Inside Walt Disney Animation Studios with Elise Scanlan: Production, Passion Projects, and Creative Side Quests

Our guest, Elise Scanlan, Production Supervisor at Walt Disney Animation Studios, joins us with stories from her work on many Disney films, including the Oscar nominated Zootopia 2. She also talks to us about her creative side quests including co-producing an animated short and writing romance novels. 

PSA: Production people are creative AF!

Plus, is this the year Alexis and Natalie attend the Annecy Animation Film Festival???

Check out Elise’s books here:

https://elisescanlan.com/books/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

I'm Alexis Dickerson. I'm Natalie DeJock. Welcome to the Production Death, a podcast about the people and process of animated production.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

And for back. Hey Nat.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hi, Alexis. Nat, it's really good to see you. I know. It's been strangely too long. Not strangely, because you've been in a screening crunch, which is done-ish. Yes, it is done.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

It's so surreal going from being incredibly busy to incredibly quiet.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Does it feel off? Are you someone who can properly relax? I think I know the answer.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Please, what do you want to say there, Nat?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

As I said that, I'm like, she's probably someone who wants to like, you kind of alluded to this earlier about like filling up the time with some sort of activity, not necessarily work.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Is that you're so kind? Yes, I am terrible at relaxing. I will be the first to admit that. Although I will say I have been very tired.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Well, you're in luck because I am very good at relaxing. I have a PhD in relaxing. My favorite activities are relaxing in different ways. I the other day. What? This is what I was looking up the other day. Because I've just been tired. Adulting is tiring. And I was looking up one of those floating places. Do you know what I'm talking about? Where you can like pay. You can like pay to go in a room where you're just like floating in this like pod in like the dark. That's how much I love relaxing. I was like, yeah, I'll pay a hundred bucks to like float in a sensoreless pod. So funny.

SPEAKER_04 2:00

What do you think about?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

It's like a sensory deprivation.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I was gonna say, I would love to do floating yoga. I love paddle boarding. No floating.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

No, too much, too much activity. I'm gonna book you a float in the tube. Can you float with a friend? How does that no?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

No, that's not relaxing. I was just gonna say you would have been proud. On Saturday, I went to the beach with uh two girlfriends and we literally sat and did nothing.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

I am proud of you with the doing nothing though. Good for you. Thank you. Good for you. It's good to practice relaxing. We're a good balance for each other because as much as I want to, I can't like be just floating in a sensory deprivation pod all day. I've never done one of those, by the way. I just was like, it just sounded fun. That sounds terrifying. It sounds very dark.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

You're like, that's the point at least. I think it sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

We got way off topic. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

No, it's all good. This is what I've missed. I'm just sitting in a closet and riffing with you about life. Oh my god. Life lessons with NDJ. So I was messaging Natalie throughout my crunch, and you know, you're working long hours, but I would just be like wall of blue bubbles to you with different random thoughts of topics. And you made me laugh what you said, though, and you're like, oh man, I could tell what kind of day you were having by what topics important.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Because sometimes they were like, Oh, this is kind of a light, cute thing. And sometimes I'm like, Whoops, she's having a day with this topic.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

One of the ones that I did message through was, and I don't think I fully understood this until a few years ago, but I used to work with a producer in Sydney who every time you'd be like, How are you? He would always respond with living the dream. And that was his thing. And he'd always like make a joke or whatever. And I never understood that response until being in a higher up position and knowing that is an avoidant way to respond to that question because you don't want to answer truthfully and show people what is inside your brain. I would always get flustered. My poor parents would ask me, and I'd be like, don't ask me. No, like I'm stressed, I'm tired, and I'm I'm having deja vu, being in the car on the 10 again, going to work. And I think at one point I did do the oh, live in the dream, you know, just to just try it. And I was like, oh blah. I want my own response.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

I'm not sure what it is. I liked this idea of coming up with your own unique phrase. Cause I also used to work with somebody who would say, Live in the dream, how are you? And I would say that for a while too, because I thought it was funny, right? Because someone will be asking you when you're doing something stupid, updating an Excel spreadsheet or whatever. And I thought it was very comical to be like, live in the dream sitting here at my dumb desk.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

I love that it always goes back to Excel spreadsheets.

unknown 5:06

I know.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I hate that part of the job. It's just like 70%.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Now, what if we're literally talking about the same producer who had answered that question in that? This wasn't a producer. Oh, okay. Yeah. But that would be funny. That'd be crazy. Then I wouldn't be surprised if we're the same person.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Well, but now I think of that phrase as like kind of an old boomer, sort of like live in the dream. So I agree. I'm like, you know, I would also love to have like a more unique response to that. Okay, I'm just gonna try it and tell me what comes up. You're at your desk, you're just like in the middle of figuring out the edit schedule, and I'm like, hey Alexis, how you doing?

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Yeah, I don't think what I'd have to say is politically correct. Would you just be like, Flo off? Pretty much. This is what came to mind. Maybe that's your unique response. Go fuck yourself, and I would like a crazy accent.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Well, that the accent will throw people off, and maybe they won't notice that you're being completely rude.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

It'd be like, oh, what a charming accent. Maybe it's something we can't solve now, but maybe it's something we have to just keep kind of riffing on until we figure it out. Let's workshop it. Let's workshop it.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Also, just to tie up our homework of coming up with our unique expression for how are you doing. I will say I do want mine to be in the vein of living the dream. Kind of a funny juxtaposition.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

I think what makes it so hard is it has to be positive and on the borderline of being a cheerleader, but also not putting on an authentic emotion. And I think that's what I find so hard because I'm not a peppy person. I do try to tailor my mood at work, but there are times where it's just really stressful. It's really hard to be your best and to live the dream and live your best self living the dream.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Hey, speaking of living the dream, are you getting ready for Annecy?

