Dr. Natasha Ridge: Leading with Evidence and Empathy

Dr. Natasha Ridge believes leadership is most meaningful when it is grounded in evidence, empathy, and service. In this episode of (C) Suite Talks, the Executive Director of the Sheikh Saud bin Saqr Al Qasimi Foundation for Policy Research reflects on building an institution that connects research, education, arts, culture, and community in Ras Al Khaimah. 

In just over 15 minutes, she shares how perseverance shaped her path from teaching into leadership, why local evidence matters for better decision-making, and what servant leadership really demands when the mission, the team, and the people behind the work are all at stake.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

When I first applied for a job overseas, I didn't get a job in the Middle East, which is where I wanted. So I went to Singapore. And from Singapore, I went to the Middle East. When I applied to do my doctorate, I didn't get admitted. I got admitted to the Masters. So I went to the Masters and then I did my doctorate. And I think that's something that we're sort of a bit lacking today is this idea that, you know, it doesn't have to be the trajectory of somebody. It isn't a direct line. You don't always go where you want to go directly. Sometimes you take detours, sometimes you face setbacks. But I think perseverance is critical to a successful career.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

But Haba, I'm Janan van Hat.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

And I'm Derek Zeno from the Alkosomi Foundation.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Welcome to C-Suite Talks, a podcast about what it really means to lead.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

We're talking to the people behind the titles to hear their stories, lessons, and a few surprises along the way.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Because leadership is more than just the corner office. It's personal. Natasha, it's a real pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you, Janan. This is quite literally the shortest trip I've taken to interview someone for C-Suite Talks, uh, just a few floors down. Not very far at all. Not no, no, no, just just uh just to the M floor.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

So how are you doing today? Very well, thank you, Janan. Very excited to be a part of the podcast, not just from the uh outside, but now from the inside. Not just behind the scenes. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Natasha, you've led the Al-Kasmi Foundation since 2009. Over the past 17 years, the foundation has produced over 240 publications, awarded over 85 research grants, and established platforms like the Gulf Comparative Education Society and the Bilingual Open Access Gulf Education and Social Policy Review Journal. Most recently, the Al-Kasimi Foundation partnered with J Pal Mena to pilot the Arabic literacy curriculum, Ikra, across 26 schools in Ras al Kema, delivering learning gains equivalent to an additional quarter of a school year in Arabic literacy, which, if I say so myself, is quite impressive. Thank you. The foundation also plays a vital role in promoting arts and culture in the UAE, having founded the Ras al Khema Art Festival in 2013. Taking place annually at the historic Al Jazeer Al-Hamra Heritage Village, the festival recorded over 43,000 visits and contributed approximately 25 million deadhams to Rasalhema's GDP just last year. Alright, enough shop talk. Let's get right into it. So not many people know this about you, Natasha, but in addition to your very busy full-time role running the Al-Khazmi Foundation, you're also three years into a jurisdictor at Griffith University in Australia. I mean, you already hold a doctorate in international education policy from Columbia University. So my question for you is why law? Why now? And how are you managing both?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

It's a very good question, Jeanane, and you're definitely not the first to ask me that question. I think for me, I I love learning. I think it's one of the tenets of the foundation and one of the reasons that we invest so much in ensuring staff having uh continuous professional development. But I I always enjoy learning new things. And during COVID, I was watching a lot of trials online and things that were happening around the world, and it just got me very interested in the law and how the law operates and the intersection of actually law and research, because I noticed a lot of people were citing journal articles in these trials, but citing them very inaccurately and not really able to engage with research itself. So that led me on a sort of a journey, I guess, that started in around 2021, and I investigated and I did some short courses, but then I really discovered that actually I enjoy it so much. And so I refer to it now that I'm starting for my final career. Um, and it's just it gives me a fresh perspective on policy, it gives me a fresh perspective on the world, but it just really helps your mind function in different ways. And I think the most interesting thing, I guess, of all of it was that I remembered that when I uh graduated high school, you know, many, many years ago, I um actually had applied to do law at uh Sydney University. So it's well it's um it's almost full circle, one could say. So here I am again.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

And uh how do you how do you manage studying full-time while working full-time? That's quite an ambitious feat.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Well, I think you will know yourself, Janan, as I know you're also undergoing your masters. But as I say to people, if you wait for having some spare time, but that time will never come. So I think it's just um you have to use your time efficiently. Um, I'm you know, I I don't have children, so that does definitely free up a lot of time that people my age would tip would be spending raising children. So I and I think it's it's good, you know. Otherwise, I'd just be watching a lot of TV on the weekends. So it's good to do something meaningful with my time.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Couldn't have put it better myself. All right. So let's go ahead and begin our 15-minute chat. Sure. So, Natasha, tell me about your mornings before the meetings and the big decisions. What does a typical morning look like for you? How do you set the tone for the day?

