I am an Artiste With Fondant: The Hunger Games, Chapters 8-14

The Games have begun in our reread of Suzanne Collins's The Hunger Games, and we're still absolutely stuck on Peeta's amazing cake decorating skills. As they make their way through the second third of the book, Jess and Julia discuss the potential for less than savory motives among the folks in the Games' support staff, whether or not the first half of the book would be better told through flashbacks, the importance of demonstrating realistic responses through a character's emotional journey, which old Games site they'd want to recreationally camp at (hint: not one with screaming monkeys), and much, much more. 

Transcript

Intro 0:04

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes we craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess. I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes. A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shade. Grab your blankets, booklets. It's time to get booked all night.

Jessica Mary 0:24

Welcome to Booked All Night. I'm Jess.

Julia 0:29

I'm Julia. Normally I go after Katie. Good morning.

Jessica Mary 0:35

Yes, keep it for the lols. Keep it. Tonight we are diving further into the Hunger Games, specifically chapters 8 through 14. As always, if you haven't read the Hunger Games up to at least chapter 14, then hit pause, get caught up, and come right back. We'll be right here. This series reread will lead us all the way up to the release of the new movie Sunrise on the Reaping in November. So if you want to read along with us, just visit bookedallnight.co, that's bookedallnight.co, to see the reading and interview schedules. Join the Discord to tell us how wrong you think we are, and send us fan mail with the link in every description. Now, I think you've had plenty of time to hit pause to avoid spoilers, so in this section, we got rated for throwing flower and for shooting an arrow at the game makers. We began comparing PETA and Gail, we trained separately, there were more naked bodies, we got our interviews in, we have our love confessed on live TV, we have a heart to heart on the rooftop that we can't throw ourselves off of. Get into the arena, a bloodbath happens, 13 tributes are left. Feelings, hunting, betrayal, fire, sass hallucinations, and murder. That was good. Yeah, did I leave anything out? I think I did a pretty good job.

Julia 1:52

I think you did a really good job. Hamid was less drunk.

Jessica Mary 1:55

Yes. He was mildly less drunk. He only had like three-quarters of a bottle as opposed to the whole thing.

Julia 2:08

Yeah, I was proud of him.

Jessica Mary 2:10

Oh, poor Hamet.

Julia 2:12

Oh, drama.

Jessica Mary 2:14

So before getting into admitting that uh Cadnus, you know, the the dinner scene. She's like, well, I shot at the game makers. Pita says that the game makers were drunk when he got there, and all he did was throw some flower sacks around. Like he threw some weights around. Do we believe that's all he did?

Julia 2:34

Um not really, to be honest with you. Yeah. Like he I feel like it got too high of a score to just like throw heavy things around. In the movie, though, doesn't he demonstrate his camouflage? Is am I out to lunch with that? I don't remember.

Jessica Mary 2:53

And we're coming up on watching that movie, so we'll at least find out. So we should have producer Rob make a note somewhere to keep an eye out for that. Because I remember I remember in the movie that he does on his hand, but that's like during training.

Julia 3:09

Oh right.

Jessica Mary 3:10

And yeah. And he's just like, I make the cakes, but bitch, you do not make cakes that look exactly like bark. That is a what? No. Fuck you.

Julia 3:20

I'm an artiste with fondant. I don't know. What do you think?

Jessica Mary 3:25

I same. I I don't think that he could have just thrown some stuff around.

Julia 3:31

Like what did he score? Like a eight? Seven, eight?

Jessica Mary 3:36

He was an eight, yeah.

Julia 3:37

Yeah, okay.

Jessica Mary 3:38

And so like it's not a low score, it's not a high score, but like Rue got a seven, so it's like, okay, so you're Rue was ranked the same as a 16-year-old who is supposed to have this like really stocky build.

Julia 3:54

Yeah, you can really tell in the shirt.

Jessica Mary 3:58

Yeah, it's this lovely picture.

Julia 4:00

Yeah, but then I guess at the end of this little read, Katniss is like, oh, she must have like jumped around without touching the floor or whatever for Rue to get her high score.

Jessica Mary 4:12

Yeah. I think Rue's is definitely for like survival skills, but Yeah.

Julia 4:17

It's a little fishy.

Jessica Mary 4:19

It is. It is a little fishy because all that got demonstrated from PETA was like, I paint the cakes, and also I lift heavy bags of flour, and it's like, okay.

Julia 4:27

I wonder if his like social game was taken into account. I guess no, he hasn't uh professed his love to her yet at this point.

Jessica Mary 4:38

No, no, and I can't wait to talk about the oh so appropriate reaction to that. What do you mean? She shoves him into an urn of flowers that shatters and he falls into it and gets a bunch of cuts all over his hand, and she's like, fuck you.

Julia 4:56

Seems super real.

Jessica Mary 4:59

Yes. Realistic.

Julia 5:01

What a realistic response.

Jessica Mary 5:02

I know that when my husband professed his love to me, that's exactly what I did, was pushed him into something.

Julia 5:09

And we're the same! Right? I knew it. I knew I wasn't the only one.

Jessica Mary 5:17

So we get out of there, we're sitting at the table, and they're going around, they're like, okay, well, what did you do to appease the game makers? And PETA, of course, is like, uh, they were drunk, I just threw some shit around and they gave they did whatever they did. And Katniss is just like takes a little sip of coffee, and she just like, I shot an arrow at them, and everybody stops. That's the line. And it's like, and you, sweetheart, I shot an arrow at the game makers. Everyone stops eating, and Effie's just like, you what?

Julia 5:46

Yeah. But I do like Pita's response to that. That's like, well, they're gonna kill us anyway.

Jessica Mary 5:51

Yeah. Like, whatever. Well. There's also a line here that did you read Sunrise on the Reaping yet? No. Okay, so I have my note here to talk about that later then, because I don't want to like.

Julia 6:07

No spoilies.

Jessica Mary 6:08

Yeah, no spoilers. I'm doing my best. So they have this whole part. I it's hilarious in the movie, it's hilarious in the book to me that the nihilism at the table just completely takes over, right? She's like, well, they're gonna kill us anyway. And he's like, well, she's like, oh, do you think that they'll come after me? He's like, nah, it'll be a pain to replace you. Like, there's so much work to do now in order to do anything worthwhile to you. So from then on, after they get the stores, right, because later that evening is when it's like, okay, Rue's got a seven, Pete has got an eight, Katniss has an 11, which immediately makes her like top target to kill and get out. And they go to the interviews, and the line is the girl tribute from District 1 looking provocative in a see-through gold gown. So I have to wonder, because this is not the only time that like bodies have been on display of the children. Um and later she it's around here somewhere, but she's talking about getting dressed and how the fabric feels on her naked body. And my question is, does the Capitol just not believe in underwear? Because almost every time she's getting dressed, she's completely naked. When they're talking about like dresses of other tributes, you can usually see like more than you should on children, with the exception of Rue. Rue comes out dressed like a little fairy. It's adorable.

