A Career in Animation Production: Emily Wilson from Pixar’s Oscar-nominated Elio

Alexis and Natalie talk to Emily Wilson about her unconventional path to Pixar, the key soft skills in animation production management, and the very serious business of perfecting an alien drink in ELIO. Plus, Alexis reveals the extremely important job she was assigned while catering Pixar’s UP premiere.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I'm Alexis Davidson. I'm Natalie DeJock. Welcome to the Production Deck, a podcast about the people and process of animation production.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Here we are, Alexis, recording our intro. End of the week. It's the weekend Saturday. Yes. And I don't want to complain about being tired, but I'm going to complain about it. I know. And I'm so right there with you.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

And I just want to say we have we're doing five intros of saying hello to one another. And I think in this last take, which probably will be the circle take, we did not even say hi. So that's where we're at mentally right now, guys. But we're here and we're excited for this week's episode. And yes, yes, it's really fun. I really like our guests. She's a blast.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I saw Nat last week in person. Oh, yeah, that was a big deal. I realize I don't know if people understand why that's such a big deal. And there's another clip I'm gonna post about us talking about it. But Alexis and I live on the other sides of town, which if you live in LA, you get it, right? If one person's on the west side and one's on the east side, like forget it. You're not gonna see each other. And our studios are not close either, so we don't see each other in person that often.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

We have been also rescheduling our dinner since I've been back from Australia, and we've not made it happen yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Because I'm so tired. You're busy and I'm tired. Well, I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I am in Screening Crunch. We're in it. It's happening. It's happening, man. Not a lot of sleep at the moment, sadly.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Screening crunches are hard. I forget how hard they can be. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of late nights, it's a lot of listening and watching the same stuff over and over, and everyone going, is this still good? Which is why I'm glad I'm in the art department. This go around, which I may have mentioned is my first time because I'm usually story and or edit. So weird to be like when we are in a screening crunch, to be just like an observer on the outside, you know, because it doesn't affect me in the same way it does in the other departments. So yeah, I send you good vibes and luck and all the things.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

It was very fun seeing you at the office last week, though. It was wonderful to like show you around and introduce you to some of my crew. Yeah, that was really fun. People are very shocked to see us together in person, which I find entertaining. I think we're more shocked.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

I feel like we're like, we're together in the same building. And I think people are like, Aren't you friends in podcasts? We go to dinner often. Yeah. Like, no, we live so far away. But yeah, that was exciting.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, that was the highlight of the week. I have started talking into my phone in an audio note, which is also a strange thing to go from like the social norms where normally you call someone and leave a voicemail, but voicemails don't seem to exist anymore. So audio notes. I know one of my close friends in London, she and I just talk to one another through WhatsApp audio. And now I've started talking in that also nickname NDJ, because I do have two Natalie's in my life. The other one also actually works with NDJ at Netflix, but I feel like I'm a crazy person babbling to NDJ. I'd love that I'm talking about you in the third person as I'm looking at you. Going to work and just talking through the podcast and notes and ideas and just like what's happening, and like be like, we really want to put this on the podcast, but fuck, we can't talk about it. Shit.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

I know, man. Someone made a joke once about like we need like an after hours version where we get to, I don't know, name names. You know what I mean? Like, really spill the tea.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Every production person's got so much tea to spill.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

You know what we could do? We could host, we wouldn't record this, but we could host like a prodstaff hangout at like a brewery, and that's the like after hours podcast chat. We could all sign NDAs for each other, like what what happens at this brewery? Yeah, oh my god. You do not share these stories. You're saying essentially production desk fight club. Yeah, minus the punching. Vocal punching. I'm in. Well, you heard it here first. Production desk fight club. Some sort of in-person gathering. Details to come.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Okay, so we are now nine episodes in, almost to a little milestone, I would say. And I just wanted to pause and reflect on that. Part of me feels like it's only a few episodes in, but we've spent almost a year now working on this, and I just wanted to celebrate. I so appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

It's so surreal to be almost at the big double digit 10. Yeah. Roman numeral X. Yeah, I guess like in reflecting over the past year, what's kind of been some of your big takeaways or what have you learned?

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Well, I've learned a lot about editing and audio engineering and the technical aspects, which is hard and fascinating. And I think we keep getting better at it. You're like a pro now. Oh, dude. You're a pro. I'm getting there. Learning about social media is really interesting. You've been killing it with that.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Seriously. You're so I haven't, but it's getting better. It's getting better. I just want to say you have been doing such a great job at the social media component. And I know you and I are not thrilled about having to do more video-based content and getting on different kinds of platforms that you and I wouldn't ordinarily be on. But you know, it'll be interesting to see kind of what comes out of that. It is kind of exciting. So one of the things that we talk about in this interview is just how much time that people can spend on perfecting a certain shot and acknowledging where we're at. I think you were just, if you want to kind of jump in in terms of how we lit the fire, they kind of the lesson there.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Yeah. Just to wrap up what we've learned with doing this podcast, I think my biggest personal takeaway is sometimes you have to just do the thing. You have to just jump in and do it. And I'm proud of us for that. Because we did, as production people, spend time making our outlines and brainstorming and doing our research and having our spreadsheets. And then at some point we were like, let's just fucking release an episode, man. And I'm so glad we did, because that's where we learned, right? I think sometimes you have to just jump in and do the thing. I mean, look, this isn't news. Like how many little quippy affirmations are out there about like feel the fear and do it anyway, or rip the band-aid off and do things before you're ready. And it's cliche, but true. Because I feel like we jumped in before we were ready and a long-winded way of saying, I'm glad we just decided to do it at some point, even though we didn't feel super buttoned up and like we put our perfectionism aside, I think is what I'm saying to make this happen.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, and I think honestly, it comes back to having a deadline. It was like right around Valentine's Day, and we were like, we just have to do it. We have to stop overthinking. It's never gonna be perfect enough. We're gonna keep iterating. It was just nice to have that fire lit under our butts to get it done and just to let go.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

