Mountain Biking in SEQ Episode 11 (with special guest Luke Wolfik)

Welcome to Episode 11 of the Mountain Biking in South East Queensland Podcast with Oppy, Lachie and special guest Luke Wolfik of Norco Bicycles (not the milk company, just to be sure). We chat a range of topics including trail networks, racing, the bike industry and the nostalgia of how mountain biking came to be what it is in South East Queensland.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Ladies and gentlemen, we are back again. Another episode of Mountain Biking in South East Queensland. We've got a great guest tonight, Industry Insider, Legend of the Sport, OP. Um how have you been since we last chatted a few weeks back?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Well, I've had a had a change of plans. I was uh not going to be going to the Nationals this year. I was like, no, I've been a few years, I'll give it a miss, but uh, it's back on. So three weeks away, the training's ramping up.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

You had something else lined up too for your for your trip down to Victoria, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

It's ironic after talking with Cam last episode about events and and events being cancelled. The uh unfortunately the Mystic Yak will remain a mystery. Stage race. Three-day stage race in Victoria, yes. Unfortunately, they didn't didn't get the numbers signing up and they went, well, we're gonna pull the pin early because people are booking flights and accommodation. We want them to give them a chance to get refunds. But uh it's a bit of a shame.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

It is. I had the pleasure of and so did you of of seeing that um event group come and run some races with the Quad Crown up in the sunny coast area, and it was a great event, but that's the reason they didn't come back, I think, is the there was not enough take up in in people attending the the race. But you still got a trip down south coming up.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Yeah, so I I might even poach a little uh sneak in an extra little gravel event while I'm down there. So um speaking of industry, which we are tonight, I thought uh it would be a great opportunity to talk to a longtime riding buddy of mine, uh industry insider uh Luke Wolfick. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us. You've come from my old local suburb of Holland Holland Park. Um is that is that where you grew up?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

No, I actually grew up out in the western suburbs of uh close to Ipswich. Okay. So just down the road from Oppie.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

So West side in a real.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

That's it. That's uh yeah, yes, pretty much my whole life out out that way until my early twenties and then moved in towards the city.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

So I uh did what I usually do before we have a chat with someone and and check my archives of of photos and see what were what I've got. Um and a whole a whole ton came up with you. I remember seeing you quite often. There was I mean, there's some years I was shooting mountain bike events every weekend or every couple of weekends, and um so we had the enduro series, we've got epics, we've got um you kind of were doing a bit of everything, cross country and enduro, and and and you're downhill as well, I imagine.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, originally downhill like yeah, but years and years ago, and then then enduro and yeah, sort of jumping. Yeah. Double doubled in a bit of that jumping.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

So nice. I was gonna say normally we ask our guest what their first mountain bike is, but I'm gonna have a stab. You probably know. So uh my recollection, it if it wasn't your first, it may have been your second bike, was a really sweet GT hardtail that got characterum, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, is that was that your first mountain bike? That was my second. So pretty close, yeah. The first one was uh I think I got it from Frank's A1 Cycles, where you did a bit of work. So it was an Apollo, so Aussie brand, Apollo Himalaya. So it was a steel little chromolly hardtail, obviously fully rigid back then and cantilever brakes. Um, but you know, I didn't keep it stock for very long. I back then you had to get the bar ends. So Velocity, a local company, did some really cool, like I think red, um like powder coated bar ends. So chucked them on there for a bit of bling, and then obviously you had to get the right tires. So I remember ordering these um Paneracer smoke and dart tires from America when you had filled out like a you know what there was no internet, so you just filled out a sheet of paper and said, This is your order, mailed it off to the States, and then like a few months later your tires came in the mail and chucked them on. So yeah, that was 91. I think I had that that first hardtail, and then obviously GT was a pretty cool brand at the time. So I think Oppie had a a GT um steel hardtail. Avalanche.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

An avalanche still got it, it's in the shed.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

So I was a bit inspired by that and and wanted to get and found a secondhand caracorum, so got that. It was fully rigid, but I think I picked up a set of RST suspension forks from you, which was my first suspension item. I don't think they worked at all, but they looked cool, so that was um yeah, that was a fun bike, and and it ended up getting stolen, unfortunately. I think you mentioned earlier. I unf left it out the front of my parents' um house and didn't lock it up, and then sadly it was gone.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

So highly desirable item.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

So when did you start bumping into uh Oppie over here at was it around that Ipswich area?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, I think around that 91, 92. Like I was riding with a group of friends independently, um, but my brother is a similar sort of age to to Oppie and knew him through scouts or something like that. So uh Oppie would come by the house on his mountain bike and I'd be like, oh yeah, this guy, you know, rides as well. And um eventually we started yeah, doing some social rides together. And um we were you know, the local shop obviously down the road. Um, Frank Sabon Cycles, Oppie did a bit of work there, and I got my bike through there, so we had a bit of an affiliation. We used to take some social rides through the shop as well, and uh forgotten about that in exchange for getting good deals on on bikes, which was great. So yeah, so that we we were just riding you know fire roads and stuff back then mostly.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And down at Tucker's Dam.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah, it was fortunate like Oppie was up the hill a little bit further away, but at the end of my street, we had uh um a bush area. I think it was the old Tucker's farm that um was purchased by the council or something. It had an oil pipeline that would run through it, so because of that, it had these really cool like um jumps the whole way down. So we called it um yeah, pipeline, and it basically you could just start at the top, it was pretty much just straight with like these rollers that you could just jump the whole way down, and that was kind of our downhill track at the time. So that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Who else were you riding with at the time? Any other things?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, we had um my brother and then a mate Andy, who and and the all four of us still every now and then we ride uh we ride with each other still, like what's that 35, yeah, 30 plus 30 years ago. And and we all still ride mountain bikes very regularly and still really passionate about the sport to this day. So it's pretty cool that we started out as teenagers riding together and and yeah, still still doing it, so which was cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I I still have vivid memories of uh learning to wheelie riding up the road to your place. It was just this perfect gravel, uh perfect uh grade on the road. It was just a little bit uphill where you just shift your weight back, and it'd be like last bit getting back to the house is like how far can we wheelie up the road? And it wasn't long before you know, Luke being that little bit younger and a little bit had more time to practice, he got a lot better than than us.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And uh I I remember watching his progression when he started building dirt jumps in the backyard and yeah, with one-handers and one-footers, and yeah, I think that was key to the progression is just kind of it we built berms, and then once you start sort of you know riding that uh every day, you just suddenly get a whole lot better really quick. So, you know, I I remember I couldn't, you know, I didn't even know how to jump, I couldn't even bunny hop, had like no skills, and then but you build these these trails in your backyard, and then you know every day after school you you're out there for two, three hours, and after like a few months of doing that, you just you learn how to corner and you learn how to jump and then you know just sort of progress from there, which is cool. So and that that led to downhill and yeah, yeah, downhill um probably started around 90 sort of five, ninety-six. So um back, I think I got an early giant full suspension bike similar to the one that you had, one of that it was like two and a half inches of travel front and rear, so very much not a downhill bike, but it was what we had to use. And yeah, I think Castle Hill Blackstone was probably like the first downhill race I did, and still still 17, 18, so sort of a junior junior category racer, and then yeah, ended up racing downhill maybe 10 or 12 years.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, right. You can probably tell me better um as far as dates go, but it's like this is early days in Australian mountain biking, really, isn't it? Like d the introduction of of mountain biking as a sport, and as far as downhill races, was there not a Cairns World downhill in around that time?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. There was a World Cup in maybe '94 that that I was too young to you know go and watch or whatever, but heard heard about it, new people that went. And then obviously the big thing was the Cairns World Champs in '96, which I was in year twelve, pretty busy with exams and stuff, so I couldn't go up. But uh Oppie and my brother Dan and mate Andy all went up and they got photos of them standing on the podium, like poaching this the podium for you know fun pictures.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

