Behind KPop Demon Hunters with Production Manager Brett Salinas

Alexis and Natalie talk with Brett about soft skills in production management, his favorite moments working on KPOP DEMON HUNTERS, and his connection to some famous feet in Titanic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

I'm Alexis Peter. I'm Natalie John. Welcome to the production desk, a podcast about the people and process of animated production.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Hi, Alexis. Nat. Happy Friday. I I realize I say your name the same every time we do an intro, so I'm gonna try and work on changing it up. I always go, hi Alexis.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Are you gonna go like up in tone or sing it? Or what do you think? You know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

I hadn't thought about it. Hey. Hi, hello, hello Alexis.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Hey Nat. Oh God, am I saying good name the same every time? Actually, that's great. And we can just slug it in every time. We can stop greeting each other. I get grouchy when people message me first thing in the morning and they don't say good morning. They just go into what they want.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

The reason I gasped is because I'm discovering you're more of a night owl, and I'm not gonna call myself a morning person, but I am a lay-in-bed and text people in the morning person. Oh, I've noticed. I wake up and I immediately am like flooded with ideas for stuff. Lately for the podcast. This is so funny we're talking about this because I've been meaning to say, I hope your phone is on silent or whatever, because I just start messaging you right away in the morning about, oh my gosh, I had this idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I love it. Please don't even think twice. And I totally second that that I am more creative and my brain is spinning with ideas first thing in the morning. Also for work, if I'm in crunch and I just need to get through something really fast. It's like just go to bed, wake up early, just get it done first thing when you're just super fresh and bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

At first I thought you were like, I hate when people text me in the morning and I'm like, oh no, that's me.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Not at all. Just no, I'm always running late because of working out and cats. So I just apologize if there's a delay. Oh, to me?

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Oh my gosh, I don't care. For text, I don't need anything on like a certain time frame. If I need an answer quickly, I'm gonna be like, I need an answer quickly, or I'm gonna call you or something. In my mind, a text is text me back whenever, just for the record.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

That's good to know. I feel always a little cheeky if I'm, I guess in a word context, if I've like messaged someone on hangouts and then I've texted them. That's me being like, I need an answer, please respond to me on chat. That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

I feel like this could be a good topic at some point about communication at work. Yeah. Because everyone does have their pet peeve. Like when people don't say, Good morning, I'll bet you there are people who are like, I don't need a greeting, just tell me what you want. And it's totally interesting. It's always short, sweet, and effective, but just sometimes a period. I know you and I have a period as well. I've given up on using periods because the young people tell me I can't anymore. But there's so many different ways to communicate at work. It's kind of obnoxious when you think about it. It is. You can never go wrong with a gift. I agree. But I've met people who hate gifts.

unknown 3:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

I feel like they're dead inside. And they get the most gifts because people like to like oh, I'd fuck with that person too.

unknown 3:09

I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Really?

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Oh my gosh. I am so tired, Alexis, as I know you are too, because it's the end of the week. It is Friday after work. Also, after the first week of changing our clocks forward, and everyone's like a freaking zombie. It feels dumb to complain about it, but I don't know. It just messes with everybody. It does. Also, shout out to parents who have the extra burden of their kids won't go to bed and then they won't get up, and everyone's in a bad mood.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Also, pet parents, when you just said that, it made me realize I was like, Oh, I wonder if that's why my cats were extra nuts. Because they seem to sleep more this week and then they were going batshit crazy, keeping us up and banging the door.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, I could not get my dog out of bed. I was chatting people at work being like, I'm so sorry. I'm trying to get my dog to get up and go to the bathroom. This is so stupid. Oh, baby. So yeah, it's a sleepy week, but now it's the weekend. Oscar weekend. Very exciting. Obviously, this is coming out after the Oscars, so we don't know who won. So generic congratulations to all the Oscar winners.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

And just putting all the good vibes out there for all the winners and all the delicious Oscar food that we will be eating on Sunday and Bevy of Choice.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Do you always watch the Oscars every year?

