Mountain Biking in South East Queensland
Join us as Hubcap, Oppy and Lachie chat all things mountain biking in South East Queensland.
Mountain Biking in South East Queensland
Mountain Biking in SEQ Episode 12 (with special guests Jo Parker and Bob Morris)
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Welcome to Episode 12 of the Mountain Biking in South East Queensland Podcast - today we've got Oppy, Lachie and special guests Jo Parker and Bob Morris from Rocky Trail Entertainment.
We explore a range of topics around mountain biking events including racing, venues, riding destinations, timing and tech in sport.
You'll hear an insightful perspective from a well-oiled events team who carry deep knowledge, understanding and experience of the events space, as well as the communities and stakeholders that make riding and racing a successful, enjoyable experience for all.
Leave your comments and questions below, we'd love to hear from you!
And of course you can reach out with your questions to be featured on the next podcast - send us a video or audio with your question to team@elementphotovideo.com.au.
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Alright, we're back in the studio and we have a full house tonight. Uh first I'm gonna have a quick chat with Oppie, because it's been a little while since we've chatted and uh I'm keen to see how how you're doing. What's your next event coming up?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, welcome back, mate. It's I'm trying to remember how long it's been. Was it before I went down to Victoria for the Nationals?
SPEAKER_02I cannot remember. I know there's also a delay in when we put the episodes up, so forgive me for that, everyone. Things tend to get a little bit busy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think so. So I um uh went down to Victoria Race the Nationals, had a stop in at uh at Bright on the way down, uh, was supposed to be the um uh Mystic Yak, but that unfortunately fell by the wayside. So I went down and did uh Bright Gravel, which was a fantastic event with lots lots and lots of climbing in the back roads there, and uh got to spend a few days in the Mystic Bike Park and then went over to Mount Buller and um had my arse handed to me in the master's class at the National Titles. Apparently, elevation doesn't agree with me, but um yeah, fantastic trip, and uh it's so good seeing like to drive down and to drive back, you see, a huge part of the country from you know Victoria all the way up through western New South Wales back into Queensland. So that was the big adventure. But I think we've also had Brisbane Row Bay since we last spoke, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a few other random things, you know. There's been other events around. We're gonna talk a little bit about events tonight, I think, just a little because we can introduce our kids in a second. Um, can I let's let's introduce them so they could be part of the conversation. Um I want to say hi to Joe and Bob. Uh welcome. I want to let you introduce where you're from and how you guys know each other and uh give us a little quick snippet of who you are in the mountain bike world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'm Joe Parker, uh Rocky Trail, uh head of events and uh across our portfolio, 35 odd events a year, uh across up and down the east coast, uh, and do some other contract work. So sports specialist, loving it in mountain biking.
SPEAKER_0235 events is a year. Nice. That's good. I think I've I've I had a year where I was shooting events, mountain biking, I was around biking events, 26 events, I think. So that's I can't imagine how busy you are.
SPEAKER_00We are definitely uh rolling every day doing events for yeah, probably between February and November.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. Um, and I met Jo at Mountain Bike Australia um 2015. Um, she came in and uh was a finance manager. I was there as a technical delegate looking after the events for Mountain Bike Australia. Um we ran a little event called World Cup in Cannes together. Um she might did most of the work, I took most of the credit, and uh it's been like that ever since. We uh we then worked together at Rocky Trail from 2020 onwards, and uh she does most of the work, I take most of the credit. So and and you are Bob? I am Bob Morris.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Which World Cup 2016 was 2016, yeah. Uh-huh. So you meant 2015, yeah. Nice. Um, so both of you, as far as mountain biking goes, where did you get into I want to hear where you got into mountain biking from, whether that was always part of your growing up or whether it's a come later in the career side of things?
SPEAKER_00It was a totally new world for me. I joined Mountain Bike Australia as a finance manager and didn't know what a bike looked like really. Um, so and I can't believe I'm now sitting here and own three bikes and absolutely love it, and say to every female woman, just have a go, there's a trail for us all. Um I just yeah, it's an amazing uh addition to my life.
SPEAKER_03Um did you ride a bike as a kid?
SPEAKER_00I rode a bike as a kid.
SPEAKER_03And then a big break.
SPEAKER_00Had a big break. I was a basketballer. If any any spare time I was at the basketball court, um and that I had yeah, my kids both did rep basketball, both went to America for college basketball. I was on the board of Gold Coast basketball. My life was basketball until I walked into mountain biking and and fell in love with what I watched and doing these these events and just seeing everyone on a bike and went, oh, I love it. And the community is amazing. So um here I am still well and truly deep in it, and uh it doesn't feel like work, that is for sure.
SPEAKER_03Do you still shoot a few hoops?
SPEAKER_00I don't now.
SPEAKER_03It's very it's it's like this high instead instead of that low.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I just uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03So no more network.
SPEAKER_02I can relate to that story of uh like you're around something that you just can't help but get involved and and fall in love with, and that was me with mountain biking, um, shooting events before I really knew what a mountain bike was. I knew what fire roads were through Whites Hill to get to the sports fields where I grew up next to Whites Hill, but I didn't know that there were, and we shouldn't talk too much about Whiteshill, but I didn't know there were the little single tracks that came off the main roads until later on once I realised what these races and things were, it was pretty cool. But yourself biker.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, so I uh I was a very bad student. I went to university for the briefest of minutes, and uh when I basically decided I'd do uh follow a different path, I went uh went basically to the snowy mountains to go skiing, and that was in 90 uh in 89, was my first year down there. Around the mountain community, there was a lot of mountain bikes, um a lot of people who would do winters in America and then on their way home stop on the west coast of America. So there was um a mountain bike community starting to build up down there. Um, I was down there, I I went down there with the idea that I'd go travel the world following winters, and I fell in love with summers down there. We were doing a lot of um late season skiing where you'd hike up to the backcountry and ski on the spring snow, and then the snow melted, and I loved the hiking part of it, and then I looked at a map one day and realised how small the area I actually covered. And a mate of mine said, Well, borrow my bike, go for a ride, and you cover a whole lot more territory. So I bought a bike in uh 91 Scott Wynn River in in 1991 and put panniers on it and went basically early doors bikepacking just to see the most amazing country in the world, the snow Australian Snow Mountain. So yeah, fell in love with it, then found events, then yeah, it was snowballed from there.
SPEAKER_03Snowballed what would have been an early event that you would have gone to in that era?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think it was the 92 Nationals came to Threadbow. The downhill was uh the first chairlift um downhill in Australia, and uh uh he uh he became my friend Colin Battersby, um, who was running um who was uh had been employed by um uh a I think it was a triathlon company, somebody to run sporting events. He ended up in Threadbow to run this event just out of the blue. He also fell in love with the place and stayed for a couple of decades um and took mountain biking to Threadbow with opening the lift, getting people to pay lift tickets, bring turning on the green season, as we call it. Um yeah, so I yeah, I was a volunteer marshal at the first time. They, you know, that look at me and go, Oh, you own a bike, you must know how this mountain biking works. Come and run it, help me run an event. And I uh gave them a hand over the years, and um in '94, I was near the bottom of the hill when the timer said, I need another person who's got good eyesight to help call the timing. Um that's Caztec Sports Timing was was basically born there, and I timed mountain bike races. We got the contract to do the national series, we yeah, so it was a snowball from snowballing. Yeah, it was um and it and it got me to the Sydney Olympics and it got me to yeah, running my own event company, my own um timing company for a period, then I worked for Mountain Bike Australia, and then I worked for Rocky Trail, and I met Joe, and uh we now are going gangbusters all around the country. It's good. Love it.
SPEAKER_03So were you on the start line at the Olympics?
SPEAKER_01I was in the results room at the Olympics. Um I thought you might have been there with us. I was on the start line for actually the I was on the start line for the road race um because yeah, that was um yeah, it was it was a good time. The Olympics I learned a lot. I got involved with all three cycling disciplines. So I was in the top of the velodrome when Scott McGory and Brett Akins won a gold medal in the Madison, and I was yeah, I saw Did you get one of those fantastic volunteer shirts? It was the only thing I missed out on. I got a IBM, IBM employed. Um, yeah, so I was working for IBM as part of the sports um results services, so um, yeah, it was good fun.
SPEAKER_03So uh a long history in mountain long history, uh but uh behind the scenes, or did you do a bit of racing as well?
SPEAKER_01I uh I I'll say I've never raced. I have raced, but I've never really raced. Um I don't do very much of it, and uh you wouldn't anymore, you're too busy running the events, yeah. And I um I was running events right back from then, so I was doing the timing and and I wasn't a competitor, I was always in the background um doing uh yeah, so it's it's mostly been I've always owned a bike. Like I said, I bought one to go bike backing. Um and I've always ridden and I love riding. That's that's definitely a given. Um I wish I could was better at it.
SPEAKER_00I'm not too bad, but I'm uh yeah, I'm you can read a track and identify a good racetrack and put things together. I reckon you're probably the most yeah specialised one in uh in Australia, yeah. Across all disciplines. You ha do watch a lot of cycling as well.
