What Do They Do With Disabled People?: Mockingjay, 1-7

New district, who dis?

We've made it to the final book of the original Hunger Games trilogy, and oh gosh, oh golly, oh my, do we have thoughts. Jess, Katy, and Julia plumb the implications of District 13's way of life, outline fanfiction, propose conspiracy theories, and examine some fascinating juxtaposition of childish behavior against adult responsibility. They even manage to get past Chapter 3... eventually.

It's our first episode of Suzanne Collins's Mockingjay, and we're definitely staying up too late. 

We volunteer as tribute--repeatedly. We're diving into the world of The Hunger Games: all 5 books, all 6 movies breaking down the world, the characters, the feelings, that weird thing with the pearl, our hatred for Gale, our love for Haymitch, & more. All leading up to the theatrical release of Sunrise On The Reaping this November. 

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Transcript

Jessica Mary 0:36

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess.

K. Leigh 0:42

I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot takes.

Jessica Mary 0:47

A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shade. Grab your blankets, booklets, it's time to get booked all night. Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot takes meet craft notes and nobody gets enough sleep. We're your hosts, Jess. Kaylee. Julia! Tonight we're starting to dive into Mocking Jay, the final book in the Hunger Games trilogy, and we are focusing on chapters one through seven. Mocking Jay published in August 2010, but if for some reason you haven't had a chance to read the book in the last 16 years, here is your spoiler warning. Hit pause, read up to at least chapter 7, then come back and hit play. We will be here with our lovely discussion. This discussion series will include the prequels, Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, and Sunrise on the Reaping, and will lead all the way up to the theatrical release of Sunrise on the Reaping in November, which feels a really long time away, but actually is not because time is an illusion. With that said, you can also now leave us voicemail, because Buzzsprout updated that. So if you click leave us fan mail, you can actually just leave us a little voice message. It's very cool. So click that and leave us some fan mail.

Julia 1:52

I'm gonna leave us fan mail voicemails, and I'm not gonna say it's me, but I'm gonna do crazy accents.

Jessica Mary 1:59

Oh that's so cute. Uh so it does require that you put in at least a name and an email. So I can't wait to hear these and see what these names and emails come up as.

K. Leigh 2:10

Making Google emails is free.

Jessica Mary 2:13

Yeah. Who just makes Google emails? Just go find like a one-time use BS pfff whatever. Anywho.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Anyway.

Jessica Mary 2:21

Now for the recap without the tech lesson. So we have My House is Gone, which gave me some sunrise feels. We'll get to it when we get there. I thought I saw a rock, but actually it was a skull. Hey, the cat's alive. Where's the goat? Gross! A rose! The underground bunker core. Schedules? Psh, fuck schedules. PETA's Alive! The world's worst scripted interview. Can't we all just get along? Haman just force sobriety. The games are still on, they are always on. Gail is intense. A weird, weird moment with the Pearl. Prim's all growing up because gestures vaguely. Nutritional science. I get to kill snow. Moving on up. Room 3908. Gail's aggressive schema. The cringiest propaganda ever attempted. Voice activated pageant props. Let's all say one nice thing about Katniss. I can't believe you didn't rescue PETA. I can't believe you let him out of your sight. Finnick? Maybe some pants. Katniss has a face for radio, apparently. What's the best form of government? The hospital. Katniss the Messiah. That better be useful. And if we burn, you burn with us. Did I leave anything out?

Julia 3:32

Every time you do this, it's just honestly remarkable. I just want to recognize you for this really quick because it's fantastic every time. And I truly look forward to what you're gonna say. Not sarcasm. Just wanted to say it's fantastic every time.

Jessica Mary 3:51

I just it's my notes. I take good notes, y'all. Alright. Let's begin in chapter one when she is walking through the ruins of her house.

K. Leigh 4:02

I just want to say before we start off with chapter one, so much happened in these seven chapters that I don't think we're gonna be able to get through everything in just an hour.

Jessica Mary 4:14

I have like 13 pages of notes.

K. Leigh 4:17

There's so much.

Jessica Mary 4:18

There's so much. And I recapped a lot of this. Normally I have lengthy notes because I have so many quotes, and I'm like, I want to address this and the language there, and it was so beautiful. No, a lot of this is bullet points, and it's it's insane how much there was in these seven chapters. And also, I thought that the U Burn Weeburn speech was much later. I thought we wouldn't get to it until the next section of chapters. We open in this really great echo back to book one, because book one begins in the bed with Prim, and she's waking up, it's the day of the reaping. And here we are, she is walking through the ashes of that very same bed and making the note that this is where I was just what two years ago? Right before I woke up and volunteered for my sister, and like all of these things have brought us to this point, and it's insane, really, what has brought her to this point.

Julia 5:17

I did not understand why she was there. Like, okay, I understood she wanted to be there. I did not understand how she was allowed to be there, and I didn't understand what the motivation was for like coin to allow her to be there.

Jessica Mary 5:38

I feel like allowing her to see it has the same effect of what happens in the hospital, where they're like, Well, they told us that you were alive, but we didn't necessarily believe it, but like you're here now, and I can see that that is true. And I feel like it's probably for the same effect that maybe you don't believe that District 12 is in fact just ashes and nothing else at this point, and you need to see it to fully understand the momentousness that this entire district, not just the scene, not just this little section of it, but the entire thing is completely gone.

Julia 6:15

Yeah, but like they have video cameras.

Jessica Mary 6:17

They do. And you know, I don't know, the capital and Pan M as a whole is like famous for like giving you straightforward video that hasn't been doctored.

Julia 6:26

Well, yeah, I guess. It was just like, I just I risked the security and the protection and this huge thing so I could go look at some ashes. It just seemed silly to me.

K. Leigh 6:39

I think it's you know, when you're there, the the impact is a lot more than you know, just learning about it and seeing it on TV.

Jessica Mary 6:48

Yeah.

Julia 6:49

Yeah, but for the amount that like coin later on is so restrictive.

Jessica Mary 6:54

Gives her a bunch of shit.

Julia 6:55

Restrictive on what her movements are gonna be, it just seems a little unreasonable that like even before she decides to be the mocking jay, that they're like, no, no, you can go down there by yourself and do a little tour. And Snow doesn't have video cameras everywhere. Like, I don't I don't know. To me, it was like so far from what we've been talking about.

Jessica Mary 7:15

So I wonder if, on the note that you know, they're trying to get her to be this symbol and to be the mocking jay trademark, right? That they're letting her have this little bit because she's also just kind of like skirting around the schedule and not really doing what she's supposed to at this point. And we see what happens to people later on if they break the rules. And and like it's even the simplest of rules, right? We see that with the prep team, which we'll get to later, where she finds them and they've obviously been they've had like the shit beat out of them, and that it was taking an extra slice of bread. Like these things are even in the seam kind of minuscule in the grand scheme of the torture that is happening out in the world. So I wonder if it is coin and the others allow this to happen so that one, she can see what has happened, and two, that she feels like she has some autonomy.

K. Leigh 8:11

Right. And even though I've read this before, I was still expecting Snow to be like behind like a crumbling wall and be like, Psst, Katniss. Katniss. I'm still here.

Jessica Mary 8:25

There's a couple really creepy parts in this, and one is the flower, right? That she comes home and the rose is there in her house in Victor's Village, which is like ah. The other line, the ashes billow up around me, and I pull the hem of my shirt up over my mouth. It's not wondering what I'm breathing in, but who that threatens to choke me. And I was like, oh, it's so gross. You made it even worse. Which is kind of like another thing about like if the ashes are still actively permeating through the air, why are you allowed to be there? Right. And there is the note with you know, snow is everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. And she's shocked to find that rose. And I I think we bring this up every book. Girl, why are you shocked? Why are you surprised that the nation that prides itself on watching its citizens has been watching its citizens?

K. Leigh 9:21

So I also want to make a joke. Because I I said that whole thing about President Snow being behind a wall, but what if President Snow learned from PETA and he just covered himself in ashes? And you just see the eyes pop them, and he's like, hey Katniss, down here. And he just hands her the rose.

Julia 9:40

I like that so much better. He's like, hand is part of the bowl, and he's like he like grabs her hand.

Jessica Mary 9:48

I went to the bakery and I got supplies. Like oh, and the bakery is gone, and so is Pita's family. None of them made it to District 13. What a shame. Yeah, so I kind of have like a similar womp womp, and it was really like I noted that this was such a conflicting moment because canonically, PETA's family never appears on screen, and what we know about them is like they actively, very actively do not care about PETA. They don't support PETA. They don't in his own words, they don't need PETA, and he was so estranged from them that like he never even considered them as a reason to live.

K. Leigh 10:29

I thought they were on screen. I thought his his dad wished her goodbye in the first book.

Jessica Mary 10:36

Oh, yeah, you're right. Okay, so one time one of his parents shows up with some cookies and then.

