A Whole New Attitude About Murder: The Hunger Games, 15-21

It's her first kill, of course it's going to change her... (but what about all of the kills before this one?) 

Jess and Julia continue our dive into Suzanne Collins' The Hunger Games, touching on emotion and emotionality in YA fiction, the significance of kissing without a hygiene regimen, real-life experience with concussion and illness, whether or not tributes... get intimate... in the arena, and much more. 

BookShop
Every purchase on the site financially supports independent bookstores.

RedBubble
Bringing more creativity into the world.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Jessica Mary 0:04

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes me craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess.

Outro 0:10

I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes.

Jessica Mary 0:15

A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shade. Grab your blankets, booklets, it's time to get booked all night.

Julia 0:24

I am so excited to talk about this uh session this week. This is gonna be a fun little chapter breakdown.

Jessica Mary 0:32

Yeah, there was so much that happened in this section, and like before I really dive into like all the things that I'm excited to be about, because I I kind of like three or four things that I'm really excited to kind of pick apart and just kind of like go at craft-wise, and also as a reader, and just kind of be like, this was so exciting, and these are the things that I think that it means and everything else. But before that, welcome to Book to All Night. I'm Jess. I'm Julia. And tonight we're continuing our deep dive into the Hunger Games. We're about to discuss chapters 15 through 21. So if you're not caught up, hit pause, come back later. We will be here. This discussion series will include all of the books and movies and take us all the way up to the movie release of Sunrise on the Reaping in November. Okay, last chance to pause because here is my recap. So we have Tracker Jacker Nightmares, the trademarked, oh my god, it wasn't betrayal, a significantly changed attitude about murder. Hey, there is underwear in this universe. Learning a little bit about another district. The sunglasses have a purpose, they are night vision glasses, oblivious ex catness. Rue is prim and this will hurt. Kaboom goes the food. Ear damage, I guess the fire was okay, I'm cold without my sleeping bag. Where's Rue? Oh, I found Rue. Fisher Price, my first murder, that I'm acknowledging because I forgot about the other two. A tragic farewell song, and the first respect between districts. Turning my pages, don't mind me. Another thing I can't talk about until we get to Sunrise on the Reaping. More than enough hatred to go around, a small loaf of bread, rule changes, odd romantic tension towards someone you don't care about, quote unquote. Playing house, we have something you all need. Oops, I drugged you, another favor between districts, and a nice little stab.

Julia 2:20

Sorry, do we need to have a podcast episode now?

Jessica Mary 2:23

Yes. But there was there was a lot, and like even just trying to summarize it, I'm like, I can't because I would have I would have to put down so many nitty-gritty details about all of the things that happened in this section, and it's only seven chapters.

Julia 2:39

For me, it was like, I can kill people now. Yeah. And and then I need to find PETA. Yes. I need to find my buddy. That that's that's the whole thing for me.

Jessica Mary 2:51

Okay, so we could start right there. Her whole new attitude about murder. And of course, you know, Rue dies in this particular section. It's very sad. Uh but she does. She goes from, okay, I'm just gonna run away and I'm gonna survive and I'm just gonna be elsewhere to you know what? Where's Kato? If Kato came up right now, I would just shoot him, I wouldn't run away.

Julia 3:16

And it's like, that's um like actually bloodthirsty.

Jessica Mary 3:20

Yeah.

Julia 3:21

Like looking to kill people. Yes. Like she was hunting and it was great, and I was here for that.

Jessica Mary 3:30

There's also so she kills the boy from District 1 who killed Rue. And right after that, she's like, oh my god, I killed a person. And I was like, bitch, you killed two other people. You dropped a tracker jacker nest on top of them.

Julia 3:43

She does try to justify it right after, though.

Jessica Mary 3:45

Yeah, she does. She's like, but you know, they were there. Nobody told them to camp beneath a tracker jacker nest.

Julia 3:52

Like It was like um Disney murder. Yes! It's a Disney murder, it barely counts.

Jessica Mary 3:59

It's also very drastically different from her day one in the arena feel, where like when she got into the cornucopia and everybody's dying around her, she's so frenetic, and she's like, oh my god, there's blood, and people are dying, and oh, he died right next to me, and now she's like, I'm gonna kill you.

Julia 4:18

Literally, the quote is if Kato broke through the trees right now, I wouldn't flee, I'd shoot. I find I'm actually anticipating the moment with pleasure. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 4:30

Oh okay. Yeah, like in writing, we talk about like this moment in the character where they have this kind of answer to the call of adventure. And I feel like that was this call. Because prior to that, she's like, I'm just gonna be away, right? She's like, I I didn't have a choice to come here and I'm in here, but I can probably survive longer than anybody else here because of what I do. And now she's like, Oh no, no, now I'm in it.

Julia 4:56

Bring it.

Jessica Mary 4:57

Yeah, bring it. Come here, Kato. Let me let me shoot you in the face. Like, it's insane. But her her attitude toward her own death is also different because beforehand she's like, I just, you know, I hope I don't die and I hope I survive. And then there is this moment where Claudius What's his nuts, that's the official name, it's Claudius What's His Nuts, comes on and he says, Ever I've got something everybody needs, right? And it's got the medicine for Pita, and so everybody goes down to the feast, quote unquote. And Thresh gets a hold of the girl from what is her name? Clove, gets a hold of Clove, and he's like, Did you kill Rue? And he, you know, bashes our head in. And Katniss's attitude after that is just make mine quick, versus I don't want to die at all, to it's going to come just, you know, swift, we're good. And that's when Thresh is like, No, you took care of Rue, I'm going to let you go this once, but the next time I see you, dead.

Julia 5:54

Was she like caught under something or something like that? That she was like stuck there? Because like, if he's bashing Clove's head in, then you'd think that he's attention is elsewhere, and she could have just run away.

Jessica Mary 6:10

This is right after Clove hits her in the head with um a knife, and so she's bleeding from atop her eyebrow, and she's like, I'm a little woozy, and I'm like, that's a unique unique concussion you got there, but okay.

Julia 6:25

She's like, I can't see stuff because blood is currently pouring into my eyes.

Jessica Mary 6:30

Yes.

Julia 6:30

Okay.

Jessica Mary 6:31

Yeah, and then Frest smashes uh Clobe's head in with a ruck, and then he turns around on her. But no, it doesn't look yeah, I'm trapped in the glare of his strange golden brown eyes. That's the only way that she's trapped. She is not physically trapped.