SPEAKER_01I do. And and yeah, and and I love I do love uh all all branches of cycling, all different disciplines of cycling. Um, and I I I love finding good racetracks. Not necessarily good in mountain bike tracks, good race racing tracks, which is those things are diverged.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we'll get into some of that, what the difference between the two is. So what we've heard uh Scott Windrock. Scott Windriver. Um Wind River.
SPEAKER_01Wind River. That's a good name. Yeah, great name. White with uh um 1980s fluoro check graphic on it, is special, special bike. Got stolen unfortunately, but that's every bike's got to have the history. Every better that than getting rusted away. Um, yeah, awesome bike.
SPEAKER_02What about you, Joe? Sorry to cut in. What about you? What was your first bike or how was your first like experience of first getting into riding?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I have limited knowledge on my bike. I ride a bike, but I can tell you I had a trek. I can't tell you what model or what style it was, other than it didn't have a dropper seat. And now to anyone, my second bike had a dropper seat, and oh my god, that changed my life. So if you're ever thinking about buying your bike or your partner a bike, make sure it's got a dropper seat.
SPEAKER_02Should we send that to Hubcap? Staunch anti-dropper. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So uh then I went to a Norco and a dual suspension, and uh I'm now on a gas gas e-bike and love it. Yeah, and it's carbon, it's only 18 kilos. And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Small world, my neighbour, straight over there, uh, works at motorcycles or us. Oh, yeah. And he's got the gas gas here, and I've played on it and borrowed it. Great fun. Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_00We do miss the gas gas boys. Um, unfortunately, it didn't stay.
SPEAKER_02Fair enough. Yep. Uh so you have a gas gas, eh?
SPEAKER_00I have a gas gas.
SPEAKER_02And what what are your favourite uh trail networks? Let's let's go favourite Brisbane or surrounds trail network to get out to.
SPEAKER_00We're spoiled because we're going up and down the east coast, and unfortunately, southeast Queensland's not my uh favourite area of riding.
SPEAKER_03Fair answer. Well, you can have it out, you can add it, you can add it somewhere. What's your favourite local?
SPEAKER_01One of our favourites is Falls Creek. It's um that's a fantastic network down there. It's um it's got that alpine loam, which I'm sure you'd know from being in Mount Buller recently. It's um it's got a really good network and it's pretty um pretty friendly. Um they've now got a new downhill track, which I can't wait to go back and have a look at, but uh most of their trails are nice flow, um flow town and what's the other the downtown flow or whatever the whatever their names are. They're um they're uh really, really uh accessible, really good fun. Um with uh Mount Taylor in near Bansdale has got an amazing network. Um it's got three good gravity tracks, but it's got an amazing cross-country loop that seems to go through five different environments with grass trees and into into the eucalyptus forest, open open forest, and then back down into a little bit more denser foliage, and it's it yeah, it on an 8k loop, it blows your mind that you there's so much in it.
SPEAKER_00Um and of course, we um mogo is the home of Rocky Trail and uh 125k's, and uh it's one of the favourites. There's uh a trial for us all there. Um, so we uh we're totally spoiled. We could tell you that many venues that we've ridden. Um uh it's hard to pick just a favourite, to be honest.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, maybe we'll go through all the SEQ ones and we'll see. What do we do?
SPEAKER_01I'm a big I'm a big fan of Jubilee at Toomba. That's that's really good. Um it's got some, you know, it's certainly a hard place to ride sometimes. Um anytime it's wet, it's almost impossible. Um but yeah, that's good. And uh Tawanton will we've we've always enjoyed Tawanton.
SPEAKER_00Um I I'm an adventure loop person, so I like to be able to stay on my bike. Um so something that I can do a 20k loop and so Daisy definitely can tick that box for me. Um I don't mind Bayview either.
SPEAKER_01Um so uh and you've always been a fan of Scribbly Gum just around the corner.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh the home network.
SPEAKER_00Unfortunately, Nering's not one of my favourite ones.
SPEAKER_01And I don't think you're a fan of Castle Hill either.
SPEAKER_00Oh, definitely not Castle Hill.
SPEAKER_03That's that's where I grew up riding Castle Hill. Yeah. I like to say if you can ride Castle, you can ride anywhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So there's two out of four I can do. I'm not uh off-cam, but doesn't yeah, off-cam to loose doesn't suit me.
SPEAKER_03So would I be right in saying it's more about the uh context the trail sits in rather than the content of the trail? Yeah, totally. Yeah, so I find that with the you know with the downhills, it's all about what's on the trail. That it they could be riding anywhere. That's right.
SPEAKER_00No, I stop and take a lot of photos and oh wow, look at this. Oh yeah, I love going through the different landscape.
SPEAKER_02The thing I'm jealous of is shooting here in a lot of race venues, um, talking about downhill, it can be as technical as anything. There's no views, there's no great views that we get here. So I look at New Zealand races and I look at down south races and I go, oh, come on.
SPEAKER_01You you would love we we've just come back from an event in uh Dannyong Ranges, it's the Sylvan um area, Sylvan mountain bike trails, and uh the Victorian mountain ash with the grass ferns, the the tree ferns underneath it, it's amazing, and the colours that come out of there, you cannot you a bad photographer will look good there, and you will make it look amazing. Yeah. That's not us riding up there.
SPEAKER_00That's just two riders just going up straight into the forest. Yeah. Um just that yeah, and like two weeks ago we're in Cairns Smithfield, and just yeah, not that I was on a bike, but um walking through that rainforest and where the trail network is, it's just like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I mean, with having sampled so many, you know, what is it that makes a really good mountain bike venue? And what how do you see our Southeast Queensland venues stacking up? You know, where what are the strengths, weaknesses? Because you've got it, you've got a good cross section.
SPEAKER_01I guess the the difference between a good venue and a good mountain bike park that's there, that's a good venue is you know, convenient parking and a good adequate toilet block and and good racetracks. There's a good mountain bike park is great trails and that adventure and the view and the you know, which you you guys I know love the Hidden Vale, um epic. Uh the view from the top of 500 above, 500 below. 500 above. That's you know, one of the most special places in in the area, and certainly the most special place you can go to on a bike.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, it's but it has to connect with all the facilities and things like that. So we we have a different skill set. So um when we're looking at a venue, I'll look at a totally different aspect to Bob will concentrate on the the trail network and if that will work for our type of racing or what he can develop there, or I might find a venue and go, I really want to do it here because of this, this. Can you yeah work out what format we can race?
SPEAKER_03So I I guess I was I was where I was going with talking about the locations we have here is because they are primarily uh places for people to recreate. And you know, uh majority in the southeast corner are on conservation land, and that's a very different set of uh constraints compared to what you would have as an event venue. And uh I think that's you know, people have said to you and to me, it's like, oh why can't we have an event in Ironbark or Gap Creek or you know, and it's like well when you actually see what an event needs, those things don't have like you say, a car park, a toilet block. Uh you know, so you know, what is it that a good that makes a good venue then? What it what are the all the things that it needs to tick off, you know, that um people wouldn't generally see because you know people don't think about parking ever, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02And that's one of the key We just had this conversation before sugar bag as far as events.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. The redevelopment there of sugar bag was is great for the daily user, recreational user, but now the uh there's no parking they've got 30 car parks, so to run an event there, you've got to find parking outside of the venue.
SPEAKER_03So, what is a good size mountain bike event needing car park capacity?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well and you know, Invale Epic in its height heyday with you know thousands needs a big paddock. Um the most of the events we run hit around about the 300 mark. Um, it still needs a relatively large car park. You've got 150 to 200 cars and people don't carpool. People don't carpool. People very like the magic of um oh the you know, we'll just put it in the centre of town. The uh Noosa in Duro used to always say, Oh, people will just turn up to Noosa and then ride to the venue. Almost never. We still had to book out the entire pony club and fill it. Um, you know, a thousand cars for a thousand riders, one car each.
SPEAKER_00And then at the bike rack, so you know the width of a car normal car park when it's called mountain bike cars coming in uh with bike racks is uh impossible. And then everyone wants to work outside uh out the back of their car to fix their bikes. So the lanes get very narrow.
SPEAKER_01The lanes get very narrow. The car park becomes a basically an event village.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, so um is it the number one though? Is that that's the biggest hurdle for an event space?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I reckon it is personally. That's because our vent hub can walk work up a fire road and so forth. We can be quite creative with our event hub to make it work.
SPEAKER_03So that's the number one limiting constraint. If you can't get a hundred cars in there, that's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you know, we can connectivity, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01We can be we can be a little bit creative. We've run events at um at uh a sugar bag with 30 car parks. Yeah, well, it there's a perfect example. Um a kilometre and a half down the road, there's a high school, and they've got 30 more car parks in front of their high school, and then another half kilometre further behind that, there's a sporting field with 80 car parks.