K. Leigh 10:40

The creepy one that wanted to marry her mom.

Jessica Mary 10:42

Yeah, yeah.

K. Leigh 10:43

And pointed out to a son who has a different mom.

Jessica Mary 10:46

Yep. But it's still a tragic and horrible loss of life. Like the temperature of the bombs that were dropped melted the oven all the way down. Like that's that's crazy. But at the same time, these people kind of sucked. And we never, like, as a character, and not as a Jessica's a heartless monster, but we never saw them, we never got attached to them. And so to know that they're dead is like, oh, okay. Especially the mom. Oh yeah, because she beat him for throwing burnt bread.

K. Leigh 11:15

I don't know about the dad. He seems kind of weird, but I don't think I would just an overview.

Jessica Mary 11:20

Like, yay, he's dead. Here's some cookies, your mom is hot. Like your mom's still single. Yeah. Oh, and then she finds the cat. She finds Buttercup.

K. Leigh 11:31

It shoves him in the bag, because you know, that's gonna help their friendship.

Jessica Mary 11:35

Like, every cat I've ever met absolutely would love being shoved into a bag.

Julia 11:40

Oh yeah. Just the flap thrown over, too, not even zipped up.

Jessica Mary 11:44

Yep.

Julia 11:44

It's definitely stained in there.

Jessica Mary 11:46

Yeah, he definitely wasn't growling or hissing or fighting that. Nope, nope. Totally, totally okay. Okie dokie, okie day. The paws worn out. Yeah, like none of this cat is sticking out of this bag. That's what's unbelievable. And then she finds the rose and she's like, Well, I should tell somebody, but who should I tell? No one's gonna believe me, they're just gonna think that I'm crazy. And I'm like, every single one of these people has known President Snow a lot fucking longer than you.

Intro 12:13

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 12:14

And when we get to sunrise, you will see that Plutarch and Hamich most definitely would have believed her that this man was just in her house being like, hey bitch.

Julia 12:26

But even without like that, we would I think they would believe her.

Jessica Mary 12:31

Yeah. And I I think like they don't give her any reason to not think that. Yeah. Up to this point, has there been any point where she's been like, wow, snow is watching me and someone's been like, you're crazy? Right? Exactly. That's silly.

K. Leigh 12:44

I think it's very well documented that everyone knows how snow is. Right?

Julia 12:49

Well, especially with the whole hunting in the woods, Pita and Hamage coming over thing and hiding. Anyway, it's just who am I gonna tell? Everyone's gonna be able to get it. Because she gets so everyone is against me so fast.

Jessica Mary 13:03

So fast.

K. Leigh 13:05

Like and that's why they don't let her into the plan.

Julia 13:10

It's like all of a sudden everyone hates me, and it's like that's not what's happening though. Like, if you were just a like a little nicer.

Jessica Mary 13:19

If yeah, if you just smiled more. No, don't quote me on that. That's terrible. But we have this conversation like every week about how nobody fucking talks to each other. And then they're surprised when things go wrong, and they're like, What do you mean you don't know the thing that I never fucking told you? So, like, I don't remember exactly what happens in the next couple of chapters, but I know someone's gonna she's gonna argue with someone and be like, How do you not know that there was a rose in my house? And it's gonna be like, 'cause you didn't fucking say anything, bitch. Yeah. Like, we're not mind readers.

K. Leigh 13:54

But to be fair, to be fair, in a to be fair in a apocalyptic world such as this, I wouldn't want to tell anyone anything either. Because you don't know who's listening, you don't know who is playing both sides, you don't know anything.

Julia 14:14

But she manufactures people being against her. That's the thing, is like I can't think of a single person that actually has fucked her over. Like, am I blanking on this?

Intro 14:25

Yeah.

Julia 14:26

But exactly, like, so up until this point, though, the evil people are the evil people, and the nice people are the nice people. And any person that she has thought to be evil, she manufactured that evilness. Or, like, you know what I mean? Is that first is that first snow, of course.

Jessica Mary 14:43

Yeah, snow's just a psychopath.

Julia 14:45

I feel like, but I would be running to the first person I saw and be like, this fucking bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

He was here, he was here.

Jessica Mary 14:56

Also, like where the where the last book ends, right? Where like there is no district 12 and she's just pissed off and she's like, I'm angry. And like even the movie, which was hilarious to watch Jennifer Lawrence's face just contort into rage. It was like, that's so silly. Oh, the credits, okay. To come from that and then not immediately come back to like your mentors or your authority, I guess. Like, I I'm not entirely certain on the relationship title between her and Coin and Plutarch and Hamich at this point, because she's kind of pissed at them, rightfully so, because they left PETA in the arena, but also like they're allies, so they're just kind of almost enemy of my enemy is my friend at this point, because she's like, fuck everybody. I forget where I was going.

Julia 15:43

It's kind of like they have to work together.

Jessica Mary 15:46

Yes, they do.

Julia 15:47

Like they're stuck in the worst group project ever.

Jessica Mary 15:51

Oh my god. If I were her and I'm coming off of this rage, I would come back and be like, that motherfucker was in my house. Because keeping the fact that Snow was in her house, not just he's clearly watching my house, he was physically inside it and left me a fucking present. Well, he might not have. I was just gonna say, he could have had someone do that. He had someone go in my house and leave me a present. That's intimate and weird.

Julia 16:19

So the roses are genetically modified to smell better. Whatever. Are they genetically modified to last longer too? I don't remember that part.

Jessica Mary 16:31

I only remember that they're genetically modified to smell better to cover up like the dental damage and the smell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Nothing better than rose-covered bad breath. Woo!

K. Leigh 16:46

Rose-covered decay. Decay.

Jessica Mary 16:50

Yeah. Someone's gonna give someone a bouquet and they're gonna be like, oh, roses, how nice. How kind. Um and yeah, and then and then we have Pita's interview, the blatantly poorly scripted interview, at which Caesar is like, sure looks like that rebellious wife of yours rebelled against the Capitol and sided with the rebels. And Pete's just like, no, it looks like she got electrocuted and then almost murdered, and then picked up while she was unconscious, and like it all just kind of goes to hell. Yeah. And then Sassmaster PETA comes out at the end and he's just like, uh, why don't you just take me back to my room so I can build another hundred card houses?

K. Leigh 17:34

So funny.

unknown 17:37

Yeah.

K. Leigh 17:38

That would be so boring to do, though. I'd go crazy.

Julia 17:41

I feel like they all jump to Pete as a trader really quickly, though, too.

Jessica Mary 17:46

Really fast.

Julia 17:47

Especially given the content of his interview, where it's clearly like uh yeah, like I'm gonna go back to my room and build more card houses. Like, clearly, he's being sequestered and not given the luxuries of a capital residency.

Jessica Mary 18:00

Citizen or Victor or anything, yeah. I also want to talk about that because alright, so obviously I hate Gail. That's I think been pretty Do you advised right? Who's surprised?

SPEAKER_02 18:13

And appalled.

Jessica Mary 18:14

He very clearly understands that PETA is just a megaphone for Snow's plants. Like he even outright says it, right? It's you know, the ceasefire is clearly Snow's idea. Outright. And like the whole thing is PETA might have done a lot of damage tonight. Most of the rebels will dismiss what he says immediately, of course, but there are districts where the resistance is shakier. The ceasefire is clearly President Snow's idea, but it seems so reasonable coming out of Pita's mouth. Katniss, he's still trying to keep you alive. And then later he's like, I'm not trying to argue. Like, yes, you are, you son of a bitch. You are absolutely trying to argue. But you also clearly understand it's not Pita's idea. He doesn't seem to be like, oh yeah, let's all do what the Capitol says. He's got a fucking attitude, and he clearly doesn't want to fucking be there.

K. Leigh 19:01

Right. And if he was in District 13, he'd be doing the same thing, but for the different side. Yes. Just like what Katniss is supposed to do, but she's no PETA.

Julia 19:11

Seems like a little strange that everyone was like, he's a terrorist now, or he's against us. I was like, I don't really get how you got there, but Right.

K. Leigh 19:22

Especially when you know he's captive and building card houses in a room sequestered by himself.

Jessica Mary 19:28

Right. Even if you didn't know about the card houses, everybody in that district knows how the Capitol operates. And they're like, okay, he got captured. Well, I guess he's with them now.

K. Leigh 19:39

What?

unknown 19:40

Okay.

K. Leigh 19:40

Yeah, because every time you get captured, you just automatically side with whoever captured you.

Jessica Mary 19:46

And I can understand this feeling about District 2, right? Because District 2 has the reputation that they have always felt themselves a part of the capital. Like the people that think they make enough money to be part of the 1% here in America. Like, no, you're not actually a billionaire, you're quite poor. That's how I see District 2. But PETA.

