"Invincible" by Robert Kirkman Issues 1-7 (Ep. 14)

Episode Fourteen is here! Ben and Antonio dive into Invincible by Robert Kirkman, breaking down issues 1 through 7 of this iconic superhero series. This week we explore a world full of heroes, Mark Grayson’s coming-of-age as Invincible, and the shocking twist that changes everything.

Be part of the discussion on Instagram: @KickbackComics_Pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hey there, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Kickback Comics. My name is Antonio. My name is Ben, and y'all are listening to a comic book podcast. By two guys who have not read a lot of comics but are looking to get involved, read some cool stories, get superpowers, fly around with our dads, and fight evil.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Yep, that's what we're doing over here at Kickback Comics. This is our new hobby. We're doing a book club. Thank you guys so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

This is uh this is a special episode this time. This is a special episode. We got we got guests. We got guests this time. Friends.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Friends, friends on the pod. First time. Let's get it. What's up, guys? What's going on?

SPEAKER_04 0:39

Okay, man. It's Maximil. Money get a 445. My name is Jaden, aka Light Skin Soldier. You already know. Beautiful. Welcome to the pod, boys. Welcome, boys.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Thank you for having us. Glad we made it happen.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Appreciate you guys. This has been in the works for a minute, I feel like, and we finally made it happen.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, this is really the goal, like next era of kickback comics for this coming year is we're trying to be as collaborative as possible and just have um friends and and family and whatever pull up and talk about books with us, trying to expand uh the conversation a little bit. So good to be here. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Overdue.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Overdue.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Overdue for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yeah, for sure. So this week we read Invincible. Invincible issues one through seven, which is kind of crazy, bro. We're like thrown all the way back to like when did it? I guess we'll talk about it, but it came out a minute ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, it came it came out a minute ago. Let me do uh before we actually get into actual Invincible, let's just let's get let's talk a little more, Max and Jaden, and uh figure out your guys' like context. Like Max, like are you a comic book guy? Have you read much comics?

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Like I I love comics, like and Invincible is like the one that I haven't touched. Like I feel like that and like Spawn, I haven't really touched that much. Oh, we're about to we might actually be able to do that. We might be doing spawn sound, yeah. I might be doing that. Yeah, no, Invincible I haven't touched.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I've only seen like clips, gotcha. Yeah, I feel the same, same thing. Yeah, same thing. I haven't even I haven't watched it, nothing like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And like nerd nerd stuff in general, like what like all of us here, like we're all media guys, we all like fuck with music and and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

And like what what type of I'm I'm deep, like my closet is full of like straight comic books and Funko pop. So like that's that's all it is. Really? Besides the clothes, but fire.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah. What what about you, Jaden? Same uh same questions, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Yeah, I've have not gotten much into Invincible, but um however, spawn. Yeah, that's one of the ones.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I love that he's clean.

SPEAKER_05 2:24

All right, he's clean. HBO, but I I love Marvel, love DC.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I've seen you making some like uh MCU type content online.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

Yeah, I have um I don't know, recently MCU hasn't been doing it for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

But um amazing takes from I gotta say.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, we'll we'll obviously we'll drop the socials for everybody um in the Instagram post and whatever. But uh yeah, give give them a follow, tap into these guys.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Thank you, thank you. Appreciate you, bro.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Um, all right, let's let's jump into Invincible a little bit. Uh so here on the dossier, I got some uh some general background stats. Yeah, exactly. So the writer and creator is Robert Kirkman. Yes uh also co-creator, the original artist Corey Walker. So this is an interesting, like Robert Kirkman, he keeps writing Invincible the whole run, like all the way through. After this issue, the artist changes to this guy Ryan Otley. And Ryan Otley is the one that's actually like more uh credited for being the invincible artist, even though he didn't start it. He was sort of like a young up and comer and he locked in on Invincible and just went crazy. Like his the art um becomes freaking incredible. Not that it's not like the art is is very cool to begin with, but um Ryan Otley is like like I have like both times I went to Comic-Con in LA, he had a booth, like I got two things signed by him. It was like huge, like he's like one of them guys, especially since Invincible popped off. I feel like that made gave him even more clout, but for sure. Um but yeah, it's one of those where it's like the the original artist is one of the co-creators, and then they ended up passing it off to this other guy, Ryan Otley, who kind of sees it through, right? Um the color artist is Bill Crabtree, and the letter is a Russ Wooten, which I feel like Loki, we've we've read some other say that that name anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Well, we'll we'll figure it out. But yes, shout out Russ.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, um, so the publisher is Image Comics, which we've talked a little bit before. But some context for you guys too, it which you might not know is Image was originally founded by a bunch of guys from Marvel who basically jumped out to do their own thing, I think in like the 90s, and a big part of that was because Marvel and DC and like a ton of different entertainment industry companies in general, but they don't let the creatives own the intellectual property um for the stuff they come up with, and that was like Image's whole idea is basically like people will come right for us, and then the the stuff that they're publishing through us, they own the rights to their own stories, basically.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Does Image have another one? Like, what's the other big image?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

They have a ton. Another one of the other big ones is actually also Robert Kirkman. It's Walking Dead. Okay. Walking Dead Went Crazy. Spawn is also Image. Spawn is one of the one of the founders. He Spawn was like his his own thing. Crazy. Um, Image Now has a whole bunch of stuff. Uh we've read a bunch, like it's sort of a lot like obviously we all know Marvel people. We all know DC people. If it's a comic and it's not Marvel in DC, it's most likely Image. There's another one called Dark Horse, which does um cool stuff. Like that's like Hellboy. They usually which is on our list too. Hellboy is actually incredible. And it is. Um but regardless, that's just a little little image uh context. Like we I fuck with image. And Invincible was a big part of uh I think making image as big as it is now, especially since a show came out, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Um, but let's see. So the first issue of Invincible, it was uh put out in January 2003. Whoa. And it ran up until 2018, which was the final issue. So this is one of those things where it was a little bit slept on in the early days, but it ended up getting a good enough fan base that it went all the way, you know, what, 15 years, something like that?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, so what we're reading today is from 2003. From 2003. Or older than me.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Which kind of and then that's crazy. Yeah, so it's like I think it was ahead of its time in a lot of ways. We'll we'll I'm sure we'll have conversations about that, but like it feels very meta and everything and like it's interesting to think about how people would have been experiencing this in literally 2003. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

The artwork kind of did give me some type of like older vibe rather than I was gonna say the first couple issues very like nostalgic art for sure. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

I definitely agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

If it feels like it's a throwback to like old comics, just in general, and you guys will see I'll I'll show you some more art um for what I'll we'll we'll talk more about Ryan Otley in a minute, but I'll I'll just show you guys some of the art of like when it gets in like the meat of the story. It's crazy. Some of like the coolest art. Another thing that Ryan Otley is really known for is like if you watch the show at all, you know it's really violent and gory, which you're not expecting, especially from the little intro. You don't we don't realize how violent and how like R-rated that violence gets. And he's really known for blood. So like he'll just like have whole page like blood splat everywhere. Like, um, and that's like one of his like his things.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

One of his things very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Um, but yeah, let's see, let's wrap up wrap up the stats here, real quick. Uh, it basically did it ran for 144 issues coming out monthly. Wow, 15-year uninterrupted run with a single writer, and that's like really rare in superhero storytelling, especially. Like it'll be passed around like so many artists, so many so many, yeah. You know, but Invincible, literally start to finish, same guy, 15 years uninterrupted, start finish, crazy. Damn. Um series became one of Image's most successful comics, millions of copies sold worldwide. Uh the books remained consistently popular because of the like different formats they'd reissue it in. Um, and then obviously the uh the show popped off and and made it even bigger than it ever was while it was uh you know being put out month to month. Right. And then also uh Robert Kirkman is also known for The Walking Dead, Marvel Zombies, Ultimate X-Men, um, among some other stuff, and then obviously the Invincible show premiered in 2021. Wow. And uh and the executive producer and creator of the show is Robert Kirkman.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

It shows you how long you gotta wait sometimes for seriously. Yeah. I mean, he's cooking.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And the show's cooking. So the show for me, like I I watched the show that year it came out, and that was that was like during COVID era still. And also my That probably helped, honestly. I was gonna say for sure. And also that it coincided with when I was just starting to get interested in comics and reading them on my own. And um I went and like I loved the show so much, I went and got the comic, which I'm sure happened for so many, so many people. Um, but then I told myself I wasn't I was just gonna read up until the end of season one, like with the show, and then I would stop and wait for the show. Yeah, and I was like, you just kept going. I just kept going. Yeah. So um Invincible was one of the first comics I like read start to finish, and it was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah, I well, this is gonna be, I mean, it's hard for me to not continue reading after the last issue of this. I was like, bro, I feel like we're back to the next one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

It's like that with the show as well, which we'll we'll we'll talk about this the big twist. But um what did in uh I guess in a general sense, before we get into like details or spoilers or whatever, like what did you guys think? Did you guys fuck with it?