And was that with the crazy shark at the top or something? Wasn't there a yeah? The top of the downhill had a big fiberglass shark head, and you rode out of the shark head into the rainforest and fantastic photos.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

It's pretty iconic, yeah. That's very well and we had a fit because it was local, we had a heaps of mates who were able to call it race the cross country uh and the downhill. Like I remember like you know, guys like Dan Pradell and Mel Dalton raced the downhill, and like Shane Wode was in the cross country, maybe Rex as well. Like all these guys that we just rode in neighborhoods suddenly got to race at in a world champs, which was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So I I was really filthy because I was eligible to race the cross country and I sort of hit my parents up and like, can I can I you know can I can you can I fly up? Can you put you know, because I didn't have the money? And um and they're like nah. And I was like, oh and then um yeah, they like gave me a present for my birthday of like that we're gonna pay for the flights for you, but it was after the nomination had closed, and I was like, no, nothing to close. I would have been way out at the back, like a lot of the LCs were, but we made up the numbers. I mean just a good good to say you did it, huh? Yeah, yeah. But there's still there's still plenty of guys that have uh you know a uh green and gold banded jer uh jersey hanging up in the shed, oh yeah, race the world champs. Yeah and mine. Maybe that's what drives me to go to the keep going to the national.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

It's just a deep childhood trauma.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah, well, you know, you never know, it might be on might be on the cards.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

So, how did you hear about events back then as far as when there was no social media the way there is now, like promotion promotion of events or hearing about it? I guess there was just this grassroots community.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Well there was a club, a really strong club scene, which was really cool. Like, um obviously there was the rats, which I think Oppie was a part of a bit further along, but but we were in Ipswich, so there was the Ipswich off-road cyclist, which maybe you were like a founding member or something. I don't know, yeah, and it was through the shops as well. Like I remember going in, I bought my bike from a different shop, but I went to the uh the shop in the main street of Ipswich and the owner Gavin Greenhill, like he was he was involved in the club and he sort of told me, Oh, we're doing a social ride here, and there's a race coming up here. So you just hear about through through the club and through the the shops basically. There was this kind of grassroots scene, and and then further along, um, there was uh uh a club started called TRC, the Riders Club, and it was kind of a whole heap of shop owners and people from the industry in Brisbane who kind of all came together, started this club, obviously for just for riders, and and we used to I remember going to the meetings uh there, you know, every month we'd have a meeting and you'd talk about what there'd be a new old school newsletter that someone would print out on their home computer and staple it and and that'd have like you know a bit of a recap on the event that had been on, and then it it had an events calendar, so you you knew that the local um events were coming up and and all your mate, you know, mates were gonna be there, and so yeah, it was just sort of word of mouth and and a lot through the clubs, I think, which was which was really cool.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

So And was it just your love of riding a bike that got you into I guess what tinkering with your bike and into the how'd you get into like the industry, how'd you start working in in the bike field? Yeah. Have you done anything else other than work in the bike field?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think um like I always as a teenager loved loved bikes. I kind of got out of you know the usual team sports like soccer and cricket to just focus on even pretty early on, like when I was 15. All I all I did was ride my bike on the weekends and and rode during the week to school after school. So I was always you know hugely passionate about riding. But um, yeah, I was really interested in sort of events and outdoors, so I s I studied event uh well a subject, a degree called leisure management at uni, which kind of focused on event management and and sports management. So I was thinking, yeah, I'll go into that kind of sports field, hopefully maybe can get into running running like bike events and that sort of thing. Like I did a prack at the extreme games when that was on the Gold Coast, and I did a prack um at Cycling Queensland, helping them like organise you know mountain bike events and things. So I thought I might get into the industry that way because I didn't really have the mechanical skills or the the sales background to get a job in a bike shop. Like Oppie was was good on the tools, so he was working at the big bike, and a lot of other mates were working at various different bike shops around Brisbane. I thought, oh, that's gonna be hard to get into. So I went down a different path and I ended up working through an another friend who was a mountain biker who managed a JB Hi-Fi store. So I worked in in retail, so I got this kind of um background in in selling um consumer products, and and that eventually led, I guess, to me selling selling bikes in the bike industry. So that's kind of where I got my first start was um yeah, 99 bikes in there kind of as a retail sort of sales consultant, so yeah, selling bikes. Um but I was always more interested in the product side. So I think that was like ultimately where I wanted to go, and that's kind of where I've ended up, which is which is cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

So when did 99 bikes come come about?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Because it was I remember it was I was at JB, it was 2007, and I was I decided I was gonna go to the UK to to try and do some travel and work over in London. So but I met Matt Turner, the founder of 99, before I went, and he was telling me about um they were gonna start up, and I was like, oh that could be a good thing to do, but I decided I'd go to London, try that first. So I went to London. I actually worked in a bike shop in London for a few weeks, like it was this shop called On Your Bike at London Bridge, and I thought it was gonna be amazing. You know, first job in the bike industry. Turned out it was terrible. I was paid like this minimum wage, and I I they wouldn't let me on the level two where they sold the bikes and kept the bikes, they kept me downstairs in the clothing section. So all I was doing was like fitting people for raincoats and you know bibnicks and things like that. And I was like, ah, this is this is not for me, and this is so I you know out of the bike industry for a bit. But when I came back from London in 2010, I got in touch with Matt Turner again and got a job at 99 bikes and yeah, a couple of years in retail sales, and then got into more of their you know product category management type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

So now I I wanna I want to pick you up on something that uh uh Luke uh the idea that Luke tinkering on bikes, he's he was famous for not tinkering on his bike. His bike used to be it'd sound like uh a uh a toolbox falling down a set of stairs, it'd rattle and bang, and it'd be like we we'd go out for a ride and it'd be like, What is that noise? And it'd be like, Oh, oh yeah, that's loose. And it's like, well, and so yeah, the first part of a ride would often be like tightening things and adjusting things on his bike.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah, they they gave me a nickname at a downhora race once as just married because you know people used to tie things behind the car when you got married, and my bike rattled so much. Sort of sounded like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So that's funny. I can't laugh. My bike's got a broken spoke sitting in the shed, so I've been going for walks and runs instead. That explains your strava. I've just got to line up when I'm next past the uh going past the bike shop that I can drop it in and just get all the tools next time. Yeah, next time we come around. That's true. I was gonna I was gonna make a joke. We'll do a live maintenance session just to teach the folks, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

That's a good idea, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Just fix my bike. I'll uh I'll bring my um Hosan wheel truing stand. It's a cast iron relic from the past that um actually belonged to 90 uh belonged to Big Bike at Underwood, and they bought a new nice park tool stand, and they were gonna like spin the old one because it had it was cast iron, it had actually cracked, it'd been rewelded. And I remember saying, Oh, you know, if you're just tossing it in the skip, I'll I'll have it. Well, I reckon that's like 20 years ago, and it still works fine. It's a little bit hard to use with uh through axles because it it's designed for like um quicker lakes, but anyhow.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah, right. You had such a cheeky smile before. I thought you were gonna ask something about the 99 number that you'd been to a shop and there were only 98 bikes or something like hey so they started famously in one shop in Milton and they would sell a bike.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

They had a $99 bike. You could come in, get a bike for $99, hence 99%. Is that what it comes from? Okay, yeah. 99 bikes, but high budget isn't one. But yeah, so yeah, he it changed. Matt really uh uh changed the retail landscape because it was the biggest chain to come in. Well, it became the biggest chain. I think it's still the biggest chain.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, by far now. I think there's like 65 or 70 stores around Australia now, so it's huge, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

