The Dominion War: How Starfleet Abandoned Its Morals

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In this episode of Acceptable Losses, DK and Kirioth dive into the most devastating conflict the United Federation of Planets has ever faced: The Dominion War. After discovering a shortcut to the Gamma Quadrant via the Bajoran Wormhole, the Federation accidentally attracts the attention of the most ruthless force in the galaxy. The guys break down the terrifying efficiency of the Dominion, an empire ruled by the mythic, shapeshifting Founders and enforced by the genetically engineered, drug-dependent Jem'Hadar. Tune in as we discuss how a desperate Starfleet was forced to completely abandon its morals to survive. From Section 31's deployment of a genocide-inducing virus against the Changelings to Elim Garak's cold-blooded assassination plots to drag the Romulans into the fight, this is Star Trek at its absolute darkest.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:16

So acceptable losses, you horrible lot. This is different. This is fresh. This is new. Instead of me, Kirioth, ruining DK's day, DK is going to ruin my day. It's so horribly exciting in a I can't wait to find out just how many people died, especially based off the last one you you uh assaulted me with. That was all horrible shipwreck nonsense.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

So that's you know, the the death toll on this one is going to far exceed that one. So at least this is fictional, though. Like, you know, also that was that was a stunningly British intro. Like, welcome back, you or you! That was great. Phenomenal. You should do it every time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

I don't I think people get bored of that real quick. What they won't get bored of though, what a segue, is the Acceptable Losses Patreon. Now, if you head over there, you can follow us for free. You'll get a free gift of an episode. However, if you support us and become a Grimdark enjoyer, you'll get ad-free content and early access to episodes and bonus episodes that are exclusive to Patreon itself. So if you're enjoying all of this and you've run out of this to listen to, good news, there is plenty more to be had. Now, just just hit me with it. What what are you making me miserable with today?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Oh, well, today you're getting made miserable with it's it's a Star Trek episode. It is the Dominion War. So, you know, just it's a cheeky uh Star Trek war. And I I even have a quote for you right off the get-go to really let it sink in. Just how bad the Dominion War gets. Here you go, Kyriath.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Okay, alright. You may win this war, Commander, but I promise you, when it is over, you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your victory will taste as bitter as defeat. Well, okay, that go that goes hard. Unpleasant, but hard.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, yeah, and boy, uh I I hadn't seen Star Trek Deep Space Nine in a while, and just buckle in. So let's get this thing underway. Uh so we're gonna do a little introduction first. Um, the galaxy of Star Trek serves as sort of this constant source of exploration for those lucky enough to join the United Federation of Planets. When the events we're about to talk about take place, the Federation itself is maybe 200 years old, which sounds like a lot, but by galactic standards, they are fairly new. They're basically fresh out of the womb. Maybe not fresh out of the womb, but you get the idea. And humanity, more so as like their entry to the stars is only like a hundred years prior to that. I mean, considering like the other uh alien races you have in Star Trek, Klingons have had space travel since the 14th century, and the Vulcans even earlier than that. Uh, humans are a young species that oftentimes show their age through a bit of kind of childlike naivete. In the short time the Federation has existed, uh, it's encountered other galactic powers that lend that that tend to be a bit more cut and dry when it comes to their uh their motives, their intentions. Like the Klingons are your obvious warrior race, they've got a code of honor and wish to ultimately just steamroll those that are in their way. Romulans are masters of covert tactics and espionage that wish to take on adversaries through sort of cunning manipulation in the shadows. And more recently, uh, by galactic standards, the monolithic Boar Collective sort of pose this existential threat where they're not necessarily looking for conquest so much as they are just looking to assimilate everything. And all of these threats are, of course, I mean, they're not spectacular per se. Like they pose a myriad of problems in their own rights, but they kind of have their own flaws. Like the Klingons are so fueled by honor and war and combat, but they're also sort of run down by their own hubris. Uh the Romulans are covert, but their distrust is something that is turned inward on themselves. They can't even trust themselves.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

And I was gonna say, are they the one I I I have watched a fair bit of Star Trek, but I didn't ever really get into Deep Space Nine, which I feel like that's where the Romulans got a lot of a lot of airtime, it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Well, were you ever into uh next gen? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I was gonna say, when when I think when I think of Romulans, I think of uh Tasha's wayward Romulan daughter and how kind of sneaky she is. And I also think about that episode where they have the um the Romulan spy, but he's very like, oh, I don't know if I should be doing this. Oh, oh, I am turning my back on the Romulan Empire, but if anybody finds out about this, and he ends up kind of dying. And I I forget exactly how it goes, but yeah, they're sh they're shady. Uh Romulans are obviously based on Roman Empire. They're even called Romulus and Remus, founders of Rome. Yeah, yeah, they are. So that's the Romulans, uh, and the Borg's parasitic and instinctual desire to assimilate stuff. That can you can stall that, you can reroute that, you can even, as far as the assimilation goes, there is technology to destroy it and undo it. Which, you know, again, if you're a big TNG nerd, you know all about Lacutis. Uh the Federation, though having resources to be like their mirror counterparts, they don't really prioritize any form of conquest during their travels. It's diplomacy, it's scientific research, it's it's taking your time with stuff. It's it's exploration. Federation loves exploration.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

And not having not having space travel for a while and then suddenly being able to zip all over the place. I feel like that's gotta be a sensible first step for most like species that suddenly discover how to do that. You're gonna want to know what is out there, and by like out there, suddenly out there is everything. Just as far as we can go, as quickly as we can, we want to know what the rest of the universe is like. I think that's one of the things that makes the Federation so like fun when you first start watching Star Trek. It's like, oh bless them. They just want to know all the things.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

It's it's kind of like when you're when you're when you're a teenager and you get your first car, and it's like, oh man, I can go anywhere, I can explore anything, I can go on a cross-country road trip and nobody can stop me. And it's like, I want to see everything. I want to find out about everything. And the Federation does kind of have that sort of like, you know, oh man, I finally got my first car. Let's road trip, let's see all the states, let's see all the state park kind of vibe for sure. But this has caused the Federation to become a bit complacent uh with predictability, uh, something that would prove to be a little bit of a dangerous flaw. Completely by accident, uh, the Federation would stumble into a new and glorious opportunity to explore without considering the consequences. Um, because when you're just out there constantly exploring, you're you got that childlike wonder and everything seems great, but not all species in the galaxy have that same curious ambition. Some species are so old and so unified that they've already reached like the peak of their own societal needs, and feel as though curiosity isn't necessarily something to be praised and isn't necessarily something you should have. It's a symptom of something else. It's a symptom of a total lack of control. Traveling around and seeking out new things and worlds only feeds into sort of the chaos of the galaxy. And the only way to calm that sort of chaos, the chaos of the universe, is to bind it to your will. So today, on Acceptable Losses, we are very excited. Possum is very excited to talk about, in the most self-indulgent way imaginable, the most devastating conflict the United Federation of Planets has faced in Star Trek. The Dominion War. So excited as well. Like, really, really excited to do this one. This is easily the best part of Deep Space Nine. Like, there's some cool episodes in Deep Space Nine before they hit this point. But oh brother, the Dominion War is the reason to watch Deep Space Nine. To me, obviously, everybody's got their own opinions, but to me, the Dominion Wars just peak Deep Space Nine. Uh also just remember um this Dominion War takes place over a vast majority of Deep Space Nine. That is a lot to put in one episode. Possum did their absolute damnedest, but if a reference from your favorite episode or a quote from your favorite character doesn't show up, it's just because it's a lot to condense into one episode, and Possum has done their damnedest. So, I have another quote for you, Kiria, then it's another real fun one. Hell yeah. There you go, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Every Friday morning for the past three months, I've posted the official list of Starfleet personnel killed, wounded, or missing in the war. It's become something of a grim ritual round here. Not a week goes by that someone doesn't find the name of a loved one, a friend or an acquaintance on that damn list. I've grown to hate Fridays. Commander Benjamin Sisko. Oh, that is grim.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

That is yeah, that yeah. But you know what? Before we delve too far into that quote and just how terrible it is, to begin, it's probably best we just at this point take a step back and talk about the way the galaxy is separated in terms of like stellar cartography of Star Trek. So, United Federation of Planets has mapped out the Milky Way galaxy and separated it into uh four distinct quadrants. We've got the Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta quadrants. Uh the problem is that there's quite a lot of bleeding through when it comes to the borders of these quadrants. And outside some very old star charts of the Alpha Quadrant and the lower bit that's connected to the beta quadrant, and come some some kind of shoddy scenes in random episodes, and there's no real official map, and there's kind of a lot of episodes have dialogue that kind of contradicts certain locations. Uh so realistically, when you're mapping this out for fans and people to see and read, you gotta use a little bit of your imagination. So, Alpha Quadrant is the home base of the humans and the United Federation of Planets as a whole. And you've also got your trills, your Tellorites, and your betazoids here. Um if you remember, if you've watched any Deep Space Nine, the Trills are uh that's like uh I believe that's Jadzia Dax. They have like these symbiotic sort of I think they've got like symbiotic slugs in their head that have all the memories of their past hosts and the thing gets passed on from host to host to host. It's a big deal to get uh, you know, a trill. Um I forget what the telerite.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