Julia 6:47

I guess if you're like have a concussion, it's not like she would have been able to run away quickly. It would have been like a drunken stumble, and then he would have tried to grab her and blah, blah, blah. So might as well just lay there. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 7:00

And just accept that it's coming. I'm gonna die, and Pete's gonna die a terrible death because he's got a huge infection that he's fighting off. And when she runs from here, it's like the first time she doesn't check back to see if somebody's following her, she just assumes that Kato went after Thresh.

Julia 7:17

Doesn't she like not care though?

Jessica Mary 7:18

Yeah, like she's definitely had a change in character to the point she does not give a damn. She's like, whatever, if you come here and you come to this cave, I'ma shoot you. I already drugged PETA, which is another That scene was funny.

Julia 7:35

We'll get to that.

Jessica Mary 7:36

We will, we will. We have to back up to that scene, but it was funny as hell to me. Not that drugging people is funny, but this particular scene was funny about it.

Julia 7:45

I load an arrow, but Kato can throw that spear almost as far as I can shoot. Only one thing calms me down. Thrush has Kato's backpack containing the thing he needs desperately. If I had to bet Kato headed out after Thrush, not me. Still, I don't slow down when I reach the water. Blah blah blah.

Jessica Mary 8:01

Yeah, and then she jams it in in like a epi pen and then crashes.

Julia 8:06

Yeah, and then passes out. Yeah. I mean, I feel like her attitude towards that is like, fuck it. It's either I get there or I don't. Like, come at me, bro.

Jessica Mary 8:16

Yeah. So if come at me bro had a t-shirt or a visual definition, it is Katniss in the second half of this book where she's just like, fuck it. I think every overachieving kid has this, or even just like the rule followers, where I did what I was supposed to do, I played by your the rules of your game, and now I'm at a point that I don't care because you have pushed me to the edge. Like Rue, Rue dying in front of her, and her burial of Rue was the proverbial straw.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 8:51

And I think it's written so well here because we also have the distraction of the games, and so logically, she does not have time to grieve after Rue's death. And so we can be like, yeah, no, that works. That's fine. You you do you. You go and seek vengeance because that makes sense given the world and the area that you are in right now. But if like she were anywhere else in any other sitting setting, I feel like we would need a longer time in the emotion of Rue's death. Because here we have an entire chapter where we're like, oh my god, where's Rue? What happened to Rue? The third fire wasn't lit. Do we know where Rue is? And we spend some time looking for her. We even go overnight, which is when Katniss has this just epiphany that, you know, the other tribute that lit the fire that first night might have been cold without a sleeping bag. She's like, I guess it's okay that they did that. I'm like, yeah, no shit, bitch. And then we do finally catch up to Rue. She's caught in the the net, and that's when the boy from District 1 stabs her. And then that next chapter is her laying her to rest, and that's it, and we move on.

Julia 9:58

Was she caught in the net the whole time?

Jessica Mary 10:00

Was Rue? Maybe. I don't know.

Julia 10:01

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 10:02

It's it's not really clear if like the kid from District 1 was like, I'm gonna throw this net over you, and I'm gonna wait till the other one shows up.

Julia 10:09

Oh, as like a trap, yeah. Like bait. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mary 10:13

And then he is a career, is correct, from producer Rob.

Julia 10:17

It's a weird choice, though, to then kill Rue and to not immediately kill Katniss, because Rue's caught.

Jessica Mary 10:25

So for him to kill Rue is Or or even flipped to not kill Katniss first, that she would be the bigger threat in comparison to Rue.

Julia 10:33

Yeah. Do you think he missed?

Jessica Mary 10:35

I wonder if, like, because it just seems so happenstance that it all happens at the same time that she catches up to Rue as he catches Rue. Yeah. I think I like the presentation of it in the movie a little better as I remember it, that you know, he catches up to both of them and he throws the spear and Katniss dodges and it hits Rue.

Julia 10:57

Right. Katniss is in front of her and then turns around and it has hit Rue. Makes more sense.

Jessica Mary 11:02

I think it makes more sense because the the net does kind of give the feel that he's like, I'm waiting for the bigger tribute to show up.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 11:10

But at the same time, okay, fine, you waited for like a day and a half.

Julia 11:15

It's a long time.

Jessica Mary 11:16

That's a long time. Especially when you know that this other tribute is really good with long distance murder.

Julia 11:22

Yeah, and Katniss could have just, if she had seen him, just shot him from a distance. But no, she had to be emotional.

Jessica Mary 11:30

Listen, she's not emotional a lot. And this section, I know we've talked about it in like the previous episodes where we're like, Katniss is totally on the spectrum. But in this section is when she finally has the Gail and PETA talk, and she keeps going, like, well, they're not really romantic. Why would he look at me like that? Why would anybody look at anybody like that?

Julia 11:51

For some reason, Gail and PETA do not coexist well together in my thoughts.

Jessica Mary 11:57

Like, that's the closest she comes to like some social understanding that they wouldn't cooperate.

Julia 12:03

And I'm like, girl. Can we circle back to you saying Katniss is not emotional? Because she is so emotional. It's okay, let's start number one emotional volunteering for her sister. Not logical, emotional. And then her throwing the knife at Hey Mitch, emotional, and then her pushing PETA down, emotional. And then her trying to go after the cornucopia instead of running away, emotional.

Jessica Mary 12:39

And then But that feels I guess that feels more outbursty to me than which is an emotion.

Julia 12:48

Like I would say emotional is making split decisions based on emotion. But maybe that's just my definition of that.

Jessica Mary 12:56

I mean it more in sitting with the emotion. Because even the examples we have here, oh no, my sister is about to get reaped. I have to do that. Right? There's like the decision isn't thought about, it is just here it is. The same thing with pulling the knife on Hamich. Boom, done. We're not angry anymore because I've gotten my anger out. And we don't sit and understand why we're angry about things. We just know that we're angry about things. We have a label for them as opposed to kind of sitting and understanding them. And the closest that we come to that is Rue and the funeral that is given to Rue with sitting in an emotion.

Julia 13:36

Okay. So she's just emotionally unintelligent. Kind of. She's just really shut down because she has to be because of her life prior to that moment. Because she's been in like uh not sacrifice mode, but she's been in survival mode. Survival mode, thank you so much. She's been in survival mode her whole life. So she can't afford to like sit there and think about anything for a hot minute. But I would still say that she leads her split decisions with emotion and not with logic.

