Sugar Cubes and Strategically-Placed Knots - Catching Fire, 15-21

We've established that underwear does exist in Panem, so why isn't anyone wearing it?

Our ongoing discussion of Suzanne Collins's Hunger Games series continues with even more of Catching Fire. Amidst continuing angst over Katniss's "friend" problem, Jess and Julia discuss communication tropes, how flat characters can be used to effectively portray thematic elements, some speculation on how things might have played out differently if certain characters' political gambits had actually worked, teenage hormones, and... cows. 

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Transcript

Jessica Mary 0:00

Now's the time to say it. Penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. Penis penis. Penis. And then he's got to come back and he's gotta listen to this when he goes to edit the episode. So we'll say it together. We'll go penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. This is gonna be the clip that he gives me for the reel shit. Penis, penis, penis. Penis, penis, penis.

Julia 0:24

Are so ridiculous.

Jessica Mary 0:26

I am so tired.

Julia 0:28

Literally same.

Jessica Mary 0:31

There's definitely parts in here where she's like, I mean, it's possible I could be pregnant. And I'm like, no, bitch, you have to have sex. Maybe they had sex in the arena. Julia's right.

Julia 0:43

No, they've just been sleeping in the same bed for the last two months, and no one's thought anything is gonna happen.

Jessica Mary 0:50

That's how you get pregnant. You just sleep in the same bed. That's that's all it takes. A sex education promo from Booked All Night.

Julia 0:58

The amount of like young kid lit where the male and female main characters like sleep in the same bed and they're like, but as like bros.

Jessica Mary 1:07

I'm like, but are you?

Julia 1:10

Those teenage hormones, though, that would you just slept? Okay.

Jessica Mary 1:14

Yeah, okay.

Producer Rob 1:15

Alright, sorry about that. Uh, you guys ready to go?

Jessica Mary 1:18

I am ready. Are you ready?

Julia 1:20

So ready.

Jessica Mary 1:22

Alright, here we go.

Intro 1:26

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess. I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes. A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shame. Grab your blankets, booklets. It's time to get booked all night.

Jessica Mary 1:45

I'm Jess.

Julia 1:47

I'm Julia.

Jessica Mary 1:48

This week we are continuing our catching fire discussion with a focus on chapters 15 through 21. If you haven't read up to or beyond chapter 21 and you want to avoid spoilers on a 20-year-old book, just hit pause and join us when you are ready. Alright? That was your warning. Here comes the recap. Sugar cubes and strategically tied knots. Chariots, Meet a Few Other Victors. Naked Joanna! I was singing that all day because I'm such a dork. A new Avox, Stay in Love, Make Some Friends, Oddly Sensual Knot Tying, Rippled Circle of Knife Throwers, which I specifically want to talk about that word. Face painting, learning about force field spotting, the hanging of Seneca Crane. I painted a picture of Rue. The lovers both get 12. The quote: I just want to spend every possible minute of the rest of my life like this. The burning of the wedding dress. The only acceptable pregnancy trope.

Julia 2:51

Ha ha ha ha! I saw that Instagram post.

Jessica Mary 2:55

Victors Unite. Capital protest. You just remember who the enemy is. Knock knock sin is dead. Off to the arena. Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. Golden friendships. Not in your condition. Mags once uppies. Should I kill Finnick? Watch out for that. Force field. Are they making out? No, it's just CPR. Force field barbecue, cannon fire, bell tolling, poison fog, mags, saltwater baths, monkeys, hey, trees have water, angry monkeys, and sacrificial morph lies.

Julia 3:27

The ending of that was great.

Jessica Mary 3:29

Yeah.

Julia 3:30

Good job. You should be proud of that one.

Jessica Mary 3:34

I am so proud of that one. I want to open by talking about Finnick, because Finnick is like everybody's baby.

Julia 3:40

I would love to talk about him with you because I also have thoughts, and I want to just put him in a little cocoon and protect him and love him and just pet his face and tell him he's a pretty perfect angel.

Jessica Mary 3:55

Right. He is a pretty perfect angel, and that is why he won his games. Yeah. As explained by Katniss. Yeah, like her our introduction to him is Katniss admitting that he's hot.

Julia 4:08

Which Okay, he's like so hot, you guys.

Jessica Mary 4:12

He's like so hot. Oh my god.

Julia 4:15

But I like didn't really notice. I like never noticed how hot he is. But he's just like, he's like too hot.

Jessica Mary 4:21

Yeah, he's especially hot. Which I think is very important because of the two love interests that she has. She hasn't really been like, they're really attractive. Finnic? Finnic? She's like, yeah, that one. That is I'm gonna untie some, we're gonna tie some knots together later at the training center.

Julia 4:41

Attractive man.

Jessica Mary 4:42

Yeah. It's true. And we learn a couple things. During his games, other tributes were not sent shit. Everybody sent gifts to Finnick. They were like, oh my god, he's hot. So here's food for you, here's medicine for you. They even sent his trident.

Julia 5:01

Which is insane.

Jessica Mary 5:02

Which is insane. They sent the weapon that feels like it should be against the rules. The other part was this line, because there's there's so much in just this introduction of Finnneck. Because of his youth, they couldn't really touch him for the first year or two. But ever since he turned 16, he spent his time at the games being dogged by desp by those desperately in love with him. And I was like, 16.

Julia 5:33

Yeah, and I hate that they had to acknowledge the they couldn't touch him. What do you mean touch? What do you mean touch? Who couldn't touch?

Jessica Mary 5:40

First off, what do you mean touch? And we know later, right? Because it's a series where we know exactly what kind of touch. Yeah. Also, the next sentence where she's like, oh yeah, every time he comes to the games, he's got like four or five lovers and then he goes home.

Julia 5:52

And that is at least among whoever. He's just always doing it.

Jessica Mary 5:57

Yeah, he's just whatever. And then the outfit that they have that his designers put him in, he's draped in a golden net that's strategically knotted at his groin so that he can't technically be called naked, but he's about as close as you can get. Holy balls. At this point, he's like 21, right? He's not that much older than her.

Julia 6:20

He won 10 years prior. He won the 65th ones.

Jessica Mary 6:22

He won the 65th when he was 14, so he's 24. Yeah. So he's in his mid-20s, still not that much older than her. And he's coming over to her like. And all that's really guarding him is a knot. Like a little fig leaf knot. And as producer Rob points out, and I say every episode, there's just no fucking underwear in the Capitol.

Julia 6:57

But apparently in this game, the underwear is just like heavy duty.

Jessica Mary 7:03

Yeah.

Julia 7:04

Because her outfit got destroyed by the fog, but she's like, but my underwear shockingly intact. Perfectly intact. It's just perfect.

Jessica Mary 7:14

Perfect.

