"Silver Surfer: Black" by Donny Cates Issues 1-5 (Ep.20)

Episode 20 is here! Ben and Antonio dive into Silver Surfer: Black by Donny Cates, breaking down issues 1–5. This week we explore a surreal journey through the darkness at the beginning of the universe.

Be part of the discussion on Instagram: @KickbackComics_Pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hey there everybody, how's it going? Welcome back to another episode of Kickback Comics. My name is Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

My name is Ben, and y'all are listening to a comic book podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

By two guys who have not read a lot of comics but are looking to get involved, read some cool stories, surfboard through the cosmos, understand our deeds and misdeeds, and maybe even experience some redemption, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Yep. We're surfing through space. That's what we're doing. We're reading comics. We're doing a book club. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you guys so much. We've got a great conversation ahead of us here. We read Silver Surfer Black. What a banger. Yeah. Another uh we're really we're on it, not only are I we're on a chain of great books and also sort of um on a chain of them being interconnected, which is part of what's fun about comics in the first place. But uh we're sort of freshly experiencing that, like having having villains and characters even on the same timeline be crossing over. So that's sort of like one of the exciting components going on here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, I think that this is super exciting. I mean, you know, we'll get into this whenever else too, but we have some some characters, like you said, that we've seen before, and we'll talk about it too. But I love the very comic comicness of seeing characters being uh drawn uh and colored and whatever else differently across these comics. But anyway, we're gonna get into Silver Surfer Black banger.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Also, uh, real quick, if you haven't yet, go give us a follow on Instagram at kickbagcomics underscore pod. Uh we every every other week when we post the episode, we post some uh of the iconic panels and pages that we're talking about in the podcast. So if you want to check those out, if you haven't had an opportunity to pick up or read the book, you can go check them out on Instagram and be part of the conversation there. And also, uh, you know, give us a like, give us a follow on whatever podcast platform you are listening on. We really appreciate that. Give us a review, uh, send it to a friend. Anything you guys feel like you can easily do to support us and get the pod out, we would we would appreciate it. We would really appreciate it. Love you. Thanks very much. All right, let's jump into the dossier. Let's get it going. The dossier.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Which is actually funny. We've uh in Google Docs with our our document tabs, we've run out, we've hit a hundred tabs.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

That's right. We're really tabbing it up. We're putting in that work, you know what I'm saying? So it's about to be uh about to be dossier, our second dossier. Dossier two. Dossier two electric boogaloo. Um all right, get us into this Silver Surfer Black, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, so this trade paperback collects Silver Surfer Black from 2019, issues one through five. Uh it's a Marvel miniseries written by Donnie Cates with art by Trad Moore and colors by Dave Stewart and lettering by Clayton Cowells. It has a beginning, a middle, and end, which is sort of rare in comic book world. Obviously, this is a chapter within the larger tapestry of the main Marvel canon, uh, which is kind of kind of cool that we're dipping our toes into that more and more these days. Um, but despite it being a piece of the larger puzzle, there's, you know, these five issues sort of tell their own contained story, which is very satisfying for us in this book club as we're jumping around and reading and trying out all these little uh little comic snippets.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah. Is and wait, so this I I didn't even think about this at first. But so the one through five, that's it of this run, or is are there more? Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

No, well, I think I think it I think there's more, but it's not uh I think But it's contained. Yeah, I think Donnie Cates uh keeps writing it, but it's a different artist.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Ah, very interesting, very, very interesting. Yeah, but this was um yeah, this was great. Um we'll give some just like quick Silver Surfer general context for those who did not know, uh, like myself. I did not know who his uh original name. But Silver Surfer is Norrin Rad, um a former herald of Galactus who travels the cosmos using the power cosmic. Um and there are a lot of um philosophical themes. I think that that's kind of one of the big takeaways from this um this uh you know, a couple of issues here. Um one of the big things, right, is this uh kind of in contrast to a lot of the stuff that we talked about releasing recently, not um Venom, for example, which we'll talk about as well, also written by Donnie Cates. Um, but this is very much a cosmic uh you know universal thing, not so much like the street crime type of thing that we've seen in like Moon Knight and wherever else. So this is uh we're going we're going intergalactic in this one as well. That's that's very true. We're in outer space the whole time. Yeah. I don't think we're on Earth at all. No, we're on some planets, but definitely not definitely not Earth planets. We're on some planets.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

We're on some we're on some conscious planets too. So some planets uh that are awakened in certain ways, which we'll obviously talk about. Uh let's see, some more Silver Surfer context. Silver Surfer was created by, again, Jack Kirby and Stan Lee showed up the GOATs. Yep. Uh first debuted in Fantastic Four number 48 in 1966, uh part of Marvel's famous Galactus trilogy, which I guess is Fantastic Four forty-eight through fifty. And it introduced Silver Surfer, Galactus, and all of the big cosmic side of Marvel storytelling. Um, and it sounds like uh from what from what we researched, Jack Kirby was actually the one who sort of came up with him initially uh without even discussing it with Stan. So, you know, Galactus is this huge entity that sort of goes planet to planet and uh destroys them, he absorbs them. So he's sort of like a the embodiment of a black hole or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Ah, that's an interesting I that's a good point. I never thought of it like that, but that does make a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah. And uh the Silver Surfer's role is basically the herald of Galactus. He pulls up ahead of time and is like, hey everybody, hello, nice to meet you. Your whole world is gonna be consumed very soon. So letting you know. Prepare yourselves, make peace before you all die. Make peace. It's a pretty tough job. That's a tough gig. Yeah, it's gonna weigh on you for sure. And a lot of that is examined. That's like actually a big part of this book is him really grappling with the re like he's not an evil guy. He's just like, Man, my job is for thousands of years to just pull up to a planet, say what up, and then watch the whole planet die.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, absolutely crazy. I mean, he I can't remember because I feel like I I almost got two things from this. Did his planet get consumed? It did, right? Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

His his planet got consumed. Um, another thing that's interesting is his which uh again, as we say, we'll get into later as it comes up in the story, but his wife or lover, partner, whatever, um, she also is a silver surfer. She's like a she becomes a there's like a girl Silver Surfer sometimes. I see. So that's why there is a so example in the most recent Fantastic Four movie, Silver Surfer is a woman.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

I see.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And I think part of that is because they are on an alternate timeline. The silver, the not the silver the Fantastic Four movie that just came out with um Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards and whatever is not in the same universe as the main Marvel continuity. They have to like jump over into our continuity. They're on an alternate earth than the one that Iron Man and everybody is in.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Very interesting. I did not watch that movie, so that adds a lot of context there. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, it's fine, it's mid, as you know. I heard it's a solid mid, um, which is crazy. But uh yeah, in that in that movie, Silver Surfer is a woman, and it is the uh that that wife that we see. Gotcha, gotcha, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I have her her name written down in here somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

But um But this was actually this was the first this is um this was the first Silver Surfer thing that I've interfaced with I've ever read. This is the second time, second time reading it. I did read this uh when I was first first getting into comics uh in New York in that just uh tail end of COVID era that I've touched on before in you know some of our episodes. But I was really excited to uh revisit this and and read it with you and and get to talk about it because it is um the art is probably some of the most distinctive and unique art that we've looked at, period, hands in hand.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, it's it's crazy. I mean it's it's like taking that um that kind of like crazy issue from Moon Knight and then like putting that on like steroids and then putting it in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Right. Very 70s, very psychedelic imagery. Uh in and not in the sort of like cheesy way that people say where it's like, oh, this looks hip like. It's truly everything is like organic and uh it feels like everything is like the structures of cells and things are like stretching and it's like it's like seeing like time.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I think that's actually the really interesting thing of making this kind of like universal and cosmic and like these really strong um beings, right? Is that like we're seeing like the time and space like pull and stretch, and like I feel like that's kind of the interesting maybe, maybe, I mean who knows? Maybe that's what they were trying to achieve with some of the way that they did this art. Um, but really, really incredible. This is I don't know, man. I I keep on recommending all these things because we've just been very lucky with picking out some really uh really really good ones. But this is another one. If you're an artist, especially, go check this out. It's super cool, super distinct, crazy colors, crazy art in general. Check it out for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

This is another one of those books that we read on comicsology. Shout out comicsology.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Thanks for the sponsorship in the future, just letting you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

But uh this is definitely one of those where I gotta get a physical copy of this at some point. I was thinking, you know, I was thinking that same thing. Literally before I left, I was like, damn, it's crazy that I don't have a physical copy of this one. So we're gonna make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

We'll be on be on the lookout. Um you know what? That's actually something we could do today too. If we want to go, we could pop over to North Hollywood and check out that uh comic book shop we found. I just I'm I've been trying to find like a local home-based comic book shop for for the kickback comics crew over here and uh trying to support. Obviously, you know, I'm not a Barnes and Nobles hater. We're in a world of of Amazon and online shopping and everything where supporting your local Barnes and Noble like is a thing, which is insane. But uh even more than that, you know, I would rather find an independent comic book shop for us to be buying this shit from. So let's do it. Yeah. That sounds sick. Um, but yeah, so let's I mean, closing up our our overall thoughts and everything here. Do we is there any other overarching stuff?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

I mean, I think we Yeah, we covered I think all the themes. I think the only thing maybe to go through now is just like the creative team. Um and you know, this is so we've talked about Donnie Cates before. We've read a couple of things. Um, if you've been listening for a little bit, um God Country, um, Venom, which we did just recently. Um and there are a couple other there's a couple great ones on here, but those are the ones that we read recently. Um, really, really great writer. I've enjoyed a lot, a lot of the stuff that we've read of Donnie Cates. I think that this is um, you know, I I uh I've loved a lot of the stuff that we read. I think that really the combination of the art and um the writing here, uh I don't know, I I really did enjoy um his writing in this. And there are there are these moments, and I think that he does pull from we talked about this before, there's some quotes that he I think he pulled from Stan Lee's original writing. Um, but overall I think that this is this is a really, really great work from him. But so Donnie Cates um doing all this kind of caustic scale horror elements, mythology stuff that we've seen um here and in Venom. Um then we've got uh Trad Moore, who's the artist. Um, and again, this is like insanely distinctive artwork, exaggerated movement, elastic anatomy, which is what we talked about, psychedelic imagery, we talked about that as well. Um surreal page layouts, too.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