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Well, I usually wake up around 6:30 a.m. Um, and I like to start the day usually listening to a podcast which is the Bible in one year. I find that spending my day, setting my intentions straight for the day and like what is important to me, and faith is a big part of my life. So I really I like to spend time reflecting on on what you know, what what is God saying to me, or even just setting my intentions right about how I'm gonna act during that day. What sort of um ethos am I gonna bring? And I notice the difference when I when I don't spend time sort of meditating and praying and thinking about the day ahead. Um, from that I go and feed the three uh stray cats that were born in my front yard. So they're very demanding now. Um so I think that's part of every Russell Hammer resident's life is feeding some form of stray animal. Uh so we feed the stray cats, and then I take care of my dog, Amelie. So and then I always, always have a cup of Earl Grey tea to start the day off and get the caffeine going.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yes. Okay. So I cannot survive without a cup of tea in the morning. And Eelgray in particular.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

And are you a breakfast person?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Do you like I do have breakfast, but I have it much later in the morning, so not immediately. I actually can't eat uh straight out of a straight uh immediately in the morning, but I do need a cup of tea to sort of wake me up and get me going.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Excellent. Okay. And um I'm gonna pivot a little bit because uh I know you started your career as a teacher, and that's maybe something that um uh people listening to this podcast might not know. But today you're a leader. So can you take us back? How did that journey unfold? And how did you move from the classroom to building and leading the Alt Clastomy Foundation? Yeah, thank you, Janan.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

And quite a few people also have asked me that. And it's when I graduated actually from high school, I not from high school, sorry, from university, I couldn't get a job. We graduated, I graduated in a very tight labor market, like high unemployment, especially for youth at that time in Australia, nearly 10%. And so I did what most graduates do. If you can't find work, you get a teaching qualification. So it was it was a bit by accident, to be honest, that I that I entered into teaching, but I discovered that I really enjoyed it. And from there, I'd always wanted to work overseas. I'd I'd had a dream to work in the Middle East. I'd studied um Middle Eastern studies at university, I'd studied Arabic and all of this at a time when people weren't very interested in the Middle East. This was in the 90s. Um I had already this desire and this appetite. So I taught in Singapore as a teacher there, and then I taught here in Russell Hama. But I guess a couple of years into that, I started doing uh well, one year into that, I started doing a master's in international development remotely through another university in Australia, through Deacon. And I became very interested in international development and the intersection of that with education. So I decided to apply to do my doctorate at Columbia University in New York. And I did this very naively, thinking, oh, you know, that'll be really easy because in Australia we don't have it's not so competitive to get into university. Um, of course, I was not successful immediately. Um but I did get entry into the master's program at Columbia. So I headed off to teachers college at Columbia University to do a master's. And while I was there, I was very fortunate to be admitted into the doctoral program. Following that, um he I did my doctoral research on the Emirate of Russell Hamer and I'm looking at girls and boys' secondary schools and quality of education for girls and boys, comparing those. And I realized that a lot of um the problem in the Gulf states, they're not we're not aid-dependent, like other countries say, like we don't have a say like Egypt or Syria or Jordan, which have a lot of external aid coming in, and that requires them to produce a lot of reports on education in particular or whatever the sector is. But in the Gulf, we didn't have that. And so we had a lot of people from management consultants or policymakers making decisions about education in particular without really an evidence base from the region and from the UAE. So it became very clear to me that without an evidence base that was drawn from the from the UAE, how could policymakers really make policies that were going to actually be effective in this context? And um that led to a conversation with His Highness, Shekhsaw Adbinsakr al-Kassami, the ruler of Russell Hama, about, you know, hey, what might be nice? Um, if what if we started funding um research into education in Russell Hama? Um, and he, you know, he's very has a really entrepreneurial mindset. And so for it, you know, this is how we came up with the idea of the foundation. We wanted to be something that would generate research on the Emirate that policymakers both in Russell Hama and in the UAE could use to make informed policy decisions. So I was very fortunate that he took a chance on me, in a sense, as the song goes, um, to to set up a foundation and to and to start with that. So we started with two programs. We started with teachers, because teachers are central to any education mission, and we started with doctoral students. Um and so yeah, we went from there from two people in a very small office not far from here to I think over 70 staff today.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Oh wow, that's uh really incredible. And um if I could say, very, very impressive considering um the transition from teaching to leading. And I also didn't know that it was such a um challenging labor market in Australia. I can see some parallels with today's uh.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

