"Spawn" by Todd McFarlane Issues 30-33 (Ep.19)

Episode 19 is here! Ben and Antonio dive into Spawn by Todd McFarlane, breaking down issues 30–33. This week we explore the supernatural adventures of Spawn as he clashes with the KKK, angels from heaven, and clown demons strait out of hell. Learn more about this 90's comics legend with us! 

Be part of the discussion on Instagram: @KickbackComics_Pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hey there everybody, how's it going? Welcome back to another episode of Kickback Comics. My name is Antonio. My name is Ben, and y'all are listening to a comic book podcast. By two guys who have not read a lot of comics but are looking to get involved, read some cool stories, rise from hell, beat up the KKK, like that one scene in Red Dead Redemption 2, where it doesn't matter what you do and they die anyway. So that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Yep, that's what we're doing. We're doing a book club, we're reading comics. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Yeah. Uh this is a a cool episode because not only do we have a guest, um, Isaiah, but also it's our first ever Zoom recording. Yeah, I think. So we we got through uh, you know, troubleshooting, figuring out how to get all that. And there was a lot of trouble to be shot. Yeah, but it was you know, but we got there. We got there, and uh yeah, so you know, exciting, exciting new developments continuing uh to expand our horizons here as a podcast. Yeah. Um and yeah, we had a really great conversation. Indeed. Uh uh also I am getting over a cold, so um apologies for me coughing and whatever in the background, but hopefully I'll take most of that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

And uh yeah, uh, thank you guys for joining us. Uh check us out on Instagram, kickback comics pod. Um rate and review us on all your all your platforms.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

All the good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

And uh at this point, I think we'll throw it over to that Zoom conversation. Yep, sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

See you there. Here we are. Guest episode. Yeah, guest episode is crazy. We got the boy Isaiah. Isaiah, thank you for joining us, my boy. Hello, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Really excited to be on the podcast. Um Antonio and I told me about it. I was like, fuck yeah, I love comics. I mean, I love superheroes and and that kind of shit in general, so super happy to be on. Hell yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

We're happy to have you. Yeah, it's been this has been like, I feel like a long time coming, but we made it happen. We made it happen. We made it happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And yes, thanks for all the um the schedule shifts that we had.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Appreciate the patience. We're here and we're live. Exactly. We're making it happen. We'll we'll do it live if anybody's seen that one Bill O'Reilly clips. But anyway, um yeah, bro. So we're gonna be reading Spawn today. Uh or talking about Spawn today. We already read it. I hopefully you guys did too. But um, we're talking about spawn today, and I guess um we'll probably go just through the beginning of the the stuff that we normally talk through, just the number, the obviously writers, uh artists, everything like that. We'll go through kind of what the general thing is, and then I guess Isaiah, you can maybe talk a little bit about just the the backstory of Spawn in general. Um I I went through actually, I ended up reading we're reading issues 30 through 33 today, right? And I ended up like randomly going back and reading issue number one just because they were all like 25 pages, so I was like, all right, let me just see what the deal is, right? But we'll so we'll let you do like the the the basics there and then we'll we'll come back around going the issue by issue. But anyway, uh so spawn, uh Ben and I'll jump to the the dossier here and walk through a couple of things for just the general stuff here. So Spawn published by Image Comics, right? Which is which is crazy. We've been reading uh a couple of different things from Image uh over the time that we started doing this. Um and this is, I guess, interesting. So it's Image and Todd McFarlane Productions in particular. And this was this was pretty early on. I mean, this is the first one for Image, right? This is this is number one.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Well, Todd Todd McFarlane, uh, we've mentioned it like a little bit in previous episodes, but his split off from Marvel, like he was he was like this up and coming artist, uh and he was doing Spider-Man at Marvel, like worked his way up to doing Spider-Man and also Venom, I think, uh, but basically became like super, super popular. And then he sort of led uh like revolt of sorts with like a bunch of the other big Marvel artists, and they like jumped out to make image. And the whole concept with image is that it's a place where you know artists can actually own the intellectual rights to their characters and the stories and stuff that they're creating. Um, and Spawn, I think, was like he'd Spawn was one of his characters that he had been working on for a while or something. And um he was probably holding on to that, didn't let Marvel know he was like, I got some shit.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Um, but that's but it's cool. I mean, that's like the whole the whole concept of um, you know, Spawn is like indicative of the whole idea for image, right? Just like artist, artist owned, artist-led projects, independent. Um yeah, crazy, man. Just really cool. It was a big deal at the time, and I think continues to be a big deal now. And you know, we've talked about this before on other episodes, but like just across the board in general, like artists owning their own work is important across like not just comics, you know, like that's something we should be uh supporting.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So yeah, definitely. You could see that with um, you know, how the illustrations are in general with Spawn, how it's more about the imagery first versus the story. I think I touched on that briefly when we chatted on the side about this, Antonio. Um, is that especially the first, I think like hundred issues or so, it's more about the artistic sort of the way that the artist convey, you know, everything from that standpoint. But as it goes on, um, you know, they start making Spawn a more complex character and adding more nuances there. But definitely can see that in the early issues. That's super cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I mean, that's I mean that makes a lot of sense, right? Going uh from the direction that we did. So that's super fire. I mean, I think so. Let's see, I'll go through kind of what the general thing, I guess, of Spawn is we'll talk through the first uh when it first got released, released, and um how that's going. So um, you know, Spawn obviously, as we talked about, is the flagship title of image, one of the longest running creator-owned superhero comic book series uh in history. Oh, funny. I even I didn't even know this, but this is the the genus the Guinness Genus Guinness World Record achieved um with issue number 301 in 2019. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, um but so it follows Al Simmons, a black government assassin who's murdered and makes a deal with the demon called what is this? Uh do you know off the top of your head, Isaiah? It's it's Malabolzia or something like that. Malibolia, yeah. I was looking at it, I don't remember how it was pronounced, but uh yeah. But so he makes a d uh a deal with the demons and returns to Earth as Hell Spawn, so that's where Spawn comes from. He comes back disfigured, stripped of his memories, armed with a living symbiotic suit, uh, which is pretty interesting, uh, especially since we just read Venom.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, we just writing, he was drawing, not writing, he was drawing Venom at the time, so I'm sure that's part he was on that wave.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

For sure. Um, but so he comes back only to find out that his wife is uh remarried to his best friend. That's pretty crazy. You're not supposed to come brutal and see that one. Yeah, brutal. Um but so he's caught between heaven and hell, with neither side uh seeming trustworthy, which we actually get to see a little bit in these issues in particular, which is pretty sick. Um, but he uh carves out his existence as a vigilante, haunting New York City's back alleys, protecting the homeless and the forgotten, while both cosmic forces try to use him as a weapon. So heaven and hell are really putting him between the rock and a hard place. But crazy. Uh wildback story. Yeah, it's funny that we just talked about Venom.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

It's cool that it also is like, you know, predates like a lot of these superheroes, obviously predates us, like uh Superman, Batman, all this stuff is like, you know, way back in the day. This is this is more modern, but still still old school, you know, from our perspective. 1992 first issue. Um yeah, and sold crazy, uh, crazy amount of copies. Issue number one sold 1.7 million copies. Uh it's still the all-time record for creator owned comic books. Wow. Um, which uh I watched a video last night on Spawn that maybe I'll link in the show notes, uh just like some to get some context and stuff. Um, and one of the things that it was talking about is the that period of time in the 90s was like there is a huge uh like speculator bubble for buying comics. Like a lot of people that weren't just comics fans were buying hella copies because they were planning on reselling them.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Oh, so it's like it's like Pokemon cards had begun, you know, whatever else now.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

And I think that bubble kind of burst in the early 2000s or something. Like I don't think it but but anyways, that's part of this uh this excess of image and everything was it kind of uh coincided with well, and it we've talked about this a little bit, Antonio, as well, with uh like the alternative covers and everything, right? Right, which now is now is something that's that we appreciate and it's cool to be able to see all these different versions and whatever, and for collectors to be able to collect you know alternates and whatever. But at the time, that was definitely uh like a business decision where they were going, okay, we'll make like rarer printings, like rare versions that are gonna, you know, increase people's um desire to buy them and resell them or or whatnot. So um but yeah, 1.7 million copies of a a single issue of a comic book is is wild.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, absolutely crazy. Uh published in 12 languages across 37 countries, yeah, several hundred million copies sold worldwide. One of the ones that's actually kind of crazy here, which I was just double checking, um, is that they're doing a and maybe that's why we're reading it right now, we're cosmetically reading this, because they're doing a a reboot film, supposedly. That has what I heard, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

That's crazy. Is it Jamie Foxx who's supposed to be?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, Jamie Foxx and supposedly Jeremy Renner, which is interesting. I don't know how Jeremy Renner fits into it, but Jamie Fox, yeah. That'd be cool. I feel like it's been stuck in um what is it production hell or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Oh, I've been hearing about it. Yeah, I've been hearing about it for a minute. Yeah, no pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, for real. That's how funny. But that's that's wild. Obviously, there's I'm gonna have to go back and watch. There was the 1997 live action uh starring Michael Jay uh Jay White, uh grossing over a hundred million worldwide, which is pretty crazy. There was an animated series voiced by Keith David, who has a great voice as well. That's pretty wild. Oh, and they had a this is like 2021 universe expansion, right? So they've got three new ongoing series that got launched. There's King Spawn, Gunslinger Spawn, and The Scorched, which is pretty wild. So this stuff, again, this is super interesting. Again, this is um creator-owned, right, comic that's been going for so long and is now getting expansions. They're doing a whole bunch of extra stuff. They've had movies, they're getting more movies. It's crazy that it's coming back around, but you know, shows the power of owning your own shit too, right? Because it's hopefully the money's going to the right places. And actually, we'll talk about it later, but there is, I think, in this first issue that we're reading, issue number 30, the I don't know if you guys read the stuff in the back where he like answers questions from people. I read that I thought that was actually super interesting to get an idea of just like the way that he thinks about that. Anyway, we'll we'll talk about that when we get there. But those are the the basic things there. We'll go through the kind of the creative team here. So um Todd McFarlane is the writer, artist, uh creator. Um he that's funny, so yeah, he created Spawn from a character he'd first sketched in high school. Um, but he's done stuff on Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man number one. That's crazy. Yeah. Um obviously Spawn, Bobman, Batman Spawn Crossover, which we'll have to check at a simple point. I didn't even know they did that. Um but uh yeah, obviously writer, artist, creator, um pencilers. We have Greg Capolo.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Which he brings in to do art um like with him, right? I think like Todd only does the the first bunch of issues, right? Before bringing more help. But still, it's another one of the it's cool, it's rare that there's somebody who's writing the story, doing the art, doing the like the fact that it's sort of like really his vision.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Right, it really started that way. Yeah, he got to kind of command that moving forward. Um uh so our color artist is Steve Olif, um, who's done a bunch of different stuff with Spawn. Uh letterer is Tom Orzychowski. Oh, I thought I was gonna have a harder time, but that actually was not that bored. Orzachowski um doing the lettering. So um, and then there's a couple interesting, so we got also a couple of guest writers, really an interesting one, I think, in particular for um those of us who read uh Watchmen or whatever else. Alan Moore did issue number eight of Spawn, which I have not read yet, but that would be a super interesting one to see and compare how his writing style was at that time versus when he wrote Watchmen. Um but super crazy. So great team. I think that this was artistically just super interesting. I mean we Ben and I actually talked about this. I don't know if we talked about this off the pot off the pod or on the pod sometime, but just the um the difference in the kind of like I don't know if it's the horrors or just like the the yeah, maybe the horrors, the creepiness almost of like the well the art in this, right? It's like his cape is also like such a crazy I love the way that they do the art with the cape, which is wild. But anyway, crazy uh creative team that put today put together an awesome awesome comic that we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Should we um should we just take a minute and uh and talk about Isaiah for a second? Yes, let's do it. Introduce introduce yourself a little more and um just but also just tell us about like yeah, you were the one who uh you know um it was like your idea that we were gonna read Spawn. So like what was uh like when did you get into Spawn? Like what's your content? You said you were in the superheroes, like you mentioned that a minute ago, but like, yeah, just talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

