Subways, Magic Systems. They're Both Complicated: An Interview with Brittany Ranew

This week we're joined by Brittany Ranew, author of Lion of Fire, to talk about the nature of destiny, magical subway systems, and how enraged we all become when someone interrupts our writing time. 

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Booked All Night is produced by Rob Cook.

Edited by Jessica Mary and Rob Cook.

Hosted by Jessica Mary, K. Leigh, Julia Johnston, and Magdalyn Ann

Transcript

Booked All Night 0:02

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes we craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess.

Outro 0:08

I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot tapes.

Booked All Night 0:13

A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shame. Grab your blankets, booklets, it's time to get booked all night. I'm Jessica Mary, and today I am joined by Brittany Renew, author of Line of Fire, which is part of the Fire Propheci. Eh, I can talk, it's fine. The Fire Prophecies series. Now, before we get started, if you are watching us live today, make sure that you join the Pillow Fort, which is our free-to-join Discord server where you can add questions to this very interview. We only take questions from our Discord, so make sure to join today. And if you are listening after I have finished editing this episode, then make sure you join the Pillow Fort so you don't miss any opportunity to add your questions to our future episodes. And now please welcome Brittany Renew to the pod. Hello, welcome. Yay!

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Hi! Thank you for having me. I'm excited.

Booked All Night 1:03

Yes! So as we start all of our interviews, we like to jump off it right into games because games are fun, they get us laughing. And the first one is superlatives. And it's uh very much end-of-the-year book kind of thing. So just to kick us off, we're gonna do these. I'm gonna give you a prompt, you're gonna tell me which of your characters is least likely to, most likely to, etc.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Okay. Okay, okay.

Booked All Night 1:26

So the first one is most likely to ignore a text for three business days.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Oh, um. I think Okay. Yeah, okay. Most likely to ignore a text. I think I would I feel like I would pick my main character, Riley, for that one. Yeah.

Booked All Night 1:52

Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, most likely to open a new project instead of finishing the current one.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Hmm. Okay, I'm also answering Riley for that one. I'll probably all be other answers.

Booked All Night 2:08

Most likely to say just one more chapter at 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

That would be Madeline.

Booked All Night 2:16

Same. Big same, Madeline. I sit there and I struggle. I have uh sleepy time meds that I take at bedtime, and I'm like, I can do it. I can get through the next chapter, and I sit there fighting them up. I'm like, this defeats the purpose. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I know. I do the same thing.

Booked All Night 2:34

Uh least likely to keep their desk clean.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Uh Logan. That would be Logan for sure. He's so yeah, he's chaotic in in one word.

Booked All Night 2:48

We love him already. We declare that he is the new mascot. Anyone who is chaotic gets to be the mascot here at Booked All Night. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yep, I like it.

Booked All Night 2:56

And the final one is most likely to emotionally spiral over a fictional character.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I think I would pick Emma for that one. Probably because that's what I would do, and I put way too much of myself in her, so you're like, oh no, I know it's this one.

Booked All Night 3:14

This one right here. Yeah. So you you or your marketing team have described the fire prophecies as Percy Jackson meets Narnia, which I think is a really fun promise to readers because I love those things. So, what elements from those inspirations did you want to capture and where did you intentionally diverge?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, um, I think, well, first of all, like, so Percy Jackson's like my all-time favorite series. Rick Riot is my favorite author. Um, I say like that I wouldn't be a writer today if it weren't for for him. Um and I think kind of what I loved about what I loved about Percy Jack, well, lots of things, but some of the things that I loved about Percy Jackson that I kind of infuse those themes um into my series is kind of the idea of like discovering the hero within yourself and like the power, you know, the powers that you have. Um I think that's part of all the different characters of Percy Jackson, where you know, they have the, you know, it's demigod. So there's like a patron Roman or Greek god, and then that they have powers from, and then learning to access those like within themselves. And so kind of have a little bit of that in my series, uh, where there is a unique magic system that's based on magical gifts and patron wizards. So there's the gift of fire, obviously, and you have a patron fire wizard. So um I think that's something like a very key element there, and also like the New York connection, um, the the portal to Listoria, which is the magical realm uh that they all go to uh college in, and that's off of Central Park. So you have a New York connection there. Um, and then with it being a portal fantasy, um, there's tunnel system, and they portal all over like human realm and magical realm and on their adventure, and kind of naturally that portal portal element comes from Narnia for sure. Um, but also the like one of the things that I love about Narnia is just kind of like the overarching idea of like good versus evil um and choosing the light over the darkness. And so I definitely like infuse that into the series. Um, and you know, no spoilers. I mean, literally the title of the first book is Lion of Fire. So there may be an another important element there that you will you will find out as you read.