Jessica Mary 14:09

I can agree to that.

Julia 14:11

But when she sits there and thinks about it, she does think of the logical path and what should have or could happen going forward. Often without emotion, which is to her detriment.

Jessica Mary 14:23

Which is how I feel that she thinks about Gail and PETA.

Julia 14:28

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 14:29

Where she's like, Oh, I wonder what Gail thinks about that. Not that Gail is like any sort of romantic interest for me. Quote, not that I think about that. And I lean in for a kiss to PETA. It's my first kiss, which is kind of weird. And then I lean back.

Julia 14:43

There's a lot of kissing. We're gonna we're gonna hit that, but I want to do that. There's a lot of kissing.

Jessica Mary 14:48

The kissing is like not even kissing, it's I'm leaning in to whisper you something secret.

Julia 14:53

Yeah. Um, okay, before we go there, her learning about the other districts, I thought was really interesting. She had that realization again about, oh, we're not mad at the other districts, we're fighting the capital, and not even the people of the capital were fighting the government. So for her to like put that together again was nice to Yeah, there's a there's so many points where she puts that together.

Jessica Mary 15:21

Like when they get reaped, she's like, I'm not even mad, like it's not Effie's fault, it's the government's fault, this big umbrella term. And the same thing when she kills the boy from District 1, she's like, I'm not mad at him. He's just doing what he like needs to do in the circumstance, but also fuck the Capitol. And I'm not mad at PETA, but fuck the Capitol for putting us together like this. And and it's like, okay, well, we keep coming to that. Do you like want to further understand that? Because I I feel like the the understanding that she has of I shouldn't be mad at the people that are in here with me, I should be mad at the people that put us all in here to begin with, is like a very surface level understanding.

Julia 16:06

Yeah, but it kinda has to be like the everyone else in there is trying to like kill her. So she doesn't really have time to think about it. Also, like what she's gonna be like, hi everyone, team meeting, we need to fight against the capital.

Jessica Mary 16:18

I mean, she doesn't think.

Julia 16:19

I know we're all trying to kill each other.

Jessica Mary 16:20

I know we're supposed to kill each other, but like what if instead we didn't? And then they all just get shot immediately by the capital, because the capital's like, that's not good TV. It is weird that it is something that keeps coming up and going back down, though. Where she's like, oh fuck this kid. I mean the capital. Oh, I'm gonna kill him, but I really want to kill the capital. And I kind of wish that the realization of it had been switched, like writing-wise, where she's like, I I'm mad at the Capitol because I have to kill this kid, as opposed to I killed this kid and then I'm mad at the Capitol, if that makes sense.

Julia 16:56

Yeah, no, it definitely makes sense. It would help further her empathy track. Because I do find throughout at least the movies, her she does have a lack of empathy, and she is presented as very cold the whole time. So could potentially have helped with that.

Jessica Mary 17:14

Yeah, on on that note, with the like humanization of her, I want to bring up Rue again in just the the relationship that she had with her, where she treats Rue like her little sister. I mean, just little um surrogate prim for her in the arena. But also in the respect that she shows another tribute, another member of the districts, and it seems like it's the first time that any sort of respect has gone across district lines. And we do know because she says outright that the bread that District 11 sends her is the first time any other district has sent a gift to somebody that was not from their district. Which, like, how do you know? My headcanon on this is that they probably always have a little commentary. Count? Like a count, right? Like Katniss had this many gifts and Cato had this many gifts, and each time they get delivered, there's probably some commentator saying that comes from blah blah blah, sponsor, yeah, his medicine sponsored by blah blah blah.

Julia 18:16

Pepsi.

Jessica Mary 18:17

Yeah, so exactly. Like sleeping syrup, sponsored by DymoTap. Put your kids to sleep whether they want to or not, DymoTap. But that moment does so much to humanize her, not only to us the reader, but like in the world. It also humanizes her to the districts to thresh the other tribute and to the capital as well. So I feel like that plays out in so many other ways than just her empathetic journey and her ability to be like, emotions are okay to have.

Julia 18:52

100%. I think it also does a lot to demonstrate to the greater public that the districts can work together. Yes. And I really liked that. Also, her description of the bread sounded delicious.

Jessica Mary 19:06

Right. Someone get me a recipe. We can all go back to lockdown and make our own bread, and it'll just be district bread. It's fine.

Julia 19:15

I love this idea. This sounds like a great idea. Sounds like a great series.

Jessica Mary 19:19

I bet there is a recipe for district 11 bread. To the internet. District 11.

Julia 19:25

To the internet we go!

Jessica Mary 19:28

Recipe to the internet. Yeah, there sure is. There's a bunch of them.

Julia 19:33

We'll have to make a TikTok about it or something.

Jessica Mary 19:35

Yes.

Julia 19:36

What did you think of the kind of cornucopia situation with like the mines, the Lalan mines?

Jessica Mary 19:46

That is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, and it's mostly because of Foxface, where she obviously knows where they are, and she has this kind of like almost tribal dance that she does around all of them. She's hopping, she's balancing, she's like making sure she doesn't touch anything. She grabs a little bit of food and then she bounces. In the book, though, after seeing that Katniss actually like stays more hidden than she does in the movie. So like I kind of remember a lot of the movie scenes versus the book scene. So I'm like, I thought that she came like really far into the clearing, but in the book, she's like, I took like two steps past the forest line and then shot and it blew up. My one thing that I take away from that is she's got the ear damage, and she should be so much more wobbly than she is from that damage. Our ear, our dumbass ear and the inner ear and all the mechanics of it are one of the things that are required for us to keep our balance. And when you are shooting, when you are an archer, your balance is very important. Being able to stay upright, being able to hold yourself still so you can aim, even if she is doing it quickly. She still needs to repeat those steps over and over. And I don't think she'd be able to do it if her entire body feels like it's on like a tilt-a-wirl, which it would with that level of damage to her ear, like, right? She's like bleeding out of her ear. And then we kind of just move forward. She's like, Well, the ringing stopped in my other ear, but this damage is done. And I'm like, Yeah, but you would still be having issues from that damage.