SPEAKER_03 7:03

It's so flattering that you ask. I have never been invited to Annecy. Yeah, me neither. I'm also not really ready. Neither of us are getting ready for Annecy.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Are you ready to not go to Annecy next week? I am so ready to not go to Annecy. It'd be cool to take the pot. I know. Should we just do it next year? There's a part of me that has a chip on my shoulder that's like, I want my job to send me to Annecy. But I don't know, maybe we just go.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I think we should just go and eat the food and drink all the drinks. We don't even go to the we're just drunk in a pub or wait in a wine bar. It's brand smokes.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Oh my gosh. Yeah, someday. But yeah, I'm all ready to not go to Annecy. I'm all packed. To not go to Annecy.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

I think that's a wonderful thing to strive for. Putting this out to the universe. Hello, universe. It is Alexis and NDJ. We would really like someone to hook us up with Annecy next year and do interviews and do episodes live from Annecy with a full theater. We're ready. And we're willing and we love France.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

We're ready for Annecy 2027.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

So our guest this week is another part of our Oscar series. She was recommended to us by one of my associate editors. I can't believe that we recorded this two months ago, which is wild how fast this year is going. But yeah, over to you to give her the proper introduction.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

All right. I love when guests send me their bios. Thank you, Elise. Elise Scanlon is originally from a small ski town in Colorado. She graduated from Loyola Marymount with a degree in animation and Spanish. She currently lives in LA with her fiance and two cats named Wally and Evie, appropriately named.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

So cute.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

And she's worked at Walt Disney Animation Studios for the past 13 years. I was about to say most recently, but what most recently came out and was nominated for an Oscar, which is what made us think to reach out, was Zootopia 2. She's also a self-proclaimed entertainment junkie. She reads too many books, watches too many movies, and listens to too much music. And she is an author, which we talk about more on this episode. So I'm not gonna spoil it. So without further ado? Without further ado, no more adus.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Can we just have a moment? Because when I was mocking you in the last coffee break, what does a do mean? Shouldn't we know? Isn't that like a Shakespeare thing? I probably we both should know. Oh shit, you're turning that back on me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Well, both of us. I also studied Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

This is so not helpful.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Wait, but the sound of music.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

A do, ado, ado. Oh, a do, a dear, a female dear, right? Here we go. Means further without further ado. It's an idiomatic phrase. It means without any more delay or fuss. It is most commonly used as a transition when moving straight into the main event.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Ado is an older English word for trouble or fuss. In my defense, I was thinking of ado. Isn't that like the French word for goodbye? A do. Well, you know what? I don't know because I'm not going to Annecy. So boom, nailed it. I got invited. Hi, Elise. Hi. Thank you so much for joining our podcast. We're really excited to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah, super excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

We pretty much start every interview by asking people how they got their foot in the door because everyone's story is so different. So I'd love to just kick it off there and ask you how you started in animation.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah. So I went to college for animation. I went to LMU and thought I wanted to do the animator artist thing. And I did get my degree in that actually. But as I got into it, I was kind of figuring out maybe the artist route isn't fully for me. It's so detail-oriented. And like the people who can do it, they have such talent, right? We all work with artists all the time. But I started to figure out that maybe that wasn't exactly my path. And then my junior year of college, they offered a class called like Animation Practicum, which basically just broke down how the industry works. Because I feel like my college program was very generalist animation. And it didn't really get into the specifics of oh, there's these specific departments within animation. And that's where I learned about production management for the first place. And I was like, oh, that actually sounds more up my alley. So my senior year of college, I got a production internship at Nickelodeon, actually, on The Legend of Korra, which was a fabulous show. So much fun. I loved that whole theme. And that sort of solidified like production management is what I want to do. In terms of how I actually got my job, which is at Disney feature animation, like a lot of people, it's that who you know thing. And it's a funny story, but my best friend slash roommate at the time's boyfriends, family friends, we can connect all those dots, was a writer at Disney Toon Studios. And Disney Toon Studios was the arm of the division that did the straight to DVD sequels. And he was a writer on Lion King One and a half and Cinderella 2. His name is Tom Rogers, and he was kind enough to give us a tour of the building back when I was in college. And then when I was applying to jobs, I reached out to him and was like, hey Tom, I'm gonna be applying at the time to a job at Disney Tune Studios that I was like not qualified for at all. It was a production coordinator job, and it was in like casting or something, but I was like, you know what? I'm just trying to find a job out of college here. So I emailed him my resume and he very kindly passed it over to the people at Feature Animation, and that's how I like got an interview over there.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

I think it's so fascinating. I feel like I'm starting to hear more stories of people studying animation in college. Not a lot, but a little bit more now. So I love that you discovered it that way. But what kind of art were you sort of interested before you realized, no, I want to move into production management?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

If I were to have gone towards anything, it might have been asset modeling. That was what I was starting to dabble in more a little bit when I started to figure out maybe the other areas were in my vortex.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

That's so interesting. Do you feel like that helped you once you moved into production?