SPEAKER_00And then and they're not riding up the road, they're riding up a bike uh an actual bike path. So you look at it and you go, is there connectivity? What is the options there? Is it safe? So I suppose if there's no parking, it's then what is the safe way that you have an off site?
SPEAKER_01And then we build a drop and Drop and go. So you can unload your marquees and your toolboxes and your bikes and your children and then go and park and then just walk back or take a bike and ride back, whatever you want. So um that it can work.
SPEAKER_00Access to the event hub for vehicles. So ourselves, uh, we've got a high top van, we need to be able to get that in. Um, so mountain biking networks are steep and and uh gravelly roads, so that can be a constraint to start with, and then you think about the food vendors that you need to also get into the site. So Mount Cotton's one of our favourite, and we work out of the Keringgulf Scout Park. But I tell you, when there's some rain happening where there's a lot of nervousness that we can get every car down, can we get them out?
SPEAKER_01And then on that road. And then I'm like the car parking weighs really heavily, but then when we choose a racetrack, I'm looking at where can I get first aid to and where can I get people out if I have injuries. So egress, um, injured rider egress will cancel out some tracks that might be really good to ride, but if I can't get to them for whatever reason, if they're remote, I I I usually try and have tracks that are less than a hundred metres away from a fire road. So if I do have to carry somebody, I can carry them a hundred metres. I don't have to carry them um, you know, kilometres. Uh uh a stretcher parade, you know, a stretcher bearers cannot go very far without, you know, I've done it running out running out of energy. Um and so yeah, with the with the choice of trails and the choice of venues, you know, you then you you get narrowed down into a certain number of things. And you know, you've got to also have a landowner that wants to play. Um the the like I said, conservation areas that uh in Southeast Queensland, not all of them um are welcoming to events. Some of them just basically make it too hard. Um, you know, some of them uh were like that originally, and then we you know could job convinced the number one twister of arm over here, um, can get in there and make make um people come round. And usually when they do, um it sort of breaks the ground so that we can then have many. And and uh one of our events in in uh in Melbourne at at Sylvan, um, the Parks Victoria were very they had sanctioned trails, they didn't know how to do events there, they weren't sure, they had a lot of uh you know concerns about how we'd destroy the place. Um they haven't figured out that mountain bikers mostly uh you know environmentally really uh sensible. We don't leave trash, we don't, you know, we're not we make the base better than what we found. We usually yeah, we usually tidy up more than we more than we bring in. So we yeah, and and once they've once we've broken ground at a new venue, then they become more relaxed and then other people can go in there and and take advantage of and take advantage of the venues.
SPEAKER_00It's an interesting time now. A lot of trial networks are being developed by councils and then not always been uh knowing how to manage that asset because it's not a sports field. Um, so it's often that we will be the first point of contact wanting to book the the network for an event and then actually helping the council to work through permits and so forth because it's not an area that they've thought about um the events wanting to be used in that space. So there where there's a lot of groundbreaking happening um across the board.
SPEAKER_03I think that speaks to the maturity of mountain biking as a as a recreation and a sport now. Like um that wouldn't have happened even definitely not ten years ago, five years ago, you know, in a lot of places, whereas now it's part of the norm. And I was gonna say nothing builds success like success. And there are other templates where they can say, oh, this is working over here, or it has worked there, and so now we know what what the mechanisms are to manage this activity because it still was new to a lot of land managers, and I think that's you know, there's a wave of success building with venues, and you were talking about MOGO, you know, there's um I think Warburton as well, and some of these places have been we got an opportunity to ride Warburton, the trails there are absolutely extraordinary.
SPEAKER_01Um, we rode it just with council um just prior to it opening, so everything was still a bit soft. Um, but uh from what we're hearing, it's going gr gangbusters and but a massive hill. It's a huge hill.
SPEAKER_00It took us an hour and ten on an e-bike for us to get to the top. I was dizzy by the time I got to the top on that before I even started the descent.
SPEAKER_01And and council are running shuttles there. So council have bought buses and they started with eight, and now I think they're up to twelve, and they're yeah, they're running the shuttles themselves.
SPEAKER_00It's a new model that we're all watching to yeah, out. So it's a very commercial model.
SPEAKER_01So whereabouts is Warburton? It's about an hour out of Melbourne, uh to the northeast, gotcha, um, top of the Yarrow Range, uh, Yarrow Valley. Um and there's a rail, like there was a railway line all the way out there. There's now a rail trail. You can get off at Lilydale Station and ride your bike. I think there's about a 40k bike ride out to Warburton on a on a rail trail, beautiful, through little villages on the way, stopping at cafes. It's a fantastic bakery. I know cyclists do love bakeries. Um but Warburton's Warburton's the trails are amazing. The event and the connectivity of the event centre to the to the trail network is still a bit challenged. So they've they're still working through how exactly that's going to work. They can't park, you can't park a thousand cars in Warburton. You've got to park you know on a footy field further out of town, so you're not can immediately there are trails connecting it, but they're not good, they're not racing trails, so there couldn't be um they're not the gravity trails that people want, and it's a long ride, it's a 10k meander, traverse, climbing traverse to get to Warburton, get to the bottom of the trails to get then you've got to go up. So it's like a it's it's um yeah, every network, everyone network is being built for use, not for events.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it's it's got a sum of the pieces, but not all of them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not the primary.
SPEAKER_03What is the the best example of that template? Like what the one that springs to mind for me is is Stromlo, because it was built with an intent um after the the rebuilt after it's burnt down, basically, to um to try and build back. Because that's got a really clear event space. They've got a hub building, they've got a crit course, they've you know, yeah, trail running, overflow parking.
SPEAKER_01It is it is definitely uh one of the best in the country. Um it's not perfect, there's a few things like they um with all the infrastructure they've had there, they've there's no electricity in the far end of the village. They've got a village green, there's no electricity on it. So they've had they've had electricity in that car park when the world's world champs were there. There was electricity in that car park that was all there. They dug it up, moved it out, put the village green there. We want to run an event there, we've got to run generators.
SPEAKER_00Um they also fenced the village green and keep the bikes off it. To keep the bikes off it. So you can't put a start and finish line through there. Um they got close, they just missed it a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um so every but every venue's gonna have its challenges. There's there's there's um Finch Hatton's got some amazing potential. So it's got a good car park. It's in a town that's 40 minutes and 50 minutes out of Mackay, west of Mackay. Um, it's got a trail network that's coming that's getting more mature. It's they're about well, hopefully they'll start phase two. The first phase has been done. Um there's uh big open space, there's um a building that used to be the admin office for the for the um sugar mill that was there. The sugar mill's all flattened area, so there's lots of car space, there's lots of event space, there's a beautiful pump track. The kids are on it all the time. There's a little picnic area, there's barbecue space, they run markets in there, toilet shower. Toilets and showers. It's got some, it's got a, you know, Smithfield in Cairns. It's gonna bring up Smithfield. Smithfield's got m amazing potential. Um, they've got the university right there, they've got um a big open space.
SPEAKER_00Um, they don't have convenient toilets at the trail network yet, um, but they're gonna they've they've just about they've got a master plan and it's uh currently um up for construction starts, I think, later this year. Um, and that's got facilities and plans in there.
SPEAKER_03But that's one of the things, isn't it? When you start to move into that more mainstream, more professional it's like, well, we've got a master plan, we've got targets, we're working towards it. That's a multi-strict development plan. You know, and I think we're still in the the the very the the most urban parts of Southeast Queensland, we're all on legacy assets. Yeah, there's not I can't think of one that's been purpose-built. And I I think the the biggest change will come with the new Olympics venue because it's gonna be a purpose-built uh competition standard venue. Um and I'm hoping that there's gonna be some great legacy of that, you know, once that's established.
SPEAKER_01I worry, I worry that um so mountain biking's been in the Olympics since Atlanta. I don't believe there's a legacy venue out of any of them yet. So I the London Olympics, I don't believe, is a mountain bike park.
SPEAKER_03It's not a mountain bike park, the trail's still there. They did significantly lower the technical difficulty, yeah, though.
SPEAKER_01Um I know Sydney's definitely not there. I don't believe Athens is still there. Um, Beijing, I'm not sure. So, yes, whilst I I say let's let's make Brisbane the one that actually has a legacy that's actually worth people going to, that would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_00I think parklands being already established as a trail network, and I know they've got some land acquisition and all of that where they're building the the actual uh Olympic racing um network, but I think the vision is a bike park, and so I there will be that legacy left. And hopefully, you know, they get that connectivity from the the NAM ball uh and across with the tra uh heavy rail and and things like that. So there's good potential there. I I'm excited about what could be the possibility up there in the Sunshine Coast.
SPEAKER_03Um, so um and I think if there's I think that in terms of what things I see in the pipeline at the moment, I think that I don't see too many other new venues cropping up. But that level of formalization, I think once that's there, other venues will look to it and go, We need what they've got, you know. So I think it might help build like Toowoomba might be.