Julia 21:21

Yeah, not just like hearing issues. Yeah. Because that's kind of all she references. And she's like, it's so weird that I still can't hear out of that one. That's throwing off my senses or something.

Jessica Mary 21:34

Specifically, she says her safety because she's like, I can hear out my right, but I can't, I don't have like a 360 sense of what's going on anymore.

Julia 21:43

Is that like a because we're older reading this, we're recognizing it, and as a kid thing that we would just skip over it? Yeah.

Jessica Mary 21:51

Hundo percent.

Julia 21:53

Because you kind of gotta pick what to include and what to just not include.

Jessica Mary 21:56

It's true, especially in like Kidlet and young adult is still. Kidlit. My thing with it, right, and I bring up reader response theory all the time on this podcast, which is the reader brings themselves to a text. So any experiences we've had, we're going to key into those more reading this, right? As a kid, I constantly got inner ear infections. And we wouldn't know until I started walking into shit, which is how I know if you've got any sort of damage to your ear, especially your inner ear where you're going to be bleeding from. You're you're not walking straight. She should be constantly walking into trees and being like, I'm gonna walk straight and find herself off to the left or the right or something because her balance is so altered.

Julia 22:41

See, I've never had like any inner ear stuff happen to me, so I wouldn't even know what to associate with it. Like to have that much of a balanced thing, like I'd be like, would you have that much of a balance?

Jessica Mary 22:54

You can you would.

Julia 22:56

Because like I had just haven't experienced it, like you said.

Jessica Mary 22:59

So it I knew it was a thing, but it's I could talk about ear infections, I don't want to talk about ear infections, but yeah, that's fair.

Julia 23:07

Um having it would have more of an impact than it than it did in the book.

Jessica Mary 23:11

Yeah. Have having that fullness there would also kind of weight how she would tilt her head and aim. And and so her aim would probably also be off in that you know she's not able to hit her anchor points and things, then she'd be like, well, how do things feel, depending on which way she's drawing her bow? Because in the book, it's not determined whether she's left or right-handed. So, like, if she were drawing to her left, she might actually have nerve damage across. So the our Here's a fun little anatomy for the podcast. The nerve in your face is connected three points to your ear. So it goes from your temple to your ear, from the upper line of your jaw on your sinuses to your ear, and from the bottom of your jaw to your ear. If you damage that, you experience so much pain on the side of your head. So that's another thing, not just her balance, but if she hurt her inner ear to the point that it's bleeding out, she'd also have headaches. Her sinus, like the sinus on her left side of her face would feel funny, her jaw would hurt. And again, I totally agree. This is, I'm an adult, and I have had these infections, I have had done damage to this nerve myself. That's why I know that that's going to be like that. But I do think it's okay that that level of detail is not included, because if it were, I think we'd be bored.

Julia 24:33

Yeah, I would get kind of annoyed with it, be like, okay, you can move on now. We get it.

Jessica Mary 24:39

We get it. You're hurt.

Julia 24:41

Like move forward.

Jessica Mary 24:44

In this section, also is the rule change, right? He comes on and he's like, if two people from the same district are still alive.

Julia 24:51

Yeah. Like, where did that come from?

Jessica Mary 24:54

Yeah, in the movie, we get outside the arena snippets, and so we have that part, and like we're gonna talk about the movie in much more depth later in this discussion series, but we have that ability to come out of the arena and see Hamish be like, oh, don't you want to root for true love to talk the game makers into maybe rescuing them both? And here, yeah, where the hell does that come from? And of the two people that have two people left in their district, it's just like district one and district twelve, right?

Julia 25:22

Yeah, I thought it would have made more sense if there had been like three sets.

Jessica Mary 25:29

Yeah.

Julia 25:29

If all six people, you know, yeah. Because it's yeah, district one, which is Cato and Clove. Clove. And then then it was Foxface and District Three guy.

Jessica Mary 25:40

Yeah. Book-wise, it feels weird. And also, as producer Rob points out, it's a trap. But they already have the trap, regardless, like without saying, you know, if both of you survive, you can, you know, both win the games. They already have the trap of the feast. So what is the point to the pair winning, other than to go find PETA? Like, plot-wise and uh motivation-wise and writing-wise. Otherwise, she has no point to go find PETA, who has camouflaged himself.

Julia 26:13

And is slowly dying.

Jessica Mary 26:15

And is slowly dying. Uh, but my headcanon now is somebody sent him a cake decorating kit, and that's the only way that he blended himself in. Because icing and mud are not the same thing unless you have made your icing terribly, terribly wrong. Right?

Julia 26:31

Um, yes, they are. No. Did you never make mud pies as a child? Uh. Mine looked like they could be on cake boss, okay? I don't know what you what shoddy mud you're using in America, but Canadian mud. I'm using Freedom Mud? Premium freemium buttercream, okay?

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Okay.

Jessica Mary 26:52

First off, I live in New Jersey. Our water to anything else and humidity ratio is wildly off. So our mud was never solid enough to make love.

Julia 27:06

Yeah. Love that.

Jessica Mary 27:08

PETA, sponsored by Betty Groger.

Julia 27:11

It's so cute. And also, like, if PETA had died, it would have just been boring. There's like, sorry, if um to the game makers, PETA died from an infection, he's just laying there.

Jessica Mary 27:22

Yeah. A slow, painful death. Yeah. Okay. There is commentary on that. I forget if it's in this section or a previous section where they're like, they don't like it when you starve to death.

Julia 27:31

So that was near the beginning, because they talked to that's when they were talking about what the arena could be.

Jessica Mary 27:36

Yeah.

Julia 27:37

Because it was like, oh, that one time that it was cold and everyone froze to death was boring.

Jessica Mary 27:42

Yeah.

Julia 27:43

Okay.

Jessica Mary 27:44

I I do wish that we had maybe gotten like this is obviously like 20 years too late, but maybe split point of views so that we could have seen how Pita had decorated himself to blend in so well. Because when she follows the blood up the stream and she's like, Oh, where is he? Where's Pita? And then she hears him and she's like, I don't see him. And I'm like, he's in the middle of the river on like a bed of rocks, and he is so quote unquote well blended that you don't see him, but you are an excellent hunter. What's the problem? What's the question? What's the question? How the hell does that work? I'm just kidding.