Julia 7:14

Which then makes me think so for the rest of this game, she's gonna be walking around naked. I guess in her underwear. They're all in underwear, which we don't really put to anyways.

Jessica Mary 7:23

Continue. Do you feel like it was like an afterthought where like Suzanne Collins puts in the scene where the fog comes in and it ruins the uniform that they're in? Yeah. And she's like, oh wait, I can't just have a 16-year-old with side titty for the rest of the novel.

Julia 7:37

She does.

Jessica Mary 7:38

Yeah, but she does, right? Because she just got her bra sticking out.

Julia 7:41

Just running around in a little bikini.

Jessica Mary 7:43

Yeah, so she's got the little bikini. And Finnick also has a little rope speedo, basically. And he's got to go out in front of thousands of people. And then we come up to Joanna in the elevator and she strips down. And Katniss is like totally uncomfortable, which we already know she's uncomfortable with nudity. But at this point, I feel like that's a really weird trait to have at this point. Like, fine, when she was in the games, that's really weird to look at you naked. Uh we haven't really bonded. I don't actually know if I can trust you, and I don't want like that's very weird. But anytime she's around her stylists, she's just fucking naked. And she's absolutely comfortable that way.

Julia 8:25

Do you think it's more so like the idea of being nude in public is more uncomfortable to her than actually being nude? Do you know what I'm trying to say? Or like the social norm. Like this, like, oh, that's not like correct. So that's the thing that's making her uncomfortable.

Jessica Mary 8:43

I don't know. I don't feel like I have something solid from the text to really make a judgment on that.

Julia 8:52

Because even like where they're talking about how Chaff like kisses her. Chaff? Is that his name? Chaff.

Jessica Mary 9:00

Yeah, it's Chaff or Cedar. Somebody gives her like a big old kiss and she's like, what the fuck?

Julia 9:04

Like, so there's that, and then the Finnick half naked, Joanna naked.

Jessica Mary 9:09

Finnick with his bulgy little nuts.

Julia 9:12

Yeah. And then like Pita like points it out. He's like, Well, it's you. You're just like pure.

Jessica Mary 9:18

And so they're just like bugging her.

Julia 9:21

I never really got that.

Jessica Mary 9:23

I have that whole conversation written down as one of my quotes, actually. So it's they're playing with you because you're so, you know. No, I don't know. It's like when you wouldn't look at me naked in the arena, even though I was half dead. You're so pure. I am not. I've been practically ripping your clothes off every time there's been a camera for the last year. Yeah, but I mean, for the capital, you're pure. For me, you're perfect, they're just teasing you. No, they're laughing at me, and so are you. No, Pita shakes his head, but still suppressing a smile. He's right in that sense, in terms of the capital and the capital's view of like at least heterosexuality and its presentation. She is prude and pure, quote unquote.

Julia 10:08

Yeah. Oh, shockingly, as a 17-year-old, wow.

Jessica Mary 10:12

Right. Crazy. But on the other hand, she has been naked so much in this series.

Julia 10:18

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 10:19

She she's instantly stripped down when she gets to her first games. They strip her down anytime they they need to do anything like design-wise with her. They constantly take off her body hair, which is a whole thing and creepy. And it's weird that she would still have that feeling of being uncomfortable. I could I could understand if she was like just that way about male nudity. And she's like, Oh, that's your penis. I don't want to see that. But like she also feels that way about Joanna, and she's like, Well my god, you're just naked in the elevator. And Pita's just talking to you.

Julia 10:55

See, I thought the Joanna thing was always like a little bit of jealousy.

Jessica Mary 11:01

Oh, like she wants to fuck a 17-year-old?

Julia 11:05

No. I don't think Joanna wants to fuck PETA. I'm saying from an outside perspective, there's this hot naked woman standing in front of the guy that you like talking to him. Your little caveman brain just gets switched on, just like a little bit. So she's more annoyed with that than the actual nudity.

Jessica Mary 11:25

I see what you're saying. You had worded it in a way that it felt like you were saying that Joanna was jealous of Pita and Katniss.

Julia 11:33

Oh, sorry. No.

Jessica Mary 11:34

Yeah.

Julia 11:34

Katniss jealous of Joanna.

Jessica Mary 11:37

I could, I could see that.

Julia 11:38

And so then she's uncomfortable for that reason.

Jessica Mary 11:41

Yeah, I forever have Jennifer Lawrence's face in my head for that awkward. Yeah, where she just like tears holding.

Julia 11:48

I don't know what she's doing with that.

Jessica Mary 11:50

She is so uncomfortable. It's just hilarious.

Julia 11:53

Did you guys ever see the Jennifer Lawrence interviews when she was filming this movie? And she was like, Yeah, now that I'm an Oscar winner, um, everyone like um Josh tried to make a comment about how I said one of my lines, and I just looked at him and went, Do you have an Oscar? I was like, Oh, J-Law.

Jessica Mary 12:17

No, I just love you. But I have seen, and they're resurfacing now because you know Hunger Game is coming back. And I've seen the compilation of the clips where every single press interview with her, like all the red carpet stuff, she's like, Hi, yeah, it's really nice to be here. Do you have any chips? Do you have fries? Yeah, do you have cookies? Like, she's just like, Do you uh food, snacks? You got you got any sugar back there? Yeah, yeah.

Julia 12:43

No, I thought even like chaff kissing her was really strange. Yeah. That one made me me feel really uncomfortable. But like a grown ass man that's the same age as Hamich kissed a teenager right on the mouth, and then Hamich and him laughed about it. I was like, that's not funny, ha ha.

Jessica Mary 13:04

Yeah, it's not funny, haha. It's funny odd. And but I think it's funny odd by today's standard. Like I can I yeah, I can think of plenty of times where my mom's adult male friends call them out did something similar to me when I was like 16 or 17, but these are people that I have known, and so it's a different situation. It doesn't make it better.

Julia 13:31

I know that makes it better.

Jessica Mary 13:34

It does not make it better, but it at least was somebody that I knew and I knew that they were just fucking with me. Chaff is a stranger to her, yeah, and that's just fucking weird. And then he's like, ha ha ha ha ha. You're so pure, right? It's it's weird.

Julia 13:50

Even when Joanna is in the elevator, she looks at Katniss and she's like, Oh my god, that dress that you were wearing, I loved that dress. That was so nice. I wanted to, you know, reach this the screen and rip it right off your back. And Katniss is like, I bet you did with a few inches of my flesh. And I was like, Bitch, these people don't want to kill you all the time. It's not a hundred percent of the time that these people want to murder you. Like, are you uh what is happening? Why are you like this?

Jessica Mary 14:19

Katniss has no idea how to make friends, which is literally a whole section here.