So I mean that's one of the interesting things that you started uh at retail and then you moved up into uh category manager. What is it what do you call it?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, so I was a category manager at at 99, so I started looking after like the um accessories, so like you know, pumps and locks and lights and all that sort of thing. So I would kind of decide on the range and then order all the product for the from the wholesalers and get it into the stores and then yeah, and get it up on online and all that kind of thing. So yeah, that was that was really fun.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Like I enjoyed the product side of things and it was a bit more sort of and do you get to uh preview and test and decide it's like well, you know, but you know that that knowledge and years of writing helps you identify well that's a pump that's gonna work or that's like that's pretty rubbish, we won't get that in.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Does that sort of inform Yeah, yeah, and even like we sourced product from from China, so like we had some uh our own brand 99 branded like pumps, and that was kind of cool to say, you know, let's let's find a product that we like and then get it, you know, create created essentially, get it branded, and then and then you put it in stores and then people buy it, and you're like, oh that's kind of cool. That was just something from a that I chose from a catalogue and now it's it's selling and it seems to be working okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

So so do you do you did you ever get the chance to uh to brand a a fix it stick?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Fix it stick, no.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

So um I I remember looking at it he was so frustrated. Was it your cannon? I think it was the cannon, a fabulous super V downhill cannon, rare item. And it was he was so frustrated with it not working.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I think the chain came off again because it used to just drop the chain, the terrible chain retention on downhill bikes.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Well, no clutch derailers back then, and yeah, he was like I beat it with the stick. Beating on the top chip with the stick, it didn't make the bike work TV better to work if they're not working, so it felt better.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I remember, yeah, like I think it was at Clear Mountain, and I remember some of the guys come around the corner and like the bike's like in the bushes on its side, and I'm like beating it with a stick, and like, what are you doing? I was like, it's not working.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Oh my god, put it in timeout, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So instead of like trying to fix it, I was like, Well, that's my solution.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

So I like it. So it's he does have I mean, he's got his older brother, I think, both enabled this habit and and um helped him out by by being a good big brother and doing a lot of the bike maintenance for you.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Pretty sure you fixed a few of my bikes over the years, but but yeah, Dan definitely is it still is to this day. My my mechanics.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, I'm gonna say, have you got a bit better?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

or uh you just got a bigger stitch. I've got lots of people that can you know at my disposal now. Surround yourself with good people, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Like why you know it's just why do it yourself when so speaking of surrounding yourself with good people now, you've moved on from 99 bikes, and yeah, I see you're representing here today. So who what's what uh is your role title and what's your position description now?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah, so I'm the brand manager for Norco Bikes Australia. So not the milk. Not the milk, although it is often confusing for people. So we should do a collaboration, you know, with you could really milk that relation.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is out of madness.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, yeah. So they've also got a similar history. I think they've been around longer than we have, but yeah, but basically, yeah, looking after um sort of its sales, marketing, um, yeah, on the on the product side of things. So um I was doing a similar role for the distributor. So Advanced Traders distributed NOCO in Australia for 10 or 12 years, uh and I worked for them for you know 10 years or so.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

So Advance were owned by the same parent group that 99 bikes was, so it was a bit of an evolution.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah, the pedal group sort of owned. Um so I worked essentially for moved from 99 into the um the wholesale side of things, which is kind of where I wanted to to get to. And then fortunately one of the brands we distributed was Norco, which I was a big fan of being a Canadian mountain bike brand, and really sort of resonated with. with what I liked. So obviously angled to try and get into the NORCO side of the business and yeah that that worked out really well and was great for a number of years. And then when Norco Canada or Norco Global decided to set up in Australia last year, April last year, um yeah I made the move across to to work for them directly. So so it's coming up on 12 months now and it's been been really cool so far.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

So I expect you're like you know flying to Canada hanging out with Minar. Like what is what does an average day look like in a in that kind of a role?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah I mean we're we're a really small team so we um there's just a small office in Brisbane and there's there's four of us so we're very hands-on so it's sometimes it's it's a bit of everything like we're I'm answering the phone um speaking to most mostly our retail network and supporting them but often you know consumers will just ring in they'll find our number and they just want to know the specs on a bike or you know so it's it's it's all sorts of things but primary role is I order the bikes for Australia so we bring in obviously thousands of bikes each year and you know I've I decide on the range. I offer a huge range of bikes and maybe not every single model comes into Australia for various reasons so I decide what models we bring in and then obviously um yeah we we we reorder fairly regularly from the factories in Asia and try and figure out with a really smart planning team of how how many we need and uh to keep us going but obviously to sell the bikes then we've got a a great dealer network that need need support and they need resources and we've got a sales team you know sales reps on the road in every state and territory and um yeah we support them by you know we price the bikes and then um we launch a sales program that they can take out and present to to stores to so the stores can order the bikes and then obviously um yeah once they come in and they're on retail floors and they need to be marketed we need to create brand awareness and we do that through you know sponsoring and attending events obviously you know lock when you've been to heaps of events where there's banners from various brands was it um what's the three three plus three or one yeah sponsor the three plus three yeah there's a bike giving away a couple of years ago yeah we gave away a bike a couple of years ago which was fun so things like that just getting the word out like there was a I think a kids race as part of that event so we have a a really good kid's bike but maybe parents aren't aware of that particular bike so you know we go to the event we have the bike there give it away you know get some awareness and then hopefully those kids will their friends will see it and they'll go in and a retailer and you know ask for the bike and and obviously we partner with with great media partners like you know Flow Mountain Bike and other Australian mountain bike here in Brisbane and they do reviews of the bike so there's coordinating that side of things so um yeah sponsorship too we we have we find um you know ambassadors like you know we might be looking for a over 50s you know washed up cross country it's an I I'm I'm look mature age riders are people that buy lots of bikes we've got a nice you know revolver Julie that I I could see you on and you know a bit of a so yeah we sponsor ambassadors athletes um around the country that attend events and obviously I'll get the word out um on our our bikes as well so for me it's yeah there's a marketing element to the role um and there's a a big sales uh component as well and then it's just a bit of at the moment because we're a small team just getting stuck in and doing everything like if the a shipment of bikes arrives you know we and you know grab a box you know help out um they try and keep me off the tools obviously if I don't smash things yeah we need a photo of you with a stick on there on their like service page service and repairs coming soon.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Well I actually did warranty for NOCA for years before this current role so that was uh he needs to be on the RD destructive testing team stick to it you know they said it wouldn't work uh now I was gonna say I think it's really interesting to we'cause we've spoken to a lot of mountain bikers and um but it was really interesting to try and get you here because the industry like people's perception of the industry is oh like they must be huge and it's like it's actually Australia is on a global scale a small market. So you've got quite small teams in all parts of the Australian industry and it's quite tight knit and and people are really generalist they do lots of stuff so it's really interesting to hear you talk about that and how it works in practice because you know a lot of people when they do ring up Norco they think oh you know it'll be a big it'll be a huge office complex and there'll be like a ton of uh they don't expect to have you on the phone but now that you've said it so you know get an increase in calls yeah yeah put the number on the screen the number just uh you'll see it up here no yeah no it's it's rewarding like you get some like I had uh a mother of a teenage boy on the phone a few days ago chasing a dual suspension bike for the kid's birthday and you know you talk about um yeah recommend something you know and then they hang up you know kind of oh he's gonna be so stoked with this bike and you know that's ultimately why we do it is just to get more people riding bikes.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Share the stoke.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah exactly so I hope the Domino's driver who just delivered our pizza who sold his mountain bike to buy his youth that he delivered our pizza in I I hope he's listening and he gets back on a bike. But yeah I know what you mean it's yeah rewarding part of the job.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Definitely I think that um that's what makes the bicycle industry really great and the and the bicycle community in Australia it is it is tight knit and pretty small and you know like uh a lot of our listeners or viewers they'll they'll see Luke or myself or yourself out out in the in the events in industry on the bike path and you know start say good A so you know there's uh there's it's a real community it is yeah for sure and that's what makes it fun the people the people in the bike industry are really really cool people and it's yeah there's some great characters and like it's a lot of fun. Like 30 plus years of friendship with this guy and like we're still riding with guys that we met uh yeah we've probably got I could we probably go through 20 or 30 people that we've been riding with for 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