Booked All Night 5:42

So that portal system, is that as confusing as the New York subway?

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yes, actually no one's ever asked me that, but gosh, yeah, that's like that is perfect descriptor, yeah.

Booked All Night 5:54

Yeah, I I used to intern at McMillan up in New York, and uh really hard because I live in South Jersey, so I would take a three-hour bus ride all the way up. And the Macmillan at the time, I don't think they're there anymore. I think they might have moved offices, at least for some of the imprints, but they were at the Flatiron Building, and the bus stop home was at the convention center, the Javid Center, which, by the way, is 28 blocks away. And I know that because I got lost on the subway and then had to take an Uber over, took a later bus. It was like such a whole fiasco. And from then on, I was like, screw it, I'll just walk. And uh yeah. I lost a lot of weight because three times a week I walked 28 New York City blocks.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

That sounds painful.

Booked All Night 6:42

Yeah, it was rough. But I now know my way by heart from the flat iron building to the Javit Center. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

I mean, yeah, you could have used my uh portal system because there is an element to where you know the the portals will open up where you you know where you need them to be. So I could have given you a shortcut.

Booked All Night 7:03

That would have been nice instead of somehow winding up in Times Square. And I'm like, I don't think I got on that. I uh I was so upset. I was like, I just want to go home. It's been a long day. Like, yeah, but uh so Riley starts in a really relatable place. He's a college senior feeling like he might be a failure before his powers even manifest, and like whew, college seniors. I think everybody feels that failure oncoming feeling. But how important was it to ground this particular epic story in what is a very real, what am I doing with my life moment?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, well, it comes from a real place because that was how I was feeling when I started writing this series. Uh I had already graduated college. Um, you know, I was out of college for a few couple few years at that point, and I was still feeling very lost. And so it was definitely me kind of exploring, okay, what you know, you're supposed to be this like adult in the real world, and yet you feel lost. And what do you do with that? You know, and it's like you kind of feel like you haven't come into your own, you haven't figured out what your destiny is. And of course, in my story, you know, Riley gets some destiny thrust upon him, and he has to figure out how, like, you know, how to grapple with that, how to control it, how to, you know, really like at the heart of it, it's like how to become the hero of your own story. Like, how do you own your own destiny? And that is how that is like the journey that Riley goes on. And then with the second book, second book will be out later this year, you're gonna start to see that with Emma as well. Because you so the first book only has his point of view, Riley's point of view, and the second book has both of theirs. So it is definitely coming from a real place of me trying to figure out what I wanted to, what I wanted to do with myself. Um, yeah, I I went to school for music. I wanted to be a professional singer, and um, you know, beyond Broadway and kind of like all of those, all of those dreams, and yet I wasn't doing those after college. So it was just like I felt lost and I had to kind of, you know, learn who I was as a person. So I definitely wanted to infuse those themes into the series.

Booked All Night 9:16

I feel that me, me and my many art degrees feel that. Uh so almost everyone here at the podcast majored in writing, and we are all like, yeah. Whew, boy, do we feel that that big mood of I am not fulfilling up to what I thought that I would be. Oh, yes, and producer Rob majored in film.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Correct.

Booked All Night 9:37

Yep, yeah. Whole podcast covered in art degrees, and we're like, we're using them here at the podcast, and that's good enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yep, yeah. You find a way to dive back into your passion, that's all that matters.