Julia 7:42

I would almost compare it to like obviously it's like a comparison to like Hollywood, and like you can see, for example, I just saw a picture literally on the internet the other day, and it was like Johnny Depp next to uh Wyona Ryder.

Jessica Mary 7:59

Winona.

Julia 8:00

And then it showed them Winona, sorry, and then it showed them like aged, like now, and it was like, look how well Winona has aged. And it was like, well, she was a teen in that picture with a grown-ass man. Yeah. So yes, Johnny Depp does look 20 years older because he was also 20 years older there. Yeah. And she looks like like obviously 90s, they're wearing a little bit more than we're wearing now, but like even then, you're like Oh, the 90s. It's like just sexualizing everything really early, and especially with a district one where they're career districts, like they kind of almost have a in on the prostitution ring in the capital. So it's kind of like, look, we give you a good one. Yes.

Jessica Mary 8:51

My other thing here, because like obviously almost all of the tributes are sexualized immediately. And then you have Rue, who is dressed like a fairy, who is presented with this true kind of innocence. Yeah. And I think that's so nefarious seeing how the other tributes were presented and knowing what happens to victors later on.

Julia 9:18

Um, yeah, I mean, that's gross to think about. Didn't consider that angle.

Jessica Mary 9:23

You're welcome.

Julia 9:23

Do you think that, like, I mean, if we're doing like a meta thing right now, like, do you think that the capital stylist or whatever would even have thought that way, or would it have just been like artistic choice because she was so cute, and they all seem very naive? Like how Katniss talks about her little three people running around her being being stupid. So is it like, oh my god, you're so cute, duh, and they don't actually know what's going on.

Jessica Mary 9:51

I would love to believe that angle. I'm gonna choose to believe that. Yeah, that is what I am choosing to believe now because like that's absolutely plausible.

Julia 10:01

I can't see that sort of thing getting written in this book.

Jessica Mary 10:07

That's fair.

Julia 10:08

Like, that just seems like too far. I don't know.

Jessica Mary 10:12

I wanna say it's too far, but um, I also live in America, and we literally had to fight for a couple of years to have the Epstein list released, so I I also have Instagram. Yeah, like I also that's another thing, is I also have Instagram, and there are some kids that just post pictures of themselves, and they're in little bathing suits and little two-pieces, and it's like, hey, I get I guess I just mean like, do you think Susan Collins would have written that into a book for kids?

Julia 10:50

Like, I do you think or do you think that's like too meta for kids to even realize, and we're only realizing it now because we're adults reading it. I think But I was also like a child reading.

Jessica Mary 11:01

Okay, so I was not a child when I first read this. I it came out in like what was it, 2008, 2009, something like that?

Julia 11:10

Yeah, so I would have well, I guess not a child, but I was in junior high when this year.

Jessica Mary 11:14

Yeah, I was in college. So so I think I think there is a message there because I don't think Suzanne Collins puts anything into the books without calling to something. I I think there is always a discussion point. I want to believe canonically that it is just her stylists being, you're such a cute little baby, and let's make you look like a cute little baby to get sponsors, but also we know from later books and other things that there are monsters in the Capitol. And so this other read-through is also plausible, unfortunately.

Julia 11:55

That's true. I mean, just the fact that they have 12-year-olds in the competition still, knowing that this is what happens, and not like oh, I mean, oh, I'm gonna hate what I say right now, but like it's one thing to have okay, 15 and older, okay, even that obviously, but like there's they're still having 12 year olds in there. So I hate to admit, but you're probably a little closer to your truth than it is to mine. But I am going to choose to live in ignorant bliss over here. Yeah, I was in uh junior high when it came out because I graduated in 2011. So yeah, grade.

Jessica Mary 12:37

Yeah, I was in college when that came out then. Ugh. So after we go through and we're watching some of the interviews, and Katniss goes through hers, and she has these comments about Caesar. I'll say this for Caesar. He really does his best to make the tribute shine, and it kind of shows Katniss's ignorance here a little bit, because I will say she's pretty educated about what is going on. She's very knowledgeable that she's being used, this is a piece of shit ploy for attention and clout and everything, but she doesn't think that of Caesar. She doesn't see herself as content for him. And the reason that he would be so welcoming and so friendly is because if he doesn't make you look good, that also doesn't make him look good.

Julia 13:30

What do you mean? Expand.

Jessica Mary 13:32

Okay, so Caesar is part of the machine of the games, and he's not on the side of the tributes, but But Katniss like almost excuses him?

Julia 13:46

Yes. Okay, yeah, I'm on the same page as you now. Where are you going with this? Um, yeah, I also found that weird that she like almost dismisses how charming he is, yeah, and is not ever suspicious of it. She's like, well, he's also trapped or something. Yeah. She always like feels bad for him, and honestly, like kind of with no reason to. Like, does she ever interact with him, just the two of them? No.

Jessica Mary 14:19

It just in the interview. Like, there's yeah, there's no side. I can't think of a scene where she does that in the other books either, that there's like an aside she has with just Caesar or anything like that, or if there's any part where they're trying to pick up topics, you know, and be like, okay, Caesar's definitely going to ask you about this because we told him about it, or some such nonsense.

Julia 14:44

Mm-hmm. I guess we'll get to the other books, but yeah, I can't think of one either. I just remember, I guess, in the third one, that she does note that like Caesar looks more disheveled.

Jessica Mary 14:54

Yeah. I just remember that.

Julia 14:55

So it's like, oh, poor guy, he looks so much he looks a little sad.

Jessica Mary 15:01

Poor, poor Fox Newscaster.

Julia 15:03

The the hair and makeup team was just off that day.

Jessica Mary 15:06

Yeah.

Julia 15:07

Anyway, that's interesting. Yeah, because I guess he's so charming. I mean, that kind of goes to show like you can put lipstick on a pig. Yep. Isn't that the is that the quote?

Jessica Mary 15:16

Yeah.

Julia 15:17

I mean, every time she does actually meet someone from the Capitol and talks to them, she does end up liking them. There is also that.

Jessica Mary 15:24

She does. And I think it's because she she's realizing that some people in the Capitol are trapped as well, right? Like, take, you know, German soldiers and Nazis, right? There were people that wanted to speak up but couldn't speak up. And like there are people that are in powerful lifestyles without any political power, and those things are wildly different. But then, then Pita confesses his love for her on live TV. Oh, we're not gonna talk about the dress. Oh, yeah, no, the beautiful dress. The dress that is not on fire, it's like covered in jail.