That's one of the notes here, and and something we'll definitely need to make sure we talk about where this is departing really far from the traditional sort of three by three or or what have you, yeah, traditional comic grid sort of layout. There's in there's some pages where there's no panels at all. The story is just kind of flowing through the art organically. Um, there's other ones where there'll be panels that are at in like a three-dimensional skew, and you can see the Silver Surfer like flying through the panels as time is passing. And um just yeah, really incredible sort of mind-bending uh very mind-bending layouts. Like not only is the the imagery and the art presented in sort of a really creative psychedelic fashion, but just the the way the story is told through the comic medium is also very creative and interesting and engaging.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Absolutely, absolutely. Um moving on to our our next uh member of this team here, Dave Stewart, who's doing all the color and this. Um he's one of the most acclaimed uh color artists in modern comics, has won a bunch of Eisner awards. Um he's done stuff like Hellboy, Black Hammer, the Umbrella Academy, Batman. Um Ben was talking about Hellboy earlier. We're definitely gonna come back to that.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Hellboy, I think, is my favorite. My f like the art and the color in Hellboy is just incredible. Like Hellboy is very cool. Obviously like I would knew about him from the movies and stuff when I was a kid. Like, I feel like a lot of us have a vague idea of what Hellboy is about, but then actually getting into the comics, it's so much more profound and beautiful and haunting than I think the movies or or you know, whatever random media t-shirts you might have seen him on would really convey. And the color is such a big, a big part of that. Um, so I'm really excited when we get there. And yeah, I mean, Black Hammer, also amazing colors. I've read some of that as well. Um, so yeah, I mean, Dave, Dave Stewart, one of the top of my list for color artists I've uh you know, I've read so far.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah, crazy. Um, Clayton Cowells is a letterer for this one. Um, it's kind of crazy. We're I'm reading through like all of these, and every single one of these people they're like, they're this person is one of the Marvel's most prominent, you know, whatever it is that they're doing. It's like writer, you know, author. Like, so anyway, but this is an A-Team. This is A-Team, yeah. So Clayton Cowell's major work includes Immortal Hulk, Daredevil, Thor, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange. These are obviously all like big um main characters, um, barring maybe Daredevil slightly, but obviously Daredevil's big too. Um, but really great lettering. I mean, this is this is a really amazing um coordination of people. I think that that's like probably one of the most fascinating things about uh comics, kind of in general to me, right? Because there's so many things like I mean, this happens with music, whenever else too. I think that Ben and I make music, as as some of you guys probably know. And I think when I'm making music a lot of the times, there is a you know, obviously a collaborative aspect, but with the tools that we have nowadays, it's it's something that you can do um personally, right? But I think that this is such an amazing example of four people, obviously there's a bigger team in general, but four people um coming together and really like perfectly bouncing off of each other, right? Where it's like nothing feels like out of place here. It's like four people put their heads together and it actually became this really cohesive, um incredible piece of work um that we'll go through today. But so great team, a lot of accomplished people. Um, and uh yeah, we're gonna get into it. Here we are. All right, here we go. Diving into the issue summaries, we're gonna start with obviously number one here. Um I'll give us a little summary and then we'll get into it. So during a battle in Guardians of the Galaxy, which is another kind of branch off of this, where we're coming into this from Guardians of the Galaxy, um, Silver Surfer is pulled into a black hole and thrown into the distant past of the universe. He's stranded billions of years before his own time. He discovers Null, if you remember from our Venom stuff. If you haven't, go check that one out. Um already exists in this primordial darkness and is far stronger than expected. Um the surfer ends up attacking him immediately, but is overwhelmed and left drifting through space. His silver form begins to darken. Um he's kind of like being corrupted. Um, and then the issue establishes the story's central conflict, the surfers fighting to preserve hope and light against an ancient force of darkness, which is null. Uh, pretty crazy stakes from the beginning. Um, what did you think of this one, Ben?

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yeah, amazing. I mean, the art, what once you just turn the first page, the art hits you like a like a sledgehammer.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

You're like, whoa, you're like, what am I looking at?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Right. It's so I think the you sort of get used to the art as you go. Like it's so stylized. I don't want to say it's like it to me, it's not off-putting at all, but I can understand how it's a little shock. Like you're like, oh, I don't know, I feel about this. Everything's kind of goopy, everything's kind of organic, um, which take it takes a second to get used to. But I think obviously just like from this pages uh two and three, yeah, you get just amazing panel layout, use of color, all these red panels seeing seeing Galactus like destroying all these worlds, inhaling them basically, these crazy long uh rectangular panels underneath those two pages of the of the surfer flying through outer space. Um it's just very, very striking imagery right off rip. And then seeing him flying out through these these like ribbons of time and space, uh, with these um it honestly looks like there's sometimes multimedia like actual pictures of space or something going on in the back.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

You're probably right, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Um but yeah, I mean the experience of of these first few pages is just is very visually striking immediately. Uh, and you see all these other crazy Marvel characters, like this is beta ray Bill, Antonio.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah, we know, which I had not really I think we maybe touched on, but I did not obviously know like crazy. Right. He's a a Thor, he's like another uh weird Thor type character. Yeah, it made me think of that with the hammer, you know, he's got his like it's kind of like the OG Thor kind of costume that this guy's got going on. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Um the writing also very cool. Let's see. Um my name is Norrin Rad, Orphan Son of Zen Law, though I have been known by many names. To some I am a noble light in the great unending darkness, a defender of the helpless, avenger to those who are lost. I am a friend, an ally, a lover, to some a savior. I am known by many universe wide as the Silver Surfer, the Sentinel of the Spaceways, the Herald of Galactus Unchained, but alas, I am known by another secret name, a name spoken briefly, whispered or raging on the dying lips of the forgotten. That name is death. Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Pretty uh, you know, we're getting spooky from the from the rip for sure. And I mean, you know, I think that one of the things that gives this uh the weight that it does, right, is is understanding Galactus, right? Uh, you know, the Silver Surfer kind of goes on to talk about this, um, and we get this first philosophical thought process that he's having where he talks about saying, you know, for too long I I sat in silence as the devourer, sat in silence as the devourer brought oblivion to creation. Basically, Galactus is going around consuming uh planets and and worlds. And uh the Silver Surfer is supposed to be the one uh kind of as as Ben was saying before that just rolls up and is like, hey guys, uh it's about to wrap up, so do whatever you guys gotta do. Um, you know, say goodbye to whoever else because it's about to wrap up. And uh the Silver Surfer kind of is is grappling with the fact that um these these people uh and and these universe or not even universes but planets and things like that that they've been going around destroying, um he feels like they're you know not deserving of the of his cold stare of the stone in action. Um and he feels uh horrified to a certain extent of the things that uh he's seeing, but at the very least so far has not had the opportunity or um agency, the agency, the wherewithal to to do something about that. Um but it is it is weighing on him heavily, and I think that we almost even see him like crying um in the beginning of this, which is crazy. But so the herald of Galactus is um is having some personal issues, which is interesting, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

The let's see, so narratively speaking, we we see him along with a whole ton of of characters from that uh in the uh whatever's going on in the Guardians of the Galaxy comic at the time, uh they all are getting ripped out of this black hole, and basically Silver Surfer does everything he can, all of his cosmic power to get them out of there, and then he goes drifting off through space-time by himself, drifting off into the void, uh, which I think he's drifting for years, and then as we said, pops out um way, way, way in the past, millions, I don't know how long. Probably millions, billions. Crazy long time in the ancient past. And he has this really cool uh showdown with these three like guardians of the sentinels of the yeah, and they they really remind me of um of art I've seen from like Elden Ring or something. Do you know that?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

It does kind of give that type of vibe. It's like it's like a little bit, I think, probably like more colorful maybe than like the Elden Ring stuff. But I I totally get what you're saying. It's like these kind of like um I don't even know what word. I mean, it's kind of like silly goofy in a way, but it's it's it's really, as we've talked about, like stylized and interesting. But I I totally agree with you there, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

But basically there's there's this gate, he has the showdown conflict with them. Uh he uses some of his power cosmic in this absolutely incredible panel uh where he just blasts all of them with this light, and that's one of the things that we see. It's the first time we see his silver exterior getting uh changed to black. Yes. Where basically when he when he exerts too much of the the power cosmic, uh which basically he's creating a star, started star. Which is insane. Uh, but yeah, so he's manifesting stars and his hand, uh the sort of sort of the the price, the the law of equivalent exchange, as they would say, in full metal alchemist, uh his hand is blackened. And the way that they're depicting that is absolutely beautiful. Basically, it's kind of like you know, when you pour gasoline on the ground, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And you see the any oil, whatever else mixed with water and the light refracting off of it. You're so right.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

So the way the artist is depicting this is they're sort of doing these amazing uh col collages of color in the negative space. So, like the the there's the black hand, and then in those highlights of the hand is sort of like a gateway into this beautiful. Beautiful morphing color, and that's a technique they use throughout the book to just really, really remarkable effect, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah, absolutely. What's interesting, I didn't even realize the fact that this planet is like totally kind of like not like deep darkness, but it's like gray and cloaked in like when he gets there. And this, I mean, he's literally like creating a sun for this planet, right? Is it you know talks about um yeah, the infant star I birthed into being from my power cosmic floats into the heavens to bring light back to this world. Um, and then he says, from darkness light with light a price, and that's when he starts seeing uh you know that uh oil gasoline mixture thing start showing up on his hand, which is pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Um but so basically he's def he's defeated these three sentinels, and the gate be that they were guarding opens and he gets yanked in there by somebody who recognizes him, who knows him.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