Booked All Night 9:48

So I think there is something very chaotic and iconic about a magical crash landing into the girls' bathroom. Uh so what does that moment set up for the tone of the story?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, so I first of all I love humor, and so there's a lot of humor in in this series. Um, and that's actually another thing that I love about Percy Jackson. Um, it's like, you know, you're cutting, you're dealing with like really heavy stuff and dark prophecies and all of that, which is also, you know, I have prophecies in my series, and yeah, the humor can kind of cut cut in there, and it just you know, it just adds it adds fun to it, but it's also like just makes it feel more real and relatable, I think, too. Because we I think a lot of people use humor to kind of cut through tension and hard hard things, and so my characters definitely do that for sure. Um, so yeah, the the I I wanted a way for Riley and Emma to have a chance meeting, and and then I just heard Logan screaming at me that like he was gonna be the one to like totally screw things up and exactly how it happened.

Booked All Night 10:56

So you're like, all right, fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Agent of chaos. There we go.

Booked All Night 11:02

I I fully agree. I think it's better to break up those moments of like such darkness in a lot of the literature that we read with humor, because that's what most of us do, right? Like it's where our terrible, terrible coping mechanisms have all gone is this really sick sense of humor. But I I think that it's it's better to laugh about it than it is to to dwell in it and laugh laughing at the the terrible moment that you're in is kind of like a step toward healing about what you're going through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah, I definitely agree for sure.

Booked All Night 11:36

And my last question for this particular section, uh, the prophecy elements introduces this looming, almost inevitable darkness. How did you balance fate versus choice in Riley's journey?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Oh, that's a good question, yeah. Um, and I think that like you'll see the characters go more on that journey, even like even more so in the second book. Um yeah, I think it it does take it takes a lot to when you have I think just even in life, like we have things like thrust upon us, um, and maybe they're not as epic as saving the world, um, but you know, it happens, and I I think that it's not easy to start to make those decisions for yourself and kind of like learn to have autonomy in that. Yeah, it's not easy at all. Um, but I think you just kind of you you get to a point where you're like, okay, no more. Like you, you know, it's just you see the stakes very clearly and you start to understand what you want, and then you start to make those those different choices to get to get to what you want. So you'll definitely see the characters go on that journey for sure. I mean it's it's personal development, right? I mean, that's and that's I think that's why we I think that's why we read books, you know. We want to see ourselves in the characters and find those relatable journeys and development points, and you know, that's what I've tried to do with my characters.

Booked All Night 13:02

I love that. I also love the like the discussions on fate versus choice and how we all kind of get twisted back into it. Like I don't have a lot of favorite clo like uh from my English degree literature books. Uh but Oedipus is one of my favorites because like his choices are actively trying to avoid his fate, and it's what ultimately leads him into it. And I I love stuff like that where it's like you never really had a choice, or did you? Yeah. Like you could have just not killed anybody, and then you never would have killed your father, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, it's uh gosh, yeah. Cause I mean it does there's there is an element of like, you know, you get you just get put in these impossible situations, you know. We put these we put these characters in these impossible situations, and it's like you gotta figure it out, yeah. Yeah, that's how you grow as a person, right?

Booked All Night 14:00

It's true. Unfortunately, it's true, yes, yeah. Yeah that that brings us up to the very first game of the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Okay.

Booked All Night 14:12

Which is space 'em or embrace 'em. Now, the rules of space em or embrace 'em, super fun for me. Uh, you are flying through the cosmos with a cargo full of tropes and cliches, but suddenly you get sucked into a black hole. In order to escape, you need to dump some of that cargo. There are ten items, and you can only see two at a time due to a computer error. You don't have a lot of rounds to get rid of as much as you need to, and we will come back to the list at least once after you've tossed and saved a few things. Only I know the magic number that you need to get down to in order to escape. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Your first two choices are the chosen one and forbidden love.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

So I have to pick between which one to keep which one to get rid of.

Booked All Night 15:02

You can toss both or keep both, but you will come back to this choice at least once.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Okay, I feel like I have to keep both, because that's like such the main premise. Both are like the main premise of my series.

Booked All Night 15:15

You will find I'm very petty about these games. Okay, so your second choices are portal fantasy or fish out of water.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Oh, good grief.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Okay. Uh I'll I'll keep portal fantasy and get rid of fish out of water.

Booked All Night 15:33

Okay. Your next two are Morally Gray Mentor or Dark Prophecy.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

I'll keep Dark Prophecy.

Booked All Night 15:44

Slowburn or Toucher and Die.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Okay, you're doing it to me again. Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh. I'll keep Touch Her and Die.