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Like what was the I really liked it, I'll say I I what I was thinking was I mean, getting to the end, it was crazy, obviously, but the first like two, three chapters, I kind of thought it was like a risk almost. Cause it's like it's it's very heavily based on like the foreshadowing, I feel like. Right. So it's very, it's very normal, but it uh obviously it picks up. But I I liked it a lot, actually.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

I respected the tonal change towards the end. Yeah, yeah. I really because it seemed pretty peaceful at first, in my opinion. I and I enjoy that as well. Like comics are like optimistic a lot, but I don't know that tonal change at the end. Even though I kind of knew what was already coming, I've seen a little bit of it. It's just like, oh, okay, this is how it unfolds. Alright, what's going on next? Right, right. So what about you, bro?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, dude, it was it was super wild. I you know, that's such a um it was interesting, obviously, to see this, like you said, this tonal change. And I think that um, you know, I think actually going off of what Max said, this idea of like it kind of being like a risk in the beginning, because it is very much like you know, setting up for like I mean a lot of these issues are like setting up for what's next or whatever else, right? And so like it is a very interesting thing to like try and get people interested off of that kind of storytelling rather than like automatically getting into the action automatically, whatever else. Um and I think you know they find some ways I think to keep people hooked that are pretty interesting. I think like Omni Man as a person himself is like a just an interesting figure to kind of be like trying to figure out like the whole time. Um, but I liked it, I thought it was super interesting. It definitely made me want to read more of it. What about you, Ben? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, I mean, I like I mentioned before, I read this uh in in like 2021, 2022, something like that. How's the reread? Reread's great. I mean, I'm gonna keep going. That's another thing I was gonna say. Like we it could be an option. We haven't even talked scheduling for this stuff too. But one if you guys are enjoying this, like one thing we could do is every we could do like once a month or whatever, we do another seven chapters. Like if you want, we could do the four of us. We could just over the next like we could just run through invincible if you guys want. I'd love to. Yeah, bro. I'm down. Well, I mean, that would like we can we can have offline combos about that. But I'm gonna keep reading this, bro. Like for sure. Yeah, it's tough. I'm reading regardless. I think it's worth it regardless. And if we're all reading it, we might as well talk about it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Um, which is the whole idea of the pod. Exactly, bro. So let's just uh so that we can talk uh you know, jump around and and talk spoilers or whatever. Let me just read the uh the little summary that I got together here. Um one thing we're gonna do a little different in this episode, if you guys are returning listeners, is instantly. Thank you for stuff for being a returning listener, but yeah, go ahead, man. Yeah, facts. We have some, bro. Yeah, we didn't get out there. They hit us up.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

That's celebrating. Yeah, we exactly we're celebrating.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

And uh basically instead of doing chapter to chapter summaries, we're just gonna do like one little mega summary of this whole seven issue chunk and just have more of like a free form conversation about uh about it.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, so get in those comments, tell us, tell us what you think. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, no doubt. Uh so here we go. The opening arc of Invincible uh issues one through seven uh introduce Mark Grayson, a regular high school kid growing up in a world where superheroes are a normal part of everyday life. His father, Omni Man, is the planet's most powerful hero. And when Mark finally develops powers of his own at 17, he begins training to become a hero under his father's guidance, and he takes on the name Invincible. So early issues mix classic superhero uh action like alien invasions, supervillains, team-ups with other young heroes, uh, and then also Mark trying to balance school, friendships, um, first potential relationships, that sort of thing. So at the same time, the comic quietly plays on and reflects with like familiar superhero tropes, like legacy heroes, government-run super superhero teams, and the expectation is placed on the next generation of heroes. So what begins is sort of this bright, almost traditional superhero coming of age story, kind of gradually builds tension, and then in chapter seven there's this big shocking dramatic twist, uh, which we'll get into, and and that sort of sets up a new tone and uh you know a much darker arc for the story going forward.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah. Yeah, crazy. You know what's wild? You know what's probably the most wild first thing that I can say? Bro, I didn't even know his name was Invincible. I just thought that that was like the the name of the comic and whatever else. I did not know he was gonna be like, oh yeah, my name is Invincible when I get my powers and whatever else.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

So that was not a bad name.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah, yeah. You let people know like off the jump.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Um that's a that that brings up a good point though. Also, just out of the four of us, who's watched the show or some of the show? Seen some of his okay literal clips. Yeah. Yeah, I've just seen clips. I'm just clips. Yeah. So I've seen the show, Jaden's seen some of the show. And like the memes.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

The memes, the memes. Like the I've also seen like the running gag of like the title card. That's the main thing I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Right, right. Which is every time so the title card is that like there'll be some point in the episode where he goes, like, because I'm invincible. And it just like, instead of him saying it, it just cuts the title. Yeah. And then the other thing, I like that. There's a lot of creative stuff like that in the show. And then another thing it does is each episode, it's more covered in blood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Right. So by the end of the yeah, I feel like we talked about something like that before. I mean, we almost experienced that with Watchmen a little bit. Right. And I wonder.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Well, you're saying in Watchmen, the the each chapter there's like a clock, and the clock is getting closer to midnight, and there's like blood dripping down and these chapters get more and more bloody as time goes on.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Great, great connection. Crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Have you seen Omni Man's um Mortal Kombat finishers? Oh, yeah. It was so fun playing as him. I was maining as him for a minute. Yeah. Hell yeah. It was but I, you know, they take the inspiration from everything. Like they literally will rip things out of there and put it in the show. But it looked very gory on screen for Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat's the right place for him.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

It is crazy. Well, that's what's that's what's wild too, is you guys, you guys haven't even seen that much of Omni Man or gotten the feel of it. And it that's part of what's so interesting, and and something I really want to talk about is like we we've only read the first seven chapters, and it feels like it feels so different from what the whole arc of Invincible ends up becoming. Right. I'm sure but it's still I mean, it's still, you know, I think like enjoyable chapters to read. It's not like there's nothing going on, but it's very much just sort of like scene setting.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Like, well, it's almost kind of fun trying to like figure it out because I f I found myself like yeah, having this kind of idea of what like Omniaman was like, and then obviously seeing this where he's like, he's like seeming like a pretty regular data, like, oh, this guy's like from a different planet, billion miles away, but he's like a chill guy, and he's just like trying to like keep everybody safe and whatever else. And then I mean, I don't know if this is like jumping too far ahead, but there's like that moment, right, where he and Mark are fighting against these like alien guys, and there's like the split second where you like see him and you're like, oh no, like that's who that guy really is. I I I I screenshotted that too. Like I tried to put that in my notes because what what he says is he's like Yeah, I've got it in my notes also.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yeah, what's he what's he say, bro?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Let's see. He says, he says, get off my planet first, and then my is emphasized. Right, right. And then Mark is like, dad, but yeah, you just see him like looking so angry in a way, yeah, that you just like have not seen this character act at all. And then seeing like the aliens after that, like looking like um I almost I don't know if it's like sad or like almost like afraid or whatever else, but yeah, that's like the only glimpse that you get until the end of this. And we'll I feel like we'll save the ending ending for a little bit later, but like that was I feel like the first moment for me where I was like, okay, this is now we're getting into some of the the craziness that's going on. There's some there's something else going on.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Mark had a day kind of giving like a reality check there, and like, dad, dad, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