SPEAKER_02 4:30

I do. I've loved the Oscars ever since I was a kid. I, as a nerdy kid in Massachusetts, made a binder that had my favorite Oscar dresses that I actually used to use for auditions to calm myself down. But I think it was also like aspirational at the time. It's cute. What was funny is while living in Sydney, Australia, and apologies to the past bosses who might be listening to this, I did pull sickies to watch the Oscars live. And I did take a few people with me each year to do so at my apartment with memosis on uh Monday morning at 10 a.m. And it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Similarly, as a kid, I loved the Oscars, loved them. And then as I got older, I was like, oh, I always try and see all the Oscar-nominated movies for best feature. And then I kind of lost interest. It just kind of once I took a step back and I'm like, who's in charge of voting for the Oscars? And uh it feels like so political. All that to say, if I were to get nominated for an Oscar, I'd be like, oh my God, this is amazing. I can't wait to go to the Oscars, right? I obviously think it's still would be really fun to be a part of. I'm excited for people I know whose movies got nominated. But yeah, I've become a little bit of an old curmudgeon about the Oscars. I like to see what people wear. I like keeping up with what happened during the show, but that's me.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

My mom and I have a running text chain during the show of commenting on dresses and jewelry. Anything that sparkles, we will react positively to. I guess it's like an annual tradition. An excuse to eat delicious food. But speaking of Oscars, we have a goal. We don't know if you will hit this, but we do want to try to talk to crew from every Oscar-nominated animated feature or short. So we will see if we can make that happen. What's kind of exciting is our guest today kicks off that series. Yay!

SPEAKER_03 6:28

And props to Alexis. I'm gonna give you all the credit. This was your idea. And I was like, that's a great idea. She's been making it happen so far. Without further ado, let's get into our episode with Brett Salinas, production manager from K Pop Demon Hunters.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

We are so excited that our guest is Brett Salinas, my production manager from Kpop Demon Hunters. Brett has also worked in animation for the past 17 years, 17 give or take. I have had the pleasure of working with him on three different projects, and he just makes work so much fun and is the person that you want on your team cheering you on and laying down the law when needed. Brett, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to be here.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

I didn't realize you guys had worked on three projects already together.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Yeah. So the first one was actually the one that I'm working with him on now, but it was something that we worked on, oh my God, 2021.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

It was 2021, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

For several months.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

So K-pop book ended by the same project with different names.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yes, exactly. That's so funny. That's so funny. That's cool. So it's very, very cool to have come full circle to be back with him on that show. So a question that we've been exploring, and I think we're gonna make this kind of a standard in every interview that we do, is we're really curious to hear how did you get your foot in the door within animation?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

It was completely by accident. I had moved out to LA, and my sister had a friend who worked in VFX and was helping Yayir Landau, who my listeners may know was the vice chairman of Sony for a while, who had left to start his own boutique startup animation studio. So I was expressly there to be the temp and helped them get set up. They had just gotten an office set up. And then it at the time I had moved out here to be a writer. That was my goal, which like looking back on it was never realistic. I don't know what.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Well, no, but you're wonderful and you write poetry.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Now I do, yes. At the time I was like, okay, I'm gonna charge in here with a bunch of specs and but I feel like as I worked as a temp or whatever I wanted to call it at the time for a few years, I really kind of fell in love with it. I guess what I like about animation is that it sort of scratches both sides of my brain in the sense that it is super technical and super creative at the same time. There's that nuance of the creative management of the artists, but also like the incredibly detailed and technical uh production side of things also.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

It is incredible that everything that you see on screen is something that someone designed or thought up, and it's beautiful. And if you're an art lover, it's so fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

I mean, that's what's so wonderful, but also so grueling about making it is that like I was talking to Alexis, you know, if you look at a movie where a scene takes place in a park, those trees in the background were those trees that they were just there when they scouted the set. But like in animation, every single pixel has to be a decision that was made that will transfer it into a final image.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah. When you're in the blue sky kind of phase, it's so fun to be able to think as big as you want, and then it is that kind of sobering realization as the budget keeps going down that you're like, oh, that we can't afford that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

The hammer always comes down at least once.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Or in the tree example, you're then getting into is the wind blowing? Do the leaves on the trees need to blow? How much? Not too much, just a little. It is really kind of insane how many details are discussed.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah. Is the light diffused through like the reeds of the trees, whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