I think people forget that it's not always been a lot of these full economies that we see, and that there have been, you know, economies ebb and flow and labor market ebb and flows too.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Of course. And now that you're here uh as a leader, what do you think is the most underrated skill that has helped you develop and advance?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah, you and I were talking about this earlier, but I think it's really perseverance. My story is really a story of setbacks in a sense, but of then trying something different. So, you know, I when I first applied for a job overseas, I didn't get a job in the Middle East, which is why I wanted. So I went to Singapore. And from Singapore, I went to the Middle East. When I applied to do my doctorate, I didn't get admitted, I got admitted the masters. So I went to masters and then I did my doctorate. Um and I think that's something that we're sort of a bit lacking today is this idea that, you know, it doesn't have to be the trajectory of somebody, it isn't a direct line. You don't always go where you want to go directly. Sometimes you take detours, but um sometimes you face setbacks. But I think perseverance is is critical to a successful career. And especially as you get to the upper levels, you have to have a mindset that's like, okay, maybe today is tough, but that's okay. I can do this. Yeah, I can handle it.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

When life gives you lemons, that's right. You can make lemonade. All right, well, we've covered some big topics already, so let's have a little bit of fun. Uh it's time for our wheel of questions, a segment where pretty much anything can come up. Uh Natasha, would you like to give it a spin? Sure. We came to one of the top questions uh right off the bat. Is there any part of your job that you don't like? Give us some context.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

I think the least pleasant part of any any leadership job is human resources. Well, maybe not the least favorite, the the most difficult part, let me say. Um and in particular, having to make difficult decisions about people's employment and letting people go. I think for me, that's the the hardest thing I have to do. I I will never like doing it. Um and I don't think actually you probably should like doing it, but it's uh it's it's very it's very difficult. And I think, but I think it's also something that leaders need to be able to do. It's going up into leadership, people need to you need to really realize that it's not about you know being able to make all the decisions and tell people what to do. All of that may look nice from the outside, but at the end of the day, you're responsible for people's lives. You're responsible indirectly for the lives of their families, and and you feel that responsibility. And I think leaders should feel that responsibility. So when you have to let someone go for whatever reason that is, um it's you're I always have that in the back of my mind of who else is this affecting and how is this affecting the person and what will this mean for them later on. But at the end of the day, as a leader, it's always as I say, you know, it's mission team me. The mission of the organization comes first, our team comes second, and then I try to put myself last. So I think when I put it in that context, it makes it a little easier, but I I will never ever like it. And it's yeah, it's a it's an unfortunate part of the job, it's a necessary part, but it's also a very, very difficult part.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

It takes a lot of courage.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah, it takes a lot of I I think just caring about other people and and trying to do it in the most humane and kindest way possible.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

All right.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Would you mind giving the wheel another spin? There you go. All right. What's common career advice you think sounds good, but doesn't hold up in real life? What's your take instead?

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, I think that I think that goes back to what we were just talking about in sort of perseverance. I think there's a common perception that, you know, you should love your job. You know, if you don't love your job, then you should find something that you love. And I think this is a very first world um view on work in particular. And I think it doesn't help young people today thinking that they should love every aspect of their job. Because as you grow up and as you go through life, you'll realize that every job, every job has parts of it that you don't like, that you don't enjoy. And I think it's it's not always good advice to tell people, oh, well, if you don't like a job, just leave, you know, find something else. I think if the job is toxic or it's really, you know, it's it's just a very unhealthy place to work, or it's not a good fit, perhaps in those cases. But but typically I always encourage people to persevere, at least, you know, maybe to finish a contract or to finish a year, but to show that they can stay the course a bit, because that will be much more attractive to employ employers later on. And they will grow a lot in the process of going through some of these things that aren't maybe comfortable or or fun or enjoyable, but perhaps are really critical for them later in their lives. And I, you know, I recently had a conversation with a young man who's over here from Burundi actually, and he's working his first job. And it is very unpleasant. But I encouraged him to complete the contract, to show that he could do that. And he messaged me um a couple of about a week ago and to telling me that he's actually, after wanting to leave immediately after being here only for three months, he's now been promoted, and things have really turned around. And I was so encouraged by that. And he was so relieved that he hadn't actually thrown in the towel. He's only 19, so it's you know, he's very young. So it was very, I was just very encouraged that he'd taken that advice and he'd seen now some rewards, and he was feeling much more positive about the workplace.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, that's very heartwarming.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yeah.