They've got like the the patterns as well, like the down the sides of the neck and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Mm-hmm. That's them. I always love the trills. I always thought they were really, really cool. Yeah, man. That's cool. Tell it, I kinda don't remember when I looked them up. They kinda um, they kind of look like this sort of humanoid, I don't want to say a pig race, but kinda sorta. And then obviously you kind of know what a beta zoid is, right? You got your classic Deanna Troy, we've got uh empathy, telepathy type thing. As far as other major presences are concerned, the Alpha Quadrant is also home to the Cardassian Union. Uh, if you're looking at a map, this quadrant is in the bottom left, is the Alpha Quadrant. Uh the Beta Quadrant is where a great deal of fighting has taken place over the centuries because of the huge factions that reside here. Uh, the Beta Quadrant is home to the planet of Vulcan, meaning obviously the Federation has pretty close connections here, uh, but it also has the home of the Klingon Empire as well as the Romulan Star Empire. So you got a lot of heads budding in there. Also, fun fact, until Possum wrote this script, I did not realize the Romulan Empire was called a Star Empire. I thought it was just the Romulan Empire, and I think a Star Empire is a sick as hell name.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

I'm sure I've just heard Romulan Empire before, but Star Empire is simply better.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

So cool. Oh, it's simply better. But Beta Quadrant, this is in the uh this is in the bottom right. In the upper right is the Delta Quadrant, which is extremely difficult to get to thanks to the warring powers in the Beta Quadrant. Uh the USS Voyager's Journey, one of my favorite Star Trek series because it's so goofy. Um, the USS Voyager Journey home from this sector of space provides us with basically all that we know about this area, other than the fact that it is very well known to the Federation that the Borg have originated from here. The most important sector for this episode today involves the Gamma Quadrant in the top left-hand corner. Uh, despite being on the same half of the map as the Alpha Quadrant, travel into this quadrant is exceptionally difficult because, again, things are just really, really far away from it. So the Federation and most of the space that encompasses it is close to the bottom of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant. And unlike other quote-unquote sci-fi IPs that we talk about, uh, this galaxy is still not completely mapped out. And even in the far future series of the franchise, it remains that way. There is a lot of space to explore, even in the borders of the Federation itself. And even though warp speed is really fast, it's still days and weeks to get from point A to point B at the best of times. Like if you've watched any Star Trek, you know they'll be like, oh yeah, you know, warp factor eight, and it'll still take them like months or even years at the worst to get somewhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Unless unless you've got the uh unless you've got the old experimental spore drive that everyone really liked. Unless you got that, that can be Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Boy, I had blown that right out of my mind. And you said that and it came back, and it was like, oh, oh, well, you know, well, I found what nah look don't even with the one fan of Voyager shy. There's at least 10. Come on, be fair. Yeah, come on. Like, look, am I saying it's the best Star Trek franchise ever? No. But, you know, it's alright, stop it. So, anyway, uh, even with warp travel, traveling from the Alpha Quadrant to the Gamma Quadrant would take an eternity. Thankfully, the next section that we're going to talk about is called amply titled The Shortcut. Fortunately, there would indeed be a shortcut. Near the planet of Bajor in the Denorios Belt was a wormhole. Uh, due to this area generally being avoided, it would remain undiscovered until the year 2369. This was a year that the Cardassian occupation of the Bajoran system would end, and in order to keep peace, Starfleet would occupy the Terek Noor space station which orbited Bajor, renaming it Bum Bada Bum, Deep Space Nine. Also, for context about this absolutely awful occupation, in Star Trek, you do not want your planet occupied by Cardassians. But for context about it, it was its own just absolutely horrific nightmare. Uh the Bajorans were once a very peaceful race, and the Cardassians would forever alter this with their occupation. Uh, over the course of 50 years and the death of over fifteen million Bajorans. Jesus. Yeah. It would change these people to an even split of rebellious resistance fighters and religious extremists. Uh the final Cardassian that served as the prefect for Bajor was named Dukat. Gol Dukat. The actor that plays him is phenomenal. Um, and he will become important later. Actually, he'll be important throughout. Um, the commander of the station would be Benjamin Sisko, and he would find this wormhole along with his science officer Jadzia Dax, the trill we were talking about earlier, while exploring for reported anomalies in the Denorios belt. Due to the monumental nature of its discovery, the entire station is moved just outside of the terminus point of this wormhole for further study and security. An unusual factor with this wormhole was that actually, this wormhole, inside this wormhole, it's actually occupied. Uh inside the wormhole were this alien race, I guess you could call it an alien race, that were referred to as the prophets. Uh they were unknowable and generally speaking, didn't usually concern themselves with the matters of those on sort of the the regular plane of existence. But the Bajorans knew of them and just worshiped them as gods. Also, there is a picture of the wormhole.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

That looks surprisingly good for when that would have been when that would have been made CGI-wise.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

To be fair, I feel like Star Trek always did the sort of space CGI and the space scenes really, really well. I think obviously not for this one. They always use like really detailed like models for their stuff. Obviously, for a CGI wormhole, you can't really do that, but I think they did pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I I have a small question, but I I'm worried it might inevitably somehow spoil something later on. Are we talking profits? Are we talking like could mess with reality outside of the wormhole and simply choose not to? Or are we talking they are like they're in there, they're not coming out, but no one else could really get them out if they wanted to either?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

I feel like we will be talking a little bit about something like that later.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Okay, so I will shut my face.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Don't worry, I have been in your exact spot, and instead of taking the high road, I just blitz forward with the question, and then Shy yells at me. So I think you have taken the proper road here. But Cisco himself would encounter these entities, and Possum says, and his existence is a direct result of them, but don't worry about that right now. Um, but Sisko meets them in the wormhole, and he, or I guess he doesn't meet them in the wormhole, but he meets these entities and he was deemed to be their emissary. Uh the wormhole was highly unusual in its stability. And the distance between one end and the other end of this wormhole is just it's kind of unfathomable. The exit location of this wormhole would be deep within the gamma quadrant, about 5,000 light years away from the Idrin system, meaning that in total, the distance from one end to the other was actually 90,000 light years. It was stated that it would have taken the most technologically advanced ship in 2369 almost 70 years of non-stop maximum warp to travel that kind of distance.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Oh, so when when you say a shortcut, you you really do mean a shortcut, like a proper.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Oh yeah, this is this is like what's what's the the Mario shortcut that will get you from like, oh yeah, you're in zone one to like zone eight. It's yeah. And this is this is instant. This isn't like, oh yeah, it'll take you five minutes, or oh, it'll only take you one. This is instant.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

It literally removes the need for a generation ship where you'd have to have like multiple lifetimes of people manning it just to get there. You could just go through the wormhole and it'll be instant. Yeah. That's holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

You'd never have the Aniara problem. Anyway. Oh God, they'd love that, wouldn't I? Jesus. I felt like it was the right time to just drop that one in your life. Anyway, the newfound way to travel to an otherwise uncharted area of space was a monumental uh event to the scientific minds of the Federation, which obviously immediately they start sending out ships into the other end to establish colonies and start exploring. One of these colonies would be called New Bajor and would house over a hundred thousand people. It would also be a very monumental event for the Ferengi, which are sort of your trader race. They love doing a bit of trade, they love doing a little bit of the Ferengi are. You get it, you understand. I don't need to explain the Ferengi to you, um, who were eager to barter for rare and exciting goods that could be marked up for much higher price points to those near Deep Space Nine. Uh the Grand Nagus of the Ferengi would inform straight-lace businessmen and Ferengi barkeep and one of the greatest characters in Deep Space Nine, Quark, that he needed to be, he needed to be the one to break ground in the Gamma Quadrant to potentially make the greatest deal in Ferengi history. So, uh Quark's first contact is with a race known as the Dosey. I don't know if I'm saying that right because I don't remember this. Um, but his his first encounter with them goes kind of piss poor. Uh but we learn about a species called the Karema. Um who they are isn't that important. Uh, what's more important is what they're a part of. Uh according to this Dosey named Zyre, the Karema are a very important power in something called the Dominion. When Quark asks what this is, Zyre says, well, let's just say if you want to do business in the Gamma Quadrant, you have to do business with the Dominion. The lack of information on whatever this Dominion is frustrates Quark, but little does he know that he is the first individual from the Alpha Quadrant to learn the name of the most powerful and brutal force in the Gamma Quadrant. As time goes on, Cisco and the others begin to hear more stories about this Dominion. They learn about how effortlessly they came in and conquer homeworlds and subjugate their inhabitants, and how the face to the name seems to not just be one single solitary force. It's not just one person or one thing, it's many. Uh Sisko would make first contact with the Dominion near the end of 2370 when he would be detained alongside Quark and a woman by the name of Eris. Uh Ares was a Vorta, a species that Sisko and Quark had never seen before. Uh their captors, their captors were large reptilian soldiers that were known to Eris as the Gemhadar. When asked why they were held captive, a Gemhadar soldier would say that it's because the founders don't want them to be released. Sisko would ask, who are the founders? What are the founders? And he would say that it's none of your concern. This does that doesn't concern you. All he would say it does concern him. I'm just saying. I mean, it should, but at this point they're like, Sisko, this guy, this human? No, you don't. You don't get to know that. It does concern him, certainly. However, at this point, the Gem Hadar just like, no, we're not telling you anything. We're not telling you squat. You, sir, are not worth the time or effort. All he would say is that the founders exist and that the Dominion was their creation. He would lament how it was disappointing that the first species from the other side of the wormhole he met were humans and Ferengi. They wanted to meet Klingons or Cardassians who had such appealing violence and weaponry. Sisko would ask him how he knew so much, and he would say that they they just they learn more and more every day, and that their only plan was to just keep on learning. The Gem Hadar wanted to use Commander Sisko as sort of an example of what happens to anyone who interferes uh with the Dominion. Uh, coming through the anomaly is interference enough, and unless you wish to continue to offend the Dominion, the Gem Hadar want you to stay on your side of the galaxy. And here, here guys, here's a list of all the vessels we've destroyed for violating our territory. And after capturing the three, the Gem Hadar would immediately stomp out and destroy all the Federation colonies in the Gamma Quadrant, as well as numerous ships. And remember how New Bajor was housing a hundred thousand people? Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

