Fabio Piano: The Formula for Excellence

Fabio Piano believes excellence has a formula, and it starts with getting the first ingredient right. In this episode of (C) Suite Talks, the vice chancellor and chief executive of NYU Abu Dhabi explains how an exceptional founding class of students raised standards across NYU Abu Dhabi, drew in outstanding faculty, and began a virtuous cycle that has carried the institution ever since.

In just over 15 minutes, he shares what scientific research taught him about trusting teams, why he looks for curiosity over brilliance when hiring, and why he believes the best institutions engineer the conditions for excellence rather than simply chase it.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:03

How'd you build a great university of the future? I would certainly have probably said, you know, you bring the most incredibly talented faculty and you build around that. What turned out to be the case that we are in a slightly different model is we started with the faculty that we could bring from New York and slowly build the excellent faculty without ever taking shortcuts. But start from building the most incredible student body one can find around the world and everything else will work out. So I would say a secret component of our success has been the focus on the students from all over.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

And I'm Derek Zeno from the Alkatomi Foundation.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Welcome to C Suite Talks, a podcast about what it really means to lead.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

We're talking to the people behind the titles to hear their stories, lessons, and a few surprises along the way.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Because leadership is more than just the corner office. It's personal.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh, I'm great. Uh, and thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

It's our pleasure. Fabio, one of the things that piques my interest in your story is that you've been working at NYU Abu Dhabi from the beginning. You served as provost for 10 years from 2010 to 2020, and now you're leading the university as interim vice chancellor and chief executive. But your path into leadership didn't begin in administration. You began as a biologist, someone trained to study systems, patterns, and basically the details that shape life. In a way, that makes your connection to NYU Abu Dhabi especially interesting. This is also a story about growth. University built in Abu Dhabi, connected to New York, and brought to life by students and faculty from around the world. So, like we mentioned before, you're a biologist by training and you helped build one of the most internationally diverse universities in the world from the ground up. At what point did you realize that building institutions and building knowledge were basically the same project?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

That's a great question. And it's also interesting to hear that story. Of course, I'm I yeah, I'm myself a product even earlier of NYU because I have been an international student at NYU before even all of that. So wow. There was a deep connection, I think, with the idea of creating NYU Abu Dhabi from the very beginning. Um, but your question is really about what what makes the building of institutions and in fact developing new knowledge kind of connected. And I think that's a deeper question. But clearly it's about specific types of institutions, and universities are that institution. And it's a combination, of course, of the people that come together. And the modern universities, I'm going to say, are really built around the idea that it's a critical mass of thinkers, of people that just question the world. And so questioning the world is essentially what great universities do. And by doing that, you just cannot avoid but creating new knowledge. So there's the same thing. Now, we would question things in our biological systems before, but you can question anything about how the world works, why does it work the way it does? And when you bring people from all over the world, um the questions are very diverse and in fact much more exciting than if you always lived in the same place and only came from the same background. So it's in fact a lot more accelerated the possibility of new knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Absolutely. And I think New York University Abu Dhabi does such a great job of developing critical thinkers. And I have had so many um conversations with our research interns who've come from NYU, and I was like, damn, like this is this is actually excellent, high-quality education right over here in Abu Dhabi.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

So um Well, I will say, you know, it's funny because you use that phrase, and and we use it all the time. Internally, we think of it as critical thinking. But to me, it's just a just another way for saying questioning, right? Because critical thinking allows you to say, well, I'm looking at something, but do I really believe it or do I really want to question it? And that is the concept of you know, digging deeper and getting more information and perhaps realizing that not all the information is there, which leads you to then develop new knowledge. So it's all very connected.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Absolutely. You need to ask better questions.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

All right. Our 15-minute conversation begins now.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

All right. So I want to ask you a quick question about your morning routine. Um, could you walk us through your typical morning from when you wake up to how you prepare yourself for the day ahead?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

It's really an interesting question because I, you know, I should tell you that I get up early and do my exercises and do all the things that one is supposed to do. But in fact, instead of physical exercises, I tend to start with a routine that is actually free of the thinking, the moment, the quiet of the morning. And I happen to wake up a little earlier right now than the rest of my family and have that time to really imagine, uh, both visioning things about, of course, the university, but also connected to that, what I think are the biggest challenges of the world, which is an incredible moment to be able to do that. That leads me quickly to develop a specific question, perhaps, that I want to think about. And that leads me down a little bit of a rabbit hole, usually. Uh, but I give myself that freedom to exercise my mind in the morning, at least for for a few minutes before the day takes over with all the things that happen.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