In terms of your history, I was curious just to quickly ask, you mentioned you also did work in VFX.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Sort of. I so I worked on Mary Poppin's Returns in 2018. It came out in 2018. I think it started in 2017. So that was a hybrid show, it was managed by Disney Visual Effects, and there was a VFX studio that did some of the finishing work on what we were doing. And so there was sort of a crossover. We also outsourced some work from Pixel Mondo, which I don't think that's even there in Santa Monica anymore. So there's a little bit of crossover with VFX, but not a ton. I've never worked directly in VFX.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Got it. But that is like to you your hardest, craziest show.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Mary Poppins? Yeah. Oh, by a landslide. Yeah, that was rough. I just remember like we would be working and like certain nights, we were there till like truly three, four in the morning. And you get to the point where like the people were lining up at the club downstairs, and like our like time markers like, oh, the club is closing because people are collecting outside because the place just closed, and the sun would come out. It was just like this sort of like sad, bleak, sort of sobering progression of the night.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Oh, that's brutal. Did you ever think in those moments, like, no, I'm gonna go get a radically different job, or were you like, no, I like the chaos?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I think I kind of appreciated the challenge of it. At the time, it seemed like an unachievable task to get that thing finished, but we did and super proud of that's the most important thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

And how long were you on the show?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I remember I started July of 2017 and the movie came out in December of 2018. So probably like a year and change, now that I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, that's so interesting. Animation timelines are so long and VFX are so much kind of more condensed, which also means that the hours are just that much more bonkers consistently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

And in that case, too, it was only 20 minutes of footage because it was the 2D animated portion of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

So I feel like everyone has those those four stories back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

In a weird way, I'm glad it happened earlier in my career. Just because it like sort of forced me to establish some sort of sense of boundaries about you know what I am willing to do at my job. Like I don't think I would never do that again.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Yeah. I'm also just like too tired now to do that. When I think about late night, you know what I mean? I'm like, I don't, but I don't know if I could physically do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I know. I think I submitted a time card one week and the the HR person at this studio I worked for, and they were like, hey, you logged like 90 hours last week. Are you okay? And I remember being like, no, no, you're not.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah. I don't think I've told you this, Nat. When I was working at Prime Focus, we did the first 3D conversion for Clash of the Titans. And that was my first experience ever doing a hundred-hour work weeks. And I actually fell asleep behind the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Oh my God.

unknown 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

That was terrifying. I we were okay, but it was a very sobering moment.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

I'm curious, Brett, how do you like help set those boundaries at the beginning of a show now?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I think at the time I was also kind of struggling with delegating, which to be fair, this is a smaller studio, so there was no one really to delegate to. But I think just like creating a healthy workflow in the beginning by setting expectations of everyone on the crew and like making sure that everyone's workload is balanced, myself included, and just sharing the the duties that go into making a production happen in logical ways where everyone is sort of happy with the setup.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Good answer. That's a really good way.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Letting go of certain things that like at the time were sacred and precious, maybe that they didn't need to be.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

You've worked at kind of smaller studios and Sony being a bigger studio. Do you have a preference as to which you kind of prefer?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I have to say Sony is kind of the best of both worlds because I mean it is certainly a big studio in in terms of the budget and the resources attached to what you're doing, but it feels to me like a small studio. Like I thought it would be a much more jarring leap to go from these small boutique shops that were owned by, you know, like I'm directly reporting to the person who owns the company, basically. But Sony, I don't know, it feels like a community here, and I don't think it feels terribly corporate. It's nice to have the resources of a big studio, but have the culture of a small studio. I mean, as you know, like you're walking down the halls and the president Christine Belson's there and she's sending a text and like stops to say hi and asks about how my day was. And she's incredible. She's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Also, kind of going back to what you had mentioned a little bit ago, with you having a writing background, has working in animation helped you with your own storytelling with whatever writing that you're still kind of doing on the side?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Not directly, just because I feel like the style of writing that I was interested in sort of has changed since I've been working in animation. But I feel like having a writing background does, in a weird sort of abstract way, help with my job here.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Aaron Powell Oh, how so?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

I always say this like at every animated production, everyone grossly underestimates how long a script takes to write. And like you'll see this production schedule, and okay, well, it'll go away for three to four weeks and write a script. Never in a million years has that ever happened. Not that what I'm bringing to the table actually affects that in any way, but it's just sort of accounting, I guess, ahead of time for the inevitable delays that will come from the fluid writing process.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Aaron Powell Well, and you're mentally prepared. I think there's something about knowing this isn't gonna be as cookie-cutter, check-in-the-box as we'd all like it to be. It's yeah, the scoring process can be long and wacky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