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I can then speak artist, right? And understand, I'm like, I used Via in my college films. Obviously, they can do it a lot faster than I probably ever could, even as a college student. But I do have a general understanding of like how long something should take or what's involved with it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Touching on what Natalie was saying, studying animation and the art form, it's nice to have that kind of foundation. And especially it sounds like at Disney, you're moving around within different parts of the pipeline, which is so fantastic that production people get exposed to everything from development through to the end. I don't think that's something that is as common at other studios, which kind of segues into my next question for you. And looking at your experience, it's so cool that you did have time in development at Disney. What was your experience like in the development team?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah, interestingly at Disney, so we have a production side of development and then a creative development side. So the creative side has like the creative executives and they're sort of in charge of working with the director to guide the director's vision of what they're seeing for their film. And then, very much like the other departments within production management, if you're placed in development, then you're just in charge of managing that department to see it succeed. So when I was there, I was a production coordinator at the time on a couple different films, some that didn't come out or see the live day, but one of the ones that did come out ended up being Ryan the Last Dragon. So I got to work on that while it was in its development phase. And yeah, development is a very interesting department to help out in. It's very similar to story in a lot of ways, a lot of long meetings, verbatim notes, just trying to work through the story and what they want to do. But also because it's earlier in the process, it can have a lot more just very broad meetings of what kind of theme do we want? What kind of characters are we even looking at? Let's pull examples from other films of character types that we like. I remember on Ryan the Last Dragon, I made a whole board for them. They're like, find any animated dragon you can think of and put it on a board. And so I made this board of maybe it was like a hundred dragons, just like images that they were just pondering when they were trying to figure out like what's our visual language we want to do with this thing. So it can be stuff like that. They often do research trips. So I didn't get to go on the trip. That is always one of my like career goals. Make it to the level where I get to go on the research trip. But I did then get to like transcribe interviews when they came back. So it's still production management, a lot of notes. But you're servicing like the creative exec in that sense to try and get like the director's vision in development as they go through whatever steps they're in, if they're in the phase of just coming up with ideas or if they're in the let's write our first script phase.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

So that sounds like so much fun. I agree on the research trip.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yes, research script polls fun time. Some of them are way less fun. Like I know on not that they're not fun, but I think for like Wreck It Ralph, Ralph breaks the internet, they just went to see some server room. Like the research trip could be pretty boring, you know. It's not like frozen going to Norway.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, let's be clear, universe. I'd like to go to someplace gorgeous and per tropical. I know on Ninjago they went to JPL, which is cool.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Even though it's not that far.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It'd just be cool to check out, right? What's been your one or a couple of your favorite departments that you've managed? Oh man, so many favorites. I was even pondering this.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

I was like, they are down to one. I really love doing big hero six story. I was a PAA, so I wasn't doing too much in the management sense, but that movie was so fun. I had just come off of Frozen One, and that was my jam. I was like, the princess musical was my jam. And now I'm going on to this boy superhero movie. But once I got on it and then learned about the story and Bay Max, Max has my heart. I love him so much. And it was he's so cute. It was such a fun story room and story team. Sometimes you just have really great teams that really jive well together because all these movies are so hard to make. And so when you have a great team, it makes all the difference. So that was a really fun one. I also really loved getting to do the total opposite end of the pipeline, but then frozen to lighting was another one of my favorite ones. It was my first time doing lighting, and lighting is just so unique with being the end of the pipeline, and everything is, you know, depending on you heading that deadline. And at the time when Frozen G lighting was going on was when Avengers Endgame was coming out. And so we all kept just being like, We're the Avengers, we're gonna get this done. So I associate Frozen G lighting with us being the Avengers.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

I was going to ask, how long have you been at Disney? Because it sounds like it's been over 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Yeah, very uniquely. Like pretty much my whole career, other than that internship in Nickelodeon, has been at Disney. So I've been there 13 and a half years. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

That's so cool. Congratulate. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. What would you say are some underrated soft skills you think are kind of helpful in production management?

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Looking at coordinators and PAs and the ones that I think go from good to great, like the soft skills that I see, I think the biggest one is probably attention to detail. And it just makes such a big difference if somebody is looking at every little thing to make sure it is accurate. The accuracy of things as small as like a calendar event and making sure all the attendees are on there and the agenda's on there and the Zoom link works. All of that helps not only streamline the day, but then I, as a supervisor, am going, oh, that person is like, hey, so-and-so was left off that meeting and I added them. Like I then know they're looking at those details that I would hope that someone would catch. And it's not a big deal if we like realize it in the moment and we're like, oh shoot, add so-and-so to this meeting. But it's just a small example of attention to detail and how it streamlines the day and the process, and then also builds so much trust that you as a production management person are looking at all the details. Because even all those little things will eventually build up to how smooth your department's gonna run as a whole. And then it also will make me give you more responsibility, I think, as a supervisor too, if I can see that trust within a coordinator or a PA.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Well said. Attention to detail for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So with you on that, that shorthand is really nice to have. I feel like what you're also describing in that example is attention to detail as it fits into the bigger picture, you know, like to be able to look at that invite and be like, oh, I think so-and-so needs to be there because they work in the layout department and they're gonna want to speak to that is another piece of that puzzle too. Not just detail, but how the small details fit into this bigger picture.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Totally. It's also nice when you step out, whether it's your sick day or it's vacation, it's so nice knowing that the team is in good hands, that everyone is just used to knowing what to look for, knowing how to anticipate, and just keeping things moving forward as efficiently as possible. I'm curious, I've never asked this before, and not you and I don't think actually have discussed this, but what I think is interesting about Netflix or networks is the culture of sunshining, which for those who don't know that term, it's giving feedback to crew, possibly in front of other people, which I've never heard of before. I know Netflix has a very specific memo of their culture. Nat, I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on that. And then Elise, I'm so curious if Disney has anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I will jump in and say I do feel like that Netflix culture memo you're talking about. I think they're trying to implement that more in animation. We still feel a little bit separate from that. Like I've felt at every studio I've worked with in the animation division, always felt a little separate from the bigger part of the studio. So I don't feel like I see that as much. However, I do think feedback's important in the moment, and I do try and do that personally. I don't always ask for feedback. I don't love feedback, to be honest. I'm not always in the mood for feedback for myself, but I should be better about that because I think it's helpful. So somebody knows if there's something they need to work on, and being able to receive feedback is such a good trait, which is why I should do it. Well, I should ask for it more. But yeah, how do you feel about it, Elise?