Booked All Night 15:58

Okay. The next two are Secret Magical World and Accidental Destiny.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

I feel like I have to keep have to get rid of some things. I guess I'll get rid of both of those. Okay.

Booked All Night 16:12

We do one quick amount. Okay, and so this is your your second round. You get at least one extra round here.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Okay.

Booked All Night 16:23

To get down to the magic number. So we are back to chosen one or forbidden love.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Uh I will keep chosen one.

Booked All Night 16:36

Okay. Portal fantasy or morally gray mentor.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Portal- I'll keep portal fantasy.

Booked All Night 16:43

And you manage to escape the black hole. Very nice. You you get to keep chosen one, portal fantasy, and touch her and die.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Okay, okay. I can live with that.

Booked All Night 16:53

That's great. All excellent choices, I believe. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah. I don't think there was any wrong choices in any of that, but here we are.

Booked All Night 17:01

I love putting these lists together. This and uh what's another one we play? Never have I ever spoiled my own book, where uh I go through your Instagram and I'm not above putting things up there like never have I ever written a book called The Lion of Fire. I'm just pet I'm just petty about all of these games. It's a weekly highlight for me. It's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I think that's great.

Booked All Night 17:22

It's so fun. Take it to your friends, make them squirm too. It'll be fun. Okay. So, section two is all about writing craft and and reading habits. So, how do you manage tone? Uh, so like, you know, your elements of humor, romance, and dark prophecies to make all of that feel cohesive.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, that's a that's a good question. And I feel like I learned even more about that going through the editing process for the second book. Um it's I don't know, you just you start to really understand what your voice is, and you just kind of have to trust your instincts when it comes to that. Like if if you're going like going through and like editors suggesting um like a huge change in like dialogue, you know, or or cutting an entire chapter, you know, that type of stuff. And I think you just have to of course take that advice and think through it. And then at the end of the day, it has to be like that instinctual like, okay, this, if I cut this dialogue, or if I change this dialogue too much, it's then gonna lose my voice, which is blending the humor and the dark prophecies and all that together. And so I I think you just yeah, it's definitely just an element of trust. Um, and the more you write, the more you understand what your voice is. It just takes a lot of time writing. And I think sometimes when, like, you know, I've had, you know, of course, I have writers like ask me for advice, and I think it's like you want to sometimes people want it to be more complex than it is, and it's like you just have to write, you know, you just have to keep writing.

Booked All Night 19:06

I I love and hate that answer because it's true. Like at the end of the day, the answer is sit down and do it.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah.

Booked All Night 19:12

But like a lot of us have you know ADHD and depression and anxiety, and these things get in the way of writing because our brain is just like, no, I've decided to turn off right now, and you cannot access you have never heard words, you don't know what words are, you have never used a keyboard a day in your life, and you're just like, um, thank you. Uh this sucks.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, the imposter syndrome, man.

Booked All Night 19:35

Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, that that as well, or even I know one thing that I suffer from, and I talk about it constantly in interviews, I call it 20k limbo, where like I get up to 20,000 words, and then you have to start making these decisions, and I'm just like, but which decisions? And then I just sit there. And and no decisions get made whatsoever. So yeah, it it's it's rough. And I I think a lot of people I think there are some people that are blessed, truly, that they can just sit down and do it, and then there's like the rest of us that kind of have to make a schedule and get ourselves in the mood and have the right snacks and the right drinks and the right temperature of the room, and it just kind of like romance ourselves into getting the work done.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Oh, I like that. Romance yourself, yeah. Um yeah, I think I mean, I'm I'm very disciplined with my calendar. You know, I run a real estate business, so it's like for me, I have to be very structured. You know, I'm up early writing, and you know, I may like randomly take a whole day off just to write because it's like good to kind of get into that zone, but yeah, it really is like the discipline of just having your butt in the chair. And what I have found is that when I am feeling like kind of stuck on something, like, oh my god, this this scene is like not working. I just keep like you know, plodding through it, and somehow it's like 30 minutes go by and you go, Oh, oh, wait, that's it, that's it. Like something just unlocks and then you go. So, but you can't you don't get those moments if you don't like just keep at it.