I mean, you know, honestly, my first introduction to Spawn was from uh that movie that was in the 90s with uh Michael J. White. Um I just loved how creepy it was, how um different it was from typical superhero movies. And I'm always drawn to like that sort of horror element. Um, one of my favorite villains um is still um, I believe it's Violator, um, who's the big clown guy. I don't know if you've seen him uh in the movie or if you guys have watched the movie, but um what's his name? Who is it played by? Um oh man, he's in John Wick, uh, the first one. He's like he's the one who has the car. He's in a lot of movies back in the day. Um I think he's but anyways, but he plays a great role. He's funny. Um he's got this super iconic look with this blue or or white paint on his face, these creepy red eyes, and and I just loved how um how uh quirky it kind of was at this at the same time. The animation and the CGI and everything is really bad, part for the course. But uh I think you guys, yeah, exactly. I think you guys should check it out if you haven't seen it. Uh gives you a good introduction to his backstory. As far as like comics go, I've always been you know a big fan of um Marvel comics. In particular, my grandpa was a huge comic book collector. Uh he had everything like T-Man, uh Conan, Marvel, DC, and he actually had uh some of the more original issues. Like I think he had like Superman 1, Batman 1, all those crazy like odd tier issues, but they got burned in a fire when he was a teenager. He still had a big collection and he passed some of that down to me, um, which I'm still trying to find. I don't know where it went because I've been looking.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Um, anyways, uh that's so cool though, to get comics like from you know, through your family. Like have that be something you can talk about with your grandpa and stuff. Like, that's so dope.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah, so we me and him um he passed away, but me and him were really close, uh connecting in that way when it comes to superhero movies and and comic books. So that's why it's so you know near and dear to me. As far as Spawn go goes, I haven't read um his their those comics in such a long time, probably when I was like a kid. Um, and I just knew that you guys wanted to explore you know different types of comics outside of you know what's typical. And I thought Spawn is the perfect way to do that. I know you guys did Invincible, which is another, you know, kind of out there comic book um story. Modern it's also exactly and so it kind of plays into that. So I thought you guys would find it interesting. Um, and these are some of the issues that I just kept seeing time and time again, just looking through like Reddit and and online. Like, this is what you could read if you wanted to, to kind of get uh a little bit of an intro to spawn.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

For sure, for sure, yeah. No, I mean this these were super fun issues. I mean, I think definitely the uh that's funny. I was actually talking to my mom earlier today. It's Mother's Day today, so shout out to all the moms. But I was talking to my mom earlier, and uh I was telling her about the issue number 30, which is one of the ones that we'll talk about, and she was she was kind of like mind blown by all the shit that I was saying. So it'll be it'll be cool to talk about for sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Yeah, but yeah. Spawn in general, I mean I remember being a kid. Spawn's another one of those guys that um like went crazy with the merch, you know. Like people uh which is another thing actually, I just learned watching this video last night that I mentioned, I'll link in the show notes. But Todd McFarlane started a his own toy company, like a lot of those uh like really professional, collectible, uh like action figure type toys. Uh it was kind of that like he made like he created, I guess some of the spawn characters too come from like he made them as toys first and then put them in the comics. Some of the things it mentioned. Um but yeah, that's another that's another crazy aspect for all of this, and like has to do with how like you were talking about Isaiah, like how it's very art forward, uh or like image, not like the company, like the uh you know, like the po like the poses they're in, like super dynamic, his cape is in all these like crazy unrealistic positions and stuff. And uh um, it's cool that that's like an an integral part of the character, you know, and also part of Todd McFarland's career, right? Like making the toy line, like all that, all that stuff. It's all sort of but I and the point that started me on this tangent was I remember as a kid, there'd be like I was a big like um like skateboard kid when I was little. I mean, I'm still a skateboard guy. But um at the skate park, like hella spawn t-shirts, you know, like it was uh especially like early 2000s, like even before I was able to go figure out like who spawn was, he was one of those uh kind of like Venom, also we mentioned it's like one of those characters you just uh you just see and you're likeass imagery, yeah, definitely getting it through like osmosis, just be yeah, seeing everybody wearing these things.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

But yeah, I'm I'm trying to think about it. I feel like I must have, I feel like I we've talked about a bunch of like the image of characters. We talked about that with Spider-Man and things like that, how like you know, again, every you're just like absorbing this stuff through like the the cultural zeitgeist of of superheroes and things like that. But yeah, crazy for that. It makes so much sense for that time period too, for spawn being like that kind of like aesthetic. I feel like I remember those yeah, I remember those t-shirts, not at the skate park, but I feel like even in like middle school or some shit like that, people were wearing some some cool stuff like that too.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

It's also very 90, it's very representative of what was going on in the 90s, like even in imagery for like bands and album art and all the stuff like the chains and the spikes and the straps and guns and all you know. That was very uh that was very like popping at the time, and also unique, uh unique for a superhero to be, you know, like a lot of people would see spawn and just like assume that he's a villain, or but even um and it's very uh you know it's cool, it's iconic, it's iconic imagery.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah, it's a little off talk, but I feel like the 90s almost every superhero had some crazy getup. Like it was the most overdone getup that they've ever had. I think um didn't Superman have some weird look, or maybe it was Super Boy, I remember. But yeah, they were super overstylized during that era.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Yeah, and I mean Spider-Man got like um the clone, the Ben Riley clone. Like I'm so edgy, like yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yeah, it is uh definitely like an edge word time.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Batman got like uh I remember I remember seeing um something on Reddit. It was like Batman in the 90s got like a armor, like a power armor. He got a bunch of spikes on his shoulders and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Like that's so crazy. Makes sense. Who knows? I wonder who influenced who we'll see. But um, yeah, crazy. I think that this is I mean, we'll get into it. I think the art and just the way that they build spawn as a character with with again, with this being like this living thing. I mean, it's kind of interesting to have like, for example, even like the chains and like whatever else are like part of this living creature. But anyway, we'll we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Should we should we just jump into issue number 30? I'll read the the summary of the stuff.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, or actually do we do we want to um Isaiah, do you want to do you wanna just talk a little bit about Spawn's origin? Uh like not even super specific, but just like off the dome, like what um I mean Antonio read uh read a little description of it, but um do you like what do you what it what's the what's like the key stuff that we gotta know?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

I mean, I think he pretty much touched on. I mean, he was a one of the most elite assassins, um, was betrayed, I believe, by uh Jason Wynne, had him killed, and then you go to hell, you end up becoming you know a hell spawn, and then you think that you're going back to get you know your wife Wanda, uh, and you're coming back like some years later, no, you know, memories of how you got there, having to piece, you know, piece by piece everything together. And then eventually you find out that your wife is with your best friend, and I'm pretty sure uh that they end up having a kid too. So it's kind of just a really fucked up kind of way of coming back. And then on top of that, now you're you're thrown into this this role that you never wanted to begin with, and then you're you're having to deal with and Antonio touched on a little bit, like um, you know, having Nhell pulling at you um and trying to manipulate you and use you. And I think in these early issues, Spawn is it's really um it's really uh shows that Spawn is still in that headspace where he doesn't know what he wants to be, who he wants to be, and how he wants to do it. He just knows that he wants to protect the people he cares about, which goes back into you know him trying to uh find any way he can to get back to his his wife. Um but you know, what that's the interesting thing about it is honestly, I'm you know, reading it, it made me excited to see where does he go. I've heard some pretty crazy stuff about how much uh you know power and and how many much cool things happen after the fact, um, especially after the first hundred issues, but it's still interesting to see, you know, his his his head space in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah, that it is it is a very interesting kind of like start to this backstory. And I think that, I mean, the issue that we're looking at right now, um, and the way that you talked about like obviously protecting the people that he cares about, but I do think it's also really interesting, like that one of his things is uh protecting like uh homeless people and like people who are disenfranchised and whichever else. Like that's seems to be kind of and that'll also be very, very much shown in this first issue, which is super interesting, or the first issue that we're reading, which is issue number thirty. Wow. All right, so let me say. Yeah, we have a we have a little um summary of the of the issue. Yeah, we do. We do. So I'll I'll read through this right now. So basically, Spawn is making his way back to New York after a trip through hell uh and he ends up uh in the American South. Uh he's spawned, he basically wandered Spawn's funny. He wanders into clan country and encounters um this guy, uh Brad Armstrong, who's a black man whose family is being targeted for elimination by a local KKK chapter. Um Spawn intervenes but is shot in the head and lynched from a tree. He survives, recovers, traces the conspiracy to the local judge. That shit was crazy. Uh very Trudeau, you know? Who's secretly running the clan operation? Um Spawn's solution is basically um uh he uses necroplasm to transform the judge into a black man. And when the rest of the clan that was with this dude shows up and finds him in robes, they end up lynching him. So they basically lynched their own leader, which is fucking insane. So um he ends up leaving uh Brad, uh this farmer who is um being attacked by these guys, the judge's files uh implicating the local government corruption, promises he won't be bothered anymore, and then heads heads off to New York. So crazy, super I think powerful first issue. I think um I I mean it it gets even more interesting, I think, actually reading this stuff in the back that we'll we'll talk about later on, just with people's um reactions to this, which I thought were super interesting, because again, this is like this is issue number 30, and so it's probably still you know in the 90s and whatever else, right? And obviously, as time goes on, all these racial conversations and things like that uh improve, but I can't imagine the 90s were like always the most favorable for maybe stories like this, but also stories like these written by a white guy. But that's uh that's neither here nor there. But crazy first is interesting, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Yeah, it is a cool, I mean, just I mean, not even like just spawn being uh black like we talked a lot about representation in superhero context when we did our Black Panther episode. Um and it is I mean, it yeah, it's it's it is interesting. It's an interesting topic for somebody to be trying to like have the Todd McFarlane like white guy be like, I'm writing this KKK edition. Like it's um kind of sick.