Julia 28:25

I mean, I like it's hard to not picture the movie because in the movie it's like so detailed that it's like strange, and it he's like an actual rock. In this, it's kind of like okay, if you covered yourself with enough mud and were like kind of at the same level as the rest of the mud and like covered yourself with leaves, I could see it. Yeah, I can see it.

Outro 28:48

Are you are you saying Pita used ADHD uh object permanence to blend into the Arita?

Jessica Mary 29:00

It's like they'll never find me now. She looked away once out of 10. Oh. And then we get to basically playing house for a couple of chapters.

Julia 29:13

Okay, yeah. Let's talk about the kissing.

Jessica Mary 29:15

Yeah. My main issue with it is how she's like, I think I should kiss him. And so I do. It's my first kiss. And then she just moves on.

Julia 29:25

My thing was they haven't brushed their teeth. I was like, You haven't brushed your teeth in how long?

Jessica Mary 29:34

You haven't brushed your teeth?

Julia 29:35

You haven't I don't love that.

Jessica Mary 29:36

You haven't showered in how long?

Julia 29:39

Like well, it is the capital. Maybe they have some special potion or something, but regardless, yeah, she does give him a little kiss. And then I just thought it was really strange how immediately kisses are like currency? Didn't love that.

unknown 29:55

Yeah.

Julia 29:56

She's like, I had to convince Pita to eat the soup with lots of kisses. I was like, the fuck? Yeah. Um, he's like lording that over you so he can get kissed. Like, that just doesn't seem healthy. In it just doesn't seem like in his character to have that as like a trade.

Jessica Mary 30:19

Yeah. I mean, later it works for them to like be able to whisper things they know that the capital's probably not picking up on the cameras and things. But yeah, I agree that it doesn't seem like Pita ever really came off as like this confident lover boy.

Julia 30:36

Yeah. Like I'll only eat it if you give me a little kiss. Like the what?

Jessica Mary 30:40

Also, like, bitch, you are dying. Eat some fucking soup, okay?

Julia 30:44

Yeah, why do you think he didn't have an appetite? That just seems strange to me. Oh, that didn't happen. Because he was never throwing Okay.

Jessica Mary 30:51

So um, I don't know if anybody's had also never had blood poisoning, so I have not, but I have routinely been terribly sick. And I know producer Rob has. Have you had COVID yet?

Julia 31:05

Me?

Jessica Mary 31:05

Yeah.

Julia 31:06

Um, I think I was like asymptomatic COVID.

Jessica Mary 31:09

So I didn't eat for like two and a half days because I felt so awful when I got it. I can only imagine how terrible blood poisoning feels, especially if and I quote, you can tell he's got a fever from giving him a kiss, which no you can't. For all she knows, he could have had really bad sunburned lips, and that would have given off the same kind of heat.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mary 31:34

But like the lack of appetite absolutely made sense to me. I'm like, okay, so he's like super duper sick. Cause I know when I'm nauseous, I won't eat anything. I won't eat anything, I won't drink anything, because I'm like, I don't, mm-mm. Nope. It's just gotta bounce right back up. Absolutely not.

Julia 31:50

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I just googled it and lack of appetite is like normal. But I just like to me, it's like you're you're somewhere where you have to keep your strength up. Like, this isn't a I'm just I'm just not feeling well. Like fucking, you gotta try. Like, he's just not trying, and that was confusing, especially when she goes and she tells him that we can both win. He's like, no, no, I'm saying I don't need to eat this. Like, what you're just expecting her to carry you? Is this what this is happening?

Jessica Mary 32:19

I absolutely agree. He's very haughty in these scenes.

Julia 32:23

He's just like, it's like, woe is me. He doesn't even have the woe is me.

Jessica Mary 32:28

He's just like, I'm strong enough, I don't need to eat. And she's like, put the fucking soup in your goddamn mouth and eat it.

Julia 32:37

You like I don't care how much you don't want this, sip it slowly.

Jessica Mary 32:42

Yeah.

Julia 32:42

Like, try. At least try it, anyways. And then and then he does argue with her, yeah.

Jessica Mary 32:48

No, I totally, totally agree. It's like beyond nobody's brushed their teeth in a couple of days. But eat some fucking soup. So he he also argues with her there when when they hear the announcement, like, oh, we've got something that you need, right? And she's like, ah, they clearly have the medicine. Which I think everybody in the arena needs a million other things besides that, but in that moment, it's okay to kind of make that leap to of course they have the medicine. And he's like, Well, you're not going. And she's like, Have you met me? Yeah, it's like, what? Of course I'm going. Like, you you need the medicine, and we can both survive. And he does, he just comes off like, I'll be fine. We can stay here in the cave and wait it out. And it's like, no.

Julia 33:33

Is that just like a instead of him trying to survive, though, like a he doesn't want her to die for him? Because he knows he's like, what's the over-under here? She goes, potentially gets hurt, he's already really hurt, so he knows he's not gonna win. Whereas if she didn't go, he would still be hurt. You know what I'm trying to say?

Jessica Mary 33:56

Yeah, but in this particular moment, if she doesn't go, he dies. And even if she does go and die, he still dies. So might as well try. So she might as well try, is right.

Julia 34:06

But if she doesn't go, then she's definitely stays alive. And his whole mission in life is to stay alive. Now I understand these kisses. This is he thinks this is gonna be the last moments of his life.

Jessica Mary 34:19

He's like, I don't care that. I don't care that we're gonna spend several days at the dentist after this is done, but come here. Kissing's for soup.

Julia 34:34

I wish they like talked about his reaction to the kisses more.

Jessica Mary 34:39

Yeah.

Julia 34:39

It was like she kissed him, and I was like, did he not fall over? Like this should have been shocking to him.

Jessica Mary 34:49

One, it should have been shocking to him, I agree. The other thing is he's described in between as being really, really weak and being like totally full of himself and not needing things. I think the actual act of kissing him might have tipped him over because of like the severity. I I mean like physically tipped him over.

Julia 35:11

Like she does like roll his body. That's one of my favorite moments when she describes rolling his body to the cave, like that's it's pathetic to read. And then you wanted to kiss him after.

Jessica Mary 35:27

Also, isn't he covered in mud at this point? Like mud and leaves and like Yeah.

Julia 35:32

Oh, and then he's like, You can take my underwear off, and she's like, I'm good, actually.