Speaker 2 14:23

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 14:24

That she's just got zero social skills. Thank God she's got Pita, who obviously knows how to play this game and makes allies and everything else. Before we get there, I wanna like come down hard on the the snow is always watching, which I know that we've talked about obviously throughout the series. It's amazing that Katness is still surprised when something comes up that's deeply personal to her. So, one, this man is tormenting a 17-year-old, and that's just weird. Uh, secondly, we know that he knows about her kiss. He obviously knows about the hunting because he saw the kiss, so he knows that she goes outside the district. He knows about her relationship with Cinna, which comes up later, and he knows about Darius, her friend Darius, who tried to stand up at the whipping of Gail and is now an Avox. And she is. I'm not gonna be like, oh, you should not be surprised. But the level that she has where she's like, How did he know? That's the part that I'm like, girl, not a single thing you do it is private.

Julia 15:30

She's like, maybe he put him here to bother me.

Jessica Mary 15:34

Yeah. She just kind of questions it. Like maybe it was just like he like rolled a die and picked a random peacekeeper. Did he? Are you sure? Yeah. Because everything else has been so random.

Julia 15:46

That whole part with the Avox is so sad though. Especially how she is able to like rein it in a little, and then I forgot about like her spilling the peas and like they go and like grab hands under the table. I was crying. I was crying reading that because like I thought, I don't, I don't, I don't even know what I thought. Like, how is she gonna connect with him? And then they finally do, and she actually did it in a smart way. Yeah, I was like, This is so much worse because you were smart about it. Fuck.

Jessica Mary 16:20

And and Effie's comment. Effie's comment specifically about them being a matching pair because they both have red hair.

Julia 16:26

That was gross.

Jessica Mary 16:26

Yeah, that was that was weird.

Julia 16:28

I don't even have a matching set this time. Yeah, those are human beings. I don't know if you know that.

Jessica Mary 16:35

Yeah, Effie. Oh my god, no.

Julia 16:37

I don't know if you know those are humans. It's okay.

Jessica Mary 16:41

It's hard seeing Effie's lines sometimes because I know that Effie has like a journey to go through in this series, and we aren't at the part where she's gonna learn the big bad lesson. But holy shit, these are human beings.

Julia 16:57

Yeah. Well, this whole book is just people keeping things from other people.

Jessica Mary 17:03

And not seeing others as human. I mean, even going the other way, district does not see capital as human. They're like something else and something more cruel. And it it is part of the theme of the series, the us versus them, and how that divides you and how that makes power that much easier.

Julia 17:20

Exactly.

Jessica Mary 17:21

But it is still disgusting to watch. Just it hurts. And that scene, that scene is so depressing where she's like, oh my god, it's Darius. And then I'm like, you can't talk to him, just like you know that you couldn't talk to the girl whose name you don't even know.

Julia 17:36

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 17:36

And she's like, I can't get them in trouble, and then she spills the peas to be like, I'm so sorry.

Julia 17:41

I'm so sorry. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 17:44

Uh and then we have we have two main rules as we head down to training, and that is stay in love, obviously. Oh, okay. And make friends. Yeah. Make friends, to which Katniss is like absol fucking not.

Julia 17:58

Having read this, we know that everyone else knows about the rebels. We know that now. Yes, which I hate. But I hate that Katniss is like in this and she's like, I want to be friends with this person, I want to be friends with that person, blah blah blah.

Jessica Mary 18:16

I want to be friends with the two high-ass motherfuckers from district six.

Julia 18:21

Yeah. And then Pita and Hamich are just there, like, yeah, for sure.

unknown 18:26

Fuck it.

Julia 18:27

Like not even trying to like save her, to make her win, but like, there's so much more to this going on.

Jessica Mary 18:35

Yeah.

Julia 18:36

And she's like trying to make these own plans to save Pete. Like, God, I hate it. Like, I wish you guys just talked to each other. This would have been a more exciting book.

Jessica Mary 18:45

That is incredibly frustrating. I one, that they don't talk that they're like, you're the one we're gonna save this time around. Because I feel like that could be such a huge point of contention between them, where Pita's like, no, we're saving you, and she's like, no, we're saving you, and they're just constantly going back and forth about it.

Julia 19:01

I thought that Hamich telling Katniss that they were gonna save PETA was like a joke. Like it's pretty much just like, yeah, yeah, for sure, Katniss, we're gonna save PETA. Whereas Hamich and Peter in their background, like making all these rebel plans and becoming friends with Finnick and doing all this other stuff, and they're just like playing her, which makes me sad for her.

Jessica Mary 19:24

It does. But at the same time, I think we have seen a lot of evidence that Katniss is not a good actress.

Julia 19:33

True.

Jessica Mary 19:34

And so if if Katniss were to know, okay, we gotta make plans with these specific victors, she'd go over and be like, hey you, I like your mocking J-Pin. That's a pretty cool gold pin you have. Wink, wink, like I feel like she would say wink as she did it, you know, wink, wink.

Producer Rob 19:56

She's not great at it. That's fair.

Jessica Mary 19:59

She's good at being sassy, she's good at survival skills. But part of what makes President Snow a good foil to her is that he also is not a good actor.

Julia 20:10

That's true.

Jessica Mary 20:10

He doesn't, he's not lying when he says these things. He outright says the truth. Lying is not a skill that this man does well. Yeah. So I kind of agree that they shouldn't include her, but there are definitely other things, like Pita and Katness being like, no, I'm gonna save you, because that could absolutely have been a point of contention. It could have raised the stakes for both of them, which is hilarious to think about, given that the stakes are, well, one of you is going to die. Uh, possibly both of you are going to die because it's the Hunger Games.

Julia 20:42

But I also don't think we're giving her enough credit, because even when they are um training for the games with Wirus and Beatty, and she's like, Oh yeah, your district got shut down for a little bit because and we couldn't get that stuff. And they were like, Oh yeah, did your district get shut down too? Like, she does figure out the double speak a little.

Jessica Mary 21:02

A little bit, but I kind of played a lot of that. Yeah, a little late in the game. And I put a lot of that more on Wirus and BD for picking that up. True. Rather than Katnist being like, here is my special code, and I hope that you speak my special code. Flap flap mocking J Wings. Right? Yes, your district shut down. Because PETA, like when he goes in with the other tributes, he immediately has gossip to come back with. He's like, Oh yeah, they call those two nuts and volts, and uh the morphing, like the two from district six are like super addicted to morphing, and they're high as fuck all the time, and which was also a sadly adorable scene where she goes over for like the painting and camouflage, and they just paint faces, paint little squirrels on her faces. Yeah, but it was like this nice little moment of relaxation, despite the fact that they're all gonna die. So she comes back to Hainage and she's like, Yeah, I want the morphling. Morphlings, nuts and vaults, and mags.

Julia 22:01

And he was like No, she doesn't say the Morphlings, does she?

Jessica Mary 22:07

You know, I don't think that she did.

Julia 22:09

No, I think it's just it's mags and wires. Nuts and vaults, yeah.