What are you doing? Right, yeah. Yeah, seeing I think that's the other thing is like seeing that was the other obviously you see like Omni Man being like angry, but like Mark having that moment of being like dad, like literally not even like recognizing right, yeah, not recognizing like the person in front of him almost is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

He omnian was also talking, he was saying, Um, yeah, I prefer not to think about things like that, you know, like just keep it pushing, basically.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, yeah, very true, very, very true. Yeah, and the fact I mean, yeah, so he's from it's Viltrum, right? Which is a billion billion miles away. Utopia, they're sent to all these different planets. It's interesting. I mean, we gotta figure out why he because he chose Earth even after the council of people on his planet was like, hey, don't go there, they're super dumb and underdeveloped, bro. Don't do it. And he went there anyway. And so there's gotta be some reason, yeah, some extra shit that's going on there. Yeah. And I don't know what it is, but it's part of the mystery.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Obviously, we have, yeah. Hey, for all for all of us at one point or another. Yeah, seriously. Um, let me just open the book back up real quick and and see how things uh things open up. Like uh I had some I had some thoughts about uh panels, which we've been talking about. It's also so interesting looking at this and thinking about how like this was 2003. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's cool. There's uh the the panel layout. We've talked a lot, like Antonio and I've talked about panels, trying to talk learn about like all the different artists and comics use the panels in such different ways. But you don't think about obviously you kind of are just like taking in the story, but then when you zoom out, it's like these are sort of on way more of a traditional square grid. Um like way more akin to like Watchmen per se than some of the new DC, like absolute Batman or whatever stuff. Like they're they're just going way crazier with the the panels and the pages versus the they're really using um you know these these more traditional square and rectangular panels to show time passing.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

The other thing they do that I think is is really cool is the uh the word bubbles like break the break the border. Yeah, yeah. And then instead of taking up like obviously sometimes they take up space in the panel, but like when they can, they'll just have it go at like the top and uh it kind of like the line interrupts. Do you see what I'm saying in today?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, no, I know I know exactly what you're saying. It's interesting. I mean, yeah, this is very much like contained within each of those panels. I think, yeah, I mean it's interesting. I'm looking at a couple of these now. I think the only things that usually or at all kind of crossover lines are like the booms and you know cracks and all the different like sound effects and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

I was gonna say one of the things that like kept me really looped, like first time reading it, is the the first page always has like some type of foreshadowing. So it brings you back in right at the end. I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, that is a very interesting thing. I noticed that same kind of thing as well. Like I was I was trying to figure out like 100% if I was yeah, what I guess I was piecing together there, but you're you're 100% right. It's like every issue um uh image, I guess, in the front, you know, kind of like every chapter or whatever else has, yeah, like you said, foreshadowing or like something that is like pulled out of probably one of the most interesting moments of the chapter, which yeah, also leaves us back to that conversation before where we talked about it was kind of risky to do like so much like foreshadowing in this. But every chapter started with that stuff. And I mean they also do it with the beginning of this. I didn't even thought about it when I was reading it, but the beginning of this literally starts with um where he well, yeah, where he I can't remember if it's where he talks about that, but like the first thing that he does is that he there the first thing that they show is literally him uh is is Mark Invincible flying with like the guy with the bomb strapped to him. Like that's the first thing they show, and it really like does not make any sense in the beginning. And it's funny, I didn't even think about it until um coming back to it later, but that's like literally the first two pages or first first three pages. Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Jumping off of that, like I think one of the coolest, like one of this will become clearer as it goes on, but like one of the things about Invincible is it is basically I don't want to say parodying because it's trying to do it in like a celebratory way, but the whole thing is just like all commentary on superhero storytelling in general. And it's all like especially the beginning is where all it's all of these super familiar to us like basic things because it's like, oh, they have to deal with high school, they have the parents, what you know. Um getting the suit, but it's the setting for this specifically. Usually in superhero storytelling, it's like the superheroes are relatively unique, or the idea of being a superhero is new, like spite- they're like, what's happening to me? Like, what's my butt? Right? It's like what's so unique about this setting is how normal and everyday, like the expectation is that there's superheroes everywhere. Right. And I think we are so used to that now in sort of a meta context, because we have all grown up with all this superhero content out. It's just way more part of like normal culture, normal conversation, media we interact with and all sorts of stuff. Like this was so much more niche back then. So it's like interesting having us like wrap our heads around this type of storytelling now probably would have been weirder or like appealed to like a smaller niche of people back then. But you can already see some of it in this, but it it gets funnier and goofier and um cooler. Like we can see it a little bit in the the final chapter of this one where it it it introduces us to like five different characters that are very clearly just like a one to one rip of people we're you're supposed to know. Yeah, literally. It's this.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

I was like, oh, maybe they're making like a little poke at Batman. And then I went to the next chapter and I was like, okay, now we're like really yeah, now that's That's just Batman.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

That's literally just Batman. Right. Especially with uh, what's his name? Green Man. Green Man was the other one that I was like, oh, this is straight up just Green Lantern. Oh, Green Lantern. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

I don't know. I like the I like the character designs. Yeah, the designs are dope. Yeah. Even the um Invincible's first suit. Oh, that yellow yellow. Or like oh, even before that though, like the more of like the vigilante type of thing. Oh the one he just makes himself. Yeah. I really like that. Reminded me of like homecoming.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yeah, I was gonna say it's nice that they do, they do kind of have that like, you know, to a certain extent, I guess, like cliche, but kind of thing where they make their own suit at the beginning, and that's like the kind of first like outing and whatever else. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

This whole thing is just is filled with cliche, but it's interesting, but it's like it's for like there's a point to it. It's intentional. It's intentional cliche, you know. It's also funny to think about just like the like going off the costumes, like they're like, oh yeah, you need your superhero costume, so we're gonna go to the guy that makes everybody's costume, and it's one guy.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

The the Edna mode. The Edna mode, yeah, of this universe. Bro, I'm looking at this too, like there is a bunch of funny stuff. I wish I had kept track of like all of them, but there's so much like funny, random stuff that goes on in the background. What I'm noticing here is that also the high school that they go to is called Reginald Vell Johnson High School. I don't know if anybody watched um Family Matters. Have you ever heard of that show? Like Steve Urkel, bro. The dad, the person who plays the dad in that show, his name is literally Reginald Vell Johnson. Like I'm wondering if that's what they're like specifically pulling from. Yeah. Which is so random.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I mean, so much of this story, I mean, in in these chapters too, and also going forward, is uh really funny. It's all just like weird little references to stuff, like we're supposed to be like that, like the DiCaprio meme where you were like, oh, it's like it's supposed to have, you know, that's really the point. Right. Um the other thing, you know, it's there's so many things in these chapters, like different moments where we see how normal superheroes are. Like there's the bit where like he's flying around with Adam Eve. We should talk about the teen team in a second to examine, but like he's flying around with Adam Eve, and they're they're just like, okay, well, where do we go to like take off? People just don't look up. We just go. Yeah, I love that. And then they don't um she doesn't have a mask. Like everyone, like nobody that's and they acknowledge that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

She's like, How did how did you they're like, how did you know it was us? And he's like, dude, you're literally not even wearing a mask.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Like, how would I you're my students?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

I literally just saw you today. Like, you cannot you cannot mess with me. I also I'm also just reading this right now, and I'm I'm noticing again something that I was thinking when I was reading through this, is that the the moment when um like Invincible uh Mark is uh at school again, like after kind of getting most of his powers, and he has that like um moment with like the bully very much reminded me of like the Spider-Man like thing where he like pushes him in a lock or whatever else, and the locker just like crumples or whatever else. Yeah. So there's there's definitely a lot of stuff that they're poking fun at for sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