And I would hope, and this is not like corroborated by anything, but that being of a writing background that I'd maybe be better to deal with writers, I don't know. Just in talking to them and dealing with them and appealing to them, who knows? But I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

But it's good because you have that context. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Brett is also, I will add, a wonderful scratch actor. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Which would suggest that I like doing scratch, which is not necessarily true.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

He's very good. He does not give himself enough credit.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

No, I do remember it was one of the earlier shows I worked on. The crew had scaled back to such a small group that at one point we were watching a scene back in edit, and there were five characters, and four of them were me talking to myself, and it was just like, what like ring of hell am I in? Just like listen to this.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Did you do different voices for them?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Do you have a favorite department that you've managed?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

If we're including backend departments, I'd probably say lighting, actually.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Really?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah. For no other reason than just like the superficial joy of seeing something that's complete and not complete, like, oh, now it's done, I can stop worrying about it. But I guess all these details are happening kind of in islands, but then they all converge in this one department, which is lighting. And just all of a sudden you see something that is properly complete, like, oh, that is the vision come to life. And that's at that stage where you can just like play with the fun details and like interesting colors, and it's just sort of a fun department to see sort of realize.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

I would add, especially when you first start to get into it. I know for me it feels like, oh, right, this is it. This is what the movie's gonna look like. A real movie.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I mean, it can be frustrating too, because it's like, oh, animation broke the rig, by the way, so his shoulder's sticking out from his back, and you paint that out. And like, okay, great. Right away.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Aaron Powell What are some underrated soft skills you think are helpful in production management?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Well, I think soft skills are like by far the most important quality you can have in production. There's so many things you can't really teach about that. And there's so many like little tiny you read someone's expression and go, ooh, that didn't land. I know that. I have to follow up about that, or like, uh, that ruffled a feather, or I need to pause on that one. I think also, too, just like knowing when to speak and knowing when to be quiet is so important.

unknown 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Like sometimes people just need to speak and you need to let them speak, and not everything they say is actionable, and you just have to absorb, you know, the spirit of what they're saying in a slightly more abstract way, and then follow up later when there's more clarity. It is a weird exercise and discretion to know when to butt in.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

I think I've heard you say this quite a lot that so much of the job is personality management. Yes. And kind of tailoring the day-to-day based on who you're interacting with, which is so challenging at times.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, I think it's like really just kind of reading social cues and like having the muscle memory of like when things don't go well to just know when to pivot. And yeah, I think everyone needs to hear information in different ways to be able to process it and you know be successful executing it.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

He's also got a great poker face, which I know I don't have because I people are like, what's wrong, Alexis? And I'm like, damn it, what is my face doing?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, you'll say give her a piece of information, she'll barf across the table and be like, What?

SPEAKER_03 17:05

I also have a good poker face, and I'm jealous of people who don't, because I think that sounds really liberating to be like everything you're feeling just comes across.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

It's also too the little detail you give to people, it's sort of like tailored to that person.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

I think some people you can give just the, you know, bird's eye view kind of glimpse into what's happening, and that's all they need to move on. People get bogged down by the details sometime, and you can kind of spare that with certain types of people.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

So agree. And I know it's interesting as well when you kind of are watching people either uh absorb what you're asking them or talking to them about, or you just see it like glazing over and you're like, no.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Oh, that's a thing too, just like knowing when people aren't listening to you.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Unfortunately, like a good amount of the time.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

I've never really thought about that. But you're right. When you're like, yeah, we're gonna have to talk about this again because no one's listening. No one wants to be in this meeting right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah. Like this sounds so stupid and cliche, but like hearing what people say and knowing what they mean is like obviously two different operations sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

No, it's pretty profound.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

It's I'm curious what you wish more people knew about how animated films are made.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I feel like I wish people knew that not every creative decision comes from the directors or filmmakers of that movie. For better or for worse, it's a process that is done by committee at the end of the day. And there's so many budgetary things that shape how movies are made. And like, oh, that finale was kind of unfulfilling. It's like, yeah, well, we contracted for 85 minutes and we were over, and that was the only place that was really viable to cut. There was more material there, we just couldn't make it because it's extraordinarily expensive and it's a million dollars a minute to make an animated movie. So that's it is not always at the point at the fault of the person who is actually making creative decisions, is my point, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