That was the thing where I was like, Whoa, what's going on? Because it says the the the creature says, Hello, little son, uh, well met.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And then the final page is this uh terrifying uh whole panel of null, god of the symbiotes, yes, who we know from uh the Venom comic we read, this crazy cosmic big bad. Uh, and he's just got uh Silver Surfer by the throat and he's saying, I am Null, you may call me God.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah, you may call me God. I I love this because it's so um this is like I think another great um kind of splash panel of like this distinctive like art style. Because again, null and it's and it's even more fun because we've seen null before, and we've seen I think a much more kind of like um I don't know, I'm gonna use the word serious, and I hope that I that does not come off as like liking or disliking one or the other, but a more um uh or I guess I would say a less kind of psychedelic version of Null is what we've saw is what we saw before.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Like out of a horror movie, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Exactly. Very much on that, and this is a much more like um if we're thinking about um uh our boy Scotty right now, Scott McLeod, um, this is I think a much more kind of like cartoonish side of a of an approach, right? And that's not a a negative feeling or whatever else, but it's uh it's just super interesting. Like the way that like the hair and like the cloaks and all these different things are like flowing in this is very, very, very, very stylized.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Everything is very rounded, I think I'll say too. Very, very round and organic. Like any time where maybe another artist would make straight, sharp lines. Uh Trad goes for uh spheres and rounded edges. Um and it it's just yeah, it's really remarkable. Uh obviously, like we said, this first issue, we're kind of easing into that, and I think we you get more and more comfortable with it as we go, and also he just leans into it to to greater and greater and greater effect as uh as the story goes on.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, I think that you're super right. I mean, it's it's interesting. This first issue, I think, um, you know, if you do end up reading this and picking this up, I think that the first issue is maybe the um I don't know, it's not right to say that it's like the quote unquote like hardest to get through. That's not really what I mean to say, but I think like, you know, you kind of have to accept the art and kind of understand where you're coming into this story a little bit, right? Because at first when I'm seeing um I can't remember what his name, but you know, all these other heroes and things like that, and and trying to understand like what it is that they're experiencing at first, I think is like, especially through this art style, I think is a little bit um I don't know, daunting is not the right word, but you know, you you have to you have to lock in a little bit, I think, uh, to get into this. But then when you this is a beautiful thing where you you once you kind of take on that slight um mental load to reframe the way that you're looking at this this comic and understand what point of the story you're at, the payoff for that with the rest of these issues, I think, is is so so big.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

But yeah, that's um that's how we wrap up issue one, sort of setting the table for this whole story. Simple and sweet. I like that. And uh let's let's jump into issue number two.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Issue number two. So um the in this one, the surfer is drifting through the early universe, he's weakened and increasingly becoming corrupted by darkness. He encounters ego, the living planet, long before ego becomes this um this being that Marvel readers know. Um you know, I think of of seeing Ego as like um uh Star Lord's dad in in the Guardian of the Galaxy movies. Um but anyway, uh as his uh um as he basically ends up meeting ego, uh ego tries to guide him toward becoming something better than I guess what he is right now. Um and meanwhile, Noel is continuing to spread his influence to the cosmos, right? Knoll again, like he said, call me God, crazy. Um this issue ends up shifting the story from survival towards the Silver Surfer trying to um actually leave like a positive mark on the universe that um at this point has has barely begun because he's way back in the back in time um when Noel was kind of coming around um in the beginning as well. But it's interesting again, we're gonna we're getting these kind of philosophical ideas of the Silver Surfer actually kind of caring, and it's and it's pretty wild to like decide to care after you know the innumerous uh planets and worlds and and lives that he's seen um be snuffed out. But hey, you know, conscience is a bitch, it'll come get you uh when you when you least expect it, I guess. But it was great. This was a great issue, too.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, what uh let's see, let's let's dive in. This first, I mean, talking about color, right? Yeah, right from the beginning, the first page, we we have these amazing shots of Galactus, you know, consuming a planet, and it's the lava is exploding up from the core of the planet, pieces of the tectonic plates are shattering, uh everything is reds and oranges, and um the Silver Surfer is kind of just floating upside down, like holding him holding his needle position, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Uh and there's a great there's a I think one of the great kind of quotes of this moment that acknowledges like the Silver Surfer's experience is the I have seen such wondrously horrible things, so often that their memories have become hauntingly common. Um and he goes on to kind of talk about some of the specific memories and then also seeing um he says, you know, world upon world, civilization after civilization, I've seen such wonderfully horrible things. And I've witnessed the King in Black once, a long, long time ago. Um, and then we get back into talking about null.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Right. So we get this cool little flashback to a time where he ran into null uh way, way back in the past, a different past from the one we're currently in. Right, yeah. But basically, if we remember from Venom, all of the symbiotes turned against Null and basically created a planet around him that was a cage. Yes. I forget the name of the planet. It's like it's like Palantir, honestly. The name reminds me of that. It's not Palantir.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

But it's maybe just as terrible.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Right. Um, and I don't think it's worth our time to go actually find the actual thing. But regardless, the Silver Surfer has encountered this planet and it's depicted very uh like coral, coral reef looking, or all these organic weird plants, and uh he gets gooped up by it. This whole big venom mouth comes and snaps him, and he gets to see in the core of the planet is uh null chained up and bound by all of these symbiote uh ropes and goo and whatever in the center of it. And he he just basically locks eyes with it, realizes how messed up this place is, manages to blast out of there on a surfboard, and he's like out. Um, and then we flash back to our current now, the dawn of time, where he's locked in battle with the same guy, and this is we sort of realize he's like, oh shit, it's that guy that I saw bound in that symbiote goop planet.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, way, way long ago. And it's interesting because he also talks about like why, you know, he acknowledges he realizes that, and the Silver Surfer is the heat, he realizes that this is not really like a planet, right? This is like this gigantic horde of symbiotes. Um, but they also seem to um fear the Silver Surfer, right? And he and he goes on to say, you know, why why do you fear me, little ones? I mean you no harm. And he says, they fear me because billions of years ago I made their hidden god bleed. Um and that's where Ben's talking about this this moment where the Silver Surfer is fighting against null um here. And it's and I mean we get into some crazy, I don't know, it's it's wild to see all this art again, but it's just um these battles look unbelievable. And it's uh trying to the beauty of piecing these things all together and understanding this art style as you go, I think really offers such a fun um viewing, just like visual experience as you go on.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

A lot of the poses are so dynamic and amazing. I I think throughout the book, I'm gonna definitely highlight some of them uh later on. But this like Silver Surfer's power set, seeing him fight is so cool. I feel like his surfboard is just this weird organic extension of himself that he can shape into basically anything he needs. So he'll go like flying in, the surfboard will become a weapon, he'll do some crazy acrobatic, you know, combat maneuvers or whatever with this weapon that is the surfboard, and then it'll just transform back into a surfboard and he'll go flying off on it. Um, just really, really cool creative uh fight scenes here. And yeah, we see a null, you know, terrifying, huge god figure, huge purple beams of energy blasting out, stabbing his sword into things, like uh crazy.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

I love the way that actually there's a great panel of Null's arm like extended all the way out that kind of overlays on the top of a bunch of other panels, which looks really, really cool. And then we get, I think, one of the craziest um just looking things for a moment because actually during this fight, um uh Silver Surfer's actually weakened, right? Which we talked about a little bit before. He had to go through this kind of whole experience that he was before. But um, at least for a point in time, actually kind of beats the Silver Surfer and all of these symbiotes. We basically see like the venom Silver Surfer to a certain extent. I mean, this is kind of like he's making him into a knight. Uh, and there's this moment where the Silver Surfer even calls uh Noel my lord, right? Right. And this uh Noel is so kind of like excited about this. Um, and they're basically saying the light, you know, needs to die, and then there's this crazy and this is color also, right? So we're seeing all this black now because the silver server has been consumed, and then we see this voice coming out of nowhere that's also the voice, the the the text bubble for the voice is um kind of psychedelic in its own right, but it's this blast of energy that basically tears all of the symbiotes off the Silver Surfer, um, which is I mean, just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Very cool. And let's talk a little bit about what Silver Surfer looks like. Like this is basically like Venom Silver Surfer, right? It's like Silver Surfer covered in a symbiote. Uh and it's very H.R. Geiger inspired, which we should talk about for a second. He's the artist that he's like a Swiss artist and sculptor who came up with all the imagery for Alien, the original Alien movie. And this whole uh the way the way that the Silver Surfer looks um is very referential to that, in my opinion. If you look at art from Alien here, Antonio, here on some of the stuff too.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

I think that you're definitely right. There's definitely some vibe that's coming from that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

And uh, you know, very sinister. It's sort of supposed to make us think like how terrifying he would be as a you know, a knight, like a herald of null instead of a herald of galactus. Uh, and we see it just for a moment enough for us to kind of try to get our heads wrapped around it. And then obviously this uh entity saves him, does this big blasts all the symbio off of him so that he has a moment to escape. But um, and we don't realize later that we don't realize who is saving him. We find out later that it is Ego, the planet, is the one reaching out to him and saves him in this moment. But yeah, even just for even just for like a couple pages, getting to see what Silver Surfer would look like in that state is uh is pretty scary.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