There was uh there's one in like the later chapter, I think it was chapter seven, where uh his friend William was like, dude, when did you get superpowers? And he'd say, how would you know that? Right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, it's like autumn, yeah, automatically it's out the bag, which but they're setting up, I guess, again, another classic cliche, the best friend who knows that they have superpowers.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yeah, you know, but he was trying to hide it's super obvious. Obviously, he jumped over a building. Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

It is crazy too. Like we see the like the flashback. I think you just pulled that up, you're about to talk about it, Antonio, maybe, but like how he grew up with uh like his dad is the is the Superman equivalent, right? Like we said in like the end of that Justice League thing, like all there's all these different heroes that are clearly supposed to like be referential to a thing, right? Omni Man, we haven't talked about this explicitly, but Omni Man is the Superman of Earth, right? Like he's he can fly, he had like basically all the same powers. He's like Superman with a mustache, basically. Type, you know, that's the archetype that he's following. Um, and Mark, Mark Grayson, Invincible, grew up with his dad being like, Yeah, like when you hit puberty, eventually you're just gonna become a superhero like me, probably. Yeah, and he had to spend his whole life just preparing for that, you know. It's very funny. It's funny how how blasé they have, like the way, like I don't know, I I feel like I'm not doing a good job articulating this, but the the ways in which superheroes being so normal is both like a funny thing and also a cool thing in the plot. Like it's it's very that's just the the expectation. It's like, oh, you got powers, cool, start go go attacking people. Like get a cost, like you gotta get a costume, go stop some robberies. Like it happened. You're going. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

Like abrupt, I felt. But it was cool. But yeah, yeah. I feel like did they time jump like two weeks and he's already like on top of the roof? I remember seeing he was on top of the roof, like about a jump off of like flying. I think it was like a two-month. Yeah, two-month.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

That was actually that's actually another like random kind of like panel adjacent type thing that I feel like I noticed in here was like there's there's a lot of stuff that like you jump like time-wise. Like you flip the page and it's like we're in a totally another different scene, we're jumping around, like whatever else. And that happens, I feel like a lot in this, which which I thought was I don't I thought was interesting. Like, I don't know, I wouldn't say like necessarily that I either like specifically liked it or disliked it, but I think it felt like slightly different from some of the other stuff that we have read before for sure. Like it felt like it was very fast, I feel like in general.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

I feel like it could be crucial to like what it is now today. Like, I feel like that was probably the best build-up they could have done to keep everyone in it.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 27:23

Because they still establish the characters in like this origin pretty well. Yeah. Even being so quick. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

But one way going off of that, I think uh they do a really good job of like each chapter, they introduce a new concept to us basically. Yeah. It kind of expands our understanding. So like in the beginning, it kind of sets up the uh like becoming a superhero, like Spider-Man or whatever, Superman, but with a built-in like father-son dynamic. Like he's gonna like learn from his dad how to do this, right? Then like in the second chapter, it we get introduced to like the Guardians of the Globe or the teen team, where they're like literally government-sponsored uh superhero teams, and we're like, oh whoa, okay, so that's a thing. There's just these different agencies and people doing stuff. The next one is uh more just like Mark trying to juggle uh going to high school and being a hero, right? Um, then there's uh the Alan the Alien introduction, which is starting to get us an idea of like there's a whole all these other planets.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

That's another very starting involved. That whole situation is just like so randomly. It was just like so randomly weird of him just being like, Oh my god, like I've been going to the wrong planet this whole time. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, whatever it was called.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Yeah, I love I love how well are we able to elaborate more. Yeah, go, yeah, jump in. Oh, I I love how like um invent or Mark kind of solved it. It just like can we just talk? Yeah, yeah. I love that, like using like your actual brain cells rather than your power, but like the fact that he was he was like holding his breath up there and still being able to like to fight.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

I think that's a yeah, like this dude is invincible, like this dude is right, yeah. No, for real. I think that's I mean that's a great point. I think that like I mean, even it's something also that the mom like re makes a remark at it's also interesting. Like, do we ever like we haven't heard her name in this entire thing so far, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I think I I don't know. Her name's Debbie. Uh I'm pretty sure. Is it it's Debbie from the show, right? It's gotta be. Maybe I didn't maybe I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

But I don't I don't think they actually say it's if they say her name, it's like once.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

That's interesting. That's an interesting thing to bring up too, because I noticed that in my read, my reread was like the the mom is definitely way more of a passive role. Like in the show, she is one of the like she's such a uh she becomes a much bigger character in the story. In the comic too, I'll say. But especially even in these first seven chapters or something.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

You get all the conversations that she has with the show.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Part of the thing that's that's interesting, like why that like not that these first seven issues were boring, but like less is happening. Part of again, me circling back to the same the superheroes being normal thing. Part of what's interesting in this story is so much of what we're seeing is just like normal life stuff. It's like Mark talking to his dad. Mark they're trying to have dinner with the mom. Like it's all like instead of it's like the same, oh, dad's gonna be late to the office, like let's just start eating without him. But it's like because he's in China fighting a dragon or whatever. Um so that's another one of those things where it's almost this weird contrast where everything is so crazy and goofy and ridiculous, but the shots that like most of what they're showing us is very normal, relatable stuff within the ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Right, within the yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think one of the things that I was thinking about with um with the mom there though is that she also is one of the people that like acknowledges and says to like Omniman about um Mark's conversation with Alan, right? Is that she's like, you know, maybe she says to Omniman, like maybe you should like use your brains more than your bronze. Right, yeah, you can learn a thing or two from your son. And I think I mean again, I haven't seen like really any of this and don't know much beyond these these chapters, but it seems that like you know, Mark is I think gonna be shown as like not his dad. Yeah, I think that that's really how it's gonna be. You guys can't see it listening to this, but Ben's smile makes me think that I'm I'm right. Hey, I'm just I just can you know think man think.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah. Uh we should definitely just like jump into the the full like we should start having a conversation about what happens in the final chapter so we can have a larger conversation. But going off of what you just said, you just reminded me of something too, where I feel like that was another little moment of like a dark foreshadowing about his dad, too, where Mark pulled up and is fighting this guy who is pretty clearly goofy. Right. So like he's just being like, and Mark is able to just listen to him and with a pretty basic conversation, like get it straightened out. Yeah, and the dad he comes home and he's like, Did you defeat him? He's like, I talked to him. And you can see the dad's like, You what? Yeah, you know, like, yeah, yeah. There was literally one panel of him just staring. Right, right. Right, right. You see the dawn in it. Which we can interpret that in a bunch of a bunch of ways. Like, oh, obviously, like he could learn from it, but it's also like, oh, his dad never would have thought to talk to this guy. Yeah, the dad was just fighting him, and also the dad is so like kind of thrown off that Mark wouldn't just fight him right away. He didn't even, he never even he didn't tell him, yeah, he never thought that Mark would do anything different other than pull up and just immediately fight. Right. So there's like it's another one of those little moments where it doesn't come across that weird in the at the time, but then in hindsight, you're like, wait, yeah, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Should we should we just oh no, you guys? I was gonna say one thing that there's stuff in here that I'm like recognizing now. I think I realized it when I was first reading it for sure, but like obviously we have that moment where Mark has that weird interaction with his dad that like tells us that there's something going on. But the the callousness with which it uh Omni Man deals with the kids who have like bombs strapped to them as well, where he's like, he literally is like you know, yelling at this kid to wake up and he's like, you know, tell me who did this to you, and he's like, did what? So the kid doesn't even know what's going on, right? He's been woken up on this bench in this mall with a bomb on him, and he and Omni Man just turns and throws him out the hole that he just made in the ceiling, and the kid just blows up. And the other thing is like they also just like don't even really talk about it. Like that like never comes up again. That like like they're about to, and obviously then Omni Man gets like yanked into the other dimension or whatever else, but they literally just don't even talk about the fact that he just like threw some kid outside, and then the kid blew up.