It's funny, you keep saying fire, and I think for me, I keep thinking of jumping into a pool. Well, you know, I'm a mermaid, so I do like that analogy.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I didn't know that. Oh one thing that I think has been really cool in the past few episodes is you and I will do like vocal warmups, and but together before we get on, it's been really energizing and it's been fun. And I do wish that you and I had a lot more time to devote to getting that beautiful vocal resonance.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Oh, I wish we had a solid hour for vocal warmups. I was telling Alexis before we started recording, we both have a little bit of a performing background. Like you have a theater background, I have an improv background. But more recently, last summer, I took like a proper beginner's acting class. And my big takeaway from that was like, holy crap, vocal warmups, like those silly exercises, change your voice dramatically. I was like, my voice sounds amazing. And so sorry, you guys aren't getting the full effect.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

You're getting my voice from the back of my throat versus the placement at the tip of my tongue. Yeah. Oh god, I know. I Shakespeare class with in England, man. That was what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

You took a Shakespeare class in England?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, it was like my background for theater is Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

I'm learning about Alexis in real time. I did not know that. That's fascinating. Yeah. I studied a lot of Shakespeare as an English major. Amazing. Also, it was just like a nerdy reader in high school. I enjoyed it from the literary side.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Huh. Fascinating. I don't think I knew that you were an English major. Oh my gosh, you guys, we don't know each other all. Oh my God, what is happening?

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Okay, let's let's get into it. Let's talk about our guest. Emily Wilson has been at Pixar for nine years. She works there as a department manager in production. She was on the Oscar-nominated Elio, and we talk a lot about that on the podcast. And I don't want to get too much into her path there because she talks about it, but she I'll just mention she worked on the Jon Stewart show and then NBC Nightly News for a bit before she ended up at Pixar. So she also has, like most people, a really interesting career path to animation. You were the one that had the connection to her.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, she's part of our Oscar series. We were connected by a colleague and she was uh a lot of fun to chat with.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

She's so fun. Yeah, she's another one where I was like, let's be friends. I know, me too. I know that jerk. Once Alexis heard that this she lived near wine tasting, it was like, okay, we're flying out there and we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Oh, absolutely. Girls' weekend, ladies' weekend, or maybe we could do the production desk Northern California edition.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Well, without further ado, here is our chat with Emily Wilson.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Welcome, Emily. It is so good to have you here. I am so intrigued about your career trajectory. I would say Natalie, in getting to know her over the past year and I are political and we love political satire. And you started on the daily show with John Stort as an assistant editor and associate editor. Kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

I started at Ponent actually as an intern and then got the daily show as just a regular production intern through that. And then the editing thing kind of just came up. I wouldn't really even call it a career change. It was just they had a lot going on. I was very much in intern mode of take every opportunity offered. And they said, Who knows the avid? And I'm like, I've taken a glass of map. Raise my hand and it was freelance a few hours a week. I definitely wouldn't compare it to anything that in animation assistant editors do. It was more like assistant editor assistant. Um, very just like more amateur, but it was a cool experience for sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

That is such a cool start on Conan. Wow. So it looks like after the Daily Show, then you went to NBC News.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah. It was weird. Yeah, it is, it is crazy. Looking back on it, I was in New York for the Daily Show. I happened, huge fan of John Stewart Salem. And like a month in, month and a half in, he announced his retirement coming up. It turns out it was fake, don't worry. Um but I didn't think he would at the time. And so when I was wrapping up my internship, is when he was leaving. So I stuck around and did freelance PA work and the assistant editing stuff. But it was a big transitional time, and I didn't know what I was gonna do. And that's when the NBC opportunity came up, and they were just a few blocks away in Rockefeller Center, and Rockefeller Center was like a big girl for me. It's like, whoa, yeah. But I thought I tried out iconic. And it was a way for me to keep freelancing. But also I thought maybe this will be it for me longer term too. And I did a year there and found out maybe not yet. Maybe I really want to go back to entertainment. But it was really cool. It was an early show, the show before the Today show. And because it was overnight and small team, there's a ton of opportunities there and also more editing opportunities too. So take that college avid class, right? Wow. What were your hours then? It was 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. Oh, brutal. But it was great. It was great because you get off work and you could go brush tickets for Broadway because that's when people were starting to line up. Oh. It all was fun. I was in my early 20s. I didn't need to sleep. Wouldn't do that now. But yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Wow. I can't imagine working for the news.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