Jessica Mary 35:39

No, can we please talk about this? Because this is the first moment of modesty about bodies in the book, period, right? She comes in, she gets like cleaned up by the capital. She's just naked and surrounded by strangers. Again, when Cinna comes in to like dress her and take measurements, she's naked and surrounded by strangers. There's other parts where she's just like, I'm naked and surrounded by strangers. She's peeing, she knows she's on camera and just going to the bathroom. Like obviously they all are. There's no way in hell that they're like, oh, surely the Capitol will put porta potties in the arena this year. But we get up to this point, and suddenly she's like, Oh no, your modesty, sir. No, you can keep your your underwear isn't like torn around, you can keep your underwear on, and she's like, Oh, my mother and my sister have no problem with people's nudity. I'm like, you haven't until this moment in time either.

Julia 36:29

Yeah, I guess she doesn't have a problem with her own nudity, but a dick in your face is a little bit ideal. She's gonna kiss someone. He's just sitting there, just full dick, full dick out. So then what do we call him penis? It's just right there, just hanging out.

Jessica Mary 36:48

Penis. I I didn't say it this week.

Julia 36:51

Yeah, I didn't I didn't accidentally say it though. It still counts. Okay. Is this him and his delusionalness that all of a sudden he's like Fabio? He's like he turns into a Chad.

Jessica Mary 37:12

I'm gonna die. Take my underwear off.

Julia 37:15

Yeah. But yeah, I wish we had more of a shocker. Like, I kissed him and his face, like, you know, his eyes went wide and he just like froze or something like that. It's just so like I'm giving him kisses. And what?

Jessica Mary 37:32

And why do we think like is this happening with any other district couple? Like, are they also playing into well, Kato and what's her name?

Julia 37:40

We're well, they cuddle in the movie, but yeah.

Jessica Mary 37:43

I think that's Glimmer.

Julia 37:46

Kato. Oh yeah, it's a different, it's a different the girl that has the thing, anyways.

Jessica Mary 37:51

But uh not long after that, she drugs him. Which, like, yeah. She gets the district dymo tap, which is what I'm gonna refer to it from now on as.

Julia 38:01

I mean, it's not like she went out and gathered leaves and drugged him that way. She had help.

Jessica Mary 38:07

Which makes it worse, I think.

Julia 38:11

Why didn't she just leave? Like that's the part, it's not like he's gonna follow you.

Jessica Mary 38:16

Yeah, he physically cannot follow you.

Julia 38:18

You did at no point did you have to drug him, actually. He would have just fallen asleep, and then you get up and leave. It's the whole thing right there.

Jessica Mary 38:26

I don't think she even had to wait for him to fall asleep. He's physically incapable of getting up on his own. As you keep pointing out, he was rolled to the cave. Yeah. He wasn't like half on her shoulder and hobbling himself up there. He can't put weight on that leg. He's he's screwed. She didn't need to drug him.

Julia 38:46

In such a weakened state, and you're drugging someone to sleep. Like, was that a good idea? I mean, it doesn't matter. Rules of the book, here we are.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah.

Julia 38:57

But I'm just like, we shouldn't give weak people sleeping things. Seems like a bad idea to me.

Jessica Mary 39:05

On top of that, the uh the district dymop, the sleeping syrup, is specifically says it's very addictive. I'm like, so why are you giving him It's like oxy. Yeah, why are you giving him hopped up sleepy time oxy?

Julia 39:20

Well, because I mean things can be addictive, like oxy, for example, but if I'm not going out and continuing to refill my prescription, I'm not gonna get addicted to it. Right. But And he doesn't have the resources to get more, potentially.

Jessica Mary 39:34

That's also true. But also almost every drug that is described as addictive in the capital is like immediately addictive. It's not just I had some some morphing, right? Morphine for my surgery, or I had this one time. It's always like I had it once and then I needed it forever. Which I I think is just, you know, part of the superboley of fiction.

Julia 39:56

But is that like a weak constitution of capital people though, and he's stronger and blah blah blah.

Jessica Mary 40:04

I mean that could also be, right? Like he's used to not having things, and even if he did have a dose, it's like the smallest possible dose. Right? The thing that gets sent to them, she's like, it's only enough for one person. And I'm like, why would you even think that it's for you? No one's like, oh, Katniss is obviously having problems sleeping in the arena. We should give this to her.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 40:25

But also being reminded that someone sent it to her, I feel like makes it ten times worse. Because they saw that he is incapable of getting up and following her, and they were still like, you know what? Just to be safe, drug as ass. And right after that, she's like, Who's a bad liar now, Pita? And then she bounces. Why?

Julia 40:45

Because she leaves like quite early. Whatever. You do you, boo. Didn't make sense to me either. Like, why don't you just hang out there for a little bit and sleep next to his body heat? Is it because you felt guilty?

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Because you drugged something.

Julia 41:01

Because you drugged him? It's crazy. Okay, but at the time, she was underwear then.

Jessica Mary 41:08

Yeah, you can't take underwear off of someone that's conscious. It's very important that they are knocked out solid. A public service announcement from the Capitol and all of Katniss's sponsors. So they go to the feast.

Julia 41:21

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 41:22

Quote unquote The Feast, which is where they have all the bags of like people need these things. And she watches Foxface go through and she just grabs the bag and she goes.

Julia 41:29

It's like duh.

Jessica Mary 41:31

Yeah, that's exactly what everybody should be doing is running in and running out. Like, why wasn't that everybody's tactic? Or, like, even if it wasn't everyone's tactic to just run in and run out with what they needed.

Julia 41:42

To me, everyone should have ran at the same time. Like, you what she talks about with like worried that the other districts are gonna take the other people's bags. Like, you would think that you see the bag, you're going for it. Like, as fast you're not just hanging out, yeah, waiting for what? Yeah. Like, I she's the only one with a bow. So what she's gonna run and have Kato like spear her, I guess. Is that what she was worried about? Or like they all meet. I don't know. It's confusing why they weren't all just like that.

Jessica Mary 42:13

Yeah, on top of that, she's constantly talking about the time that Pita has left. Like, I need to get him medicine. I need to get him medicine right away. He's gotta have it. He's clearly dying. He's so infected, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But she still stays there and waits. That part bothered me. So I'm like, just go.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 42:31

Like, you are days into this. There's very few people left. Everybody has something they need. You've already watched somebody dash through. You yourself has said that you're a very good runner. Just go. Stop looking around and just go. Bothered the crap out of me.