That's a phenomenal answer. And I think if any directors listen to this, they're gonna be like, yeah, yes. We don't always get to make all the choices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

I know we are going to be tailoring some episodes to people who are job hunting, or some of our audience will be people who may be wanting to break into the industry. So when you are looking through numerous different resumes, I guess what are you looking at specifically that makes someone stand out from just having so many per role on your desk at a given time?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

For me, direct experience in the job is sort of secondary to personality for me. Just because I think anyone can get the appropriate experience if there's people who are willing to mentor them. But I think personality compatibility is so much more important for the long-term health of a crew. Like specifically with production people. With artists, it's a different story. So I feel like anything that has gives some sort of glimpse into someone's personality by the way they craft the resume, if there's like some cheeky reference that, you know, is not totally like relevant details, but it's sort of shows you the kind of person they are, or like if they include things that are their hobbies in the resume that are sort of interesting and worth following up on. I don't know. I just something that shows that they have some sort of personality that they can bring to the table that is not just buttoned-up professional work experience. You know, if you send someone's resume, like, oh, they like they speak Dutch, it's like, oh, niche, how'd that happen? Like, what's your story?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

I'm gonna add that to my resume now, just uh see how many more bites I get.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

That is the key in this business, honey. Learn Dutch.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

What has been the biggest surprise for you from jumping from associate production manager to production manager?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Weirdly enough, I think the biggest surprise was that I assumed that overall like the scope and the duties of that job would be like getting to the bigger, heavier lifting stuff, which it is. But in a weird way you deal with like much more granular stuff too. I'd study the calendar for a good chunk of my day, for example, just to make sure meetings are the right people are invited and the title is not misleading. Yeah, yeah. Just the weird minutiae of little things that other people might overlook or that you know might be confusing to people, just having to keep an eye on that. Or, you know, like where to get Korean barbecue for Alexis's birthday next week.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I do love Korean barbecue. Right. Yeah. How does it feel going from managing coordinators to managing managers?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I actually kind of find it easier. I mean, again, when you're hiring people, use staff with that in mind. The people you trust, people you can rely on, people and even if they're new to the job and it requires a little bit of mentoring or extra guidance, just knowing that there is that trust and support system with that person. And I for whatever reason, at a manager level, I think it's easier to sustain. It requires a little less direct management, I guess I should say. Again, it's more about the personality, more about the approach to how the department should be run than it is about the tiny little day-to-day details. Nice. Not that the details aren't incredibly important. I'm just not to diminish or impugn what the coordinators are doing.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

No, it's a really good point. There's so many various ways to do the same thing. So it is kind of, I guess, that balance of giving people the room to work in the most effective way for them and make sure you're steering them in the direction you need them to go.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah. I feel like on the production management side of things, it's sort of you do a lot of the work upfront and like hiring the right people and setting up the right workflows in the beginning. And so like the heavy lifting for me is in the beginning, well, and then also at the end, I guess to an extent. But the day-to-day is a little easier to have them kind of run on their own.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

That's a great, great answer. These are all great answers. Yeah. Yeah. You're passing this test.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

I won't apologize for being exemplary, but it's going to make it very hard for the organization. Well, Nat, should we roll into K pop lands?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Yes. And I want Say to both of you, congrats for working on an Oscar nominated movie.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

How does that feel?

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Oh, me for oh get in there. You know, it's so exciting. Like it doesn't feel real. Everyone has had such a unique experience on the film for me. I came in at the last kind of chunk year working with these people around the clock to finish the film, and it was so cool to be able to focus on like the musical sequences. And I'm a musical theater nut, so it was my dream movie to work on in some ways. And I just remember dancing a lot in the back of lighting reviews. Brett would catch me sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Dancing alone, just like an old hippie at a concert.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yeah, we'd be in a lighting review. We look back at Lexus is doing like a round off back hand spray in like the top tier of the sweatbox.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Guys, it was so dark in that theater. And sometimes after a lot and freezing, and you're like warming up. You're also trying to just like stay sharp because lighting reviews often after lunch, you need coffee and sugar to stay rare and a go. It's so crazy to work on so many things that you have no control over the final product. And it's so bizarre when people do see something you've worked on. It's very exciting. So over to you, Brad.