I was just about to. I couldn't remember just how big uh that planet was, but yeah, 100,000.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

I'm assuming completely eradicated all the people on New Bajor.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah, that's I I was like, I thought that was what you were gonna say, but I was almost hoping for uh they at least captured some of them, but no. We've we've gone full, gone full, kill everybody. Yeah, and when you look at a gem hadar, you're like, oh, yep, not fucking with that.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Nope, absolutely not. But we will and we will talk about them more a little later. Um, but the three would be rescued and returned to the Alpha Quadrant. Upon arriving, Quark and Sisko would attempt to move Aeris into a more secure area because they'd kind of determine, like, oh, she's a double agent. This Aeris lady is a double agent. And she would kind of see the writing on the wall, she would see what they were doing, and she would compliment them for figuring it out. Sisko would accuse her of being a founder, and she would say, Oh, you think a founder would waste their time with you? You have no idea what's begun here, before tapping her wrist, and poof, she disappears. So, next uh section is titled Found Family, and we have another quote for you. And this one isn't it's not great, but it's definitely not as bad as the ones you've done. And it's nice and short.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Okay, there we go. Well, uh sort of technically. Um Ferengi rule of acquisition number 34. War is good for business.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Well, we're we're we're kind of paralleling the real world. I'm sure there's there's you know don't. Uh absolutely paralleling the real world. Yeah, unfortunate there. But anyway, a very significant individual going forward for the sake of the story of the Dominion War is a man named Odo. Very popular character. Odo is an entity of, at the start of the series, unknown origin. Originally, he was believed to be nothing more than just some really weird space jelly. Yes, space jelly. But after extensive and very aggressive experiments from his founder, it's determined that he's not just space jelly. He's a sentient being, and he's actually able to sort of take on the form of a humanoid individual. His transformation isn't quite perfect. Like he's mostly humanoid, but he's missing a few important little details. Odo was given the name Odo Ital. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

You just you've reminded me of something where I I was I can't remember who it was I was talking to, but Odo came up as being like quite quite a cool, quite a cool looking character because you got that sort of almost clay-like formed features. And when I when I was talking to this friend, I said Odo is an example of that kind of like that kind of design of a character. And she went, oh, is that is that that dude who sleeps in a bucket? And I was like, Yeah, of all the ways to remember that person, that is insane.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Until you said that I had genuinely forgotten that he sleeps in the bucket.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

That was her only frame of reference for it as well. Like she knew who he was, but for some reason, the only thing she could think that was notable outside of the design of the character was he sleeps in a bucket. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, because he has to return to his his fluid state. He can't stay human all the time. Oh man, I uh all the stuff Odo does, and to remember him as that thing that sleeps in the bucket is dirty business. That's crazy. Anyway, Odo was given the name Odo Ital by the occupying Cardassians, which roughly translates to unknown sample. And after learning and adapting to his new surroundings, uh Odo's genetic neutrality granted him the position of Chief of Security on Terek Noor, uh, before retaining that same title after the station was repurposed into Deep Space Nine. And after the incidents, that incidents that caused the Dominion to be known by the Federation, uh, explorations were sent into the wormhole covertly to locate these founders of the Dominion. The Federation believed that if they were to be located, hey, we can negotiate and maybe, you know, figure something out, figure out a way that we can all coexist. The Vorte they encountered would prove to be unhelpful, as many of them would believe that the founders were just not actually a tangible thing, and they were more or less just sort of this Dominion myth. Also, that is a Vorte. They're mostly humanoid, but they have those very distinctive uh ears uh on the side of their head. Kind of got like sort of gill feel to them. Yeah. Like fish gill to it. Yeah, yeah. Um, regardless, with the newly obtained USS Defiant, which by the by, fun fact about the Defiant, that is the first uh Federation ship that was designed specifically for combat. I think the blueprint was made so that they could fight the Borg, but then the Borg became kind of a lesser threat, and then it just got shelved, and then Cisco is like, brother, we need a warship because this is getting out of hand. It also borrows a cloak from the uh Romulans that they have to get special permission to use. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Um with this newly obtained USS Defiant, the command crew of Deep Space Nine would seek them out anyway. Yeah, that's the Defiant right there. If if you've seen First Contact, that is indeed the ship that Wharf rams into the board. It is a good day to die.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah, maybe it is a good day to die. But it's also great design. Great design of a ship.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Oh, yeah. It's so different than a lot of like what you would expect from Federation ships back then. Because it's just sort of this very sleek, yeah, I love it. Anyway, uh, after a surprise encounter with the Gem Haddard that resulted in the majority of the crew being captured, Odo and Major Kira is it Kira Neris, Neris? Anyway, uh, and Major Kira of the Bajorans would stumble upon a strange planet in the Gamma Quadrant that would actually turn out to be the homeworld of Odo. They would be greeted by other changeling entities who would take on a form similar to Odo's attempted humanoid form in an attempt to comfort him, sort of welcome him home. We're like you, we understand. Um, a female changeling, who is for the duration of the series referred to literally as the female changeling, would tell Odo the history of his people, their struggles, their triumphs, their attempts at perfection. She would show him how to master the art of changing so that he could more accurately take the form of creatures like a hawk. And also the revelation of his true heritage obviously brings Odo some comfort, right? He finally knows where he comes from. He finally knows who his people are. He finally has a place that's like, oh shit, this is home. What would not bring him any comfort was the revelation that the missing members of the fi of the Defiant were being held prisoner on this changeling world, and they were being subjected to high-intensity mental experimentation for unknown reasons at the behest of the Vorta. When Kira would accuse the female changeling of being part of the Dominion, she would correct Kira. The changelings were not a part of the Dominion, they were the Dominion. Nice. Nice. Ugh. Yeah, buddy. Now, the history of the Dominion is highly debatable due to a bunch of factors that we'll go over in just a few moments, so take it with a grain of salt. What we know of their history is told to us by the female changeling and the Vorta, particularly a Vorta by the name of Wei Yoon. According to two different clones of Weiyun, the Dominion is somewhere between 2,000 and 10,000 years old and was founded by the Changelings. In the distant past, the changelings apparently freely drifted and roamed the stars, much like Odo did. They were curious explorers, allegedly, and their ability to shape shift was, as you can imagine, seen as a bit of an oddity for some species, and to other species, they found it absolutely terrifying. According to her, the changelings were hunted and killed by non-shifting entities, which side note, uh, the changelings refer to all non-changelings simply as solids. Rightfully so, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

I mean, not not inaccurate, but also feels a little bit um what's the culturally insensitive? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, it it definitely does kind of feel that way. But also they they they were hunted down and they were segregated but they were um you know hunted down and killed simply because oh, you have powers that I don't and I don't like I'm scared of something I don't understand. So I kind of understand we're like, oh yeah, don't trust the solids or something. Yeah, it may be a bit of leeway for them on that one. Violence begetting violence and prejudice begetting more prejudice, right? Um, these species were terrified of their changing abilities and wished to remove them. But according to the legend, the changelings had an ancient savior. On one planet, a very timid, ape-like species went out of their way to protect a changeling who was being hunted, and the changelings vowed to repay them one day in their own form of kind. The changelings would settle on the world that Odo landed on and would all unite as one in their morphic form. So all of these sort of changelings would go into their gel form and sort of almost form this ocean of changeling matter called the Great Link. And the Great Link, this, like I said, this ocean of changeling matter was the sum of all changelings physically and served as sort of a reinforcement of their core beliefs. It was up to them, it was up to the changelings to link the chaotic universe together and bring order to it. Also, that is what the sort of great link looks like when when Odo and Kira land on that planet. It's all of that's all changeling matter. That's all the changelings.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Is that so literally every single surviving changeling is just in that big in that big lake, kind of as one is almost like like a what's what's the word? Like a like a gestalt entity where all the minds are present but like connected? Yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

I don't think it's all of them, which ha ha ha nice segue. They would send out a hundred infants into the void, one of which was Odo, and they were genetically coded to return to the Great Link by the 27th century to provide these sort of Great Link changelings with all the knowledge they would need to sort of fan out and do what they needed to do. And while these while these infants gathered info, the changelings would establish their foothold in the Gamma Quadrant and would become the true founders of the Dominion. Uh the Changelings also had an unshakable tenet that they were not, they were never, ever to kill one another. Changeling should never kill Changeling. Meaning that even if Odo was on the opposite side of the conflict, he wasn't on their side of the Dominion war, because he's a changeling, no harm can come to Odo, and Odo would always be welcome to return to the Great Link if he so desired. This fact, this pillar, would 100% come back to haunt them.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

I was just gonna say, presumably, uh Odo being essentially unkillable to the other side has got to cause them problems over time. That's gotta become one of those things that's like, are you sure we can't just kill one changely? Because uh this dude, this dude is turning out to be a real pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

You know, funnily enough, and we'll uh we will talk about it, it doesn't haunt them in exactly the way you'd think it would. Anyway, next the next section is entitled, Those That Save Those That Save Them Become Those That Praise Them. And in order to assert full control, the changelings, they needed entities that could work perfectly for them. And the only way to assure that something could work for you is to make it yourself. So, the ape-like creatures that we talked about earlier, the ones that allegedly saved the changeling years ago, and oh, we'll we will repay you in kind, that entity, that species, would be horrifically modified and forcibly uplifted into sentience. And that species that was modified and uplifted, um, that is actually the Vorta. Uh the Vorta were bred to worship the founders as gods on a genetic level, and to believe that all of their actions were merely to serve the founders and nothing more. That sucks.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