Jessica Mary 22:14

And obviously, mags comes with Finnic. It's like a done deal. Yeah. What's what's he say to her when she gets back to the room? Because they've been they've been shooting and doing things. So at least half the victors have instructed their mentors to request you as an ally. I know it can't be your sunny personality. What do you mean? What do you mean? I'm a delight.

Julia 22:38

She shot arrows for two minutes and everyone was like, Yeah. So amazing. Was it that good? Was it Was it that good? I hit five things out of the air on one turn. Okay.

Jessica Mary 22:56

It gets me that they have that impression of her, given that they are also victors. Yeah.

Julia 23:02

I mean, but they're old. They talk about how old they are and how embarrassing that is. And I was like, ooh.

Jessica Mary 23:08

Yes, specifically to dress up the old victors. She is like, that was a feeling.

Julia 23:13

I never really put that together though, that like they were dressed up in like a costume until that was mentioned. I was like, oh, that is weird.

Jessica Mary 23:21

Yeah, because like she's got a costume and we're like, yeah, obviously. And Finnix got a costume and we're like, yeah, obviously. And the other old tributes are also there, and not not one of us is like, and they're also wearing strategically placed knots. I hope not. I don't want to think about.

Julia 23:38

But I forget that they are wearing like actual costumes. Like because the movies do it so well that they're not super costume-y, I would say. They don't look super costume-y in the in the movies. That it's like, oh yeah. She's like, yeah, they're dressed up as cows. I was like.

Jessica Mary 23:58

Yeah. If I had watched two tributes go on the chariot in like cow key goos, I would have lost my fucking.

Julia 24:05

Like the blow-up cow offense. Or the blow-up cow suits.

Jessica Mary 24:17

A moo. Okay, sorry, real quick. Do you guys think it's weird that there's horses? Yeah, that they don't have like futuristic cherry.

Julia 24:28

Literally, I was like, she was like, and I pet the horse's neck, and I was like, oh yeah.

Jessica Mary 24:34

What?

Julia 24:36

Why?

Jessica Mary 24:37

What I'm saying. The only thing that I thought was weird about that is like I've got friends that have never been around horses.

Julia 24:43

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 24:44

And I have friends that I have been with when they are around horses for the first time. And horses are like giant toddlers. If you've never been around a horse, they are just giant toddlers.

Julia 24:53

Yeah, I own a few horses. They're pretty funny. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 24:56

Yeah, they're they're ridiculous. But a lot of my friends that have never been on a horse or around a horse are like, oh my god, this huge animal. I'm like, this huge animal just wants peppermint.

Julia 25:06

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 25:07

And knows that you have peppermint and just wants to use their big horsey lips to get the peppermint. That's it. What I thought was weird was that Katniss has only seen horses like once, right? Like it's not really mentioned that they're in the district. She's only come into contact-ish with them at her own chariot at her uh Hunger Games.

Julia 25:26

Yeah. And she's just like petting it.

Jessica Mary 25:28

Yeah, but she's just petting it. And I felt like that was really weird. Like there was no hesitation in that because my experience is that most people, when they see horses, it's a wide berth. Yeah. They're like, hey, 16 miles away from this creature? Absolutely.

Julia 25:42

And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, it can be over there.

Jessica Mary 25:44

Like, yeah. Like, what?

Julia 25:46

I mean, I guess if she had pet it the first time, maybe she would have felt a little better. But yeah, especially having never really been around them, they are huge animals.

Jessica Mary 25:57

I also always imagined them like Clydesdales.

Julia 26:01

Yeah, and they're not. They're like these little horses.

Jessica Mary 26:04

Yeah, like, and in the movie, they've got like, you know, it's like an Arabian kind of height to them. And like, if you at home don't know what a Clydesdale is, look up the Budweiser Clydesdales.

Julia 26:14

Literally.

Jessica Mary 26:15

Literally. They are big, beefy boys, and they're just enormous. But what they have pulling the cat the chariots are horses that you would see in like dressage.

Julia 26:27

There's only two little kids on it.

Jessica Mary 26:29

Yeah, but not this time. No, no. There's also like old people. Yeah. During Hamage's games, there were four of them on it, and that's just a shout-out for everybody to be sad. That is read sunrise.

Julia 26:42

Future sadness.

Jessica Mary 26:43

When it's time to read Sunrise, I think I'm just gonna come in here just to watch your reactions to the horrific events of Sunrise of the Reaping.

Julia 26:51

I can't wait. I'm so excited.

Jessica Mary 26:54

I do like that the tributes, because the tributes again, of the victors, that she spends a little time with that we get to know. Because we do kinda get Chaff and Cedar, but they're kinda they're they're really background. They are, let's see, there's primary, secondary, tertiary, and then there's a word for fourth. Producer Rob, what is the fourth? Quaternary. Okay, so the fourth one is Quaternary. Quaternary. And that's where I feel that Cedar and Chaff are. We very barely get lines from them. Chaff kisses her, and Cedar confirms that the parents of Thresh and Rue are safe, and that's kind of their purpose, and then they're done.

Julia 27:36

That's true.

Jessica Mary 27:37

So it's kind of sad. The other it is sad. But the victors that she does spend time with are the morflings, BD and Wirus and Mags and Finnick. And I like that they each have something to kind of represent for her. So, like, you know, the morflings by the end of the section are about remaining alert because they like they're just they're so high they don't see the monkeys.

Julia 27:59

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 27:59

Or they do see the monkeys. Who knows? Maybe they see more monkeys.

Producer Rob 28:03

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 28:04

And BD and Wirus are about assessing your surroundings, and Mags and Finnick are about the loyalty and sacrifice of your chosen bonds. And I liked that these things are presented here lightly and then become very obvious once we are in the arena. After she gets through this and it's time for them to be judged, she's finally reflecting on how hard this must be for all the other victors because they know each other. You know, there are some people like Hamich and Chaff who have known each other for like what, 25 years plus?

Julia 28:37

Yeah, I think they say their friendship is like 30 years or something like that.

Jessica Mary 28:40

And that's insane. That's a very long friendship. That would be very hard to suddenly be in there and have to kill your friends. This is right before like interviews and things, right? Yes. It's like a day. Yeah. She's got a day before they go into the arena, and this is when it occurs to her that killing your friends might be hard. And they all get judged, they all get their scores, Katniss goes last, and the room is cleaned.

Julia 29:01

Yeah, it's being a giant covered.

Jessica Mary 29:06

Yeah. And it's got, I imagine it has that like sterile hospital smell. Yeah. And she's like, well, what can I do to blow everybody out of the water? And so she hangs an effigy of Seneca Crane. She's like, first thought, best thought, here we go. Tyson news.

Julia 29:24

First thought, just up he goes. What the fuck else was she gonna do? She was like, I guess I'll shoot some more arrows.