unknown 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Well, we talked during K-pop that just it really does make a huge difference when you're really invested in the material that you're working on. And like this was very my kind of movie. I think it was very your kind of movie, which is not to say other things that you know I've worked on weren't, but I don't know. I felt really especially invested in this particular project just because the material itself.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

And the female-driven storyline, the badass women, especially passing the Bechel test and being so authentic.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Mostly passing the Bechtel test.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yeah, so that was experiencing. So yeah. Brett and I watched the movie with the crew the night it came out at our director's house in all different languages, which was fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I think Russian was the most insane. Uh we decided we're just like casually watching, but like drinking and eating. So just like cycling through all the different dubs over the course of like four hours. Tagalog was also pretty wild.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, and we got some cute photos in our production jackets. And we and honestly, we thought that was it because like, okay, it came out. Yeah, you don't know. You don't really know if when something's gonna be a hit. Yeah. Exactly. It's so cool to see it take on a life of its own.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Which I kind of appreciated at that time too, because like the expectations were sort of off. It wasn't like, oh my god, how's it gonna perform? And so like at the time when it came out, it was just like a really kind of joyous moment to be able to. And it was also just so hard to make. So like the fact that it was done and we were watching it on TV, I'm like, great.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Right? Right. We like we did it. That's it. And then it blew up. Do you also like musicals, Brett?

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I do, yeah, yeah. I grew up in a musical household. Like my parents would be playing like chess or sunset boulevard pretty much 24-7 when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Do you like musicals? I do like musicals, but I'm not like a nerd about it.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Oh, okay. All right. Wow, judgment.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Oh no, I sounded so no, again, I'm jealous. I because I'll have this conversation where I'm like, yeah, I love musicals. And then someone will reference something, and I'm like, oh, well, I don't know what that is. And they're like, well, it's pretty well known. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

There are like four billion musicals though. Like, even I don't like purport myself to know everything now.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Thank you. Thank you for the save.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

No, chess is great. It's the two men from ABBA wrote a musical in what 86? Like mid to late 80s. Oh. It's called chess, like the game. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

It's about the Cold War?

unknown 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Saying it on out loud is ridiculous. It's like this high-stakes chess competition in Bangkok, and there's like a prisoner of war involved.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

The music's so good. And if you love ABBA, I do love ABBA. I mean, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I'm gonna watch it and report back.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

I asked that because I wanted to know what your favorite song from the movie was from K-pop.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Oh, this is such a cop out. Golden is my favorite song, and it was from the second we heard it. It just feels like a pop song for the ages, and like I go nuts for that shit.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Okay, which your second favorite?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

I think how it's done, the one from the playing scene. It has some of my favorite lyrics in the movie as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

I feel like I'm on my own little island where I'm like, does anyone like Free?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Oh, Free's my third favorite.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

At least it makes the top wrong. Also, I feel like I cut you off, Brett. You're starting to talk about golden.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Oh no. I mean, it is an interesting song, as is well documented by now. It's sort of the I want song, for lack of a better word. Like it's the you know, part of your world. And yes, it's thematically interesting, but it's just such a good pop song. It just makes me happy.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Yeah, it's fun. They're all bangers.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah. I will say though, I would always survey the crew towards the end about which song was their favorite. And every song showed up with equal frequency. There was no like, oh, 80% of the crew like Golden, and like 5% liked Soda Pop. Like everyone kind of liked it, all of them.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

The first time seeing the guys walk down the alley and the button pops off and the abs. I just, I lost my shit. I loved it so much.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

No, that scene is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

I'm also like a little dead to it now because I think that was the second scene, technically, that we lit. So like I've just seen it the most.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

What was the first scene?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Gear up was what it was called. It's the really quick montage of them putting on the leather sort of fighting gear. With the kaka. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like an eight-second scene.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Brett, do you have any favorite shots from the movie? You know what? We should ask people this question and take a shot. Doesn't that sound like a fun second?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