Julia 42:45

100%. Also thought it was really dumb. Yeah. Well, Foxface getting it. I always feel really bad that we never learn her name, too. Yeah. I'm just gonna throw that out there.

Jessica Mary 42:55

Only because she shows up multiple times. Like the other ones, the other unnamed attributes that are just like the boy from District 1, the girl from District 3, and things like that. Like, we only see them because she kills them, or they get killed slightly off-camera, kind of thing. But Foxface we definitely see more than once.

Julia 43:14

Yeah. I think it would have been one thing if we like learned her name and she just kept referring to her as Foxface. Yeah. Because like sometimes you just give people a shitty nickname and you're like, fuck that girl. I agree. But yeah, that always made me kind of sad. Yeah. But I always thought, okay, not always, but I thought that Thresh believing her story was interesting. She could have just lied.

Jessica Mary 43:42

She could have. I've always had the headcanon that, like, when District 11 sent her the bread, they also sent him something, and they were like, District 12 girl took care of Rue or something.

Julia 43:53

But he is shocked when she tells him.

Jessica Mary 43:57

Yes.

Julia 43:58

So that would make me think. That he didn't previously know.

Jessica Mary 44:01

Yeah.

Julia 44:02

Also, if I was him, I'd be like, y'all, I'm dying, and you gave her bread. Wow.

Jessica Mary 44:10

Y'all, I ate. Okay. I am hungry and y'all are in trouble. Yeah.

Julia 44:15

Cute when you don't think about the other people that it impacts.

Jessica Mary 44:20

Yes.

Julia 44:23

But when she talks about Thresh and his, she's like, I've never been on that side of the cornucopia where like the planes are or something like that. I'm like, I I wish that was just described better. Because to me, it's like just a cliff and then nothing.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

Yes.

Julia 44:37

And it's like, is he just hanging on the side of a cliff? Like, I'm confused. Yeah. He's just over there somewhere.

Jessica Mary 44:43

That's how it's described early on, too, is that she's like, it just kind of like drops off, so there must be a hill that way.

Julia 44:50

Why do you think Kato wasn't the one to go get the bag and it was Clove? Do you think he was the one that needed something?

Jessica Mary 44:56

Either he's the one that needed something, or because Clove is smaller and faster.

Julia 45:00

Mm-hmm. Because it takes him a long time to get to her. Yeah. Like Thresh is beating the shit out of her. And Kato's nowhere. And it's like, Kato, Kato's calling her her name, but he's really far away, or something like that.

Jessica Mary 45:15

Yeah, like that's actually like a really sad line from Katniss where she's like, Clove died calling out for the only person she thought was a friend.

Julia 45:24

It's a call. Kato does run up and like holds her and does start crying now. Doesn't he? Like, he's actually really upset about it. I don't think so.

Jessica Mary 45:32

I remember Thresh coming in and beating her senseless with a rock.

Julia 45:37

Kato kneels beside Clove's spear in hand, begging her to stay with him in a moment. He realizes futile, she can't be saved. Like, I feel like if he didn't care, he wouldn't have taken a second to beg her to stay alive. Like he would have just gone after Thresh. He drops his weapon too, which makes me think that he cares more about her than is initially allotted or initially spoken about. But also at the same time, like what you're gonna go home and everyone's gonna be like, hey, remember when you fucking ignored your friend that uh could have come home with you?

Jessica Mary 46:12

So Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely read over that line.

Julia 46:16

How much emotion?

SPEAKER_04 46:17

Who who knows how much emotion was in that?

Jessica Mary 46:21

Yeah, and then she's got the uh the needle and she jams it into she goes running and she jams it into Peter's arm, and then there's a moth, and then she passes out.

Julia 46:30

She passes out a lot. She does! Like a weird amount that could be taken advantage of more than it is in a arena where people are being killed.

Jessica Mary 46:43

I think uh her passing out is a sign of the writing at the time where there was a lot of this is how we're going to move forward in the timeline.

Julia 46:55

Oh, the fade to black.

Jessica Mary 46:56

Yeah. And it's like it is excessive, and there are a lot. And some of them make sense. Like here, like she could pass out from exhaustion. She just sprinted back to where this cave was. I can only imagine she's exhausted. Uh there's the possibility that she has a concussion because she's got head trauma. But other times she's just like, and then I pass out. I'm like, from what? I mean, like the tracker jackers also made sense, right? Because she's got the venom and she's hallucinating and it's just like overtaking her system, fine, sure. But other times it's just like, oh, I get to the top of the tree and I pass out. Or I got hit by a fireball and I pass out, but it's like it hit you in the thigh.

Julia 47:37

Yeah, but pain. Yeah, but like I broke my foot one time and then had to. I when I say I broke my foot, I tripped and my foot spun all the way around and was facing backwards. And then I spun it back around myself. But then I sat there and screamed for help for an hour, and my adrenaline was going, and the moment someone showed up, I passed out.

Jessica Mary 48:01

So Right, and like that makes sense. But I feel like when she gets like pushed by the wall of fire and she has the fireball shot at her, she's like, it it's like she got hit by the fireball, she sees the other tributes, and she goes out. We just have that fade to black.

Julia 48:15

That's fair.

Jessica Mary 48:16

Like it's too soon.

Julia 48:17

Yeah, the adrenaline should have kept you awake a little longer. But again, this is the whole the inner ear, yeah, you know, science body stuff.

Jessica Mary 48:31

At least it's something big to get hung up on and kind of get pulled out a little. It's not pulling me out to the extent that I'm like, I'm never reading this book again. How dare you not know exactly what concussive head trauma does to a person. Like, fine.

Julia 48:45

I do have to be honest, the fact that they've never had like, do you think anyone's ever like sex in the arena? Yeah. Well, I hope not.

Jessica Mary 48:54

And I say this because tensions are high.

Julia 48:58

I don't know. I feel like that is a perfect scenario for something like that to happen. Like it's right there. I feel like I definitely think people have for the older kids, absolutely.

Jessica Mary 49:11

But I just also hope not because there's cameras everywhere, and like between these ages of which you are like allowed to, you know, it allowed to be reaped.

Julia 49:22

We're not talking about that. We're not talking about that part.

Jessica Mary 49:26

We're not talking about we have to because the problem No No, no, and I I'm not talking about it in a sexual sense. I am talking about it in a sense that like 18-year-old from district one just murdered a 12-year-old and then goes and has sex. Like, that's the part that is like I understand, you know, the the the trauma. Is he hot though?