We've got time now and yeah you go to an event and you see like I was at Sea Ottawa um last year the first time in Australia and it was just everyone familiar uh no that was down at like MOGO. Mogo. Yeah yeah um so no um New South Wales South Coast um yeah really cool spot and just the but the industry turned up and it was just everyone kind of just hanging out and like everyone knew everyone and yeah it was really really good vibe and um like you say everyone kinda has history with you know there's always someone to talk to and a lot of these other brands too the other bike brands you know we're competing but at the same time we all everyone knows each other and everyone gets along and um they're all kind of hands on as well like you know the the general manager of whatever companies you know out there you know fixing repairing things or on the phone as well so it's all it's a pretty small industry and everyone gets it and you know cares about it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I remember having chats with um one of the team from Advanced Traders at at that three plus three event and this was sort of after I mean COVID six years ago now we're talking about when that sort of struck the events I realized I had 95% of my work was events so you know gone. But the bike industry was was went went crazy for a while there. Yeah um but then obviously it's got to have leveling off effects have we ridden that wave completely like what what have you found where we post COVID six years later it's been a while.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah I think it's finally starting to get there like the last last 12 months like but yeah it wasn't that long ago that the industry was still well and truly oversupplied and there was still like heavy discounting and and bike companies and bike shops you know going bust around the country around the world so it's it's been really hard and a really long time and yeah a lot of my my work life you know in the last five or six years has been that covert related like it was a real high like we were selling bikes left right and centre and then and then we just had a lot of inventory come in and then it takes a lot of time to to get through that and and basically it's it's only just started to to happen and the industry's kind of leveling out and now people are with you know there's lots of fresh new product there's been a few changes in the last couple of years with a lot more technology in the e-bike space and it's kind of drawing more people in I think um and just in general you know cycling's growing and there's other categories like gravel and things like that to get people on bikes so it is it is starting to improve and there's there's a fair bit of positivity I think that Sea Otter event in October was a bit of a turning point like people came back to an event on a wide scale and there was you know people turned up to from the cycling community to to to to be there and to check out the the different brands and there was a lot of positivity that things are starting to improve so yeah I think hopefully from now and yeah it'll just continue to to increase which is yeah I think it's not it's not crazy to think that there was a five year like impact of some sort that went for that like like a lot of people think people were affected by COVID for a year or two or just in the moment or just had to work from home but there was you know for a lot of people in some industries and organizations it's it's it's taken those four to five six years to to come back to where they where they were or get through the exhaustion of it.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Should we switch gears a little bit? I'm kind of interested in your we were talking off camera before about some of our favourite local spots to to ride and we're looking at some old quarries and stuff we've all visited but yeah yeah what's um what's your favourite if you were to have someone come here and say SEQ where should I ride where do you point them what's your favourite place to ride?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah it's uh it's a tough one because I ride kind of um a few different disciplines and being I guess like guys like myself and Oppie we because we started when there wasn't really these distinct like you know you know you weren't an enduro rider or downhill rider like we did we did everything bikes it was kind of like cross country but we enjoyed going well I enjoy going down more and the more technical side of things so but nowadays yeah I think the trail centres are there's some pretty specific places that are more suited towards cross country so if the if I was meeting someone and you know they kind of ask I guess what what sort of what type of trails are you into do you like sort of steep rocky technical terrain and then I'd probably recommend I guess somewhere like um you know Westmount Cotton's got some some pretty good um you know black technical trails and if they want you know rocks and rough then you know narang down the Gold Coast but if they want more you know smooth flowy trails obviously Daisy Hill's got great great cross country network um you know gap creek as well and um yeah I think Brisbane we're pretty fortunate like there's a lot of good networks around close to the city with with great trails and a lot of variety too like you know castle hill out at Blackstone is is pretty cool if you want it's a small area but it's got some really cool technical trails a bit more of an old school kind of feel so yeah I think I'd probably steer them more towards the Castle Hills and the the Westmount cotton because that's kind of the trails that I like to ride but but having said that I've got a uh our general manager's moved down here from Vancouver Canada and he's more into his cross country riding so we've we've both got New Norco Revolver like sort of cross country downcountry bikes so I've been taking him to the cross country places like we've taken him to Daisy Hill to Bunya to Cornubia and now maybe this weekend I might try um you know um Einbark or somewhere else like that that's but sticking to those cross country trails because that's kind of what he's he's into rather than the you know the steep technical stuff so yeah I guess you didn't mention uh boomers or maybe is it N N V Yeah I guess that's not that's another but that's uh it's a bit more of a niche like for the the downhill that's a big jump flow yeah for those guys yeah you have that much here of that. No but it is I mean Boomerang Farm seems to get good good turnout for that kind of crowd so I guess you kind of forget about it because it's not really on maybe on my radar as much I probably only go there once every two or three years and um but if I had like a young downhill rider coming in a state to visit from interstate that's probably what I would recommend they go to go there do some shuttles you know there's good jump lines it's good I haven't even been to Envy Gravity Park so I should probably check that out.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