That absolutely got some uh some all tomorrow's uh grossness to it, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah, you think you're doing a good deed by helping out the uh species that's getting uh prejudicedly hunted against. And yeah. Uh so the Vorta's once feral brains had turned into cool and calculating minds that allowed them to serve as near. Perfect diplomats and manipulators, to the point where many species believe that truly the Vorta are the founders and leaders of the Dominion. I believe in Deep Space Nine, they believed that for a long time. And I remember as if you're being like, oh yeah, the Vorta are obviously the ones running this show, and that's just gonna be how it is. In actuality, the mere presence of a founder causes even the strongest of Vorta to immediately assume this stance of subservience. It's this genetic coding that presents the Vorta from potentially revolting against their masters. The Vorta also had something embedded in them that not only helped keep them in line, but it gives them a sort of quick um escape if their duties or if negotiations went south. Implanted at the bottom of their brainstem is a termination implant. And if pressure is applied to this termination implant in a specific manner, it will kill the vorta. And naturally, they are expected to use this as a means to prevent any information that a Vorta may hold from getting into enemy hands. So sort of like your uh uh your cyanide tooth in fiction where you click it and oop, there you go. Yeah, it's a horrible failsafe. Yeah, but unfortunately, so the founders promised the Vorta that the activation of this implant was a quick and just painless way to die. In reality, this is very far from the case. The implant actually caused the Vorta's to suffer immensely and die slowly. And though the founders' appearance to the Vorta is dominating, their presence is actually something of a rarity. It should be noted that the founders themselves have almost completely removed themselves from the equation in a visual sense, making them quite literally like a myth in their own dominion.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

So they set this whole thing off because they wanted to alter the universe fundamentally, and then having set it in motion, have just kind of left them to it to just do the work and kept themselves relatively clean of it in a way.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

More or less. Also, nice little nice little quote to end that section for you.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Has it ever occurred to you that you believe the founders are gods because that's what they want you to believe? That they built it into your genetic code? Of course they did. That's what gods do. After all, why be a god if there's no one to worship you? Christ. Odo speaking with Wei Yun. That's oh God, the rationalization of the horrible thing they've done is really chilling.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

I don't like it. Yeah, and and and Wei Yoon, of course he would think that. He's he has literally been genetically modified and altered mentally to 100% believe that and be 100% okay with that. No problem at all.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

This is gross. It's like, yeah, well, obviously I know they did that. We all know. Why wouldn't you? It's like hello.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

If you were a god, you'd do it too, wouldn't you? Obviously. Think I'm mad about that. That's what I was built for. Yeah. The second tool the founders would need is something more violent. And the Gem Hadar would serve this purpose. What they used to be is completely unknown. All that's known is that they were also violently uplifted and genetically scrambled to suit the needs of the founders. The Gem Hadar are brutal warriors with skin that makes them impervious to most standard phaser fire. They are brutal militants with exceptionally sharp tactical minds that were crafted specifically to be as devastating as possible. Now, of course, something this wildly violent and effective would pose a risk of an internal rebellion under normal circumstances. But these are the founders. This is a stone that they did not leave unturned when they were manipulating and crafting and scrambling up the gem hadard. In order to force them into total subservience, they removed specific genetic markers and necessary enzymes from their biology and made it so that the only way for them to get those nutrients is through a narcotic called Ketracell White. Ketracell white is the only thing that contains these life-assuring nutrients, and the stocks of Ketracell White are completely controlled by the Vorta and distributed to a soldier by the Vorta directly. Without Ketracell White, the circulatory system of a gem hadar would fail, and the resulting madness it would experience would cause it to take its own life. It's like fresh levels of awful every time. God duh. Yeah, the Gem Hadar are and yeah, it yeah, it doesn't it doesn't get any better for them. Uh the Gem Hadar ultimately, they sort of have no idea that they are addicted to this stuff, and they serve their masters blindly and are too genetically coded to view the founders as gods. Now, being in an untouched sector of space and likely having an empire for longer than the Vulcans have had the ability to travel the stars, it shouldn't be a surprise that the Dominion are exceptionally technologically advanced and have a foothold in the Gamma Quadrant that is borderline unshakable because their key philosophy is simple. What you control can't hurt you. The Dominion don't care about glory or honor like the Klingons, nor do they care about exploration and scientific innovation like the Federation. They have, in their minds, achieved the pinnacle of all those things already and will continue to do so as realistically, the changeling themselves are basically immortal. Because of their long lives and longstanding, their strategies and tactics are not built off the immediate issues. They're focused on the extreme long term. Because they're immortal, they need to look at things on the extreme timeline. The universe is chaotic and it needs to be dominated. That's the only way to bring order and peace. Those things that cannot be dominated must be utterly destroyed in the process. We know of some of the species that work with the Dominion, but it's also not clear if this is out of diplomacy or if it's forced subservience with the gilded promise of being able to survive. But their ability to utterly decimate worlds is complemented by their incredible strategic minds that allow them to coerce other species into aiding them, to the point where those species are just like, oh, of course, this was this was my decision. I I decided this. Of course it was my decision. We also have no idea how many other species have been uplifted, used to their full potential, and then just eradicated by the changelings in their quest for total domination. Take a species, use it. Oh, I don't need this anymore. Boom. Eradicated. No idea how many species have been just genocided because the changelings have used them up.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

It feels like it's gotta be a lot. It's not gonna be one, is it? It feels like they've got a very good system in place that also completely overrides any sort of consideration that you could possibly have for the species that you're doing it to. And given they kill all of them solids anyway, I'm assuming there's not much guilt floating around in there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:43

And I mean, when you see what they've done in making the Vorta and the Gem Hadar, and given that they are basically immortal up until this point, there's a good chance that they have eradicated hundreds, if not hundreds and if not thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of entire species. It's crazy to think about. So when it comes to the conflict that would evolve into the Dominion War, the Federation believed that if they could put a face to the name, maybe that would help out, right? If you could actually give the Dominion uh a proper face, you could rally people against them. Slight problem though, the Dominion is run by entities who have genetically altered others into believing that they're gods. Why would gods care about something as desperate as a tiny Federation? Worst of all, though they had a face to the name, they very much overlooked the terrible fact that that face was only really an idea. In reality, the Dominion, as we talked about, they can take on any face they wanted, including a face so like the Federation's own that it was less like looking at an enemy, and it was really more like looking into a mirror. The Dominion has no desire to destroy the factions of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant outright. They would rather them do it to themselves. And the following would happen in a relatively quick succession, sometimes at the same time as other events. And wouldn't you know it? There's this lovely section coming up called A War Best Served Cold. And I've got another phenomenal quote for you, Kiriath.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

I'm not talking about war. What I'm proposing is wiping out every founder on that planet, obliterating the Great Link. Come now, Mr. Worf. You're a Klingon. Don't tell me you'd object to a little genocide in the name of self-defense. I'm a warrior, not a murderer. What you are is a great disappointment. Elin Garak speaking with Lieutenant Commander Worf. Wow. Wow, dissing a guy for not backing the immediate obliteration of a species.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Garrick's great. Um, we will talk about him a little bit, and Possum shares my thoughts, but Garrick is quite possibly the best character in all of Deep Space Nine, maybe all of Star Trek in general. Anyway, unbeknownst to the powers beyond the Gamma Quadrant, the founders would send changelings out in calculated efforts to force a full destabilization of the Alpha Quadrant piece by piece. One of their first targets were the intelligence agencies of the Cardassians, which go by the name of the Obsidian Order, and the Romulans, which is the Tal Shiar. It came to the founders' attention that they were working on a covert means to unify in order to potentially wipe out the founders. Just as a side note, the idea of the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar working together, if you've watched Deep Space Nine or any Star Trek, that's fucking crazy, brother. Anyway, uh the changelings would infiltrate and instigate them, forcing them to attempt an attack immediately without really thinking it through. The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order would attempt to attack the Omerian Nebula, but unfortunately they would fall into a very well-fortified trap, resulting in this in the destruction of not only all of the Cardassian and Romulan ships, but the crippling of the Talchiar and the extinction, the extinction of the Obsidian Order. Sheer numbers-wise, the 15 Cardassian vessels destroyed had an average crew count of 500 per ship, and that is 15 Cardassian vessels. What the hell? While the five Romulan ships had a crew capacity of 1,500 per ship.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