unknown 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

And again, like you were saying, Antonio, like pretty uh, you know, it feels it feels ahead of its time in in ways, you know. I mean, I'm sure these conversations were being had in the 90s, but uh, we don't know how it how that would have come like come across, you know what I mean? Right. Like to what extent um like how people would have received that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I imagine it was probably pretty controversial. I mean, if we're talking about even the art, like the cover image is pretty iconic in itself and and it's powerful in a way. Um but yeah, no, I agree. I definitely think it was controversial for those reasons that you stated, but also uh I think it's super important, no matter who it was written by, to showcase a story like this and to and to make you know black people feel more empowered that hey, we have a superhero here that you know you know maybe gets us a little bit because obviously Spawn is black, but also um will protect us in you know that sort of um in a sizable way or something.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Right. Right. And just to illustrate it, what what Isaiah is referencing, the the at least our version of the cover for um Spawn uh issue 30 is spawns literally like hanging from a noose, and the whole background is just white. The whole thing is just just framing him um you know, limp and uh, you know, cost to mind like lynchings, obviously, uh like right away. Um so it's pretty sort of like shocking to see.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Uh and um right, it's dead on from the beginning about what it's what it's about. You can't you can't open this issue without kind of knowing the direction that it's that it's going in, which I think I think, like you said, is is a very powerful thing, and especially like early on um doing that kind of thing is is very important. Um so diving into this, I mean we we kind of talked about the basics of this already, but you know, uh Spawn shows up in the south, he ends up basically realizing he runs into the KKK, realizes that he needs to um kind of protect this um farmer who originally is like, Hey, you look crazy, I'm gonna kill you. Like, because Spawn rolls up obviously with all of his chains and like his whole suit on and his cape. The other thing is also that he's like um he's like malnourished at this point. He's he's like his cape. And that's the interesting thing about him too. Yeah, his cape is all tattered, his cape kind of shows like how strong he is um at any certain point. Uh and there, like you said, I mean, there are moments that kind of make him look kind of villainy in these, but you know, they they end up saying to him, you know, good for you. Uh uh, you know, I got a message for you that you can take back to your clan friends. Because the guy originally thinks that he's clan too. And he says, I'm not from the clan, and he says, Then why do you wear your masks? Are you, you know, who are you? What are you hiding? And Spawn's like, my past, right? He's like looking like kind of like Batman-like or whatever else, um, you know, in the dark. But I think what's also actually very interesting is this next um little section where they basically kind of have him talking about the um the uh I'm trying to look for the right word, but I'm gonna say structural for now, but the structural issues with the way that uh, you know, America and the way that uh the world and and white pol pe white people in particular in this case, like treat black people and all. I might I might actually read this whole page, but um, you know, starting with this, it says, You see, I've dealt with the white man too. Those boys are always in the power positions, ready to use and abuse the black community. Somehow we're never good enough to do the skill to work, but uh but God, uh how they love us picking up their garbage. Whenever the black man or the black whenever the backlash comes, they shrink back into their holes, making us the targets for public scrutiny, the sacrificial lambs, the black sheep. And when confronted, they give that same plastic smile and tell us to be patient. The best we get is the government quotas forcing them to hire minorities for bogus positions. My friend Terry became one of their token blacks. If we try to leave, they just replace us with the next one who was let uh into the line as someone far too eager to please to even notice the danger signals. Uh so believe me, I understand your anger, but they've only torched your fields when they uh when they had all they could stomach of me. They torched something far more precious. That's why I wear the mask because of them. This is like uh so Spawn is saying this to um this farmer down in the south, and he also actually ends up taking off his mask where we see his like again, he almost he he looks like intensely disfigured. He is it's almost looks like he got split like down the middle or something like that with the um the sewing that goes up the middle of his face. But uh, you know, again, we we don't even take this from just like a oh like KKK bad, like we're gonna fight against the KKK. They're like, hey, Spawn actually is talking about like the way that they've been treat you know, black people have been treated over time, and uh I want to say structural. There's a number of things. I mean institutionalized. There that's the word that I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Institutionalized racism, yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly. So um I think it's pretty impressive and and good that they start uh right off, and again, this is I don't even know what page like three or four or something like that, or maybe like eight or something like that, but really early on in the issue where they kind of they take the problem head on before before even getting into like the rest of the shit, they're like, yeah, KKK is bad, and there's all the rest of this stuff too, which I think is super important.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Right. That is a really good point. You know, it's not just the KKK, it's not just oh, here's this scapegoat over here, these like villainous bad guys or whatever. It's like, nah, like the we're like we are also the bad guys, our institutions are the bad guys, like all these things that we're not um addressing in you know, the way the government treats people, uh you know, he's talking specifically about him and special forces or whatever, but you know, we can take the like we can draw this out to parallel to anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And it's still relevant today, so I mean that's just crazy. But no, I I mean when I saw this, I thought like this is insanely crazy. I could see this just this little mini story alone being turned into like a kick-ass, like almost Quentin Tarantino-esque, yeah, uh like short episode or something. That's kind of what it reminded me of. And then that's what also made me think of Jamie Foxx. I know it's getting a little bit uh off the off the rails ever with that movie, so I'm really excited to see like um what they will do with the character, but also just looking into like some of the imagery and and as we dive a little bit deeper into the story, what Spawn ends up doing to sort of get back at the um KKK, but also make you know um Brad Armstrong and his family feel safe again.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Right, right, yeah, wild. Um and so with this, they it's kind of interesting. He he pulls up to um uh basically find these KKK guys. They're I mean, it's it's it's almost like fantastical again, like how I mean, obviously it was like this in certain situations, but like they're they're really, I think, rightfully portrayed as just like this kind of crazy, like evil, you know, evil cult as they as they are. Um, and he rolls up and basically pours a bunch of oil in this pipe, blows up uh a pipe underneath their car, sending them flying. It's crazy because he he he he also at that moment is like, you know, he's like looking super cool. He's like, leave the uh Armstrong ranch alone, and then they just shoot him in the head and end up hanging him basically that same time. And and what we don't realize is actually the person who kind of I think takes command of that moment um is the person who we find out later on is also a judge in that in that count here in that area. But so again, pretty harrowing image of spawn um hanging from this tree. I think it's interesting. It's almost like the cape, obviously, yeah, and we talked about it being kind of on the weaker end right now, but it kinda it almost like looks like I don't know, part of the tree or like the the the way that it's just drawn there is pretty pretty crazy. But again, pretty hardcore image to get us started in this in this story. And then we we actually end up breaking into this kind of like side piece of um being in New York with these two cops, which I don't know if Isaiah, if you know more about that in particular off the top of your head. Um, because I think I I did go back and read issue number one just to see if there was anything else. And these I think these cops have been in it from the beginning, which is kind of interesting. But do you do you know any other context on them for for now?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Oh, I think this is like a whole side um arc. I believe that one um guy in this page on page 12, the cop who's um shooting at the criminal, I believe, there's like a blood something mini-series that kind of goes into detail about what happens to him. Uh and and we'll discuss this a little later, I'm sure, when we go into the I think it's issue 33, when you see him all beaten up and tattered, and and um I'm pretty sure that the guy who goes to see him is either his partner or um maybe the guy who ends up who ends up betraying um Al Simmons, which is Spawn. Um, but either way, uh, but no, that's that's all I know. That's all I can remember. I just know that there's some side plot about them. They're looking for something, but I can't remember exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I remember just um they are recurring cop characters that are kind of like on the on the side that are solving like street level um stuff. Like I got the the spawn uh like compendium or something um a bunch of years ago when I was still living in New York, and I read, I think I probably read the first, I want to say like 10 issues or something like that. Um and they were I think they're in it in the beginning as well, I'm pretty sure. I recognize the one who got uh, like you said, got put in the hospital or whatever, but I think they're I wonder if they're if oh go ahead. No, no, no, that's always that's the end of my point. Like I think they are just on I think they're reoccurring side characters, like in the in the spawn universe. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah, I was gonna say, I wonder if they're kind of I guess akin to like a um detective Gordon kind of thing. I think they're just people who try to help, you know, solve the issues on the human level within that, you know, dark city that they live in.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Right, yeah. And I mean one of the things that they say, right, is you know, if that uh one of these guys says if that file spawn gave to us is is to be believed, the chief's career is finished. And I think we actually learn a little bit more about that as we go forward. But there's this whatever police chief there is is like super corrupt um and uh doing some crazy shit. Um Okay. Yeah, and then following along with this, um what ends up happening is that this guy, Brad Armstrong, ends up I think he's the one who actually cuts down Spawn from this tree, and uh immediately after this, the KK guy KKK guys show up and um say a bunch of racist, insane shit uh actually right away. Um and then uh yeah, they realize, oh actually, I can't remember, I think he doesn't get him down, or maybe Spawn's already gone. But anyway, it leads into them going into court, and this guy Brad Armstrong is trying to take these KKK guys to court. Um they end up basically sh bringing in the guys who actually I guess got hurt during that big explosion. Um, and what ends up happening is that the judge is like, you know, don't waste my time with this bullshit. I encourage you to you know find some evidence because you know, murder is a very serious charge, all this blah blah blah shit, whatever else, right? And then immediately after that, we see that the judge is like the commanding officer of these KKK guys. He's yeah, he's he's the one who's yelling, soon, very soon, brothers, you know, and then the guys in the background are like, damn, the judge sure is fired up tonight. And I love that they add that too, because it's like, just in case you didn't realize that this is the judge because he's wearing his fucking hat, uh, this is the judge right off the rip.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Um which again is uh you know is very real and ties back to the theme that Spawn like Spawn's little monologue about institutionalized uh racism and stuff like built into the structures, like the people that are supposed to be enforcing and impartial. Impartial people.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

And so we go on. I I actually think it's kind of hilarious the way that Spawn ends up uh starting to just like fuck with these KKK guys uh when he comes back. He like uh some guy's like making moonshine and he pours gasoline in the moonshine. This other dude's like in love with his gun, and he's like, Yeah, he says, you know, it cost him over five thousand dollars, his devotion is a is a touching thing to behold, and basically Spawn ends up stealing this guy's gun. Some other guy like wrecks his truck. I will say it's funny. One of the things that somebody says uh in like writing to um McFarland to uh kind of like critique this issue is that they're like, you know, you you like hella talk shit on people in the South, whenever because it's like, oh, they love their guns and their moonshine and their trucks. Like, if I fuck that shit up for them, then they're gonna be pissed. But um he he goes through and and messes with all these guys and then goes after the judge. And this is actually when we get, I think, another great image um just from uh this comic in general where he's gripping the judge by like the back of his, I don't know, whatever the the cowl thing or whatever it is that they wear. Um, and it's like his cape is like all like it's it's this crazy, and it's again his cape like doesn't even look like a cape half the time, it's like these little like um stringy sinews of like which is we don't know what happened in the previous issues, but it's clearly gotten like shredded up from something that had just happened, you know. Right. That shows his his, I guess, weakness in this case. But so Spawn grabs the judge um and uh basically says, like, you know, you gotta pull up to um you gotta pull up to this place at this time. Don't bring your friends um because you know they're not gonna save you, blah blah whatever else. Um he and I'm trying to make sure I don't skip anything here, but um he ends up basically getting the judge over to this area. The judge lies and says that there's nobody that's gonna be with him. They end up pulling up, he's like, uh, you know, I can easily uh Spawn is saying to him, you know, I can easily snuff out your life. Oh, your boys have finally arrived. The judge thinks that he's the cool guy. He says, That's right, you know, that means you're a dead man. You must have forgotten about my friends. And then Spawn says, the thing that I think is like the crux of uh what they're trying to the point that they're trying to drive home at the end of this issue is which is he says, then let's just see how well your friends know you. And there's a big flash of green light. Um this also made me just like because I haven't read the rest of Swan. I'm like, what exactly are this man's powers, bro? He's got some very specific shit that he's able to do. But basically, the KKK guys end up running into this house and they find this black man in the KKK robes, and they're like, Oh my god, that's terrible. Um, the guy's saying, like, you know, Bill, Gary, what are you guys doing? It's you know, you're messing with me. Um, and before the actual end of this issue, we see that Spawn goes to this guy, um, Brad, and gives him these documents that show that the judge is corrupt. He basically says, you know, this should uh this will help you get through all this legal bullshit. Um no body of government outside this county will disregard these facts. Um and uh, you know, Spawn basically ends up saying, you know, after this guy says thank you, he says, you know, I hope I think the judge got the message. And then the last image of this uh of this issue is the feet of somebody as the KKK guys run off into their car, and what we end up kind of making the assumption uh using that black space in between uh in between the panels is that the judge ended up getting hanged by his own KKK brethren because and it I think sh again showing I think the point of this, right, is to show the absurdity of doing something like this where you're like basically this person who has all of the same traits as the person that you like except for their skin color, and you're you know, this terrible and heinous and fucking shitty to them. But so that ends our first issue, which is a dive into a very serious and meaningful topic. Um, what did you guys think of this so far? I mean, Isaiah, you're our you're our guest this week. So what was I mean, and this I guess maybe is a reread for you, I can't remember, but what did you think of this one?

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, I mean, insanely powerful. I think it's it as we go into the other issues, it's sort of its own like side story, but it has, you know, uh an important message. Uh I liked it, I thought it was cool. Um, and then just so a little more context, the green flashes that you'll see throughout the issues is I think necroplasm, right? Um, and but he only has a limited amount that he, I guess, can use before he either gets like dragged back to hell or something happens, but um we'll get into this also. But in the next issue, I believe, there's hints that he's used it before. Uh, and so I think he could use it to do almost anything that he wants. Um, teleport, change people's physical characteristics, like he changed the judge from being white to black, and then that ends up you know leading to his demise. But overall, this issue, yeah, super powerful. I thought it was great. It kind of reminded me of like a mini Quentin Tarantino story, like I said. Um obviously not as you know, not really as vulgar. The KKK members did say some fucked up shit, but it wasn't like anything that's like whoa, whoa, whoa, Quentin Tarantino's firing away with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So um I think it was it was well done. I think it it got the message across. But then again, I mean, if we want to dive even a little deeper, you can still kind of see where the artistic um like choices sort of trump the overall story because it is still kind of spacey, it's a little clunky um in how it, you know, the stories go about, but they're also pretty short being only 25 pages. Um overall, I enjoyed it and I and I agree, yeah. Seeing his cape, you know, the tattered and and destroyed cape, but still having so much emotion expression, and then um, you know, just seeing how he handles the situation in general.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Right. You know, actually, real quick, I want to jump in and say something about the cape thing. I think what could be an interesting aspect of this too, right, is that obviously he does end up using his powers at the end, but I feel like a lot of this issue is actually him not being able to use powers and solving this kind of like again, like you don't have to be a superhero to do some of the shit that he did. Obviously, the last thing, which is this big crux, is something that requires that, but the rest of it, right, is like some shit that you can do. It's almost like um, you know, it's it's resistance in the face of of whatever else doing all this uh shit to them to to to fuck with them. So that's it's an interesting concept there with the with the cape as well.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Yeah, I I mean I thought the whole the whole issue was great. I think it was a a really good recommendation. So thanks for thanks for sure for bringing this one to the table, Isaiah. Um to the art is just incredible too, like aside from the story and the the impact from the story, like going to some of our Scott McCloud uh like concepts or whatever, the the way that they're doing the uh the text, the the word bubbles and everything is all super creative. Those like set a lot of tone. Like in the beginning, we get these really spooky blue ones that are over the like night sky. Uh pretty much everything is giving us like a tone and an atmosphere, um, and you know, like all this sort of like horror supernatural elements that Spawn has going on, like all the art, all the text, everything is kind of um serving that, you know. And then also Spawn's Spawn's uh word bubbles have their own little like silver border around. I was just about to say that. Really good way for us to differentiate and know when Spawn is talking. Another cool comic thing that we just encountered, some some of our first examples of it, Antonio, but is a lot more common in these older comics is the little uh blurb saying, like, for more context on this, uh blah blah, which is cool to see. Um some of them cracked me up too, though, because there'd be ones that were like, This is from the issue before. Like, right, they're like, Go read the last one.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