SPEAKER_00I was just gonna say Toowoomba's the next one that's closest, and there's some, you know, they've got some new land just to the north of Tabley part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um so hopefully uh that didn't come too many ordinance in it still. I believe it was an old an old shooting range for um uh defence force. So yeah, it's um depends what they were shooting.
SPEAKER_03Uh well a a mortar range is very different to smaller.
SPEAKER_00So um so yeah, well, uh hopefully Toomba will um get the stakeholder engagement it needs to um ensure it's successful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's um you know you where do you put the the the hub at the top or the bottom?
SPEAKER_00No, at the moment it's all at the bottom, and it's and it's it we have to use a private property for parking, it's a second council. That road is not even owned by Toowoomba Council, the bottom road. So there's yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's some challenges definitely for Toowoomba.
SPEAKER_03Um I I'd like to see the the event hub at the top. At the top. That's where the population is.
SPEAKER_01You ride to ride, you know, and uh it's it's it has got that the quarry area over whatever that side of the room. Yeah, yeah, the southern end.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's uh I do remember a national round that was in Tooomba many, like, like many decades ago. But the fantastic thing about the venue was it started at the top, so that you had a downhill start with just straight down from the top was a fantastic way to start a race. Yeah, I think the only other venue I've seen like that was Nenango back in the day, which also started at the top of the hill, and it's just a it's a wild way to start a race. Just everyone off the fire road, go.
SPEAKER_01I um I do the risk assessments for uh Rocky Trail. I don't want to do a risk assessment for a descending cross-country start on fire roads.
SPEAKER_03Oh well, this as a pack, lessons learned. Those are the days. Uh look, I I remember um I think I've I don't know whether I've told the story. So Jack Wittenberg and I were on the start of A-grade, and um Jack is a is a madman, and uh neither of us wanted to uh to to give an inch, and we were off the fire road, and we were literally elbow to elbow at the start of you know, cross-country races back then were two hours. Yep. And um we got to the bottom of the fire road and we were like killing ourselves laughing because we had literally been cutting each other off. We'd gapped the entire A-grade field, we'd turned around, there was no one behind us. They all came past us and cooked us on the next line. But uh, it was a great, a great memory.
SPEAKER_01The um uh in those mid-90s, so with back when the two hour when it was a two-hour race and you had uh used to be um two to four, I think is probably more likely. Novice novice sport and pro with that the three and masters, so four categories, which is um yeah. Have you been in a bike race before? No, okay, you're a novice. You've been in a bike, yeah. One sport, been three, okay, pro. Um, how old are you? Over 40 masters, good job. Um, and yeah, mass starts. They were big fields too. There was um, yeah, I can remember um Majura Pines in uh in Canberra, but I think it must have been 97. I think they had 400 people on the start line. I was there, it was a brutal, brutal ride. I was there too. It was um, yeah, that was a good venue.
SPEAKER_02On the start line, we've got to check on the start line with a stopwatch or uh on the start line with a stopwatch, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was doing the timing. Um effectively hand timed that that uh field, everybody got a lap, everybody got a time every lap, and it was me typing numbers in to uh to get them all. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03I remember when we graduated to um uh printing stopwatches.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, beautiful things. Yeah, I've got any of them.
SPEAKER_03Actually, I I think the Dipswitch off-road cyclists have just uh just discovered their old pair, or maybe they've only got one left because they were they were pairs and they were like infrared synchronized, yeah. The C the little um hot uh heat heat sensitive paper that we could print the where it made me feel young. This was but but you know, my first recollection of stopwatches was when we used to race uh and I very clearly remember at Narang where we raced, um we raced the uphill and then the downhill, and literally the uphill was two stopwatches, go and the first go right up, and then you know the guy at the bottom set you off every one minute, remember your start time, off you go. Yep, and the guy at the top just wrote down the time that and then we reversed it for the downhill.
SPEAKER_01The um uh we used to give the the starts to the last one off, so you get write down their start time and hand it to them, they'd take it to the finish, give it to the finish, and then so they'd have the two times there and start the calculations ahead of time.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, I remember people, yeah, we could be on the same second, and they'd be like trying redoing calculations. How many seconds in a man? It's a carry the one.
SPEAKER_01The maths, the timing maths. It's uh yeah, it's no wonder I'm old.
SPEAKER_00I was how many actual national championships did you time?
SPEAKER_01I did uh Hopefully you kept count, you were timing 20 20 in a row. Oh wow. Yeah, uh the only I'll caveat that. There was one year, and I can't remember if it was 99 or 98, when the breakaway happened when uh the cycling federation, Amber, Australian Mountain Bike Association split from Mountain Bike Australia Australia split from Amber, and they had two national championships that year. I only did the timing at one of them. So we had what did we have?
SPEAKER_03We had the cycling Australia, and underneath Cycling Australia, you had Australian Cycling Federation was the original ACF.
SPEAKER_01And you had state bodies. That's right. And there was uh and then there was discipline bodies. So Amber, yes, the Australian Mountain Bike Association, was sitting under the cycling federation. But it wasn't aligned with the state bodies. There was there was there was tension. Amazingly, in inside a cycling federation, there was tension. Yes, I know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Glad they glad we've cleared that up.
SPEAKER_03Glad we've cleared that up. Amber, MTBA. What are we going to call the next one? Tether apart. I think it's the Palestinian People's Front, isn't it? That's the People's Front of Palestine.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad we're looking at the history and never talking about the current politics because the best prediction of future behaviour is past behaviour. Yeah. Yeah. Let's steer away. Um can I ask a question? Uh, how did um Rocky Trail come about for you guys and how'd you fall into the position of working?
SPEAKER_01The Rocky Road. We um so uh in Martin and Juliana started the started Rocky Trail Entertainment in um uh 2008, and I reckon I was timing for them in 2009. Um got to know them really well. They're they're right from the start, they are lovely people, their heart was in the right place. They were they're definitely bike riders, they they love their cycling. Martin's done 11 croc trophies and done racing all the way around the world, mogo challenges, um mogo challenges, Mongolia Challenge, um um and those, yeah, the massive epic events.
SPEAKER_00Um Austrian with massive cars, so yeah, he wants a long race.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he loves a long race. He's he's I was gonna say, I think the croc trophy was bigger overseas than Ottoman got in Australia. He'd have 25 years, he but I mean, but like it was the largest, the largest they drew their participation absolutely from Europe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally. Very few Australians can put their hand up to say they've done it. And uh uh yeah, so Martin and Juliana, that's 2009. Um they purchased their own timing system in about 2010 or 2011. Um and I I was still running, you know, doing timing for races. 2015, working for Mountain Bike Australia. Um Rocky Trail had had uh I hadn't caught up with Martin and Juliana for a long time. I used to ring them regularly and just find out what was going on. Um they had a they they had a lot of uh a lot of the New South Wales races, they think they pretty much ran the national the state series for cross country and downhill and then in Duro in New South Wales. So as tech delegate, I was ringing them and saying what's going on, who do I talk to at this club because I knew them well and I needed to get information at who do I re who do I talk to at this club who might have want to run a cross-country race or or who can I get involved in in the national series? Um then uh just uh I so I left Mountain Bike Australia in 2018. Um uh and I was in Canberra packing up a house and they were running a race, and so I went to say good day, and they were short staffed, so I said, Oh, do you want to do you want a hand? I'll just jump on and give you a hand starting one of the events, and um so gave them a hand for a day. And uh apparently on the drive home, Martin said to Giuliani, do you reckon that was a job interview? Because they were looking to expand. And uh at that point, um young, they've just started their family, was quite young and they were struggling to get away as often as they needed to. He was about to start school, etc. etc. Um, and so uh Martin rang me a couple of days later and said, Um, what do you want to do? Do you want to how many how many events do you want to do, basically? So yeah, started doing started doing events um for them. And then when they said, Oh, we really want to expand, I said, Well, you need a event manager. We should talk to Joe Parker. She's doing this silly thing called Kakoda for runners. She won't last there. She needs to come on board and be a part of mountain bike. So yeah, Joe and I started working together um running their races, and then we started uh our relationship, which um got more than just got more than got personal, basically. Um after we were yeah. And the rest is historical.
SPEAKER_03I guess that was just good timing, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes, good timing.
SPEAKER_00And in Mountain Bike Australia, it was um uh Rocky Trail always had that calendar. Organised so early in the year, and we were trying to plan the national calendar, and it was just always, oh man, they're so organised, you know. Um, so I knew them more of that space as their organisation, not them personally. Um, so uh yeah, when we came together, we just the four of us have clicked our skill set all complement each other, and and Rocky Trail was only known in New South Wales at that stage. Um, and of course, uh when we started, we were like we wanted to take that brand to Queensland and Victoria because it is the I say the gateway drug for events, so it's a perfect intro. Um, but because the industry, we have such good relationships with the industry, um, brand sponsors all are on board, um, or the elites that gives them the time to come and race socially, you know, with their mates, and so it caters for all riders of all abilities and it brings everyone in together, and um and so yeah, we love what we do, and it's now known well a brand that's well known. Um it's definitely across uh the east coast. And uh, of course, you know, we were getting a bit bored with 35 events last year, and uh we see Otter Australia uh is now in our portfolio, and uh that's then just keeps uh keeps us ticking a bit more. And so um launched it last year together.