I'm impressed that you actually made that worse so quickly. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yeah, yeah, it's it's yeah, there they are. Not that the Talshiar and Obsidian Order were great people, um, but boy, that's a lot of dead. That's a lot of dead Cardassians and Romulans. Um and the Obsidian Order's collapse would cause a huge power vacuum to form on Cardassia Prime, obviously the Cardassian homeworld, resulting in a coup and the installation of Golducat as a leader. General Martak of the Klingon Empire would say that this coup was instigated internally by the Dominion and would coerce Chancellor Gauran to preemptively attack the Cardassian Union, a violent maneuver that would force the Federation Klingon Alliance to collapse. Benjamin Sisko would plead with Gowron that this is what the founders wanted. His diplomacy would be ignored. The Klingon-Cardassian War would officially begin while they're all trying to deal with the Dominion, which is fucking crazy to me, and one-third of the entire Klingon defense fleet would be committed to this war of attrition with heavy casualties. It was what this General Martak wanted. But unbeknownst to the rest of the Klingons, this General Martak was not the real General Martak. The Federation was not exempt from the founders' acts of infiltration. An attempted high-level meeting between the Romulans and the Federation in Antwerp would be sabotaged by a changeling. And the subsequent bombing of the peace talks resulted in the death of 27 diplomats and the destabilizing of talks between the Romulans. The fact that the changelings were able to get so close to taking out the Federation president caused immediate destabilization among Starfleet personnel. Admiral Leighton would attempt a military coup that, while ultimately thwarted, showed that the Federation, they were really, they were not ready for what the Dominion could do. They were not ready for just how easy it was for a changeling to infiltrate damn near their highest chain of command. This would inflame.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Oh, yeah, go ahead. It feels like at this point in the Federation has essentially been plunged in plunged like plunged into a type of war that they were just fundamentally not capable of A, comprehending or B, defending against. Oh, yeah. Like just the whole the whole basis of it is so far beyond their field of experience that it's just a case of uh we don't know what the hell is going on, but it's all bad.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Oh yeah. Like and it's it's not even like, oh yeah, well, they naturally, if you had changeling abilities, you would infiltrate the highest level of the Federation and try to take out their president. Not only did they do that, they were also like, oh yeah, this Federation Klingon Alliance thing is kind of a problem. Let's get a changeling in there as Martok force the Klingons into a war of attrition with the Cardassians. That cripples the alliance further. And if we can take out their highest levels of uh command, even if we take out a bunch of them, that's still they're hitting them on so many covert fronts that like the Federation just cannot keep up. And this would inflame the groups that wish to secede from the Federation, like the Maquis, into viewing their actions as more than justified. Uh, eventually, the truth about the Martha changeling would be revealed, but the forces of the Klingons were already so fully committed to the war, and the nearly two-year run of it of this Cardassian-Klingon war, you can't retreat from that. You are already so deep into the into it that even if the basis of it was started by a changeling, it's too late to get out of it now. You can't. But the Cardassians were becoming fatigued. Driven by the humiliation of such a drawn-out conflict, Ducat would work on what he believed would be the best way out of the conflict for the Cardassians. He would conduct negotiations directly with the Dominion. The enemy of my enemy is our next section, the Federation. Is it left? Yeah, well, the Federation would be so busy putting out fires left and right that they were left basically fully unprepared for the Borg surprise assault on Earth in a battle known as the Battle of Sector 001. More or less the events of first contact. Though Captain Jean-Luc Picard was able to stop the assault, the Borg's damage to the Federation fleet would have long-standing repercussions for the rest of the Dominion War. The Federation would identify a large fleet of Dominion ships near the wormhole and would decide that ultimately, the wormhole just wasn't worth it anymore, man. Let's just get rid of it. If we get rid of it, the Dominion can't come through the damn hole anymore, and we can just nip this damn thing in the bud. So they would attempt to destroy it with the Graviton Beam. Unbeknownst to the Federation, however, the Changelings had long prepared for this, and that Graviton beam was actually reverse-engineered. Instead of destroying the wormhole, the beam ended up solidifying the wormhole. The Federation would watch from Deep Space Nine as a gigantic contingency of Dominion ships would emerge from the wormhole. But instead of claiming the station or destroying it, they just moved right on past them and headed directly for Cardassia. And would you look at that? Another quote for you, Kyriath. Here you go, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

Cardassia will be made whole. All that we have lost will be ours again, and anyone who stands in our way will be destroyed. This I avow with my life's blood for my son, for all our sons. That is uh Golducat announcing the union between the Cardassians and the Dominion. Oh, don't you love it when it just gets way worse?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Oh man. Yeah, and it doesn't get any better. In three days, in three days, the forces of the Dominion would end the Klingon-Cardassian war, and any ship that did not retreat was completely obliterated. Cisco would convince Galron to reinstate the alliance between the Klingons and the Federation, and the Dominion would also begin to reinforce. They entrenched themselves in the quadrant, signing non-aggression pacts with various races, including the Bajorans and the Romulan Star Empire. Before long, they were able to fortify around the borders of the Federation space and were successful in isolating them. The Federation would decide that the only thing that could be done was to occupy the wormhole with force to prevent further incursion from the Dominion. They were losing the peace, and the only thing that could help them was war. So they would line the wormhole with self-replicating mines that were cloaked, impossible to see, and for each one that blows up, another one just boom, reappears in its wake. If the replication was complete, traveling through the wormhole would actually be impossible for anyone on the other side of it. The Dominion would send a Weiyun clone, Weiyun 5, to attempt to negotiate one last time. Also, Shy posted a picture of those self-replicating minds. It's so many mines.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

I was just gonna say that is ridiculous. I'm sorry, you've got infinitely expanding explosive devices forever. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Yeah, it's that it's it's just wild. Like even the Dominions, like, yeah, what we what the fuck are we supposed to do with that? What do you what the hell, man? Stop stop cheating. This isn't fair. Yeah. So, Weiyun would tell Cisco that he knew about the minefield and said that there were only two options: either the Federation removes the mines, or the Dominion will remove them themselves. Sisko would say that the Dominion would not be allowed in the system, and Wei Yoon would question his authority to make such a decision. He would say that maybe they could reach an agreement. He would say that Cisco misunderstood the Dominion and that the movement of troops and other things were it's just to aid the Cardassians and nothing more after their long war of attrition with the Klingons. And since they're a part of the Dominion, their security and stability was now the Dominion's main concern. He would talk about the children starving on Cardassia Prime and how they wished to help them return to normalcy, and he agreed to talk to the founders and see if they could limit convoys to just cargo ships. Cisco said he would speak to Starfleet Command, and Wei Yun promised he would not be disappointed. This, after all, could be the first step to real lasting peace. Either side, of course, was not truly interested in honoring any of this. And you would think that the second battle of Deep Space Nine would begin with a BANG. But it wouldn't. The minefield would remain at the entrance of the wormhole, but it would not be activated since the mines hadn't completed replicating. The Dominion ships would be diverted, and the Federation was successful in destroying a singular Dominion shipyard. But at a great cost. The Federation would lose control of Deep Space Nine. Sisko and his crew would attempt to sabotage the station as best as possible, while he would leave a personal message behind stating that he would be back. The claiming of the station and the securing of the wormhole would result in the official start of the Dominion War, an active combat in the Alpha Quadrant against the Federation as a whole. That is that is a disappointing result for all of that work.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:14

That fully sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:17

They never quite actually got all of the mines activated, and they did end up losing Deep Space Nine, but they did destroy a Dominion shipyard. So at least sort of a blow was struck. I don't know if you really consider it worth it, but they things and roundabouts. Yeah, yeah. So forced to retreat on numerous fronts, the Dominion would crush resistance anywhere it may be. In an attempt to support the Tyra system, the Federation would send 112 ships. Of those ships, ninety-eight would be eradicated, resulting in the death of somewhere around 40,000 more people.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

The atrocious already. And this is the start. It's the start of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

Yeah, this is this is the official start of the Dominion War, yeah. The Federation would, however, have little victories here and there, but most were pyrrhic and symbolic in nature. The Dominion steamrolled across Federation territory and managed to encroach onto the Vulcan border. Morale across the quadrant would naturally sink catastrophically. And even the proud Klingons would believe that this was a fruitless war that could only end in their destruction. But the brunt of the Dominion still wasn't there. Though the minefield didn't detonate, it was still making transportation from the Gamma Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant impossible for the Dominion. The only way that the Klingons and Federation could feasibly hold the line would be if they managed to retake Deep Space Nine. But both sides knew that any effort to do so would cause their respective sort of core home worlds to be vulnerable, which was a risky gambit considering both sides are literally on the verge of total collapse. Cisco believed that if they were able to reclaim it, they could successfully trigger the minefield, and that would be fucking huge. Currently, over 2800 Dominion ships were in the wormhole, actively attempting to traverse into the Alpha Quadrant while others were working on the removal of the self-replicating mines to allow for easier transport. Time was of the essence though, as Cisco received word that the Dominion was making quite a bit of headway on the mine removal. And those Klingons, they just weren't acting fast enough. Cisco would lead a total of 627 Federation ships to reclaim the station in an effort called Operation Return. And Dukat would move to intercept them. As the fleet engaged, Cisco would take the Defiant personally and attempt to empty enter the wormhole and manually activate the mines. Dukat would pull 1,254 Cardassian and Dominion ships from the front lines and move them into position to stop the Federation fleet. That's a ridiculous number.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

I'm just saying that's mental. Also, I'm sorry, I've just I've just seen that Patreon. Is that full galaxy class just hanging out?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

What the hell? I mean, this is the Dominion War. This is huge. If they can if they can take Deep Space Nine back and activate those mines, that's a huge turning point. So the Federation is putting a lot into that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

I feel like given some of the stuff that we've seen the Galaxy class do, that's like that's basically having an extra hundred ships right there, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