It's in case you missed a week ago, yeah, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

So the those, yeah. Um, so some of those kind of made me smile, but in general, um, I mean, the art is just like so detailed, so dynamic. The panel layout is like completely different, page to page. He's not really following any exact pattern or rules for himself, he's just expressing it um, you know, uh just chaotically, you know. Uh there's a lot of shots too where there'll be like a larger piece of art in the background, and then some panels will be overlaid on top of that bigger image, uh, which I think works really well. Right. Um and yeah, I mean, one of the things too that I just um thought about like the these type of conversations and like thinking about the clan and these type of institutionalized things in the 90s, I just searched up the uh the rage against the machine song killing in the name. You guys know that one? That's the one where they say like some of those that work forces are the same that burn cross. And that was one of those like punk things that people like to see in like the early 2000s. And that actually that song came out in 1992, which was the same when Spawn started. And a lot of that was apparently following up from the Rodney King beating, uh, which was in 1991. And in 1992, the Los Angeles riots, uh, uh, which was this was all specifically protesting, um, like this song was protesting police brutality and everything and systematic racism that was going on in LA at the time. Um but I don't know, it's just interesting. Like, obviously, we're we're here now and we have our own civil rights movements and and conversations that that people our age are having. But it's kind of interesting to see that I bet you know this is part of what was going on in the conversation in the early 90s, uh, and I'm sure was another there. I'm sure if we go back to that that period, like 92 through 95 or whatever, I'm sure we could find a bunch of examples um where people were trying to bring these type of uh you know um racial inequality conversations into different kinds of media. And so it's it's cool to, you know, it's cool to see that.

unknown 45:10

It's cool.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

I would think like there's probably not there's probably still not that many stories where this is clearly shown uh in comic book form, you know. There's only so few black um you know, superhero, anti-hero, whatever you name it, characters. Um so I would imagine this is probably one of you know very few that uh is this prominent, but also, you know, this focused on that kind of a topic.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, very true. I mean it was it's interesting in a comparison, right, to Black Panther, which we read recently, right? Where there's this kind of other take on um on just the way of portraying blackness, right? And it's I mean it's a beautiful take where it's got this you know community that has been kind of um isolated from the world, has developed this richness, this technology, this in you know, uh unbelievable society, right? And then kind of um and and that's uh I think a beautiful thing in its own right, uh, but or and I guess not even but, but and I think it's important, right, to show these kind of sides of this story as well, right? Where there is this um, you know, terrible history, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

And specifically you're talking about uh Armstrong, like his family ranch, you know, these people who were able to get land um when it that's something that was like denied them for so long, and how important that's passed down in their family, um, you know, and the judge and everybody coming out of the room.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

I was gonna say this land was owned by his grandpa, right? That's that was the other big thing that was it's like you know, this land and you know, the assumption, right, also that this land would be handed down probably realistically, especially from this time maybe even sharecroppers or whatever else, right? So the land is not only just the land, right? It's the history of the land that that that we're protecting here as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Right. And it's just a very cool setting, important setting. Also makes me think about uh sinners, right? Which is something else.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, exactly. I was thinking that too.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Yeah, like media set in that uh like Jim Crow era south is um just so fascinating and so important for us to confront, you know, and really make sure we don't that stays part of the like consciousness now, you know, like for as much as much progress as as has been made. Um there's like more to go. There's more to go, and also it's important to know not too long ago what things were really like for real.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Um absolutely. It was interesting, you know. So one thing I'll say, and I for some reason I cannot find I I feel like maybe it's in the back of some other issue. Um, but you know, there what was really interesting about the way that these comics were done, right, is that people were able to write in and kind of give uh comments and concerns or you know, share their enjoyment with the artists and the the writers of this. And what you know, I think it was maybe even two of the people that actually wrote in that um uh he ended up responding to were talking about kind of their automatic feeling of feeling like misrepresented in this, where they're talking about the South, right? And and you know, he obviously only gives kind of like one perception of the South in this, right? But it's interesting that um and I mean I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's presumptuous of me to expect certain things of who those people were that were writing and being like automatically offended, but um I think it's uh it's interesting that uh that reaction exists, right? Just because it's you know, you would you you wouldn't assume that and actually I think that McFarland actually says this, where he says, you know, I write about cops and you know there being crooked cops and things like that, but every time that I write about a crooked cop doesn't it's not an indictment. I mean maybe it somewhat is, but like it's not an indictment on every cop ever that I'm writing about this crooked cop, right? And so he says, in the same way that I write about that, I'm writing about this here. This is not to be a total indictment on the South, but to acknowledge the crooked and you know fucked up shit that does exist there, right? So I think I think he had a pretty good response where he was kind of like he was like, sorry you got offended, but this is this is what I'm doing. So, you know, it is what it is, and it's already out. So what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_03 48:53

But cool. It's also cool, I mean, to that specific point, right? Like poetic justice is one of those things in uh in like writing, right? People try to use in uh and uh like specifically what you were talking about, um like the the guy who loves moonshine, his moonshine getting filled with gas, and the guy who loves his gun, his gun, like that's uh uh all those are different little examples of poetic justice, which often happens in like fairy tales or mother goose type stories or whatever, right? Where there's the the punishment is somehow related to um not necessarily the crime, but like the identity of the person um this is getting the punishment, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Also, there's already thousands of examples of millions of examples of white people being painted in a positive light, no matter what area, state, country, uh whatever the situation is. So I mean, and and it's it's perfect to you. I mean, it's it's important to acknowledge the bad that goes on, but to your point, Antonio, it is crazy how some people always try to spin it back on how um, even though it had nothing to really do with them, how it made them feel victimized.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Yeah, and I'm I'm I actually found it out. And and I didn't even realize this when I first read these, but the two people that responded were like 15 and 17. So I don't know if they really had the context for what it is that they were responding to. But it is interesting, right, still that they had that kind of like perspective. And I mean, there's actually this one kid who was 15 who said, you know, I'm not saying that there are no racists in the South, but there are no more I think that this is you know contestuous, but he says there are no more here than the in the North, and the very few racists that I know do not belong to the clan. You just he says you just spit in the face of all Southern readers of this title and given others a bit poor misconception of the South, very disappointed. And I think it's actually very cool just as a comic thing that he responds to this shit. I feel like you don't like the the way that we have this now is like through Twitter and like other random like bullshit where people are just like, hey, fuck you, and they don't even say what they don't like. At least this kid, although I think he may be slightly misguided in his understanding of what's going on here, I think the fact that he sat down and actually wrote out his thoughts and was like, This is why I feel this way. I don't, you know, I hope that you don't think that the South is still like this all over the place, or whatever else. Like he's trying, I think, to take the point. Did you find did you find it? Yeah, yeah. I was able to find it. It's in like ish it's in the back of issue number 32, I think it is, right? Yeah, it's page 33 and issue 32, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but so yeah, it's interesting. Um, you know, he ends up but anyway, McFarland says, you know, I I would agree with, you know, I think a good amount of what you said. I try to do a story on race and trying to drive the point home in only 22 pages. Sometimes you don't have time to flesh out all your characters, and so we try to get to the heart of the matter by trying to conjure up simplistic images. I apologize. It's funny, he says, I apologize if I offended you or other people who live in the south, believe me, it wasn't intentional. I think that that's probably true. I think you know, nowadays you'd be like, hey bro, why the fuck are you apologizing? Like tell that tell that kid to go to school, like you know, whatever else. But I think I just think it's interesting that he does take the time to respond, though.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

I mean, I'm a I'm a Yankee hater. Like I this dude's offended that we're talking about moonshine and guns and trucks. Like it's 2026. Listen to listen to listen to country truck. Listen to country pop radio. Like, literally, all these motherfuckers want to sing about is their alcohol, their guns, and their trucks, and women. So I'm I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

At least they're not saying about the racism off the rip, but yeah, it's anyway. We could we could we could go on probably forever about this 15-year-olds understanding. These kids are cutthroat. I'm looking into uh they're all very direct, but anyways. They are it's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Um, but yeah, so it is amazing that uh there's like this kind of dialogue between between the fans and the artists, too, like especially then where they would have to be writing letters, you know, it's not just like the Twitter back and forth, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Right, exactly. Yeah, where you just again you say one thing and you just move on. And we'll actually we'll talk about actually one of these later on I want to touch on, which is actually somebody who uh owned a comic book store and kind of speaks to um how they feel about Marvel and a bunch of the stuff they were doing at the time. But anyway, that's issue number 30. We'll dive into issue number 31 here, which jumps away from that part of the of the story and goes back into Spawn returning to New York. Um so I'll read this little little summary here um and then we'll get into it. So Spawn returns to New York City and reclaims his throne in the alleys. Um the homeless community welcomes him back warmly, though some grumble that danger usually follows him, which is probably true. Um basically Heaven ends up selecting a new uh Redeemer, which uh there's I'm sure that there's a bunch of context for this, but it feels like it's like the like counter to Spawn. Like there are hell spawns and then there are redeemers, and there can be a bunch of maybe hell spawn, a bunch of redeemers, but very similar in kind of the costume and different things like that. Um but so there's this guy, Phil Temper, he's the reformed ex-convict, um, who is chosen because of his new genuine purity of heart, making him far more powerful than previous Redeemers. He's a guy, he was a convict, and now he's like this like Bible thumper, you know, whatever else. Um the Redeemer arrives and detects uh this guy, Bobby, who's one of Spawn's friends, um, because he had basically previously had nec uh Spawn had used Necroplasm, his power to resurrect this guy, Bobby. Um uh in this fight that they end up having, Spawn gets totally defeated. It kind of is related to what we talked about with his cape being totally tattered. It's because he's kind of in this weakened state. Um but so rather than finish him off, the Redeemer teleports away with this guy Bobby, um, Spawn's friend, to the heavens portal station or wherever else. Spawn's left uh totally fucked up. Um and then um yeah, I mean this is kind of like the first step into I feel like the next couple of issues, but yeah, we get this new idea of this Redeemer Um who is the again, like I said, counter to Spawn. And we also again, I think, get more of Spawn's backstory where he is this guy who shows up and um these like two homeless guys are like waiting for him. Like they're like, ah damn, I don't want to touch all the stuff that's over here because yeah, maybe he'll come back. But anyway, what did you guys think of this this issue?

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a cool introway to you know get an idea of Spawn's world, especially if you didn't get to read any of the previous issues. Um, him being kind of like almost this leader of of um homeless people or like people who have been forgotten um or maybe you know uh treated poorly, it's kind of cool to me. I think that's a unique concept that you don't really see. Usually superheroes are this beacon of hope for the average citizen or or whatever, but he's this beacon of hope for this homeless underground. Um at least that's what it seems like, and and they all seem to idolize him. Uh, but I thought it was a cool, you know, uh intro into that. But also as we get into it, just like some of these characters are super outlandish and and and kind of mysterious, and and there's a lot going on that uh that's still not completely explained. So excited to dive into that too. For sure. What do you think, Ben?