Julia 20:06

Yeah, no, right. They jump to that conclusion real fast for no reason.

Jessica Mary 20:13

Yeah.

K. Leigh 20:14

I think it's just Gail being Gail and trying to be like, see, I'm better. He yeah, also after this.

Jessica Mary 20:22

Which is funny because in this section, she outright says he's no longer like trying to kiss her or get her to date him. And I'm like, yeah, but you're still being a dick. Right. You know, he's even got the part where he's like, I'd be ready to execute everybody working for the capital with the push of a button.

Julia 20:38

That was in the twisting line. And she just didn't even blink.

Jessica Mary 20:42

Yeah, she was like, hmm, okay then. Even I was like, okay then. Yeah. We're at a point in the series, in the war, in in this whole story, where nobody sees the other side as human. There's no such thing as a bystander on either side at this point. And I think still that the capital has control of the narrative. Even about the rebel cause, they still have control of this narrative that's going out. So they have PETA out there, and even though with your eyes and ears you can see he's got an attitude, you're still like, oh, well, the Capitol is calling for a ceasefire, but the rebels aren't. And then that'll be the narrative that goes on in the Capitol and out on the airwaves, and it's Right, because I don't District 12 doesn't really have that much of a reach. Or 13.

K. Leigh 21:35

That's what I meant. 13 doesn't have that much of a reach because no one even knew that District 13 even existed.

Jessica Mary 21:43

Snow knew that it existed.

K. Leigh 21:45

Well Snow knew but yeah, and then he's going to keep them not able to broadcast and shit.

Jessica Mary 21:51

Yeah.

K. Leigh 21:52

Because the whole point is he knew they existed, but the deal was he would pretend that they didn't exist.

Intro 21:59

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 21:59

And then in the the microcosm of District 13, Coin has the narrative. Which is like, you know, we're doing well and we're pushing forward and we're doing this, and we have the mocking Jay. And did anybody ever read the book The Wave?

Intro 22:13

Oh sorry.

Jessica Mary 22:14

So this would be back in the early 2000s. That hurts so hard to say. But during like Holocaust Remembrance Month, my English class had read The Wave, and it's about a high school English class that starts a movement because the teachers, like, okay. Okay, well, this is how the Nazis worked, and this is how they got people to their side, and it starts as this tiny little club, and then it becomes a wave of issues through the school, where if you don't know the secret thing, if you're not actively participating with this group, then they're like ostracizing you, they're hurting you, etc., etc. And that's how it builds up. I mean, that's obviously what we're supposed to be thinking of here for both sides. They are both so militant and so intolerant of what the other side stands for. That we have people like Gail. Right. Plenty of people like that, I think, we know exist in the Capitol, right? Where like there's just excess, and how dare you keep me from my excess. But Gail is like, you deserve to die.

K. Leigh 23:13

Right. And then Katniss brings up the people who were born and raised in District 1 or the Capitol. Yeah, like this is how they were brought up. They don't know anything different. This is their reality, this is their culture, this is what's acceptable. And Gail has a point, which is like, well, they know it was wrong. Yeah. You're killing children. So like as a reader, you can see both sides.

Jessica Mary 23:43

To that but to that portion of the argument, yes. Yes. And it's I feel like I know I wrote this down later and I'll probably bring it up again, but I feel like Plutarch Kamich and Katniss are so far the only characters that see the gray area of the situation, where almost everybody else sees it as black and white. It is either you are with districts or you were with Capital. There is no in-between. There is nobody that is halfway there. There's no excuse that you didn't know. There's no, like I mean, like, imagine for a minute about just think about District 2, right? District 2 is where a lot of the volunteer tributes come from. Like it's an honor to be in the games there. Like, that's just a whole different thing.

K. Leigh 24:28

Right. And they train. Like that is their their only job is to train.

Jessica Mary 24:32

Yeah. I love this line. I'm just gonna move on. She's talking about when she goes back to rest, and we're starting to see a little bit more of like district thirteen core. Everything is grey, the walls are gray, the clothes are gray, their boots are gray, the tray is gray, the tables are grey, it's like a really shitty cafeteria in an elementary school somewhere. They just painted it all the same fucking color and they were done with it. And she says, I have a bed to myself because I'm recuperating, and because no one can sleep with me anyway, what with the nightmares and a thrashing around? And I'm like, well, that's that's one way to get your own room, I suppose. Just have PTSD and scream in the middle of the night so nobody wants to be near you. It's okay. So we have District 13, which is, you know, grey, grey, grey, grey, with an accent of more gray. Yeah. Uh but the culture there is like, you will be made useful and you will earn everything that you have here. You will earn your space, you will earn your food, you have a schedule to keep to, you have a job to do. Like every day they stick their hand in whatever like the little scanner, and they get a temporary tattoo of their schedule for the day. So there's literally no excuse for you to not know where you're supposed to be because it's on you.

Julia 25:49

Yeah. Do you think that that's good or bad? I like to Oh, really? To me, that seemed c 100% completely reasonable given the situation that they're in. They need every single person to be useful because they're such a small community. Like they don't have like they're completely self-reliant. I don't know. To me, I was like, Yeah.

Jessica Mary 26:10

I don't like it because I'm disabled. Like, what would happen to somebody in District 13 like me who is like bound to the wheelchair? And you have BD, but the prospect on BD is that he'll get better.

Julia 26:22

You may have elevators.

Jessica Mary 26:23

Sure.

Julia 26:24

Like, I don't know. Like you can that's a solution. But like you can you can move the floors. I don't know. Like not everyone uh has a useful job being a soldier.

Jessica Mary 26:35

But they call everyone soldier.

Julia 26:40

Yeah, your soldier But Katniss is because she's part of the infantry, but they wouldn't call Katniss's mom soldier.

Jessica Mary 26:46

Like almost everyone that they refer to is soldier blank, soldier this, soldier that. I haven't heard them.

K. Leigh 26:52

I think they I think in the book it says anyone who's like in the upper tier, like Coin and Haymitch and all them, don't get called as soldiers, but everyone below them does.

Jessica Mary 27:02

Very much like Comrade.

Julia 27:04

Yeah. I guess I just refuse to believe that they would be heartless in a person having a disability. Like they have a hospital wing. To me, it's like if they were that heartless, they wouldn't have a hospital wing. Is that like a stretch?

K. Leigh 27:22

It seems like they're close to putting a sign over their entrance to District 13 that says Arbeit Machtfry. Because that's what it sounds like to me. Although, I do have to say, I wouldn't mind getting a tattoo of a s uh of a schedule on my arm because it might be fantastic.

Jessica Mary 27:44

My ADHD would absolutely love to have my schedule for the day tattooed on my arm.

K. Leigh 27:50

Yes.

Jessica Mary 27:51

My ADHD ass would also frequently forget to put my hand through the fucking thing to get the tattoo of the schedule on the arm.

Julia 27:59

Absolutely.

Jessica Mary 28:00

And even if the schedule is there on my arm, heaven forbid this jumpsuit covers it for even one second. I'm going to forget that it's there.

Julia 28:08

Yeah. See, I don't know. Like, I get it. I get why they were like that. You can't just have a free-for-all when you're just your little compound.

Jessica Mary 28:18

I understand that aspect of it, and they are underground, and like their level of survival has definitely been different.

Julia 28:24

Like it has to be communism. Like they talk about people hoarding food and stuff and how that was a major issue.

Jessica Mary 28:30

Yeah, because it brought in vermin.

Julia 28:31

My thing is like it's very totalitarian communist. Yeah, but no one uh has money too. So you also have to think about that.

K. Leigh 28:42

So I see what you're saying. And I think you're you're right in that where as a society we should be making our own goods and exchanging them to keep the economy alive, right? If you take out money, like I've heard stories of like they bring you know the pizza over to the bakery, and the bakery gives them cookies, right?

Jessica Mary 29:05

Yeah, yeah.

K. Leigh 29:06

As an exchange. And I think you're right with that, where without money, people need to be useful, you need to earn your keep. There could be an economy somewhere where this person trades that, and then that person trades for this, and and and that could work. But in theory, every government works on paper versus Yeah.

Julia 29:25

I just think that they don't have a lot of room for waste, and this was like the best I don't know, they could come up with. Also, like being underground is like a huge um disadvantage disadvantage. I was gonna say disability, but disadvantage. Like they're so stuck they can't go out and get their own stuff.

Jessica Mary 29:45

So but like on the note of waste, my question there is like what happens in District 13 to a person who cannot contribute?

K. Leigh 29:53

You wheel them off the cliff. They did have old people.

Jessica Mary 29:57

They did. What happens when those old people eventually reach an age where like age is getting in the way? Do they like viking them off a cliff?

Julia 30:06

I don't know. I don't think it's that bad.

K. Leigh 30:09

But maybe that's just That's a question left up that we need to bring up to Suzanne Collins.