Yeah. Um and uh the only actual warship there is the Defiant. All the other ones are actually exploration ships, really, more or less. But they're obviously, you know, capable of firing off quite the payload of torpedoes and phasers and all that. But they're outnumbered roughly two to one when and and the engagement would begin. And as you can imagine, as any conflict in the Dominion War, this was horrific. However, Dukat knew that the Federation wouldn't risk something like this if there wasn't another motive behind it, and would attempt to focus efforts against, like, I think Cisco specifically. As the Defiant arrived near the wormhole, the last of the mines was actually destroyed. No options were left. The mines are all gone. The only thing preventing total dominion domination had been eradicated. Out of anger and defiance, Sisko would lead a final charge directly into the wormhole. And when he's in the wormhole, the prophets, the prophets that we talked about, the sort of crazy alien god-like species inside the wormhole would intercept him and say that their emissary was not to sacrifice himself on this day. Sisko would state that the Dominion fleet was a threat to those that viewed the prophets as gods, and he begged the entities to intervene. They agreed, but stated that a penance would be exacted from him at some point in the future. As this occurred, the Klingons had entered the fray, resulting in at least some reinforcements on the Federation's end, but the fleet of div but the fleet of the Dominion ships in the wormhole were turning their guns on them. Before a catastrophe could fully take place, however, every single Dominion ship in the wormhole would vanish. The Dominion leaders would confirm that the ships had indeed entered the wormhole, but they never exited. All 2800 ships in the Dominion's Armada were effectively annihilated.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:38

Okay. So the the the the the question about are we talking is there a bit of like Q like power going on right at the start? Uh yes. Yes. If you if you enter the wormhole, they can and will fuck you up, it turns out. They can answer that question.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

They can. The emissary, their emissary had to basically beg them and be like, yes, you can have a favor or a penance later, but listen, you gotta help me now. I'm your goddamn emissary. It took a lot to get the prophets to actually get involved, but all 20 yeah, when they did, they took out nearly 3,000 Dominion ships.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:23

That is crazy. That is insane. Oh, also, uh just because I know there'll be at least one comment, because I haven't actually seen the scene of the of the Federation fleet attacking. Uh, I don't know how many galaxy class were actually in the scene itself. The first time I looked at the picture, I saw four. There is a cheeky fifth one hanging around, uh, just but just behind the Defiant, it turns out. There may be more in total, but you know, I saw four initially. It turns out there was a a hidden galaxy class, which is my favorite kind. But yeah, that's it's so easy to hide them after all these massive ships, right? I I would imagine the the like the the reaction of the Dominion to we've just lost 2,800 ships in the wormhole to apparently nothing. I'm guessing that wasn't a fun interaction for whoever delivered that news.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:15

No, probably not. Um the Oh, also Shai said nine plus Galaxy class starships participated, according to the wiki. Nine of them. Goddamn. And for anyone that for some reason doesn't know what a Galaxy class is, that's nine enterprises. That's nine NCC 1701Ds. Nuts.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

I think they are pretty widely recognized for being really quite powerful for what they're supposed to be, especially. Like it's it's sort of exploration and and uh like like uh ambassadorial kind of sort of stuff going on. Like science, not necessarily wiping people out, but it could definitely just wipe people out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Isn't it considered the flagship of the enterprise, the galaxy class? I think the galaxy was. I think are all are all enterprises the flagship, or is it just the galaxy that was the flagship?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

I thought it was the galaxy class that was considered the flagship, largest and most powerful Federation starship classes of its time. And you've got nine of them. I believe we love the galaxy class, which is why I'm so excited. Yeah. So how important was this conflict? Nine galaxy class starships.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

That's that's how it's measured. The more the the more um galaxy classes you sent in, the more important the mission was.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:41

Yep, yep. As you can imagine, however, after losing basically 3,000 ships, the Dominion would order a tactical retreat of the station back to Cardassian space, allowing for the Federation to successfully reclaim Deep Space Nine. And during the conflict, Dukat would learn from his daughter that she actively aided resistance fighters during the conflict. This would cause the Cardassian Demar to execute Gul Dukat's daughter immediately, resulting in Dukat suffering a total mental breakdown and causing the Cardassians to buckle slightly. The next section is aptly called the Armor Cracks.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

After that loss, I'm not sure I'd be horrified if it hadn't, to be honest. Imagine losing 3,000 ships and being like, eh, whatever. I was gonna say if the next station was unfortunately they had 3,000 more ships.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:53

Damar, who would succeed Dukat leadership-wise after Dukat was captured, and Weiyun would offer to negotiate a ceasefire. And originally, this seemed like it was a direct result of how strong the Federation was at this point. But that was not the case. A think tank would determine that the reason they were trying to negotiate was due to a very obvious flaw in how the Dominion operates. They were cut off from the Gamma Quadrant, meaning that the Gem Hadar were also cut off from their resupplies of Ketracell White. The Dominion were dealing with a ticking time bomb and they were desperate. But no deal would come, and the Dominion would indeed become real desperate. They would negotiate agreements with other antagonistic forces in the galaxy, like the Orions, before successfully drawing up a treaty with the species known as the Sona, who were able to manufacture a substitute for Ketrasell White. The Dominion, out of nowhere, would launch a terrifying invasion of the world of BetaZ and would fully conquer and subjugate it in under 10 hours. Oh God, that's like 40k levels of awful. Yeah, in under 10 hours is crazy. The Dominion now held a key world in the Federation and had direct access to all the homeworlds of the Federation's founding members: the Vulcans, the Andorians, the Tellarites, and of course the humans. Attempts to reclaim BetaZ were thwarted left and right due to the lack of Federation supplies, and the death tolls just continue to rise. When it comes to reports on the numbers, the Federation's weekly casualty report was generally, as we've said, really, really high. The destruction of entire ships and whole crews would cause the numbers to spike to tens of thousands, where some weeks there would just be a mere 2,000. Just a mere paltry 2K people dead. Oh, is that it? Yeah. But the most important factor here was what the numbers were conveying. According to Cisco, the list of weekly death tolls that we talked about sort of near the beginning of the episode were specifically Starfleet personnel. It was not accounting for the actual civilian cost of what was occurring. Because the Dominion, it's not like they were just moving from combat zone to combat zone. They were establishing a presence, since outside of Cardassia, they legitimately didn't have one in the Alpha Quadrant. Fortifications for defenses, supplies, and stripping of resources, forced movement and recruitment of people if they were of use and eradication of those who were not, those weren't in the Federation's list of people that died that week or in the weekly report. So yeah, the Starfleet personnel number, is it high? Absolutely. It's skyrocketingly, staggeringly, brain-numbingly high. But the number of innocents that were taken during this conflict, too, is realistically unknowable, and honestly, in my opinion, is probably significantly higher than those weekly reports that Cisco's posting.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:28

Yeah, there's like a hidden ratio that isn't necessarily spelled out, but is definitely way worse civilian versus like Federation casualty-wise.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

If the tides were to turn, the Federation would need help from a neutral party. One that would not be easy to convince. And uh the next section is called In the Pale Moonlight, which uh, oh man, is probably most people's favorite, favorite episode of Deep Space Night. So let's let's talk about what happens. The Romulans had long been adversaries to the Federation, and their non-aggression pact with the Dominion was pretty ironclad, uh, even if they allowed the occasional Dominion ship to pass through their borders without question. Cisco would believe that forcing a proxy war between the Romulans and the Dominion would be the only significant way to shift the tide of war. And the Federation would agree. Cisco would seek out the help of a former Cardassian Obsidian Order member and, as Possum says, greatest character of the series, Elam Garrick, to assist with coercing the Romulans into war. Though he was just a simple tailor on the surface, Garrick was a master at the art of sabotage, and Sisko deep down knew what kind of help he was asking for, even if he didn't want to outright admit it. On the surface, the plan was simple. The plan was to create a forged holotape that showed that the Dominion was planning an invasion of Romulus, present it to the Romulan senator by the name of Vreenak, this senator who was a Dominion apologist and supporter. So if they could convince Vreenak, if they could convince him, then one of the biggest holdouts in the Romulan Senate would be handled. And when it came time, the Romulan Senate would probably vote to enter a war with the Dominion, because they have proof that the Dominion are stabbing them in the back. However, the forgery, the holotape, was not perfect. And Vrinak could see that and would not only state that this is a fake, this is a fraud, and I plan on returning to Romulus and telling them about your fraudulent bullshit behavior. Hopefully, uh, and unfortunately, if he did that, he would instigate a war with the Romulans and the already ailing federation.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

I was gonna say that this sounds like the least federation approach to something. Yeah. Like it was very not in their wheelhouse, and the fact that it backfired immediately has really reinforced that to me to some extent.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

Yeah. But Garrick knew that this would happen. And as the senator got back to his ship and partway back to Romulan space, it would explode. The device used in the detonation would seem Dominion in origin, and the impact of the explosion would actually scramble the holotape enough to make it look like it was actually legitimate and was just damaged in the explosion. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:00

I'm sorry to interrupt again so soon. That rules. Right? That absolutely rules.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Welcome to Garrick. This is what he does. This is his thing. He was a he was a big part of the Obsidian Order. So news would immediately spread across the Federation that the Dominion had attacked the Romulans and were likely going to intervene. But the truth of what truly happened horrified Sisko. Sisko would storm in and attack Garrick for the assassination, and Garrick would admit that when they made that holotape, he was suspicious of how good it was. He was suspicious that it actually wasn't perfect enough. He kind of knew that this wasn't going to work and he had to do something about it. Raging with guilt over the actions that occurred under under his watch, Garrick would spell it out to Sisko p plainly. And uh here's a little here's a cool little quote for you, Kirioth.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:06

Okay. That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things you you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked, and you'll get what you want a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain. Oh Garrick is already my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:42