SPEAKER_02It must be like the equivalent of how many other events combined, surely it's not just one event. It's a it's yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00That 35 doesn't actually count for the nine events within Sea Otter last year, and uh we're already at 11 events this year for Sea Otter in those three days. Um so uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03So with the you're doing so Rocky Trail do cross country uh marathon, yeah, 24-hour superflow and our school events, our Rocky Trail Academies. That's right. So uh what are you adding with sea otter?
SPEAKER_01We've got a we've got a proper enduro, we've got a cyclocross. Cyclocross. Well that's nice. On the beach. The beach on the beach. We've got a gravel, we've got a gravel.
SPEAKER_03Gravel.
SPEAKER_00Uh uh e-bike emx it's called. So four four on track. Yeah, short, short track.
SPEAKER_01We have a freestyle, we have a flippy flippy jumpy, challenge. Um, and yeah, kids' races. It's this year we do a short course cross-country, adding that in. Wow.
SPEAKER_00And a road crit.
SPEAKER_01And we do a road crit and just the a sea otter road crit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we yeah, about two. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna be is it a fat tire crit or is it like a straight road?
SPEAKER_01No, it'll be a road it'll be a road crit, but it'll um there'll be an all-comers category. So or brick what ride the bike you brought.
SPEAKER_03I want to see a a a master order, so uh like for someone who does all the events. Yeah, it's not actually possible because there's not that many hours in the day.
SPEAKER_00All these events are across the uh three days.
SPEAKER_01And uh last year we were in the middle of Sunday, and somebody said, You know, you've got uh what did they say? Eleven active race courses all happening at the one time. Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, how's your head not explode? How are you? I think it did several times.
SPEAKER_01But by by um midway through Saturday morning, I wasn't a fully functioning head. I'd lost, I'd lost, lost control. I have really like we have amazing, we have amazing people who work with us.
SPEAKER_00Um we have a massive crew that are um our work colleagues but also our friends. And uh so uh that does make life so much easier.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but when you scale up for that, how like because at a normal event, I mean we're not I'm not gonna say shoestring, but we're talking sort of five or six people.
SPEAKER_01Five or six on a so for that, how do how do you scale it up? We well, we have five or six in Queensland and five or six in New South Wales, and five or six in the ACT and five or six in Victoria.
SPEAKER_00And they all got to get to the um we were 40 plus in our workforce uh for the Sea Otter weekend, and that was not counting any of the marketing team. Um, and there was quite a marketing team that came to Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We pulled we pulled them from every it's like we've we've obviously we run events for a long time and we've pulled them from everywhere. So we have um Jodie came down from Cairns because we'd worked with her before, and we had um Hayden come from Adelaide because we'd worked with him before, and so we had people coming from all over the country, we'd draw them all, dr drew them all in to uh be a part of Sea Otter, and you we couldn't do it without um trusted allies and workers. Dream team. Yeah, that's right. Um, how are you gonna cope this year when it's bigger? Uh we're getting more people in and uh practice makes perfect, we'll get it right. Which countries are there coming in? That's right.
SPEAKER_00Um the most exciting takeaway for Sea Otter last year was just seeing all the discipline riders from all the different disciplines together socializing in the festival grounds. Um was just the takeaway that we didn't didn't realise that we didn't think about it because it was just a race on a paper and not seeing it all come together as everyone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was bigger than the sum of its parts. Absolutely, absolutely. Um it's all cyclists, so they're all cyclists.
SPEAKER_00And then don't forget the adaptive. We had 26 adaptive riders down there, yeah, all doing different parts of the events. Our first uh our um cross-country short course that we've just put on the the uh schedule for this year. Our first rider that's um uh registered as an adaptive rider, and it's like, oh Bob, the ramp in the event hub, you need to make sure that we modify the ramp to uh uh for to cater for the adaptive riders. It's like no worries. No worries you don't phone call to use mate, scaffolding, hey, we need to do this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we have a scaffolding flyover, a scaffold flyover into into the event hub to uh added that little bit of spectacular and uh I um proudly say live band. There is there were live music. Live music. There was live music, don't worry. There was a festival of cycling. There was there was a there was a bar next to the finish line because you wouldn't have it anywhere else, would you?
SPEAKER_03Oh look, this is this is sounding more and more epic. I think we might have to do a road trip.
SPEAKER_00100% need to 23rd to the 25th of October if you're unsure of the dates.
SPEAKER_03Over two over 200 brands. I'm in New Zealand, 91. Oh, is that the walker?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it does. I mean, which is just you know one of your buckle list. Don't worry, next year it's the same weekend.
SPEAKER_03Third time to charm.
SPEAKER_00It's the same weekend. It's we've got it for 10 years. So October.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Master plan. The master plan. Yeah, so 200 brands already.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or um the ones that weren't there last year will be there this year. So we've pretty much. Yeah. There wasn't there wasn't many, um, a few key, but there weren't many of them. And uh the buzz that the uh vendors got, um the um exhibitors got was yeah, they were blown up was above everybody's expectation.
SPEAKER_03So how do you then leverage that by how do you bring in not corporates but like out of industry? No, no, landowners. Like like like the the local governments, the you know, the we had a summit two days prior.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And gave awards for landowner. Yeah. Um landownagers. Land manager, probably the better.
SPEAKER_00Which was won by one Redlands. Redlands count got uh a land manager's award. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Don't look every LGA would love a little award.
SPEAKER_00So look, but that's that's to do with the trial care um program that they've got running across all those.
SPEAKER_03So bringing that in is is you know, as we say it's success build success. And when you you I mean it's like we had um we had uh Somerset Regional Council representatives go to Derby and go, oh I can see this now.
SPEAKER_01And so you can yeah, so you know Derby sits Derby sits alone in that example of you know a nothing, uh a place that was all the industry had disappeared and it was basically returning to farming um and farming and forestry, and the uh Mountain Brike turns it into a tourism, the food hub, the you know, the that stands alone as a single example of of of you know, that is a model that's around the world being copied, which is great.
SPEAKER_00Um we'd we've got the next level of that's coming to where um so the businesses we've got Rocky Trail Entertainment, which is the event side, and we've got Rocky Trail destinations, so that's um in the uh yeah, but that was with uh trail network builds or um tourism, um how we connect tourism to the bicep bicycle um industry and the network.
SPEAKER_01So um that's also how you make the up the local operators ready for bike riders. Um it works both ways, make the trail build the trails, consultancy work, yeah. And get the local motel, caravan park. Okay, are you ready to accept a cyclist? You know they're gonna get you know grease from the chain ring onto the bed sheets. That's just gonna happen. You just gotta get ready for it.
SPEAKER_00So are you guys involved in that currently or you is that sort of a separate Yeah, uh we have a not it's not our key focus, but um we're definitely as a team across the four of us work full time 24-7 on on more than full time. Yeah, yeah. Um, but we as we don't feel like it's work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's been what, six years now? Six how long have you been?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 2019, uh casually with Rocky Trail and then uh full time since uh 2020. Yeah. So yeah, six years and yeah.
SPEAKER_02Something's clicking and it's it's obvious just listening to you both. What is it that you think makes um the events that you're doing so popular and recurring and you're obviously as passionate now as day one, right?
SPEAKER_01Um it we make it accessible so that anybody can do it, but we also have it's a it's standardized. If you come to an event in Victoria, you get the same Rocky Trail experience as an event in um Mount Cotton.
SPEAKER_00And so the the beauty now is we see our community traveling, because to be honest, everyone likes to travel with their bike and go and see a different network. The safe way of doing it is oh, actually, do it when there's a rocky trail event on because one, we'll get down there and we'll see some familiar faces. Two, we'll get to know the network while the event's on and enjoy some racing. And three, we might connect with other locals and so we can stay for another week and hear about other good racing, uh riding, and while we're down there. So, and we definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um a friendly face in Regio that's willing to talk and and give you the time. Um, we have a we have we uh we welcome novice races, and so that's our goal is to get novice races happy, comfortable, coming back. And uh, you know, we we have we put programs on, we have a diamonds hour um that's kind of my yeah, special thing.
SPEAKER_00So it's to encourage more females to come and race. So the Fox Superflow format is perfect for the female who is unsure, likes riding, but not sure, doesn't want to cat uh have anyone, you know, um hold anyone up, uh, can do the same trails, but in their time. Um so now we've got a diamonds uh session. So on a Saturday morning in the Fox Superflow, we just gather girls together, have a ride leader, and say the track to close the track to boys.
SPEAKER_01We run the girls in that block, they self-seed, then they're only looking after each other. And the really good thing about it is it builds them into a community. Um, they get to ride together, they then get, oh well, now we can go as a cohort around, and we can actually not get bullied, not feel like they're getting bullied, but they can actually stop, you know, have a little bit of mutual support amongst that group that then they can jump into trails and go, okay, boys, don't chase me down, give us time, and our yeah, our starters welcome that. So it's been really it's really positive, I think, um, for the nervous girls to get because there's so many capable riders out there, but they just yeah, they don't want to hold people up.
