture it over there, but Canada. Yeah, I was like, it's just because I have coal kind of near me, and so I was like, oh, I thought it was on the other side, but I don't know where the I guess no, I'm in the Rockies, so that makes more sense.

Jessica Mary 53:28

Listen, if Trump had his way, Canada would be the 13th district.

K. Leigh 53:33

And Greenland would've been too.

Jessica Mary 53:35

And on that note, on that note, is there anything anybody else wants to add?

Julia 53:42

I don't I don't really have anything else I'd like to say. Then I guess a simple I didn't really realize how like small of a role Effie had in the books. I feel like she has more of one in the movie.

Jessica Mary 53:56

Yeah.

Julia 53:57

And that's really it.

Jessica Mary 53:59

Mm-hmm. My other thing, and I when I read um Sunrise on the Reaping, I had this reaction too, where I didn't realize how long we spend out of the games.

K. Leigh 54:10

Yes. Yes.

Jessica Mary 54:12

I always remember these chapters going much faster and like being in the games by like the third chapter. But I am wrong because we are seven chapters in. You are. Oh, that was the other thing I was wrong about, where I very clearly remember uh somebody getting into an argument about giving Katniss a boob job, and that doesn't happen. And that was either a fever dream or an internet theory, and I don't know which one it was, but there was definitely a lot of looking at a naked Katniss in this section.

K. Leigh 54:48

I also want to bring up the fact that I'm right about the school. They go to school.

Jessica Mary 54:53

Yes.

K. Leigh 54:54

They go to school. It is a thing. She's not out of school, and Pita is a classmate.

Julia 55:02

I think there's something about the boob job in the movie.

unknown 55:07

Is there?

Jessica Mary 55:08

But we'll find that out when we get to the movie because we're watching that.

Julia 55:11

Because you saying that makes me be like, no, no. Is that the Mandela effect? Or how am I just thinking that because you I think I think that's in the movie. We'll have to find out.

Jessica Mary 55:21

We'll have to find out in four episodes. Because next week we're going up to chapter 14. And only chapter 14. Julia Julia.

Julia 55:31

I can't read anymore then. I when I get started in something, I just really. This is gonna be a this could be a test. A test of patience, and I'm excited for it.

Jessica Mary 55:46

On that note, thank you for your consideration. And we will see you next week with another seven chapters. Except for Julia, who now has to wait while we catch up to her.

Julia 55:56

I won't read ahead again. This was my first my first and last mistake.

Jessica Mary 56:04

Good night, guys. Good night, guys.

Outro 56:09

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