That does seem like the only option. Well, okay, there's one shot in the very, very end that I love, and mostly because I remember Wendell Dalitt, I believe he painted that one, did a lighting key. It's when like all of the people's voices kind of converge and become this kind of buttressing beam of light that goes towards Rumi when she's about to fight Gima. And it's just that wide shot of Gima in the background and like all these iridescent streams of light heading towards Rumi. And it's just like, ooh.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

And now here we are on this podcast talking about your Oscar-nominated movie, K-pop Demon Hunters.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

So Alexis's point from earlier, too, just like it does feel very surreal. And like part of that is because I have horrible imposter syndrome at all times. You do these projects in sort of a vacuum, and even creatively, you can't really see the forest from the trees sometimes because like when you're in the Zhuzh on it, you're like, is this good? I don't know. You're too close to the material to really know. Again, you're on this island, and then when the movie comes out, it's like, is this really that popular? Like, is it just my algorithm? It's just like giving me stuff because it knows I worked on it, or because you know I've been searching for it. It never fully hit me that this is like the sensation that it is.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Agreed. We were at a game at crypto the other night, and Golden came on being at the Super Bowl. And Golden came on. It's bonkers. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I know I'll go out with friends of mine and like people ask what I do, and I'll tell them that I worked on K-pop, and people ask for selfies, like for their daughters. I'm just like, it's really bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Actually, a friend in Germany, she just told me her son, they're in a podcast class, and I believe Max is around 11.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Wow, coming for your gig.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

I I know. Does he do editing? Does he do podcast editing? Max and Hamburg. I know we might need to get him on the show. But he's totally doing a segment on K-pop. Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

I know. My sister lives in Spain, and like her French neighbors begging for swag. So she likes to call me and be like, can you please, please, like give me a hat or something? They're dying for it.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Well, I like hearing that people are excited to talk to production staff on the movie. Because a lot of time that's like a disappointment. You know, it's like, oh, that's what I did.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

You don't draw? Yeah. The most random question, but I think it's like one of the most fascinating random bits of trivia about you.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Your sister. Do you want to talk about her cameo on Titanic?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Oh my god, this is so niche. Yes. My sister was a dancer and actress, and she was in Titanic as one of the dancers in like this third-class steerage party scene. That's right. Anyway, there's the shot, if you recall, where Kate Winslit stands up on her tippy toes as a way to like impress the commoners or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

And that is actually my sister's feet because I forget why, but she was swapped out for my sister at the last minute.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

That's so cool. That's one of the coolest bits of trivia I've ever heard about somebody.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

And she had like a like an acting reel, and the last like the last part of the reel was like this slow motion shot of her feet, just like ascending full frame. Like ending with a bang.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Wow. I thought you'd love that. I have nothing to follow that. I feel like that's the story we end this episode on.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Do you have a favorite memory from working on K-pop?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I don't know if it was one singular memory, but I remember the first like day or two we were on the mix stage. I'd worked on like smaller studios before this. Being on the sound stage was really wild. And I'm I'm not even sure why. It's just like it felt like you were in like a you know Blu-ray behind the scenes clip in real life. To be realistic, also, like at that time, we were mostly done with the movie. Once it gets to the mix and the DI, your work is mostly done. So I could kind of just relax and watch this mix be done.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

It is fun seeing everything come together.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah, yeah. And our executive music producer Ian Isendreth was out from New York, and it was just cool because he mixed all the songs. And it was just a very cool, interesting kind of part of the process.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Before we get to the end of episode question, and this is something I I want to ask you for the first time, Nat, as well. From a production standpoint, do you have whether be a producer or just a production person that you would be like a bucket list to work with that person?

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Well, I've already gotten Alexis Wolf Jacobson. Check.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Oh, stop it.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

There's a producer I worked with earlier on when I was in animation named Lisa Pool, who in my mind I fancied her like my mentor at the time. But I've not worked with her in years, and I would love to work with her again. She was a lovely person to be around at all times.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

That's awesome. I'm just gonna go with what's coming to mind, but I love Lisa Hannawalt, who was the production designer on Bo Jack Horseman and creator of Tuka and Birdie, which I loved.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

And I just love her art so much. I think she's so funny and odd, and I would love to work with her. Maybe she should do a feature. Lisa Hannawalt, are you listening? Well, wait, what's Alexis's answer? Yeah. Oh, I think you've told me, but sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

For me, it would be Kathleen Kennedy.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