It was a crazy year too. That was an election year. That was Brexit, the Olympics, 2016 election. Oh boy. That was amazing. There's a lot going on. How long were you in that role? It was a year contract. I had been in New York for two years at that point, and I'm from California, and it got to the point where it was like, I'm gonna do entertainment industry. There's a lot more opportunity in California. So I left that November, right after the election, and was home with my family for the holidays. And then January 2nd, Pixar called. So timing was great because I had no job lined up at all. No plans.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Whoa, I feel like this goes against everything that Natalie and I have been talking about on the show. Because we always ask everyone, how did you get your foot in the door with an animation? And we were convinced that you needed to know somebody, but you're saying you got a cold email, then they didn't know what?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Well, yes and no. I did have a connection to Pixar, but I will heavily caveat that because I know it's always like a bummer. I like feel I consumed every bit of media listening for this question when I started out. And when you hear a connection, it's like, oh, I don't have any. And I didn't have any, I didn't have any connections. I had always kind of had Pixar in the back of my mind, like in high school. I still remember what their website looked like at that time. And every little tab and like was always going there. But when I got to Conan, it was just this first summer, and I remember somebody leaving in the middle of my internship, someone who worked there to go to Pixar. And I was like, oh, I'll remember that. And then years later, we reconnected and he passed along my resume. But then I didn't hear anything for two years. And I was like, well, that didn't turn out to be anything. And it just so happened the recruiter held on to it for the payroll for that one. Wow. But I'll also say for anyone still like thinking, ah, that's a connection. I had applied for the internship as well. And they did reach out for an interview, but I'd already committed to the daily show at that point. So I didn't interview. And I was like, well, now they're gonna blacklist me. So I do think that they read their applications and don't just do connections only. So there's hope.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

No, that's cool. The fact that years had gone by and they called like that's kind of wild.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah. If I had still been like mid-New York, I don't know what I would have done. Like just drop mid-lease, like mid-everything. Like I don't, I don't know what I would have done. But the timing was really crazy. And what was that role that they were hiring for? That was for a coordinator role. Now it's Wild West, but at the time, that was pretty unusual when I started that it really felt like intern to PA to coordinator to manager trap. And I know all of our terms are different at all of the companies we work at, but for us it's department manager equals associate production manager. Is that Sony?

SPEAKER_04 16:39

And correct.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

And then equals productions too at Netflix.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

We kept talking about making like a glossary because it's insane that the roles are called such different things at different studios.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it they're all different. But yeah, so I came in as a coordinator, so I got to jump a few rungs. Because at that point I'd also had some experience. So worked out great.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

That's so cool. And it's so fascinating hearing how everyone got their start because it is so different, and it's just so cool kind of hearing the in. I'd be so curious though, was there anything that you did, whether it be on Conan or Jon Stewart's show or the news? How did you go from doing that, which is like a very different scope? And I know it sounded like you may have not wanted that long term, especially news-wise. You wanted to go more, I would assume, art or film-based or entertainment-based. Was there something that happened that led you to kind of that direction?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

I think the reason why I ultimately left was it was gonna have to clear such a high bar to beat me like not going into the entertainment industry because that's what I'd wanted to do for so long. But after I got hired at Pixar, my hiring manager said it was the news that made her want me because she had worked in the news, and there was actually a lot of similar skills. And that's the you know, good thing about production management is there's skills in a lot of different jobs that aren't necessarily specifically anim that apply. You have to be super detail-oriented and really fast responses and flexible, and there's a lot that carries over. And, you know, 3D animation is relatively young industry. Pixar's around 40 years, but most people at Pixar have long histories of other jobs, and you never know which one's gonna speak to the person that's hiring you, and they'll know what you did. And I don't know if if I hadn't done NBC, I don't know if Pixar would have brought me on. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

I like that she recognized that. Well, like you said, she had worked in the news too, but recognized that that would transfer because I think it's easy to brush it off if it's like, well, they don't have animation specifically, you know, but makes sense. The news is crazy, like very fast-paced. It's crazy. One of our favorite questions to ask is do you have a favorite department that you've managed in animation?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

It's gonna sound like a cop-out, but I've been around a few departments now. I don't know if I mold a little bit to like the personality of each department. It does feel like every department has such a different personality. And then also like Pixar is a little different than a couple of the studios, and that were all under one roof. So you're really working with each team. I feel like different sides of myself have come out on different teams. Like I worked in the animation department, and I feel like I was very extroverted on that team, very social art. It was more like one-on-ones. And like, I know it sounds like a high school like click movie, but it's true. And it really just was where my head was at in the moment. And you don't always get to pick fully, but there's times where you're like, I really want to get in there and like edit. That's a huge time commitment. And the most hours that I've done on a department, and sometimes you're into that, and sometimes you really want to get your hands dirty hours-wise, but then other times you're fine with being more team-based, and it really just depends on the moment and mood that it's just so so different. It's hard to pick.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

I love imagining each department as like a character from high school. It's so true. Very mean girls, right? Yeah, I was thinking of that actually. I feel like animators would be the jocks. I'm trying to think like what would the story artists would be the nerds?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Maybe not maybe a grade A student.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

They're all kind of nerds in a way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Right. Yeah. Animation's the jocks, and everyone else is the nerds.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Kind of moving on from that, what would you say are some underrated soft skills that you think are helpful in production management? All of them.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

You know what? I actually, when I was listening to you guys' past episodes, and I loved the part where there's people imitating what product management sounds like. And I was like, oh, we all sound like the whole um, it's totally okay if you can't like can you but I'm cool. Everyone else is not cool, but me, I'm gonna say I'm fine and I'm not gonna go to my office. This is not like totally based on my self-worth. Like it's it's fine. I have healthy separation, but no, yeah, they see you right through that, right? Um totally do that and think that I'm the coolest manager ever.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Oh, by the way, you're uh like the second person this week that has mentioned that. Part of that episode about the impressions. So I feel like we should tickle for more impressions.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Felt very seen in an uncomfortable way.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