I like that. That's a very intellectual start to your morning.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

It's brain exercise as opposed as opposed to physical exercise. I should do the second more.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

And do you uh are you a coffee drinker? What's your beverage of choice?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Oh, I'm Italian. So the answer is by default, I'm a coffee drinker. I love my morning coffee for sure.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Awesome, awesome. All right. Um, and I want to ask you, um, because of course you were a research scientist before you became a university leader. So looking back, what did your years as a research scientist teach you that leadershaped the way you approached building and leading a university?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

You know, at the time I didn't know. Because when you start your own work and career-wise, you know, I started my lab uh, in fact, at NYU as a as a my first independent lab. I was doing research obviously throughout before, but um, the first thing you think about when you build a new lab is the team you're going to put together. So one of the things that I think people working in science in particular are, without necessarily knowing this, they're very well trained for, is how to build teams. And in fact, to even be dependent on the teams. So there's no way we could do the work of the complex science work that I love to do individually. So you have to assemble people, many of whom could even be better than you are in very specific areas. So you learn how to work together as a team to make bigger things happen. And I think that's a great training towards administrative jobs. And I'll say the thing that I think is really important is to be genuinely excited about other people's success. Otherwise, you know, this becomes a very difficult job. But um, as a scientist, I think all of those things were part of the training without me realizing it.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Yeah, building knowledge is um extremely important, but also you have to have that teamwork in place and you have to trust the people that you're working with to make sure that you can ask questions together and I mean search for answers and see if you can uh and find see if you can find them.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Um so coming back to um, you know, the skills that you were developing in the lab, maybe developing your team, in your opinion, what do you think is the most underrated skill that has helped you lead across like different contexts, including the lab, the classroom, and of course the boardroom?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Yeah, that's interesting. That's you know, I don't know if these are all underrated, but I I found that um there's a there's a version of what I call uh intuition that um in fact is uh the way I think of it, uh, is very much grounded on depth of knowledge. And you sometimes don't know why you have such an intuition, but if you have that depth, you can in fact then guide uh people towards something. So, for example, I believe that we have a very strong vision of what NY Abu Dhabi is for. And that creates, I think, uh a unique capacity for me to have an intuition towards how we should develop um everything that we do. And the stronger that vision, mission, concept is, the more you are confident of your intuition and you can guide um experts that might actually have better knowledge on their domain, but you have a better intuition about the whole thing. And so you can bring that together. And so, in some sense, it also comes back to a second, I would put a second one in there, which is um a level of humility that makes other people comfortable. So you can sort of say, look, I may not be the best at what you you are because that's your domain expertise, but I'm trying to learn why you would say that in the context of what we're trying to do. Or if I see a result even in a in a in a in a scientific uh domain, I would question that result if it doesn't make any sense, even if it's not something I would know how to do. Yeah. So intuition, I think, is quite powerful, actually.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Absolutely. Intuition, humility, all of these are extremely important. Um, and I think I would imagine it it matters even more in a place like that is as international as NYU ObleW. All right. Um, we've been talking about the deeper side of science, leadership, and institutions, but this is where our conversation gets a little bit more spontaneous. I know you are eyeing our wheel of questions and we're going to bring it to the scene.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Um, so welcome, Fabio, to our wheel of questions, which is a lighter segment when the wheel chooses the direction. Okay. Would you mind giving us? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Okay. I think it's biased, huh? There's many ones here. Do you want me to no joke? See, almost got to one. Seven.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Seven. All right. Who outside academia do you admire most?

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Oh, that's the most difficult one of them all because it's very personal. I mean, they're all personal, right? But this one, I have to say my dad.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Your dad.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Uh, who passed away a few years ago. And I admire him in many, many aspects of having, of course, helped me grow up into the person that I am. But also in developing a sort of a North Star of how to live a life that is very um full and rich, and you know, a curious life, a life uh of helping others. And I I always look to that as a lesson for my whole life. And that would be outside of academia.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Of course. I mean your moral compass, yes. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