That woman is responsible for so many of my favorite movies, and I adore her so much. I apologize. I am not naming animation specific people.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yeah. I would also love, I don't know how realistic this will ever be, but animated horror is something I've always wanted to see more of. And it does exist. It's you know incredibly niche, obviously. But uh there's this movie called The Wolf House that I love. I forget the name of the studio that did it. Or Chilean, Peruvian.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

They did the animated sequence in Bo is Afraid, the Ariaster movie. Anyway, I'd love to work on like an indie animated horror movie at some point. I think that'd be an exciting thing to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

That sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Although I don't know if my skill set would transfer to what would need to be involved in making a movie like that, but who knows?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

But that's the thing. Like, we're producing a podcast. You could totally do that. You would ask get that.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

But I don't speak Spanish, so that makes no sense. Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

You'd hire someone who can if you're translating.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, I can kind of speak Spanish. That sounds also like.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

So we are ending every episode with a different production question, and one that I thought was very funny. So asking you both, what is written on a sticky note that you refuse to throw away?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

It's not written, but there's a sticky note from um 2019, 18. It was an animator who drew me as the white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland. Oh. Because I was always so stressed. It was like me like, you know, sweating with the stopwatch or whatever. Probably not like a flattering thing to receive, I guess, technically, but I don't know. I really like that. It's still in my home office rather.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Oh, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

It is like totally faded, like it's like sepia colored by now.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Nat, how about you? I don't throw any post-its away, is the problem. Like I'm somebody who writes things on post-its, and then there's just piles of post-its everywhere. So I don't have like, ah, this is my affirmation I'm putting on my wall.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

It's like live, laugh, love, big old like yellow sticky note right on the printing computer.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

My cat at home keeps trying to eat my post-it, but it's for Brett actually, because I kept forgetting on my time card to add coding. Is there anything we want to do for a wrap-up with Brett?

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, you two are gonna perform Golden.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Right? Yeah, like we rehearsed.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

I've warmed up, I'm off bug.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

I'm like so ready to go as this backup dancer.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I've also been listening to the demos for Golden a lot recently. It's been on rotation fairly often at my house the last couple months. Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

It's also really good to run to. As for all the runners out there, how it's done is my favorite, I'll just say for my thank you so much for coming on and talking through your career, advice, words of wisdom, all the things.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Thank you, yes. Very honored to be here.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Thanks for making it fun for us and congrats again on the Oscar nomination for K-pop. I think we did it.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Thank you, readers.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Okay, I was thinking after listening to the episode back, the question when we were like, who would you want to work with? Not necessarily in animation, then it was making me think of who we would want to have on our podcast. And you know who we haven't talked about in a while, but I want to put it out there. I feel like our end goal should be. I know this isn't a production person, but Abby Jacobson, the actress, because if people don't know this already, Alexis Jacobson looks like her twin sister. You don't sound the same, you look like twins, and your last name is the same. And I feel like it would be so fun for you two to be in the same room together. The episode could be like voicing animated characters. We'll make it work, but I feel like we should track her down. That's my personal goal.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

That would be the coolest thing ever. Oh, we should. Abby Jacobson has been taunting me, and I say that with love to her. But I worked on Ninjago, where she was one of our voice actors, and she was very funny. It was a great voice cast. And I was at the premiere, and Accord and I at the time made a bet. My end of the bet was to be like, hi, Abby, we might be related. We do have the same last name and we look like each other. Maybe we're separated birth. I don't know. And there was a moment at the premiere where she was walking towards me, and I had that moment of like, this is it. Are you gonna do it? Should or get off the pot? And I totally choked. I'm like, I'm gonna get thrown out of the premiere. She's not gonna want to talk to me. She's gonna think I'm a fucking nut job. So I didn't say anything. People are so sweet. I've got it from a lot of people. I was running and someone pulled over in their car and I was like, oh God, am I about to get kidnapped? And they were like, Are you happy, Jacobson? I'm like, no, I'm not. What the hell?

SPEAKER_03 36:02

And they were like, damn, we were gonna kidnap you, but you're not famous.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

So to have her on the show would be the most surreal, coolest thing ever. You've been listening to The Production Desk. We are our own producers. Outro by Marcus Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

If you have a moment, we'd love a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find the production desk on Instagram and Facebook. For any episode ideas, please reach out.