How do I mix it up? I would say probably the thing that I've needed to develop the most and will be a lifelong thing. I think this falls in soft skill category, is the importance of being able to calibrate giving bad news and recognizing that it's bad news. Not going too far either way with being too positive, but also not too negative where it's like hitting morale, but also not too positive where they're like, oh, we're not gonna believe you. And it's not always the same level for every team. Some people want more optimism, some people want more pessimism because then you can bond over that. Like you have to like find the medium that still, you know, shows that you understand, but also all is not lost. And that's tricky for sure. And if you can kind of strike that balance, I think while being kind of like true to how you're actually feeling, I think that's a really good skill to have. That and memory, remembering context of things and something that happened two years ago, I feel like that's great. Then you can't ever like plan on what to remember. It's just it sticks with you or it doesn't, and that'll get you far, also. So those two, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Those are great answers. You passed. Nailed that. Yeah, because I think it's so true that it is the constant balance that you're the cheerleader for whatever department you're working with, but you're also the funnel of information hitting the department that may be challenging at times, especially when you're in the heat of a crunch or whatnot. It it can be really tricky for sure.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

But I think I'm hearing you say that it's all individualized too. I try and note who like gets stressed more easily or like who I need to say, hey, this isn't a big deal, like prep that way, or the opposite, like, hey, this is really important. We need to jump on it. Like sometimes there's more prep work involved, depending on who you're talking to.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

100%. And if it's like a really large team of like a hundred, or if you're it's a team of 10 that changes things too, and you can never get it fully right every time. But picking up on those vibes, especially like unspoken, remembering people's preferences and how to keep momentum going, but also yeah, recognize the reality too.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

It's it's hard. It's a lot. What's something you wish more people knew about how we make animated films?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Good question. I mean, I know what I didn't know going into it. Starting my first week and realizing, like, oh, I always thought trailers were cut from finished movies. They're not. Oh, I had no idea. That was fun to realize. And then also, there's a lot of things that drew me to Pixar. It's definitely like a great place for having the stability of one roof, but also the change of multiple departments, and you're still getting like the new first day of school, but also the same co-workers in your orbit, but then your team's different and all of that. But I think what I thought going in was isn't it so nice that live action, there's so much with the effects that you can do and reshoots and everything. But at a certain point, the footage you have is the footage you have, and you can doctorate and do whatever, but you work with what you got and you work around it or whatever. And then in animation, especially when you're all under one roof, there's always the temptation to perfect something to the tiniest detail. And obviously, they do in a lot of ways. You could work on a shot for 10 years and not be done with it. So factoring in, and it just feels like everyone is an overachiever and a perfectionist. And so when you get all those people together with the similar sensibilities, it's definitely a balance of how do we create the footage exactly how you want it, but also then it's up to you to cut it off. There's no end of the shoot day kind of thing, it's always there. And so that was something I didn't see as much of the other side of the coin on. So that's got its pros and cons, but I think you get better at it and at kind of figuring out when it's time to set it down. But it takes a lot of planning of like where the core moments we're going to spend our time on, and let's not spend a year on a shot that's gonna be seen for three seconds. It's a lot of that kind of negotiation and calibration.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

I haven't worked in live action, but it feels like in live action, a script is king or a little bit more like the driving factor. And in my experience in animation, the script always feels like a suggestion at best. I don't know if it feels that way at the studios you both have worked at, but that was interesting for me too, to be like, oh, do we not care about the script as much as I thought we might?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

I mean, and maybe it's because I came from late night TV where it your cutoff is that afternoon when you're taping. So there really is that daily hard cutoff. And it was much more solid of a can't change this field piece anymore. It's scaring now. Um, and I haven't worked in feature live action. I'm off base with it, but it that was my impression of both the worlds and how they kind of balance out.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

I also like the trailer answer. I had that same realization of like, oh my gosh, marketing's asking for shots for a trailer that we have not even started animating yet. It it is really funny.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Oh yeah. I had no idea. I know movies sat in a can somewhere for a few months before hitting theaters and no, they do not.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Oh man, the crazy crunches before Comic-Con or whatnot do kind of tend to live by those points of the year where you're like, oh wow, we're already back here again. Okay, where'd the time go? Definitely. So, how long have you been at Pixar then total?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I'm in my 10th year now. Just finished my ninth year.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Wow. Working on the 10th. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. I'm so curious. Is Pixar how do they deal with internal hiring and casting?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah. You start in a position, then when you're done with a show, you work with your department head. You can give preferences on department and what movie coming up you're interested in. After giving your preferences, they kind of work out the logistics of everything and you get it or you don't, but they're pretty good at working through what people want to do and what they're interested in.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

That's cool. Well, I think it's really gratifying to hear that they want to grow their production staff and put their time and resources into it. Cause I think that's something that is so important and not necessarily the case at each studio.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, it's really great. And there's so much internal knowledge that you get, like so much internal production software and the people and the relationships. And yeah, I'm also really grateful for it. I also think being in the Bay Area probably factors in a bit too, and wanting to hold on to people for that reason. But yeah, it really creates like a studio vibe and culture that's really nice.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