Julia 30:16

Ah, yes, I'll call her. Suzanne? Suzanne I'll add her to the text chain.

Jessica Mary 30:21

Yeah, I have done some crazy finagling for books for us, but I don't think I can get Suzanne to come to the podcast. I think if we make a YouTube channel we call her out enough, we might be able to. Just just every short going out on our YouTube channel for the next year. Suzanne, we have questions. Suzanne, Suzanne, please answer us. Suzanne, I have showed you my podcast. Please respond.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Suzanne. Yeah.

K. Leigh 30:49

Suzanne. Hashtag does Suzanne like disabled people.

Jessica Mary 30:53

Well, it's not even does Suzanne like disabled people. Does District 13 have space for disabled people? It is very important for me to know.

K. Leigh 31:02

Now that we're on the topic of disabled people, we don't see anyone disabled in the arena. There's like no disabled characters.

Jessica Mary 31:11

With the exception of Victors. Chaff is missing his arm. Well, Mia is missing a leg. That's because they they went into the arena.

Julia 31:20

Sorry. Like there's no one in like a wheelchair?

Jessica Mary 31:22

Nope.

Julia 31:23

No, no, but that's what I'm asking you. Like, what is disabled for you that there's no disabled representation?

Jessica Mary 31:29

There's no born that way physically disabled person. There's no mentally disabled person.

Julia 31:34

Do you think that that would be hard for an audience to like consume that media though?

Jessica Mary 31:41

I think at the time the books were published and the movies came out, yes.

Julia 31:45

Yeah, like I think that would be something that they wouldn't want to like I can don't think I could watch like a Down syndrome girl get fucking knifed to the back.

Jessica Mary 31:59

Oh, then you're gonna have a problem in Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, friend.

Julia 32:03

But no, but I mean like at that time in my life. Like I understand representation now, but I'm talking about when I was like 14 years old watching this. Like I don't think I could like the lack of is reasonable for the time that it was made.

K. Leigh 32:20

I don't know about that, but I agree I would want to watch that. But again, I also don't want to watch kids in an arena attacking each other and dying.

Jessica Mary 32:28

Yeah. I mean I do.

K. Leigh 32:30

I'm a terrible person, so I kind of just want to see Effie pull like a name out of the jar and like someone just like wheel up. Oh like a tiny crutches.

Jessica Mary 32:41

Yeah, actually. Like all the kids in 12 are able-bodied. Yes. And to our knowledge, there's no like, oh well, you know, I went to the mines as a child in District 12, and now I don't have legs, and that doesn't like exempt you from the games.

Julia 32:57

Is that a representation of all of Pan M then? That there's a um an emphasis put on usefulness to society. Yeah. And that wouldn't be a thing that would make it.

Jessica Mary 33:13

If we're thinking about it in the terms of like all of Pan M, the only times that we see non-able-bodied people, yeah, eugenics, exactly, as producer Rob is writing on his fun little tablet, is in the Capitol when they're victors and they have the money and the at least perceived privilege to then have a fake arm and a prosthetic. That's the word I'm looking for, the prosthetic arm and a prosthetic leg.

Julia 33:38

It seems like all of Pan M is is um having eugenics towards only abled-bodied people.

Jessica Mary 33:44

Which they kill a lot of kids for like For us to not say eugenics, yeah, they kill all of them.

Julia 33:50

No, but I just mean like they just kill a lot of people for the amount of people that are in Pan Am. Like if we really think about it. Anyway.

K. Leigh 33:58

And even in District 12, when like the mines blew up and you know, a lot of the workers died. I don't think we even got anything where Katniss's mom took care of them, but we didn't I don't remember seeing anyone like having a hand blown off or a leg blown off.

Julia 34:17

I remember seeing a guy with one arm. I did see that. But then yeah, it's like, well, that's a work injury, a hazard from the useful task that you were doing and not a given. I'm gonna take a hard shift here. Did the term breeders throw anyone else off? Because that was the worst thing I've ever read in my whole life.

Jessica Mary 34:41

Yeah, it was really weird.

Julia 34:43

They would have been even more powerful if that pox epidemic hadn't flattened their birth rate and made them so desperate for a new gene pool and breeders.

Jessica Mary 34:53

Yep. Yeah, that part was weird.

Julia 34:56

Why like why that word? I hated that. What would you call them?

Jessica Mary 35:00

Livestock.

Julia 35:01

Moms? Like a new gene pool and babies? Like an right?

Jessica Mary 35:09

Like an I might have stopped at new gene pool?

Julia 35:11

Yeah, just new gene pool. Like we understand that kids need to how they ha I don't know. I hated that so much. How they hatch. How they hatch. The stork is.

Jessica Mary 35:20

That's how it works in the Capitol. They just put them in an egg and they sit on it, and then nine months later.

Julia 35:26

What do you think of her weird obsession with District 13 not showing up for the rest of Pan Am?

Jessica Mary 35:34

I have notes on that.

Julia 35:38

I thought that was unreasonable.

Jessica Mary 35:41

She goes back and forth on it.

Julia 35:43

And I I don't think some of it's forth because she to me she's like, fuck them, fuck them for not showing up. How dare they not show up and leave us to die for 74 years?

Jessica Mary 35:56

It's for like a sentence that she goes forward. And it's around the time that the guy is like, yeah, they had this pox show up and it wiped out a lot of the population, and so they're excited that we're here because increasing to the gene pool, and it left a lot of the people in the district sterile. And I feel like that's the only time that she's like, wow, that sucks. But in the meantime, hey, fuck you guys, because you stayed underground for all these years.

Julia 36:18

Like that line, the new gene pool. Maybe they are militaristic. They're here, they're willing to take on the capital. Still, it took them long enough to show up.

Jessica Mary 36:26

Yeah. That's what I mean. For like one sentence, she went forward and then we went right back to they like they didn't show up. And she's right. They have all of this military technology. They didn't come and get anybody out for 75 years.

K. Leigh 36:41

Yeah, they had to wait till Snow had dementia. But Snow wasn't hasn't been president for 75 years, right?

Intro 36:47

Correct.

Julia 36:48

Yeah, okay. He has not. I was like, he's not just the only one. I don't know, but then is it the same thing as like the kids growing up in the Capitol, as the people growing up in District 13 of we stay safe, we protect ourselves, like don't reach out, you you know, we stay quiet, we take care of ourselves, sort of thing. And then as the generations move on, then they all think that. So what starts out and then and they're like little, they're small. Like, I don't know. I don't really see they had to wait for an opportunity, maybe.

Jessica Mary 37:24

I know that they had to wait for an opportunity, but 75 years feels like a very long time to wait for an opportunity.

Julia 37:30

You also need a president who wants to reach out. That's true. Like it doesn't seem like these uh people have a lot of agency.

K. Leigh 37:40

And coin seems younger than snow.

Julia 37:43

Yeah. Even though Katniss is like, they look the same age and they could be best friends.

Jessica Mary 37:49

Isn't that a thing? Yeah, I don't know how old Coin is. Do the internet. How old is President Coin? We'll find out.

Julia 37:56

She seems a little more with it, but isn't Katniss say that they look similar or something? Did I make that up in my brain?

Jessica Mary 38:04

So does Coin look like President Snow with a wig? Probably. Like the the best we have is that she's got graying hair and pale gray eyes.

Julia 38:12

Bob is sharp, and Katniss is like it's sharp. That's a wig. That's most definitely a wig.

K. Leigh 38:18

So that's gonna be a part of my rewrite. We're gonna describe President Fog as just President Snow in a wig.

Jessica Mary 38:26

And it is actually just Coriolina Snow in a wig. In a wig. I love this. Doesn't shave his beard. Yeah.

Julia 38:34

It's perfect. No notes. Just told something I don't in a high voice. I don't understand how this didn't happen. No, no, no. The voice gets deeper.

Jessica Mary 38:47

And then he yells about the game makers just putting bus stops in the middle of a fucking.

Julia 38:51

Oh yeah, you have to add that for sure. And the tributes have to vlog. They have to have a toothbrush thing in their pockets, in every single person needs a fucking toothbrush. You can't fight over that.

Jessica Mary 39:11

You cannot tell me the Capitol does not have chewable toothpaste.

K. Leigh 39:15

Until Jessica shows me a bus stop in New Jersey that looks like the cornucopia. That part is being left out of the rerun.

Jessica Mary 39:25

You just you just wait because I'm going to have a day where I'm not making socials for this podcast, and I'm going to Photoshop that damn cornucopia where bus stop should be. And I'm going to send you hundreds of these god-awful photos. Alright. In any case, the internet says that Coin's birthdate is never explicitly stated in the book. So we are only going to have she's looks like she might be in her 50s and she's got the gray hair and gray eyes because everything in District 13 is fucking grey.