Julia 15:59

It's it smolders in this like lava and not or like embers and not lights on fire. Yeah. And she giggles. It's actually way cooler. Yes. And she giggles. Yeah. Anyway, so then PETA goes up and does the most magnificent political display that I have ever seen. I mean, obviously, but like it's so good. And I'm like, you sir, smart beyond his years, that one.

Jessica Mary 16:27

Yes. I think PETA definitely, definitely knows how to play the game. I think that's very, very obvious from the moment he steps foot on the train and he immediately starts talking to everybody. Like he is charming in his own way. He can talk to everyone. He's personable, where Katniss is like, as proven by shoving him into an urn of flowers seconds after he's like, I can't go back to the girl that I have a big crush on because I have to kill her in the arena. Yeah. And then she's like, You son of a bitch! Like and just throws him in the air. Hamich is telling her, he just made you desirable. She's like, No, he made me look weak. Yeah. And then she sits there and wonders like, did he make me look desirable? Does this help me? Is he doing it to help me? Why would he do that to help me? And it it becomes this spiral.

Julia 17:30

She wants so bad to trust that people are on her side that she forces herself to not trust that anyone's on her side.

Jessica Mary 17:38

I mean, in her experience, most people have not been on her side.

Julia 17:42

100%. So she has that healthy sense of skepticism. So when it is continue to be presented in front of her, it's not loud enough for her to like latch onto. So that's why. For me, her strong reaction kind of made sense. Was it ridiculous? Yes. But like, if I was in her position, what the fuck, dude?

Jessica Mary 18:04

Yeah. I think the words make sense. Right? Like, why would you confess that at all? Because one, it's gonna make it much harder to kill you, now that I know.

Julia 18:15

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 18:16

And it's already, already going to be a problem because I've never killed a person before.

Julia 18:21

Well, that and like, I don't know, if at the end it was just the two of them and they didn't do the berries, like, how bad would it have made him look if he killed her? Yep. But he just fully is like, I'm just sacrificing myself so District 12 can get a winner. Because I think part of his motivation is like he knows that if she wins, his family is gonna get food. Yes.

Jessica Mary 18:46

And that is something that comes up frequently is that it's like, if it's not me who wins, I went it to be XYZ who wins.

Julia 18:54

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 18:55

And Katna specifically says, if I don't win, I hope Rue wins.

Speaker 3 18:59

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 18:59

Right? Because she's so small.

Julia 19:01

And what I was kind of thinking about was where did PETA learn these sort of social manipulations or social tacks, I guess? Because his dad doesn't seem very tactical. His dad just seems kind. You never know, right? Like, but his mom seems like a nightmare human. So, like, I wish there was some sort of like backstory there where PETA was able to develop these social skills or notice these social cues earlier on.

Jessica Mary 19:36

If PETA's mother is as much of a nightmare as she is painted to be, it is possible that he has learned this manipulation because it gets him out of further abuse. Yeah.

Julia 19:50

Oh, like a trauma response. That's fair. Yeah, there you go, right there. And maybe watching his dad do it too. His dad do it with his mom.

Jessica Mary 20:00

I wanna say he would know it because of upselling things at the bakery, but he lives in the poorest district. What is what does upselling look like when you know people don't have two pennies to run together?

Julia 20:12

Well, yeah.

Jessica Mary 20:13

Those fondant decorating skills.

Julia 20:16

Whenever they talked about, like, oh, I see those beautiful cakes and blah blah blah. I'm like, who's buying those? Isn't everyone poor? The only person that has money is the fucking mayor.

Jessica Mary 20:28

Yeah, and like that's that's something that gets painted along the district, is that there is the town and the seam, and like even the town is not middle class, the town is still poor. They're just less poor than the seam.

Julia 20:45

Yeah. And it so I always thought that was funny. I was like, how many cakes are you really making? Okay, it's not 12 a day. So why are these not made to order, to be honest with you? Right?

Jessica Mary 20:59

Why why is not all of the things at the bakery made to order? It just seems also that weird, uh, especially when you live next to such abject poverty that you could have the possibility of wasting anything.

Julia 21:14

It's true. It seems a little unreasonable. Yeah. That that would be the business model. And then for like the mom to even get mad that people are digging through her trash, like burned bread and that bothers you. Yeah, I but yes, her reaction to like pushing him over. Hilarious. I feel bad for PETA. Yeah, I felt even worse when it it shows like how his hands were all cut up or something, and she's like, I might have just killed him, I might have just cost him the games. Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:51

I was like, Yeah, oh, I don't remember that from the movie.

Jessica Mary 21:55

As we learn later, the Capitol just has miracle goop, and you just Put it on and you're must be nice. Yeah. I want Miracle Goop.

Julia 22:05

Instantly healed.

Jessica Mary 22:08

Yeah. Then it's time to get into the games, and we we learn a little bit about the arenas and that they're they're preserved, they become vacation sites.

Julia 22:19

That was weird. The historical um reenactments. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 22:25

Like there's so much weird about this. My question here is like, where are all of these arenas? Because this is the 74th Games, and the arenas are enormous. Uh and now we know some things about the first 10 uh that I can't talk about because those come up in other books. But the games are presumably in large Olympic campus-sized spaces. So are they near the districts? And yes, as producer Rob pointed out, that's also in my notes. They remind me of abandoned Olympic sites. And what made me sad when I came to that like conclusion with them is that they are taken care of better than the abandoned Olympic sites. So that made me feel terrible.

Julia 23:19

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because this is such like a dystopian world, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of population in the sense of like all the it just seems like there's like one town in every district. You know what I mean? So it's like there's you know, that's also like a weird concept that there's not like more than one town in district 12, they just went to the one town in District 12 and got the two kids out of it. So it's like if it's this huge swath of like the East Coast, and it's just one fucking town that they're picking from.

Jessica Mary 23:59

You know, I could see that in the more central districts. Like if you've ever seen a population, like a heat map population of like Nevada, you know, it's like here's a little dot, and here's a little dot, and here's a little dot versus New Jersey, which is the dot, right? Like the most densely populated state. That could just be possible that, you know, in addition to it being a dystopia, there's just not enough people to interrupt what we have going on. And also, we kill about 24 kids a year. So population control.

Julia 24:37

But also, like, it doesn't seem like the rest of the districts are vacationing. It's just the capital that's vacationing. So would you even run into these sites? Well, it could be like a couple, I was gonna say kilometers, a couple of miles away, and you would never know.

Jessica Mary 24:57

Use my freedom units, damn it. But I wonder how many other districts have shoddy fence work, like District 12 does. Like if there were an arena near District 12, would Katniss have been able to walk to it?

Julia 25:12

Well, yeah, it depends on how far she's walking in one day, knowing she has to get home that night. You only have one day to go out and come back, and you're on foot in a windy wood.

Jessica Mary 25:24

But then it makes sense that they would have to be somewhere near other civilizations, unless the entirety of the capital is just like flying out to nowhere. I am aware that space is big, producer Rob. But part of the map is that space has been reduced, that it's not directly America, that the tides have rolled in and smooshed it, and so space is not quite there.