SPEAKER_02 22:03

We definitely have a cultural expectation. Maybe it's not even cultural expectation. We definitely have an expectation to deliver feedback in the moment if you see something. Not necessarily in front of people like you're talking about, but if I notice something that I should point out that a coordinator did really well, even not necessarily negative feedback. The expectation is to try and deliver feedback immediately because you never want to surprise people with feedback, right? When you get to those formal feedback sessions. I think we do a formal feedback like twice a year, basically. Or when you roll up of a show, you definitely get an end-of-shoedback. So you never want to go into that and have somebody be totally blindsided by something you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

But I agree, it's really hard to ask for sure. I know. I feel like I've managed a lot of coordinators who have asked me for it. I'm like, gosh, that's so great. I should be doing that.

unknown 22:50

And then I don't.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

But you make a good point about sometimes giving feedback, you immediately go to like constructive or maybe not negative, but more constructive feedback. But just calling out what's working is so important. And especially because in production, as we know, if everything's going smooth, nobody notices how well we're doing our jobs. It's like the one time the conference room computer isn't working, and all of a sudden it's like your fault and why wasn't this set up, you know? And so it is nice to, yeah, give that feedback, even to your peers, to be like, hey, thanks for like helping me out there and scratching my back when I needed it.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Especially in production, you you do often hear when things only go badly, you don't hear all the good. So I totally also agree with that. It does kind of make your day when someone responds to notes and they're like, that was really helpful. Thank you. And you're just like, oh my God, someone's actually looking at this email. That means so much. Thank you. And I agree that it's interesting that more studios don't implement ongoing feedback. I know that's been something that I, especially after making that jump to management, try to do with crew, especially because it is really hard to do and no one teaches you how to do it. And so it's cobbling together what has worked, I guess, from the bits that I had in my past that I liked and thought were helpful. It's strange to me that so much of production is on-the-job training and being thrown into situations and then having to figure it out as you go.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, that's actually making me think it still on topic with soft skills, Elise. Have you ever learned something the hard way? You know, where you had an experience when you were younger where you're like, oh, I should pay attention to those details, or I should speak up in this moment or not speak up. I remember I got really good feedback actually on Big Hero Sick Story.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

My supervisor at the time, I was asking her a question about something in front of the director. And I don't remember even what the question was, but it was something about like our future plans of how to do something. And then right after that, she pulled me over and was like, next time, let's not ask that in front of the director, because he might get spun up about how we're gonna do that. Like it's totally fine for you to ask me, but just be mindful of where you're doing that in front of. So I feel like that's at least a piece of feedback that's always stuck with me personally, and then like, oh, I feel like that's I guess a communication in general is another huge skill with production management, who to communicate to and in front of and when.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Yes, that and I love that you called out your supervisor at the time that gave you that feedback that stayed with you. I feel so thankful to have had some really incredible past managers within film across the board that kind of have stuck with me in bits and bobs. I don't know if anyone wants to do a shout-out.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Shout out, Telly Feag. She was great.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Nat, do you have a shout-out to anyone? You're like, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

I'm like, nope, no shout out. No, I was like, I have a lot of shout-outs. That's why I was pausing. But Jessica Berry is coming to mind. She was when I moved to the front end of animation, she was my first PM and was always very direct. And I always knew where I stood with her. And I love, I was never second guessing if I was doing something right or wrong. And I just prefer clear, direct communication, right? Especially as I get older. I'm like, I'm too tired. Don't make me guess what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

What about you, Alexis? Oh man. It is hard to pick one just thinking LA-based people. I will shout out Kelly Prizman. She has a huge part in showing me kind of like the front-end pipeline from start to finish on Angry Birds 2. And she taught me a lot and was so good and calm with feedback and was a work wife on that show as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Your comment, Alexis, about things that we learn on the job that, you know, about production that you wouldn't have learned elsewhere, I think is a good lead into the next question of what are some things that you wish people knew about animation that they might not know about? Or how, I guess, specifically how animated films are made.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

I think everyone just assumes the whole thing is done by animation, like animators. I mean, not only do they confuse your own job and assume you're an animator, but then I don't think they realize how many departments truly make up the full pipeline to get a movie done. We usually, when I'm explaining my job to people, I'll say, I get partnered with a department like animation or effects. And of course it's always those two that I list because I'm like, those are the two maybe people can mentally understand a little bit what that is, but there's so many more departments that go into it. So I wish they just like even just like character assets itself is a department I could be paired in, but that's made up by four departments within character assets, so there's just so much more to it than people know.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