I love seeing those like, yeah, like like the kind of like Nega um you know versions of of people and things like that. Um but so the Silver Surfer ends up being able to break out of this thanks to um ego's gigantic like fiery light beam that comes there. Um and uh like you said, we he doesn't know that it this is ego yet, but he says, you know, ego says, run, follow my voice, and the silver surfer breaks away, and there's this crazy, crazy panel. I'm honestly surprised that this is not like a full splash panel in its own right, but you see the silver surfer shooting away from this planet and this kind of beam of light, but you see the entire planet basically this gigantic symbiote thing with all these arms reaching out um to try and grab the Silver Surfer as he uh disappears off. And it's I mean, it's it's like yeah, I'm honestly surprised that this one's not like a full splash panel, but it's it's crazy looking, crazy, very alien.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, it's a it's it's amazing. Uh then we see, let's see, narratively, Nolf summons this insane dragon, uh symbiote dragon that we've seen uh going crazy in um you know, in Venom. It's one of his things. His his his uh like venom symbol on his chest is this scary red dragon. So he's always summoning and creating these uh symbiote dragons, and we basically get to see this outer space uh chase with Null pursuing the Silver Surfer at crazy speeds through the cosmos on the back of this dragon. Uh and then we see this is another one of the crazy panels for for me, in my opinion. I totally agree. Where the sil the way the Silver Surfer deals with this is he basically turns around, summons away more of that uh power cosmic and just basically blasts through the center of the dragon, like through its mouth and and out the back, and it just explodes and in fire and burns away, and that gives him gives him the time to finally escape null. And he he keeps chasing, uh following the sound of like this voice that's basically trying to help him get out of this situation. And we see now his entire arm, his hand all the way up to his shoulder is this uh black, iridescent, sort of oil slick looking uh substance. So we can see as he's um as he's power, it's it's eating away at him in one way or another. Right. There's like a physical and personal cost to him um escaping null, basically.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah, there's actually this is such a random thing that I just noticed, but there's a great I love like the kind of cartoonishness of this panel of null, like kind of screaming or yelling after the dragon is destroyed. It's like it's so like cartoony with the way that the hand, like the kind of claws and the teeth look in the mouth and whatever else. It's like it it it almost is like a departure from what null would normally look like to um accentuate what this what this moment is kind of displaying.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Right. Let's see if there's some some good text or anything that we should highlight here. Says the king in black may yet devour my light, uh, but he will choke on it, and that's when he blasts through the dragon, right? Uh he says, hmm-mm-mm, I survive, but I'm afraid of what I will be when I am done. The darkness infecting me, changing me. Am I to be death again? Is this how I fall? How I become? And you know, ego interrupts this monologue in his own mind and is like, No, Norn, not this day. I see in your mind when you fought this god, this knull on this planet, a voice in your mind told you that you would deserve death. This would be a fitting end, it said, for a destroyer of worlds to be devoured by one. Today, Norn, this changes because today a planet will be your salvation, and we get my name is Ego. Shall we kill a god? Banger. And the final panel is one of the most like freaky, like objectively psychedelic looking things we've seen, and uh begins this whole issue, our next issue takes place mostly on and within Ego, the living planet. Um, and this try to describe what we're looking at here.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah, I don't even know. I was thinking about I was like kind of zooming in on this um as looking. I mean, it's just so crazy. I mean, it's it's wild line work. I mean, that's the interesting thing actually about looking at the planet itself. It's like so much of this is almost like um the planet itself is almost like sketch scribbled to give it this like darkness and um kind of weird uh uh surface to it. It's also got eyes, right? This is like a planet that actually has basically a face to it. It's got eyes, nose, and a mouth. Um, but then surrounding this are these crazy, crazy colors that um as Ben is talking about, this kind of like organic um type of feeling there. But it is it is truly, as you said, one of the most psychedelic pages that we see in here um early on. And I think ego itself, um the planet in this actually I think is very uh visually distinctive from almost every other one of the panels that we see in this whole story. So I'm I'm interested as to why exactly they made that choice, but it does make a huge um impression when you take a look at it. And there was actually one um kind of bit of dialogue that I wanted to point out from this here that goes back to this philosophical issue that the Silver Surfer's deal dealing with, where um ego is talking to him and says uh you know, calls him Norrin, right? Which is interesting. So he's like, How do you even know my name? And then the ego goes on to say, Yes, Noran, Norin Rad from Zen Law, the Silver Surfer herald of a being called Galactus, destroyer of worlds. But you are repentant, are you not? You are death, it weighs on you the darkness. Um I know them because you know them. I can see inside your mind. This is talking about basically how does he know these things. But I think that ego noticing and acknowledging that the silver surfer is repentant, right? That's really what kind of leads us into the rest of this this whole story, um, and them uh maybe even possibly eventually working together to do some stuff. So pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah. Remarkable. Uh thanks for reading that. That was a good find. The let's see, that kind of wraps up wraps up issue number two, and we're jumping into three. The covers for don't even get me started, brother.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Don't even get me started.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Truly unbelievable. Uh, the cover for issue issue two that we just finished had another one of those amazing multimedia panels where it has real, what looks like real imagery of planets, or if it is, you know, a generated or you know, it's it's done so in a photorealistic way. Yes. It looks like something from the real world, and then we have the our our amazing reflective organic uh silver surfer in the fetal position floating upside down over top of these planets, and it's just in you know, incredible visual stuff. And the cover for issue three uh as we get into this sort of ego chapter, ego the living planet chapter, is you know, as we said, we're really dialing up the psychedelic imagery here. We see the Silver Surfer standing uh in front of all of this crazy, goopy, organic matter. Right. And I think one of the things that I'll just get out ahead before we even read our summary for issue three, that uh it looks like visually they're being super inspired by cell structure. Like all this stuff brings back AP bio for me. Like all of these these little goopy things with legs or like the different proteins that are moving things around inside, you know, and the like I don't even remember, these things look like bacteriophages or whatever. Um, the powerhouse of the cell. If I know one thing, it's that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Indeed, indeed. Uh, but I mean that makes sense also for them thinking how they're gonna depict this living planet, you know, and it's sort of like the scale, like our bodies are made up of all these weird molecular things. And then if it's like a body scaled up to the size of a planet, it kind of feels like a magic school bus in a way, too.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Dennis, that's a great, that's a great one. Shout out we're we're drawing parallels between Silver Surfer and Magic School Bus today and mitochondria.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

It really does feel that way, you know. Like, well, we're gonna go we're gonna go inside the core of this living planet, and it's all just uh goopy molecular structures.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Molecular stuff, yeah. Crazy. So I'll dive into this summary for issue number three. So the Silver Surfer finds himself um, you know, pulled towards the strange world, right, which we end up finding is uh uh ego. Um, and he uh uh also ends up reconnecting with these memories of his past and his life as Norn Rad. Um, as his body continues to turn black and kind of be corrupted in this way, he struggles to hold onto his identity and and purpose. Umcing the server to confront how much of himself he's willing to lose to do the things that he needs to do. Um, and this issue focuses heavily on identity and what remains when hope begins uh fading away. Because the the interesting thing about this too is that the Silver Surfer, as he's being consumed, doesn't he doesn't really see like the positive end to this. It's like and and kind of what one of the things that was addressed before is that the Silver Surfer is almost ready to die in a way, where you know, ego had acknowledged this um this uh inner monologue in the last issue that the Silver Surfer had, basically saying, you know, a fitting end, right, to a destroyer of worlds. Um so we're gonna see some more of that philosophical uh discussion in this one. But diving into this first here, we get uh a view of who the Silver Surfer was before, and also um the woman that was his partner uh on the world that he was uh on before he became the Silver Surfer.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yeah, this vision is crazy. It's hard to tell what's real, what's a memory, what is a vision. Uh, but it's basically the two of them like waking up and uh you know talking about dreaming of them having a kid someday, making making a light together.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Actually, one thing, I'm sorry to interrupt you on this, but one of the things that I love is the way that actually on this first page um we see uh these panels that kind of jump back and forth between like the cosmos and then um this uh this woman. I I gotta find I gotta find her. Oh, sh uh Shalabal, that's her name. Um he you know, uh uh Silver Server goes on to call her kind of his one constant. Um but this crazy like back and forth between the cosmos and then her, and then the Silver Server opening his eyes is like we basically end up seeing that like the cosmos is kind of like the black of like his eyes. Eyelids, which is so uh crazy, just super interesting to look at and to you know it'd be it'd be fun to better understand like what it is, like where does that come from, bro? Where do you think of that? What is that, you know? Just great, again, great art by these guys, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

So in this vision, he's saying there is uh that they're basically locking eyes and and dreaming about having a kid together someday, which again is interesting, like him talking about creating a star, creating life. He's saying, Let's make a light, which is a part of this whole thing, right? Like the the the light, it's sort of light versus darkness, silver surfer versus null, um, throughout, you know, the the the that sort of uh dichotomy is what we're examining throughout this whole story. And so he says, There in that moment, Shawla looking at me with gentle eyes that could hush a storm. That was the last time I knew peace. The last time I touched my love with a hand that belonged to me, the last time I felt small, powerless, for that was the day he arrived. Um, the day that death came to Zen Law. And what's really striking, I think, about this version of the past, this vision that they're seeing, it's not Galactus that arrives and destroys the plane. It's a good thing. It's Silver Surfer Black, it's him fully coated in that black, oily uh it's but it's not even coated. It's not like he's coated with a symbiote. It's that instead of being silver, he is black. You know, it's it's distinct from him turning into venom, is what I'm trying to say here. Um, but yeah, then we have this crazy, crazy sequence showing like a like kaiju-sized, planet-sized black silver surfer pulling up and destroying the planet. We see him reach out all these tendrils, uh enveloping the world. We see sort of this god, god mode, six-armed silver surfer silver surfer uh rising up and the surfboard itself goes, you know, is what plunges down into the planet and ultimately makes it explode. Um so it's sort of, you know, this vision is crazy. It's very sort of him remembering the last moment of peace before he got sent on this journey to become ultimately a devourer of worlds himself.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

The thing that the thing that almost like he he his experience that has like traumatized him the most is what he ended up becoming. And there's this great um this great dialogue um uh that ends up happening here. And I guess it's not so much dialogue, but his inner monologue. But he says, the destroyer never spoke, he would not be quelled or reasoned with or fought. There were no words that would sway him any more than a song could stop a bullet. What a great little song could stop a bullet. That's just so fun, Donnie. Uh and so we watched and we wept and we screamed at our extinction. Um just uh crazy monumental background panels to this of this destruction of this planet. Um and you can actually see um uh the Silver Server before obviously before he transformed here, but as as um what's his name? Norren?

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Yeah, Norn Norn.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Yeah, but he says, please spare this planet and I will join you at your and then it just boom, everything explodes. Uh crazy, crazy. And yeah, it's to see, you know what they say, right? You you either die a hero, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain, but maybe you get to be here again. I don't know. Who knows? We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Right. Uh, but yeah, so so we snap from that vision and and dream of the past back to our our current part in the story where uh Silver Surfer is talking to ego the planet. The art and color is a really as we already talked, I already you know tried to monologue about how everything looks organic and like cell structures, but the color is all green and purple, I feel like is really green, purple, orange, uh these weird contrasting colors that um is sort of the color palette that we're living in for this whole this whole issue here. Uh basically, in summary, we have all this you know conversation between ego and the silver surfer, and they realize that there's something at the core of the of Ego the Planet that is maybe killing him.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Uh or uh there's something that's happening that like uh ego's like, oh, I'm a young planet, I'm growing, is all nothing, you know, don't worry about it. Um but then it keeps on going on. It's like I don't know if it's like earthquakes are happening or something like that, but there's obviously a disturbance coming from the inside of this planet ego.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah, and and Silver Surfer's like, Ego, you must tell me what's wrong. And he says, It's something, something inside me, something crashed into me, a meteorite of some kind. It's embedded deep in my core and it's growing, it's killing me. Uh and um Silver Surfer basically is like, all right, bro, I'm gonna go to the core of you and I'm gonna figure out what's going on. I'm gonna save you. Um and his surfboard turns into a drill. Right, and it's just it this is one of the most insane, almost anime sequences I've got.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

You talked about these panels before we even got on the podcast. You take this one, brother.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