SPEAKER_05 33:21

Is that like a normal thing in that universe? Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Must be. I mean, that Mark did it too. He threw the teacher just straight out the Antarctica. I mean, at least he tried a little harder, but you know, people were just dying left and right.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, it's another example of just how crazy, like it's another hint of how there like there's this darker stuff going on. For for some listeners, maybe who haven't read it, like with the plot that we're talking about right now is there's somebody who keeps kidnapping high schoolers and then turning their bodies into a bomb that then like when they get up from consciousness, they're just gonna explode. It's a pretty dark, like it's not like oh, someone's robbing a bank. It's like someone is making children die bomb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think anyone made it. Right. No, no, they didn't. And my and you can also see how like obviously this is like tra traumatizing to Mark to some extent, but also he's handling it pretty good, pretty easily.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

It's like these are kids that I also know. Like, and I mean it's it's it's funny like interaction that he has with Eve at one point where he's like they're talking about it, and he's like, Well, like, you know, they weren't like that. Couldn't happen. It's a nicer group of guys like that. Right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Because we find out later they're being tar like the this teacher, it's a teacher that's doing it, and he's targeting like the bullies and like the rich, like he's targeting the worst kids in the high school, basically, because he's like, My son died because he got bullied or whatever. I think is his motivation.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, it's basically that, and then like he's like, Okay, my son committed suicide, and then my wife and I got a divorce, and now I like hate popular kids who like annoy me in class. So I'm gonna kill him. So I'm gonna kill him with suicide vests.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

And the only time you see Mark really showing any type of emotion is where he found one of the kids and the basement or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

That they didn't even know was gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy and then blew up. Yeah. Yeah. Insane.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Should we, just so that we don't have to keep dancing around it, and we can obviously go back and talk about stuff earlier, but let's talk about chapter seven. Like, I'm gonna get the book open real quick. Let's just talk about uh let's talk about what goes down in in this chapter. Man lay it down. Well, I mean, basically we in uh it in simplest terms, we just get introduced to a bunch of characters that are like one-to-ones basically of the Justice League from DC. We see a guy that's like a parody of Batman, we see a parody of Wonder Woman, The Flash, The Flash, right? Like all of these classic guys, and we basically just get um a couple pages for each of them that actually like it's such good storytelling. I feel like like we were able to get a little idea about who these guys are and what their deal is. They each get what? Like, here's that Batman, like they each get four pages. Everyone's getting screen time. Right. And we get we're like, okay, we hear these people. It's weird, honestly, that they didn't introduce them over the over the chapters, like they didn't have one, all at once. Yeah, which I think I remember reading, like uh I should have I should have looked into this deeper, but I think one of the things I remember is Invincible maybe wasn't doing super well in the beginning, like uh in terms of sales. And so I think the author was planning on introducing this whole arc a little slower. But the I think probably the publisher was like, hey man, like this isn't selling that good, and he was like, Alright, I just gotta move the timeline up. So makes sense. Um I'm just putting that together now, but I think that checks out for because it does sort of feel a little rushed to me. Yeah, definitely. But basically, what happens is we we get introduced to all these cool heroes, we get a little glimpse into their like personal life, so we like them, we get to see a little bit of them using their powers right now.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

They're fighting crime, they're doing what they gotta do, they have lives. Wonder Woman's got a girlfriend or whatever else. They're like, you know, they also talk about Wonder Woman's mom, which is kind of funny for us since we read Wonder Woman a little while ago. But yeah, they're like giving us all these little like backstories, except for the fish guy. He does not get a lot of.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Invincible's so funny. I feel like it only gets funnier too. But like in this one, the this guy's fighting a guy that's clearly just vulture from Spider-Man, but he's called like Hang glider or something. Yeah, what's he called?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

He's called I just notice Batman's also fighting like the penguin. Oh, biplane, yeah. This guy called Biplane. When fighting the penguin. His name in Darkwing. That's just right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

It's it's pretty clear. But basically, they're all throughout this whole chapter, we see they're all getting a call to action. Like, we gotta go to the base and meet up because something's happening.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

And they're so cool and they're so strong, and we have only been hearing like good things about them. They're like they're protecting Earth and all this kind of stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

And then they just they die. They all die brutally brutally one by one, yeah. Snap that we just see they're like this. Is also just the beginning of us starting to see some gore, like their heads are getting decapitated, their necks getting totally twisted around, their guts are popping out of their stomachs. And they only get two two pages of this, right? Um, and we see uh, you know, what's this guy? The Immortal, I think is his name. And he's like, You coward, show yourself, you know, whatever, turned around, and it's it's Mark's dad, it's Omni Man. And he's like, you know, he never he this uh Immortal says, uh, you I never liked you, and we just see the you know, he's standing there covered in blood over all their dead bodies, and he just says the feeling was mutual. Yeah, um so cold. That's a gold line. Yeah, so what was it like? I mean, this was a surprise for you guys, I think. Was it a surprise? I mean, I'm sure we've seen some stuff, right? But I'd actually seen the scene of this.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

I just didn't like I didn't correlate because it was so long ago. Yeah, so seeing it all, I was like, oh cool, you know, Justice League, oh my god, they're all gone. Like it was the fastest switch up ever.

SPEAKER_05 38:39

But yeah, crazy. I was wondering when that switch was gonna happen. Like I thought it would have been later on, like maybe like at uh issue 12 or something. You know what I mean? But I'm glad that they kind of did that right then and there because it's it it I can see how it will bring back people. Yeah, like how did okay, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

I mean it did it to us, right? It's like that's I already feel like I gotta read more of this. I was like, I was getting to the end of it, and I was like, okay, I gotta read more to the more of this anyway, just because I feel like I'm not getting like everything that I need. And then I got to the end of that and I was like, oh shit. It's time to go. Yeah, it's time to go. It's crazy. Yeah, and I mean it's yeah, it's it's a gigantic change of. I mean, we've talked about this a bunch and said probably this exact sense, but a gigantic change of tone and just like um Yeah, I mean, throws everything that you know about this character so far like for a loop, and you know, makes makes those little moments of like weirdness stand out a bit more for sure, but it's it's just like strange because it also like you know, Mark seems like a nice guy, his mom seems like I mean, she's like incredibly understanding of like Omni Man being like who he is, where you know right.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

The only time she gets stressed out, that's another funny line where he's he's in another dimension. Yeah, that's right. I never really worry about him except when he's in another dimension. Yeah, then I hate it.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Yeah, crazy. But I think, yeah, I mean that was like I think we s we like started getting this kind of tone shift when uh you know we started dealing with this stuff with the teacher, right? And we it's you know, it's crazy because we go, this guy has like his own layer like in his house. He's also expecting them to come, which is kind of an interesting thing. Like he's ready to be caught and then blow them up, blow up like more kids and whatever else at the same time. And uh, I mean that's like the beginning of it, right? And you're like feeling like things are pulling back, you're like, okay, they've you know they haven't really exactly like saved the day, but Mark flew this guy to Antarctica, like it's a whole thing, yeah. And then we're down in the dumps, depressing, like immediately after that, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

I was gonna say one thing I was thinking about, like now looking back at it, is um when OmniVan was on the phone with Mark talking about like, oh, like Alan is pulling up to Earth, he was saying he was busy with the Guardians. So I'm wondering, I'm like, are they already dead or like is he on the way to Mercam? Wow, yeah. But yeah, you it was all covered up perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Oh, and the other thing is the the teen team, um, Eve showing up to their hideout and being like, oh my god, like and we never even see what happens. We never see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

We should talk about that next. So it one of the uh basically Mark is out uh fighting some crime and he's like boxers, right? Or his pajamas. I don't remember how we ended up like that. But basically he's out in the middle of the night and he ends up meeting a whole other like government-sponsored team that's like the uh what are they called, the guardians of the globe. But the guardians of the globe, the guardians of the globe are like the adult justice league ones. This is one that's like under the teen team. It's like the teen team, the teen titans. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What are the uh who let's talk about them?