I want to go and I haven't been to Boomers yet oh really well I've been focused on cross country racing of course yeah well Envy has been through a lot of there was a stage there they had a group and they were sharing updates and I think it's Michael who was who's running everything down there where they would get everything nicely done the trails set up and then they'd have a month of rain or something that just kept like pushing things back but sounds like they've had a lot of help and a lot of um positive moving forward and they're open and they're you know I'm keen to hear from people what it's what what they think of the place but there's um some big gaps big air time yeah yeah bunch of stuff going on there timber features I think might be getting a bit too old for that these days well had a few uh injuries the last couple of years so all right I was gonna ask you when you mentioned Westies which is 10 minutes I'm gonna say I don't think Luke's got a leg to stand on.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Nah well I think I've had four at least four broken legs I kind of lost count is that right yeah and one of them was at Westies actually I can only see you I thought you only had two to be honest. I have had that joke I think I would learn my lesson but like put it out there and pop it again but yeah no I've got some pretty pretty decent scars uh on the legs from multiple surgeries and things so that's a big one right there that's my most recent addition which I just show that off and and I can see both your knees are both the knees yeah and there's uh there's a few there's another one on that side too that okay yeah so are they are they scars from the incident or post from the surgeries.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah yeah when they put the hardware in so do I I'm new to the scar thing do I like pull mine out and compare it yeah yeah yeah yeah look at that from a good one just over at Scribbly gun. Scribbly yeah I wouldn't car of Scribbly yeah you know what it probably is like Scribbly's not ridden all that much so the more riders you have through a an area the wider the trails become and the more clear and common it is for branches to be thrown out of the way. Yeah yeah so I've I've hit a must have been like six to eight meter long tree that had fallen with a really sharp point pretty much running into like a jousting pole as I came around the corner. Yeah so I just didn't know it was there and flew into it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Yeah but you know I I you win you gotta have some scars as a mountain biker right it's like yeah yeah yeah are you really a mountain biker if you don't have scars? I mean it's just falling is part of the game. Yeah it's just funny that how long ago was it this is recent. This was 15 weeks ago um but not that long he's he's newly back to the bike.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah I got back on pretty early despite you know doctor's advice advice is alright.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Can't help myself so how are you sorry I'm just keen to ask how you come back I think you could ask a bunch of people but you watch someone like um who's the the fellow who just did his back at rampage Adolph or something Silver. Yeah like it's what's the mental game in I mean I find myself riding hard again and not thinking about it. I I do think about branches around corners and maybe slow down a little bit more but I'm not I'm also not racing and I'm not in the same mindset as a lot of others who get back on the bike and just go again.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah you just like me oh I just learnt to not you know I guess when you're when you're riding and you've been doing it for a long time it's kind of like you're you're very focused on the trail and ahead and you don't you kind of put that sort of stuff well yeah well I do anyway you have to put it out of your mind when you're riding so um and even when I'm not riding like I could be I'm not gonna ride these black trails anymore because I don't want to risk it but I I don't kind of take that mindset I'm just like well it happened and you know it's it's part of the risk that I accept and it's not going to stop me doing what I love and there's there's still going to be a risk but yeah you know I might go a little bit slower or be a little bit more cautious on certain instances but yeah it's it's definitely you kind of have to choose that you're either in or you're out and yeah I've just learned that that the injuries are going to happen and hopefully they don't happen too frequently or too too full on but um yeah and I've learned to come back pretty well I think as well like you you learn how to how to recover and um and and what mindset you need to kind of recover quickly and like this time round because of the previous experiences I was able to get get back on the bike after like six weeks after surgery and after a pretty bad sort of lower leg fracture and I've got a plate and some pins and stuff in the tibia but um but yeah it doesn't slow me down.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Yeah I wonder I think um once you've been riding for a long time you understand it can happen but you understand that there are thousands of thousands of rides between a a serious incident like they are low probability high consequence events.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Exactly yeah yeah most of mine have been like instead of being like a I'm I'm not doing like a 60 foot gap jump at 60k an hour and like you know having some massive crash it's usually something like just something awkward or uh a weird kind of twisting motion or an accident and I'm like well it's not I've ridden down some Nally trail like five minutes before and had a moment where I could have had a big crash but I didn't and then I've just kind of stopped and like you know slow speed like fallen to the side and put my leg out and it's yeah broken my leg or whatever. So it's like when you kind of weigh that up it's well it's it yeah these things can happen.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yeah you got those thousands of positive moments of reinforcement in your mind that I can you know you go and thinking I can do this trail it's just one-offs that that that you slip up.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Yeah the first ride's always hard coming back because you're like feeling you know a bit sort of awkward a bit but I think a few rides in you just you if you've done it for so long it's a bit of muscle memory and your body just kind of you just kind of you don't forget how to ride and you're kind of just back into the groove and then yeah so no medics have known you by name when they've come back in the next they get to know me pretty well there's a green whistle with your name on it. No there should be I think but they uh they've been pretty good over the years the medics like the last the last guys were um they actually got me back on my I have I had it crashed on an e-bike this time so and because I was uh obviously I was in the trail so they couldn't really get the the stretch room with the little wheels and stuff so they were like oh you've got an e-bike can you can you get back on and I'm like I've got a broken leg but I'll give it a go and and I put it in walk mode and could use a little button to kind of make the bike um yeah like ride me out at slow speed like without me to paddle it and they were stoked they were like yeah we were gonna have to like carry you on the stretcher for like 500 meters and we didn't have to so that's pretty pretty happy I haven't heard of that mode actually.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Is that an Orco bike?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah it is yeah selling feature well it's it's a Bosch Bosch part you know partnership yeah but yeah you can hold the button down and it'll kind of go by itself uh at a s at slow speed so yeah they're an absolute bugger to push uphill yeah it's exactly for that I you know Geordie a friend of mine Geordie's got an e-bike yeah and uh he lives out at Twombum we've been riding out there and uh he was saying uh said I will go down there he's like I no we don't won't go down there because it's too steep to ride back up and he said it's such a bugger to push and I'm like well you don't put it into walk mode he's like what's walk mode so he'd been he'd been pushing the like 25 30 kilo e-bike back up this steep unrideable hill terrible did you read the manual?

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Oh no I don't read manuals but it but if the battery's completely flat you're not gonna have that are you no no no but this is like a yeah no I'm just thinking because today we uh we were testing the range on that that fat boy Harlem bike out the back it's 40 kilos and I had to go pick up my mate Toby from a few streets away because he'd he'd he got forty 40k's out of it 42 pretty good before it gave up on him. He could have him with 50k on the back to test the not yeah yeah no no so I went and towed him back.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

So I mean e-bikes are uh I was gonna start I mean you've been riding as long as I have and and you've seen lots of changes and e-bikes is the is uh still comparatively new um 32 inch wheels yes or no I was just um reading an article like uh I think it was one of the you know pink bike or something and it was like what brands are kind of getting behind it.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

I haven't heard anything really from Norco yet and I haven't I'm too scared to ask um but it's not really their kind of niche um it's but I'm sure someone some major player is going to get on board at some point. And I mean if you look at 29 has everyone said the same thing when they first proposed a 29er wheel that it's not going to take off no one's gonna go for no one's gonna adopt it and now it's kind of the standard but I don't know I mean it just looks too big. But I know that you know there's a couple of tire brand there's a tire brand doing it there's obviously mana to do a fork and I think um there's a couple of obviously people frame makers doing it so there's there's enough now that you can build a bike enough components so people are going to be riding them and I guess if there's a market for it then other brands will get

SPEAKER_01 44:00

on board because I think there's like I think there's a market for it, but there's a market for lots of things that are niche. You can still ride a 24-inch wheel mountain bike, um dirt jump, street trials, 24-inch wheels. You've got you know bikes that are running 26 inch wheels that are doing you know uh dirt jump or um so uh if you're well over six foot a 32 inch wheel bicycle makes sense the use case and the incremental uh increase or advantage that decreases when you go back through the height range so there are uh shorter stature athletes at the moment struggling to get on 29s and um and and it's uh we've seen we saw a big shift away from 275 to full 29 and then it was like oh hang on you've seen a bit of a um we've come back from that there's a lot more mullet bikes or bikes that have a bigger front wheel and a smaller rear wheel so the you have to buy a whole new uh system basically if you're going to 32 inch wheels and I don't think the use case is there yet for everyone if you're six foot four and you're a World Cup pro and not too many of those guys yeah it makes sense Charlie Aldridge so I already saw um I think it might have even been Pink Bike or NSMBA or NS NSMB that were predicting Charlie Aldridge because he rides for Canada they've already got their lefty fork which will can fit their uh 32 pretty easily but um so he might be the first person to ride in a World Cup possibly win but everyone other than that you've got to have now we've got a larger rim you need a larger fork you need different frame geometry you need probably wider hubs to get the same angle between the spokes to get the same level of strength you've got to have more material so you either make it heavier or weaker for the same weight. A lot of the advantage that I'm um I read I think it was um GMB Global mountain bike. Oh yeah they had they did a test of a steel hardtail prototype and they were saying the biggest advantage is the grip round a corner and it's like that's a function of contact tire tire contact patch so you could get some of that advantage by running 2.4s or 2.5 tyres that World Cup pros were already running. So i for all the change and development that needs to happen currently the use case isn't really there for World Cup uh or for for for the general user um for nine for 29ers it really took 10 years from the first 29ers to having high quality bikes where they'd dialed in the geometry we went from narrow spacing hubs to boost and super boost in some cases. Ultra mega boost maybe that's what we need for 32s ultra mega boost I'm chalk that one up. Yeah so I I think it's it's interesting to see the experimentation. Do you do you get any kind of um do you get uh to see behind the scenes as an indust industry insider? Because I was there was an article about Norco building 3D printed lugs and carbon tube prototypes.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Yeah yeah so are you like hitting them up I I just need to test uh yeah yeah I've seen where they you know the the engineering lab in in Vancouver at the office is you know they can take you it's all kind of like you know behind closed doors. Oh yeah yeah but I'm not asking for disclosure well they actually have the guy uh from Jonathan um Tom from Flow Mountain Bike was there recently and there's a big article on Flow um where they went they got to go behind the scenes um as media and you know see some of these machines they've got some crazy like machines that scan stuff and obviously they've got a lot of 3D printing things and they can quickly yeah prototype prototype I think exactly so they've got the downhill team they've got you know a hot dedicated team of like a half a dozen engineers that working on these things and yeah some of the stuff they do is amazing but um yeah it's cool just to go and see it and go like this is just yeah it's it's a brand like that that's invested in it and they're not just kind of going to a catalogue in a factory in in Asia and going, oh I want that bike it's you know they well you know later on there'll be in the future there'll be a downhill bike obviously that that you can buy if you want to make a comeback and a comeback from never was yeah race uh race local downhill on a bike Slocal did you say slow exactly that's that's been designed by one of these engineers using this technology that then filters that down to like a privateer bike so it's pretty cool that it starts out you know at just a a drawing I guess and then and then some some parts and then that doesn't work so then let's try something else and then the race team obviously tries it Gracie Hemp Street wins a World Cup on it or something and then it's proven and then eventually it'll make its way to production so yeah it's pretty cool that it it goes through all that sort of evolution.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Are you do you think that's something in your career that you would aspire to to move from sort of um your role uh to into like into the head company or to to work in that because I mean we talked about like first thing you do when you get a bike is like well I'm gonna I'm gonna modify it I'm gonna change it I'm gonna change the parts to customize it to what I want.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah yeah I think um yeah the product side of it has always appealed to me more like I like the the the the detail and um yeah I'd love to be able to spec you know spec bikes and work with that and I and got some good relationship with some of the product managers who've at Norco and they've some of them have been there you know 20 30 years and they started in like a you know warranty or customer service and they've they've worked their way up through the through the company and just kind of learnt how things work and now and then for years they've been in the ones kind of specking the bikes and they and they test ride them on the local trail so there's a real kind of hands-on approach which I I really like so yeah maybe in the next couple of years um so what's uh hypothetically they'll they come to you and they say we want an Australian bike and you're thinking what's the perfect southeast Queensland bike you know what we we can talk models but I mean like is how much travel what what size wheels what are you thinking for a good Southeast Queensland bike at the moment I think it already exists like the revolver that launched um the knocker revolver that launched just late last year is for me it's like the perfect kind of Southeast Queensland bike because it's and I mean I've been riding it lately and it's um it's just it's not a huge long travel bike but it's super capable and the geometry is super dialed so you can ride it on steep technical trails because it's got the geometry that you're still going to be comfortable you know navigating down but it's not heavy so it's great for these the trails that are a bit kind of bit more mallow a bit flatter you can it's very paddle efficient as well and the way the suspension's designed like the the revolver I have it's only 120m of travel which is you know years ago that was quite a lot but it's by today's standard it's not a not a long travel bike but with a 130 fork on the front some really good geometry and and the way that the suspension works it feels like a lot more travel than it is um so it just yeah creates this super capable ride but at the same time it's maybe I don't know 12 13 kilos so it's a good weight for climbing still and you can really get on the on the pedals and you know it's it's quite efficient. It's not yeah so for me that's probably for the places like Daisy Hill, Gap Creek Bunya um you know even up Sunshine Coast anywhere that's like a more of a trail center like that it's the perfect bike like it's obviously not going to be as good for the the really rough rocky steep stuff it'll still get you down but but I think those trails are kind of more the they're a bit more niche I think the majority of our trails that that kind of bike is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