SPEAKER_03 55:47

Yeah, I mean, super great, really, really cool. I I mean, I I as you guys both just touched on the homelessness thing, like that's just so unique, like honestly. Not even in a super deep, like just representation of homeless people in in like a positive light.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Like the fact that those are just like his guys, and that's where they're his boys, like he rolls up and he's like he's almost like no. Yeah, it's like my dogs, which is super fire.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

That's very cool. I I think I like low-key, I can't think of another example of um, I mean, let alone a comic, just like a show or something where the protagonist chooses to live amongst the homeless. Um I don't know, it's cool, it's very uh it's it's unique. Yeah, I I totally think so.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

And I mean, beyond that, the issue the issue also is very cool. Um right, right, right, yeah. But the yeah, that first crux. I mean, I think it's it's pretty wild that we get into this. Obviously, he uh ends up um showing up with his boys and actually kind of scares them at first, which again just shows kind of how good of friends they are. Like the fact that he can jump out in his crazy ass costume and not expect them to like run forever after that, which is so wild, but they're like, Yeah, where the hell have you been? Also, that's just a fun expression for him is where the hell have you been? Because he's Hellespond, but um you know, not a chance I'd miss you guys too much. Again, like these are his boys, these are like his actual friends. This is not just like, hey, uh, whatever that one movie is where it's like, hey, concerned citizen, like, love you too, you know, whatever else from like the distance, right? He's like, these are my these are my my dogs. Um the other interesting part of this, right, is that we get this um at least our first uh info on heaven, right? Where um it's commanded by these angels, and it seems like they're all kind of like these um middle-aged to older, I don't know if they're all white women, but at least and this is what I think that they are, but they're all these like middle-aged older women um who are handling all this. We have this new um person, Raphael, right? So again, I think specifically referencing certain angels um in particular, but who's now taking over the um orbital station from somebody who I guess had uh messed up previously. I guess they say that it's an embarrassing debacle dealing with the current spawn. Um and I think that actually Spawn mentions this in the beginning of the last issue. We didn't touch on this, but he says something about like trying to get back to his wife, and but this angel had like come on to him at some point. So I'm wondering if that's that lady. For those of you who have read this, jump in the comments and tell us some some shit about that. But yeah, pretty interesting portrayal of heaven and the angels so far. I don't know. What do you guys think of this portrayal of of heaven in this case? Um, I mean, it's different, I feel like, than a lot of the stuff that I've seen so far.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

Yeah, starting off with, I mean, yeah, it's interesting. It seems like these angels are they have some sort of I don't know if they're possessing these old ladies' bodies or they just are transforming into these old ladies to appear more innocent. Right. Um, but that is interesting. And then yeah, they have this huge tower, it looks like overlooking um New York. Um, but it it's it is interesting, but it also feels like they're somewhat ominous themselves. Like it doesn't seem like they're truly a representation of what you might deem heaven as, which is pure, you know, good and and everything like that. So it seems like they have some sort of ulterior motive um to sort of you know be a crux in spawn's uh life, and then going into some of these other hellfire, uh I guess not hellfire, maybe angel fire creatures, I don't know, yeah, um, that are trying to build this anti-Spawn suit pretty much, or it's already formed. Um, but it also gives you an insight into how that those suits are sentient, and they're it's sort of like like moving and and flowing as it's being uh shown on page, I think it's eight. Um, but yeah, it's it is super interesting. And then just diving into that whole and then and then it gets into like all these different um side plots, and like you said, starting with Terry Fitzdrail trying to like hack into CIA data, um, I think to get information on that Jason Wynne guy. So there's a lot going on in these first like 10 pages, but it is super interesting.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Yeah, and we get another we get another moment of spawn sitting on kind of the the throne. I mean, it literally is like a throne of trash that they've built um in this alleyway. Um and he basically is kind of detailing to his guys that you know they say that no one is safe, no one seems safe from conflict, not angels, not children. Uh and I think that actually a couple issues ago, there was something that they they touched on with like child abuse, actually, one of these issues, which is pretty interesting. But Spawn goes on to say that a bunch of angels dragged me to heaven, then dump me in the deep south. Um being uh being a spawn makes me prime a prime item on their agenda. It just took them this long to, or took me this long to get back without using uh the limited energy that that devil gave me. And there's some so some creatures was giving him at least some of this energy. Um being away was a chance to see that my existence isn't the only one that's out of control. Um so they end up kind of like I mentioned, they basically end up finding this guy who was um in prison. He becomes this total Bible thumper guy who's like this perfect little like side part gentleman um serving uh yeah at this soup kitchen uh that says Jesus saves, and they basically zap him up to the uh orbital area, and they they it's crazy what they do, and I think that this is another thing that like shows like heaven is not just like heaven, is like they do they call it yeah, nuclear fire diffusion, when they basically just like tear this dude into pieces to rebuild him into the Redeemer, right? That doesn't seem very like I don't know if everybody who was like Bible thumbing up, they were like, Yeah, bro, I'm I can't wait for them to pull me up there and diffuse me into whatever else. So it's pretty interesting the way that they portray uh heaven and the angels here, I think for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

It's definitely cool how they're setting it up like um you know, morally, like how not everything that's coming out of hell is automatically evil, and not everything that's happening with heaven is automatically good, right? Yeah, just uh some of the best stories are the ones where there's a lot of moral ambiguity going on, you know. Um and so I mean sometimes it could be fun for things to be very, very uh, you know, binary, like black and white or whatever, but a lot of times it's a lot more interesting when there's more more depth and complexity and we don't know what to expect. And um the nuance. The nuance, yeah. Yes, indeed. Something else that was just cool in this issue for me is like the uh in the very beginning when he's pulling back uh up to New York, like hopping off the train and whatever, and then like running through the skyline. All that imagery is uh is really cool, just like how it's depicting the city, you know. And then also another interesting thing is like we get this straight up, we get this really big shot of um the Twin Towers. I was gonna say, yeah, which is like very iconic uh New York stuff from before our era, obviously, uh different New York from the one that Antonio and I got to know. Yep. Um but uh yeah, it's cool. And it's also he pulls up in the train and with a bunch of other homeless people uh coming off the train with him, right? Like they're the boxcars and whatever it says. So it's also interesting. Like we think about superheroes, like uh, you know, traditionally what we would think of like they're flying through the sky, or it's Tony Stark in his like fancy ass, whatever. And uh Spawn is is is just riding the rain.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Yeah, mm-hmm You already know he's a real New Yorker, you know, he's out on the train. Right, he's hopping on the subway, he's jumping to turnstiles. You know what this man's up to, bro. Come on. Um, other random, like kind of interesting thing that I actually realized while reading, I think these issues, but also going back to number one is that there's this page, um, page 14 where they have these news reporters on here. These three news reporters I think are like consistently the news reporters throughout. I mean, I guess Isaiah, I see you nobody at home can see this, but you're nodding about this. Am I right in assuming that they're kind of like the consistent people that are like giving these kind of three different perspectives on the story so far?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's almost like um even just looking today, there's news sources that are very biased to one point of view, and each news source sort of has like this new like perspective on how this guy got snatched, who was this like saint uh ex-convict who um over years became, like you said, this Bible thumper. Um and each one, I think it's got like CNN, uh e News or something like that, and then some like radio station of this really suspicious looking dude. Yeah, and he's the most uh outlandish, definitely has probably the most divisive um and direct language about it, but definitely a cool perspective to see.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Yeah, yeah, pretty wild. And so we go on, we get this uh kind of moment that I talked about with the Redeemer where we see this. I mean, it's crazy. This dude shows up and he again, he's his cape, in contrast, for example, the spawns is like big, billowing whole thing. He looks like shredded as hell. He's I mean, it's crazy. He is ends up also like, and again, this is the confusing thing about Heaven, right? Is that he's using his whatever his kind of like opposite necroplasm thing is to um like control this guy and kind of like understands uh that he was recently touched by necroplasm, brought back to life by Spawn. Um and Spawn ends up showing up and basically being ready to fight against this guy, learns that he's the Redeemer, and Spawn just gets his shit rocked. Like this dude's got a full cape, Spawn has no cape, and he just gets his shit knocked all over the place. Um and he's got full redeemer Yeah, he's got yeah, right, full cape, right? And so what's interesting about the Redeemer thing too is that all of his speech bubbles have like a cross like extending from them, which I think is super interesting. Um and I think we also do we get like a narrator moment here where it's like saying, you know, listen, listen to your costume, it's weak, thus so are you. Spawn is tossed aside, yeah, like a broken ragdoll with each assault. His efforts are almost embarrassing, right? So we get a narrator moment where again, um, it's talking about, yeah, his his costume is weak. And it's interesting they also call it a costume, they're not like your body or your like whatever else. They're like, that shit's a costume, you know. Um, which which I think is just an interesting perspective to take on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

We have that same narrator right in the beginning, too, when he's sitting in the boxcar, right? It's saying like he sits alone, swallowed whole by the darkness. Um, and and is so we have that narrator jumping in and out. I actually don't know, Isaiah. Do you know who's speaking, like who that narrator is? Is that a reoccurring thing in?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Spawn, or is that just like I have no idea to be honest? I I'd like to think it is a recurring thing though, um, but it does bring that sort of um third person perspective, I think, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

It's definitely a thing that was used in uh earlier uh comics a lot, like um like Stan Lee's voice. You know what I'm saying, Antonio? Like a lot of those type of comics would just have uh in addition to the actual character speaking, would have a like and then, dear viewer, we see that we join the hero in New York or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So crazy that this fight is going on. Um, then the Redeemer ends up blasting Spawn. Swan's getting his shit rocked, and then the Redeemer ends up doing even more well, kind of like encasing this other guy um in like this gold, again, like kind of the opposite of of Necroplasm. But Spawn gets blasted. We end up learning that he actually has this gigantic hole in his chest. All of his uh boys pull up and are like, Hey, what's going on? Are you okay? Um, what's kind of crazy too is like they all know like everything about him. They're like, Oh, he's not dead, he's not whatever else. Like, they're not even like worried about him necessarily. They think it's crazy, but um, he has this giant hole in him from some previous battle, and so he basically convinced the Redeemer that he had, you know, blast him or destroyed him by just making him shoot through the same hole that he already had in his in his body. Um the other interesting thing that ends up happening here, right, is that the um the costume actually ends up kind of um reacting to this lack of power, to this lack of whatever else, and basically um lashes out at all the all of Spawn's boys that are around him, and basically he ends up yelling like, you know, uh basically, you know, i I can't recognize who's on my side, run. All the guys are running as the uh again, it's like funny to call it a cape because it definitely feels like more than that, but it's basically just like stretching and whipping out, and we spawn basically has to just wait until um the cape kind of like tires itself out and then it comes back and we get this. Actually, this is a super crazy panel. Also, one other thing, actually, I'll I'll do one thing first. The the thing that has like the spawn logo and then like the numbers. Does anybody know what that is? I I didn't end up looking into that, but that's how much necroplasm he has left.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

Oh dope, yeah, that makes sense. It when it started, it was like 9999 or something. Like it started full when he first became a spawn. So Isaiah actually mentioned that um a little bit ago. So supposedly that's how like that's why he can use his using his costume and whatever doesn't re like take away any of his necroplasm. But then whenever he does like magic, like spooky green magic, that reduces he only has a certain amount left. And then when that goes to zero, he gets dragged back down the hill. So he's kind of incentivized to like not like you were talking about in the issue before, Antonio. He's sort of incentivized to not just rely on his uh his magic all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

That's interesting. So 6971. I wonder if the one is maybe the big thing there, right? Where he's really at the bottom of his uh his power barrel.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:04

It's weird how it's how it's denoted too, with like a bunch of is that like the last four issues or something like that, or something, or is it like no? It's just it's just I think it's just Todd McFarlane being wacky on uh denote it. Fire. But it just counts down, like it goes like the one on the right, it's just like a clock or what you know that goes down. The seven becomes a six, and then the one is a nine, and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

That's so funny. All right, cool. We know that, but we so after that we actually get this crazy, um, I feel like actually one of the crazier art, at least for the panels themselves, right? Where the the cape ends up or the costume ends up waking up, but it says it begins to move, to grow, to breathe, and we get kind of all these like individual shots that are I don't even think you can like put them all together initially, but they're like these really, really thin shots of the cape and spawn like coming back to life. And the the way that the panels are drawn, like the outlines are super like scraggly and like whatever else, which I thought was super cool. Um yeah, then we get the costume lives again. Uh that's the ending part of this, and yeah, pretty wild, ominous, and again, this is kind of again the funny thing where he me kind of has like a Batman like villain type of looking thing where he's just like a guy in the shadows who's got like glowing eyes, and you're like, oh shit, but now he looks strong. We can see that the we only get a little bit of like the actual red of the cape, but it's uh you know it's looking big, billowing. Funny enough, speaking of Batman, there's a gigantic like stream of like 200 bats in this in this uh ending uh view of this image. So who knows? Who knows? Maybe Batman's there too.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:37

