S1E30 - What Remains: The Hagans Siblings on Love, Loss, and the Night Jonathan Disappeared

When Jonathan Hagans vanished, the world kept moving, but for Susan Dempsey and Joe Hagans, time stood still. Now, five decades later, they open up about what they remember from that night, how it changed their family, and the quiet strength it takes to live without answers. A tender, human look at grief that never quite lets go. 

As with all cases, all parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On tragedy, we cover cases that involve real people and real events. Episodes may include discussions of violence, criminal behavior, and loss. We share these stories to honor those impacted and to raise awareness that they may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Three-year-old Jonathan John Higgins was there with his parents and siblings, and before the night ended, he was gone. More than 50 years later, Jonathan's family is still searching for answers. Tonight we hear their story through the memories of his sister, who was 15 that night, and his brother, who was five. Two voices remembering the same night in different ways and sharing their different perspectives. This is Tragedy, a true crime podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

And I'm Michael. Before we get started, I understand that you have some updates on our FOIA requests for the Jonathan Haggins case. You want to share those with us?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yes, I do. Like with every other family story that we cover, I always reach out to local law enforcement under the Freedom of Information Act, which is what we call the FOIA. And so I have done that with Jonathan's case several weeks ago. And I received an email back from the records department at Jacksonville Beach PD asking me to reach directly out to the detective who covers the case. This is the first time something like this has happened. Sometimes we hear nothing, sometimes we hear no. But this time they directly said reach out to Detective Warren with Jacksonville Beach PD. So I sent that email over there and I got a phone call earlier in the week.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

It was my understanding it was from the detective.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yes. I got a phone call from Detective Warren. And Detective Warren indicated to me that I could go ahead and resubmit the FOIA request to the records department and that it had been approved. So I did that. Um, and I heard back immediately from them. This police department has been extremely responsive in this case, which is really, really nice. So they've requested that we mail a fee, which is fine. Some police departments do ask a fee when you request a FOIA. So I'll be sending that fee out. As soon as they get it, they will let us know that they have it, and then they will pull the report. You know, when I spoke to the gals in the records department, they said then they we need to take some time to do any redacting that they needed to do, but then it would be sent to us. So that's great news.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yeah, hopefully it's not a lot of redacting. I mean, this is a pretty old case, and so I wouldn't expect a ton. And what I'm hoping, you know, mostly from this is, you know, as we listen to these stories we're going to talk about today, you know, there's some discrepancies, some things that aren't clear, some things that are different. And it'd be interesting to take those stories and then compare what we see in the FOIA itself.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yes, I I agree. I mean, we do obviously keep in mind that this is this is 57 years ago. And certainly, I mean, I can't even remember what I had for lunch last week.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

People's This is true.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

People's memories changes. Um and lunch is not a traumatic thing, right? Losing your sibling is very traumatic, and there are lots of layers that go into what somebody remembers. Um, and so our hope in getting this FOIA particularly is that maybe we can get some clarity because I do know from um speaking to some of the siblings that they were interviewed by police in the immediacy of Jonathan within days of Jonathan disappearing. So I'm really hoping that we can get some information from that FOIA that will shed some light on this. Obviously, we're always trying to support the family and get as much clear information as we can. So I think that's a good update and we'll keep everybody updated on when we get that.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Okay, as far as today's episode, one thing that's a little bit unique is you know, we have Joe, which is, you know, one of Jonathan's brothers, and of course we have Susan, which is one of his sisters. Susan was quite a bit older. She was 15. And Joe, if I remember correctly, he was five. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Okay. Um, we talked to both of them about coming on the podcast, and this particular event, while there has been a lot of time that's passed, it's still incredibly traumatic. And so what they decided to do instead is provide some statements that we're gonna go through and kind of pull out um the narratives we can so we can kind of you can kind of see from their individual perspectives. Now, what's also gonna be different is we're gonna use some AI voices to tell their parts. It's a little bit more storytelling. So hopefully that's, you know, it'll it's the first time for us too. So hopefully it's entertaining and hopefully it's helpful. And it's not just listening to the two of us drone on reading someone else's emails.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

It's always important to us that when we hear from our families, that we give them an opportunity to share what they want our listeners to know about their loved one. And so we did that with Susan and with Joe. And you will hear that they both describe Jonathan as very independent. And in their storytelling, you can hear a mix of pain, but also some positive memories as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Jonathan was an adorable blonde-haired, blue-eyed child who seemed a bit serious for his age. He definitely was a daddy's boy and was beautiful, which in retrospect made him a target. Back then, kidnapping and trafficking weren't on the radar as they are now. We didn't have him long, three years, but none of us who were old enough to remember him have ever forgotten how special he was.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Jonathan was very special to me, because not only was he the closest in age, he was a brother. I had three older sisters and one older brother. My older brother was the second oldest, and understandably not on the same level as me, and had his friends. I only had three years of this companionship, as I remember Jonathan had a personality that was special. He spoke very little, but what he said and how he said it was profound and to the point. One quote I remember is Use mind your own business. He would say that to certain people that whatever they were saying, he felt the need to respond to them in that manner. He was an independent little boy with a mind of his own.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

As we move along in the story, we understand that there was a celebration happening between two families. They were having pizza at a place on Nick's Pizza, and then we're moving along down to the beach at this point.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yes, that's correct. They left Nick's Pizza, and then they ended up at the 16th Avenue car ramp, and that's where our story continues.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