SPEAKER_03 41:30

I I love the monster. Yeah, I mean I like the um I mean it was kind of fun to see the dynamic of uh what's his name? Rex and Adam and Eve, you know, with um Mark everyone thinking Mark has a crush on her. That was that was kind of funny to see. It was very uh just like classic, like teenage superhero-like. Yep. And then Robot, I think. Literally Robot. I think his name is just Robot. Very cool character.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Let's let's list who we got just so we remember. So there Adam Eve is a girl who goes to high school with Mark, and she she has crazy powers. Um, see her powers? Yeah, I mean, she can fly, we get different stuff, but but I can also just say, you know, whatever, we can spoil some stuff, right? Like she does like mala, she basically is she's kind of like a mini god. Like she can really do like physics, like she can unmake it. Oh, kind of like a wanda type. So she can like she can create stuff out of thin air, she could like turn something into something else. She can give me that power.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Where was that with the bomb?

SPEAKER_00 42:26

That's like that also reminds me of some other Watchmen stuff where it's like you could have you could have changed the output of this, but you didn't.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

For real. Wow. Um then uh Rex Bload, he's a guy, he can basically he's like Gambit. I think it's like the idea of like him throwing the cards, he can like charge up something with like a bunch of energy and then throw it, and then it'll like detonate. Oh, so he can basically like everything he touches is a grenade. He can just like be throwing whatever. Gotcha. Um Robot is obviously supposed to like we're gonna learn a lot more about him, uh which I'm not gonna spoil for you guys.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I also feel like I just uh okay. Maybe if we're gonna learn more about him, then maybe I feel like the assumption that I was gonna make of what Eve found. Yeah, I was just because again, he was supposed to be joining the guardians, right? And then my bad.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Oh right, no, yeah. He was supposed to be getting moved up to be the same.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

So I'm wondering if like Omni Man just took it upon himself before. Right, yeah, before even that.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

But what do he he feels he feels like an Iron Man type, like I mean, uh that's what we're supposed to assume, right? Like he's he's like he kind of looks like Iron Man a little bit, he's just like a robot. Yeah, yeah. They call him robot. We don't really get more info than that. And then there's this other person, Duplicate, who we don't really see her do that much of her powers. I don't think she talks about that. She has a cool name though. Yeah, but that but she she can make multiples of herself, right? Basically, she can make and then the other thing that's cool is like if and if one dies, there's the other one. So she's like she's just she just can like make like more copies, copies, copies, copies, copies. Are they uh are they a big part like going forward? Yeah, all these all these characters have like their arcs go crazy. Oh they don't, yeah. So we that's another thing about this running for 15 years with like an issue. Every month, right? Like the character development that they end up like it all feels very basic now, but you end up like the journeys that some of these people go on, and like another thing that's really fun about Invincible that is I'll spoil in a general sense that I thought was so uh fun about reading it the first time around is it's like one of the jokes about superhero stuff, obviously, is like uh like a big betrayal or uh oh, but he was alive all along or whatever, right? Like they play with that a ton where there'll be tons of characters will be like they're on the same team, they're teaming up. Now they hate each other, now they're in conflict. Oh, now they have to unite because somebody else pulled up that was crazier. And then now they're gonna, you know, so so many of these people are it's gonna be yeah, very interesting. There's gonna be some crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Wild. I wish they would have kind of developed more of the what are they called? The uh the golden globe regarding my bad. Why am I saying golden globes? It's half an insane. But um, I wish I know that probably for their own reasons, like the like trying to make people read the comics, like as you were saying. I get why it probably was rushed, but I I it would be kind of cool to know more about what made them um have yeah, like get that stature. Yeah, so it would probably make their deaths more um like impactful for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

I think that's definitely that's probably I mean we haven't talked about that many criticisms in this conversation yet, but that uh that's really the big I feel like that's the the only biggest one is like if we had seen them pop up more throughout this Omni Man pulling up on them like that would have been.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

And just get more of their like like we obviously hear that they're like a powerful group, but like being able to see some more of their powers and be like, okay, like you know, I guess we get a little bit of like the flash, a little bit like his character, whatever else, because he's obviously doing speedy stuff and whatever else, and they have this kind of like funny, cute moment where he's like you know, back with his girlfriend or whatever else, and she's like trying to have a day with him, and he's like running off in the middle. Actually, that's another thing that I also love about seeing how strong Omni Man is, where like he and Mark will be like flying to um you know something that they're gonna do, and he'll like go like he'll I think he like saves somebody from like a chemical fire, like then came in the map, yeah. Like literally within like two seconds, and he's like, Oh, sorry, I just had to go like do whatever else.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Since we see Omni Man can go, Omni Man just seems powerful as hell. Like we we don't even have that much of an idea of it yet, but yeah, he's he's flying around the whole globe in like so fast, like he's literally going, accomplishing a whole he's kind of like the flash. He's just like he kind of like whatever situation he's up against, he kind of just has it. Yeah, it seems like that's as as far as we we see. I mean, and that except for the one part where he went into another dimension, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

And um enslaved for like what eight months or something? Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

But one thing like one thing I'll say, uh we you know, we maybe shouldn't believe everything that he's saying. Oh very true.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

I was thinking about that with Wilchram actually when he was talking about it being like utopia.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

I'm like, are you reconsidering that maybe? I'm reconsidering it because I'm like, is it actually perfect?

SPEAKER_00 47:01

I'd have thought about that, but that's a very, very good point. Yeah, it's a very very good point.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Is he like just one really crazy guy or like straying from the rest of the planet?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Maybe, bro.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Is the whole planet just like done?

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Like that's a very interesting point. Yeah. I did not think about that at all. And that's that's a perfect example of why we do this.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

I guess that's a yeah, that's a good um let's just uh is there anything like what questions you guys like what are you guys curious about? Like from reading this, like what like what do you what do you want to know what happens? What do you hope happens? Like looking forward, like what are you excited about? What are you curious about?

SPEAKER_05 47:34

I want to know what what more are um how do I say this? Are there any other powers that Omni Man has that haven't been that's a good question, I assure you. That's a great question. Because we you already it's already established that he's powerful, but like what's like a cat or like uh the rabbit out the hat type of thing? Like what's a surprise?

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

I bet you there I bet you there are some for sure. One question I do have is what does Debbie know? Right, yeah. Does she know the full story? Does she know half of it? Does she know nothing at all? Like, why is she so down and understanding?

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, why did he pick her? I mean, maybe he picked her because she's so down and understanding, but like you know, he again, like this guy's this guy, as we're learning and probably will learn in the future, he's not doing this like on a whim. Like he's gonna be picking very specific people, doing very specific things. Um and that is a great point. Yeah, I mean I had definitely have both of your guys' questions, and I think just like, yeah, I want to see. I mean, I'm just interested at the level of depravity that Omni Man will go to. Because I mean, this this last again, this last like issue was pretty damn intense, especially those last couple pages. Because I mean, yeah, again, I was reading this without any knowledge of what goes on ahead, and so I was like, again, I was trying to like piece it together, whatever else. And I remember getting there just being like, oh shit. Like, I was like, damn, now now we're like this is real. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

I think uh go like relating this to the show, right? It's it's really interesting. I think I'm gonna do a show rewatch at some point too soon, too. Because we have uh season three is actually coming out real soon. Is it season three or season four? I think four or it might be four. That's crazy. Uh let's Google that real quick because that's wild. But yeah, that because you know, animated shows take take a long time to make. Yeah, season four. Season four about to come out. Um, so one of the things like obviously it's crazy to see how one-to-one the show, like the show adapts the comic so directly. It's amazing. But they really it's kind of because it's the same author is the one that's in charge of the show. You can see he really is like he's able to do it a little, like there's things that he changes in some of the pacing and everything. He changes example, like the way he does episode one is we're with Guardians of Globe the whole time. Like I think it low-key opens with like Guardians of the Globe doing stuff, and they end episode one with the dad murking them. Wow. So that's like the hook of the show. And one thing that's crazy with the way they start it up is um some people miss the beginning of Invincible. People be like, Did you see Invincible? How crazy was it? And they're like, I don't know. Because they do for whatever, I think maybe part of it is like a reference to Marvel, maybe and tropes, but they run credits like halfway through the episode. Oh, yeah. And then there's a whole nother a whole nother half of the episode. That's right. And so a lot of people will like watch it and they don't realize they don't finish the episode. They watch the first one.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