I mean, I'll yeah, I'll try my best to describe it, but he basically look on the Instagram for sure. Yeah, I'm gonna have some of these up there, but this the surfboard becomes this insane drill. We also the the background as we see him accelerate, it's trying to show basically how fast he's moving. And the matrix. Yeah, the world becomes like a neon green like computer grid, basically. Um and he goes flying through Ego the Planet, and this this page is one of the craziest, like you can see all of the different uh layers of Ego the Planet as Silver Surfer is drilling through them, and then we also have on top of that huge background picture three different uh three different frames of Silver Surfer sort of at a three-dimensional angle for us to see him flying through the panels, denoting time passing through the panels as they do in comics, and also showing us one's purple, one's uh sort of this earthy yellow, one is red, um basically seeing him flying into the center of this planet, uh and the the let's see, the infected rocks of this planet uh splinter beneath me, cutting through the yielding clay and loam like a hawk through the sky, a great ocean of bruised stone turned to dust, deposits of galactic diamonds, the size of leviaths, uh you know, it's just cool, cool descriptions of the Silver Surfer.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah, and actually one thing that he mentions here, which is interesting, is that he describes that those diamonds scraping at his wounded flesh, right? This kind of big thing again that shows that um the Silver Surfer's experiencing some kind of degradation here is that um he's feeling any of this. Um and I think he actually goes on to talk some more about that that later on. But oh yeah, he says, you know, my board and I would barely shudder as we scorched them in our wake. Um you know, in another time when everything was working correctly, but with my shell weakened and my core degrading by the moment, I feel all of it, every scrape in my flesh, every lick of flame, even with my board slicing through the violent cells as fast as they can self-replicate. There's that cell thing as we were talking about. Um, the work, the battle, it's exhausting, but not impossible. No, never that. Um, that's also such a great little, you know, it's it's hard, but it's not impossible.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Right. And one of the things that that's uh ego discussed it's where it's dangerous for Silver Surfer to go into the core of the planet is because sort of like his immune system, anything that's in there, it's it's gonna try to fight him out, basically. So uh the Silver Surfer's needing to fight against ego's own organic defense mechanisms, basically. Absolutely, antibodies. This is one of my favorite, I think, action sequences, also, just the way that Silver Surfer moves. It's actually I I think it it's uh it's almost balletic. I don't know if that's the right word. It's very interesting. He kind of is like leaping uh so gracefully, it almost seems like he's dancing. But this sequence, he says, board, a blade, please. And we see his board becomes this incredible spear that he's like leaping in this, I don't even know, like a full, like he's in a split.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

I basically noticed that one. Yeah, it's it's like I don't know, I don't know what they call it, but yeah, it's a leaping full split. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

It spins the spear around. It's you we see it flying like a like whirlwind of blade all around him. He's like pure, pure away.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

I realized that that was what that was, bro. That's so sick.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah, so the boy, it's uh, and again, this page has no panels. The story, the time is passing just in these organic sweeps as the silver surfer is fighting. Uh, we see the blade like flying, like slicing through all of these organic tendrils that are reaching for him. And then on the next page, we see him grab grab the spear, swing around it kind of like a pull, and then as he's swinging, it turns back into a surfboard. He lands black back on it and is like flying. I don't know. It's just it's so cool. It's very, it's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

I don't know, bro. This is again one of those ones where you just gotta go pick that shit up, or at the very least, go on the Instagram page, give that shit a like, swipe through those things that Ben's gonna put in there, and you're gonna want to pick this shit up. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Um, but long story short, he successfully fights off uh these defenses the ego has in the center of the planet, and he discovers the problem at the core. And what does he find, Antonio?

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Dude, he finds Galactus. He finds basically like the egg of Galactus. He says, Um, you know, and with a feeling that is both dread and inevitability crashing into each other, I sense what it is. And Silver Surfer out loud, all of this is monologue, and then he says one thing out loud, he says, No, it cannot be. And uh then we get the monologue, uh, the internal monologue again. It is the destroyer, the world killer yet to be born. Here in the burning infant core of Ego the Living Planet, lies Life Bringer One, the cosmic incubator of Galactus.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

And this this item they see, it sort of reminds me of like the that cube from Transformers.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I was almost thinking of like the what do they call it, like the Tesseract or whatever? I almost thought it was gonna be that when I looked at this, but yep, that's another good analogy. It does look like that. It's kind of got Galactus's hat on a little bit. So I was like, I think I get it.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

But the uh it it's very different from everything we like, it's obviously not part of ego. All of ego is this as we keep saying sharp edges. Right. Ego is goopy organic stuff, and then here we see it's got the pink, it's got the purple, it's got the silver, it's got sharp edges. It's a cube. Right. Uh which you know, obviously is not meant to be inside ego. Um, and this is a big dun dun dun, uh dramatic sort of cliffhanger at the end of our story.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Galactus, the devourer of worlds, is inside our boy ego. And it's it's so it's also just wild to think about like what time we're in, because you know, Galactus just feels like one of those like um you know forever characters, right? And so to be at any point when Galactus is like somehow not a thing or like gonna be growing into something or whatever else and not his full form is just so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

It's also this crazy reminder of this time paradox that we're in, which again is it's very cosmic, it's very uh Einstein, you know, space-time, relativity, all that type of stuff, right? It's absolutely the Silver Surfer was a was created. I mean, he was a guy, Galactus pulled up to his planet, made him his herald, right? Now he how is Silver Surfer even existing pre-galactus? Right. Now he's fine, yeah. It all doesn't quite make sense, but it doesn't have to. It's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

All these about time things, brother. They'll get you. Also, this is a random thought, but well, this is the end of this issue, and they they always have these crazy variants at the end. Is that a carnage Silver Surfer? That's crazy. Wow. Mm-hmm so far. Uh that's another thing. This is a random, random interjection here. I think we talked about this before, but again, one of the most fun things that I think about comics in general, right, is getting to see all of these different um obviously story interpretations, but also artistic interpretations of what these characters can look like. We actually have one here that's actually very like um realistic looking, which is which is you know, it's funny we talked about the word off-putting. I feel like that's probably one of the more off-putting ones that exists there, but super, super cool um and unique in its own right. But yeah, so that that wraps up issue number three. Um, and we'll, you know, why not we'll dive back to issue number four and I'll read our little summary. So the surfer's condition uh is worsening as he pushes towards a final confrontation with Noel. He realizes defeating darkness will require sacrifice rather than brute force. Um this issue leans heavily into cosmic imagery and philosophical themes, not unlike the others, um, as the surfer refuses to abandon his ideals despite mounting losses. Great quote, by the way, that we're gonna get into there, bro. Um and then uh by the end of this issue, he commits fully to protecting light, even if it costs him everything. Um Wow, that's uh that's a crazy last sentence in our little summary there. But um, this one again is wild. Another crazy, crazy um uh uh page, or I guess like art on the um cover of this issue, uh, where it's like I mean, Silver Surfer surfing through all this stuff. We are seeing like kind of like the face of Galactus in this orange burning fire behind him. It's kind of like a mushroom cloud. It is kind of like a mushroom cloud. That's a that's actually very, very true. Um but again, just crazy. Um, but getting into it, um Silver Surfer basically is looking at this egg of Galactus, and uh it's kind of like, you know, I have a chance. He says, Perhaps fate has given me one more chance to end it, to end it all, right? And so what he actually is kind of thinking of doing is basically um at a simple kind of thing, he's kind of thinking about like kicking uh Galactus's egg into the sun, basically. Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Um which is again one of these time paradox things where how could if he destroys Galactus, how is he ever gonna become the Silver Surfer in the first place? It's like destroying his own origin. Like it's it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. I'll try to read read some of the Donny Cates's uh writing here on this first page. So we see basically Silver Surfer is is trying to get this Galactus egg outside of ego, uh like push it out back out through the planet, and he says, I can feel it growing. The darkness looms as I carry my maker on my back. Long ago before he was the devourer Galactus. Um long ago before he was the devourer, Galactus was an explorer named Galan. It's funny trying to keep track of all these names too. They're all they're all goofy.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

But it's I love that like everybody has like two names.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Everybody's like, I'm this, but what I was and you can tell they're like it's like some it's like people in the 60s being like trying to come up with I gotta love it.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Sounds like Galan, Norn Red, Shal Balal. Yeah, right, right. And I love when they throw those like hyphens in. That's like you know, we talk about League or whatever else, they always have like all the characters from the void are all like you know, first thing in the hyphen Rexide. Exactly, Chogath, all these things, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Anyway, uh a lot of Chogath mentions on the pot too. Chogath in the spawn episode. The man himself. But regardless, let me let me finish let me finish this page, right? So uh when his universe died, or perhaps was killed, he was remade within this incubator and shunted into our universe when it exploded into being. He is in there now, and as I deliver him from this fragile living planet, my shadow grows along with him, and I know my time burning in the infinite night is soon coming to an end. But perhaps, perhaps here at the dawn of time, facing oblivion on the back of a dragon, perhaps fate has given me one more chance to end it, to end it all.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Banger, banger, banger, banger, banger, crazy. It's good writing. It is good writing. Donnie Cates, come on the pod, we'll see you soon. Um, but this, yeah, this is wild. And so um Silver Surfer's trying to take this egg. Um, one of the conversations that uh he ends up having with Ego is that they both know that null is coming, right? Null is approaching, um, which is a a crazy experience. And the other thing that actually ends up happening here uh is that we get the reaffirmation that ego is actually going to help the Silver Surfer um fight against Null, which is pretty crazy to have that living planet. But um we get this crazy uh page where the Silver Surfer is again right about to he says one slight push, and he can literally push this egg basically into Helios Are the white dwarf star of the Apollo system. Um and he says, you know, one one slight push and everything goes away, countless lives spared from his hunger, hundreds of planets shining their light into the darkness, uh, and I and then he's basically he ends up getting interrupted by something. He he's thinking of his um of his partner um back in the day, but we see this shadow kind of looming behind him. Actually, I didn't even notice where we see the face of this creature like reflected in his silver like head, which is so funny. Um but this guy shows up uh Uatu. Umatu the watcher. The watcher, yeah. One of these observers, uh, which is which is wild. I do not do you know much about the Yeah, I know I know a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