That's such a good way of setting it up, and I'm gonna steal it because I make the mistake of saying that I manage artists and then people go, Oh, the animators. And I'm like, sometimes, but there's a lot of other types of artists. So that's so smart to just jump in like that. The next question, because animated movies take so freaking long to make. We'd love to know, Elise, how you get through it? How do you get through the long, stressful production cycles? Oh man, great question.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I feel like mostly, luckily, I have almost exclusively gotten to work with really great people. And so it's just the type of people where you're like, okay, after this long day, we need to go get a drink somewhere so we can all like decompress. And just people you want to keep seeing outside of work, even though you spent so many hours with them in the building, too. It's either my work wives, husbands, as we've said.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Just a quick Lawrence Gann shout out. That is uh your current work wife and past work wife on the same call, Lawrence. Lawrence, true gem of a human that he is, or like my fiance.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I get to come home and have a glass of wine, and he just gets to hear me vent about a bunch of people and things he doesn't understand at all. But he just smiles and dogs and offers support.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Could you imagine there'd be like a podcast with all of our partners over the years of what they've heard and just like all the tea that best friends or partners or pets, could you imagine like the cat podcast of you just venting about your day to your furball?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

It's just my dog going, why does she look so tired? That is hilarious. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

I feel like my cat just guilt me every time I leave to go to work in the morning and she's like, Where are you going? Why aren't you working from here? And you're like, I need to make money to feed you. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I love you. I do it for you. You know, since we're talking about stress, so tomorrow we're doing an interview with a therapist friend of mine to be like, help us, help us production folks. We're drowning, we're burnt out. So I'd love to know if you had any questions that you would want to ask a therapist specifically about animation production stress. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

I mean, I've done therapy before. Yeah. Currently, but yeah, I mean, and I'm a total fan of it. I know there's even coworkers who are like, I have to set aside this hour during the day so I can go to therapy. And you're like, good for you. Please make sure you take care of your mental health because these films can be really hard in a lot of hours and really drain you. Yeah, questions. I don't know. Yeah, I guess if people have good coping skills for separating or I know, especially, I think a lot of production management people can be perfectionists. And if something does go awry when it was within your control to probably fix it, I can go home and spiral about something for like hours until something else significant enough happens to take my mind off of that thing. Or especially if I have a not great interaction with an artist, which luckily is fairly rare, but those then you really spiral about too. You're like, oh, I should have done that differently. I should have said something differently. So how to break that spiral would be good to know. Tricks.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Good one. Yeah. I just relate to that so hard, man. Yeah. That's a really good one. I'm gonna throw that on there. Because similarly, I am a big fan of therapy. I know Alexis is as well, but you know, like I know it's good to take breaks and things, like even the really basic stuff. But when you're in a crunch, man, it's hard to find that time. So yeah, I'm hoping our therapist tells us how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

I feel like our positions are unique to in that you like partner with that creative, but you feel responsible for that department with that creative and the success of it finishing. And so it is a really big burden to have on yourself, too. So just giving yourself grace is a challenge.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

That's so beautifully said. It's really easy to feel like being in a game of whack-a-mole and you're the bowl. You end a day, and then you just have to do it all over again. The long hours, and of course, then it's like you're getting so little sleep, and then you're like trying to wake up to maybe get that walk-in or do whatever your exercise is that works best for you. And then it's that constant push-pull of trying to just stay healthy mentally and physically, and then rinse repeat. It's so hard. I know I'm about to go into like screening crunch, so I'm racing myself for it. And I'm really bad. I'm a night owl and I hate going to sleep. I think Nat and I are very different in that respect. I love going to sleep. I hate it. I hate it. I just want to stay up all the time, which is I know it's not good.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Are you a night owl too, or are you a morning person?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I'm definitely a night person. Yes. And trying to get to work right at 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

when the day starts.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

And then I will go to the like late hours to finish something. My brain hasn't turned on in the morning for sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

To be clear, I'm like a late morning person. So I'm neither night owl or morning, like a solid 10:30 a.m. lady. We haven't even talked about Zootopia 2, so I'm gonna bring us there. Belated congrats on the Oscar nomination. What was your role on the film?

SPEAKER_02 32:30

I came on just the last five months to help co-production supervise Environment Assets, which I had done on Encanto. I had done Environment Assets, and it was the same head of environment. And then the other production supervisor, Kristen Sanakis, shout out, is one of not only a coworker I know, but like one of my really good friends. And so that movie is just such a big movie, like so many characters, so many environments. And we typically have a November release, so we tend to crunch in the summer, and it was just such a big film. They needed additional production help there. So I came on the last five months of production just to see them out through the crunch into the end and did environment assets, which at Disney includes the modeling of the actual environments. We call it look development, and then we also include set extension or matte painting. So all of the extended backgrounds also fell under us.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

You must have loved being in that department, especially with back in school, like wanting to go in that direction. Yes. I do love environments.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

I will say assets is like an underrated department for how challenging it is in both characters and environments. It's often been my experience that it's one of the departments that they promote newer production supervisors in, which in retrospect I think is really interesting because it's one of the departments that has, like we talk about even with characters, like multiple departments underneath it. So it's a lot to manage. And it also can be really nebulous when an asset is done. Like on the character's side, you could have a million rigging notes going back and forth with animation. And it's like, when is this rig like finally locked and done? And we're not touching it anymore. And yeah, environment's really not done until it's seen and shot and it's final lit. So in some ways, you're not done till the end of the movie, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I similarly came on this show, not the last five months, but later in the process. And then here we are in lighting, and I'm like, oh, wow, we're almost done. I think this is my new favorite thing to start so late in the process because it's like I still have energy to finish it versus starting from the very beginning, and you're like, oh my gosh, it's never ending. So I'm curious if you have a preference on that type of a role, jumping on late or seeing it through from the very, very start.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Yeah, I think what I kind of love about production management is that you change departments so frequently and it's similar skills, but it is very different depending on what department you're in or what's unique about that specific role. So I do the change. I like only being on something a year or so or even less, and then going on to the new thing. So I definitely feel that. Yeah, jumping on that late is interesting because obviously so much is happening. They've got things going across the whole spectrum of the film. A lot of it, I was like, so what's the status of that thing? Has that been built? Where's that thing? Yeah, like you're really quickly paying catch up, right? To get on the same page as where everybody else is, because they know where all the bodies are buried, because they've been along for like a year or two. But exactly what you're saying, they also are maybe tired too, because it's been such a marathon and you're coming on as the final sprinter to be like, we can do it. Let's get to the finish.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Oh, I have to say, I'm so envious. I think it's really valuable, especially understanding more of the technical end. I wish that in my experiences to do this I've been at, that we were more across the back end. Obviously, you're working with your vendor and being an edit, like you're across a lot of obviously shot status and whatnot, and everything lives and breathes an edit, but in career trajectory and wanting to be the best producer eventually that you can be. And I feel like so much of that is also understanding the back end. And until you work in those departments, it's so hard to fully comprehend the scope and the ripples of notes and changes.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Were you doing more back-end stuff when you were in Sydney? Or am I misremembering?