It's also, but it's so it's just a model, right? When yeah, when you grow up in a tight family, uh, I think I'm very lucky because I was able to have that experience.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Thank you for sharing that. That was very vulnerable and I really appreciated it.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I could I could have cheated. I don't remember the questions, but I could have said, oh, look, it's number one. You want me to do this again? Let's see. Please. Four.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Number four. Ooh, when interviewing someone for your team, what are your top green and red flags?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I I would say number one is curiosity. Because curiosity comes from uh also the same essence of being open, uh, being also able to say, I don't know, being able to say, but I want to find out. Oh, that's something I really am interested in, but I don't know. But at the same time, I want to know more.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Uh, and curiosity also allows you to be open to others, to be listening more. So these are all connected to the green uh flags of somebody's uh somebody's uh essence. But I would also say a sense of humor is really important because curiosity and the depth they can come with uh a sense of real intensity. In academia, there's a lot of very people that dedicate their lives to studying one thing, and so that that is very curious, but that can come with intensity. But if you have a lightness, uh it can draw other people in as well. And so a sense of humor seems very important to me.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

And I think in some of our last couple of months with our troubled times, we would benefit from a little sense of humor that allows people to get together and definitely find find a mechanism to get out of this mess.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Definitely, definitely. That's that brings out so much warmth and lightness in people, and also I think it's heavily connected to optimism.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Uh seeing the you know, the bright light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

That's another good word because you know, in some ways, sometimes the world is full of complexity, but seeing through it and and recognizing that you know, deeply we all more or less have this very strong common energy towards good is very important for people to have that. And so all of this I think lead to optimism in some ways. So you used one other word that is very good, yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Now you want me to talk about red flags.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yeah, I was uh gonna ask you about that.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

I don't know. Uh I it's I mean, I suppose the opposite of all the stuff we've been talking about. But but um when I was uh building the genome center in New York, I remember sitting around with uh colleagues and saying what would be the characteristics that we would have. And and of course, you can put them on on a piece of paper until you meet people you don't know. Yeah, but we came up with one sentence that is not our sentence, but we all agreed we would all not hire brilliant jerks. So we just didn't want to that. We don't we don't want to have that. People with a chip on their shoulder, but you know, and that's difficult because they could be brilliant, yeah, right? But they have a sense of personality that will not collaborate, that will not necessarily affect the group in a good way, and also even if they're very, very good, be hard to work with and those kinds of uh aspects of it. I think there's a level of harmony that you want to maintain to be to be really excellent, yeah. Um and I think that that's really important.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah, people who gel with the institutional culture and can accommodate other people and fit in, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

You know, it's it's kind of what I said before about intuition could come with arrogance.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Um and I think uh I mean to talk about humility was so that you do you know, not arrogance, but confidence.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Absolutely and they're very different. Well said, well said. Would you mind giving the wheel another spin?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Number two.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

If you weren't leading NYUW, what do you think you would be doing instead?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

So I've realized over over my history that I like to build things. So I'll be building something, I think. I also from the time that I was really little, I had a book of inventions. So I would, I would, I would probably uh continue, and that's probably why I became a researcher, because I I like to invent new things, I like to invent um maybe uh tools, techniques, and things that can help humanity. But I I I've become unfortunately hooked on what what would be the biggest problems of humanity. So in order to do those kinds of inventions, one has to build institutions and build communities that can attack most the most uh vexing problems for the future of humanity. And of course, that could come with maybe writing some maybe articles, if not books. Um, those those kinds of things I would probably I would probably do. Or just cook.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

I was gonna say spoken like a true researcher.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Well, yeah, I love I'm just insatiably curious, I have to say. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

I think we can tell from your very impressive bookcase.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Well, no, a lot of those books are our faculty and our students and our researchers that wrote them. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Super cool. All right, let's give the wheel one last spin. Is there any part of your job that you don't like?

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yes, of course. Uh, but actually that has to do connected to some of the other things that we've talked about. They have to do with um I I particularly like harmony among people. And and so if I have to give bad news in a way that I know that it's not um well received, that it's especially potentially in some of the people that I respect. Um and I know that's gonna be landing in a difficult way. Yeah, but that's that's something I really don't like to do. Yeah. Um, so that um that's some and unfortunately in the world that we're in, uh, to reach the level of excellence that we have to have, the bar is very high. And so sometimes very, very excellent people don't reach it. And so unfortunately we we have that in our system, but that's the worst thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah, yeah. That's very honest. And I think um any administrator, anyone in a position of leadership would agree that disappointing people we respect or delivering sometimes difficult news is a very difficult part of the job.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Well, Fabio, before we close, I want to zoom out a little. You were part of NYU Obly before it had a single graduating class, and now you're helping lead it through, of course, another important chapter. At its heart, NYU Oblaby is about global citizenship, knowledge, human understanding, and service to society. Twenty years from now, when people look back on this university story, what do you hope they say NYU Abu W stood for? And what chapter do you hope you helped write?