But I think a lot of a lot of the spawn stuff sort of feels like it's it's just like the rule of cool type thing, where like it's not as much about like a really hard, hard power set, like oh, this is exactly how it all works, and we're gonna be really specific about it. It's kind of like this looks dope, this is badass. Put that shit in there, baby. Yeah, exactly. Like that's what's it's you know, again, like Isaiah said at the beginning of the the conversation, like it's it's like very art forward, you know. It's very um, which is uh, you know, very cool. Very cool for special.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

I think I think Todd even mentioned uh Todd McFarland. Uh and when he was responding to some of those kids, he's like, Oh, I'm just you know, trying to Hollywoodize it. So he even admits it that he's just trying to, you know, uh had you know that flair to it to make it look super badass. But yeah, I think it's it's really interesting how his suit is kind of just like spazzing out, it's like glitching and going wild, and then it needs to reset. Uh, and you get a bunch of dope panels of him just like almost rebooting because his suit is so exhausted, uh, and and it seems like this suit is sort of like entering this new phase of of becoming something, you know, stronger. Uh so excited to see how it develops more in the next issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

Yeah, agreed. And and this this actually, I think, was such a good issue. I feel like there maybe isn't as much to say of like how did you feel about this issue? Because I think we all like thought it was cool, but I think it was actually maybe specifically cool because it is like a it is like a reintroduction a little bit to like smogs. It's like, hey, he's coming back to New York. What's what is he doing in New York? What do people think about him in New York? Who knows about him? What's going on, right? And we kind of get a bunch of those questions answered. We don't obviously get the maybe the full breakdown of exactly you know where he came from, but we get I think a lot of his essence and a lot of what he means to New York and the people and the specific people of New York as well in this issue, which is super cool. And I guess the big thing that we'll be seeing moving forward is how um heaven and the redeemer fit into this story that's being created here. Because they just took his boy, and I don't think that Spawn with his full cape is gonna uh take that too nicely. So pretty wild. Um but so we'll jump we'll jump forward here into issue number 32. Um Ben, do you want to do the summary for for this one?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

Yeah, for sure. All right, issue 32, June 1995. With the suit upgraded, Spawn goes on offense. He scales Heaven's uh Terran Affairs headquarters and breaks through a window directly into a meeting between Raphael, which is Heaven's head of earthly operations, and a mysterious elderly visitor who calls herself Mary. Spawn takes Mary hostage and demands Bobby's return, threatening her life if he's refused. Raphael, uh unnerved by both the intrusion and the hostage, agrees. Bobby is teleported back to Earth, but the Redeemer comes with him. A fight breaks out. This time Spawn doesn't try to win. He grabs Bobby, detonates a necroplasm bomb in the building, and escapes to street level. The Redeemer pursues, but Spawn teleports Bobby and himself back to the alley.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Yeah, so Spawn's back, his suit's upgraded, he's ready to fucking battle everybody in this in this Heaven's Tower. And this is another one we get crazy um cover art for this one in the first place, but then the first uh page of this issue is so I feel like crazy. Again, it's this dude scaling this tower. It looks like, I mean, I don't even know what to think of this. I mean, because it's like the whole obviously it's New York City, but um the background almost looks like it looks hellish when they're going towards heaven. And we also get this gigantic big like billowing spawn cape that shows how big and crazy this thing can be when it's either at full power or whatever level of power that he's at right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

It's still all tattered up. It's very very spooky look, but but before, you know, in the previous issues it was like scraps. Now it's like enormous, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

Right. Amazing first panel. Actually, I mean these two kind of first pages are crazy. We get the he has a page immediately following that are these all these super detailed shots of him scaling this building, and we get his eyes and and kind of the claws that he has. And I think that this I mean, you see the claws, you see the spikes, you see just kind of everything that is making him into this again, hell spawn, right? That's like the funny thing about this that he's spawn, right? But he is supposed to be this kind of like hell creature that has come back. Um and then we get into a kind of our first uh yeah, real conversation with um these these angels. Um and this woman walks in, you know, basically saying, you know, Miss Raphael, the dignitaries are here, send them in. And yeah, these these other ladies walk in with this um uh definitely way older woman um who the way that they kind of like treat her is that she's definitely like either the head, you know, angel or whatever else. Um it's also interesting the way that she describes kind of what their work is. She says, Our goal is to listen, to learn. We guide only those who ask, and even then they mustn't know it's us. For the human soul is salvation for all of us, which uh is interesting. Like it sounds, I feel like it sounds like a good thing, but it also sounds like I'm like feeding off of human souls. Like that's what it sounds like to me. So I I don't know, I don't know. Interesting angel ladies in these things. But another crazy there's actually a bunch of like back-to-back crazy pages that we have here artistic-wise, which again goes back to our like really heavy focus on art. But Spawn breaks in through these windows. Um, and I think that this is the narrator, but it says, you know, salvation. Does that include the tortured and the damned, right? Which again goes back to Spawn's thing of like the torture of the damned, the disenfranchised, right? Like, do they get the same salvation that we're talking about for all these, you know, whoever else that's working here? And I mean, I would say probably not, but you know, it's interesting to see how they how they take this. But so they get into this big altercation, and again, this is another crazy art piece with Spawn's cape just all over the place. He jumps in, he's trying to find his friend. You know, you've kidnapped my friend, I've come to take him back. And I think this is actually again going back to this disenfranchised thing, like it is so cool to see this guy. He's literally uh taking on heaven to save in the most simplistic sense. Obviously, this guy has his whole life and his whole backstory and who he is to spawn, but in the simplest, most bullshit sense, he's taking on heaven to like save this homeless guy, right? Which I think is such a interesting, again, hell spawn, but such an interesting depiction of who where his morals and where his loyalties lie. It's not to heaven or hell, it's to the people, whoever they may be, and somebody who is you know looked at by society in a certain way or whatever else, right? It doesn't, it doesn't fucking matter, right? These are people. This is somebody who deserves to be saved at the same level of deserving to be saved as as somebody else, which I think is super interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

Spawn for present.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Exactly. Spawn for present. Yeah, I mean, how he chooses to use his necroplasm right there just shows you. I mean, he he I don't know if he knows it's limited or if it's if if he has to find out, but the way he uses it's always to save somebody who who might be, you know, um oppressed in some way. He used it to to get back at the Judge Clansman in issue 30, um, and to help, you know, Brad Armstrong and his family. And then he's using it again um in this issue and previous issues to save you know his friends that are in the homeless community. So it is really interesting, but it also kind of shows, like you said, where his morals stand and and the sort of deviousness that comes with these angels.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:58

Right, right. Right. They definitely don't seem super trustworthy, yeah, super angel. Or appealing, right? Like they're very conniving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

Oh, yeah. And you can see also in that uh issue of that old lady saying this the for the human soul is salvation for all, and that's emphasized uh of us. So uh kind of curious to see what they mean by the Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

We also don't see we actually we see the the older ladies like pupils and shit like that, but the other angels, I think actually we only really see her pupil actually when Spawn breaks in, but the images that they have of her prior to that, you can't see like her eyes are just white. They're literally just like the whites of her eyes. There's nothing else, which I think automatically, excuse me, makes her kind of seem a little creepy for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:43

We also get, I mean, an incredible uh big splash page on page eight, uh, which is like just him busting in through the window. Yeah, amazing. So much so much detail. So much detail, yeah. All the little shards of glass that are breaking, you know, it's it's his pose, crazy dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:04

Yeah. I think we talked about that maybe you and me bent, maybe even off the pod, but just like the the the dynamism of his poses. And actually Moon Knight had a bit of that too, right? It's like a lot of these kind of, you know, I'll c I'll call them Spider-Man-esque, but like, you know, these kind of like bent legs, like, you know, acrobatic poses.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:21

Well, again, I think in this specifically, some of that stuff that we think of as Spider-Man-esque is Todd McFarlane-esque, you know, because it's like I think that's part of what he brought to Spider-Man, which was kind of controversial at the time. Uh, this that's one of the things that that came up when I was trying to, you know, do some research for this episode was Marvel, I guess, kept giving pushback to him, being like, dude, this is weird. Like, we don't need you to make Spider-Man be all contorted. And he would go, okay, and he just draw him that way anyway, and it would sell gangbusters, you know, like people were really into it. So I think that's part of what we think of is like like the poses with Spider-Man's like leg up above his head, and all I think a lot of this is uh is um you know iconography from Todd McFarlane's style, individual style. Uh it's cool, it's cool how that impact that he had, um, you know, that we just even think of as as e Spider-Man, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

I mean, one of the most like iconic silhouettes I feel like of Spider-Man is are those like poses. Um so while this so actually this next part of this issue is something that I think we definitely need like so much more context for with this Calliostro or Cagliostro Caliostro guy um who is described as this mysterious vagrant who in some strange fashion knew what Spawn was going through. That's how they describe him. And this this is um an encounter that happened actually just after um Bobby was taken. Spawn ends up running to this guy, Cagliostro, who ends up basically saying, you know, I see you're still trying to learn, you might need this. Um and he gives him this thing. It's blank, but has information you still have so much to accept. Your friend needs you needs you control your rage that you may help him look again, and I guess Spawn maybe is learning to control something, but he sees the address um that he needs to go to. Um so there's obviously like a whole lot connected to this guy because he's there's nothing, at least in this issue, that like tells him that he's more than some dude that just knows about Spawn, but there's got to be some more um uh you know beyond that. I don't know if there's anything you know there's there, Isaiah, but yeah, it's it's wild. Just another mysterious character, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:30

I actually did. Do you want me to reveal it? I did uh I did this was something that got mentioned in my in my in my uh video I watched. Alright, what you got? Well, I mean supposedly, I mean I don't have any any information beyond this, but apparently it is just one of the one of the homeless guys that he found in the alley. But I guess he had previously been a hellspawn. Oh wow. He's so he knows uh that's he's sort of like he's like the mentor guy for Spawn. He's able to interest them with some knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:05

You know what that reminds me of? You guys watch Ghost Rider with uh Nicolas Cage. You know what that scene with the the old ghost rider he gets one last ride on the horse and he's like kind of his mentor before he goes off and faces um uh I forget whoever the villain is, but that's what that reminds me of.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:22

I saw that I saw that scene on on TikTok like sometime recently that came up. Yeah, it's the the actor with the mustache.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:29

Yeah, super deep voice, yeah, badass. That's so funny. I gotta go back and watch the movie. I haven't seen that movie in so long. That's fire. That movie is sick, man. I gotta go back and watch that. Maybe honestly, I might do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

Like where's our ghostwriter? Where's our modern day ghostwriter?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:47

These are real. All the all the like underworld badass characters are just being like shoved in a corner. I mean, you've got um oh, they're supposed to do a blade movie too. Where's that? What the fuck? Like, come on. Uh yeah, we gotta get it together and bring it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:03

Someone amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

That would have been amazing. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:06

So far. Wow, wow. Marvel Marvel's really been dropped. We talk about this. I feel like like every almost every podcast episode, we have like a random throwaway line where we're like, damn, the MCU really sucks now.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

Yeah, they're just yeah, they gotta they'll maybe they'll get it back together after they've now like I feel like either they or somebody else is probably cutting their staff and shit like that, whatever. We'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:28

That did just happen, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

Spawn Disney just like a bunch of people, yeah. So we'll see. But anyway, with this issue, we we also get another um we're back in this in this tower with Spawn, and we get another thing of him using his necroplasm, where basically threatens to attack this um older lady, takes her hostage and says, you know, um I mean what's funny is that Spawn is realizing that his cape is like becoming weak, and so he's like totally bluffing with his like big glowing green hand and claws um and says, you know, uh you're gonna help me solve my problem. The other lady that was kind of the main one who's taking over Earth stuff right now, she says, you know, if you hurt her, I'll bring all of heaven down on you. And so all that um Spawn is trying to do is get his friend. And then we get this next point here when we're back in the tower, Spawn is basically bluffing to try and get his friend back. We also end up seeing where his friend Bobby is. Um they end up basically saying, you know, he's about to use this necroplasm. Yeah, they have him in like this I don't even know how to describe it. It's like like matrix, but like worse almost like looking contraption. I don't know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:31

It does not look like a heavenly situation going on. Oh boy, at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:36