Julia 39:59

Yeah, like what did you guys what did you guys think of her unreasonable not to lead the witness, but the unreasonable District 13 not showing up thing.

Jessica Mary 40:11

I think she gets to be mad about that. Like she's not far from District 13, and they never came to help. There's no way that, at the very least, during coin's range, that they aren't watching, that they aren't spying, that they aren't looking for things, that they aren't seeing these people that are running away from the fence and going into the woods, that they they aren't actively trying to get these people. Because she even notes the two people that she met in catching fire that were on their way to go find District 13, they're not there.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 40:45

Yeah, they never made it. They never made it. So they're putting out the word that District 13 exists and then they're not helping or leading anybody there.

K. Leigh 40:55

But is District 13 putting out the word, or is that just a theory that's being placed by all the other districts?

Julia 41:02

Yeah, it's not like they were like, come to us.

Jessica Mary 41:05

I mean, that's a weird fucking playground rumor to get started. Oh, everybody's still alive down there? And it's so hopeful and so real that we're gonna up and leave our districts, which But it existing and them inviting people is like two different things.

Julia 41:21

Like them being the saviors.

K. Leigh 41:23

And also with the the footage, remember she said that the one footage of District 13 replays yeah, the modeling chain. Right. And so people could put that together, you know, that maybe maybe it's there, who knows? And then someone could say, I think District 13 still is still there, I'm gonna go find it, and then you know how whisper down the lane works. So everyone's like, Oh, it's still there, it's still there, it's still there.

Jessica Mary 41:52

So we don't know if District 13 is putting out those rumors or if it's just I feel like District 13 is the neighbor to an abusive couple, and they can hear the screaming and they can hear the fighting, and they don't call the cops.

Julia 42:09

No, no, it's they don't walk into that house. There's no calling the cops. You're the solution. So they choose to not put themselves between those two people. That's the analogy.

Jessica Mary 42:23

I feel like them not getting involved, period, when especially for coins, like we don't know who was before coin, we don't know what they were like. All we know is that there was, you know, a mysterious illness that went through. But I feel like for coin, who was like, fuck the capital, and I want to build a rebellion to not actively try and help out, even to have like some underground railroad-esque system.

Julia 42:48

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 42:49

Is is shitty. I feel that sentence is fair.

Julia 42:52

Yeah, that's fair. 75 years is a very long time.

Jessica Mary 42:55

Yeah.

Julia 42:56

It's not just like a couple years. So I don't know. People can be really selfish about their own people, though, too.

Jessica Mary 43:03

Moving on through other stuff that happened in chapter three. Uh she's got all of the stuff that she had on her from the arena. She's got her pin, she's got Pita's mocking J necklace, she has the spile, and she has the pearl. And then she sits back on the bed, and she's just got a weird thing about rubbing shit on her face in this section, because she does it with her bow too. But she I sit back on my bed cross-legged and find myself rubbing the smooth iridescent surface of the pearl back and forth against my lips. For some reason, it's soothing. A cool kiss from the giver himself. I'm like, I get it, you're stimming, but it's really weird.

Julia 43:39

My sister is gonna absolutely hate me sharing this, and I hope she never listens to this pod. But my sister had like a blanky growing up, and she would she didn't suck on it or anything, she just rubbed it on her lip. And the the pearl on the lip, I was like, yo.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

This is so cute. My little vibey sister used to do that all the time when she was seven years old. That's adorable.

K. Leigh 44:05

Just rub it on your lip. Well, that, but I would also just like put like run my hand over that. Because I had a p like a pillow with satin hands and like a blanket with the trim that was satin, and that's that's something that would soothe me to sleep.

Jessica Mary 44:21

I had a quilt that my grandmother made me that had like, you know, that that quilt texture going through everything, and I used to run my hands all over that. But I was running my hands all over it, not just like putting it up. To my lips or rubbing it on my face.

K. Leigh 44:34

I would do both. I would run my hands over it and then I would like as I was falling asleep, I would take either like part of the pillow or the blanket and just rub it against my lips.

Jessica Mary 44:42

And then and then while doing that, um, were you also 17 and imagining that the person that gave it to you was kissing you?

K. Leigh 44:50

No. No. I stopped that well before 17.

Jessica Mary 44:54

Oh, okay, okay. Because Katniss didn't. Katniss is taking this and imagining kisses. Which is the weird part to me. And she does it later with the bow where she's like, oh, it's humming, and she puts it on her face.

Julia 45:07

A cool kiss from the giver himself.

Jessica Mary 45:10

Yes.

K. Leigh 45:11

Okay, but to be fair, did Katniss have a childhood? Ayy.

Jessica Mary 45:17

Oh, oh, I see.

Julia 45:18

So just hitting us with the facts and the sad thoughts. Thanks, Kaylee. That was so kind of you.

Jessica Mary 45:28

In that sense, then, did she take like coal and rub it all over her face because she missed her father? Yeah, or or or the jacket and rub it all over her face. Or she goes into the arena and she finds some cake icing and she just puts it all over her face because she misses Bita that much.

Julia 45:46

Like Yeah, the the the lip, the lip was was a little strange. It was childish in a way that didn't need to be in that moment. Like, is that a um contrasting mo or compare and contrasting moment to um Prim getting up right after that? And how Prim isn't a child anymore?

Jessica Mary 46:07

Yeah, and like Prim's not a child because, you know, of all the tragedy and trauma around her, and also I thought it was a weird contrast giving the maturity that they're going to expect from her being a symbol of the rebellion.

Julia 46:23

But then yeah, that could be like they expect maturity out of her, but she's still a fucking child. Like, let's keep in mind that these people are like, it's totally reasonable that this 17-year-old got married and had a is pregnant. Obviously, it's like so reasonable that this is happening.

Jessica Mary 46:40

So I will say at the very least, they're not asking her to lead the rebellion, they are asking her to be a prominent face of the rebellion.

Julia 46:50

Which she does not seem to understand. Because she thinks she's leading the rebellion.

Jessica Mary 46:55

Yeah, and also later, I think it's Flavius, kind of like grabs Gail and she's like, not everybody has a camera ready face. Look at him. And it's like, oh, I'm sorry. Um, because she's like saying it toward Katniss, like, you don't have a camera ready face, so we have to do something to you. And it's like, I'm sorry. Did you just tell me that I have a face for radio and ask me to be on camera everywhere? You suck. Uh what else happens in chapter three? Oh, her list. Her list happens in chapter three. Yeah, we're still on three. Yeah. Uh so they she demands that the cat stays, that Gail is the emotional support idiot, that she gets to go hunting, the victors all get pardoned, coin has to pledge all this in public, and that she gets to kill Snow, and Coin is like, eh, we'll flip for it, which is funny because her name is Coin. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And afterward is when we find her prep team.

Julia 47:42

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Did you guys think the list was dumb?

Jessica Mary 47:47

I thought her putting it together in front of people was dumb. Like, you don't know your demands by now.

Julia 47:54

I mean, I I I understand having to write it th stuff down, but like pre-writing stuff down, maybe?

Jessica Mary 48:00

Like that would have been I think in the movie the cat is the last thing on the list, and I think I prefer that presentation because she leads with like the big important things, and then she's like, Oh, and my sister gets to keep her cat.

Julia 48:13

Oh, yeah. That is how she finishes.

Jessica Mary 48:16

Yeah. And here she's like, Well, she gets to keep the cat, and they're like, uh no. She's like, uh, yes, fuck you. Uh and she has that a couple times while debating this list.

Julia 48:24

Uh her like I kill snow thing is so cringe. It gets so fucking cringe.

Jessica Mary 48:33

I'll flip you for it.

Julia 48:35

I hate like you silly. Silly little billy.

Jessica Mary 48:41

So then, just to fly through chapter three, because we've been in chapter three.

Julia 48:44

The prep team.

Jessica Mary 48:45

Yeah, they get to the prep team, and like Plutarch is very surprised to find out that the prep team has not only been imprisoned, but they've like been abused and shit, and that's where it's like, oh, this seems extreme. Oh, it's because they took a slice of bread, and they were re repeat infractions leading up to that. They were warned, still, they took more bread. The guard pauses a moment as if puzzled over by our density. You you can't just take bread. And then later, uh, Flavius' foot catches on a metal grate over a circular opening in the floor. My stomach contracts when I think of why a room would need a drain. Uh, and then Katniss puts it together and she's like, I guess we've all been put on notice. She's punishing my prep team. But I think this actually comes back more to what Julia was saying, where she's like, Immediately, people are my enemy. That the like these are not get these people are not getting punished because they stole bread, they're getting punished because they have a connection to me, and her whole thing is, I guess we've all been put on notice. Punishing my prep teen is a warning, not just to me, but to you two, about who's really in control and what happens when she's not obeyed.