Ah, that is such that is such a well known quote in Deep Space Nine, man. The the calling that a bargain, and it's like, oh, and it eats Cisco up. It completely eats him. Like he says he can deal with it. Um, it's actually. That is the last quote on the script is sort of the uh the final log of uh Cisco after this happened. So yeah, and because yeah, he he he he it it he does get what he wanted, but he doesn't know about the price. But yeah, within hours, the Romulans would enter the Dominion War and would begin to drive the Dominion back. But the military might was still an issue, and it would be determined that the only way to truly gain an upper hand here would be to launch a full assault into Cardassian space. The Battle of Chintoka was the first successful effort here and is one of the only times in recorded history that the United Federation of Planets, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire would lead a united front. Do you understand how bad shit has to be for these three to unite? That's Yeah, historically they've gotten gray, have they?

unknown 1:29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:09

Like the Klingons and the and and the Federation will work together, but the the two of them with the Romulans too is insanity. Yeah. The Allied front would lose close to 30 ships in the process, but the holding of the system, even in a Pyrrhic sense, gave them an advantage and a much needed psychological boost. Another thing that would, at least at first, cause a psychological boost or boost, would be word spreading that something was happening to the changelings. The changelings were sick. Unnaturally sick. Unbeknownst to the Federation at large, and in the very early stages of the war, Odo was exposed to something nefarious. He would go through bioexams to help the Federation gain information on his physiology so that they could develop sort of changeling detection systems so that if there was some sort of high-level infiltration, maybe Odo could help them form a system. And it's like, oh, this this is this is obviously a changeling. This is this, this is that. They're not going to be able to sneak attack us again. But he would also be infected with a virus manufactured by a rogue covert agency of the Federation known as Section 31. This is literally about to say is it is it's Section 31? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It was indeed Section 31. And this virus would have a long incubation time, but it was engineered to cause the bodies of the changelings to degrade and degenerate. At the start of the conflict, when Odo would return to his home and when he joined in the Great Link in an attempt to cool tensions, he would unknowingly be participating in the genocide of his own people. The founders would attempt to hide the degradation of their bodies by having Vorta work on them and then execute them so that their clothes could continue the work. Of course. Yeah. But it's also just we did kind of gloss over it, but like Oda was unknowingly injected with a virus, and when he went to his people and entered the Great Link in an attempt to just sort of make things right and cool tensions, he he did, as we said, literally genocide his people.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:47

He's he's doomed his his species to just like falling apart, literally, by the looks of her.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:54

Yeah. So not great. That that that sucks. That is that is crazy work by Section 31. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:02

That is, yeah. Even by your sort of your your covert ops sort of standards, that's mental.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

Yeah. Um so the changelings, they would hide themselves from war council meetings, especially with the the newer members in the Alpha Quadrant. Those not privy to this fact that this genuine chemical warfare genocide would work to develop a cure for the changelings. Uh, but the Federation would continue to withhold it. So they tried. Anyone that wasn't privy to the fact that Section 31 made a genocide virus were like, oh, you know, maybe we should try to make a cure, but um you know, I've got another quote for you, Kyriath.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:47

Oh no. It's it's not unnamed Section 31 officer. Good. It's j just just that. Yeah. I don't condone what Section 31 did, but the founders started this war, not us. Giving them the cure would strengthen their hand. We can't do that, not when there are still millions of men and women out there putting their lives on the line every day. Interesting, isn't it? The Federation claims to abore Section 31's tactics, but when they need the dirty work done, they look the other way. It's a tidy little arrangement, wouldn't you say? God, it's Benjamin Sisko speaking with Odo. And also Yes, accurate.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:28

Yeah, kinda sucks that uh, you know, oh yeah, you know, we we got a cure, but um we're not gonna give it to you. War is hell, man. War brings out the worst in people. War makes you make decisions like this where it's like, do we have a cure? Yeah, but we're not gonna give it to our enemies. We're just gonna let the genocide work its thing. It's like, yeah, you know, we didn't tell Section 31 to do that, and we could fix it, but like, mmm, nah. We'd win a lot easier if we didn't. Yeah. The Dominion would experience a number of defeats, and they would put the blame on the Cardassians. The Cardassians, of course, didn't appreciate that. Uh, they also didn't appreciate that behind their backs, the Dominion brokered a military alliance with the Breen, a brutal xenophobic race known for their ominous uniforms and military prowess. The Dominion offered the Breen territory that belonged to the Cardassians in order to cement their alliance. And even though Legate Demar would object, he would be overruled. The final straw would be a Cardassian garrison being viewed as an acceptable loss in the eyes of the Dominion while refusing to send aid. Also, that is a breen. They do have very, very sort of ominous uniforms, and they are not to be trifled with.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:59

I'm assuming everyone else also, when looking at this, sees the helmet that uh Princess Leia wears when she pretends to be a bounty hunter to like which seems first. I would love to know. Oh, it's got to be Star Wars. I mean it's got it. Yeah, it's got yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's what, the third one of the original trilogy. So yeah, that makes is it that one? I can't remember. Either way. Yeah, Return of the Gemini. That's crazy how close the design is.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:24

Yeah. Although from the side profile in that picture, it looks a lot different. It's almost got sort of a mammalian elephant look to it, with maybe not quite an elongated snout.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:35

But yeah, those like a dog's face going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It almost does have like a hound look to it, which is rather fitting because in order to prove their worth, the Brain would do something that not even the Klingons had ever attempted. They were able to somehow pull off a direct assault on Starfleet headquarters in San Francisco. Though the Breen ships would be destroyed, they were able to cause extreme damage to the orbital defenses of Earth and decimated the Golden Gate Bridge and its surrounding locales.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:15

It's always the Golden Gate Bridge, isn't it? That poor thing can't catch a break. Oh, yeah. Doesn't matter what fictional universe you're in. If there's a Golden Gate Bridge, that shit's getting destroyed.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:26

But look at the picture Shy posted. Look at what they did.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:31

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:32

To Starfleet headquarters.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:35

Yeah, you'd really think that that would be a relatively safe place to be, but it usually is.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:42

But the Breen are just crazy. And the death toll is not known. But considering the location and the generalized population size combined with the amount of damage the Breen would have to do to breach the defenses of Earth, it very easily, easily could be in the hundreds of thousands. This is one of the largest direct assaults of Earth since the Zindy Zinge attacked Florida with a plasma beam that virtually cut the state in half and killed over seven million people. Which apparently apparently that was something that happened in uh Enterprise, which I don't think a lot of people have watched, but I don't even like hearing the name, like as as the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:34

Like, oh, someone's been watching Enterprise because it makes me think of the theme tune. And I yes, I had kind of forgotten about it. I couldn't even tell you why I hate it. Me and Parson have had this conversation. I don't even it's not even like, oh, they went for a a soft rock song as a as an intro to Yeah, soft rock religious song, right? Yeah, which is which is a weird choice. I just fundamentally hate the song itself on like a primal level.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:05

Nothing about it fits a Star Trek series, I feel like, too. Like it I I'm it just it just doesn't feel like it works to me, but you know, as someone that has never actually watched The Enterprise. Well, actually, I I vaguely remember one episode where um they found like a Borg that was like frozen in ice, and and and everyone's like, you know, maybe we shouldn't thaw that out. And I guess like there was one government guy's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come on, let's let's break this shit open and see what they got. This could be a technological advancement of the ages. And it's like, are you insane? Look at this thing! Why would you do that? Anyway, put it back in the box, stop. Yeah, freeze it, freeze and more. But this this Breen attack on the Starfleet headquarters was obviously just a catastrophic blow to the morale of the Federation. But it would only get worse from there. The Breen and the Dominion would launch a massive counterattack on the Chintoka system. And out of the 312 Federation and Ally ships in that sector, only one was not destroyed. The only thing that prevented this from going forward was the fact that the Cardassians were starting to rebel and supplies were starting to get throttled. Damar would rally the Cardassians against the Dominion and work to deliver some exceptionally high-powered breen weaponry to the Allied forces. Forced to face a battle within and dealing with a now emboldened Alliance fleet, the Founders were truly on the ropes. The event that would eventually be known as the Battle of Cardassia was the single most bloody day in the entirety of the Dominion War. The forces would fight in the void, but the overwhelming Allied forces proved to be too much. Knowing they could no longer win in space, the female changeling decided that the Alliance would have nothing to save once it made it to Cardassia Prime. By her direct orders, the forces of the Dominion would turn back in order to accomplish one final goal. The complete eradication of the Cardassian species.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:28

Uh goddamn. Yeah. So with the combined efforts of the Gem Hadar and the Breen, the surface of the world would be pulverized relentlessly. The arrival of the Allied forces turned it into a war on two fronts, but the Dominion was far too focused on genocide to brace for it. Which is crazy to me, by the way. Where instead of instead of shoring up for the al for the Allied forces that are coming their way that have been overwhelming them, they were like, no, no, no, no, no, don't worry about that. Let's just wipe these fucking Cardassians off the face of history.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:07

Yeah, that's that's that's mental. Okay, well, if we fight back or do a fighting retreat, then uh we we should be able to keep a good number of ships here. No, no, no, no. Ignore the people that can shoot back at us and kill those civilians. Right now. We've got work to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:24

Yeah, it's crazy. So overwhelmed with so much carnage and not truly protecting themselves, the Dominion headquarters would be breached and the female changeling would be captured. Uh, he would tell her that if she were to surrender, that he would bring the cure to the Great Link. Caught between a potential defeat and the complete eradication of her people, the female changeling would accept and immediately call for the surrender of the Dominion. And I do have a little little quote here for you for our next section that is titled Gone but not forgotten.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:05

Saito was everything I wanted to be. She made some mistakes, but she rallied. She graduated ahead of me and was stationed on the Enterprise, and it got her murdered by Cardassians. She didn't sign up to be a spy. She wanted to explore. Then, before I knew it, the Vorta, the Gem Hadar. Gemhadar, you fought the Dominion? Ah, the shapeshifter sent many warriors to Stovakor. I wish I could have seen it. No, you do not. There was no honor. Just massacres. That's junior grade Lieutenant Beckett Mariner speaking with Klingon warrior Ma Ma Ma But yeah, so not not a not a fun not a fun place to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:49