Booked All Night 21:10

It's it's true. And the the zone, the zone is addictive. Like you get in there and suddenly it's like six hours later, and your husband's knocking on your door, like, hey, did you eat today? And you're like, uh maybe, I don't know, and you're like, it's just covered in like candy snacks all around your desk, and you're like, Yes, I have eaten today. Perhaps not the best choices, but food has entered my body.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah, that's there was many, many times um in the writing cave recently because I just turned in the second book like complete, like edits are done. It is 100%.

Booked All Night 21:45

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Thank you. Woo! Um, but my office has a window right in front of where my desk is, and so my uh my husband would, and it's to the backyard. So my husband would have the door shut here, of course. I'm in the cave, and then all of a sudden And I see this figure in front of me in front of the window. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Forget about me. I'm like, I'm in the zone.

Booked All Night 22:09

Don't interrupt me.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah.

Booked All Night 22:11

Yeah. It's oh, it's so rough. I've I've yelled at I feel bad. I've yelled at my husband before when he's coming and be like, Do you want dinner? Oh my god, you ruined it! Now I don't know where I'm going. It it's awful.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

It's yeah, I know.

Booked All Night 22:25

So other questions. I have them here, I swear. What does planning what what does your planning process look like for a series like the Fire Prophecies? Are you mapping things out early or kind of discovering threads as you go?

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Um a little bit of both. So I when I originally had the idea for the series, I actually had a dream about Riley and Emma. That was the that was like the magical moment that I was like, oh wait, there's something here. Uh, you know, it was like, what would be a a wizard who randomly meets a human and starts to fall for her and he's trying to bring her into her world when they are in two opposite worlds. How is that gonna work, you know?

Booked All Night 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Um, and so from there it was then just me brainstorming kind of what the overall storyline was gonna be. So I definitely had some major, like the major plot points, like all like outlined out, like with the three books, and kind of like I knew where I wanted the story to go, like how I wanted to end, like all the way at the end.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

And then from there, it's like I kind of create a skeletal outline of the book, and I let the characters speak to me and tell me how to get from like one point to another, because like there's a lot of like you know, gray areas in between from one kind of main plot point to the next in a in the book. So I am like letting the characters like show me the way. Um, it's it's honestly to me like that's where like real life magic is when the story is like writing itself because the characters are like yelling at you, you know. Yeah, and you get you know, when you do spend so much time with them, they you they really do like live in your head. So it's for me, it's like a combination of uh plotting and pantsing together, and it just it works, it creates magic, I think.

Booked All Night 24:17

I like that, yeah. So, how do you decide the rules and limitations of your magic system, uh, especially when Riley's powers are still emerging?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah, um, I think for me, trying to ground stuff in reality is important. And and like I, you know, mine's urban fantasy. It is set in in the modern world, with you know, of course, there's magical realms and all that too. So for me, it's like, okay, trying to ground things in reality um that helps me create rules that will be believable to readers. And I am I've always kind of loved the idea of like magic comes at a cost, like it can't just be like, you know, they just have endless abilities, and you know, even like even like Superman has kryptonite, you know, like there's gotta be some costs, some stakes here. So, you know, just you know, as they use their out as they use their powers, they get drained, you know, there's as they use the powers, they start to grow in their ability, like they get more confident, they unlock new things, you know. So it's that's kind of that was my take on it as you know, as these characters are really honing their abilities.

Booked All Night 25:31

I really love when magic has consequences because I I I love fantasy, but a lot of fantasy still has that, like, well, we can do it with magic, and there it's solved. And I'm like, but that's like so easy. Yeah. You know, like you don't I want to watch them struggle in which is a weird thing to say, but I want to watch them struggle and overcome things, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Yeah.

Booked All Night 25:52

One of one of my favorite scenes, uh, I think it was from Serpent and Dove, where uh the main character is a thief and she's breaking into a mansion. Uh, in order to break the lock, she just breaks her finger, and that's what breaks the lock. And I'm like, ouch! Yikes. But okay, like, consequences. I enjoy this, and like there's a there's a give and take, right? Then it's not about semantics. It's like I need to break a thing, and so here I have broken a thing, like I have paid that cost. I I love stuff like that. I I think that makes for stronger world building.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah, no, I definitely I definitely agree. And yeah, you gotta i it it helps you relate to the characters, I think, too.

Booked All Night 26:37

Yeah. Yeah. Like, how bad do you want that stuff inside the mansion? You gonna break your finger?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yep, exactly.