Julia 49:48

She also probably just murdered someone from another district.

Jessica Mary 49:52

So I mean, like that's that's the part that is like, God, I hope not, because that means that like they're turned on by some very terrible things.

Julia 50:04

Yeah, but like the careers have prepared their whole life to do like they're kind of ready for the death, and like you see it all the time, you're kind of like exposure to it minimizes the whole idea. I don't know. Definitely people have fucked.

Jessica Mary 50:20

I alright. Follow-up question. If they have, if they have, yeah, did the capital censor that and go to something else, or did they save it for like the capital skinemax channel?

Julia 50:34

Oh, 100% saved. Well, like, I don't think they would have shown it because they talk about how there's never really been a romance, so I don't think they would capitalize. The capital wouldn't capitalize on that, but I do think it would be saved and shown as entertainment later.

Jessica Mary 50:54

Yeah. I don't want that to be true, but I feel like in this particular world, that absolutely feels like something canonical.

Julia 51:04

In this world, that's definitely something.

Jessica Mary 51:07

Oh, yeah, like all the big brother feeds where they were like, yeah, they all hooked up and they're like, Yeah, you can go watch it at blah blah blah.com.

Julia 51:13

I used to watch Jersey Shore all the time.

Jessica Mary 51:19

Jersey Shore does not represent New Jersey. Starting with the fact that they're from North Jersey and they're basically spitting distance from New York, which means they're not New Jersey. I can't wait to have the backlash on that front.

Julia 51:32

Yeah. Anything else you want to chat about? I feel like you had lots of.

Jessica Mary 51:37

I didn't actually this week. The big things that I wouldn't talk about were like the time in the cave, Rue's metaphorical existence, the attitude toward murder, which we just started on because she was like, hey, kill him. I did mention her stuff about Gail vs. Pita, right? Where she's like, he saved me, but why? Like he literally just confessed his love on live TV, but at the same time, I get it, you're in a really weird position for someone to be like, I love you. Stab. Yeah. I think my last note here is that this is the clearest divide between the tributes in this section, because the careers are they don't really have survival skills, they have power skills. They have immediate, in-the-moment fighting, I can kill you, I can end this tournament very fast. But the people that are from the poorer districts, like Foxface and Katniss, and even Thresh, they are used to thinning out their food. They're used to scavenging for it. And so, like, when we have the moment where the food gets blown up, there are at least four tributes that are like, oh, oh well, well, I guess I'll go back to picking like edible flowers in the meadow versus the careers who don't have those skills.

Julia 52:50

I guess we like we kind of talked about it. The last thing I just noted here that we didn't really bring up, but um I guess we kind of did. It's the revenge on the capital thing. Like, there's no way to take revenge on the capital, is there? Then I remember PETA's words on the roof. Only I keep wishing I could think of a way to show the capital they don't own me, that I'm more than just a piece in their games. And for the first time, I understand what he means. I want to do something right here, right now, to shame them. And then obviously she does the roofing. For me, that's the first time that she sees herself as more than what she is.

Jessica Mary 53:28

Like more than the happenstance that has surrounded her. Yeah.

Julia 53:32

Yeah. She's like finally kind of accepting that she's the chosen one.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

She's on the path to the chosen one.

Jessica Mary 53:43

The whole part in mocking Jay when they're like, okay, and you're gonna be on the PR. She's like, why?

Julia 53:53

Why do you what? What do you mean? Why? Why? But no, I I hate that trope. Oh god.

Jessica Mary 54:02

Yeah, oh man, is that that a 16-year-old? We better put them in charge of the army.

Julia 54:07

Oh, I don't even mean that. I mean the self-sacrificing, I'm not more important than anyone else. Yeah, you are actually. You I'm sorry to say, you are more important than that random person. Yeah. Sorry.

Jessica Mary 54:22

But it's weird because she absolutely has that in sense to her family, where she's like, I'm more important than these tributes because my family needs me to survive. But then it comes up to, well, I'm not more important than PETA. PETA's life deserves to be saved because he's a good person and I'm a terrible person. I'm like, well, pick a fucking lane, Katniss. Either you are a terrible piece of shit and you don't take care of your family, or you take care of your family. You're either important in your biome, or you could have just walked into the bloodbath and been done in like chapter seven.

SPEAKER_04 54:53

She's not that special, but she is special, but she's also not that special. But she's so She's special in a different way.

Jessica Mary 55:00

Oh, here's my other note. My one last note is that, you know, she's ready to hunt, but she can't leave because she's caring for someone. Oh my god, where have we heard that before? Katniss's entire existence summed up. She can't go off because she's gotta protect Rue, and then she can't go off because she's gotta protect Prim, and she can't go off because she's gotta protect Pita. And she's just constantly putting herself in a position of being responsible for others, but not for herself.

Julia 55:21

But she's not important.

Jessica Mary 55:22

But she's not important, is right. Yeah.

Julia 55:25

No one's gonna eat without you, girlfriend.

Jessica Mary 55:27

Yeah, your whole district is gonna starve without you, it sounds like so.

Julia 55:32

Seriously. The next pot is the end.

Jessica Mary 55:36

Yeah, next week we finish the book and the week after that we watch the movie. Exciting.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

Look at that.

Jessica Mary 55:41

And then we launch immediately in the book too, which is extra exciting because now we don't have to wait for it to be published because the book itself is 20 years old. Which brings up, again, why do we bother asking you to pause it at the beginning if you haven't read it? Because the book is 20 years old and you've had plenty of time to read it.

Julia 55:56

Like, if you're that dumb that you're like, I'm gonna listen to a podcast where they deep dive into a book and I haven't read it and I get mad that there's spoilers, I hope it's ruined.

Jessica Mary 56:09

Ruined. Get it ruined.

Outro 56:11

Ruined. Thanks for staying up with us. Follow us on Instagram and threads at Booked All Night Pod. Drop a comment to let us know what you thought of today's show and join our Discord server for giveaways, excerpts, and more. It's still in the works, but we're aiming for 100 members. Catch our live author interviews on YouTube and leave a question for our guests on our Discord server. Check out our shop and website at bookedallnight.co. And if you're loving the chaos, don't forget to rate us five stars. Until next time, booklets, stay booked all night.