It looks almost like alien-esque, right? Right, yeah, yeah, it does. Um, naked, he's like they're doing experiments on him. They're they're like, oh, you know, experiments on that subject are incomplete at present, current data show, perplexing readings, unable to release subject at this time. And she ends up forcing the the people that are doing these experience experiments to release him. But I mean it definitely seems like they're they're probably doing something on him because he has the necroplasm shit. Like you're trying to exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:01

But I was thinking um they're probably trying to figure out how the necroplasm works to get an edge up because there's this hint of like this supposed heaven-hell war that might be happening. And I wonder if they're like trying to get the leg up by understanding how necroplasm works uh in general.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:17

Yeah, crazy. Um, so I mean, yeah, they just are not angels. I mean, they'd also just like look evil throughout like this whole thing. That's the other interesting thing. They're never really portrayed as like looking nice. That just doesn't happen uh in these issues so far. So um, and Bobby gets teleported to this area um where they're all fighting. He's like crying like on the ground, basically saying, Al, help me, right? Again, showing their connection. He's not like, you know, please help me just to this random guy. He's like Al, right? He's saying this guy's name. He's not even calling him Spawn or whatever the fuck else. He's calling him by his government name. Um and Spawn says, you know, release him, I'll go peacefully. Um they basically asked the Redeemer to kill Spawn. Uh, and oh, this is one of the moments where they actually reference, like, they're like, hey, take a look at the last issue. But um uh the costume ends up fighting back enough to beat the Redeemer. And there's I mean, there's some kind of crazy panels where I almost I will say there were some moments where I almost didn't even understand what I was looking at in some of these because basically Spawn is like shooting his like chains and all these things like up into the um up into the ceiling, basically uh piercing the Redeemer um up against the ceiling. And this is also the we are learned that the costume is acting on its own, right? So Spawn has felt that it's getting weaker, but then uh the costume I guess is reacting maybe to the Redeemer at whatever strength that it's at right now, um and says, you know, like some ferocious beast, the costume flails violently, it will allow nothing to come near. Then like the chains, the cave launched its own attack, like limbs and claws and teeth. The costume parts defend their host by whatever means necessary. Um and there's a bunch of crazy um I mean these panels all just look insane. Like and they're they're jumping on like that kind of horror aesthetic where everything's kind of like sharp and like uh you know specifically lit. I I love the um the color choices here, right? Shout out to all our color artists who are doing their thing. Um, but these like reds and oranges, um, he ends up slicing off the Redeemer's hand, um, which is wild too, so he can't kind of or he slices off his hand and then like the laser stuff that he shoots out of his hand, I feel like just keeps blasting. It's like the guy can't even can't even stop it from happening. But um crazy fight that ensues here, and I think again shows just the level of uh conflict that we're dealing with here. Um and then there's Granny in the background, right? And she seems to be chilling. I don't know, bro. She seems to be chilling. We'll see.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:32

Yeah, but it's pretty chaotic, and I think you're right too. I mean, it's a lot of really cool action. It also is uh it's good that we have this sort of narration telling us what's going on as well, because it it is kind of hectic. It's a little it's a little difficult to um it's not quite as as legible as it as it might be, you know. It's a little difficult to know exactly what's going on moment to moment, you know, like that we talk about the voice, Scotty.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:54

So Spawn is fighting through this. They end up calling all the security into this room, they're fighting past all this. Different shit. Um, and then this uh Bobby's like, I'll do something, hang on, Bobby, we're going to then basically he ends up using what we kind of described as this um necop necroplasm bomb. Um and yes, it's in a heartbeat, trillions of molecules disintegrate, transferred at the speed of light, they reassemble in the waste and decay of New York City Bowery, and we also get another one of the kind of those like clocks where again I don't understand 6902. I don't know what's up, what's down, I don't know, I don't know which one of these numbers means something. We'll have to look into that. He has less plasm. Uh yeah, so or so we know. But so he teleports um uh Spawn ends up teleporting uh Bobby back down. Uh the guy, Cogli, what's his name? Cogli Ostro is down there. Um they're saying, you know, he's hurt. Basically, the guy responds just says, you know, he's not heard he's just unconscious, don't worry. Our friend, our friend fared surprisingly well considering he just survived a battle with God. And he said, And then the guy says, What do you mean? Uh are you saying God was up there? And then this guy responds, The communion of sorts, the Lord can appear in many forms. Uh and then we jump back to up in the tower, and we end up hearing the old lady basically they're kind of all the women are kind of going back and forth. This old lady says, You know, girls, may please may I have a moment. This event has been no one's fault, as you are all aware, the security system is designed to do better or to to deter those who do not believe and those who are truly evil. Today the system worked perfectly, for our visitor was neither. My children, you are too quick to act. The intruder is more than you think. Much like yourselves, he struggles to find answers on his quest. He's faced with confusion. And from the conduct I witnessed today, I'd say so are you, proving to me that neither side is ready for the great battle. You see, though Al Simmons doesn't know it, I allowed him to do what he did because he was fighting not for himself, but for a friend. Yet make no mistake, the sparks have been struck, and one day, with time and guidance, his time will come, and he is destined to be the one. And then she floats out of the building, looking like it almost looks like a Jesus type something like floating out of this building or whatever else. But so we learn that this lady, this old lady, or whatever else that was in this thing, is supposedly God in this universe, which is crazy. So Spawn and the fact that she acknowledges that Spawn is not evil. Like officially, we're like Spawn is not evil because otherwise the security defensive would have gone after him immediately. So I don't know, bro. What what happens when you battle with God? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:13

It is cool to highlight that he was doing it for a friend as well, right? Like his motivations, defending the innocent, all that type of stuff, which it's very it's very interesting. It's cool how McFarland's making this part of the plot intrinsically, right? Where it's uh his powers may be evil, but he's doing for good.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:31

Yeah, it's cool, very cool. Yeah, 100%. I'm curious to see what God's true form actually is, though. Right. Can't just be this old lady, but that was definitely the twist of the story. Yeah, just to imagine just a fight scene with this old lady in Spawn's cape. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

I'd be down with that. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:48

She's got a kick-ass cane too.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:50

Yeah, exactly. I think it's also interesting. She says that he's destined to be the one, right? We don't we don't have enough context really to know like what kind of one that is. I mean, maybe it's the one that like decides this battle, maybe it's one that does, you know, something else, but he obviously is very important like cosmically to this whole thing, which is also, I mean, that's just like a different level, right? Like obviously we've had, I think, a bunch of uh, you know, obviously Marvel stories and wherever else that have gods and things like that, right? But this seems to be at least in some ways like rooted in the uh kind of modern version of God versus this kind of like pantheon of multiple gods and things like that, right? That we guess we see obviously with Thor and different things like that, right? But it's gonna be interesting to see what this battle is like and and where Spawn fits into uh all of this, because he does fit into all of it, which is pretty wild. Um so we'll jump into our last issue here, issue number 33. Um, back in the alley, Spawn considers um moving past this. His community kind of ends up pushing back, basically saying, like, you know, that he he wants to leave because he feels like he brings a lot of danger to them, which is probably true, but they say, you know, that they need him and they want him to stay. Um the quiet ends up being broken when one of the homeless men um reveals himself to be a plant sent by the violator who has been watching. Um he says Spawn's real name, which is Al Simmons, again, bringing up the government, which is crazy, um, which snaps Spawn awake. Spawn chases this man through the alleys to um this villain's location, the violator in the sewers. The violator delivers his message plainly, which is says, stay in the alley or his friends will pay. Um their fight carries them deeper into the sewers before a flood of water separates them, and then the issue ends in this kind of uh the middle of this standoff, which is which is crazy. So um we're getting this intro to this crazy villain. It's funny. Uh Ben and I were talking about this a while ago, uh, where this guy kind of looks this we we play League of Legends, so this guy kind of looks like this specific character, Chogath, which is kind of funny. I wonder if they took like any inspiration from the from the violator, but um, but so anyway, this issue um is the beginning of this crazy new conflict. We get uh the beginning of this with this guy who is kind of doing it looks like almost like a voodoo doll type thing. Um, this new villain that's being introduced, uh, and yeah, this guy says, I'll be watching from the shadows, just waiting for the right moment. We have the narrator say a fiendish cackle reverberates through the reeking subterranean maze. Eventually the sick laughter dies, and then um we go back to this debate where all of these uh guys, all of Spawn's friends are talking about um whether or not it makes sense for him to leave because Spawn's saying like a whole bunch of uh you know shit is coming to you guys. I found another place I can go, it'd be safer for all of us. Bobby says, Look, you want to run out on us again, fine, that's your call, but don't try to pin any of us, any of this on us. We're not as fragile as you think, right? Which I think is another kind of cool, you know, from the perspective of these of these homeless guys. They say, you know, you see, Al, this trouble didn't start with you. What we go through, uh here he goes, what we go through has been this way for a long time. The psychos, crime, and violence, none of that's going to change. We'll still get beat up, shot at, mugged by the bad guys. Hell, even the good guys pick on us. So forget the nursemaid crap, we'll survive, we always have, right? Which again, such a cool stand-up moment for for that community in this in this piece here. But uh Swan goes on to say, like, yeah, but like I'm compounding on these problems, and there's a bunch of freaks, there's cops, monsters, hitmen, you name it, every weirdo possible was trashing your home. That's not fair to any of you. Again, great thing where it's like, bro, even if you're living in the fucking alley, it's not fair that somebody's fucking up your shit, doing whatever else. Um, and long story short, this goes on to um basically end up with him sticking around, uh, Spawn sticking around, and uh, you know, deciding that they're gonna stay. But so we get this this little rat guy. I feel like that's the only way I can describe it, but this little rat guy pulling up and saying uh Spawn's government named him, he says Al Simmons, and Spawn freaks out, right? We learn this little backstory. We says some you know, some time ago, too many people knew far too much about him. They had uh knowledge that kept him trapped with enough leftover to eventually cost him his life. Now, given a second chance, Al is ensured that those around him uh know only what he wants them to know. He's revealed just general information. One fact, especially, has become sacred, protected at all costs, his identity. No one would have any way of knowing it. Um which is again crazy. First off, again, that this guy knows it and that they're saying it at him, but it goes back to all of those homeless people that know him and that are his boys, they all call him out. So he has determined that they all deserve his trust and respect and whatever else, which is a big thing. Um this little rat guy, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:11

Like one of the concepts from an art perspective, right, that I think is is interesting. Uh, that's been true across all these issues, is uh like the different characters will sometimes be depicted differently, like panel to panel, and sort of like the realism of them will switch up. Like sometimes it'll be like a a wider shot. Well, they'll they'll look more uh you know, more uh quote unquote normal. I don't know, but then we'll get these weird, like zoomed-in shots where they'll look really cartoonish or freak it, have so much details, and um, and like Antonio calling calling this guy like the little rat guy that is real, you know, we'll get these shots like this this well, this really close-up of him, and his teeth look crazy and his eyes are all bugging out and stuff. Um and it is cool that he did, you know, he does the same thing with with all sorts of different characters, and I think that's actually one of the one of the cool things, like him giving himself that kind of freedom and flexibility where he's not just pinning down like I gotta make sure the proportions of all the characters are exactly the same across the whole issue. Like he just sort of has a creative freedom where like whatever the story needs or whatever he thinks is gonna like look best at that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:18