I'm so envious, by the way, that you're an hour away from wine country. Sorry, Nat. I'm a winery. I just I'd be like, oh, sorry guys, I'm just gonna go to this wine tasting at lunch. Bye. But that'd be a long time. It is pretty nice.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Yeah, I'm skipping ahead a little bit because you mentioned L.E.O. and I wanted to say congrats on it being nominated. Oh, thank you. That's always exciting. Thank you, and congrats on K-pop, by the way. Oh, thank you. We were gonna say, Oh, how does it feel to work on an Oscar nominated film? But I'm gonna guess you've worked on a couple coming from Pixar.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, it's crazy. I've always watched the Oscars like growing up, and it's so strange the first time you watch it and you recognize people and know people. It weirdly changes your lens and filter on the whole thing of like, oh, those are people in the room, and before it was all made up magic, and it just really humanizes the whole thing. I remember Soul was up for an Oscar and they flashed Ken Powers in the audience. I was like, oh my god, there's a big kid's kill. I know him, but it's weird.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

How is it for you, Alexis, and especially K-pop and everything? Oh man, it's just been so surreal. It was such a a wonderful crew, and I think just because no one expected that it would take on the life of its own that it has, it's just been really like the the coolest pinch moments over and over again of just like you know, Djokovic dancing to Soda Pop at Wimbledon, or honestly, the first time I heard Golden driving in my car and the art that we worked on and lit just like you know, not that long ago, was just on my car. I was like, what is happening? It's so crazy. It's so cool. And I am so excited for Michelle, our producer, and our directors, Maggie and Chris. And they all looked phenomenal, by the way, at the Oscars.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

I know I want I want all their stylists, whoever they all their yeah, clothing, hair, makeup.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I'm like the production desk will seek stylists help, especially now that we're going to be on camera here and there. Yeah, we need it now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any stylist that's listening that would like to help. We love fashion.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Um Alexis hearing you and your production manager, Brett Salinas, talk about how, like, when K-pop came out and you guys all got together at Maggie's house and watched it and we're like, well, we did it. Good job. Had no idea that it was gonna be the phenomenon that it is. I think that's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

That must have been, yeah, with Netflix release.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah, you you never know, right? It was such a fun night with everyone, and the rap parties were so much fun too. The crew was so lovely. I don't know if we've done a shout-out specifically to Spy, like the Spy crew as well was just wonderful to work with. There were two people I did not get to meet in person, which I will track them down in Vancouver someday.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Because Spy, which is Sony Pictures Image Works, in case we need to mention it to people who don't know, but that's where I got my start in animation. So I'm always like, oh, a spy, I love them.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

So my two main spy rocks, and just a shout-out to how phenomenal they both were Paige Berese. And Paige, I will meet you someday in person. And I have met Davis Dyke, who is lovely, and it was so wonderful meeting him in person for the first time. He is very tall, he is deceptively tall. But yeah, there was a lot of uh sitting in DI in a very cold room. I don't know why review theaters like I I get it to a certain extent, but there seems to be like a knob where some people are like, I'm gonna go even colder, and you're like, I need like a jacket and a parka and a blanket and ug.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Well, to keep you awake though, because if you're in like lighting reviews and it's so freaking dark, I always feel like I'm glad I'm freezing or else I'd be falling asleep.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

I have bought a hoodie before from our studio store because I was that desperate.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

I am so curious. So you've worked on multiple Oscar nominated films, which is so cool. But what is your favorite Pixar movie of all time?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I mean, my favorite probably would never be one that I worked on because it's a whole different experience. Obviously, when you work on it, can't even like judge it straight. But it's usually Monsters Inc. Because I just love something coming from like a common lore that is explained. But nostalgia-wise Toy Story 2 probably watched it a trillion times. The cleaning woody scene, and then Wally too. And I feel like Wally just gets more and more relevant.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Oh classics. It's unbelievable how many incredible films they've done. Finding Nemo for me. I'm a scuba diver as well. So that movie I just love so much. And to this day, I always refer to myself, I am that fish in the button at the end of the credits where like the little thing just like goes chomp and eats. You're like, where did where did the fish go? Like, that's me. If eating dinner, you're the one chomping, or you're the one okay, yeah. You're the one. Honestly, it depends on the day. Often I'm being chomped, and other days I am doing the chomping of dinner.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

I hear that. I feel like there's a production metaphor in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Right on the surface.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

What is your favorite Pixar? So I mean, cop out answer, but Toy Story, like the one that kicked everything off. That always holds a special place in my heart. Yeah, good one. Yeah.

unknown 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Do you know I catered the premiere for Up years ago when I was fresh off really LA? I wrote I want to say, wasn't it Pete Doctor that directed that?

SPEAKER_05 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

I remember seeing him on the red carpet, and I had to there was like the house, and it had corn dogs sticking up that were like the balloons, and it was my job to keep the corn dogs off of it. Wait, what? Your job was to keep they're stocked. They were like on a skewer, so you had to like put it on the skewer, stick it in the house knife. I remember I actually do have photos, I think. They were colored, which is kind of weird to think of like a yellow or green corn dog. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I was gonna say corndogs and balloons, naturally. But if they're colored, then of course.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

But your whole job at the event was like managing the corndogs on the roof, the balloon corndogs. That is so funny.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Such a strange experience.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

And I we should post some of those photos if you have them.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

You clearly got photos, like a lot of them, right?