SPEAKER_03 36:20

I was in art actually. So okay. I worked at Animal Logic on Lego Ninjago and Lego Batman. And so I was in art department specifically on Ninjago, and for Batman I did some matte painting, but that was more of a shorter stint just because film order ended up changing and Batman ended up switching to come out ahead of Ninjago. I know with Spy, they are so wonderful and love working with them. But because they're in Vancouver and just because the shows just aren't set up in that same way, it is hard to fully comprehend their part of everything. Quick time out, actually. Nat, do you want to just take a moment? Because I realized your film was just announced a couple of days ago. Oh yeah. Should we say a little quick pause? Nat, plug it. It's very exciting. These moments don't happen a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yes. So when this episode comes out, it will have been a couple weeks since it was announced, but they just announced the movie I'm working on. Charlie versus the Chocolate Factory coming out of Netflix Animation Studios, and Sony Pictures Imageworks is doing the animation. Yay, I get to talk about it. Woo! I don't have to say I'm working on an unannounced feature anymore. It's fun. That's very exciting. Congratulations. How has the reaction been? Are people excited? And I did I see Tigers in it? Yes. Yeah. He is voicing uh Willy Wonka. Yeah, so far so good. With uh already existing IP, you're always gonna get people online being like, nobody makes anything original anymore. But they're in for a treat because it's a very weird and funny and silly twisted retelling of the story of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. So that's always nice when you actually like the project that you're working on and you're like, go see it, you're gonna like it. So I like that I get to say that and I don't have to fake it. Phil had projects, maybe we didn't love as much. Great crew, terrible film. Yeah. Yeah, that happens. So yeah, thanks for bringing it up. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Before we roll on to another topic, though, I wanted to know, Elise, a moment on Zootopia 2 that you felt really proud about, whether it was something your team did or yourself or just a proud moment.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Oh man. The proudest moment was finishing. We did it. Like all these movies are hard in different ways. They all have their unique challenges, and it's just always such a relief to get to the end and have it be done, and you're like, it's coming out, the world's gets us see this soon. There's so many, specifically with the environments team, like there's so many beautiful environments. I did actually get to, just by happenstance, go to the BES Awards this year and for environments, and the environment team won the BES awards season. Congrats. K-pop won every other category. Which is totally deserving. I love that movie too, like genuinely. So cool to get to go.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

That's so cool. I love that. Okay. What is your favorite Disney movie?

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Uh, I always cheat with this answer because I always have to put them into categories. You can cheat, it's allowed. If I have to pick one, this is the answer I usually pick is Beauty and the Beast, of course. That is mine. Yeah. And then the I don't know, this might be unique to working at Disney, but everyone assumes you work at Pixar actually first. The second you say you work at Disney, the two things that people say are, oh, Disneyland, and you're like, no. Or oh Pixar, and you're like, no. But my favorite Pixar movie, which is Disney Pixar, is Wally. Love Wally. And then favorite musical hunchback. I think that music is phenomenal. Yeah. It's such a big choral. Yes.

unknown 39:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Yeah. So good. So good. And then if I do action adventure, then I'll usually do Aladdin.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Oh, I love Aladdin too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

I all just so good and iconic. Your comment about Pixar made me think of did you ever work with or cross paths with David Thibodeau at Disney?

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Yes. Yeah. I trained David Thibodeau.

unknown 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

He's my line producer. Yeah, he's done well.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Oh my gosh, that's so fun. He's fantastic. But he told me the story the other day that made me laugh. That same thing about people conflating Disney and Pixar movies. And I think he said that there was, I can't think of what movie it was. There was like a Reddit thread. People were whatever complaining about a movie. And he would go on there and be like, actually, that's Pixar. Or actually that's Disney. He would be the voice that would be like, you're incorrect on which studio made that movie. And I thought it was so funny.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

I remember when I started, there was like a conspiracy theory. Because when I started, Wreck It Ralph 1 had just come out. And so had Brave. And there was this conspiracy that Disney had actually made Brave and Pixar had made Wreck at Ralph, and they swapped it and submitted it under the other titles to see how it did. I'm like, as if that would ever happen. So what are you reading? Yeah, like an April Fool's joke. That's so strange.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Disney fans are rabid.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Like they are wild. Yeah, it's always very interesting to read the comments, like you're saying, whenever something comes out, like you're gonna get a whole spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Yeah, it's hard. You can't please everyone, but it is hard because you're like, regardless of whether you love it or hate it, people have to understand a lot of people killed themselves to make that movie and did the best they could. Just be nice. If you don't have anything nice to say, why comment? People that get so mean on online and just felt so old saying online.

unknown 41:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

You take the time to get on the keyboard. You know what I mean? I'm sure we've all seen stuff and are like, oh, that looks dumb, or I have an opinion about that. But the idea of taking the time to be like, I'm gonna log in and I'm gonna make a fake name and I'm gonna type this mean comment as well. Yeah, you need a life, man. Okay, switching gears, are you allowed to tell us anything about the unannounced animated short that you are currently co-producing?