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Well, listen, I I think that um I believe NY Abu Dhabi is a a type of institution that is hard to define. I think people find it difficult to define us in traditional metrics. And that's because we are none of those places exactly, but we are transforming in some sense what higher education is going to be in the future. And that's based on the fact that we are undergoing a tremendous quick change in global society, that uh the institutions like traditional types of universities take a long, long time to um adapt. And I feel that NOA Dhabi is in fact one of those places that will be looked at 20 years from now as in fact having been demonstrated to be forward-thinking, innovative, and and capable of doing the kinds of things that the future global society needs. And it starts from being global, right? And therefore, I think that the chapter should be really focusing on the global nature of global aspect of NY Abu Dhabi. Uh, and at the same time, for institution building of a university type, yeah, I would say that there is no better angle than to start to think about the things you build and the things you do, but through the eyes of the students. And if you do that, all the other types of decisions, all the other types of things one has to do become a lot easier. And so if people were to say, you know, before I did this, how do you how'd you build a great university of the future? I would certainly have probably said, you know, you bring the most incredibly talented faculty and you build around that. What turned out to be the case that we are a slight different model is we started with the faculty that we could bring from New York because we had such an incredible capacity for doing that, and and slowly build the excellent faculty without ever taking shortcuts, but start from building the most incredible good student body one can find around the world, and everything else will work out. So I would say a secret component of our success has been the focus on the students from all over the world.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Absolutely. Yeah. NYO ABUDABI is the definition of a global university. And I think, I mean, of course, I'm connected to a lot of NYO Abu Dhabi students who have since graduated. And every year around commencement, I see the posts that they share on LinkedIn. And all of those posts are incredibly heartfelt, um, very appreciative, and I think also reflective of the kind of spirit and the values that the university has. So it's it's very heartwarming to hear you talk about your faculty and your students um in this way. And I think, of course, any students and faculty that hear this will also um.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, but I want to make sure I I also um say it correctly in the sense you you did the you did say well. By that I mean is the start, right? And if you do it through the start of looking at the everything you do through that um angle, everything else falls into place. Yeah, by that I mean for and you said it, for example, as we went through all the faculty that would be the kinds of faculty. So I'll back up by saying the kinds of students that we recruit really are in some way, they can go anywhere. Yeah. And they can start with us and then go anywhere. Yeah. So conceptually, you realize that if you bring that quality, you also demand the quality. Everywhere else. And it pushes everybody, right? And so it it has it, in fact, is the case that for the long term, the fantastic faculty that stay with you for decades develop the whole culture of the place over time in ways that I think demonstrates that excellence. And the excellence then starts to feed on itself. The excellent students will bring the excellent faculty, and excellent faculty will bring the excellent students and the other faculty. So it's all a very a virtual cycle. But I just think that the kernel of the start was unusual because often people would start with thinking that that you don't actually, oddly enough, start with the students when you think of universities. Yeah. But we did. We did from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

From the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Yeah. And look, I think, is it 17, 16, 17 years later?

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Something like that, yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Yeah. No, it's absolutely incredible just how far the university has come, how um how involved the faculty are, the students are. I have so many friends who either work in like among the staff, or even from, of course, the university students who have since become, you know, alumni of this uh fantastic university.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

And you know, I meet people here now in my role that uh often come in this office and they tell me, you know, I've started a new company or I'm building a branch of a big company. I've now met your graduates, and I'm in one case, I won't name the name, but they said, I'm gonna shut down our recruitment effort in the United States because I just want to recruit NY Abu Dhabi students.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

That that con that I just want to recruit NY Abu Dhabi students is absolutely not unique. But actually shutting down your other recruitment of all the other parts of the world because you just want to focus here, that seems uh kind of amazing.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah, that's testament to the quality that these students, these graduates can bring to the table in any company. And I think uh we also have five, I think over five um NYUB graduates, including actually some of the staff who are in this room today helping to record this episode. So shout out to um all of our uh lovely NYUB graduates who are now Class Me Foundation staff members. Um, but also I guess thank you, uh, Fabio, on on their behalf and also um, you know, for this extremely thoughtful conversation. I had such a nice time.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

And what I'll take from your story is that a university is built day by day through people, ideas, trust, and of course, the questions that a community chooses to ask and answer together. It's really been a pleasure having you with us. Um, and yeah, here's the curiosity, connection, and the kind of work that leaves something meaningful behind. Thank you so much for your. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. Thanks a lot. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Thanks for joining us on C Suite Talks, where we bring global and local insights from the heart of Russell Khima to the world.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Be sure to follow, share, and tune in next time for another 15 minute conversation about what it really takes to lead.