Julia 25:56

I don't know. I think that it's possible. I mean, like Alberta, where I live, is pretty bare as well. So, and we're flat, so you can see for a while. And like, I don't know, I think that if there was an arena a couple ten miles away, I don't think you'd see it. Wow. Like, if if we're talking about towns, not multiple cities where people are traveling around. That's the only reason why I think it's like plausible.

Jessica Mary 26:34

I think it's probably because I live in such a densely packed area of a densely packed state, and like That's fair. You can't go three steps without getting to my neighbor's door, you know. That I can't fathom that there is space anywhere that something could fit and you wouldn't know that something has been built there or see it or hear it, or like that's fair.

Julia 27:02

Like we are packed in. I have a friend who that's fair. I have a friend who has a farm and her farmhouse. I think it's only like it's gotta be just five miles from like in every like you have to drive a while to get to it, and you can stand in her farmhouse and do a 360 and look all the way around and not see another double.

Jessica Mary 27:20

Yeah, no, that creeps me out.

Julia 27:24

It's I also don't like being there. But I'm like, if I died, no one would find me.

Jessica Mary 27:31

What do you mean I can see the stars first? The light pollution, absolutely not.

Julia 27:34

Oh, also that. But um, I don't know. I don't think you would really have to go that far to hide it. Also, like with their little spaceships and stuff like that that are apparently hideable. Yeah. I still think it's weird that people go vacation there.

Jessica Mary 27:54

And like, I have always thought that military reenactments were weird. Yeah, they are. But like Hunger Games reenactments, that's definitely weird.

Julia 28:05

Yeah, literally, like, let's just watch these two children beat each other together. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 28:11

What when they say reenactments, like, are they going all the way or are they like fake blooding it?

Julia 28:18

Like Well, they they gotta be fake blooding it because these are capital actors.

Jessica Mary 28:22

Oh, that's true, that's true, it's true.

Julia 28:24

Unless they're pulling in actors from District One and Three or whatever.

Jessica Mary 28:29

They might be. We don't know.

Julia 28:31

They might be. But um Okay.

Speaker 3 28:35

If you were to vacation at one, if you had to choose, okay. Which one would it be?

Jessica Mary 28:46

Um, hands down, it would not be the clock and it would not be Hamich's games.

Julia 28:53

I need to pull up a list or something because I what I don't remember. New window.

Jessica Mary 29:00

Based on the look on producer Rob's face, I'm guessing the correct answer would be I would not vacation in the Hunger Games arenas.

Speaker 1 29:09

Where are you going hiking today? With the screaming monkeys that look like my loved ones. That sound like your loved ones.

Jessica Mary 29:17

Oh, that sound like your ones. Yeah. No, no, that was the birds, right? The birds sounded like our Eh, we'll get there eventually and I'll be corrected. Yeah, this next book, whatever. Alright, so I have a storytelling debate question, kind of writing craft idea here. And my question is, could the story have started right in the arena as the canon goes off and been filled in with flashbacks?

Julia 29:49

No. Because of Prim, because you have to know why Katniss is there long before you show Katniss in the arena. Because if you were to just show her in the arena, she looks too strong, she looks too prepared. She almost would come across as a career, only seeing her right out of the gate in the arena. Yeah. And then, of course, the stuff with Brim and the stuff with Rue. And I don't think Katniss comes out as much of a likable character either.

Jessica Mary 30:23

Hmm. I'm nodding my head on a podcast.

Julia 30:27

It's good. It's good. On this audio media. Nod, nod, yes, nod. Just nod, nodding.

Jessica Mary 30:34

I always like to wonder about this because the scene itself really draws you in. There's so much action happening. There's so much tension immediately when we come up out of the tubes. And she's like looking around, she's like, where can I see water? Where can I go running? Oh my god, there's a bow and arrow in the cornucobia. And PETA is like, hey, maybe don't go for that just yet. And she's like, hey, fuck you. I'm running directly in there because you told me not to.

Julia 31:02

Even though everyone told her not to.

Jessica Mary 31:04

Even though everyone told her not to. So my like my question here is like, this is such a big scene, such a action-packed scene, such a scene that my attention. Yeah. Would it have worked? And I think you're right that if it had been here, we would feel drastically different about Katniss. And we might not have liked her enough to finish the story. And we would have been like, at what point, if you rearrange this, would be a good place to introduce Prim and to tell us about the sister, in which case Yeah, would it almost turn out as like a um well she cared about Rue this whole time because of Prim?

Julia 31:45

And then it's like, oh my god, her sister, that's so sad. But I think we would almost think of Katniss as a pick-me before that. Like if she is, you know, presented as super strong and stuff like that, and it's like, oh poor you, you're so strong. Oh, it must be so hard for you. When it's like actually, it's like shit, girl, like girl, you need a therapist. Yeah, so I don't know. I think we would almost see her um, yeah, as more of a pick me if you start there.

Jessica Mary 32:21

Yeah.

Julia 32:22

I don't know. I'll rearrange the book and then I'll give it to someone else and ask them to do a blind read and go, yes. What do you think?

Speaker 1 32:29

How uh So what we're gonna do. How do you think what do you think of this?

Jessica Mary 32:34

Booked all night's new reimagined restructured hunger game series where we take paperback copies and cut them up and put them in a new binding.

Julia 32:45

Exactly. And then we need test subjects. This is a double blind study. I love this idea.

Jessica Mary 32:53

This chapter goes here now. This chapter goes here.

Julia 32:57

Perfect. What do you think? Do you think that we would see her the same? Do you think it could have started there?

Jessica Mary 33:02

I think it could have started there. But I think that we would have needed flashbacks about Prim very early. They would have had to have been woven into this fight that the scene itself would have had to have gotten spread a little to make space for that. Because as you're saying, like Prim, we need to we need to know about Prim. We need to be attached to Prim, like Katniss is attached to Prim. We need to know about her before we know about Rue. We need to know that she volunteered and that her mother is in a terrible depression and really not responsible for her family. And we need to know all of those things prior to her being there. Otherwise, yeah, she does look like a oh, I'm too strong.

Julia 33:45

I think what have might have been captivating, kind of building on your idea, is have your first scene showing her coming up out of the tube, have that moment, and then back to the beginning of the story, and you start the story.

Jessica Mary 34:00

Yeah. Or or even like one of those like the last couple of days flash before my eye, even though I hate that.

Julia 34:06

Oh yeah.

Jessica Mary 34:07

But you know, like my life flashes before my eyes as I go into the arena, and then we get to learn about the about the rest of it. Which is also another funny thing because I don't remember if I said it last week, but it's like a faux pas now to open your book on a character waking up, but at the time this was an iconic opening that she was waking up and like reaching out for somebody.