So I would call that I mean we it's been coined down country yeah my favorite is XC whoa um but uh so we're talking sort of below a trail bike above a cross country what old cross country bike so sort of 130 ish 120ish mid mid travel it's not I I call trail bike sort of 140 to 160 maybe trail and beyond that you're starting to get into heavy bikes.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah yeah and I think like the but the parts that make it like obviously a long a long drop set a drop of seat post with a long drop is is essential because that way you can ride these steep technical trails because you can drop the post I think my bike's got a 170m drop post which is you know pretty big for an XC bike and and the tires like you mentioned before like I've got 2.4 kind of trail tires on it so that helps and then it's running a shorter stem than it's typical for that kind of bike. I mean it's I think I've got a 50 or 60 mil stem maybe 50 and that and a and a 30mm rise you know high rise quite wide bar so it's it's running the cockpit and the the the tyres that we used to run on 150 bikes a few years ago so it's but it's shorter travel so that kind of makes it really capable but at the same time it's still really light and efficient. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

I I definitely saw a transition to longer slack a lower um through the uh developed through enduro bikes and that I think the geometry now in cross country bikes is so similar but like they've just shortened the travel and the weights sort of still in that XC range. Yeah I definitely find that's that's that's a sweet spot for those those ones that you those sort of trial singers that you're looking at. I think the other interesting things I think you've got a a gravel into the gravel bit now as well. Is that just because you're getting old?

SPEAKER_00 53:55

I mean I've I kind of I've been interested in that sort of adventure gravel riding for years. Like I had a NOCO search gravel bike back in maybe 2017 the first time so it's not sort of a new thing but I kind of come and go from it. And then there's they've kind of launched a new a new gravel bike which I've decided to try and help me sort of get back into it. And plus with the injury I thought you know it'd be good to do some longer sort of slower like rail trail rides where I can because I'm still doing physio and still kind of rehabbing the the legs still getting a bit more sort of strength so I think having a bike like that I can go on these longer rides and also just a use for commuting like I'm I'm on the bike kind of every every day if I can be like I'll I'll ride to work and instead of riding a road bike or a or a typical commuter bike I'd prefer to ride like a gravel bike just because it's you know I can dart off into find some local gravel on the way home um you know get a bit of bit of adventure on the on the way to from work so whereabouts is your work you still around that bowen hills area or something yeah it's in Newstead so it's like just down from Fortitude Valley so from Holland Park you'd would you take the um get over near the M1 and on the on the bikeway? Yeah you can kind of go across towards sort of Tui Forest and there's a few bike um piles in there and then you get onto the V1 and the V one's kind of straight into the to the city basically you you're at South Bank Story Bridge before you know it and then just duck down through through the valley and you're there so it's about 15 kilometre commute about you know 30 35 minutes so yeah so so the cliche is gravel bikes are just mountain bikes from the 90s with drop bars. Yeah do you pretty much yeah so what when does gravel finish and it become mountain biking for you I mean have you got a dropper post on your gravel bike and 2.5 tires no it's pretty standard at the moment like we we Noca have done a bike in the past with a dropper post um but I've never I haven't tried it on a on a gravel bike like um it's I the tyres are getting bigger like the I think mine are 40 45s and obviously some people running 50s which is like almost like a 2 or 2.1 20 you know mountain bike tire so they are getting closer to that you know it's kind of it's almost like you could ride a 29er hardtail fully rigid in instead um it's obviously yeah it's basically like that bike just with drop bars right so yeah we spoke a lot um last episode with uh cam Taylor about gravel and and where gravel starts and stops and what gravel means to him um but I mean this sounds more like you're you're looking for adventure rather than than the cliche cliched gravel yeah yeah I think it's just kind of I like to ride you know multiple disciplines and I'm I'm happy on my bike and if it's uh you know if I want to go for a long ride that involves a bit of tarmac to get to some some trails then maybe I can ride the gravel bike because I'm on the bike the whole time rather than driving on the mountain bike and then you know so that's kind of that or I've got some mates it I think it comes down a lot who you ride with like I've got some mates who don't mountain bike but they have a gravel bike and they enjoy the rail trails so I can go out with them and do that kind of ride and then um then then obviously I've got mates who don't ride gravel at all so I'll take the mountain bike and go with them and then I've got you know e-bike mates as well so which is a different story. There's there's all these different disciplines which funny and and you've got you know people who who you can get out there with so yeah so what's your n in the n plus one equation how many how many bites have you got yeah well I don't have a a dirt jumper at the moment so that could be the next one the little are you allowed a dirt jumper? I don't know it could be could be very skipping you know how they have that sign you must be so tall to enter the ride I think it's got a sign that says you must be so you know so young to still own a I think um yeah maybe my back's not up for that the little 26 inch wheel bike but there is a little jump park down the road from me that the council put in and I ride through there on my e-bike on the way home from rides and see all the groms on their little dirt jumpers and I I try and do the jumps on my e-bike so and I'm still kind of dirt jumping but it's dirt jumping on the e-bike so I've got a 26 inch chromoly D trail star hanging up at the shed it's it's so small I I I I it holds a place in my heart I should probably sell it I've got too many but like I get on and it's like how did we ever ride these tiny little bikes?