They miss the after credits scene, which is like half the show, half of the show.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

But that's what they do. It's so you can feel the tone switch up even harder in that first one because the beginning is very like jolly. Superheroes, like it feels very whatever. And then they roll credits and then it picks back up immediately with him like slaughtering them. Wow, that's uh unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

And then it's crazy because the pace, like so many of the scenes that we see with the dad and Mark, it's the same, but we know the dad's on some other thing. So there's a whole that whole first that whole I'm not gonna say how long it goes, but that a whole chunk of that first season. We are the only ones that know the dad has some crazy stuff going on, and we have to watch Mark and everybody else like interact with having no idea. So it is an interesting, it's interesting to see, like, it's still cool, obviously, in the comic, but some of the stuff we've talked about, wishing they did different, like they already do do that. Yeah, different.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

That's very I mean, that's also just like a very cool aspect of like being able to kind of like redo some stuff that you because again, this guy's doing this stuff. I mean, I'm sure that they, you know, it came out in what 2021, so I'm sure that they made the deal probably in like 2017 or something like that, or maybe you know, but it's like, yeah, like 12 years minimum later from when you maybe originally wrote these things, you get to go back and be like, I have like 12 to 15 years more like amount of experience and knowledge of how this story is gonna go. And so I can like re revamp or just like make these little small adjustments that make the whole cohesive thing a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Yeah, that makes me think of what you were saying earlier with like the sales. Like, I wonder if that like the show was like his iteration of what it would have done, just like minus the sales, not worrying about that resident.

SPEAKER_05 51:53

Really executing his initial creative vision, yeah. Like now that he actually pacing and just going for it.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

So another thing that's kind of interesting, I'll try to I'll try to find some art to show you guys too, um, just to see your guys' reactions to what Ryan art why Ryan Otley's art ends up looking like. Um what like why don't we try to have a little bit of conversation looking through just like what we thought of the art in in this so far, like what we thought, you know, just any literally any thoughts. Like did we like the art? What was it like?

SPEAKER_03 52:22

You know, my my favorite art panel so far is um him saying ouch when he's in space. I think I think it was literally one of the first panels. I think it was seven. And you see him just kind of like there's another one where he's just like kind of pondering, looking at the stars, and the amount of white dots that was placed on that panel is ridiculous. Beautiful though.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Yeah, he's got a I think there is like yeah, a big one. I think that I maybe even took like a yeah, there's a it's like the one two-pager that's in these first couple of issues are him, is like he he has like the conversation with Alan, and then Alan dips, and then he's standing on the moon and he just like looks back at Earth, and it's like the only like two-page thing where he's just like, Whoa, that's crazy, right? And it's him just looking back, seeing Earth taking you down. The blue the blue dot or whatever they call it in that one photo.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

So this is an interesting little contrast I just found is like this is later on Ryan Otley doing um redoing the cover for Invincible One. So just as just like one way you guys can see of the one-to-one art switch up. Like pass the iPad around, like just look at like just the whole the whole not I'm not trying to put down the original artist, he was just doing it, but like just the uh it just levels up like crazy. Like the amount of detail, the sort of style they're in, like the whole thing. Um the art ends up being something that's like a whole draw to the comic in and of itself is just how crazy good the art is. Yeah, all like stronger. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Yeah, I was looking at like Adam and Eve and Rex, they both look way more detailed and yeah, stronger.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Right, yeah, yeah. With with a lot of these characters, yeah, yeah, we don't get a lot of like their facial like I feel like I never really saw like Rex's yeah, facial expressions definitely not um multicate, obviously, in this like uh or duplicate, whatever her name is, uh in this uh in this first couple of things here. But yeah, that's super interesting. It's definitely more detailed than actually going back to um you're in my previous episode way, way back of of Scott McLeod's understanding comics. I think that this is much more on like it's going, it's sliding down like the realistic slight side of the of the triangle, I guess, that exists there.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

There's like the Ryan Otley one?

SPEAKER_00 54:22

You're saying the Ryan Otley art is more realistic and the it's kind of like the stuff that we're starting with right now, is definitely again like throwback to like older comics, like kind of like a little bit like cartoony. And I I think that that's also it's actually kind of an interesting thing here where like these early issues where they are like more, I guess like um fun is not like the right word, but like lighthearted. I feel like the art in a weird way almost like works well for that because it's uh it feels like a more lighthearted art style. And so to go from that, and we'll see obviously if all of us keep reading, like to go from that lighthearted art style to the more intense one when the story gets more intense, it's kind of an interesting, maybe even like accidental thing that happens. Um it works narratively, yeah. Which is yeah, kind of kind of random, but cool.

SPEAKER_05 55:09

I really like the what's the I don't I forgot his name, it's the Batman guy. Darkwing? Darkwing, darkwing. I really like um despite how short it was in the in the actual comic, I really like the artwork for him.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

It was very dope. It was very like uh Batman the anime series almost.

SPEAKER_05 55:26

Yeah, yeah. Even like the the sky and everything.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Yeah, I think it was red. The sky was like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:32

Reminded me of the intro, like the for that like you said, the anime series. Yeah. I don't know. I I really like that. It looked goofy at first though, I will say without the the uh the ears.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Yeah, yeah. No ears and no like um logo across his chest and whatever else.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

What do you call his plane? Was it like the wing jet? Yeah, you call it the wing. Yeah, I got like a genuine chapel.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Yeah, the the I mean going forward, it's just it stays. I've said this a couple times now, but it just stays references and it does it in such a funny way, and like all of the villains they'll be fighting like week to week or things popping up in the background, like it's just constantly references, and not just superhero stuff, like pop culture stuff in general, but you'll be that's part of the fun of it is uh us just noticing all that stuff. That's cool. And it goes forward, like they introduced a ridiculously big cast of characters, and almost all of them are uh direct references to a thing, like a play on a thing. Um, what else was I gonna say? Oh, another thing that's interesting about Invincible is they image uh once it starts to pick up popularity, especially, image uses invincible, like image will do overlap with other characters from image titles will overlap in. So like spawn will be an invincible, like all sorts of stuff. There's even a thing uh where they do a thing with Marvel and there's a there's an official uh Invincible Spider-Man crossover, which is I saw some of that.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

That was really cool actually. That was like recent too, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah, so there's stuff wouldn't both Omni Man and Invincible put Spider-Man kind of in a blender.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Um I mean I don't want to spoil, I don't want to spoil it, but yeah, I mean that's part of the thing with Invincible, right? Is like spoil it, you're gonna put him in a blender because not Spider-Man specifically, but like part of the I I mean Invincible's name is Invincible, right? Like we we can infer something about uh what that means about him. And I think a lot of the of the comic being so violent is uh part of it part of part of Mark's whole character trait is like his ability to survive anything, right? You know, so it's like they really put him through everything. He's cooked. Yeah, I feel like that's like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Those were like the scenes that I saw like on online or whatever else of him.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

I've been dancing around talking about those scenes, but yeah, because we've all seen clips.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

It's hard to escape the clips online. Some of them are just crazy.

SPEAKER_05 57:46

The thumbnail, he's all beaten up, yeah. Yeah, Zoe. Yeah, I wonder who does that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

I wonder. Must have been Spider-Man. Yeah, Spider-Man produced it. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Yeah. Yeah. But it is uh it's interesting. Um, in the beginning of uh Image, they had this whole thing, I think they called it like the Young Bloods or something, I want to say even, but they had a whole like superhero universe they were trying to get going that I don't think actually really went anywhere. People didn't really mess with it, but those characters will be in invincible and random stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:18

I don't know if I should ask this, but you mentioned Spawn. Does he does he make any do they reference him at all in the show? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

I'm not sure. I actually don't remember. Because that would be pretty cool. He may he might pop up in the background uh or something, but I'm pretty sure there's invincible issues where Spawn's just in it.