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Yeah. The short that I am working on is it's actually a really interesting program that Disney sometimes offers called the Co-op program. And essentially, people can pitch their own ideas for a short that they do entirely on their own time. Like it's entirely done outside of work hours, but just acknowledging that they're gonna use work computers to do the work and internal programs and that kind of thing. And it's a great opportunity because obviously I'm just a production supervisor, but then I do get to like stretch towards that idea of being a producer and a short is typically a very small team, anyways. But especially a co-op is a very small team. Like essentially there's the director, me, and then we have a handful of people who can come on and help in their off time occasionally on various things. So I'm playing the role of PM and AP and loser and all GA. All of the roles in some ways. But yeah, we're at the stage where we have cut storyboards and we even have some assets done and we're through layout on several shots. So we're right on the cusp of having rigs done enough to go into animation.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Oh, so exciting. What is it like managing that in your off hours? And how are you able to create deadlines when people are working, not your usual nine to five hours?

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah, it's a lot of lunch meetings, like choosing to spend your lunch with people and talk about it almost a work adjacent thing. And then that also is nice if we can do it at lunch, just so it doesn't go beyond the parameters of the day, but you're still within your lunch hour, so you're still good. But it's hard. I think you just have to put a deadline, go, hey, we're trying to have this thing done in five weeks. Does that feel realistic? And people go, yeah. And then you see if that actually even could be a reality with people's free time.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I guess it's the same as your day job, right? That's essentially what we're doing too. Can this be done in five weeks? Sure. And then the time gets there and you're like, maybe. Maybe not, or we did it, yeah. So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

And you'd use all those same skills. Oh, I'm gonna bid this out and schedule it like it's a normal thing, and then we'll just see what we can do realistically.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

I think that's so cool though that you have the opportunity to step in as producer and learn that part of the job.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Is there anything you're learning specifically about the producing role that's surprising to you? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

I think in some ways it's the macro schedule, but then it's also because of people working on it in such short spurts. In some ways, we are very department focused still, so you don't have the, oh, I've got five departments running at the same time. But imagining that macro schedule and like the dates of if we're gonna try and get something done by now so that we could get it into such and such film festival, that's been a learning curve. The marketing side, that's a very foreign world to me. And like, how do you get this thing out there and into festivals? But yeah, I feel like all of it, it's just been helpful to do it and go, oh, what don't I know how to do actually from my current role and what do I need to pick people's brain on? I've also utilized Brad Simonson, has previously produced some of these other co-ops too. So I also have met with him a bunch too. And he also is just a producer as his real job. So just picking his brain on stuff too.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

It's such a good point. Unless you've done the job and every film has different challenges, you're not gonna know what to ask until you're in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

And such a production thing, right? I don't know. Disney might be different, but I I feel like for me, the films I've been on, there's always a certain part that feels like reinventing the wheel again, where I'm like, why is this different on this show? And sometimes it's annoying, but a lot of times it's like you're learning a whole new skill set in the end. And it's yeah, gosh, so much of how production works. A little trial by fire.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Yeah, and the hard part too is like it goes so long because you're doing it in your free time. This is like a very short, but I've already been on it like four years or something. And so just keeping that momentum up to keep working on it.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Those two people trying to do something creative in their off hours. We feel your pain. Yeah, props to you. That's a lot to take on.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

We'll have to do a part two follow-up when you get it done. We will need to interview you when it's out to the world about how the rest of your short went. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Into kind of a wrap-up question. Do you have any hobbies outside of your day job and also co-producing your unannounced animated short?

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Yes. Completely unrelated to my day job. I have on my own time written a couple of self-published romance novels that are available on Amazon. Yay, what are they called? Old, new, borrowed, and royal blue is the first one. Okay. And so it's a modern day royal romance-esque thing. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

I'm so excited. Before we started recording, romance novels came up, and I was saying I'm a little bit new to it just in the past year or two because of a friend of mine who has also self-published a book. And so now I'm obsessed. So, well, I'm gonna buy it. Thank you for my next book. Ah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

My next book is until unlimited. I think it's free too.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

So I'm gonna buy a paper book. Excellent. Were you saying there was more than one? It's a trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Oh, it's a trilogy. Holy cow! Yes, it's the something blue series. So the second one, like I just do old new, borrowed, and ocean blue, and then midnight blue is the third one.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

I'm so excited. That's so cool. I have so many questions. When did you decide you wanted to write a romance novel and how long did that first book take?

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Even since college, I've liked the idea of writing novels. I actually wrote a YA fantasy that's free on Wattpad. I actually should reread it and see how terrible it is. That was like the first thing that I put out. And Wattpad is notoriously like where you can get free novels. But that's where some of the things have come off of Wattpad. That terrible, like Harry Styles fanfic thing that was on there at one point.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Anyway, it's wild that because again, I'm new and learning uh sites where people submit fanfic and get discovered and get books published.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

It happened.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Wait, how long did the trilogy take you to write?