Julia 49:44

But they stole bread, so it seems like anyone would be thrown down there if they stole bread. Also, how do you steal bread? There's a cafeteria setting and you get what you get.

unknown 49:56

Yeah.

Julia 49:56

It's not like there's baskets to pick from. Like Didn't they even say like we didn't know? Yeah, we were hungry, we didn't know, and then that we didn't know means that it was their own agency to go take it. Or maybe they weren't told the rules. But then how would they get it?

Jessica Mary 50:16

Yeah, the guard also says that they were they had repeat infractions, but he doesn't say it's specifically about the bread. It's just about breaking the rules. Yeah, and Plutarch's like, I just thought that they were being detained.

Julia 50:31

Yeah, so how where are you stealing bread? You're in a cell.

Jessica Mary 50:36

So Uh oh, we found a plot hole. Yeah, and then we we get to have the argument between Gail and Katniss where he's like, Why do you why are you even standing up for them? They're from the capital. And she's like, they're actually very nice people. They're just dumb.

Julia 50:50

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 50:51

Like, they legitimately don't know what's going on. And I have a bunch of questions here because as we stated earlier, like, okay, fine, you don't know everything that's going on, but you still watch all of these children go to their deaths each year, and you are stylists in the game, so you are part of that. Like at what level do we give you blame and tell you that you are complicit, even if you're at the bottom of the ladder? We have the fight that happens in chapter four. Yeah and we wonder about it. Yeah, and he's like, I want to kill anyone, and how like ultimately the question out of chapter four is how complicit are the brainwashed? Right? If all you ever have is the propaganda and you never learn anything else, and you have no source to give you anything else, are you ultimately to blame?

Julia 51:38

Yes. No, I feel like as a um how do I say this, reformed Christian.

Jessica Mary 51:46

Oh, we got two of you on the podcast, do we?

Julia 51:50

Um like I was born into that kind of life, but then, you know, got my own thoughts and feelings and was able to look around me and notice that that probably wasn't the best idea. But there's kids and people that are around that and grow up with that, and even with many outside sources showing you otherwise, they still think and believe those things. Whereas these people aren't surrounded by anyone with other thoughts and feelings. And they so I do think it's reasonable to give them a break.

Jessica Mary 52:29

I will tell this particular story of my grandmother, whom I love and miss dearly. So she was watching a talk show one day and they were doing a feel-good story about a black man who donated an organ to a white woman. Oh, very nice, right? And my grandmother's just sitting there, well, standing. She did this weird thing. She'd just like stand in the middle of the living room and watch TV. It was really fucking weird some days. But she'd be like, Oh, that's so nice. How nice of him to do that for her. I'm like, Yeah, that is nice. What a good, feel-good story. She's like, I didn't even know that they could do that. And I'm like, what, like, switch kidneys? And no, my grandmother did not think that a black person could give a white person an organ or blood. She thought that they were genetically different.

Julia 53:12

Yeah, but that's grandma. I don't know.

Jessica Mary 53:14

Right. And that's that's kind of what some of the people in the Capitol are like. They don't have someone around them to be like, no, grandma, they are people too.

Julia 53:24

Exactly. They don't have the the other side. So, with that being said, yes, I would say we do have to give them a little bit of a break, but also no better, do better. So, once presented with the other side, if they're still like, I think it's just better if we kill kids, then then okay, then we can say you're not going to be able to do that.

Jessica Mary 53:46

What am I gonna do in July? Exactly. I miss my shows.

Julia 53:52

I want to see season 75. I can't wait.

Jessica Mary 53:55

And that was chapter four, and now we're moving on to chapter five.

Julia 54:01

Um they do go outside in chapter four, and they watch each other's backs from the deer that are apparently too nice.

Jessica Mary 54:11

They do. Oh, yeah, because the deer haven't been like hunted like they were around District 12, so all the wildlife around District 13 is like, hey, what's that?

Julia 54:20

Yeah, because there's no just general predators in the world. That's not how that works, but okay. I may have to tap out.

Jessica Mary 54:29

Uh give us a minute to run through. Yes. So in chapter 5 is when she gets the bow from BD, and BD's like, oh, it's voice activated. And I have thoughts about this because I same. Yes.

Julia 54:44

Voice activated to do what? How did he get her voice?

Jessica Mary 54:50

Two things, right? Right there. Voice activated to do what, and how did he get your voice? And what do you what do you mean? She's on television. It's it's a bow, and her bow is always a recurve. So is it voice activated to like redo the structure? Because ultimately only the arrows matter. The bow itself is not the weapon. The arrows are the weapons, and he hands them to her, and they're not voice activated. Yeah. And those blow up. It feels like those should be the ones that should have something to be like, hey, maybe it don't blow up when I shoot you. That should be what has the voice activation, not the fucking bow.

Julia 55:26

It's voice activated, and then she's like, I use my voice, and then the bow opens, or the bow gets taut, or whatever. It's like, now it's on. And like, what what the fuck do you mean it's on? It doesn't need to be on the yeah, that's like what?

Jessica Mary 55:41

I was like, I was like, I could see if it was a compound, the compound's the bow that has the pulleys for everyone that's like Jessica, you and your bullshit niche knowledge, and and then it would stop the pulleys from pulling. You wouldn't be able to pull that bow. But it's a fucking recurring.

Julia 55:53

But also, what would be the point to not be able to pull it? Yes. Which he does say at one point. Not that you'll use this very often. And I was like, then what is the point of this?

Jessica Mary 56:02

Why are you giving it to her? Like it's just You made it seem so cool, but like They're giving it to her for the pageantry of the look of the mocking Jay. Okay. And that is my mystery.

Julia 56:14

Why did you guys think it was weird that he had her voice? She was on television. She was on television.

Jessica Mary 56:20

Maybe it's weird that he's got her voice and didn't ask permission given what they went through in the arena.

Julia 56:26

I don't know. Public public domain, all of that.

Jessica Mary 56:30

Her voice is public domain. That's a fucking terrifying thought as somebody that puts out an audio medium. Uh and then there's the part where she puts it on her face. No, the bow is alive in my hands. I press it against my cheek and feel the light hum travel through the bones of my face. Like you couldn't feel it through the bones in your hands.

Julia 56:50

She wanted to feel the vibrations.

Jessica Mary 56:52

And then at the end of chapter five, we have the cringiest propaganda ever, which is, you know, people of Pan Am! We fight, we dare, we end our hunger for justice, and everyone is just like, this is really shitty. And ultimately.

Julia 57:07

It's clear they worked really hard on this for a really long time. It's dumb as fuck.

Jessica Mary 57:12

Yeah. But like, tell me you've never written a marketing campaign without telling me you've never written a marketing campaign is terrible. Um, and then they have the moment I'm I got I gotta tap out. I'm sorry. Okay, so we have the worst marketing thing, and yes, as you're saying, like she they're like, but they worked really hard.

Julia 57:32

But even like they're in the little meeting thing and they're talking about how she needs to look and stuff like that, and she's like, What about this scar on my arm? And she pulls up her thing, and this was so ridiculous to me. It was the stupidest fucking thing. I swear the sight of it triggers Fluvia's gag reflex for someone who works with the game maker, she's awfully sensitive. I'm sorry, you saw a scar and it was so gross you gagged? It's a it's a scar.

Jessica Mary 58:03

Yeah.

Julia 58:03

Like, what are you what?

Jessica Mary 58:05

My thing was like That was stupid. I was like, is your scar like woefully infected? Um Right?

Julia 58:11

I was like, is it a gaping wound? Because then it's not a scar.

Jessica Mary 58:14

But even then, like you worked with the game makers and you definitely saw grosser stuff than this.

Julia 58:20

Yeah. I don't really feel like Fluvia was introduced very well as a character because I don't totally understand who she is.

Jessica Mary 58:27

Also, I get her mixed up. It's is it Fulvia, Fluvia, Flavia? I Oh, if Fulvia I get them mixed up all the time because their names are just like a single syllable off. It's very weird to me.

Julia 58:40

Yeah. But anyways, I thought that was dumb. Yeah, it was dumb.

Jessica Mary 58:45

Yeah, and then they they get onto the uh the meeting room to be like, oh, do we all agree that that was absolutely shit and that we're never going to talk about it again? Cool, we're moving on. Uh, and it's like, let's all circle up and say nice things about Katniss. And they all come up with like these very emotional moments that have happened thus far in the series, right? You have when she volunteered for her sister, when she sang to Rue as she died, uh when she drugged PETA with the medicine to go get the medicine. And Hey Mitch is like, oh yeah, when she drugged PETA, just writing it down. Good, good moment, good moment.

Julia 59:22

Right.

Jessica Mary 59:23

Um, when she extended her hand to chaff, when she tried to carry mags, the berries, the berries, the berries, and then her love for PETA, which I thought was really a weird thing to not have an internal monologue about, was when someone said her love for PETA, that she didn't immediately have something to be like, yeah, which I've always had and have always realized, or been like, oh, he's my friend and I hope he's okay, just to kind of cement back down on her other message. Like, she didn't have a reaction to what I think is the biggest thing on that list.