SPEAKER_05 58:37

I would love to read that. Yeah, we gotta get out of that. In the show, I think at least I don't know if I should be saying this now. Sure, whatever. There there was like a Batman silhouette that I saw, like a like a little cameo.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

Oh, I think I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 58:50

Yeah, I I didn't know the context behind it. I don't know if I should mention, but yeah, there was something interesting. You haven't seen that part?

SPEAKER_01 58:57

No, I I've I've I'm I'm across the show, I've seen all of it. So we haven't spoiled anything from the I might just not know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

It could have just been Dark Wing.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

It could have. It could have been, but there was something that I seen of Batman, but it didn't necessarily show Batman. It was like a heavy implication interesting.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

I do, I do know what you're talking about. Okay, so I'm not sure that. Yeah, no, I do. I've seen that. Thank God.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Um do we have any other any other thoughts in general on Invincible? Like, should we any other things you like ideas you guys have for us to chat about?

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Or I was gonna say one thing I think that I actually liked a lot about this was the the way that they the way that they show how strong a lot of these characters are. Like I think that the way that we understand how strong um Invincible and Omni Man are, like one of my favorite moments in this is them playing catch where they're facing opposite each other. Yeah. And so they're obvious like as far as I can tell, they're literally like chucking this ball like around the entire circumference of the earth, right? And that's just like their game of catch. And like that, right, that was like one of my favorite like things that they did to just illustrate like a lot. I feel like a lot of these illustrations of like how strong they truly are, like, you get some of it from like a little bit of the action that you see and whatever else, right? But there's so many like background things that show how strong all these all these people are, and I think that that's a super cool way to show their kind of power.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

To add on to that, even uh when he was leaving to go to the college with William, he was like, Wait, hold on, I forgot my wallet, goes back inside, catches the ball around the planet. It's like oh yeah, no, I just forgot my wallet, my bad. My bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Um, I was gonna say I I want to propose a bet to people who haven't read past issue seven. I want to see like what you guys' guesses are on who Adam and Eve saw right before like showing down Crystal.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Yeah, yeah. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

I don't know if that's spoilers, but no, whatever. Spoil whatever. Set it up. Yeah, set it up. What uh what what happened which part are we talking about specifically?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

When she pulls back up to the headquarters, yeah, goes back to the headquarters by herself and she sees something from she like sinks into the corner, like it's like very like distressing, and we just don't get anything else.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

I hope it's not robot, um, because I really like him, but I'm gonna guess Rex. Yeah, that's yeah, that's my that's my safe bet.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:11

Wait, can I ask when when do we find out about that? I don't know, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

I haven't I'm just I'm rereading this. I've got to read in funny. It's um it's been a minute. I'm I'm just we gotta keep reading. Yeah, we gotta even though I I mean obviously I love Invincible, but I'm not like as we say at the beginning of the episode. I'm not uh I I I fuck with all of this, but I am not an expert on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

Yeah, I've not read a lot of comics, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

We're looking to get involved.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

W and Trump. W and Trump. Yeah, W Trump. Crazy, bro. I'll give everyone here a dollar if it's not Rex.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Yeah, we got we got Rex, we got robot. Yeah. Oh, here's another random.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Oh yeah, yeah. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

Yeah, the the like Terminator guy that like um art school at the school or whatever else, right? I do you think do we think that that's like the suit that the the costume guy or this the um costume guy is like yo, there's this suit that's for this other guy and it's gone. Who took this? I mean, they they indicate that it's probably gonna be that guy who took it, but I'm wondering if that robot thing is that guy is like either that guy, which I at least seeming from what it looks like is probably not, or um, is that like something that came and took the suit, or is it a secret third thing where we just don't even know what this is and whatever else, which is pretty wild.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Do we remember if there were I think it was the second issue, there was like two guys that were uh stealing a ton of tech to build something? I'm like, uh was that them or did they get busted?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

I think that's separate, but that those are those are recurring characters, those guys are called the Mauler twins. The Mauler twins. And they're like these blue, like huge blue guys. Yeah. Um, they're they're like two villains that um they're taking they're taking GPUs or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah, yeah. They're they're making it. We had a conversation off off pot earlier about expensive GPUs. That's what I mean. Yeah, it makes sense, bro. They make a bank up at the end. I'm gonna have to join them up for real.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

They're uh their thing, um, because it's not that big a deal to like set up their character spoil, but their thing is they are they're obviously like super strong, whatever, like these huge muscle blue guys. Yeah, but they their main thing is they're they're tech geniuses who uh figure out how to clone themselves, but both of them think they're the original one. So their bit is they're like always arguing with each other, like you're the clone, no, you're the clone. And then anytime one of them messes up, they're like, Ha, see, like only the stupid clone was straight on that. Like that's pretty funny, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

I I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

So it is, it's just it's so uh it's so it's fun for me to hear you guys like enjoying that like those characters and stuff already because they get you get to know them so much more, and I feel like they do such a good job of making almost every single character like genuinely funny and uh and cool. It's like a good balance of both of those things, I feel like.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:51

I wonder if they'll go through any like um character design changes, like drastic character design changes throughout like as they get older.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

Well, doesn't Mark get one like later on?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:03

Yeah, time skip. Anybody who watches anime knows a time skip.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Oh man, I don't don't I can't comment on that. There may or may not be a time skip at some point in the series. Oh but a minor what for I mean that's another thing with all this, right? Two-week time skip. It's a two, it's a two, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna speak on that two weeks. Yeah, the two years question mark. But one of the things that's crazy with this is like it we're obviously starting so small and uh intentionally so, right? And it we can already feel how the book like we talked about earlier, like each chapter is introducing us like a little bit of a bigger concept, and we're seeing it like open up, right? Yeah, it's like this that just keeps happening for 15 years of story. Like the book, like it it just gets so much bigger. The scale gets so much bigger, and they keep introducing more and more things, and they do it really in a way where it's very digestible, and you're able to follow everything that's going on. But like it ends up, it ends up on some Star Wars, other planets, other everything, uh intergalactic. Yeah, yeah, it just keeps zooming out, and like so many of these little seeds they're planting, like these these green guys that popped out of the portal. Yeah, those are re-occurring. Almost almost everything that you guys have encountered in the story so far ends up being reoccurring stuff. The guardians. Like it's not just well the guardians. Yeah, the guardians really uh took the L hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

Yeah, and that's unfortunate. I took it for everybody else. Yeah, no, seriously. That's what they're supposed to do, right? That's like the guardian. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

Yeah. Um, do we have any other thoughts? I don't have anything else. I feel like we've kind of Yeah, this was this was cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

I mean, I think it's interesting. I think it's gonna be super cool to get into the rest of it. Maybe we'll do some maybe we'll do some more episodes. Love to come back to talk about it. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

We gotta do it. Well, yeah, thanks guys for for pulling up and best podcast on the planet. Yes, sir. We're just getting started. We're just getting started. Um, yeah, well, thank you listeners for uh for jumping in, reading along. Um, yeah, follow us all on Instagram. Ours is uh let's all let's all drop to Instagram. Mars' kickback comic pod uh on Instagram, Max?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

Uh it's max dot a underscore mil. You already know. Max Mel, look it up, you got it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:10

I go by Jaden C Marks, uh J A Y D E N C M A R K S or Light Skin Soldier. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Yes, sir. Hell yeah, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

And uh you guys probably already know me, meaning me and Tony Sandle. So yeah. Yeah. You already know. But we'll have everything tagged. We'll have everything tagged in the posts and the show notes and everything. So um come find us. Yeah, thanks for pulling up. We'll uh we haven't decided what we're reading next week, but we will uh we'll post about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

So look out for it. Thanks everybody. Peace. Peace. Peace. Have a good day.