Uh the rules of surrender involved the complete and total withdrawal of all Dominion forces to the Gamma Quadrant and a restoration of the Alpha Quadrant's original boundaries. But even as things would attempt to return to normal, the damage was permanent to all the races in the Alpha Quadrant. The Cardassians were, to put it lightly, almost completely eradicated. As we said, the damn Dominion was like, screw the war, let's just genocide the Cardassians. In just a few hours, the Battle of Cardassi would result in not would result not only in the death of over seven million Cardassian troops, but also the death of eight hundred million civilians. Oh that's that's awful. Christ. Eight hundred million. You are you are almost in the ba ba ba ba ba billion category of and also again, you the Dominion trying to genocide someone, and they did that in a few hours. So any concept of government or leadership for the Cardassians, it absolutely died that day. Uh and the reconstruction would take generations, especially considering that Cardassians are not being looked on favorably after this war is over because they're seen as the ultimate, the ultimate betrayers. They had sided with the Dominion, and they almost handed them the Alpha Quadrant with a smile. The Klingons would take a decade to recover the losses they experienced during this war. And even though they were friendly for a brief time, the Romulans and the Federations would shift back into a Cold War. In fact, the Dominion War the wa in fact the Dominion War was the catalyst for the actions of Praetor Shinzon in the Romulan Star Empire, which uh I believe is Insurrection is the Shinzone.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:07

Is that that's the one with uh with Tom Hardy as the clot as the clock? Oh no, Nemesis, right, right, it's Nemesis.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:13

Insurrection is the one with the weird pulled back face, I think. But yeah, that's the one where Tom Hardy said, I he thinks it almost cost him his career before it started. It was so a good movie. But originally better about that thing. Yeah. Um, but originally, uh, Shinzon uh is a clone uh designed to replace Picard. Shinzon put onto the front lines of the Dominion War conflict, and the horrors and radicalization he experienced resulted in him instead launching a coup against the Romulan Senate. Martak would attempt to cheers the victory they achieved, but Sisko was not interested in was not interested in it. He would tell them that before he wasted too many tears, that there were Cardassian bodies at their feet, metaphorically. Um, the Bajorans would call this kind of a poetic justice because essentially that's what the Cardassians tried to do to the Bajorans, after all. Sisk would say that even if that were the case, he didn't have to drink a toast over their bodies. The Brain's actions would put them fairly high on the list of people we don't wish to fuck with in the Alpha Quadrant after they had been ignored for so long. And the paranoia around the conflict would forever rock the confidence of the Federation as a whole. Changeling detection scans became a part of daily life in the Federation, especially, especially for high-ranking officials, and those who survived would be racked with survivors' guilt. There wasn't a single individual in the Alpha Quadrant that didn't experience a direct and catastrophic impact because of the Dominion War. And though no official number has ever been released, the number of casualties is likely in the billions.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:13

Despite the- the the size of of like that area, if everyone was in some way impacted negatively by it, the amount just the the sheer weight of like death must have been insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:31

Oh yeah. I mean, we routinely talked about hundreds of ships being blinked out by the Dominion, and this was happening on a regular basis. I mean, there was a war that la there was a Klingon Cardassian war that lasted two years in the Dominion War and only ended because the Cardassians sided with the Dominion and started eradicating uh Klingons. It's it yeah, it is unfathomable how many um were lost. Yeah. Yeah. And despite the loss of so much life and so many worlds, normalcy would be attempted. The fear would remain, as the Dominion War proved that the greatest enemy the Federation could face was something to pretending to be one of their own. Any action, any action that the Federation did that even seemed slightly out of character would immediately cause individuals to blame changeling intervention in some capacity. As for the Dominion itself, though the war resulted in their surrender, it was just that. It was not a total defeat, and it certainly wasn't the dissolving of the Dominion itself. The Dominion would comply with the terms of surrender and return to the Gamma Quadrant, and the followers of the Founders would, of course, do so as well. Hell, they believed them to be gods genetically, so of course they were gonna follow. However, not all of them could return in a reasonable manner, particularly the Gem Hadar. Remember, a lot of the Gem Hadar had to switch to a different type of chemical to supplement them, and many of them were kind of just left behind in the process, resulting in sort of a hybridization in order to survive. The Vorta would never be seen again as they were likely doing quite a bit of damage control for the founters on the other side of the wormhole. The changelings also never truly returned. The only other time an incident occurred involving the changelings in the Alpha Quadrant in recent history involved a renegade group of changelings that never returned to the link. And they had a damn good reason not to return. They were being viciously vivisected and experimented on by you guessed it, Section 31, in an attempt to prevent. In an attempt to perfect the changeling detection across Starfleet, and the brutality they faced resulted in their leader being less concerned about returning to the Gamma Quadrant and more focused on aggressive retribution.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:17

Was that part of the of the plot for Picard season three, or am I misremembering?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:24

I can't say that I remember because I refused to watch past season one. So maybe it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:33

I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:36

They weren't the best. Season two is absolutely terrible. And season one wasn't brilliant either. But at least season three got like some of the original crew back and and they and they flew the galaxy class. Sort of technically enterprised the old one through a giganto borg cube, making it pull off maneuvers that most star fighters in other IPs aren't capable of. So that was nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:01

And I have one last quote for you. This was the final log from Benjamin Sisko, um, sort of as he was recounting um what he had done with uh the Vulcan uh senator.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:19

So I lied, I cheated, I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I'm an accessory to murder. But most damning thing of all, I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garrick was right about one thing. A guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant, so I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it. Computer, erase that entire personal log. Ow, ow.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:53

My soul hurts a little bit. He says he can live with it, but um, you know, he does he does end up erasing the entire log, recounting everything that went into the planning of that, into what he did with Garrick, about how he was disappointed in Garrick, about, you know, the the plot and the seedy sort of non-Federation way that they went about doing it, but kept the Alpha Quadrant safe. It was a necessary evil to get the Romulans into the war and to start pushing back the Dominion. If they don't do that, there's a good chance that they lose the Dominion war and everything is lost to the Dominion.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:33

Oh. But I I don't I'm not entirely sure he can live with it. I don't think that's promising at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:41

He is huffing the copium, and it's such a good episode, too, because uh him talking to his log is sort of interspliced throughout the uh episode, and it's just it's just him in an empty starship uh conference room on Deep Space Nine with just this this drink, and he's just sort of recounting it, and it's just oh, it's so it's such a good episode. If you can only watch one episode of Deep Space Nine after this, um after you listen to this episode of the podcast, go watch that one. Uh I think it's just called In the Pale Moonlight. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, Batman? I'm actually gonna go watch that now. It's a good one. At least with this episode, you have probably the context you need to get it. Um, but yeah, and it's a it's a Garrick heavy episode, which is just chef's kiss. Love that man. It's just phenomenal actor behind him, phenomenal character, just love it, love it, love it, love it. But that is Star Trek Deep Space Nine The Dominion War. How you feeling, Kiriath?

SPEAKER_02 1:53:57

That's that was just uh again, the classic uh trope of this podcast. Everything just getting worse and worse. And even when even when it was like, oh well the Kinda the the Kardashians are uh you know switching sides, this might actually end up being not as awful as it could have been. No, they got their home planet glassed. So even then, even after the thing of like it's okay, the gang are all together now, there's a chance, there still had to be a final blow of just absolute awful right at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:31

Yeah, they really did. And honestly, Possum put as much in there as he could, and still a lot of stuff was uh was what had to be omitted with uh Gold Dukat with Cisco and and the the trauma from Gold Dukat watching his daughter be murdered, and yeah, so Possum did a phenomenal job getting all of that into a script. And granted, this is a long-ish episode, but man, well done, Possum. Well done.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:01

Yeah, that was solid. Yeah, we're we're we're cl we're closing in on two on two hours. And if it's when it's something like that, when it's like multiple, multiple episodes of a show, you've you've there's some stuff that's just not gonna not gonna make it in there. Oh yeah. I I knew essentially nothing about this outside of having a vague idea as to how much of a uh how much of a badass Cisco can be. Um knowing that someone sleeps in a bucket. Um beyond that, most of the details I didn't really I didn't realize how absolutely awful it was. The various switching of sides and clutch coming in at the last moment. Absolutely quality. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:44

Yeah, it's just wild, just wild. You know what else is wild, Kirioth? Just how amazing the merch is over at Orchid8.com. You can go there and you can get a Weeb for Lincoln shirt, you like sci-fi shirt, a like history shirt, you can get a coin, you can get a wall scroll, orchidate.com, link in the description, link on the screen. Check it out. The merch is great, you'll look great in it, wonderful stuff, love it. Kirioth, how about you hit us with an outro, brother?

SPEAKER_02 1:56:16

And if you need that extra reminder, even though he mentioned it at the start, I'm gonna do one last one right now. Head over to patreon.com or slash acceptable losses and check that out too, because it's worth it. It's so good. We have a blast making it, you get extra stuff. I mean, what's not to like? That was great. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you for ruining my day, DK, and uh I'm gonna go back now to the various screenshots and images that Shai's provided to continue my hunt for more galaxy class ships in that screenshot. See if you can find all nine. Yeah, yeah. And by the time I'm done, it will be time for the next one, so you can come back for that as well. Bye.

unknown 1:56:55

Bye.