Julia 59:59

Yeah, no, I agree. It was it was like, and moving on.

Jessica Mary 1:00:03

Yeah, she's like, huh, then how about that? And then they just agree that they'll just film her until inspiration strikes, and then agree that they'll just take her on on whatever is the next safest quote unquote mission outside of District 13. And then she and Hamich have the shortest fight ever, and possibly my biggest argument for just fucking talk to each other.

Intro 1:00:34

Right?

Jessica Mary 1:00:35

She comes up, I can't believe you didn't rescue Pita. I know he replies. Now you say it, I can't believe you let him out of your sight that night. The end. Good, we're moving on, and this is what's happening in in the next time that we we leave District 13. And I'm like, see what happens when you talk to one another? See how easily that was resolved?

Julia 1:00:53

Right? That took five seconds, and we didn't hear about it for ten chapters.

Jessica Mary 1:00:58

Exactly. Like, holy fuck, guys. If you just like led with some things, we'd be okay. And I understand that the book would be a lot shorter, but my blood pressure would also be a lot lower. And I think that's equally important. Then they're getting ready to leave, and Finnick comes out, and he's in the hospital gown, and he's mad. He's mad because they won't let him go on the mission.

Julia 1:01:25

She's uncharacteristically tactical about getting him to go um put pants on. Yeah, she's she's almost like motherly. Yeah. And she's like smart about it, and I don't know. I was like, oh, can we get more of this skin?

Jessica Mary 1:01:43

Yeah. And then there is the the the great moment, right? He's like, he looks down at she's like, hey, maybe some pants? Question mark. And he looks down at his legs as as if noticing his outfit for the first time. Then he whips off the hospital gown, leaving him in just his underwear. Why do you find this? He strikes a ridiculous, provocative pose. Distracting. And then she laughs, and I'm only human, O'Dare. And it is like this nice little downtime moment, and it's funny, and it's another thing that I'm pissed off that they cut from the movies. Because we have that little bonding moment in Catching Fire where they like screw with PETA with the ointment and stuff on their face, and you have this moment, and these little moments are what attach us to characters, and what ultimately make a thing that comes later, just in case you haven't read it yet, much more heartbreaking.

Julia 1:02:40

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 1:02:41

But to take those out of like the transmedia adaptation of it, these are my big words, I get to use my degree tonight. It ruins our attachment to the story and to the characters.

Julia 1:02:53

It's true. I didn't feel as strongly towards um Finnick in the movies as I did, as you do, um, with him in the books. Yeah. And then they um get on the little hovercraft. Yeah. And the funniest thing happens where there her face is all wiped off, and that one, the lady's like, oh my gosh, isn't he handsome? And Boggs fucking steps in and has totally has Katniss's back in that moment. And I loved that, that he was like, Clearly, this makes her feel uncomfortable.

Outro 1:03:30

Yeah.

Julia 1:03:31

Like he read the room, and I was like, Yes, I love this guy. Yep. And just after, and she even says, She's like, I think I'll have him as a friend.

Jessica Mary 1:03:38

And I was like, decided to like him. Yes.

Julia 1:03:41

Yeah. I was like, girl, me too. You have the girl code. You are an ally.

Jessica Mary 1:03:49

Like I've been saying that woman just kind of like, not everybody has a camera ready face like this guy, and just grabs Gail. Like, look how handsome he is. And she's like, it's like, fuck you. The other funny thing that happens on the plane or hovercraft or whatever it is, uh, is that they begin talking what kind of government they should put in place, and they're like, obviously, it'll be a republic. And I'm like, yeah. Cause because that's working out so well for us.

Julia 1:04:17

And every fucking fantasy dystopian book is like, you know what this needs? A democracy. And I'm like, ten years ago, maybe. Reading this now, you know what it doesn't need a democracy.

Jessica Mary 1:04:32

Yeah. Uh, I feel like current events are kind of proving that that's not the best system. And she kind of comes to the same uh conclusion, where she's like, frankly, our ancestors don't seem much to brag about. Uh and that would be us, by the way, guys. We're the ancestors. Uh I mean, look at the state they left us in with the wars and the broken planet. Clearly, they didn't care about what would happen to the people who came after them. But this republic idea sounds like an improvement over our current government. And I gotta tell you, um it kind of led you to where you are. So maybe it doesn't, but at the same time, anything is better than a totalitarian dictatorship and authoritarian police state. So I guess, you know, make an actual republic, but as long as it's an actual republic. Which, as we said earlier, most governments work on paper.

Julia 1:05:24

Yeah, that's fair.

Jessica Mary 1:05:26

Which brings us to chapter seven.

Julia 1:05:28

Yes.

Jessica Mary 1:05:28

And Katniss's Jesus moment. So the hospital is I'm tell me I'm wrong. So the hospital is like eye-opening for Katniss, not just in the reality of what is happening, but the reality of what she means to people. And she goes to the hospital, there's patients on whatever they can get on. They're on the floor, they're on blankets, they're on wheelbarrows, they're on like just a few two by fours, like it's whatever they can use to prop people up and whatever they used to get them there.

Intro 1:06:01

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 1:06:02

And there's only a curtain between the living and the morgue, and that's because they can't spare the manpower currently to move them from the hospital to the mass grave that they're digging a few blocks away. And when she gets there, people start shouting, like, oh, you're alive, we didn't know. People people told us that you were, but we didn't know. And we've had these moments from Katniss where we l like we're processing the propaganda of. But to see it in other people is equally as heart wrenching. Where it's like, I don't know that I can trust these people that are actively trying to save my life who are telling me that you're alive, but I haven't seen you alive. And so I don't believe that you're alive. And then they all want to touch her.

Julia 1:06:47

Do you think that her even just being on TV would have like because she wasn't on TV?

Jessica Mary 1:06:52

So I I feel like I don't know.

Julia 1:06:55

Like I like that's what she has to give hope to the rest of Pan Am for.

Jessica Mary 1:06:59

Yeah.

Julia 1:07:00

So they have to kind of make TV believe. I don't know.

Jessica Mary 1:07:05

I feel like it is very tricky in Pan Am because we know at this point that almost everything that goes out is doctored. It's all put together.

Julia 1:07:13

They can Yeah, but we know that how many of the citizens, no offense to them, are smart enough to think that. That is a good point.

Jessica Mary 1:07:24

That is a good point. I think the people that she sees at the hospital have at least come to the real realization that they have been fed lies and propaganda. Which is why it's so important for them at least to see her in person.

Julia 1:07:38

They are saying their lies and propaganda and their questioning is towards the rebels because they were like, we heard you were alive and we believed you were dead because the capital is saying you're dead, and we didn't believe the rebels that you were alive.

Jessica Mary 1:07:53

So Which I mean, I did say earlier, currently the Capitol controls the narrative.

Julia 1:07:58

But then they're believing the propaganda is what I'm saying.

Jessica Mary 1:08:02

Yeah, but they're also doubting it from their allies.

Julia 1:08:05

Exactly. Which is the silly part.

Jessica Mary 1:08:09

But they also live in a world where who could possibly be trusted when we're all watched and encouraged to snitch on our neighbors, and That's fair. Uh but then they they all want to touch her, which I thought was weird. And the description of it is also uh weird and made me uncomfortable, particularly this first line, which was hungry fingers devour me, wanting to feel my flesh, which I thought was a really weird way to say that people were touching a 17-year-old.

Julia 1:08:40

Yeah. I didn't love that. Um because that was uncomfortable.

Jessica Mary 1:08:45

Yeah, and then the rest of it is just like, you know, this man's like touching her face and like, oh my god, you're alive, and she's very thankful that she washed the makeup off because she's like, I can't imagine coming here to these people being presented to them as what the capital made me with all that makeup and a costume and everything else. Like being me and just being me is what makes me belong to these people, is what makes me give them hope, is what makes me the symbol that you want me to be. Oh, and then they bomb the hospital.

Julia 1:09:21

That's a pretty accurate world.

Jessica Mary 1:09:23

Oh, sh- I'm sorry, she realizes she has power prior to that, which is which is nice. And she realizes that everybody else realized that she had power before she realized that she had some power.

Julia 1:09:35

Okay, so I was kind of thinking about that part. And I was like, it's kind of interesting how everyone got together and was like, no one tell Katniss to be the mocking Jay. She has to think about this all on her own. No one give her advice that she should do this because no one, like, no one did. No one encouraged her to do this. She fully had to come to the conclusion all on her own. And I was like, it's a weird little little team up that not one person was like, you know what? You shouldn't be the mocking.