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah they're just so short now. It's just unbelievable. Yeah it's crazy. And so I mean that you've we've had uh parallel experiences with watching the scene change over the time that we've been mountain biking. Um what do you think the the biggest change is or the thing that you've been most you most enjoy about the change that you've seen over the time you've been mountain biking?

SPEAKER_00 58:45

That's a good question. I think um it might be a bit controversial but the the advent of e-bikes and the the way that they've maybe made mountain biking a bit more accessible for some some other people who maybe because of injuries or well they've just you know they don't have the time to to sort of do the be involved in the sport anymore but an e-bike kind of allows them to still to still do it even my own experience like I was able to get back mountain biking a lot quicker and earlier because I had the e-bike like I wasn't I wouldn't have been able to ride a normal bike a normal mountain bike after six weeks but I could ride my e-bike because of the pedal assist so I could still get out to the trails and you know when I was going down you know I felt like I was I was sort of strong enough but it was you know the uphills when you got no leg strength but yeah you can you ride this e-bike and so I think that and the way they've improved and obviously you know I wasn't a super early adopter but um now an e-bike you know my current e-bike it it handles and feels very similar to a a pedal bike like it's a it's a Norco site it's not that much heavier than the regular Norco site bike the geometry's the same so it it doesn't feel that much different and you still get the same sort of ride experience on the descents but you've just got that um yeah that that bit to get you going there's still people on the fence like you know can't see Oppie there yet and my brother's still not on the e-bike thing but I have I have unkindly unkindly called e-bikes mobility aids before well people need mobility aids right but but but you know I don't want hate mail in this show op you know it's but when you think about it it's like it's something that aids people mo people's mobility mountain biking is hard like yeah and it it it's it is a barrier of entry and it's opening up the activity to more and more people so I I do get it I'm not I I've uh I have a more moderate stance on them they're not for me yet I I think if I were to get an an e-bike I would actually instead of going for the the one that feels like a bike I'd be the other end I'd be like so I live in in in an area that backs onto mountains out the back of Nebo Matt Gloria I'd be some wanting something that I can actually go and do um a ride in the mountains uh I there's no recovery rides out my way and there's no easy rides but I would want it I'd want the other end of I'd want the real heavy big battery box so I can go and do a uh an easy ride in the big hills so to be yeah or get right a uh self-shuttle enduro downhill style things so I'd be the other end of the spectrum if if that's the biggest gap I'd see because but for me for the uh the the lightweight ones I'm like yeah just just get rubber bike yeah but I I agree like the yeah the big powerful ones are amazing for getting out on these these backcountry climbs that you would just never normally be accessible for pretty much anyone unless you're like a a pro um a eight leafman and you can do it and you've got the battery that lasts you know for a 40 50k ride and you can do 2,000 meters of climbing and and you can see this incredible scenery and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

So that sort of access is I think I did see some guys at the back of Nebo on on e-bikes and I was like like I was an old uh older guy older than me and he's riding with son and they're like newbies but they were like 50k's deep yeah and they were about to head down into Lake Manchester and they're like oh yeah we're gonna go down there and then we're gonna go back up through Creek Road that come from Cap Creek and I was like oh god I hope you're managing your battery because you're gonna be stuck yeah you're gonna be in a world of hurt if that suddenly goes flat yeah but um I I so I've done some like to do one of those 2000 meter rides in Jaguar Range National Park it's it's like you're talking well for me four to six hours but it's a it's a two hour e-bike ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah if you've only got two hours then yeah so I get it but I'm like I I I I just get sad when I see a child on an e-bike just I'm like I'm like what you know like or or a kid that used to have a a run bike and they've got an e-bike an electric and I'm like really do we do we need to do that maybe you could probably send some letters here I'll just grab something it might be hang on where's where's your um you can send a letter to someone here you go I'll let you dear Santa that's it I love this where did this come from where's my grandma's where's the sound effect I want ding sound you know when you get to the end of the yeah yeah okay I gotcha here we go I can't even this you know this is oh I've jammed the keys oh there's no paper in it that doesn't help just it's lovely yeah yeah it works I bought a new ribbon for it oh we're going off script here sorry what's that right oh that's okay to there and then you type type type yeah wonderful ding all right turn the page we'll say maybe you need to get with the times yeah um uh yeah it's a this is a lovely piece of retro technology um and and it's interesting to to like uh I love a bit of retro futurism what they thought the future was going to be when this was made um you know when we look into the future now we're talking about 32s and e-bikes and uh I think well where will we be in in 10 years time so I've I what do you see the the average mountain bike what's the everyday mountain bike that the average rider will be riding in in 10 years' time what do you think that would look like I think it'll definitely be an e-bike just because of the way that the last you know five ten years have gone they've gradually yeah gotten so much better lighter more affordable better better battery you know better um much smoother more efficient uh and the adoption rates are huge like a lot of there's shops now that pretty much entirely sell e EMTBs uh even the way because obviously part of my role is planning and ordering and looking at you know future models and it's the range of um analog pedal whatever you want to call it bikes are it's dwindling right there's they used to be a really broad range there's there's a lot of companies now who are you know even next year they're only gonna offer a couple of couple of options in in a paddle mountain bike it's it's all going to be E. Already some brands are 100% E. So I think um yeah it's gonna be the majority of people maybe not yourself but me and my penny farthing we'll be we're gonna be keeping it real kicking it old school are going to be on on e bikes in ten years time because they probably will be the same weight and very similar to a a current bike if they if they uh so there's no real reason apart from you know if you don't want that kind of technology single speed. Yeah yeah there'll be niches But I think the majority of mountain bikers will will have one because they're going to be th that that good. There's no reason not to. They're not going to be any heavier. And and there's going to be so much variety, right? That there is going to be the the big long travel four-powered ones and there's going to be the super lightweight kind of cross-country ones. And um there'll still be niches. Obviously, there's still going to be purists, and there's still going to be cross-country racing and downhill racing. And um, yeah, they're probably the two ends. I think at most there'll be yeah, the DH bike, which is very different, and the the pure cross-country race bike, but I think the majority of people in the middle, which are the majority, will be on a on an e-bike, just riding their local trails, right? So gearbox? Uh I think so. I mean it's still Ten years. Yeah, I'd like to think so because I'm still like I still have problems with derailers, right? Like Yeah, exactly. But I mean I, you know, uh I've got great there's great technology in deraillers. Like I've got a wireless um, you know, rearailler, but I still smashed it into a rock and then you know now it's not working as well as it was. So I think removing that object that's sticking out when you're riding, you know, technical trails fast is could be really advantageous. So we're starting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

We're starting to see um integration of the motor unit, gears into the motor unit of an of an e-bike.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Um so I think it's definitely on the horizon and yeah, it makes sense. I think that uh yeah, we've we've talked a few times about where where this is going. So when when someone uh you know dusts this off on their neural link in ten years' time and they and they replay it, they'll be like, damn it, those boys were under something. Actually, and we did actually talk about will we actually be riding or we'll just be watching virtual VR goggles with that uh on the stationery. You can't run into any obstacles then, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Yeah, yeah. It's probably safer.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Safety first.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

I'd still have to have a crack at it if it plays up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

I don't know. I don't know if you well, you just turn it off and turn it back on again. You tell you to fix your mountain bike.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

So yeah. Don't know if you get the immersion in nature that comes with mountain biking though, if you if we go that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

Well, you there'll be it'll be a sensory like if you well, if we go to New World Lake, I think that's more than 10 years away, but maybe they can just be like a like a water spray and like a uh I can smell it, it's a 10D experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Um my my possibly final topic or thing I'd just want to ask you about is uh one of the events that I've got the most photos of you is some of those SEQ Enduro series. Um that sort of event and any others um that you've been involved in, uh what are your what are your favourite events to go to? What makes them unique? What makes a good event and are events at the level they are now or the community they are now that they were when you started riding events? A few questions there.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