Julia 34:33

Um Rue has no point if Prim isn't there. Where Prim still has a point if Rue isn't there. Katniss isn't in the game without Prim. That's true. This whole thing doesn't happen without Prim. Her sit like she doesn't step foot into those woods without Prim. Yeah. It's his sisterly love. So cute. Do you guys think it's weird that the last person that you see before you go up into the tube is your stylist? Yeah.

Jessica Mary 35:09

Okay, so on producer Rob's side, with the you know, it is media and coverage, and they want them all to look so pretty going into the arena before their throats get slashed on live TV. Fine, your stylist is the last one you see. But yes, it is awkward that neither of the mentors are there to see you off. With no last minute, hey Katniss, don't run into the cornucopia.

Speaker 1 35:34

Again, let me just repeat.

Jessica Mary 35:36

Yeah, let me let me be very, very clear on this particular matter. Do not run into the cornucopia. Yeah. What he should have said was, Katniss, do not find water, and then she would have found it immediately a page later.

Julia 35:51

Yeah. I think he does say that, doesn't he?

Jessica Mary 35:54

Yeah, he's like, the first thing you need to do is find water.

Julia 35:57

Yeah. And she goes, no.

Jessica Mary 36:00

Yeah, she goes, no, I'm getting a backpack.

Julia 36:02

I guess like the only thing PETA. The only thing that I would think of where that wouldn't work is you couldn't have. I mean, not that it they give a fuck, but like, um, it wouldn't be fair to like have the winner mentor with one of the tributes. Like it would be hard to like have like Hamich be like with Katniss and PETA. Yeah. I guess they could just be together and then go up tubes. But like the whole point was that they're not next to each other. I don't know.

Jessica Mary 36:34

But yeah, that also was a little weird because for everything else, all of the tributes have been together. They are presented, you know, boy then girl or girl then boy from that district, and they're they're always this pair. And it was kind of weird that they weren't raised up into the arena in that order to be together either.

Julia 36:56

But is it that like how the rest of the tributes, like no one else was dressed the same? Like, are we just thinking about these ones as pairs because of Katniss and Pita and how they're presented as pairs, but no one else really thinks about it like that.

Jessica Mary 37:11

No, I think Katna and Pita god damn it, Katniss and Pita.

Julia 37:18

How many times are we gonna say penis?

Jessica Mary 37:21

I don't know.

Julia 37:22

Count is count is two, just for the record.

Jessica Mary 37:27

I don't know.

Julia 37:28

What's an episode? I love this.

Jessica Mary 37:32

We're gonna have to keep a counter and just goes ding! She said penis again.

Julia 37:36

She said penis again.

Jessica Mary 37:38

Oh my god. Okay. I say no. All of the tributes have been shown in a group. They get on the chariots together, they are reaped together, they're on the train together. It is unique that Katniss and Pita train together and are together all the time because that's Hamish's plan in order to get them sponsors and things. But even when we go to the interviews, it's the girl from District X and then the boy from District X. It's not like the girl from District 1 and then the boy from District 7. It's not confetied in there. But it is in the arena. In the arena, it's seemingly random about where they're going and coming up.

Julia 38:23

Do you think that the game makers could have seen an alliance as a strategy that potentially could be used? So we're gonna separate them right off the bat. So it's harder for them to get to each other. And if they came up together, it would be easier to work in teams of two. Like, I'm just trying to think of a.

Jessica Mary 38:45

Yeah, I also guess from a story, from a storytelling perspective, if they are just right next to each other from the get-go, that does alleviate the tension and the worry that she has for him later. So in that sense, I guess it's okay.

Julia 38:59

Because they don't want the result that happens in this Hunger Games to happen.

Speaker 5 39:07

Yeah.

Julia 39:07

So they do they want districts killing each other as well. So it's like, let's just throw you in there and now you're an individual. You guys were seen as pairs, but now you're not.

Jessica Mary 39:20

Speaking of getting thrown in there, yeah. Uh it is just a bloodbath at the cornucopia. And specifically, there is a comment that they don't shoot the death cannon because it is too hard to track all of the deaths, so they don't do it until the end of the first day.

Julia 39:42

Go sports!

Jessica Mary 39:43

Yeah, go sports.

Julia 39:46

Like holy crap. Yeah. Cause how many died? It was like 12 died in the first one.

Jessica Mary 39:54

Uh 11 died, so there's 13 tributes left until uh the tracker tracker scene. And she Yeah, so then up in the sky projected like the bats.

Julia 40:06

A couple more people had died before the tracker jacker scene.

Jessica Mary 40:09

Oh yeah. Yeah, because there's that guy that lights the fire and she's like, views, you're killing dum-bum. Okay, specifically in the cornucopia fight, yeah, Eleven died.

Speaker 5 40:20

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 40:21

And so that night they like bats signal up in the sky the tribute's faces and what district they were from, along with the canon. And so she's counting them and she's watching, and she's like, I hope Pita isn't, but at the same time, I hope he is, because maybe it's better if he's done. You know, he had no confidence, and I will not end up with the unpleasant task of killing him.

Julia 40:46

With some foreshadowing if I ever read some.

Jessica Mary 40:49

Yo, right?

Julia 40:50

Like Yeah.

Jessica Mary 40:54

Like, why don't you just write it in neon?

Julia 40:57

Like I can't do it. I just can't kill him. I felt so bad for that moment where the kid gets the knife in the neck.

Jessica Mary 41:06

And it like splatters all over her. Oh my god.

Julia 41:14

The drama.

Jessica Mary 41:17

The violence. It's like hockey. I know.

Julia 41:21

It's like hockey. Okay. You want to talk about our maple syrup now?

Jessica Mary 41:26

Excuse me, I love maple syrup. Thank you very much. There's a tribute that comes up not long after that because she is like shimmied herself up into the tree, and she has belted herself into the tree so that she doesn't fall out while she's sleeping.

Speaker 5 41:39

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 41:40

And this tribute comes up and makes a fire, and she's got like a paragraph of hatred for this guy.

Julia 41:47

Yeah. Like, girly pop, you need a snack.

Jessica Mary 41:51

Yeah, you you need to eat some of the jerky in your bag because. Like, yeah, I understand that you're pissed, but this is like excessive. And here I am, a stone's throw from the biggest idiot in the games, strapped in a tree. Not daring to flee since my general location has just been broadcast to any killer who cares. I mean, I know it's cold out here and not everybody has a sleeping bag, but then you grit your teeth and stick it out until dawn. I lie smoldering in my bag for the next couple of hours, really thinking that if I can get out of this tree, I won't have the least problem taking out my new neighbor. My instinct has been to flee, not fight, but obviously this person's a hazard. Stupid people are dangerous, and this one probably doesn't have much in the way of weapons while I've got this excellent knife.