SPEAKER_05 36:31

Guys that's like going way back in time.

unknown 36:34

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

But that's never the corndog album. That's your official like foot in the door, or not foot in the door, but like experience with animation, technically.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

It's your start in animation.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

My mind is blown right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Honestly, I would have killed to do that. So like starting out 100%. Like that would have been like, oh, I'm a huge get for sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

I'd have been very jealous of you. Taking it really seriously, too. You're like, I'm ready. I'm ready to rebuild the corndogs.

unknown 37:09

Boom.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Okay, so getting back to Elio, tell us about your role on the show.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yes. I was a department manager. Started out in sets and then changed to sets layout and then ended on edit layout.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Just the terms are so interesting to me.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Edit layout. Oh, I think we're that's like more common two groups to put together. Like there's been a few Pixar movies in the past that have merged those. It's not always like one big team, it's you just doing two separate teams, or some people do one big team. And then edit layout, to my knowledge, had not been done on a feature before. But those two also kind of make sense together. Layout just goes along with everybody.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Just to do a shout out to Brian. Is that how you met Brian Vidal, one of my favorite Brian? Hi, Brian.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Hi, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yes, on Elio Edit. Oh, he made this interview happen. So I am so thankful to him. He did indeed. That is fascinating, though. The combination of departments. I know we probably couldn't get into this because it's probably too proprietary, but just like the different structures, and I would assume it's different per show or needs of show, but that is like super interesting.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah, it definitely is different per show. And honestly, it was helpful to me. I was on the show for a long time. It was four years. And changing it up helped me, you know, see a bunch of different sides of it and also kept it fresh for sure. Doing all these, it was great. And ultimately that crew was so close. I felt like I was always around all the soups all the time. And that's technical soups. For you guys, do the technical soups have different title names too? Or is it just product management? The DP of Layout is the soup of layout. The editor. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. The soup.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I guess we tend to call them creative leads. And so it depends on like would your production designer be called something other than a production designer?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Technically be, and I say oh he only because when I was in art, it was a he, but he's technically as the art soup, but everyone you know I would refer to him as that. But he would be in that email alias, but he's the production designer. Yeah. Yeah. It must be different because we're all in-house. So like you don't work under the same roof with sets and characters, right? So you don't have as much of a need for that term, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Especially because I think like we both have vendor studios, so we don't deal with the back end as closely. But I think it's interesting in that same thing, like the creative leads is kind of how we approach that. But with Spa has our head of layout works at ImageWorks, but is more kind of that hybrid in between because he works so closely with us.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

And also on the spy side for lighting, we'd have CG soups. We would have the animation supervisor. So for back end, we would use that lingo. Yes. I had to think about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

That makes sense. I mean, that when you think about it, it's also probably why production soup and doesn't work for us.

SPEAKER_04 40:43

Because then it's so considerable.

unknown 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

This is like the geekyest we've gotten, I feel like, on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

No, the people let's do Brown on Soups again.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Well, I've said to Alexis before, I've changed my tune because I used to give creative leads or artists, I'd give them shit for not knowing our titles in production. And now I'm like, oh, I kind of get it. If they're coming from another studio or even if it was different on another show, I've now like dialed it back because I could see how they're like, well, I don't know. This person was called a pron soup here and an APM here and a coordinator here. So it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah. I was gonna possibly use that opportunity to Sass because I know we cut it out of the last episode.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

They know you're going the other way now. I feel like I feel more compassionate. I was like, I guess I've been kind of mean about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Depends on what day you catch me.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

Let's say you know what? That's also why I like when we do geek out about our jobs on this podcast. Because I have had again that Alexis and I keep discovering people we didn't know we had in common. My editor had come up to me and was like, I'm actually learning a lot about what production does in a more detailed way from listening to this. And I'm like, oh good. That was part of the point. So let's just be.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

It's not easily explained. I have not got an elevator pit family. Yeah. It feels so different per department and per movie. And it is very nebulous.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Production is put in crazy situations so much. And I think someone last week was just saying this. It is such a thankless job. At times you at times only hear when things go wrong. So it's just nice to shine a light on like people that are working so hard across the industry. Oh, and that's actually what I was gonna say. What Natalie and I have discovered is that we have gone through a lot of the old world of just being treated in and put in some pretty like gnarly situations. And I've heard crazier stories, like the urban myths of I don't know if you guys have heard, like an assistant had to drive a script to LAX, and the producer was like, if you don't get it to me on time, you're fired. And I actually wrote that into a screenplay that I was working on years ago. I was told very early in my career, like, if you do hear a rumor or something like that, it's likely true. We all work in film because we love telling stories and we love film as a medium, and it is so powerful. And you come with this passion, it chooses you, you don't necessarily choose it, like you're born with it or you're not born with it. But then what you have to go through to withstand the industry and like the rough pay at times, especially at the bottom, the long hours and like working with personalities that at times are super challenging. Like there are times where you're like, what is this all for? And you're like, it's because I love film. I do love film, right? Like, you know, and having yeah, the moment like the Oscars. I know that could be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, like what it represents of the industry and just like all the work that came before that for so many. And I know everyone has such a personal relationship with what that represents. Sorry for that crazy long range.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

No, no. It's really interesting. I feel like it's the same for a few roles where it's not always the case, but a lot of the times with our roles. It's if you're doing it right, it's not often see, it's kind of like editing where it's like if you're noticing a lot of the editing, it might be that it wasn't edited very well. And that might be why people struggle to define it or struggle to see it because if things are going smoothly, you don't notice as much. And yeah, it's hard to kind of differentiate, especially not to open another can of worms, but it's confident it's a majority female department. And where does that begin and end with the biases of the job versus the biases of the gender? So it's complicated for sure.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Beautifully said. Oh, I could talk about that forever. I hate feeling like I'm playing the role of mean mommy. We have a good mix on my current show in terms of female, male creative roles, but I've been on shows where the creative roles are largely male. And then I'm the mean mommy, you know, who's like, do your homework and watch the tie. It's time's up. And I don't like that. We should do a whole episode.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Oh, we will. It is on our topic line. Honestly, any kind of mom no.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Not nice mom either.