So one of the things in our current Marvel world, right? This guy actually is in um uh I forget what they call it, but like uh what if he's the narrator of Marvel What If, like in official MCU. If you it's it's on it's on Disney Plus or whatever, which I don't have anymore. But um these guys basically are some like ancient pantheon of cosmic gods, and their whole deal is they just observe, like they're not supposed to interfere at all. But that's one of the things, obviously, shit gets so crazy that eventually sometimes like damn. All right, we gotta do a little something. And I think it is probably one of those moments. Right, it's moments like this. Like we were talking about um uh like stuff in space-time continuum where he's like, bruh, if the Silver Surfer pushes the guy that's the devourer of worlds that created the Silver Surfer into a star in the ancient billions of years ago previous era. It's gonna get a little weird. Like, what's gonna so he be, you know, these guys basically pop up at in the very very important times and are like, hey, I'm not supposed to interfere, but don't please don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

I just want to let you know something. But the interesting thing right here that they say is that he says the watchers have decreed that galactus shall live. There must always be a balance, the light, the dark. Your presence here is the interference, not mine. Um yeah, crazy energy.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Which which is the core concept. I think it's like Galactus is like the concept of entropy, right? It's like this thing where the the things sort of naturally are always falling apart and decomposing, right? And if everything exists indefinitely, there's not like it's sort of like there can't be life without death. You know, it's like one of these weird, like two sides of the same coin thing where obviously we would love to say, oh, cool, like what if what if nobody ever died? What if everything lasted forever? What if nothing changed, right? And it's like, well, actually, everything would fall apart if if that were true, right if that worked, you know. Um, everything can't just exist indefinitely. So it sort of is getting into Galactus being, you know, and again, uh the Silver Surfer reckoning with death and being the herald of the end for all of these worlds and everything, right? It's uh it's like this weird cosmic scale that he's at the scale in uh you know, trying to keep balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Yeah, this is almost like a beyond like a cosmic scale. Whatever is like beyond that, because it's like if these guys are truly the watchers of like everything, like there's what is what is beyond cosmic? I don't even know. But um that's these guys, and what's interesting, um we also we also get kind of like a little um tidbit of all these different um you know possibilities. I don't know if these um, you know, some of these have have played out, but um this watcher says, you know, there are many lives, Norn, every action makes branches of realities, possible universes. In one you die alone on Zen Law, and when you grow old with your wife and your children, and one you live until the end of time and die at the hands of Thanos while wielding Mjolnir, which is crazy. Um That's uh we could we'll read that one. I've read that one. Yeah, and the one you proposed. That's a comic bro. That's crazy. And the one you propose you kill the infant Galactus in his incubator, but hear me, your actions, the things you have done, will not be unmade. You will still remain your hands no less bloody. The only thing that will change is that you will have to live with what you have done this day. Um, which again, philosophical thing that uh Silver Surfer is really grappling with.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Maybe this is actually a thought I just had. Maybe this is relating to the vision or dream he was having in the previous issue where if he destroys Galactus now, he becomes Galactus. Like there needs to be like that's why that he would like he becomes Silver Surfer Black or whatever. Yeah, and he's the one, instead of being the herald, he himself ends up being the one that has to pull up and destroy the planets himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

That's interesting. That's crazy. That I could see that for sure. Damn. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. That's maybe one.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

We're writing that comic. Hey, hey, this this panel right here, this is a crazy one, right? We see him, Silver Surfer, is sort of think he's reaching out into the power cosmic, and he's he's uh he's sort of like pulling his own skin apart as and you see his eyes are like blood, bloody sockets as he's looking into. He says, let's see, let's read some of it. He says, if I could just reach his mind, the powers, perhaps I could and he's trying to reach Galan, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Which is the previous version of Galactus. That's who he's kind of reaching out to.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

And he says, I feel him, I touch his mind, and I see it. His last hours in his universe, the black winter that fell on his reality, trillions of skull of trillions of souls screaming and dying and blinking out of existence. It is too much, even for me. I cannot stand it. And then rising from an ocean of freezing death, uh, he is there. This panel, all red panel of silver surfer like surfing out of this ocean of lava and blood and just mega huge galactus is standing above him. It's one of my favorite ones, I think. It's absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

That'll be on Instagram. Go check it out too and pick this up. But crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

And then the the following panel has this sort of symbolic little back and forth with Silver Surfer and Galactus in this vision, right? And it's like Silver Surfer is turning into a snake, which then gets chased by this red eagle, which then turns into a octopus, and then Silver Surfer turns into a dolphin, and then there's then he becomes a wolf who's chasing the deer, you know, or just in this crazy dream state, uh, before eventually uh they get to confront each other, and Silver Surfer gets to have a conversation with Galan, the guy who eventually becomes Galactus. Uh, and that's really the heart of this issue, I think, is their conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Um, and you know, the surf Silver Surfer originally says to Galan when he asks, you know, why do you attack me, Traveler? Who are you? And he says, I mean. To kill you for the things you will do and the thing you will become, so that I may heal myself to stop another horror. Um, and he, you know, Golan asks, What am I to become? And Silver Surfer says, Death, right? And they go on. Um, and I think this is this is actually a very interesting thing that Golan brings up, but Silver Surfer says, You become a destroyer of worlds, you feast upon them in the name of some unseen scale you claim to balance. And Golan says, Hmm, I see. If I may, is that not also your excuse, right? And it's SilverServer's like, I'm sorry. And he's Gala Golan says, You hope to stump my li snuff my life out in order to prevent some sort of other what did you call it, horror? You would kill light to beat the dark. Are you not also balancing the fates with death? I have felt a traveler, this new power of mine, I can feel the universe pulling me towards a perfect purpose of its own design. I know too many things. Soon I will outgrow this form and I grow hungry. So do what you must, but as one who has gazed into it and yet lived, I know but one thing about the nature of universal balance. You cannot defeat the dark with darkness. Um I think is such a interesting. And this is another moment where the Silver Server is actually crying, right? Which I think is again showing how truly emotional this is for this insanely um cosmic being, which I yeah, it's interesting. I wonder I wonder what the tipping point was really for him to start feeling this way. But uh very interesting. And so this is where SilverServer also makes a choice to not push Galactus into um this sun, basically this egg into the sun. He says, I am not my maker, I am not death. Um and he basically just whips Galactus towards some uh I think it's yeah, he whips him into the orbit of the planet uh Arc Archaeopia, um, the first planet to die in Galactus's wake. Um I'm once again damned and dying, but not without hope. For my for my time inside the mind of the devourer, I have learned what I must do. So interesting, he basically kind of accepts that he has to just let things go in motion at the very least for this. Um but I love that he just grabs and just whips this thing like all the way at whatever planet he's sending it to.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

And again, this exertion comes at a cost. We see more of his silver skin sort of chipping and and and uh falling away, and now the black, uh his the silver surfer black part of him is all the way like his whole shoulder and half of his face uh is sort of overcome with two face, yeah. Yep. And then he uh he he goes flying back to ego and he says, Um, ego's like, Norin, you've returned. He says, uh, I don't have time to explain. The darkness snips at my throat as we speak. I require your help. Read my mind, ego, I will show you. Um, and basically they're coming up with a plan saying this is the only way. And we get these these visions again of of Norin, of the Silver Surfer, uh looking at uh looking into the uh these existences. So he says, Um let's see, ego says, Then reach out with me together your mind's eye to mine and bear witness, surfer. Open your gaze, um, open your eyes and gaze into the infinite. He says, I can see it across the stars, life, all of it connected. I can feel them all. They sense the growing black as I do, and they are all so afraid. Tell them, ego, tell them what I need from them, tell them to seed their life into the abyss, choke it with their light, now focus and channel it, all of it into me. Uh I have what I need to end this, I will no longer curse the darkness.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

Um ego says, Then what will you do? And the Silver Surfer says, burn. And I'm gonna crazy that pan that page that has burn on it is is absolutely wild. One thing I want to touch on just real quick. Um, actually, fuck it. I'm gonna say that. No, no, no, touch on do whatever. Okay. So the thing that I actually love about the way that they portray ego in this too is that so ego obviously has a face, right? We've talked about this kind of nose and mouth and eyes. When the Silver Surfer is flying back to ego, the eyes, um, like the the actual like eyeballs are like planets, right? Like the eyeball and like the people, whatever else are like moons, right, that are floating around. And so I love that we get these moments where we see ego and like the eyes are not like in the eye sockets because they're the f these floating um moons or um satellites that are just around the planet. And I just think that shit is so cool. But anyway, back to this page where he says burn at the end of this issue, we get this crazy um image of the Silver Server with this uh one side of him is this um part that's being consumed by this darkness. The other side he has his fist um with light, and we see these crazy colors. But what's amazing here too is that they use um the artists here use the negative space to kind of paint this um the dragon of uh of null over the top of uh the silver surfer. And I don't know, again, it's like whether or not it's supposed to be kind of like a shadow approaching or just the acknowledgement of like what it is that he has to fight against, right? But really just cool use of the negative space um and uh and the color and everything that's going on here, but just really just amazing. So that's that's the end of our issue number four uh right there, and and jumping into issue number five, again, another crazy cover to this, but we basically see the full um Silver Surfer black uh with the board, his entire body covered, and you know, leads us to the question, right? What's about to happen uh in this last issue? So I'll do our summary here. Um in this one, the Silver Surfer makes his final stand against Null and unleashes the full power he still possesses, and the one that he's gained, obviously, from these these planets and ego. Um the confrontation reshires reshapes Silver Surfer uh physically and spiritually spiritually while connecting him back into Marvel's larger cosmic history. Um in victory, um, spoiler, not really, but Surfer gains a deeper understanding of who he is and what he represents, and the story ends up closing kind of as a um as a meditation on sacrifice, identity, um, and and hope surviving even in this overwhelming darkness of null and things like that. Um I love I'm gonna I'm gonna decree that I'm gonna read one of these quotes that ends up coming on here, but I I love so much of the resolution of this story. And oh man, if we're talking about art, you know, the cover, this is crazy, first page in, and we're already like psychedelic as hell. We're actually getting some kind of sharper edges here, which is also kind of an interesting change. But um he talks about undone.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Yeah, and a whole new type of visual influence, too. I mean, this this the next these few pages here are just straight like Picasso, right? It does literally Picasso. Cubism, surrealism, uh sort of Dali stuff going on. I love how each of these issues are obviously they all have a similar, very similar cohesive aesthetic, but um what's his name? Trad Moore, right? Is it right? Yeah. But Trad Moore is really exploring different uh almost like historical eras of art too, like incorporating all of these different influences into what he's what he's got going on. And so it's um yeah, it's just crazy. This is straight up, straight up some surrealism, cubism.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Yeah, everything like that. It's super I mean, what's also kind of fun here, I actually didn't realize exactly what this was doing here originally, but the um internal monologue dialogue bubbles bubbles that we get here that are these um the the background is blue. Whenever the Silver Surfer is actually kind of having a memory, um, and we jump between these kind of panels that are kind of like now, and then him remembering something, um, those uh text boxes end up kind of like fading out a little bit, which I think is kind of uh interesting. And I didn't even realize the first time that I was reading this, but he's um having all these memories of these experiences with null um understanding what is actually happening now. We actually see this kind of crazy one uh of of him and Spider-Man. I don't know where that one's from. Um, but uh we obviously see also his memory of wanting to have a child um with uh with his partner there as well. Um but yeah, I mean you're so right about the cubism and the different things like that. It is like the he talks about kind of like unraveling, but this is psychedelic to the max. We're all on acid reading through this damn thing. Um I can only imagine what an experience that would be. Um, but he goes through this and ends up saying, Um, you know, horror and beauty interlace and explode in my mind's eyes as I am reborn in the dark. I was a man, Noran Rad, but then something else, a destroyer. And he says, No, I remember. And this is actually a crazy panel, too, when he says that. But he says, No, I remember, I am not my maker, I am not death, not today. And this is the moment when uh uh Noel arrives again on his dragon that is also now armored out. No's got some armor on dragon's leveled up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Yeah, dragon's got armor, null has armor, the dragon's even bigger. It's insane. It's very this final confrontation is about to be about to be wild. Bonkers, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