Jessica Mary 29:32

Like specifically, it was that she couldn't get their attention by shooting through the force field, so she hung on it. She said it could crane. Well, I can't shoot you. Oh.

Julia 29:45

Unless she like throws the berry juice at him. Oh god, that was so good. Cinematic.

Jessica Mary 29:51

Like chef's kiss. Perfect. Which gives us the wonderful exchange in the room where she's like, Well, what did what did Pita do? And actually, I painted a picture of Roo, how she looked after Katniss had covered her in flowers. Everybody goes, Awww. And Katniss goes, I guess this is a bad time to mention. I hung a dummy and painted Seneca Crane's name on it. And then everybody is like, yo, what the fuck?

Julia 30:19

Pete is like, we didn't even talk about it beforehand. That look at that.

Jessica Mary 30:23

Look same Z. Same Z's. This is great. And then everyone's like, you two are gonna get zeros. You are just have they ever given a zero? Actual. Yeah, have they ever given a zero? And then they both get 12s, which is equally as bad because now it's like, guess who you want to kill? It's them two.

Julia 30:42

Yeah. But they knew how good she was before then. I don't know. To me, the scores in this round are pointless.

Jessica Mary 30:51

Yes.

Julia 30:51

Because we all know what everyone can do.

Jessica Mary 30:53

Yeah.

Julia 30:54

So you s you all asked to be her ally after you saw how amazing she was at shooting yesterday. So are you surprised that she got a good score? I'm not surprised.

Jessica Mary 31:03

One, there's that. Two, there's everybody knows what you can do because we have all the tapes of the games, everybody's been watching, forced to be watching for years at this point. Each victor has, you know, a hobby. A talent. Why were these judging sessions, especially this time, just private? This would have been a prime time for these particular attributes to show off to the others and be like, this is what I'm going to do to you.

Julia 31:29

Yeah. It just missed opportunity.

Jessica Mary 31:33

Indeed. Oh well. I have in my notes that the next section is like their very blatant love, but I want to come back to that because I want to skip ahead to if it weren't for the baby.

Julia 31:47

If it weren't for the baby.

Jessica Mary 31:50

For the baby. The delivery of this, because he like half stutters through it, and he's like, and you know, we got married in secret. We want our love to be eternal.

Julia 32:00

And and it was before the court of quill was announced. Oh, so you were 16, 16 then. Got it. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 32:08

Uh and and you know, we just wanted to be together and our and our love to be forever, and we'd be okay with this if it what boy, spit it out. If it if it weren't for the baby.

Julia 32:23

What boy, spit it out. And he does. He does.

Jessica Mary 32:29

But Katniss's commentary on it is great too, because she's like, there, he's done it again. He dropped a bomb that wipes out the efforts of every tribute that came before him.

Julia 32:41

I like when they go back upstairs and he's like, Do I have anything to apologize for this time? She's like, No, you did great, sweetie. No, it's fine.

Jessica Mary 32:50

It's fine. It's plausible. It's it's plausible. I could be pregnant.

Julia 32:54

Just teenage pregnancy, I guess.

Jessica Mary 32:56

Yeah.

Julia 32:57

It's totally fine.

Jessica Mary 32:58

But like Pete's out there playing chess and everybody else is learning to play checkers.

Julia 33:03

Seriously. Like, I was trying to think about this as like if this was happening in the real world.

Jessica Mary 33:09

Oh, like if your country were gonna host the Patriot games.

Julia 33:13

And s uh you know what? Never mind. I was gonna say, and a woman was pregnant and then they everyone wanted to kill her.

Jessica Mary 33:20

Yeah, that's never happened in history, right? Woo!

Julia 33:24

Do you think there would be as much of an outrage?

Jessica Mary 33:26

I think this works on so many levels. First off, it shocks the audience, which is like very good, Pita. Shock the audience. But even if they manage to get the games canceled, which obviously will not happen. No. If in a few months everyone's like, how come Katniss isn't showing? The only answer is we lost the baby due to the stress of possibly going into the arena. Or even if Katniss does win the games, the same thing. I lost the baby because of the stress of being in the arena. Which would then further call into question in the capital, right? Because it's already in question and it's been in question in the districts for forever. But the capital is not there yet. They haven't seen, they haven't been attached to these tributes. And that's the big part here is that they have that celebrity relationship. Yeah. Right? Where like everybody loved Elvis and then he died and they all cried, kind of thing. The same thing most Harry Potter fans had with Alan Rickman. I can't believe I almost forgot his name. Where like we didn't know him personally. There's no spoilers in real life, Julia. But now that audience has a connection. They have they have favorite victors. They have people that they've seen at the games, they have these memories, the the way that we have favorite players on our local teams or national teams. And for the first time, quote unquote, it affects them. And so now they're like ready to riot. And they do. After this press conference, after all of the victors stand up and hold hands and arms and things, the broadcast is not cut off fast enough. And there's a riot. There's a protest outside, and they're watching it from the top of the hotel that they're at. And they're like, Do you think it'll mean anything? No, of course it won't mean anything. It's the Capitol. And I wonder how does the series play out if at this point Snow backs down on the games?

Julia 35:26

Like he stops trying to make everything worse.

Jessica Mary 35:30

Yeah, like he acquiesces to the mob and there's no 75th Hunger Games.

Julia 35:36

Oh, like he actually cancels the games.

Jessica Mary 35:38

Yeah, like how would that even play out? It's like Snow is very terrifying and overreaching. Omnipresent, thank you. Overreaching also. But like everything that he does makes everything worse.

Julia 35:57

Yeah, he's squeeze he's killing the bird. He's squeezing the bird too too tightly. Yeah, I think that he guess he does just make it worse. Like he he does just like help the ball continue to roll down the hill faster. Even if he didn't cancel the games, but was just like, you know what? Katniss is pregnant, and we'll just pull her out. She can just we'll just pull her out. Like, I think that would have been an even bigger twist. Like, how how would they have even like come back from that? Then Pita goes in there alone? Like, that's more interesting, to be honest with you.

Jessica Mary 36:37

And then Katniss has to mentor, essentially, and get sponsors and be like uh and then it is time to go into the arena.

Julia 36:47

Finally.

Jessica Mary 36:48

But is it not quite?

Julia 36:52

I do forgot that they sit on that roof for an entire day. I thought that was really cute. Just the two of them just being in love.

Jessica Mary 37:00

And he's just like, I just want to spend every possible minute of the rest of my life with you.

Julia 37:05

I just want to play with your hair. And I just want to love you. And she's like, I don't feel guilty about this at all.

Jessica Mary 37:12

And she's like, I love you too, friend.

Julia 37:16

As like bros. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 37:18

Oh, friend, you are such a good friend to me. Have I mentioned that you are a friend lately? A friendly friend that friends friendly.