SPEAKER_04 45:11

Yeah, exactly. Alexis the other day was asked, we're we've been doing these mini episodes, and she was like, What do you think about the topic about birthdays at the office? And I was like, Oh, I've got a lot to say about that. Like, as a lady, I feel like a lot is expected of me for birthdays, and I don't want to do it. She was like, Oh, I just thought it was like kind of a neutral topic.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

It's hard oftentimes being one of very few women in the room. And so I always feel like a nag at times when you're trying to be like the cool, like, um fun and we got this, guys, but like, okay, it's totally cool if you can't. Like, I'm gonna go over here. Yeah, it is. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

There's a lot more that goes into that kind of stuff than people realize. Tampering kind of how you come in and how you ask. And yeah, it's a lot of mental load for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

That's why it's so exhausting at the end of the day. My God. I feel like you guys are in a way like therapy. I honestly had a bit of a rough day today, and then coming out here, I'm like, oh, I'm like ready to party now. This is great. So thank you, boy.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

It's still so crazy to me that it's the same every thing, the same reaction.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

I feel like this is a good segue into some questions about stress. We just all agreed that the end of the day can be really exhausting and stressful for various reasons. How do you personally handle with work stress?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I'm definitely not a stress mitigation expert by any means. Don't know if I always handle it very well, but you know, you're always trying to get better at it. I wish I could say that I go and run like Alexis. I don't do anything healthy like that. Oh, good. At all. Me neither. I feel like the way when I first started, take Elio, for example, and starting on edit, I started mid-show. So we're already going pretty fast. And people will give you advice of, like, you know, take it manageable chunks and steps. And I feel like that's how I approached it. But then as you get going, you kind of remember, oh, people also give the opposite of advice of like, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So which one is it? And I think the answer is a combo of whatever works for you. But I do think, especially the manager role, it it helped me to hover over a little bit and see the bigger picture and not be living and dying on every screening cycle and waiting for that magical screening where everyone stands up and applauds and all your answers are there. And you just make progress every time. And seeing it bigger definitely helped me at times when I was getting in the weeds. When you're just going towards those short milestones, I feel like it just sprint after sprint hover bubble at all and realize, okay, maybe I can jog here. I'm trying to relate to Alexis with the running.

unknown 48:03

I thought that.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

I know Malinga. I mean, you guys have mentioned too, like so Kleshkay, I just say like work-life balance and what does that even mean? You know, I just want to would in the thick of things, I'd want to like come and sit on the couch in the dark and stare at the wall and not have to think about anything. Yeah. It does just get important to the last thing I'd want to do is go out and do something else. But when I did, and there's a moment where I'm not thinking about the ins and outs of story structure, it was helpful. And so I guess people say it for a reason, but that's definitely something that's easier said than done when you're in the thick of things for sure.

SPEAKER_04 48:44

There is something about like changing your location after work to shift your brain. And I, as an introvert, I don't socialize enough after work like I used to, but kind of what you were just saying, Alexis, to hop on here. And it's like, oh, I feel energized again. You know, I'm not at work. There's other parts of my life that aren't work, and that's there's something about that that's kind of worky a little bit. My non-work activity is hosting a podcast about the work that we do.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

I can relate to that so hard. So think you back. What has been the strangest meeting you've either attended or had to schedule?

SPEAKER_01 49:22

The first thing that comes to mind is for Elio in the movie. There's a drink they keep drinking called Glorp. And I remember going to a meeting where we were looks developing it, and we had all of these ingredients, but also like ingredients isn't even the full work. Because some of them were drinkable, some were not, is like glue and beads. But you just make like what could an alien beverage look like. And there's eyeball beads and glitter, and it's like, was this one a drinkable one or not? So that was definitely a moment of wham. But you better believe we had competitions later. So yeah, that was a fun one.

SPEAKER_04 50:07

I like to imagine there were a lot of serious arguments about is this a drinkable alien drink?

SPEAKER_01 50:14

How many straws? And but there's gravity and the drink still going to the bottom of the cup. But that's why I think it ended up this way of like there's no base to the cup, so like it's a floating round bottom. So that's spacey. Oh my god, that's yeah, that's lots of space debate for sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Nat, what is your answer to that question?

SPEAKER_04 50:36

I probably had a lot, but I always talk about the very first job in the industry was Smurfs one, and I had to schedule an emergency smurfet hair meeting. Like something was wrong with her groom. You know, they didn't like it, they needed to change something. I'm assuming they were pretty far along. I was the production office coordinator, and and I got tasked with scheduling the emergency. This is an emergency. Like, we need to get this on the books right away. And I was like, This is the coolest job I've ever had, like an emergency smurfet hair meeting. It's wild. And that always sticks in my brain.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Did you label it emergency like SOS?

SPEAKER_04 51:14

I'm sure I didn't. I'm sure I did, just to like really drive it home. But I remember thinking, like, this is so funny.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Where am I? What about you, Alexis? What came to mind first was a meeting about Lego Batman's underwear design. That was my Sydney Days, a fabulous art team. And that was, yeah, that was a very funny meeting. I have been to an underwear design meeting before. I know, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:42

I shot right back into my memory.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Questions you never thought you'd ever find yourself answering. I think the funniest note, for some reason, my brain just went to being in like a sound effects meeting, and you're trying, as this was like a few movies ago, and you're trying to like translate to word what a crazy sound someone will make is. They'll be like, when the shprop uh goes bl, you gotta do blh. And then and you're like, oh god, does this work by translating this right?