Julia 42:42

It's a child. It is a 12-year-old child that is terrified for their life.

Speaker 1 42:50

Calm the fuck down.

Jessica Mary 42:53

It's also like the first time that she has flipped to, yeah, I'm just gonna kill him. Because the rest of it, she's been like, I don't know that I can kill a person. I definitely don't want to kill PETA. I I don't want to have to kill. I want to just kind of survive it out and things like that. My and her instinct, as said in this quote, was to flee, to go survive elsewhere and just avoid the fighting.

Speaker 5 43:16

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 43:17

But one little fire, and I I understand it's nighttime, he little fire, he literally drew the careers to your location. You get to be mad.

Julia 43:27

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 43:28

But who boy!

Julia 43:30

It's very confusing because she doesn't have any epit empathy for this kid. Yeah, it's just gone. And she had more empathy for that kid with the knife in its neck and for the kid throwing the knife to the other kid with the knife in its neck, yeah, than she does for this guy. And it's like it just seems very out of nowhere.

Jessica Mary 43:53

It's it's very quick. And like, if this were okay, emotionally, if this were emotionally Middle grade novel, I'd be like, yeah, we run through those emotions really quick. In children's fiction, we don't tend to dwell on things or reminisce on anything bad. We're just like next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. But Hunker Games is not and was not middle grade.

Julia 44:17

Do you think that because she just witnessed the actual deaths of kids?

Jessica Mary 44:22

That she's a little more jaded and she's like, you know what? Fine.

Julia 44:25

Yeah. That she's like, oh, this is actually real. Like I have to fucking get in this.

Speaker 1 44:30

Yeah.

Julia 44:31

Because you don't really have any other uh like initi not initiating incident. Well get it. Inciting? There we go. Inciting incident that would um create such a shift in character. Yeah. But you do have her witnessing a lot of people dying, and she's like, well.

Jessica Mary 44:54

And they're and they're bloody horrific deaths. Yeah. But I also wish that there had been like a little buildup emotionally to this crossover. Because it is just like page 131, I don't want to kill anyone. Page 132, I'm gonna kill this bastard and his fire. I'm gonna slit his neck with my knife. It's like, whoa, did I maybe have two pages stuck together?

Julia 45:18

Yeah, especially like in the movie, the kid the kid is represented as a kid. And it's not I don't think it's talked about at all in this.

Jessica Mary 45:29

Yeah, I don't I don't think the movie even shows the the fire getting made. The I mean No, I can picture it.

Julia 45:36

The kid like sits in front of the fire and like sits down, and it's like a young boy, I think, in the movie, but I think it's described as a girl here.

Speaker 1 45:44

I don't remember.

Julia 45:45

Regardless, yeah, it like shows the kid like huddling down in front of the fire, and then the next shot is like Kato with his big fucking sword.

Jessica Mary 45:55

I don't remember that.

Julia 45:56

Regardless, it's weird that they she has no empathy for like I can't believe this young child is doing this to themselves. Unfortunately, I can't help them. I wish I could help them.

Jessica Mary 46:10

Especially because she's had that re Yeah, no, she's had that reaction for like every other child. She's like, oh, Rue is so tiny, and this other kid is so tiny, and and no one is looking out for them. But this one, she's like, I am looking to drop this knife into your skull. I hate you so much.

Julia 46:28

I mean, uh in this it says, I see a spark in a small fire, begins to bloom, a pair of hands warms over the flames, but I can't make out more than that. Okay. So the kid being presented as a kid in the movie could just be for our benefit.

Jessica Mary 46:44

Yeah.

Julia 46:45

But even in the movie, I can remember her seeing the fire and being like, oh, she's just like what ever. Like, I can't believe they're doing that. Like okay, girly pop.

Jessica Mary 47:00

Yeah. And that of course draws the careers over.

Julia 47:03

Yeah, and then she sees PETA. I want to know how PETA got in with them. So do I. Which is why I went back to that I the game makers saw his social skills, and that's why they gave him a higher number, but that doesn't make sense because the Caesar thing was after him.

Speaker 1 47:23

Yeah.

Julia 47:24

I don't know. I want to know. I want to know how he did it. I don't remember if that's in the books. I don't remember if that's talked about in the movie.

Jessica Mary 47:31

I don't remember either. I remember in the movie and in I believe it happened in this section that like Pita goes back to kill one of the other tributes that wasn't quite dead because the cannon hadn't gone off yet.

Julia 47:47

Um well it's the it's the kid warming his hands around the fire who says that he goes and kills the child.

Jessica Mary 47:53

Yeah. And while he's gone, the careers are like, he's only here so that we can find her.

Speaker 5 47:59

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 48:00

But even then, what part of Pita's training made it look like he'd be good at tracking?

Julia 48:08

See, I thought it was like drawing her out as bait.

Jessica Mary 48:13

I mean, that makes the most sense.

Julia 48:16

Okay. But were you gonna say hauling stuff?

Jessica Mary 48:18

Yeah, but but what they say is that it's only here so that we can find her, as if PETA is the one tracking her. And like PETA threw some weights, he used to haul some flour, he decorated cakes. None of these things are tracking skills.

Julia 48:38

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 48:39

So it's weird that he had any one up to say to them.

Julia 48:43

Go on, lover boy, see for yourself.

Jessica Mary 48:46

Yeah.

Julia 48:46

Why don't we just kill him now and get over it? Let him take along with the harm. He's handy with that knife. Is he that's news?

Speaker 5 48:53

Yeah.

Julia 48:55

So that could have added to the the eight.

Jessica Mary 48:59

Oh, speci yeah.

Julia 49:00

Followed by our best chance of finding her.

Jessica Mary 49:03

Followed by what a lot of interesting things I'm learning about my friend PETA today.

Julia 49:08

Yeah. Why do you think she bought into that sappy romance stuff? She might have. Yeah, and then PETA goes and kills it's a little girl.

Speaker 5 49:16

Yep.

Julia 49:17

Which she did, no, but she is now, and then the canon goes off, and you're like, PETA. Okay. Someone else that lost all their empathy.

Jessica Mary 49:25

That's another one that just flips a switch.

Julia 49:27

But I mean, that's kind of shows, I guess, what the games are.

Jessica Mary 49:30

Yeah.

Julia 49:32

So I find it so funny the parts where she's like, I pause a second, giving the cameras time to lock in on me, then I cock my head slightly to the side and give a knowing smile. There, let them fig figure out what that means. How do you know they're watching you right now?

Jessica Mary 49:47

Yeah, one, how do you know where they are? Because it it was very like the cameras are all hidden and you don't know where they are, but she just has this moment. She's like, I know that they're looking at me. My note for that is just cuckoo could you. If anybody doesn't understand my reference, it is I Am the Walrus by the Beatles, written specifically because they found out that a university was studying their songs, and they went, huh, let them figure out what that means.