SPEAKER_00Hold people up. So this just allows them to get the track, clear track for their first run and go, oh yeah, now I know what I'm doing and and how long my run might be, so then I can just say when I'm doing my second run, oh give me three minutes, I need three minutes to get down this track. And no one's in a rush because the format allows them ten hours of racing. So um they've everyone's got plenty of time.
SPEAKER_02What about kids in racing and riding? I saw a comment, a question in the local forum recently about and this may just have been a specific area or a specific person's view, but there's not enough ways for kids, there's not enough kids doing things out there. And the answers I was seeing was insurance, insurance, insurance. Um all these things. Tell us a bit about what your feel is on.
SPEAKER_00So our guide is 10 plus um to go racing. We actually want kids on bikes just enjoying riding bikes and not being in a pressure situation, not feeling like they have to uh achieve a result. Um, we get asked all the time to do younger racing, um, but our guide is 10 plus. We do do the exemptions for those that are if it's their local track and they've been coached and trained, and um we don't offer any shuttles, so people all have to push up to the top of the hill. So that's one of the you know, not all kids are able to um maintain a fitness and so forth, and then ride safely down the hill. Um, but the demand is there and the skill level is getting so much better. Um uh, but it's an interesting one. Uh for sure.
SPEAKER_02What's the academy? Is that racing?
SPEAKER_01This so yeah, so academies are targeted at high school, so it's sort of 11 or 12 year olds to 18 year olds. Um uh we do have a couple of primary school, uh couple of academies where we allow a primary group in. Um they're based on the venue. Um, so sugar bag's a perfect example. Um, a very closed venue, very easily accessible. Um, you're never more than about a hundred metres away from any kid at any stage, um, and it's nice and controlled and contained. Um, so I'll allow primary schools there. I won't let primary schools into Narang, for example, um, because it's just a big spread out and and it's just too big, it's unmanageable. Um, likewise I won't let them in Bruz in Mount Cotton. Um, it's just too much. I likewise I won't let them in Ipswich either, um, because it is the harder, harder tracks.
SPEAKER_00Also, the Rocky Troll Academy is um really super popular. So we're 300 plus anyway on a day without um adding uh primary school into it. Um so again, it comes down to what can we manage safely? And um yeah. And but I just want kids riding on bikes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think that's what the question was about in that four was was was these clubs and things. There's a few around. Um rats aren't currently running theirs. I don't think they had one for kids. They had the bush rats rats program. Yeah, they did. Yeah, I'm not sure if that's great, some really great programs.
SPEAKER_00The Gold Coast's got a fantastic program happening down there, the OMS program. So it's there's definitely opportunity for juniors to be um riding and and getting those skills. Uh, I think I saw that same thread and it was about racing. Um, and I just go, yeah, like just let them let them ride.
SPEAKER_02Let them ride. Yeah, ride socialise, build skills, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like, yeah, the format that we've got the format ideally from 10 plus, we do do it, some exemptions. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03This all sounds very, very well thought out, you know, it's very, it's well conceived. And and you're saying you know you've got uh what's going on in Victoria, what's going on in New South Wales, what's going on in Queensland. Um we were talking earlier about having a master plan. But is it is it a conscious, is it decision like a do you have do you have group meetings, you have do you have master plans? Because we're talking about like 10 years for sea order. Yeah. So you know, what does the uh future look like for you guys for events? Is it more of the same, or what what do you think the future growth will be for the space?
SPEAKER_01I've got I've got a couple of I've got a couple of uh propriety. Look, I I think there's a there is a lot of opportunity in school racing. Like we've we've only scratched the surface in Victoria, for example, um, in a town of five million people, who however many are living in Melbourne. We're running three academies, we're touching five or six hundred kids. Um there could be thousands.
SPEAKER_00There could be that we're educating uh there's a lot of education. So as soon as someone says mountain biking, oh, extreme, because it's all Red Bull and hardline. And even for people that hear I ride mountain bike, what? Like I was like, no, there's a trail for us all. It's not all about, you know, uh especially for the mums and that, like they just see their sons and so forth are doing the downhill or the gravity and think that, oh no, I can't do that. You know, there is trails for us.
SPEAKER_01Or the backflips.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah. Uh and so that happens in schools. I I actually spent 13 years as a business manager in high schools. Um, so I know the pain points the schools are um uh having when mountain biking is mentioned as a sport because it's not um the common sport. Uh there is there is a movement happening though to keep youth active and it needs to be in areas that they love and want to be part of. So the traditional sport is not um and you know is not the fanfare, and we see that now with the Olympics and all their their um changes in you know, basketball is now th you know three and three and yeah, all the sports are all dancing. Yeah, all the sports are changing to get that uh quick uh interactive. Um so in schools I spend a lot of time talking with um educators in regards to risk management and paperwork requirements and safety and insurance to get them to go, oh okay, yes, we can bring a uh a team to the event um and explaining the ratings on the tracks from you know green to black and why we've selected these and if there's A lines and B lines and how we're managing that. And so there's yeah, uh it's a I love it, it's a passion um because it's about yeah, explaining to people that what mountain biking really is.
SPEAKER_01And and we've also we're also really adaptive. So we um we won't go, all right, it's super flow from now for for eternity, because we know that bikes change and riding changes and styles change. We we'll do things while they're working, while they're needed in the community. If uh if a really strong funduro um event starts up somewhere, then we we don't need to go there because we don't need to add to what's already existing. We can find other markets, we can do other things. Um, we've got the skills to do almost anything. Um, some other areas, you know. We look around Australia and and uh you see the the quality of enduro racing in Western Australia, for example. You'd never run you'd never go to Western Australia and say, Oh, we want to run an enduro over there because they do an amazing job. They have a nine-race series, they're sold out in minutes, they're doing a fantastic building juniors up. So they're great.
SPEAKER_02You're telling me you don't have time to be going over to WAS. Well, we weekends as well.
SPEAKER_01We are lobbying hard for an 80-week year. Because then we could possibly stretch it.
SPEAKER_00You know, uh we were we do our the business changes like uh Shimano GP was one of our cross-country four-hour, six-hour events. Um Bob was, you know, cross-country is probably your closest. What kind of racing. So and Martin the same. And it was really sad that we had to make the decision, the four of us, to go actually, it's just not going to be viable, like the market is just um going away, and we've got this other demand of um of riders and so forth wanting more superflows and our school events. So those. The hard decisions get made, and that was one we're hoping. And Bob has been in the industry way too long. He sees the circle and knows that it will be, and we'll we do believe the Shimano GP will re reappear. And if anything, we're getting closer to 2032, and we need to keep these cross country rider riders back. And there it there is it's exciting what youth we're seeing. Um we also get to contract with Os Cycling and do some of their events and so forth. And the last two were, you know, um race directors across country up at the Continental Series um in Cairns and seeing the youth there and down here in uh Oceana Champs at Bayview. Um there's good competition happening um in that area and it's exciting to us and we want to see that grow.
SPEAKER_03So is um uh more e-bikes and gravel in the future for a rocky tribe? Isn't that the growth?
SPEAKER_01I'd love to I'd I'd love to say I'd love to say uh I'd love to say yes to both of those.
SPEAKER_03We don't we uh You've got your niche.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, not at all. I I we've run a couple of gravel races. They're they're um they're rides rather. We haven't done a race yet.
SPEAKER_00Um we did the national gravel championship within New Searindu's over.
SPEAKER_01New Searing O is the national championships in gravel. So yes, you're right. We did do a race. It rained, it sure did. Oh man.
SPEAKER_02That's not rocky trail, though, is it? No, no, again, we contract it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um that's what I mean. We are source sports specialists in um cycling, so we get uh opportunity to play in.
SPEAKER_01Um look, there's no uh there's uh uh gravel market's an interesting one, and I don't think I understand it well enough to be an expert at it. That's one of the things I can I can put my hand on heart and say, I you know I started as a gravel rider because my first my first bike was panas on the bike packing across the cross um the fire roads of the Kosyosko National Park. That's I understand it from that perspective. It's a fantastic, you know, go and explore, grab a bike, go and explore. How to turn that into an event, I haven't quite figured out. Um I've I watch uh and we we're constantly learning. Um the beach road, uh bridge road, rather, um gravel, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00It's a social scene that yeah, has a social network. The social scene I reckon is the priority in the gravel more so than the uh the spirit of gravel is dead.
SPEAKER_03It's true. You know, like you look at it internationally, there's pros as uh UCI uh races. But um, I was just interested to see, you know, like you dabbled a little bit in cycle cross there, but on the beach. So, you know, fantastic beach racing's big in northern Europe. So just say I'm throwing it out there.