Julia 37:25

I thought it was funny that she was never like, yeah, it was a little awkward in the mornings.

Jessica Mary 37:30

Right, he's 17 years old and slept with a girl in his bed and didn't wake up with a boner? Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Julia 37:38

Guys.

Jessica Mary 37:38

Solid.

Julia 37:40

I don't know if you know what happens. But fun fact. He's called penis for a reason. So then we go into the games.

Jessica Mary 37:51

Anywho, it's time for Cinna to die. And she's in the tunnel. She's in like the lift thing, and it's I lift my chin, holding my head high the way he always tells me to, and wait for the plate to rise. But it doesn't, and it still doesn't. I look at Cinna, raising my eyebrows for an explanation. He just gives me a slight headshake, as perplexed as I am. Why are they delaying this? And then we find out why, and it's because they're going to send in three peacekeepers, two to hold him and one to beat him to a pulp, and then they drag him out, and the last thing she sees is all that's left are the smears of blood on the floor.

Julia 38:23

Time to go fight! Yeah, time to go fight. Bye! Bye! I don't even think she like tells I mean by the end of chapter 21, she hasn't even told PETA about this yet.

Jessica Mary 38:34

No. I feel like when they met up and they finally got off of like the center bus stop, cornucopia bus stop, that she could have been like, they beat the shit out of Cinna before they sent me up.

Julia 38:43

Yeah, is Porsche okay?

Jessica Mary 38:44

Yeah, is Porsche okay? Did they do the same to Porsche?

Julia 38:47

Like Are you okay?

Jessica Mary 38:48

I would be wondering if a similar thing happened to Pita.

Julia 38:52

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 38:52

Or even Finnick, did they beat anybody up before they sent you in?

Julia 38:55

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 38:56

Because another thing that she notes constantly is that where her last games, her designers were around her all the time. Yeah. This game, they aren't.

Julia 39:05

Yeah, I thought they weren't around because they're like older though. Because even Hamich is like, Effie, you can't walk them to the training center.

Jessica Mary 39:12

Yeah.

Julia 39:13

So I thought that's why they weren't around as much. But even like, I guess it is noted that they aren't around as much either. Like she does comment on that. She's like, I don't I don't know where they were. They weren't here. It's a weird thing to bring up, but okay.

Jessica Mary 39:27

It's a weird thing to point out in the writing specifically.

Julia 39:31

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 39:32

Because like just their lack of being there could have been something to kind of find on a reread. But the fact that Katniss points it out a couple times where she's like, they're not here. I wonder why they're not here. I mean, obviously they are, at the very least, Cinna is involved with the rebellion. But do we know that Portia is?

Julia 39:53

You know, Portia and Cinna worked so closely together. It would be hard to not. Especially with Katniss's outfit being what it was. Like Cinna didn't do that on his own. Portia put Pita in a tux. That wasn't hard.

Jessica Mary 40:08

And his tux didn't light on fire and become a bird.

Julia 40:11

No, it was just a normal wedding tux.

Jessica Mary 40:13

That he knew.

Julia 40:15

What he opens the jacket and he's like, it's a boy! Yeah. It's like a gender reveal lining. Sorry. Yes.

Jessica Mary 40:26

Just imagine Snow's like super pissed off at them. And so instead of having the night to sleep and then go into the arena, he just sends everybody into the arena in what they were wearing in the interviews. And he's like, swim in a wedding dress, bitch.

Julia 40:44

Do you remember that? When they were like, I do not used to let them bring suitcases of clothes to like change into. And then one year they were like, just kidding, you're jumping in the water on what you're wearing. And that's what you're wearing the whole time. And they didn't let them think. No? Okay.

Jessica Mary 41:02

I do not, but that's hilarious.

Julia 41:04

Yeah. And there was guys wearing like nice suit jackets and shit, and they're just walking down the beach and like they're oh yeah, it was like a whole thing. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 41:13

Yeah, that would be hilarious for the Hunger Games. There's water everywhere. There's stone jetties. There's a beach, a jungle, the golden corn ucopia, and I swear to god, I will stop that movie again if it looks like a fucking bus stop. And I remember it looking like a fucking bus stop. So I'm gonna stop the movie again. Yeah. I'm gonna stop that movie again just to complain about this fucking bus stop.

Julia 41:35

Is this one actually? I think it's actually golden, this one though.

Jessica Mary 41:38

It might be. I don't really remember, but I do remember. We are, and then I'm gonna be so mad about it. Just the same. And this sets up the dangers to be regional, which we confirm in this section because the fog kind of hits that wall. I was like, oh, it can't come this way. Uh and it's confirmed that this arena is smaller than the other arenas. Yeah. And we learned that by going around the force field after PETO walks into it.

Julia 42:09

With a knife.

Jessica Mary 42:10

With a knife.

Julia 42:11

Yeah, he hits it with the knife, right? And then it like kills him. Which, like, I'm surprised that Finnick was like allowed to bring him back. I guess there was nothing really from stopping him from doing that, but Yeah, there's nothing really stopping. The only time like they And then, like, rule technicality, technically PETA died in the arena, so he should be able to get out.

Jessica Mary 42:33

That yeah. Should have been a lawyer. That scene is going to bring me back to their blatant love. Excellent. Yes. So he strikes the forest field and gets thrown back, and he's he's dead, he's got no pulse. And Finnick immediately goes over him because he's like, I know what to do, because I live in a district where there's a shit ton of water, and we're used to doing CPR. And at first, Katniss's reaction is to kill him. She's like, I'm gonna No, don't touch him. I'm gonna kill you. And then she's like, Oh my god, he's kissing this.

Speaker 2 43:07

That's so funny. I love that part.

Jessica Mary 43:10

Shit, why is she kissing him? You are the daughter of a healer, you've never seen CPR. And so it takes her like a page and a half to get to the point that it is CPR. And he comes back and she's like, You died, you died, you can't do that to me. How dare you? And it it's like, how do you not realize? What did she love? That you have more than friendship feelings for this boy.

Julia 43:36

You mean her sleeping with him and having zero nightmares and just being and feeling so safe with him wasn't enough of a clue?

Jessica Mary 43:45

And wishing he was there all the time because she felt so safe with him. Yeah, that wasn't a clue. Uh obviously, we know that Peter loves Katniss. That's just canonical, he admits to that. And he always calls her beautiful and perfect, and I want to spend all the the Moments with you, and they talk about like the wedding toast where they go back and make their own toast in District 12, which oh house. That's a toast. So yeah, like she freaks out, he comes back, she's like sobbing. She's like, I can't believe you you died, you died in front of me, and I I can't handle that. You're not allowed to do that. And I'm like, how do you at this point still not have any anger? Yeah. She's like, you can't do that. Friend, just like immediately back up, like, girl.

Julia 44:29

I know it's hard. It's hard to read. It's hard to read someone so unself-aware.