Julia 50:17

Yeah. She I it's so like main character syndrome. What's going on with everybody else? That they're focused on you climbing down a fucking tree.

Jessica Mary 50:27

Yeah. And at this point, though, like at this point they walk past her and she gets to go exploring. And then that big fire drives them back. So like she goes out, she finds water, she hydrates, she takes like a five-minute nap, and then she's sent back into the path of the the careers. But now she's all burnt up from the fire, and she goes back up into the tree because she's like, Well, you are all big and muscly, and I'm a scrawny little girl, and you can't climb trees like I can.

Julia 50:57

And just a baby.

Jessica Mary 50:58

Just a baby. I'm just a baby. This is where Sassmaster Katniss, Sassness, if you will, comes out. Because once she's up in the tree, she looks down at them directly and she's like, How's everything with you?

Julia 51:12

I loved that part. And I was like, Yes, bitch. Where has this been the whole time? Yeah. Like, you just found it. You just found your sass. Great. Better late than never, I guess.

Jessica Mary 51:25

Yeah. And then Glimmer starts shooting the arrows, and she's like, Those are mine. Stop wasting them.

Julia 51:31

Oh my god. Stop blowing holes in my ship. Yes. That's exactly.

Speaker 3 51:38

Yes, that's that's my note is stop blowing holes in my ship. That's so funny. Yeah. And she's like, oh shit. And then it like gets really close.

Julia 51:47

She's like, that one got a little close. It's pretty funny that they are all looking down or looking up at her, and then they're all like, we're gonna take a nap right here under this tree. And I was like, that would be fucking if if that tracker jack nest hadn't been there, that would be the most um like you know when you have a flight the next morning and you're worried about missing it? Like that feeling times 10.

Jessica Mary 52:16

Yeah. I don't understand how any of them fall asleep around any other of them. If I were Glimmer, for example, and they were like, you keep first watch the minute they were all asleep by B-Leg and you're dead, and you're dead, and you're dead, and you're dead. Like, how how do they have a trust in there?

Julia 52:37

Yeah, my favorite is in the movie when Kato and Glimmer are like cuddled.

Jessica Mary 52:43

I'm so interested in the dynamics of the career pack and how anybody trusts anybody else in there to watch them when they are sleeping, which would be at their most vulnerable in the games.

Julia 52:57

You kind of have to develop some sort of strategy and do the careers. I guess no, there's no travel, so it's not like they would have met each other beforehand or anything. But I don't know, you gotta figure out a strategy, and human nature is funny where you all wanna make a little team and all come together.

Speaker 1 53:16

Yeah, but then if you just wipe out that team, you've wiped out the the strongest people. The strongest people, yeah.

Julia 53:24

Like, but you kill one, like it's that over-under of like, well, what if you kill one and then the rest of them wake up?

Jessica Mary 53:32

Well, then you didn't do it correctly.

Julia 53:34

And then you died.

Jessica Mary 53:35

So this this episode's gonna make me look like a psychopath.

Julia 53:41

Just gotta kill everybody, huh? What are they doing?

Jessica Mary 53:44

Which one? Yeah, which one?

Julia 53:47

I don't see the problem.

Jessica Mary 53:48

These are the things I think about as a writer. Wouldn't you just murder everybody? How much murder is too much murder? I have an answer for that though. That's seven.

Julia 53:57

I have that in my uh DD groups. How much murder is too much murder?

Jessica Mary 54:03

Uh yes. We murder hobos. I'm a murder herbo and producer Rob's campaign.

Julia 54:08

Oh, that's fun.

Jessica Mary 54:10

So she she's stuck on the walk.

Julia 54:13

Oh, yeah, and then she sorry. Yes.

Jessica Mary 54:15

Yeah, so she's still stuck up in the tree, and Rue is like, hey, look, and then absconds away in the other tree tops.

Julia 54:23

Spider monkeys across the fucking trees. It just poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, boop, boop, boop, boop, so reasonable. So just full twilight. Full twilight. Sorry. And then Hayman sends.

Jessica Mary 54:36

Yeah, so then Hamish sends her the medicine and it it heals on contact. There's no waiting. Like the minute it goes on, her skin is is reformed, the burns on her hand.

Julia 54:47

Pink and beautiful.

Jessica Mary 54:49

Yeah. It's one of the many things that shows the clear line of what it's like in the Capitol versus what it's like in the district. The district is poor, the capital is rich, the capital has things, the district has nothing. The capital has access to healthcare, and the districts have herbal remedies, or at the very least, district 12 has herbal remedies, and they rely on like chewing bark and other kinds of things that you can grow in your garden. And it feels like the Capitol itself has probably never had to sit through so much as a paper cut.

Julia 55:21

Do you also find it weird that she like references the price of things all the time? I'm like, how do you know? No? I I don't like she's like, this this medicine must have cost so many sponsors. And I'm like, how do you know that? This could be like fucking polysporn for them, for the capital, right?

Jessica Mary 55:41

I think growing up and being forced to watch the games, she probably has a clear understanding of how much each of these things costs, because they it strikes me as something they would have on the counter. Like this this tribute has raised this much money, and so they were able to get this kind of thing. Like I know which chips are the best chips to get when you're on a budget, and which chips you can get when you have a little extra money in your pocket.

Julia 56:06

That's fair. I I see I'm looking at it from like, we'll say a person in a village, like in a third world country, looking at something remote versus something in a metropolis. Yeah, like looking at North American medicine and looking at we'll say polysporn next to I don't know a better one, and being like, oh, these are magic, when we're like, no, the polysporn costs five dollars and the magic tube is like $300, but to that person, it both looks expensive.

Jessica Mary 56:42

Yeah.

Julia 56:43

Anyways, I guess it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

Jessica Mary 56:46

Nothing. At least not for Katniss in this particular situation.

Julia 56:51

That's fair. But she gets a perfectly landed parachuted medicine bowl right exactly on the center of her sleeping bag that is on a tiny fork in a tree branch without the parachute catching on any other branches on its way down.

Jessica Mary 57:08

Yes. I always like even though it says it's a parachute, I have always imagined them as like a little drone, and the little drone comes in.

Julia 57:16

Oh, okay.

Jessica Mary 57:18

But even then I always just pictured parachute, so it it's so densely wooded, you're telling me.

Julia 57:25

Literally, it just landed perfectly.

Jessica Mary 57:27

Yeah, it just right there.

Julia 57:29

Yeah, and then she cuts those tracker jacks, tracker jackers? Yeah, tracker jackers. Tracker jackers?

Jessica Mary 57:36

Tracker jack's the worst kind of popcorn. She gets stung three times, and it's right after telling us that even one sting from a tracker jacker can kill you. And I'm like, where did you?