SPEAKER_01A very different level of sand. Um, yes, don't worry. Um at one stage more Aussie than being at the beach. At one stage, at one stage, the uh the uh the people who started Nooser Enduro were saying there's a 70 70 is it 70 mile beach just north of Noosa or 70?
SPEAKER_0375 mile beach on Fraser Island.
SPEAKER_01Yeah they said, Oh wouldn't it be great to run a race down that I was thinking not anymore? How hard.
SPEAKER_03How hard so they did um the Northern Rivers Rail Trail, um what is it, down to Crabs Creek. Yeah, but I timed it to get down there at low tide. I rode across and all the way back up to I think it's Pottsville, up the beach on low tide. Brilliant. Fantastic ride on the brand suck cross bike. Brilliant. Yep. But um yeah, gravel's an interesting one. Gravel's an interesting creature.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's it's um Is it a ride or is it a race? Is it is it uh people do people actually want to race on the gravel?
SPEAKER_00Do they want their elevation so you would like elevation of twelve hundred, fifteen hundred, two thousand?
SPEAKER_03I think you're overestimating.
SPEAKER_01A descent, maybe. Um we we put on a gravel event in Canberra in the Brenda Bellas and Amazing event hub. Great event, yeah. Like it was a really good event. We'd you know, we'd good sponsorship, good support from from a couple a couple of bike shops. We had we put catering out at feed zones, we had proper catered feed zones and um put on lunch at the end. It was a good event. I think it was a good event. Um people complained it was too hard.
SPEAKER_00Two and a half thousand metres of elevation, but it wasn't all it was to search of champagne gravel, so smooth, it wasn't all smooth, there were components, but not enough.
SPEAKER_03So so the tyres are getting wider um on gravel.
SPEAKER_01But I saw suspension. I saw suspension and starting to see start starting to see mountain bikes, starting to see yeah. I'm waiting for a neoprene sp um sponge in the in the front fork. I'm on a Teogre disc on the back.
SPEAKER_03Um, but but I think um I would describe it as a curated experience. That's that's exactly what it is. The people in the front are racing, yeah. Even when it's a grand fondo and there's no prize, there's people who are back first. But um it has been a way to take people to places they wouldn't normally go. Yeah, so yeah, it's got a place, but it's it's definitely got a place.
SPEAKER_01It's not mountain biking. Um it's not mountain biking, and e-bikes aren't mountain biking either, although we do run, we do include e-bikers in our box. But it's two and we have and and Sea Otter, we have the EMX, which is four cross on a flat course, where I design a course so that you don't get over 25 kilometres an hour. You can definitely put down massive amounts of power in small chunks, but if you can't ride a bike and you can't get over a feature, the power's useless to you. So that's hard EMX.
SPEAKER_02It's it's can you do one that you can't go over 10 Ks an hour? I want to see that race a trying stand comp.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't have and this is the confusing thing. We're working across, you know, three states and um ACT and trying to every state is in the the current mode of change and what that how that will all roll out.
SPEAKER_01We we're we're not we're not scrutiny is we can't scrutinize a bike. We can't I can't even test a bike adequately. I can't I don't understand the science enough to know what an average power rating of two thousand whatever it is, it's like it's a I just go cross-eyed and and I'd love to have the industry come out and say, well, here's a tool to test it. And I could go, okay, I can test everybody's bike now. This is gonna be great. I can't, there isn't one. So calibrated rollers, yeah, rolling roads. A rolling road, a rolling road with a power meter, like a power, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's good our community, our riders, um they're they're supportive of what um what tests we put in and what and so now it's all we put it back onto the riders. Okay, you sign here, make sure it's in the right setting for racing. And um they're they're doing the right thing, and those who we now get that don't the other riders are managing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um out behind the dining block, we'll sort this out.
SPEAKER_03But um, I look I've been to two uh cross country events that have had bikes that were clearly not within the regulations, and it's like, what are you doing it for? But um look, I I know that e-bikes are great for people to get into the sport and they're enablers and you know, um people can have a great time.
SPEAKER_01You you want to race an e-bike, come to a Fox Superflow because it's a perfect thing. There's no you ride up the hill, sure, you get an assistance to get up the hill, but on the way down, it's more the skill of the rider than the power of the bike. Um we hope. And just become legal, just get on a legal mountain bike and ride down.
SPEAKER_00Set it in the right setting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What you do on your own time. Go do it, do what you want. But when you're on our racetrack, just keep it legal, keep it fair, and uh our insurance company will be much happier. And yeah.
SPEAKER_03So um insurance is an interesting one because we've seen some events that um haven't made critical mass and you know, costs of things like insurance uh were have gone up and things have had to be uh, you know, there's a lot of risk involved with putting an event on now. Um and I think people appear to be holding out to the last minute before they crash the entries. So how do you guys uh uh manage that these days? I know well you've got a reputation that we've spoken about, but is that something that you've seen really change?
SPEAKER_01It's interesting. We had a conversation recently about um the appetite to underwrite big events is disappearing. Um the the the you know, there are very few Jerry Ryan's of the world who are willing to underwrite a large event, screw Turner, um to actually go, oh well let's put let's put $100,000 on the line to see if we can get an event up. Um so we're we're we're lucky that we sit at a at a level in the market where um we can underwrite our own events and we don't need to um uh we never we don't we don't need to spend money on the event we haven't run yet. We can spend the money from the previous event to do that. Um yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting problem.
SPEAKER_00We don't have any waste. Like we we run through, we we think through um our events and like you know if it's not weather that's causing us anxiety, we've we now have to ignore the numbers and just hope come the weekend that it will balance out. Um and that's by making the right judgment or making those hard decisions at times when we've gone to a venue and then gone, okay, that didn't work out, and can we repeat that? No, we can't. We have to make that decision for the next year. Um so uh that we're always reviewing um and uh making changes. And then, you know, currently the fuel prices, I can tell you there's been a lot of conversation on the fuel prices and what impact that will have. Um we're about to kick off our the what we should be talking about. We're about to kick off the Queensland uh series uh two weeks' time, but um we finally get home and and do our racing, even though we've been doing rolling events since February. Um and uh most of it's in that southeast corner, so that's good. You know, we've got Brisbane, Toowoomba, Ipswich, Gold Coast, um, but we have our Mackay, which is our um biggest drive market, and we've also added Wool Gulga as part of our Queensland Tropical series, um, because it's only really three hours down the road and um it's really good to race as well. So we were worried about the outlining outline venues that are further afield. But um Finchhatton is that place that you know it's a large drive for the South East Queensland, but once they get there, um oh, Suri's trying to talk to me.
SPEAKER_02Can you repeat that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, but once people get there, they park their car and they don't have to get back in their car until they're going home three days later, and so people really love that, and it's a real social thing. Um, so we've talked to our riders and actually think that that's classed as a weekend away, and they really enjoyed it and they're gonna do it, doesn't matter what the fuel price is. And the other thing is it brings down North Queensland, we're just in Cairns, and like there's 80-odd riders from Cairns that come down to that event, and that's the only time they get to touch Rocky Trail um events, and so yeah, this week Mick Hanner's text me and said, I'm coming down with a family family of five kids. Oh, cool, they're all coming a race. Well, of course they are because as he said, it's the only time we've ever as a family can ride one race together, yeah. Because so I we were worried about that. I was at one stage gonna, you know, that I was saying to the team, no, we can't do it. We have to review this. This this one, no, don't have a good feeling. But after just been in Cairns and hearing that they're not, yeah, it doesn't matter. It's yeah, it is what it is.
SPEAKER_01We've also we've also lined it up so that the weekend after is the state enduro championships in Rockhampton. So from Southeast Queensland, in school holidays, first weekend come to a box superflow, next weekend be in Rockhampton, do the do the Gravity Enduro and uh then head home. That's um and a lot of the Cannes people uh are doing that as well. So it's um yeah exactly.
SPEAKER_00And that's look, I suppose you you went back to uh one of our original questions, what's one of the things that make a good event or whatever? We won't go to anywhere without talking to the club first. So our club is our first phone call and getting them if they've got an interest in having an event, because this is their chance as a club to actually race and do no work and enjoy what they have created and have that social element and um uh so that's super important to our event planning. And so when we're placing a calendar and going, oh Mackay, we'll we'll line it up, we'll talk to Rockhampton and see when their event is, and we talked to Odd Cycling and found out when their state champs is and lined it so it can work for the riders to come and then continue down to Rockhampton for that second week. Um we s yeah. And we do those conversations already now. We just finished Victoria and we're starting those conversations now for 27 already on the calendar planning.
SPEAKER_02Very organised, very professional. Oppie, we've got the power couple of event uh organizing here. Let's finish with some rapid fire questions. What do you reckon? Should we try and throw in a few?