Booked All Night 26:47

Uh, so what kind of books are you reaching for lately, and do they influence the balance of romance versus fantasy in your own work?

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah, um I I've always loved fantasy, so I'm definitely reading the fantasy genre the most, and then we'll also read romantic too. So whether it's fantasy without romance or fantasy with it, you know, I love I love all that. So um I'm typically reading in in the genre quite a bit. Um and yeah, it's so funny because last year, yeah, at the beginning of 2025, I had a uh one of my best friends was like, you know, we keep hearing all this buzz about like the Sarah J. Moss universe. Like, would you want to like read her books with me and do a buddy read? And I was like, I was like, yeah, I've wanted to, but I've never like that's so daunting. So I just that's why that's a lot started. So so we fell down the rabbit hole of that last year. So we have now read Aquatar and Thread of Glass um in are gonna start Crescent City. So we'll be prepared for when Akatar comes out later this year.

Booked All Night 27:54

Oh my goodness. That is a lot.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, I've read lots of books of hers. Um, and I think I learned a lot with um writing action from from her writing, and I think also, you know, balancing romance as well. Um one thing I love about Thread of Glass is like kind of the epic nature of the fantasy and the world-building elements of that series with the romances blended in. And that was that was my original vision for my series, and so it was kind of cool to see that play out in another series. Like, oh okay, I'm not okay, I'm not crazy for tr wanting to like have the epicness of this fantasy and have the epic love story and like blending them together, like it does make sense, it can make sense. So I've definitely, yeah, I think as a writer, like you've got to read, like, read, read, read, read, read. It's gonna improve your writing. And of course, read outside of your genre for sure. And I do, um, but it's important to read in the genre that you write in because it is going to um, it's definitely gonna help your writing for sure.

Booked All Night 29:02

Yes, absolutely. And especially if you are writing in a certain age category. So, like if you want to keep your voice at the new adult level, you need to continue reading at the new adult level. Same thing with young adult middle grade picture books. Like, you need to absorb those things because I I know it's true for me, and I know it's true for a lot of writers, but like once you start reading outside of that, you'll watch it kind of adjust your voice, and you'll be like, Oh, nope, gotta go back to picture books and just kind of bring my voice back down.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah, that's a good point for sure.

Booked All Night 29:32

Yeah, and uh the same thing with with genre. You know, you're not only reading it because you want to see where the market is and where the market might be going, but also because you don't want to be doing all of these things in your books, you want your books to be standing out, and so you it's it's research on many different levels.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah, yeah, but I think that goes back to like what I said earlier about the intuition and in the gut instinct of like, you know, this is my voice, this is important to my characters in the story, so I'm gonna keep keep this instead of editing it out to or changing it to sound more mainstream, and you know, like this that's the kind of stuff that you just really start to hone in on and trust yourself with through the editing process. Yeah.

Booked All Night 30:19

Absolutely. And my final question for this section is when something isn't working in a draft, what is your go-to move to figure out the problem?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Hmm. I think my first instinct is to stop and think back what my character's like um, like what's the internal and external stakes and goals for my character that helps like ground it back into okay, what what are they really trying to accomplish? What's most important to them, and then like what's getting in the way of that, and that especially with dialogue, that will help like inform the dialogue. Like they would say this exactly because this is like where they're coming from. Um, but I think also sometimes taking a step back, like just taking a break, like maybe just go walk, you know, walk around the block, you know, go do something else in the house and coming back to it, that helps that helps too, just you know, kind of clearing your head.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Because then, you know, the they talk about like when you do monotonous tasks, like you're vacuuming or whatever doing the dishes, that's when you have like the best ideas because your brain is like free. Yeah. Um, so that's helpful. I mean, it happens a lot to me in the car. I drive a lot uh for work, so I get like the best ideas in the car. So I'm like voice noting myself. Like, don't forget this genius thing.

Booked All Night 31:47

Yeah. Thank goodness for voice notes, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah, right.