Julia 57:52

I thought that was like the because doesn't she talk about two different ones? How there's like the tracker jacker, and then this must be the hybrid version of that, and she's just making an educated guess. Because she's that's what I thought it was for some reason. Was uh another capital made Capital Made product brought to you by the Capitol. Just a hybrid on a hybrid, essentially.

Jessica Mary 58:19

It might have been. But even then, she was like, they can kill you.

Julia 58:26

Oh yeah, she's stung three times.

Jessica Mary 58:28

Yeah, so the tracker jackers are the hybrid, and specifically larger than regular wasps, they have a distinct solid gold body and a sting that raises a lump the size of a plum on contact. Most people can't tolerate more than a few stings. Some die at once. If you live, the hallucinations brought on by the venom have actually driven people to madness. So, like right after that, she gets stung three times.

Julia 58:55

But is it one of those things where like if you were sick and you got COVID, you died, but it healthier like healthy people had less likely chance of dying. So some people die, but like that sort of thing. But it's also a book, and she's the main character, so she can't die from three little bee stings. I know. She has to be extra special, she has to be able to survive at least three. I know. She's so special. I know, but like and she does not do well. No, she does not do well.

Jessica Mary 59:27

She's tripping her balls off in like five paragraphs after this. So Glimmer dies, uh, and the girl from District 4, I believe, also dies.

Julia 59:37

Yeah. So somehow PETA doesn't get a single one. Isn't he interesting?

Jessica Mary 59:43

You know why? Because because he's so good at decorating cakes.

Julia 59:48

Because he's so special, because he's also the main character. So he's not gonna either. Plot armor is important. Hamich sent him down a little note that was like, Yo, bitch, run fast.

Jessica Mary 1:00:03

I imagine Hamish sending them little little notes, and it's just like a hand-drawn like middle finger, like I was just thinking that.

Julia 1:00:10

I was like, it's just Hamish sending a thing that's like, fuck you. You went for the bow.

Jessica Mary 1:00:16

You went for the bow. Here's your water. Bitch, I told you to find water, and then there's just like a little drawing of a dick at the bottom of it. Hamish. The result from the tracker jackers, though, is disgusting. She she describes Glimmer because she goes back. Literally. Yeah, she goes back for her bow and the arrows, and she describes Glimmer, and Glimmer, who was once so beautiful, is now covered in these huge, pustuous lumps all over, and like foul green smelling liquid oozes from it.

Julia 1:00:54

And I'm like that are exploding.

Jessica Mary 1:00:56

Yeah, and some of them are getting so big they're exploding.

Julia 1:01:00

But is this also her elus her hallucination?

Jessica Mary 1:01:05

Mmm what are words? I don't know. Mine but that's my next question. After cat because this happens in these descriptions are after Katniss gets stung. Is this made worse by hallucinating? Did PETA actually show up? Because also, what the fuck is happening chemically from those wounds if that's not a hallucination? But she's like tripping balls as she's running away. So like trees appear out of nowhere, the world bends, butterflies balloon up to the size of a house and explode into stars. Trees become blood and splash on her shoes, and ants crawl out of blisters on her hands and crawl all over her. And there's a long scream with no breath that she quote suspects but does not confirm is her. Oh yeah, then the ants.

Julia 1:02:00

It's always the distant fucking scream. Yeah. The ants in her eyes over that, but it's always the distant scream. I didn't realize I was sh- I heard a scream and I didn't realize it was me. I hate that trick. Like how I hate when that's written in a book.

Jessica Mary 1:02:14

But how high do you have to be to not know that you're the one screaming?

Julia 1:02:19

Well, this is this is written in books where people are not high at all. Right.

Jessica Mary 1:02:22

So she's like she's hallucinating. She's on, she's essentially on the trees are turning to blood.

Julia 1:02:28

I don't know if we're worried about screams at this point.

Jessica Mary 1:02:31

Yeah. So does Glimmer actually look like that? And did PETA actually come up to her?

Julia 1:02:40

Yeah, I I can't remember if that's talked about again. Um, I'm interested to see. That seems like too much of a normal thing to happen in this hallucination. The one that I don't want to know was is real is when she's taking Glimmer's body and lifting her up to grab the arrows, and it talks about how her skin is disintegrating. And she's like, I don't know what I grabbed. It was her rib cage. And I was like, I'm glad you're hallucinating right now. Honestly, if this is real, because you could just chalk it up to that.

Jessica Mary 1:03:18

It's so gross. This whole like chapter. I want my bow and arrows. This whole chapter was disgusting.

Julia 1:03:24

Go back in a minute. My God.

Jessica Mary 1:03:27

Disgusting, the whole thing.

Julia 1:03:29

Well, and then she's like so worried that the Capitol's little ship is gonna take her or something. So she like lays on top of Glimmer's body to like stop. She thinks the Capitol ship is gonna come, and then she's like, Oh, she came for four. But I was like, but then Glimmer's body would get lifted up, and then you could grab the arrows that are underneath her.

Jessica Mary 1:03:47

She's worried about the body getting lifted up with the arrows.

Julia 1:03:50

Oh, right, because it's still strapped. Because she does pull at one point, and then she's like, it finally came free. I think it was on her shoulder blade. I was like, Well then she's like, I immediately put it on, even though it was just covered in someone else's jeans.

Speaker 1 1:04:06

She literally just described that like these pustules are bursting. I'm like, then that thing's covered in quote, a foul smelling green liquid. Ew. Delicious. Ew.

Julia 1:04:21

Delicious. Yeah. And then I mean at the end, Pita showing up and being like, run, and then like, yeah, Kato is following close behind, and she's tripping balls, and then everything goes black, and it's like it's a little far-fetched that she actually got away. Like, are we watching the video? Like Capital, we're watching the Capitol video, and it's all of them tripping balls running around, and then they all pass out in a circle right fucking next to each other. You know what I hate? And it's so anticlimactic. And they're all passed out just right there. And PETA hasn't gotten stung at all because he's extra super special, is like here's my new headcanon for the scene for what the capital saw.

Jessica Mary 1:05:10

They all get bit by the tracker jackers, and then they all essentially run around on a square foot, like little meth heads, having their own little hallucinations, and no one is actually getting away from another one.

Julia 1:05:25

They're just all just Yeah, yeah, they're screaming.

Jessica Mary 1:05:29

Somebody is screaming.

Julia 1:05:31

And literally Pete is just standing there like I'm surrounded by idiots.

Jessica Mary 1:05:39

That makes it even better. He's the one sober friend. Just sitting there like the one sober friend.

Julia 1:05:48

Yeah. And then, I mean, the thing that got me at the end was the ants pouring out of her eyes. The ants bore into my eyes.

Jessica Mary 1:05:57

Ugh, and I black out.

Julia 1:05:59

No, thank you. No, thank you. I'm done with the illusions.

Intro 1:06:04

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