SPEAKER_03Um uh asked Joe to give us the rundown of the calendar.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah. So yeah, let's do that. So yeah, that's right. So we kick off at Mount Cotton in two weeks' time, so uh 14th, 15th, 16th. Um so Rocky Trail Academy on the Friday, Superflow, Saturday, Sunday. Hey, New for 26, yeah. In there because when we go to the new for 26, your entry gives you both days to race. Last previous years you had to pick Saturday or Sunday. Now it's both days. So 9 o'clock to 2 o'clock. Um we then leave there and we go to Toowomba. So that's on the 5th, 6th, and 7th of June. Um again, Rocky Trail Academy on the Friday, and then uh Superflow. Uh in uh Jul July uh end of June, isn't it? We go to Oh Finchatten, sorry, Finchatten's at the end of June, yep, the start of the school holidays. Uh no Rocky Trail Academy, but we do a pump track up there as part of the super with the Superflow. Um and then we come back down and then we do Sunshine Coast, and that's only a Rocky Trail Academy, um, because again, the venue at Sugar Bag's not suitable for Superflow. Uh so that's in July. Uh, and then we do Ipswich in August. Yep. And we do O'Gulga in in late August. Yep. And then we wrap up with our uh and last round in Narang in September.
SPEAKER_03I don't I don't know whether I'm ready for any more questions. And then we go to Sea Otter, of course.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and Sea Otter's in October. Uh and uh we've got the national marathon championships in Stromlo in uh yeah in September, it's part of the Shimano 100. Uh so that's uh for the all the marathon riders out there in Australia, they're yeah, uh they're super keen on that one. Uh so um we haven't run a national marathon championships under Rocky Trail.
SPEAKER_01No, we haven't. So we we ran a um we ran a uh solo 24 hour a few years ago as a national championships. Um but yeah, it's uh really looking forward to that one. I I do like a big marathon and uh Stromo is going to provide some good trails. Um we've stretched it out to include a bit more fire trail over the back fence. So um it's gonna be an interesting course. People are gonna find it um yeah, challenging but doable.
SPEAKER_00Um got to write it on Tuesday before you came back.
SPEAKER_01I've got to ride it an extended loop on yeah this week. So it's it's Stromlo is Stromlo, it's got an amazing trail network, and uh yeah, we picked up picked the eyes out of it and added a bit of firoad to make it a proper marathon course. Um it's gonna be good. Multi-lap? Yes, unfortunately I can't find I'd love to find 90ks out there, but I couldn't find 90 k's. I've got a I've got a solid 30k's first. So three lap. Three lap, yeah. Yeah, I know. I I I want a point to point, I want a point-to-point marathon too. Nothing would nothing would make me happier. I mean But then you've got to have shuttle buses and yeah, Newser and Duro, the the big loop, that's that's um the 90, a hundred and we've been uh sports managers for that for the previous years, but this year we're not actually doing the new surenduro.
SPEAKER_00So um had to draw the lines. We had to yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, there's only so many weekends that we've got. You say no to that. You say no to that? We say no to very little.
SPEAKER_02Shall I kick off the rapid fire? Yeah, go. This is new, we've never done this. Let's give it a crack. Um, if you had to choose an event to race, one of your events, what would you choose personally?
SPEAKER_01I think it'd be the National Marathon Champs.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the Willow Marathon that we just had. Yeah, nice. I love that lap. That's down in Nara. If you haven't done that one, come down there next year.
SPEAKER_0327, 5, 29, or 32.
SPEAKER_01Uh, well, 29. Uh the bike, you've got to ride the bike you brought. Um, I don't have a 32 yet. I'm looking forward to seeing them turn out. And uh, I want to see uh 3226 mullet set up.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say it's 2626, hashtag 26 not dead.
SPEAKER_01I want to see a 3226 mullet. That would be that would be special.
SPEAKER_00I did say I just hop on a bike and ride. And so when you first said those three numbers, I'm like, what is he like?
SPEAKER_04It took me a half a second.
SPEAKER_00So but I'll I'll just stick to 29 because that's the only thing I know.
SPEAKER_03That's perfect. I was gonna say I could just shorten it to favourite colour bike out of my sexist at the meeting, so I'd just scratch that.
SPEAKER_00I was like, I was like, hold on, what's he going?
SPEAKER_02Where's he going? My next question favourite rider to watch race?
SPEAKER_01Uh um I Tracy Hanna. Tracy Hanna rode a bike. Um I've I've sat in the Stargate, again, another one in the Stargate, and seen Mick leave the top of cans, Mick Hannah. That's an amazing experience. Watching Tracy do it though is I think that's next level. She's fantastic to watch on a bike. Just as the skill effortless skill. Amazing. I think um Mick is brute force. Absolutely. Tracy's got a fracy's finesse. Tracy's got a fair bit of force as well. So you know, if you're not sure. No, you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll give you that. Yeah, no, it's um, yeah, Tracy. Um, when my son was very young, he he's now 25. When he was eight, he went riding with Tracy in Threadbow, and he just talked about it years later. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I again I'm not necessarily racist. I there's a couple of things though. When I first saw Troy Bronson um with the um with the downhill, I was like, how does he float down there? Like that's not what everyone else is doing through that section. So um the the ballerina or you know, the light, and I think the new um Goldstein Goldstein uh has that too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Jack. Jackson, yeah, Jack. Jackson Jackson um doesn't actually race the course, he just goes from like in the air more than on the ground.
SPEAKER_01He floats over things that yeah, it other people are getting bounced around by, and he's just yeah, he's magic to watch. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Caroline um just amazes me uh throughout watching her with all the different disciplines that she has excelled in. Um and just her professionalism across biking is just yeah, uh amazing. And now watching her become a mum um is exciting. So um yeah, they're the two yeah.
SPEAKER_02I was lucky to watch Jared Graves when I got into taking photos at events. So lucky to have him going, you know, Garapine and Jubilee Park, and you'd watch him just fly through a section and look so much more calm, I guess you'd say just float through and everyone else sort of just seemed that little bit more they might have gone high. Or they might have gone you know, skidded a bit more, but like his speed was just he just couldn't quietly fly through.
SPEAKER_01My first my first race, not that I raced it, that I worked at 91 national champs. Um GT bought out uh John Tomac and Hans Ray uh to threadbow. Hans Ray riding over the greasy pole above the swimming pool in that's that's a pretty special experience. He's um he's got some skills, but um you talk about being smooth. Um Tomac, his position on a bike, everybody else looked like the bike was riding them. He was absolutely magic to watch.
unknownNice.
SPEAKER_01They'd go back a long time. That's an old man now.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say John Tomac. Probably no YouTube clips of it, is there? It sounds fun to watch. There is video.
SPEAKER_03There's no it was probably recorded on a VHS handicam.
SPEAKER_02The GoPros back then were probably like stick this to your helmet.
SPEAKER_03They were. There's some great footage of the early early 90s where people had handy, like not even handy cams, like video, yeah. And they had to they had to wait the opposite size. Oh my gosh. Yeah. These days they're tiny. Oh, more rapid fires. I'm I'm actually a little bit I think I'm exhausted by the breadth of events and the the duration of the the time in in it. It's amazing. It's a legacy of fantastic events and a future, which I look forward to in the near future to getting out of some rocky trails in Southeast Queensland.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And we're back home, we're excited. Yeah. Time to uh it's been so long since we've seen our community. So Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The lovely lovely people in Southeast Queensland. The the the people who come to our races, they um we miss them when we go away. And uh we can't wait to see.
SPEAKER_00We had we did have an Academy l in March in Narang, in between our New South Wales, Victoria, and 320 kids.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's uh it's uh yeah, just love the uh Rocky Trail Academy is one of my um yeah, yeah. Um we we called the gold b godparents of the Rocky Trail Academy. Yeah, um so yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well I was gonna say it's not just us, but when uh Southeast Queensland mountain bike riders, when you're out at the events, say hello to Joe and to Bob, and uh I'll see you guys and our listeners out at the events.
SPEAKER_02It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks guys. Any parting words from you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, just thank you very much. You guys um we've been listening to your podcasts and uh they're well they're um highly valued in the community and uh we appreciate your work. I know you guys mostly just sit here and piss around. Um and why wouldn't you? But it's um it is it is um it's valued and uh there should be more of it. So well done. We appreciate it. Good to listen on a road trip. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00I totally that's exactly what we've done.
SPEAKER_02We tried to level it so that the road noise you can hear everything above the road noise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, and uh yeah, we can't wait to see you guys at an event and uh keep doing more um podcasts, keep doing what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00Can do appreciate it, I love Emma's podcast. Oh, that was so good.
SPEAKER_03Uh that was yeah, we need to bring it back for a rematch, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and Blue It. Yeah, it was great listening to Blue It.
SPEAKER_02Old school. And when you get the the whole Rocky Trail team up in Queensland, let's fill this space in. Absolutely. Maybe not your whole Sea Otta team.
SPEAKER_00You could just do a podcast down at Sea Otter.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. You're getting mobile podcasts lounge. We could set you up, we could set you up on stage and podcast live.
SPEAKER_02You know we thought about that. Like I've I've I've mentioned it here and there. I don't know. Are we are we look up how keen everyone is for that sort of events? Yep.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02We'll be there. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Love your work. Well done.