Um there's a flexibility with how the different people are are are depicted. Yeah, and we get some crazy stuff in this where the way that like Spawn is like yelling at this dude, and then the cape ends up just like enveloping like the both of them. We see like the eyes of this little like rat dude uh in the darkness of like the cape that is just entirely like you can't even see Spawn. He's like everything is enveloped by this, and then he kind of like breaks everything up and then says, you know, go tell your tell your stranger he knows where he can find me. And we get this little narrator thing where Spawn releases his prey, knowing it will scurry to his master, and then we get these cool shots. I feel like these are almost like again Spider-Man-esque shots of him going through this. But he says, and when it does, Spawn will be waiting for tonight. The shadows will live. Um, and we get an acrobatic poses. I don't know what's up with all the bats. I didn't know Spawn was like that with the bats, but he's got some more bats behind him. It's probably it fits really well with the way that the cape kind of looks with this, because it is kind of like those type of wings. Um but so uh this guy, little rat guy, ends up running back. Um uh asking the the big guy who's actually out of the sewer now, is like, hey, did he take the bait? Um and he's like, hopefully he's falling like you wanted, what's next? And then we get this uh uh narrator say, you know, a rapid, grotesque transformation happens. Uh then the uh whatever these guys call it, what is it, violator kind of ends up I want to say spawn, but I can't say that. But so he ends up being created or like coming out of his whatever, and he says, I'll take it from here, thank you. You served my purpose. And he definitely has just like torn, he like just smashes his arm through this guy's this little rat guy's chest and takes his heart out, it looks like. Um and then funny that the next little narrating thing says, A heartbeat later, the sky is blanketed in red. Um, and we see again this crazy cool shot of spawn falling. The cape, the cape, man, it's everywhere. We get um not only is it big in this first shot, but the kind of background shot to this page, the cape is like taking over everything. It's like the entire background of spawn, his entire back is just the cape, and then like ten feet behind that is still the cape. Um, so he ends up going down to the sewer. Um he actually doesn't even go down the sewer. This guy like reaches up and grabs his like shoe. And actually, funny enough, to just talk about Spawn's like feet for a second, he kind of has these like kind of like almost oversized, I feel like feet that are like wrapped in these spikes and whatever else that kind of look like funny to me whenever I see them.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:37

But yeah, I was sorry. I was gonna say on page 15, talking about uh like what Ben noted with the proportions in the previous page on I think page 14, you can see his proportions are more normal with the spikes wraps that he has on his wrists and his calves. But then on that page 15, um, one of them is just super big and like engulfs his foot, and the other one uh is super like skinny and more adhere to his calf. And then again, it happens um when his foot is being taken on page 17 from the violators, just this ginormous, like I don't even know what you would call it. I guess just like an extra foot almost.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:14

Like that's almost what it looks like. And that's a very interesting point. Yeah, even in that one where it's like he's doing his acrobatic shit through the air, it does like they look different. Um uh yeah, just even and they're not they're not like farther away or whatever else, but like, and I wonder if I mean, is that like his right foot in particular that I mean one of his feet?

SPEAKER_03 1:39:32

It makes perfect sense, especially for sp for when it's happening with Spawn because of the the suit being a symbiote or like a living thing, right? Like it's always changing. Yeah, it's like being all um crazy. But it is cool. I mean, he might have just been like, ooh, look, like we've got this his foot is in front of the moon, and I'm gonna make I'm just gonna make this leg like a big old foot.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:56

Yeah, yeah. Fire. But so we spawn gets basically yanked down uh into the into the sewers, and we get this crazy creature that says, uh, your existence has become a farce. You've learned nothing about what you are. It's an honor to be chosen as Hell Spawn. Do you understand an honor? Um, and he says, you know, you get Spawn says, You get something straight, hell picked me, not the other way around, so I don't give a damn about what you think. Um, and this guy just this this uh violator just keeps kind of yelling at him saying that you know you're a fool. You see, I hear you thinking about skipping town again. Well, don't think that's a good decision because we wouldn't want you to have your servant bones looking like our slaughtered friend upstairs, now would we? Because you don't have a choice, so you better care. Oh, he says, you know, you don't care, you don't have a choice, so you better care what I think. Um so I mean it's interesting that it's it's almost like the backstory of like just like why he can't leave New York or like why he can't like go wherever else is that this uh this thing is sitting in the sewers uh waiting to tear up all the people that he cares about.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:51

Also, how amazing are this guy's speech bubbles? Yeah, they're like melting, melting, gooey, like mucusy, slimy. It's so cool. Like they look like they're dripping down. I don't know. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:06

That is that is awesome. It kind of gives you know each character its own personality. Uh and then just so for you guys' context, the violator he was sent by that male Malibu Gia. Oh, gotcha. Uh to to watch and and spy on Spawn, kind of keep him, keep tabs on him. Um, but he's like some demon entity, and and obviously he kind of goes on about how jealous he is that he was chosen to be hell spawn. I think that that kind of uh in later issues drives into their rivalry or or you know, him being kind of that um one of his biggest antagonists of his story.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:40

Yeah, that's interesting. And I mean there's this great uh again, like kind of almost splash panel type thing. It has a little bit of dialogue, but you know, this is where the violet is saying, you know, because one day I'll come to obliterate you. That'll prove once and for all that none are as worthy of the spawn title as Hell's true citizens, right? Yeah, so exactly what you were saying, Isaiah. Um, yeah, again, crazy art, Cape's taking over the whole thing, fighting against this creature that like is a very weird build. I can't always a hundred percent tell where the feet and the arms are at, but but the one of the arms is stretching out, so that's what I know in this image.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:11

But it is a weird build in a cool way, sort of like bent over, weirdly contorted. Um it's awesome, it's very cool. It's very cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:22

He's like in he's has like these spindly insect limbs. Right, it's kind of like insectish. His eyes are kind of like that too. Um pretty wild. But so what's kind of I'm trying to see if I can even find like exactly how this happens. I think it's like through their kind of battle that they end up both breaking this like water main, um, and they get both like swept away into this um crazy sewage uh uh I was gonna say like waterfall, but like rapids of um shit going on there. And um we also get this kind of like moment where the violators bringing up Spawn's past and just like how he was a murderer and all these things like that. I mean he was an assassin, right? But so it goes on to say you know, Spawn knows it's true as a government-sponsored assassin, he regularly invented new ways to dismember, he became an expert at snuffing, snuffing lives out. Um it's that trait combined with anger which feeds his costume, a costume meshed with his flesh in symbiosis, creating an entity which he tries not to think about a killer, basic and total, right? So it's interesting again how they describe Spawn versus like in different moments, right? Because we get him like being this like again, he's got his good friends, but he's also just like his plain and simple killer. Um and yeah, it's interesting that Violator really is just like angry about this. You know, the uniform, how do you train it to morph into this soon? It still should be incubating. Tell me who's helping you, right? It's this again, jealousy, exactly like you said, Isaiah, which is which is really interesting. And so it's kind of funny that that's like the crux of their like beef is that this guy's just like, Man, I should be wearing that tight ass costume. That should be me right now. Uh, I don't think it would fit him, but that's a different, uh, a different story. Um, I'd like to see how he would look in that costume. Yeah, agreed, agreed. Um, but so they get washed away by all this um sewage and says, you know, like another piece of garbage in the deluge, the hero is slammed from side to side. Survival's his only priority. He learns that his body now decomposed of necro or composed of necroplasm still needs oxygen. Uh, and worse, the violer has vanished. Spawn expects though, at some point, or uh though, that he's somewhere in these sewers unharmed, and that he's at the mercy of that creature's next move. And so that is what ends our final issue here. We also get a timer. We got the 6, 8, 8, 7, no zeros, no ones. He's he's buffed up. He's got his cape enveloping him in a bunch of different ways. But so crazy, uh, I think interesting start to a new story, but end to where we're leaving off today. Um, I think this issue was super fun again, getting into this new arc. But overall, Spawn, what are what are we thinking? Um, Isaiah, I'll jump to you. As the guest, we'll jump to you first. You brought this to us. How did you like these issues? Kind of reading them again. What was it like to revisit Spawn for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:55

Dope. Like, just kind of honestly, it was really fresh and exciting to see this. I mean, somewhat claustrophobic, but really detailed art style. Um, and we do, you know, that's typically typically what we kept bringing up is the way they did the the speech bubbles, the way um they're able to showcase the intricacies of his cape, and and kind of you can feel that the cape is becoming more powerful and more together with each issue. And then just so much like there's just so many layers, like from an artistic standpoint, but also from a story standpoint. Like there's so many things to unravel, and it does want you to, it does want me to read more and understand um, you know, what's gonna happen next, because Jesus, like there's sub plot points, there's mini-series, there's uh this, there's that, and right there's a lot to uncover here, but just being able to be introduced again into Spawn's world um was exciting for me. Um, I love seeing, you know, kind of that Batman-esque, just dark underworld version of New York, and and even getting deeper into like the sewers and the underground and and diving into the homeless community. Um yeah, it's super exciting, and I feel like it kind of mixes just a bunch of different things that personally I like within a story as far as like uh the horror elements go and and just separating itself from the rest of the pack when it comes to a comic book storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:19

Yeah, definitely. What about you, Ben? What'd you what'd you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:46:22

Yeah, I I thought it was awesome. Really cool. It definitely uh made me uh want to go and and read some more spawn, uh go back and read some earlier issues too, maybe to try to fill in some of the blanks. Um it's uh yeah, man. Thanks for thanks for suggesting we we check this for. Um I thought the the art is just such a highlight. Uh I think it's interesting with the book too, like so many of the things that you could maybe uh like some of the things that could be criticisms of the storytelling or the art are also things that make it really unique and dope, you know? Like it's yeah, it's just sort of uh excuse me, it's just sort of its own like chaotic entity. Um and really prioritizing just like vibes and pose, you know, um atmosphere. I also it's very cool how unique the like it feels very 90s in uh in in such a cool way, like it makes me think about um like juggalos, like insane clown posters. You know, a lot of horror, horror, like when you go to like horror parks around Halloween time and all those just crazy clown demon characters, you know, it's a lot of um hodgepodge of horror elements that you just don't normally think of being associated with superhero storytelling like this. Um it's just feels super unique, really cool. Uh I get why you know it's still a ongoing like you know, longest ever ongoing indie comic or whatever. It's deservedly so, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:00

And speaking of uh Insane Clown Posse, I I want to, I feel like I have to highlight it because uh in the next issue, issue 34, you can see what the violator uh sort of transforms into his so-called human form, and that's kind of like just this weird, distorted, creepy clown. Whoa. Yeah, it's so great.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:18

Do you see this one, Ben? The next one. Yeah, I did it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:22

Yeah, it's going through someone's face like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:25

That's yeah, and that's um that's the violator I know. Uh obviously he has his demon form, but uh from the spawn movie um that we talked about in the beginning, that's uh kind of the form that he's generally in throughout the movie. He kind of has this like Danny DeVito-esque, like penguin kind of humor to him, but like that darky edginess, but also kind of quirky and comical. Um anyway, so that's kind of like that's one of my favorite characters. So I just had to highlight that really quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:49

No, that's super that's so funny that it really did just come around to the clown almost looking aesthetic.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:54

That's super that is I've seen that guy. I guess I had I'd forgotten or hadn't realized that those uh were the same character, the Chogath guy and the we call him Chogath, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:04

Chogath looks a little more thicker, he's a little juicier, but yeah, they're brothers, they're cousins or some shit like that for sure. For sure. But yeah, so Spawn, this was super crazy. I think that yeah, I think that this was an interesting one where um the art, I think, in particular, was like a standout to me. I think that the writing was cool. I think it would be really interesting to read that um that run that Alan Moore wrote and kind of compare the writing styles and see how that looks. Um, we also know that some of the the writing in the artist has has you know shifts as Spawn goes on. But I thought these were really interesting issues to go through. I think that we had a really nice contained story in the beginning that I think gave us um another side to similar, but another side to spawn of like who it is that he protects and who it is that he fights for. Um I think also just acknowledging like for real his blackness in this situation, I think is super sick too. Um and then uh yeah, overall I think this was just like super fun. I think that um the aesthetics, like we talked about, really kind of. Stole the show for everything that we had going on here. So I, you know, funny enough, like I said, I've I've already started reading some of the other issues. I went back and already read issue number one, um, and we'll probably read a couple more as well as we keep going. But this was super cool. I think it was super fun. This is also our first like Zoom uh podcast. So thanks, Isaiah, for all. Yeah, shout out shout out to Zoom. We're expecting the Zoom sponsorship coming in any day now for sure. Um but but thank you for joining us. This was a crazy one. And I don't know what I we're reading Thor next, right? That's what we're reading, Ben. I think that we're reading Thor next.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:32

But um But yeah, I mean, Isaiah, we gotta have you back whenever, man. We could read some more spawn together or or read some other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:39

Um yeah, we were talking we were just talking about that actually before you joined this uh this Zoom, funny enough. So we'll make it happen for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:44

Bro, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:46

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:47

Really appreciate the opportunity. Um love what you guys are doing, and I'm happy to support wherever wherever story you need me to go, whatever comic book you want me to read. Uh and we can chop it up after to discuss another opportunity, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:01

Yeah, sounds good. All right, gang. Thanks so much for listening. This has been Kickback Comics. Find us at Kickback Comics Pod on all of the socials. Check us out on Instagram. Um, and thanks for listening. We'll be back later on. Peace. Peace, everybody. Peace.