Booked All Night 31:50

When when I was working and I would go back and forth to work and I'd get stuck in traffic each way, like there's there's no good time around where I live to leave to be at work at nine o'clock in the morning because of all the schools that I live nearby. But I'd be like right in the middle of traffic, and I'd be like, I figured it out. I have nothing to write it down with. Yeah, it's it's it's rough being a writer when you are not around things to write with. Always keep your phone nearby, always keep a notebook. Best advice I can give anybody.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, I send a lot of cryptic emails to myself. Like, people will be like, what the hell does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Like, I know what it means.

Booked All Night 32:34

I wrote a note to myself a couple years ago that just said clockwork peacocks, and I was like, what does that mean? And I finally figured it out going through my Pinterest boards, and I was like, that's what I meant. Oh my god! And so I'm working on this piece again because I'm like, I finally know what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Yeah. Hooray! Genius.

Booked All Night 33:01

Perhaps Sleepy Jessica could leave a few more notes. That would be great. Not just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

It's when the magic happens.

Booked All Night 33:09

That's true. That brings us to game number two of our podcast.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Okay.

Booked All Night 33:18

So game number two is bring your own book. So the rules here that I have ten fill-in-the-blank statements. Like, if you have you ever played Cards Against Humanity? Yeah, for sure. Right. I'm going to give you the black cards. Your book is the white cards.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Okay.

Booked All Night 33:34

So you have your book, you're going to flip to a random page and use a word or a phrase from the first full paragraph to complete the sentence.

unknown 33:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

So, like mad lives. Yeah. Okay, alright.

Booked All Night 33:47

Only because we're on a podcast and we like to keep things moving. Uh otherwise, uh, you can actually play this at home if anybody wants to. It was a game in print, it's no longer in print, but you can go to bring your own book. Uh, I think it's.com or.org, and you can actually print the game out yourself and play it with your friends. It's really fun, I promise. Fun. So your first prompt is I knew then that blank would change everything.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Okay. So first the first paragraph, and then I pick some words to fill in the blank. Yes. Okay. Okay, sorry, give me the thing one more time.

Booked All Night 34:27

Okay. Your prompt is I knew then that blank would change everything.

unknown 34:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

I knew then that British literature would change everything. Which is uh the context is that Riley just failed a quiz because he fell asleep through in class.

Booked All Night 34:54

It's true on every account.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Yeah.

Booked All Night 34:56

I love it. Your next one is the last thing I expected was blank.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

The last thing I expected was a rotisserie-roasted wild pig.

Booked All Night 35:23

I can say I would not be expecting that, yes. Very true. If I had just walked away from blank, none of this would have happened.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

If I had just walked away from John Wallace, none of this would happen. Which that's a character in the book that you will find out. That's actually kind of ominous.

Booked All Night 35:54

Note to self, keep an eye out for John Wallace. They warned me about blank, but I didn't listen.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Um they warned me about the figure running towards him, but I didn't listen. Okay.

Booked All Night 36:20

In the end, it was always about blank.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

In the end, it was always about a fire wizard. Which is true.

Booked All Night 36:42

I should have realized the truth when blank.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I should have realized the truth when literal fire inside my bones trying to get out. That also feels ominous.

Booked All Night 37:01

Yeah, that feels real ominous. Everything fell apart the moment blank.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Let's see, everything fell apart the moment. Uh transportation magic with no limitations.

Booked All Night 37:27

Yeah, that seems real unsafe.

unknown 37:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

I never meant to fall for. Oh wait, hold on. I never meant to fall for respectable college student. Which I think is like none describes none of the characters in my one thing I couldn't control was blank. The one thing I couldn't control was kids unattended.

Booked All Night 38:24

Yes. Perfect, perfect. And the last one is, and somehow, despite everything, blank still mattered.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And somehow, despite everything, tunnel system still mattered. Which is also very ominous. I keep finding ominous things.

Booked All Night 39:00

If you've ever been at a sleepover and you've had sleepy haha's, or if you've ever been high and just spouted out weird questions, that's what this last section is. Okay. So if your book were a pastry, what would its flavor profile be?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Oh. Um. Oh gosh. If it was a pastry, it would be a raspberry tart? I don't know. It's like the tart tart and sweet blending, you know. Yeah.

Booked All Night 39:37

What's the worst possible place Riley could accidentally portal into besides the girls' bathroom?

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Ah the Brotherhood's lair. Dun dun dun.