unknown 16:24

All right.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

That's a happy ending, thankfully. Yeah, not everyone gets that. No, no, no. Alhamdulillah. All right. Can we give the wheel another spin? Beyond the job. So if you weren't leading the Al Qasmi Foundation, what would you be doing instead?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Well, I think we've we've alluded to that in my final career. But yes, I would love to, I'd love to practice as a lawyer. Particular passion um for um um family law, in particular around international family law and sort of women, um, women's rights, sort of how to help women navigate divorce, especially in the international context. We hear a lot of stories in in the Gulf region about uh difficult endings to marriages. And I think there's a need for um for other women, for female lawyers to help women in those situations. I think also uh there's a there's a great need in general for lawyers in rural Australia. So I'm very keen to be able to give back to the community that I came from and to be able to provide good advice for people in those communities that maybe can't afford it and and just don't have access to it.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Of course, of course, that's incredibly important and also um a really cool progression from here, I would say. Can you give the wheel around? One last final interaction. All right. This is actually the question I wanted to ask you. So what's one book, podcast, or TV show that you think more people should be paying attention to right now?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Well, a book that I ask all of you to read at the foundation, especially in the research team, is a book called As You Know Empire of Pain, uh, which is about the Sackler family and the opioid epidemic. Um it's also been made into I think into a short docudrama, but it is an amazing book if people want to understand the intersection between philanthropy and um uh and how comp corporations act, perhaps not in our best interests. I think it's it's a real eye-opener. I think anyone interested in public policy, and anyone interested in, you know, sort of human rights or or anything like that actually should should read the book to have a new more nuanced view. And on a lighter note, I'm watching, currently watching uh Tehran uh series three, which is uh an amazing uh spy thriller if you're interested in uh in regional events that sort of has a very uh topical take on on the situations that we're seeing around us today. But it's a yeah, it's on the edge of your seat uh series. So yes, I can't recommend Tehran enough. It sounds like uh I was gonna say page turner, but I know it's a TV show. It's a TV show, but it feels like it feels like a page turner. So it's it's a great spy uh nuanced uh look at look at various situations here in the region that I think people would really enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Well, I'll be sure to tune in. Um all right, Natasha. I just have one final question for you before we wrap up this episode. So you've built platforms for research, for educators, for artists, and now for leaders through C Suite Talks. Why do you think this kind of leadership dialogue is particularly important in the UAE at this point in time?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I think not just the UAE, but in general, we're saturated with leadership. Talks, books, podcasts, YouTube, clips, Instagram, everywhere. But I I don't think enough of these um platforms or books address the reality of leadership. I do think that this this glossy ideals and and a lot of um I think it's unrealistic and and it doesn't help young people particularly understand what it really takes to be in leadership. It is uh it is very hard. It requires a lot of sacrifice, it requires a lot of empathy, it requires putting yourself in in my view, it taking a servant leadership approach, putting yourself last. Not in the way of you don't take care of yourself or you're not mindful of your mental health and all those things, but in the sense that you have to think of the welfare of others. And I also think these these talks have been wonderful. I've enjoyed listening to all of the ones you've done so far. So well done to you and Derek.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Um it's just helping people see the reality of leadership, you know, the nitty, the nitty-gritty of it, the fun of it, or the downsides of it, but this the complexity of leadership. And I think by letting people tell their stories in a short, digestible amount, but letting them tell it in a in a real way, it gives people an idea of do I really, you know, do I want to be in leadership? Because in the end, not everyone uh should go into lead or want, you know, want to be in in leadership. But for those who do, it gives them a bit of a, I hopefully a bit of a more real idea about what does it mean? You know, what is it gonna be like? Um, what are what are the tough moments going to be? And I and I just think a lot of those conversations are a bit lacking at the moment. So I so far you've been doing a great job, the pair of you. And I think uh that's gonna really hopefully make a difference, even if it's just a small difference to how we really think about leadership and how we um how we sort of think about leaders as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Thank you, Natasha. That was a very kind compliment. Um all right, so we've kind of come to the end of the podcast. Uh C-Suite Talks exists because you believe leadership deserved a different kind of spotlight, less formal and more real. Natasha, thank you for that vision and for bringing that vision to life. And thank you for stepping into the guest chair with us today. It's been an absolute pleasure to have this conversation. And uh yeah, please keep tuning in to our episodes. We're really excited for everything that's coming ahead. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Thank you, Janan. And yes, it's it's a different, certainly a different uh perspective sitting in the chair. So thank you so much for your kind questions and yes, your thoughtfulness. And thank you to all the team who's who's all around us now. So thank you, everyone. And enjoy the podcast and tune in and don't miss the future episodes as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Thanks for joining us on C Suite Talks, where we bring global and local insights from the heart of Russell Khmer to the world.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Be sure to follow, share, and tune in next time for another 15 minute conversation about what it really takes to lead.