Jessica Mary 1:10:07

To be fair. How would that conversation go? Hey, so like the population of Pan Am, all of their hopes and dreams and freedom is going to rely on you being in these propaganda movies and being part of this rebellion and being able to stand up to the capital and this regime and seemingly doing it on your own as just this symbol. Are you in for that?

Julia 1:10:36

That's how the conversation would go.

Jessica Mary 1:10:37

Yeah, and then Cadness would be like, hey, fuck you, and she'd fucking bounce.

Julia 1:10:41

Like But I feel like you could have that conversation with some people.

Jessica Mary 1:10:45

With some people, but not Cadness. Cadness, I think, while she does accept responsibility, it's responsibility that she came to on her own. This is my sister, I must protect my sister. This is my mother, I must protect my mother.

Julia 1:10:57

I I agree. I just think it's really funny that like even people that didn't know her very well didn't say, hey, you should do this. Like Plutarch didn't, Coin didn't. Like everyone let left her alone. And I'm like, that's hilarious. As like seeing people with clearly control issues and like freaking um, you know, type A personalities being like, we're just gonna leave her to think about this. Like that's just so funny. Like they just had a meeting, no one say shit.

Jessica Mary 1:11:32

Yeah, like Haym which would be like, listen, if you tell her to do it, she's not gonna do it.

Julia 1:11:38

Yeah, that meeting is funny.

Jessica Mary 1:11:39

Yeah. If you ask her to do it, she's going to throw shit at your head.

Julia 1:11:44

Yeah. Maybe instead. We have to guilt her into it.

Jessica Mary 1:11:47

Yeah, instead be like, man, we should have got PETA and make her feel really guilty about it. And and when she is at her her lowest, she'll be like, Maybe I should be the mocking jay. And then she'll she'll come to you and make it make you think that it's your idea, but we all know it's been our idea since two fucking years ago. Yeah, exactly.

Julia 1:12:10

Yeah, like I just thought that was great. I was like, hmm. But yeah, so she decides to be the mocking jay on the roof while things are blowing up. Things. Also, Gail's weird excuse to like not, he was like, don't throw the exploding ones. Because if we miss, they're gonna explode. Throw the fire ones. That one's fine.

Jessica Mary 1:12:35

His reasoning to not shoot the exploding arrows is if they do explode and they take out extra things, it's going to hit the hospital. Okay, we don't want to hit the hospital.

Julia 1:12:45

No, he just said it was gonna hit it might hit other things. Yeah, one he now he did not say the hospital specifically, because they're not near the hospital anymore, right?

Jessica Mary 1:12:54

I think they're pretty close to the hospital.

Julia 1:12:55

But equally in the same vein, more damage than the fucking bombers, okay.

Jessica Mary 1:12:59

In the same vein, if you light the plane on fire, it's likely to crash into the hospital.

Julia 1:13:06

Like right? I was like, or well, you blowing up the plane would also make it crash somewhere.

Jessica Mary 1:13:15

Like the fire would also make it blow up because they're all carrying explosives.

Julia 1:13:19

Good thing we're doing the minimum damage one. Yeah. Not the full damage one. Yeah. Cool boy. It just seemed a little silly.

Jessica Mary 1:13:30

Yeah. And then we have the iconic fuck you statements of President Snow says he's sending us a message while I have a message for him. You can torture us and bomb us and burn our districts to the ground, but do you see that? Fire is catching, and if we burn, you burn with us. And at this point, I feel like we should cue the meme of from community just like, you're okay with torture, bombings, and burnings?

unknown 1:13:55

Like?

Julia 1:13:59

Like, oh.

Jessica Mary 1:14:01

What?

Julia 1:14:02

Okay.

Jessica Mary 1:14:03

And then the crew behind her says, cut, that's a rap. And so this is my conspiracy theory.

unknown 1:14:08

Okay.

Jessica Mary 1:14:09

That District 13 is in on this scene, that they built this scene specifically for Katniss to react to. They absolutely have the Oh, they knew the bombers were gonna show up. Yeah, or they knew that the bombers were gonna be showing. Yep.

Julia 1:14:25

They knew they weren't just sending her to a hospital.

Jessica Mary 1:14:29

Either the bombers were piloted by District 13 members, or they 100% knew that the bombers were going to show up.

Julia 1:14:38

I don't think they were piloted by District 13. I do think that they knew the strike was gonna happen. That they had some int intel.

Jessica Mary 1:14:47

My conspiracy theory is that District 13 did it. That District 13 did it in the same vein as something that happens later that I promised to try and keep these in these little chapter segments, so I can't say, but I know that you know what I'm talking about. Fuck Gail.

Julia 1:15:07

Yeah, but I just I don't know, like that's their stuff. Anyways, doesn't matter because those are conspiracy theories.

Jessica Mary 1:15:14

Those are the fun part, and I don't get to do that for this entire discussion series. I don't get to speculate, I don't get to be like, I would have done it differently. I mean, I could do it like I'm gonna do it differently. Katie absolutely did that, but the the fun part is the speculation, and I don't get to do any of that for this entire series. So just let me have my conspiracy theory.

Julia 1:15:37

Hey, no, no, no, but we just have two different ones. I agree that I just you think that it was 13, and I just think they knew. Okay. So yeah. We're like next to each other on the conspiracy theory board. Okay, yeah.

Jessica Mary 1:15:50

Um that is all I have.

Julia 1:15:54

Yeah, this it was a lot.

Jessica Mary 1:15:56

This was this was jam-packed, and I think the next seven chapters are also jam-packed.

Julia 1:16:01

I feel well, this whole this whole book is jam-packed, but I cannot hear Katniss fucking flip-flop one more time.

Jessica Mary 1:16:10

That's a lie, and you know it.

Julia 1:16:12

No, no, no. I'm like, I will, but I hate myself every time she's like, oh, should we do the rebellion? Wait, does everyone hate me?

Jessica Mary 1:16:27

The important thing is that she is no longer going, I think of PETA as a la friend. Friendver? No.

Julia 1:16:35

A friend with benefits.

Jessica Mary 1:16:37

She's yeah, she's just rubbing pearls on her face like you do, which I hate it. Wasn't creepy at all.

Julia 1:16:44

The fucking part where they're like, you can fuck Gail. It's totally like I fucking pissed. That part pissed me off so much because I was like, you are diluting her to a fucking side character, like to a romance partner.

Jessica Mary 1:16:58

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the weird part about that scene. The weird part about that scene is that the adults around her are 50 plus years old going, oh, do you just want to fuck your cousin?

Julia 1:17:08

Because we can but they know it's not, they know it's not. Yeah.

Jessica Mary 1:17:11

Yeah, do we want do we want to rebrand that and just be like, oh, well, in District 12, it's A-OK to fuck your cousin? I mean, that's fine. We'll do that. We'll put that out. It'll be in the next memo that goes out. It'll be tattooed. It'll be tattooed on everybody in the morning. You can fuck your cousin in District 13. It's totally fine.

Julia 1:17:26

Is that where that conversation? I okay. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking weird. Yeah. The whole thing is strange. The fact that he's brought up is strange because she's not talking about him at all. And she doesn't even bring him up in that context. She's just like No, it's literally like I want Pita to get immunity, and they're like, Do you want to fuck your cousin? She's like. No.

Jessica Mary 1:17:49

She's she's like, I like, how did we get here? I just I would like my friend Gail to come with me on hunts so that I have company. Oh, so you want to fuck your cousin? I I don't understand where you people are coming from.

Julia 1:18:00

Yeah.

Jessica Mary 1:18:00

Or what your lives were like, but no. Anyway. Anywho.

Julia 1:18:06

I don't I don't feel as excited about this book as I did about the other two.

Jessica Mary 1:18:11

The only reason that I have a different level of excitement is because I know all of the characters that I love dearly are Yeah, yeah.

Julia 1:18:21

We get it.

Jessica Mary 1:18:21

Yeah.

Julia 1:18:23

We get it the other books.

Jessica Mary 1:18:26

You don't get it. Every page is like ripping out my heart. The only one that I'm not excited to read is Battle of Song Birds and Snakes, because I did not think that the next one. Yeah, that's the next one. I didn't finish that one because I was like, eh.

Julia 1:18:43

Well, you're gonna have to now.

Jessica Mary 1:18:45

I'm so upset about it. But that's fine.

Julia 1:18:48

That's fine. It'll happen soon. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Jessica Mary 1:18:52

I think we're done.

Julia 1:18:53

On that positive energetic note.

Jessica Mary 1:18:57

Peanuts. Peanuts, penis, penis.

Julia 1:19:01

We don't have that anymore because we can't refer to them together. I'm so mad about it.

Jessica Mary 1:19:08

That's why their third third chickname was Everlark. Because the internet would have just peanuts. It's peanuts. It's right.

Julia 1:19:16

Anyway. It's right there. Good night, ladies.

Outro 1:19:20

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