And so we see um the Silver Surfer with his uh the power that he has in that right hand now, right? This left side's being consumed by the darkness, and he puts his his right hand kind of over um, I guess probably his heart, but he says, you know, not today, like I had mentioned. And um what ends up happening here uh is the Silver Surfer shoots off past and kind of just goes around um the dragon.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

The surfboard, he the surfboard goes under, he goes over the dragon. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

Yeah, there's so they're blasting off and um talks about you know, Noel the god of the dark has arrived on the infant ego, and I am dying, I am weak, my cosmic shell broken and spilling into the black. There's no more running, there's no more avoiding what must be done. Still as ever, there is hope. I never fight alone. And then ego, I don't even know what the hell he's doing, but he just fire blast. Yeah, he just like uh it's like a it's like a planet just blasting, like I don't even cosmic energy at uh at Noel and the Dragon and gives um again, once again, gives uh uh Silver Surfer a chance to kind of escape or at least kind of get his bearings and be where he wants to be rather than being uh attacked in that moment. How insane is this fucking page? Crazy page, guys. Pick up the pick up the damn book, I promise you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

It has let's see, this is there's so much going on, it's it's sort of even hard to explain. But we the the backdrop is uh huge outer space shot showing the dragon flying around chasing the Silver Surfer. On the left side, we've got these uh sort of abstract panels showing a light uh sort of growing, and then on the right side we see Silver Surfer, these small panels showing Silver Surfer being consumed by the black. On the left side of this splash page, we have Knowles' face looking out at his helmet. The right side has Silver Surfer's uh, you know, Silver Surfer black see his fucking face the first time I looked at this.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Right. I saw Knowles, but I didn't even see Silver Surfers. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

There's so much going on. That's one of the cool things where it's like uh this is sort of maximalism, right? Sometimes it's really nice when we're reading to have the pages be really readable and really simple. This is almost like the opposite approach where uh, I mean, not that this is like where's Waldo in any way, but you're like you you can't just quickly look at this and and and turn the page, right? You can really spend as much time as you want looking piece by piece, uh zooming in, looking at each panel. There's just so much storytelling and art and information. Um there's almost too much to look at.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:16

This is like a multi-reader. This is like you, it's like one of those things that I think is really great. It's like first time you kind of go through it like for the story, and then the second time you go through and you get to kind of look at the art and really experience. I mean, that's kind of what we're doing right now, which is what makes this so much fun. Like we read it the first time and now we're kind of going through it again. Um, but really just like amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

And that makes it it all culminates down on the underneath that whole giant splash page. We have more traditional panels. Uh, and so basically Noah is saying, You will join me, little light. I will have you. Um, and he says, Noah, I assure you you are mistaken. Uh, and basically this culminates in Silver Surfer landing on the back of the dragon and summoning his board into this giant greatsword. Uh, he's everything about him in now, he's fully consumed by the black except for the right side of his face and his right arm. Um, and it just the this page ends with the two of them s facing off, swords in hand, ready to throw down. Yeah, fighting against the all black, the necro blade. Um which again, null, uh uh not null null's blade, but we've seen it twice now. Yep, which is pretty great. The sword was wielded by Gore the God Butcher. Yes. Um, so again, this is there's so many of these little elements between all these stories. We've got the overlap between Venom, Thor, Silver Surfer.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:35

It's all coming together. It is absolutely all coming together. And this is such a crazy um fight. Again, all these things are like kind of like stretching and and bending, and we're getting all these crazy colors. And what ends up happening kind of wildly is that it's Silver Surfer talks about, you know, in my fury I forget myself. I forget that my opponent is many, that his horde is everywhere. And it feels like there's this moment where um not even feels like, but there's this moment where the uh where Noel basically stabs the Silver Surfer through into the dragon, and it's kind of very similar to um the inside of his uh planet, um, where the Silver Silver basically gets put into that same kind of cage type of situation uh as Noel was. Um Yeah, do you want to read that whole thing? Give it to me. Alright, I'll read it. So it says a sword of darkness, all black, the necroblade, wielded by its creator, the lord of the great unending abyss, and a sword of light, a silver blade of cosmic power, made of its creator's broken living flesh. Oh, you're so right, bro. Okay, anyway, the sound they make as they clash with definite god. I wrote this shit down too. Thank thank you for reminding me of that. Yeah, but that that the sound they make as they would as they clash with definite god is such a crazy um acknowledgement of the scale, right, of the fight that they're having. And the scale of the weapons, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

Yeah, and it's I mean, we're at we're having a psychedelic sword duel on the back of a dragon as their outer space. Like we're just really on uh on X Games mode, as they say. Some may say.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:59

Yeah, some may say. Um, but yeah, so what ends up happening here is that Noel kind of thinks that he has um the Silver Surfer, he says, you know, stop, stop struggling, stop fighting this. Um, you know, it's over, it ends now. Your light is mine. Uh, and you know, again, Noel is getting this. It's like actually, I'm noticing this now. No, as he kind of is getting more aggressive, it's like almost like his anything that looks like human of him starts like peeling away, and you see these like insanely, it's like his gums start showing.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

More monstrous, right? I mean, he's he's made, he's like the god of the symbiotes. Like he's always morphing and go be and terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

He's crazy. But so we hear this internal monologue from the Silver Surfer, a voice I had I had thought was gone. Um, if we turn from battle, it says, because there's little hope of victory, where then would valor be? And so this we'll talk about this again. I'm getting little little goose goosebumps here, but that is like an original, like I think Stan Lee quote from the original Silver Surfer. And that's such a um I remember reading this and like uh I can't remember, I think it may have been like the the time where I kind of saw that it was a callback as they they share this this moment and the end of this um of this issue as this as these issues end. Um and it's so I think it's such a great um quote. I mean, just I love that like you know you don't turn from battle because there's like the the the end goal, right? This thing that you're trying to achieve, right? You you fight against all odds to try and achieve this thing because what it is that you're trying to achieve is either right or or just or you know, uh any of that. And I just think that that's such a such a beautiful kind of way to put that. And and with that that moment, we get this crazy panel where Silver Surfer is using all of this power cosmic, and he blasts away all of the darkness on him in that moment and blows away null. Um we get this crazy uh this it's so funny to me that this is just like this kind of like little side panel here. But the the the page after this this moment, we see um uh Silver Surfer basically screaming, and it's like this uh I don't even know what art style this is, but it's basically just like a bunch of these kind of like colorful lines. It's it's like very vertical lines.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:10

Lines of code, like fault like rain pattern that's creating this face. I mean, they're just like having this insane face-off and screaming at each other as Silver Surfer is literally like manifesting a huge star. And so they're they're kind of yeah, I don't know. They're null's flesh.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

That's what he ends up making, yeah. Um great use of the word sun, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:31

No, it's incredible. Um and also just uh, you know, underlining that concept you were talking about about um uh you know, because if there's little hope of victory, where then would valor be? That that concept is in some other fantasy literature. I'm pretty sure Game of Thrones, where it's like fear can only uh bravery can only exist when there's fear. Like it's like, ah, but I'm scared. It's like, well, that's the only time you can be brave. That's great too. There's it's but it that that con I mean, just the concept of hope in the face of overwhelming odds is uh, you know, obviously a super is a uh very human. I almost said superhuman, which again it's like it is. You know, it's like it's a core, it's one of the core traits um and ideals, I think, for humanity. And it's an important thing for us to think about in the mod, you know, in our modern world, there's literally unending things to feel overwhelmed about and down on, and like there's nothing we can do, and it's so easy to just let nihilism consume us and throw our hands up and say it's all it's all over, uh wrap it up. But it's very you know, it's important, it's important. This is all very aspirational stuff for real. You know, obviously this is this is goofy and fun, but it's also the the core the core message is uh beautiful and important, and we gotta keep our heads up in the face of everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