Jessica Mary 44:36

And I understand their relationship is built around shared trauma. Yeah. So it's it's complicated. But those feelings are there, and I'm getting tired of you being like, you're just a friend, because he's obviously not.

Julia 44:53

She at least stopped like randomly kissing him all the time, which made me feel worse when she would like initiate those. I was like, ew.

Jessica Mary 45:02

I mean, it's only been a day in the arena, but they at least have like some toothpaste in their mouths so they're allowed to kiss at this point instead of like when they were like in there for a week. And they were like, I'm gonna put my teeth inside your tongue. Yeah. Gross. Taste my my bacteria and squirrel. And she was like, like she was legitimately terrified that she had lost him. Him specifically. Not an ally, not the friend from District 12, but Pita Malark.

Julia 45:34

What was I gonna do without him? I do like how she even she has the conversation with Finnick though. It's when she climbs up the tree.

Jessica Mary 45:43

Yeah, when she climbs up and comes down.

Julia 45:45

And um, he's like, What? No one's uh holding hands. He's like, no one made their way into this uh arena by chance, except maybe PETA. And she's like, Oh, he knows how amazing he is too. Awesome. And then I was like thinking about it, I was like, Yeah, PETA kind of is there by chance.

Jessica Mary 46:03

Yep.

Julia 46:04

Oh, what's that gotta be like?

Jessica Mary 46:06

If they hadn't threatened to eat the berries, PETA would have bled out.

Julia 46:11

Yeah, well, I mean, if he if PETA hadn't had Katniss helping him, he would have died. Like he he would not have won on his own. So I was like, oh, I never really thought about it like that. He's like the trophy participant.

Jessica Mary 46:28

What's a terrible fucking thing to be the trophy participant in?

Julia 46:36

He's like, I do the same thing. You're the token, the token participant, the token normie.

Jessica Mary 46:40

You know what he is? He's he's like the Olympic alternate that suddenly finds their way. Yes. And they're like How did you get here? Okay, or like the second one, you know, where like somebody on the team quits and they're like, okay, well, you're the new alternate, and you're like, uh, I am Yeah. Everybody else is D1, PETA's D2.

Julia 47:01

Poor Pita.

Jessica Mary 47:02

Not quite there. Poor PETA. Oh wow. Picking on him so bad.

Julia 47:06

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 47:07

But after I did love that conversation when she does come down and he is like, oh, no one's holding hands. Imagine that.

Julia 47:16

Well, and then she's ready to like kill Finnick.

Jessica Mary 47:19

Immediately. Immediately. So she the immediately Pita's like standing in between them.

Julia 47:32

She's like, he's just standing in between us, like he doesn't even know. I'm like, bitch, he fucking knows. He knows what you're thinking right now. He's standing there so you can get your shit together.

Jessica Mary 47:42

Because everybody knows around your psychotic ass, since you two were five. There's no way in hell he doesn't know what you two are fucking thinking. Okay, so she and Finnick meet up in the bus stop. I refuse to call it the cornycopia. It looks like a fucking bus stop. And he signals to her with the golden bangle. He's got Hamidge's golden bangle. He's like, Oh, we're allies. We're bros. And and she's like, maybe. And like her immediate thoughts are, I should kill him. I should kill him in his sleep, kind of thing. And they have like a little back and forth uh where she's like, Well, I I wanted Mags, and he's like, Well, you've got excellent taste, right? Because Mags comes with me and we'll now she's a backpack. Uh I can't leave Mags behind. She's one of the few people who actually likes me, which will come up later and be, you know, heartbreaking. Yeah. And then Mags basically like signals to him, like, Uppies. Right? She please. She clamps the handle between her gums and reaches her arms up to Finnick, and he tosses his net over his shoulder and hoists Mags on top of it. And she's like, Little backpack.

Julia 48:48

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 48:48

I saw I saw a clip of an interview with him, and apparently the actress who played Mags they had to keep redoing the shoots because she kept giggling every time she was being carried, so she'd be like, Wee.

Julia 49:01

Well, I mean, it's this little old lady and this grown, beautiful man is carrying you. Yeah, I would be giggling too. Okay. I would be giggling too.

Jessica Mary 49:11

I know most listeners of the podcast never got to meet my grandmother, but I know that if she was being carried by Finnic Odair, she'd do the same fucking thing. Katniss has this line after all of this. We're starting to to die down on the chaos of the opening of the games, and we're making some sort of refuge. And it's since I got up this morning, I have watched Cinna beaten to a pulp, landed in another arena, and seen PETA die. Still, I'm glad Finnick keeps playing the pregnancy card for me, because from a sponsor's point of view, I am not handling things well. And this is not long after these lines. Despite the bangle, I should just get it over with and shoot Finnick. There's really no future in this alliance, and he's too dangerous to let go. If worst comes to worst, I can always kill him in his sleep.

Julia 50:01

See, this is where I come back to. It probably would have been helpful to include her in the rest of the plans, because think of all the energy she is expending trying to keep herself alive from someone who doesn't want to kill her. At least not right away. Like, if sh I feel like if she had gone in there and they were like, yo, Phenix on your fucking team, bro.

Jessica Mary 50:24

Right. Phoenix on your side, or if they at the very least said anybody with gold is your ally. That is something that we set up. But they don't even tell her that. No.

Julia 50:34

Well, she doesn't even see PETA's necklace until she's in the arena. Isn't that weird? She's like, oh, it's like it's okay if I took your mocking J symbol, right? That was weird that they didn't say goodbye to Effie because they like jumped into the elevator and then other people couldn't get to the elevator because there was like a big mob. And then they're not able to say goodbye to her. I thought that was weird that that was even like brought up.

Jessica Mary 50:59

I think it was brought up to echo what happened when they first got reaped. That they don't get to say goodbye to anybody. They are literally just getting shoved in. And it's very specifically happening to them because the other victors don't seem to be getting like manhandled by other people to not say goodbye to people. This is specifically, I'm gonna get rid of these two.

Julia 51:24

Yeah, they're just trying to make their lives even worse.

Jessica Mary 51:26

Yeah.

Julia 51:27

It's like microaggressions. Is it micro? But in the big picture of this, yes, microaggressions.

Jessica Mary 51:34

Okay, alright, fine. In comparison to a nuclear bomb, yes. I suppose forcing you onto an elevator is a microaggression. What a quote.

Julia 51:44

And then, yeah, then they're running through the mist.