Yeah, yeah. I think I mean it's a hard one to answer because I'm not as involved in events as I was um maybe back then. So I was really there was a time when I was running for the riders and we had a race team and we were going to events kind of almost every every second weekend, and that was at the height of that sort of SEQ in Juro where there was a big a big scene. Like you go to a race and you know you were there uh taking photos and there was three, four hundred competitors, right? And you kind of knew a lot of them because you were you know practicing the weekend before and just oh your your mates, so it was a big sort of community. I think maybe that's we've lost a bit of that, but there is you know, I still go to the odd Rocky Trail event now, and then they still get mass participation and it's still that Enduro kind of format, but I think it's not quite the same as it was back in that. I think because it was new and it was different, and we all kind of, you know, there was a lot of people from maybe you'd race downhill and like that kind of gravity side of and then people from cross country or whatever, everyone kind of came together for this new kind of format, and it was just you know, we you do the liaison stage with your mates having a chat, and then you'd you had multiple stages, so you had like five, six different tracks with different technical features, and it was just a good kind of day out, and I definitely kind of missed that, but at the same time it's it was a different stage in my life before kind of kids and stuff, so I don't really have the wouldn't have the time now to dedicate that. So it's yeah, things have things have changed and maybe yeah, but I think um there's there's still so many great events and I still love going to events and with the the role like I we sponsor and support events and this um I love just getting out there seeing people racing and having a good time. So um whether that's a cross-country event, downhill event, um yeah, it doesn't matter. We're we're looking at this year going to like a gravel event out at um Tantafield and then maybe we'll go to the Baby Blast, and you know, there's and then maybe um you know, and then people were down at Hardline and you know the opposite end of things. So there's there's so many events, and I, you know, I'm happy at all of them, whether it's a gravel event or a downhill cross country marathon race. Um but yeah, it does those kind of were the glory days, I think, that you know, that Enduro scene, like um 10 where I see all these photos and stuff. But you know, like 10-15 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

So yeah, it definitely was a scene, and we were we were involved for four or five years, I think, of consistent with EMS doing the r running the events to their standard that they were known for.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

Um, and so I guess everything was kind of consistent over that period of time, and then it went through some patches of changing pro providers from the event and timing team, and and we sort of lost touch with doing the events or you know, th those sort of style of events with multiple trails are very difficult to cover with limited photographers, so we kind of in some way maybe outgrew or changed our approach to events too.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:04

So um your photos were a big part of that event too. Like I rem those events I remember like you'd see the results on the day, but then then the Monday morning was what you'd been hanging out for, like and we'd all get online and you know we'd been like, as Element, are the are the photos up yet? You'd probably been up all night like damn straight getting them up, and then you'd be like, you'd search for your name and you say, Oh, that's a really cool photo, and then you'd you go there's a you text your mates and there's a whole group chat. Oh, did you get a good photo from Element? Yeah, I got a pretty good one. Or no, I'm my I don't know, I was gonna funny face or whatever, or yeah, you know, I was walking my bike or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

So yeah, it was a big and then you We were invested as just as much as we wanted everyone to have a good good photo. Yeah, and we got our workflow of like down to an art of getting the photos done and and tagged and out pretty quick. So absolutely it's a great time for us. Yeah, for sure. So big um, I think Ian was a big part of the the scene, and from memory I think it it all started with with him and a race at Garapine.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Yeah, Garapine was good because it was the pla you know it you couldn't really go there uh privately, like it was private land, and so but he they'd hold a lot of races there, you know, two, three rounds a year sometimes. So you'd go there and you could ride this really cool venue with you know just fun. They weren't like the biggest hill around, but they were just really fun trails. And and a lot of the other venues they used, you might not typically go there like they were a fair way away, like Toowoomba or Mount Joyce or whatever, but you'd make the because there was a race on and you knew there were going to be multiple stages with your mates, you'd make the effort to go there. And that's sort of something I missed now because I don't you know I haven't been to Tawomba for a couple of years or Mount Joyce for two or three years, but I used to go there like you know three or four times a year because there was a race on, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

So good times. There was uh I think uh my memory of that that era was that it did really bring in the downhill and the cross country. So it because it had two pools to pull from, but these days, you know, you talk about niches and and and uh and you know there's a the group there's there's uh people that see themselves as enduro riders, and I think sometimes they potentially don't they aren't cross-country riders as well, or you know, people aren't multidisciplinary, they can't pick a discipline. So I I got that vibe that there's less crossover between the groups than when we it sort of brought everyone together. Um but I uh but on the other side there's another niche now with with gravel. So I think you know, if you were to add up the people that are downhilling, enduro riding, cross country ri riding, and gravel riding, I think um the scene itself is bigger, but maybe more fragmented than it than it used to be. And the other thing too is racing, uh there's a lot more participation than there is uh racing. So you know that enduro is really a race discipline, so they don't you know people don't if they're not racing, they're not enduro riders, they're just mountain bikers, so they don't self-identify, so there's not that same peak that it that it was. You know, the industry goes through cycles. We've talked about the rise and fall of 24-hour races, and I think you know enduro is just part of the spectrum now, and you know, gravel's on the rise, and who knows what it'll be. Well, it'll be uphill e-bike racing. Um that's uh in the philosophy. Uh it's fun, yeah. Yeah, tech do you remember Tech Up? Yeah was uh there was a very brief uh push. I think Glenn Jacobs was one of the major people behind it of having that technical uphill race as a as a format. Um anyway. I thought you were just joking.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

It sounds like trials, you know, moto trials type event.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Depending on the terrain, that'd be sick. Yeah, so it was it was a more technical uh discipline, you had to be fit and technical. But I mean, we used to have uphill and downhill and cross country and observe trials.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

Remember Mount Perry you would do all four out of a crack and the slalom.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:04

I mean, Slalem was a thing before it was Four Cross and Jewel and whatnot. Yeah, they were we had we had a slalom track in the backyard at your parents' play, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

Yeah, yeah. Yep. A few backyard races.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

So yeah. Oh man, there was some yeah, some blown out, blown out corners and people ending up hospitalizations.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:23

I think Andy got a handlebar to the stomach and pat it up in the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

So oh, he caught himself like an apple because he didn't have an end cap in his butt. Oh I've forgotten about that. Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

And Dan's been ambulanced out of the backyard as well, one of the dirt jumps.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

Uh yeah, so yeah, many, many, uh, many uh stories that we could we could relate.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

But I think we're um running running out of time. I freak out when I see someone with a handle like a handlebar with no end cap. Oh, yeah. Even the kids out the front were riding around with them, and then someone stacked just off our driveway, coming off the edge of the driveway and got their leg caught in a front um in the you know the wheel between the frame or something weird. Choice. I'm like looking at the handlebar going, at least you didn't get that through you. But yeah. Um well it's been super fun having in for a chat. I'd appreciate you coming and sharing your knowledge. I'm looking forward particularly to the Norco Wolfik with the built-in beating stick. I think might be the the next in the range.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Um put it inside the head tube or something. Like instead of those tools that you take up, you get a little stick.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

Yep, the bigger the better hider. Three models, three different lengths. Well, maybe it could be a tool. The fix it stick. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're on the phone. If all out fails, you just beat it with a stick. Yeah, if you can't use any of the tools, just hit it. Yeah, yeah. Tap to reset because it's all electronic.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:46

Yeah. Appreciate you coming. I'll come grab the milk out of the car that you brought for us in exchange.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Whatever you want, chocolate. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

Yeah. Yeah, well, it's been really great to reminisce and talk about stories that I'd forgotten about. So thanks for coming on and um been great. Our industry insider, I think, friend of the show, industry insider, Luke Wolfing. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Cheers, guys. Thanks for having me.