What uh let's let's call back the fucking watchmen, right? What does uh Rorschach say, right? You know, he says, Um, I can't remember the exact quote, but basically saying, you know, I will not change my morals, even what in impending doom. I can't remember what the fuck he says, but you know, that is like the essence of like the same type of thing, right? Um and just amazing. You know, this and then again, this is this moment too where uh Silver Surfer kind of has to acknowledge what it is that is gonna happen here, where he says, you know, this battle never ends. I know that I cannot stop null, that the infant son I have birthed with the last of my cosmic power will not kill him. No, he will return. I know that I cannot defeat the darkness, not forever. And so I do what I do now, not to win, but to balance, right? Um and I think that that's another kind of interesting interesting thing with it uh you know, the the and speaking of balance, like the balance between accepting the world for what it is, but still pushing for greater things, right? And that's that's a balance that we all have to kind of find inside of ourselves, um, which is just wild as well. But so he uses all of this power and the silver server basically falls from this sun that he's created um down towards this planet, uh, and he lands uh lands there. We're actually seeing him also be totally consumed um by this this darkness at this point. Um and he goes on to say, I I could almost read every single bit of dialogue, but I could read all okay, I'm gonna read all the dialogue from basically these last three pages. He says, It is the light that will burn those shadows away. My legacy, the infant life of the universe forged into galactic seeds, and these are literal seeds, drawn from the star stuff of a billion terrified worlds by ego's psychic call. For here on this nameless barren planet is the truth of everything. Your past cannot be changed, your shadow cannot be erased, you cannot defeat the dark, but you can find the light inside of you, protect it, keep it from harm, care for it, for it will be fragile, and then when it is strong, share it, give it away, shine it down upon those still trapped in the shadows, and in time perhaps the brilliance of your light will outshine the void within, and there, bathed in flame, you will be forgiven. And then from death, life. Over eons my atoms fall like seeds across the galaxy, giving life to those planets I watch die. My consciousness scattered, I am aware of their mighty breath giving chase to the winds of infinity. I watch as the ice giant massacron forms around the tiniest flickering heat of my dying form. I hear, no, I sense in the thing I was I once was the l the lowing creation howls of Eleanor 143 or El Nor 143, which is other this other planet that was destroyed. Its beautiful birth into a world that does not deserve its songs. It's also this they make this planet look like it's like a planet of dogs.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

These are all these are all callbacks to um the three panels in the beginning of the story that we see the see explode.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

Now we're seeing uh be re created. Yeah. In the blackest realms of a sector unnamed, I feel the creation myths stringing together on a world that will be draven bar, understanding at last why they worshipped a silver god, over and over worlds across world or world across world, I have become such I have become such wondrous things. And then as these planets blossomed back into the black, as they emerge and seed back into the great abyss, slowly over endless millennia, I am remade, and in doing so, or and in so doing I remember who I am, uh who I have become. I am Noran Rad, creator and orphan son of Zen Law. I am a noble light in great unending darkness. I am a friend, an ally, a lover to most or a lover to most a savior. I am known by many universe wide as the Silver Surfer, the Sentinel of the Space Waves, or Spaceways, the Herald Unchained, but no not death, no longer that. The darkness I have given now balance with the light I have shared. And so now my hands no longer drenched in red, I return in the black, and we get this crazy splash page of Silver Surfer Black, um kind of uh surfing for lack of a term, away from this experience that just ended up happening. Um and all of these panels throughout this are uh you know, this cosmic, crazy, beautifully colored, um just really just like amazing art interspersed here. Um and we get this crazy ending where he, you know, he he reaches this, and I don't know if it's right to call it like redemption, but this balance like we've talked about. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:09

Well, so and uh to make clear uh what we see happening while this amazing um you know internal monologue is happening, because we're in this this f incredible flashback time loop, right? We literally see that Silver Surfer in the past is kind of sacrificing his own life to create life on all these planets that then eventually he sees destroyed by Galactus in the far future. So it's understanding like even these places that he has had to watch end and been traumatized by watching them end, they wouldn't have even have existed in the first place without his own sacrifice to create them uh in the first place. So it's all this, you know, the it's very heavy, uh it's very heavy stuff we're sort of dealing with here in these final pages. And and again, the art we really can't even we can't even do this.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:03

There's no way we could describe this to you in a way that will really give you everything that you need. So again, recommendation, pick this shit up.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:10

Um, but yeah, and then we f we this final panel, it's a little bit tricky to uh it's not super obvious, but this this chain is um that's the stormbreaker axe. Uh so now in this final page, we're back in present present time where they're all popping out of the black hole uh in the beginning. Oh wow, I didn't even, yeah, you're totally right. That's crazy. And so this whole story has basically taken place in the you know, like Silver Surfer went to such great lengths to save everybody from the Guardians of the Galaxy story that he got sent all the way back into the past, went on this whole crazy arc, created life on countless planets throughout the world, almost destroyed Galactus, decided not to, had a battle with Null. Almost kind of almost destroyed him. Almost destroyed Null. Uh and then popped back out of all this time dilation fully fully blacked out back with the boys. Um crazy. And now he's going forward, there's there's more stories and stuff we'll see uh where he's black. He's black, he's in this mode for the for some time.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

That's so fire. That's so fire. Wow. But what uh what a crazy end um to issue number five. And I'm gonna take um this moment here. I I think I I think I am actually gonna read this entire letter um that Donnie Cates does. But so one, we get this um great ending portion here where it says for Stan at the bottom, and we get the original um art um Well, this is art. It says art by Mobius. Well, actually, so maybe this is new, but some of the original um probably dialogue here at the very least. But you know, this is where we get this don't go, Galactus is too powerful, men worship him, no one will help you, you'll be alone, you'll be destroyed. And then Silver Surfer says, if we turn from battle because there is little hope of victory, where then would valor be? Let it ever be the goal that stirs us, not the odds. That one was like the banger, bro. Like, let it ever be the goal that stirs us, not the odds. I think that that's such a good um just like emotional, bro. Like actually literally reading that one and then reading this note that Donnie Cates writes um was actually genuinely like emotional for me. Like reading that shit, I was like, Dan, this is you know, this speaks to me in uh in a very serious way.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:18

So that also is a call to Star Wars too, where it's um Han Solo's the C3PO's like, odds of us surviving are negative, and Han Solo's like, never tell me the odds.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:28

Yeah, right, exactly. Never tell me the odds. Um so I'll read this, I'm gonna read this whole letter that Donnie Cates does here because I think it's just such a such a uh a great one, and I think is why we all, you know, just I think a demonstration of why we all love art and how um our love of art comes about. But so he says, Hey true believers, which I think is what Stan leads to. So Stan called readers, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Hey, true believers. Donnie here, I just wanted to take a moment and thank you all for reading this issue. Of all the works I've been fortunate to write for the House of Ideas over the years, this one will always hold a very special place in my heart. One, because I got to work with one of my dearest and oldest friends in the industry, Trad more crazy again that they're like tapped in like that. Said I've known Trad since 2009 when we were both students at the Savannah College of Art and Design. He was that good then too, believe me. I also met Jeff Shaw there. The fact that I'm doing Silver Surfer book with my friend Trad that spins out of a Guardians of the Galaxy book that I'm doing with my friend Jeff is an embarrassment of fortunes and luck that it will never make sense to this kid over here. Also, what a great an embarrassment of fortunes and luck. God damn, Donnie. Um, it goes on to say, so f so for that, this book is fun and awesome and an absolute gift. As you can see, Trad is drawing his heart out, and to have Dave Freakin' Stewart color it, uh, how did I get so lucky? But what makes it special to me, what makes it more than a dream come true, uh, to work with my friends is what happened after I began writing it. I was sitting in an airport in Memphis writing this very issue, coming home from a con when I learned that Stanley had passed away. I closed my laptop and like many others that day I cried. And then I opened it back up and I deleted everything I had written and I began again. This issue had to be perfect, it had to mean something for him, for Stan. Stan long said that the surfer was his favorite of all his creations, and if I was going to Shefford in the first Surfer series to exist without him on this earth, I was gonna make sure it burned so bright that he could see it from his great cosmic chair, looking down on us mere mortals. I only met Stan a handful of times, but I'll leave you with the first and most memorable memorable one. It was my first San Diego Comic Con. I was a kid. I had heard that Stan was gonna be there, so as soon as the doors opened, I ran to the Marble Booth Marvel booth to see his signing times and schedule. I arrived to find a huge amount of people in the line to enter a lottery to get his autograph. I entered it and later that day returned to learn that I was one of the very select few to win. I lined up with everyone else to get my book signed, and I had in my hands the first issue of X-Men from 1963. Yeah, be jealous, it's rad for him to sign. And when I got up to meet him, I was a mess. Shaking, I told him that I could never thank him enough for everything he had done for comics and for me. Stan looked up at me, smiled, and without missing a beat, said, Well, sure you can, try. I couldn't then stand, but I think I hope I can show you now. This one is for you, boss. Thank you from all of us for everything. And I was like, damn, bro, like this again, this is like these are these moments and these are these things that just I feel like make art such a um an incredible experience, bro. It's like I'm even, you know, I can even get like emotional reading this shit now. I just think that's so fucking cool. But what a great, great set of issues. Shout out to Donnie Cates, shout out to Stanley, shout out to the whole creative team on this, uh, on this year. Shout out to Tradmore, Dave Stewart, Clayton Cowells, everybody that was involved in this. Um, just an amazing one, bro. Go pick this shit up. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:30

Yeah, man. I it's it's just great stuff. Hey, like storytelling in general, such an important part of the human experience. This, you know, goofy little side quest of a podcast that Antony and I are doing is obviously mostly mostly for fun, and we're just out here having a good time with it. But it is, you know, reading stories, uh, thinking about uh art, visual art, uh, you know, comics actually touches on so many profound things. Um, and it's really cool when things can sort of get us introspective and and get us in our feels a little bit, and um really thinking about the legacy. And it's amazing thinking about the you know, Stan Lee, the legacy of Stan Lee and how much he meant to uh to so many people and how this medium of comics started as, you know, obviously still people look down on down on it a lot. I think back in the day, uh more justifiably so when it was just sort of cheap children's entertainment or whatever. Or at least it seemed like it didn't. I think to a certain extent it it was in the early, you know, it was in the early days in the in the you know, I don't know, 40s, 30s, 20s, whenever back when people were literally buying, you know, buying them for nickels and dimes from newsstands.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:49

Probably buying them for lessee with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:51

Right, you know, um versus it it's just cool to see that that uh it's cool to see where an art form as trivial as comics can go and uh how far it's come, and I'm sure it's gonna continue to grow and go further, and you know, it's cool for us comic novices to be be appreciating it.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:12

Yeah, yeah. We're getting to watch, we get to see, have seen, and we'll continue to see um you know an art form bloom, which I think is just so so cool. But anyway, uh this has been Silver Surfer Black. What a crazy read. You guys should go pick this one up. Um, I am emotionally exhausted from that that last little bit there, but this was crazy. Um go check us out kickback comics pod underscore pod on Instagram, all that kind of good stuff. Let's talk about it. Go read this one. Um, and thank you guys so much for listening. Peace everybody. Peace.