Jessica Mary 51:48

Oh god, yeah, the blistering fog. The blistering fog. But like it comes in and she's not even caring about it. She's like, oh, well, fog, okay, well, that'll that'll be weird. It fucking burns and blisters, and she's waking everybody up. Mags is immediately on Phenix back, and Pita is like still not rebounded from, you know, getting electrocuted. And also, he still has his prosthetic leg. Now, in the movies, we did not include the prosthetic leg, so we can all run straight forward. But this creates the issue. They now have technically two burdens in the arena that these people are not up to speed, that they can't defend themselves at the very least right now. And they get out of the fog, and this is the point where we get the confirmation that uh the dangers are regional because the fog comes up and it looks like it's just hitting a glass wall. And then, just to make everybody sad, because I had to reread it, so everybody else gets to listen to it, what happens next is so fast, so senseless, I can't even move to stop it. Mags hauls herself up, plants a kiss on Finnick's lips, and then hobbles straight into the fog. Immediately her body is seized by wild contortions and she falls to the ground in a horrible dance. I had to be sad about it, you have to be sad about it.

Julia 53:07

I remember reading it for the first time and not understanding like why she would even, you know, go into the arena in the first place, and it's like, oh no, you were just a placeholder, so that someone else didn't have to die. And like you died when the time was right, and I guess the time was right day one. Like, you if you know you're gonna die in the arena, you know you're gonna die in the arena. So might as well get it over with right off the bat.

Jessica Mary 53:37

Yeah. I also want to bring up a writing point. I do love this description because of the word dance, which is something that we don't tend to equate with pain or death. And it's really an example of like the right word.

Julia 53:52

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 53:52

Like if you ever sit in creative writing classes, we're always talking about there is the right word, the right verb, the right description, as opposed to like a 20-word sentence. And here, like this horrible dance. Yeah, you can imagine any horrible dance in your head, and it would probably fit with the seizure that she's having in this moment. Yeah. I felt like that was that was just really good writing.

Julia 54:14

Really good writing, really impactful imagery, yeah. And not being able to, like, uh, in from Katniss's perspective, like uh mourn the moment. Like they have to keep going. Yep.

Jessica Mary 54:26

And immediately into the salt water where they gargle and open their eyes under salt water.

Julia 54:30

Pull it up through their nose. That one to me, I was like, no.

Jessica Mary 54:35

That all sounded horrific. Truly horrific to feel. Yeah, they literally get salt in all of their wounds, including their emotional ones, because as you said, they don't get they don't get to mourn. No. So in this world, in this story, it makes sense not to mourn. But also, in this time frame of children's lit and young adult literature is included in children's lit, it was typical not to take the feeling through the text.

Julia 55:04

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 55:05

So, like, even her nightmares throughout this section and the previous sections are not relative to things that were coming out at that time.

Julia 55:14

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 55:14

A lot of things were being written, I I would say they were being written at the audience where people didn't have a full understanding of writing for children. And this is post-Harry Potter, where we started understanding more about the voice of children's literature. But it was impactful on the world and on the craft of doing that. Yeah. And then the monkeys appear because there's absolutely no rest whatsoever.

Julia 55:40

No, they're going the wrong direction. They haven't figured the clock out yet.

Jessica Mary 55:44

We haven't figured out the clock. Oh, spoil. That is a spoiler. Oh yeah. 20-year-old book. Whatever. They haven't figured out the arena yet. The arena met. Yeah. TikTok on that, guys. Tick too.

Julia 55:56

The whole ending though, where it's like, and then the Morphling came out of nowhere to hug the monkey. I was like, what? I don't remember that.

Jessica Mary 56:05

Yeah, I don't remember them popping out. To be fair, a lot of like my memory of it is the movies. Well, yeah. Like there were a few things. I know we did the pre-this whole series talk, and I felt so vindicated when I was like, ha ha, the boob job comes at the end of the first book. But this is something I I don't remember at all. I don't remember the morphlings appearing in the arena.

Julia 56:32

Yeah, I thought they were killed off off scene.

Jessica Mary 56:35

Yeah, I thought they they went in like the very the first battle.

Julia 56:39

Yeah. The one was, I'm pretty sure, right? I don't know. And the other one I don't remember now.

Jessica Mary 56:43

I didn't write it down.

Julia 56:44

That's fair. I mean it doesn't matter.

Jessica Mary 56:46

But this one is the comes out of no female morphing. Yeah. And just flings herself into the monkey's path and it bites her.

Julia 56:53

And then PETA can escape.

Jessica Mary 56:54

Yeah. And so it's like, okay, fine. Were the Morphlings also allies?

Julia 56:58

This is one thing that I don't understand in books, is like Katniss has the arrow. She's like, I wouldn't have time to shoot the arrow, but I would have time to throw myself on PETA. The one thing moves faster than the other.

Jessica Mary 57:15

Well, one thing does move faster than the other.

Julia 57:18

And then somehow the morphling has enough time to stand in between PETA and the monkey, even though it's happening so fast.

Jessica Mary 57:25

Have you ever shot a bow?

Julia 57:26

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 57:27

Were there pulleys on the bow or were there no pulleys on the bow?

Julia 57:30

Uh compound. There were pulleys on the bow.

Jessica Mary 57:32

Okay.

Julia 57:34

I guess okay. Okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. It's pulling. But it's Katniss. She's special.

Jessica Mary 57:42

Which is what I was going to bring up next. Is we literally saw her in training where she's just like speed shooting. And that's something where, like, even in her hunting, she's she's fully prepared. She's always prepared. She can just get this, get it knocked, get it aimed, and go. And in this moment, she's like, I don't have time. I just I just don't have time. I can't do it. I can't even. Thank God there's a morphing here ready to sacrifice themselves. Kitty! Yeah. My my headcanon for this moment is that that high as fuck morphing was just like, what a cute kitty!

Julia 58:21

I want to pet it. Kitty! I love it. My dogs all just got up when I said that.

Jessica Mary 58:29

Do you have anything else to add?

Julia 58:32

It's just more frustration of how narrow Katniss's entire focus is. It's I'm just focused on myself. I'm just focused on this. I'm just focused on the next two feet in front of me. And it's and it's just frustrating to read someone who at no point really expands their focus, either on themselves or on the people around them until it's really shoved in her face.

Jessica Mary 58:56

And you're like, I think I definitely agree with you on the introspective part of that. Because Katniss's archetype is a type of caretaker where she is constantly trying to provide for other people and keep them safe. But the introspection and the lack of it makes me want to reach through the book and strangle this girl frequently. Join us next week when we finish reading Catching the Fire. And the following week for movie night, remember that movie episodes are meant to be played with the movie on. The Hunger Game series reread is going all the way to the theatrical release of Sunrise on the Reaping in November 2026. And that movie night will be a little different because we're not assholes. And could you imagine heading to the theater with your podcast equipment? Pause it!

Julia 59:46

Pause it!

Jessica Mary 59:48

Pause it!

Julia 59:49

There's a corner copia! Pause it! There's the bus stop!

Jessica Mary 59:52

Mm, it's a bus stop!

Producer Rob 59:59

You better not be in this type of love!

Outro 1:00:02

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