Booked All Night 39:54

If Emma had to survive a reality TV show, which one is she winning?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Oh, she's winning anything related to like a music competition. American Idol. She's winning American Idol. Yeah.

unknown 40:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

That's easy.

Booked All Night 40:11

Which character is absolutely banned from having a group chat and why?

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I think I have to pick Logan because we've already established he's the chaos. He's so he's just unhinged and it only gets worse in the second book. Sorry.

Booked All Night 40:28

I imagine him to be the weirdo with questions at three o'clock in the morning, just blowing up my phone, and we'll be like, oh my god, shut up. And Paul think it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah, exactly.

Booked All Night 40:37

If your magic system had a side effect that was completely ridiculous but unavoidable, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Um oh gosh. Completely ridiculous unavoidable. I feel like I mean, well, this is probably too realistic, but I would say like every time they go through a portal that they they throw up uncontrollably afterwards. Yeah. The yeah, the it's like teleportation sickness, basically.

Booked All Night 41:13

Yeah, I've definitely been on some forms of travel that that makes perfect sense for.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Yeah.

Booked All Night 41:19

I uh when I was when I was a child, uh, there was a book, and it was published in the 80s called Half Magic, and uh the a group of orphaned kids find half of a magic coin and it only grants half of their wish. And like they discover that when they're like, Oh, I wish we were where mom was, and they only get halfway there. And then they're like, Oh, I guess we could wish for like a bowl of popcorn, and it's just half a bowl of popcorn, and so it's just like funny little things like that. I I love the ridiculous thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

I've heard of that. I probably mean I probably read it, I would think, but yeah, I've heard of it for sure.

Booked All Night 41:55

What would Riley send to the group chat at 2 a.m.?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Uh hey guys, I accidentally burned down our dining room table.

Booked All Night 42:09

Ignore the smoky smell. It's fine, I've got it.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah, he don't he, you know, he got bad. Logan beat him at a game of cards against humanity, so there you go. The dining table's torched. Whoops.

Booked All Night 42:24

You have to swap your main characters into a completely different genre. What genre are you choosing and how badly does it go?

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Oh, okay. Um I feel like the I feel like I would pick like thriller, you know, like psychological thriller, and partly because like they do kind of have to become like detec do detective work to figure out what's going on and who's behind the, you know, who's behind the evil that's lurking. And but they're also just total screw-ups, so I think it just it'll just go poorly.

Booked All Night 43:06

Yeah. What is the most chaotic hear me out you could pitch about one of your characters?

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Um yeah, I think I'm gonna pick Logan again. It's like, hear me out. He's uh you're gonna be annoyed with how unhinged he gets and how hotheaded he is, but at the end of the day, he's your ride or die. Like you're you know, he's a Warcraft wizard, you're not gonna survive without him.

Booked All Night 43:37

That's fair. That's very fair. And the last one, if your villain had to take a customer service job for a week, how long could they last?

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Not not long at all. The patients would run out immediately, and yeah, I mean, especially when you have like dark, dark magic at your disposal, it's not going to go well.

Booked All Night 44:04

No. I I can think of the many customer service jobs that I've had in the past, and if I were to be like, snap, you're on fire. Yeah, I don't I don't think that would be uh beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Yeah.

Booked All Night 44:20

So finally, we ask this of all of our guests. Is there anyone that you would like to thank from agents to editors, writing partners to friends who had to listen about your book a million times?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Uh yeah, there's lots of people. We could just spin like a whole entire podcast of that. Um I mean uh the my book is dedicated to my husband, so like he's a very clear choice of you know, he's supported me from day one, and you know, he's heard me yap about the book and you know, dealt with me being in the writing cave and doing uh all these events and all the things. So yeah, like huge shout out to my husband. I mean, all my family and friends have been incredibly supportive. Um, that list is super duper duper long. Um, and I think like I would specifically say, um, you know, my publisher Indigo Indigo River, uh, you know, the series got acquired um and they relaunched the first book and and they're putting out the second book. And so like they have really come alongside me and and pushed me um and made the second book like even better than I thought it could be. So like their editorial team, like huge shout out to them for sure. Um it's been such a it's been an amazing process, and I'm just I'm super proud for how I've grown it as a writer and and how great the next book is, and I can't wait to get it out there. That's lovely. Yeah.

Outro 45:40

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