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Man, I didn't know for several years. I'm trying to think. I was motivated, I do recall, by William and Kate's wedding to be like, this is a romance novel about royals, so I need to get it out. I think I released it on their wedding day, actually, if I remember correctly. It's unrelated to them at all. So I was writing it for like definitely over a year, maybe two years, and then was motivated once they got engaged to be like, okay, I gotta finish this thing and get it out. Who do you like reading? Who are your favorite authors? I read kind of anything that someone will put in front of me, and as long as they've got a recommendation behind it that it's good. I've recently really loved the uh fourth wing novels. If you've read those at all with the dragons, I haven't read them yet.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Are you more of a fantasy romance person? I lean, yeah, the romanticy fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Definitely is where I lean. Occasionally I'll do like the contemporary, which is funny because I wrote contemporary. There's no fantasy. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Interesting. I tend to read more contemporary, but I have a lot of friends into romantic. Oh my gosh. I could do a whole other podcast about this.

unknown 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

At least if you ever wanted to write something animated. Oh man, that would be really cool if I could. I've never really tried screenwriting, though. I've even helped as like a script coordinator and stuff. So obviously I'm like familiar with scripts and formatting and whatnot. But yeah, I've never like dabbled in screen writing at all. But I've got like a constant notebook going of like ideas. So who's to say?

SPEAKER_03 49:41

We'll see. So maybe your next short will be you writing the short and then seeing that literally through from page to screen. Yeah, that would be sweet.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

I'm so glad you asked that question, Alexis, because I know we're trying to highlight more the fact that production staff are really creative people who have other projects going on. I think sometimes we can get typecast as they're the people that like spreadsheets, the end. But no, a lot of us got into this because of our own creativity. So we wanted to plug that more. So we will absolutely plug where people can buy your books. Plural, the trilogy. Oh, I'm so inspired. I have a book in me. That's a someday goal for sure. You can totally do it.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

You just gotta keep writing, you just gotta sit down and write, even with hard. It's hard. Yeah. I do my best writing actually in November. They usually have a national novel writing. Nano Rhymo. Yes! Nano Rhymo is my best word count time ever because it's like everybody's doing it. You're supposed to write 50,000 words in the month of November, so it's 1600 something a day, which isn't crazy. It's like a page and a half, I think, in the Word document. It's doable. So then if you're like me and thousands of other people are doing it at the same time. It's very motivational.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Well, and I appreciate that the goal of that is just get the frickin' words down on the paper. You'll go back and edit it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I think that's so helpful for you were talking about being a perfectionist. I know I do that in my creative life too. And it's no, just get the vomit draft out first.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Yeah, because actually editing's the most fun, I think.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

I am so impressed. I'm very excited to check out your books. I like reading to help unwind after the chaos of the day. Because I'm assuming you're working on something now.

SPEAKER_02 51:23

Yeah, I'm loosely working on another one. This one is probably gonna be just a YA fantasy, but yeah, I've got lots of ideas and I need November to come around part way.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

We're about to say the same thing. It was so lovely to talk to you about so many things. Obviously, the podcast is about production staff. So hearing about your time at Disney and on Zootopia 2, but also learning more about the shorts program that you get to co-produce on was awesome. And then on top of that, hearing about your romance novels that you have published. It's just so fun to get to know you and hear about your personal creative projects too.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Thank you. So great to get to know you guys too, and like to learn that like we're all three at different studios, but it's all so relatable and similar.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah. And I love that you know where the quick serve gas station is.

unknown 52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

It's seriously been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and for talking to us about all the things. I don't know why I'm all shy now. So yeah, for this week's question, I'm a little scared. Nat, I love you're ready to go. You're firing up. Oh man, ready. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

So, Nat, what are your thoughts on putting on makeup in a car?

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Bad. You're talking about while driving, right? Not like in a parked car.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

I'm gonna talk about both.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Oh, well, you mean like if I pulled up to work and I'm like, oh, I need to put some makeup on.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

Yes, doing it in the parking lot or if you're at a stoplight. No, uh, bad. You gotta focus on on the road. Well, especially because I know my parents are listening. I just want to say I don't do this while the vehicle is moving. I only do it at a stoplight or in the parking garage.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Parking garage is fine.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

The lighting's bad, but the lighting's not great. You never want to look like a clown walking into work, but it is nice with working out in the morning. I often, especially in the summer, it's too humid to put on makeup right after going for a run. And then because I'm always running late and running out the door, I have to cool off before I can put on makeup. So it's a bit of a it's a tricky one. By the way, because I think this is super cute. Natalie and I are totally synced with our hair appointments. So we both have some hair pampering coming up this weekend, which is very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

I know. I'll send you a photo. I'll send you a photo. Okay. Tune in next week when we both have extra fabulous hair. And our grades are covered up for another few months.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Yeah, another couple weeks for me. Oh my god, me too. They come in so fast.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Thanks, production.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Yeah, animation. On that note. I love how this episode just got more and more spicy the longer we went.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Well, it's sort of unhinged, which is my favorite when we get there. We're recording this after work on a weekday, which we haven't done in a hot minute. Yeah, we're back. Welcome back to the real world. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

I do feel like this gif is is the perfect representation of the past few days. You know, the Homer Simpson, like the normal GIF where he's like going into the bushes, but like this time I'm Homer Simpson like coming out of yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Well, it's good to have you back. I've missed you. I'm excited to dive back in, edit some more episodes. We have a lot of really fun guests coming up.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

We do, and we have a really fun wish list and people to go out to, and I'm super excited to see what happens with that as well. Yeah. See you all next week. Depending on where you are, good night, good morning, and good luck. You've been listening to the production desk. We are our own producers.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Outro by Marcus Taylor. If you have a moment, we'd love a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find the production desk on Instagram and Facebook. For any episode ideas, please reach out.