SPEAKER_04 52:11

And that makes me think about story meetings I've been in where the kind of story or director speaks largely in sound effects, especially for like an action sequence, and you're trying to take notes, and they're like, so this character goes and then it's like and then it's like and you're like, so screen left to screen right, and then up the tree. Like that's what you were saying. It's like so hard.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

I'm just gonna do a direct translation.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

Sometimes you figure it out. You're like, oh yeah, I speak sound effects. No, I got it. I know what he's saying. You make really good sound effects, by the way, Natalie.

SPEAKER_05 52:45

You do.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

It's because I've learned how to speak it now from story meetings.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Emily, it has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and talking all the things.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

This has been great. It's so nice to relate to our prod management days in and out. It's so fun talking to you guys.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

So when I was driving to work on Thursday, it occurred to me what might be a fun end-of-episode question for this week is talking about recurring stress dreams. Okay. I had I haven't had in a while, but it came back. And to set the scene here, I've not told Natalie what this is. It's definitely a very weird one when it happens. As mentioned earlier in the episode, I'm in screening crunch, which means a lot of long hours and not sleeping all that well because of short turnarounds and eating later than you should be and all that stuff. So I dreamed in storyboards. No way. Yeah. And I actually asked Savis, and Savis said he also sometimes dreams in boards.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

No way. Wait, you mean like I'm thinking of the Take On Me music video from the 80s, where like they dive into the sketch that he's drawing?

SPEAKER_00 54:00

That would be so cool. I wish I were diving into a sketch where I'll take an oil painting. But yeah, no, I'm just seeing boards like black and white. Weird. So weird. I don't think I ever see myself. Weird. But I'm just interacting with people. So my point of view is everyone is in a drawing form. May I ask, do you ever have recurring stress dreams as well?

SPEAKER_04 54:23

Or it's funny, I haven't in a while, which is nice. But when I'm stressed, and I have to, I don't know if it's even specifically work-related or not, but I will have a dream that I am back at the Hallmark store that I worked at all through high school and then summers when I was home from college. But in the dream, I am back working at the store, like I'm me now, and I don't remember how to use the cash register. And I'm panicking. Like I just can't figure it out. That's the whole gig, right? You need to be able to sell stuff to people. And that's the recurring stress dream where I'm like, why don't I remember this? I don't remember how to use the cash register. In real life, you would just be like, Could you remind me, co-worker, how to use the cash register? You know, but in the dream, it's like, oh no, I'm such an idiot.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Not any big things coming up in the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_04 55:12

Work-wise, busy but manageable, so that feels good. And then my sister's coming into town for a sister weekend, so that'll be nice to catch up. And trying to like not overbook myself. That's my personal goal.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

It's a good goal, and that actually feeds into something I do want to say. Just when you are in crunch and your show is very busy or in the throes of production, it's so hard making it out of work on time, or you don't have control of rap times because it's such a evolving slippery slope. For the next few weeks, I will be literally either talking to you in my phone in the car, driving to or from work, talking to the parents. Or yeah, essentially it'll be sleep, try to run, go to work, and repeat.

SPEAKER_04 56:01

That's by the way, what I love about production people is knowing that they get it. Because you're telling me this, and I'm like, Yep, I get it. In a couple of weeks, you'll be uh, you know, more refreshed. Yeah, I always appreciate when production friends are like, oh my gosh, yeah, girl, we'll hang out in a month. You're busy. It's so helpful and validating. Hopefully, people feel that when we talk about it here. And it's not too boring that we're just like, we're so tired.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Yeah, please bear with us. Being in crunch and then doing our show on top of that is definitely pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

I do think we should do a video cut together of us like a before and after we record, because we hop on here, like when we're doing these intros, and we're like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. I know, like this like kind of low energy. And then we hit record and it's like, hey Lexus!

SPEAKER_00 56:49

It is so funny, isn't it? Yeah, it's nice to again use what we went to school for, or of taking classes in, or like our passion of using that creative juice for something. I feel like you should end this with a Shakespeare quote. Ooh, it has no relevance to what we're talking about, but I could quote my favorite one. Let's do it. So I was Puck a very long time ago. Yes. And Puck from Midsummer is just so much fun. And the text is just absolutely beautiful. If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here while these visions did appear. And this week an idol theme, no more yielding but a dream. And there is more to that, but I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

It totally ties in. Dreams. We did it. Dreams. Oh my god, look at that. We found a tie-in. Well, I hope you have better dreams this week and next week. And yeah, looking forward to seeing you and everyone next episode.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

I feel like I keep saying it was a lot of fun. What's a better way to say that? It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Fuck it. You know what? We like fun. God damn it. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, it's not, we're not always gonna have to say different words, guys. Don't tell us what to say. Don't tell us what to say. We're gonna say what we want to say. And we're gonna have fun saying what we say.

SPEAKER_04 58:13

So like complete crashing.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Get some good sleep, Nat. Thank you as always. Yeah, you too. You've been listening to the production desk. We are our own producers.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

Outro by Marcus Taylor. If you have a moment, we'd love a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find the production desk on Instagram and Facebook. For any episode ideas, please reach out.