On June 11th, 1968, a Tuesday, I think, my mom decided to celebrate either my great uncle's and his wife's anniversary or hers and my dad's, or both. Just not sure. It was decided to go to Nick's Pizza at Jacksonville Beach after work, which would have been after 5 p.m. We stayed at Nick's Pizza longer than was planned as it was dark when we left. My mom had promised the boys they would go to the beach after we ate, but as it was so late, she said we should go home. The boys started crying and my dad reminded her that she had promised, so she relented and gave in. We went down to the beach proper, which was several blocks away, and ended up at a ramp on 11th Avenue. We parked at a bar there on the beach, and my dad took the boys down to the water which was up to the ramp. It was high tide, to let them play for a bit. My girlfriend and I walked into the bar, not realizing that's what it was. And although we weren't asked to leave, we became uncomfortable with the attention we received from some male patrons there, and asked my mom could we go outside. She agreed, but told me and Becky to watch the boys and send Dad in. I know she regretted that decision the rest of her life. We did that and we positioned ourselves on the ramp with me being further out, with the water past my ankles but not quite mid-calf. Becky was further up and the water was barely on her feet, and the boys between us. I don't remember how long we were out there, but I don't think it was very long.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

I can say that as a five-year-old I do remember vividly most events of that day. As I remember it, there was a place on the beach that served food and drinks on the north side of the 16th Avenue ramp going down to the beach. We arrived during daylight, and my mother and aunt sat inside, and my oldest sister, her friend, Jonathan, and I were allowed to sit at the base of the ramp leading to the beach. The building was an older building running parallel with the road and having a patio out in front facing the ocean. The patio was closed in by a railing. It was elevated from the patio down to the beach. I remember as the tide came in, we were told to sit at the top of the ramp and not to go down to the beach. I remember the building having glass facing the ocean and seeing my mother and aunt. They could see us as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

So at this point it's late, it's dark, and we've left Nick's pizza, and the family is down at the beach, and they're seem to be in two separate locations. We have some family member up at this bar or restaurant, and then we have other family members who are on the ramp, um, possibly in or near the water.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah, what you're gonna notice here too is this is when our stories start to deviate a little bit, and we're gonna get into some more of those details later in the podcast. But just take note of them as you listen to their stories.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Becky mentioned a light on the water, and I turned around to look at it. Again, I don't remember exactly how long I was turned around, but my best estimate is no more than a minute. When I turned back around, I missed John and asked Becky where he was. She looked behind her and said, He was just here behind me. She was positive that he had gone up the ramp looking for my dad and was with him. We looked around, couldn't find him, and alerted the parents. All heck broke loose, and the rest of the night was mostly a blur. I do remember a bunch of lifeguards showing up from a meeting close by, and of course several law enforcement were there.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Sometime later, my brother wanted to go inside with my parents, and I watched him walk to door, that as I remember was a screen door, and he reached up and opened the door and went in. I turned around and faced the ocean again, and as I remember that was the last time he was seen, some time passed and my father came out to check on us and asked us where was Jonathan, and we replied that he went in to be with them. This is when we all first realized that he was missing.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

This is the point in the evening where the family begins to understand that they can't find Jonathan. And I think as a parent, maybe several of us have had an experience where for a slight moment we lose track of our own children, whether it's in a grocery store or at the park. And so we can begin to imagine how chaotic this would be. And Susan talks about how it's just a blur, and there's really nothing else from her at this point moving forward from the night. However, Joe is very specific about what he recollects as a five-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I saw a look in his eyes at that time that was hopeless and lost. As a five-year-old, I felt my world come crumbling down, seeing my father with that look on his face. I remember the nightmare that followed, like it was yesterday. My mother was in full panic mode, my dad taking me by the hand and going around the parking lot and adjacent places hunting and hollering Jonathan, the police showing up, the Red Cross with the best equipment they had at the time. It was total chaos. My dad put me in the car and parked it at the ramp with the headlights on. Sitting there what seemed like hours wondering if he was going to come back, my mother receiving information that he was found and safe, only to find out that was not true. I remember being handed off to a friend of another ant that lived at the beach and feeling totally abandoned. I was taken back home the next afternoon to find out it was as grim as the night before.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Okay, now Jonathan's missing. And we've had s we've got absolute chaos going on at the time. The next question or series of questions we asked was really to get Joe and Susan's perspective on what law enforcement did at the time, as well as what they've done throughout the years to follow up on this case.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

My dad doesn't drink, never has, but my mother and great uncle did. I do remember them being taken to the hospital due to hysteria. I called my boyfriend and my youth pastor, and they came together to get me. There was a significant water search that went on for days, but his body was never found. There should be archived newspaper records of that. I know my mother had them at one time, but I haven't seen them in years. When the case was reopened, Joey and I went to the Jacksonville Beach Police Department. It's not the same building, I don't think, and we were interviewed separately. I went first. When I brought up the written statement, they didn't know anything about it. They seemed sincere about looking into my brother's case with fresh eyes, and they did verify my recollection of the bar and ramp by pulling old architectural records.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

The efforts I remember from my mother was endless. As a five-year-old, I remember going to places in surrounding areas, even up into Georgia following any lead she would find, going to courthouses and such to look at newspaper articles that were on file for leads or pictures. I remember going to the beach and sitting in the car at common areas for hours, waiting to see someone that might have kidnapped him. I remember the agencies giving up on him being alive, stating he was presumed drowned.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

As we close out sharing what we learned from Susan and Joe, we gave them an opportunity to speak about how Jonathan's disappearance has impacted them throughout the years.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

After I married and had children due to John's disappearance, I was definitely paranoid about my children being snatched, and consequently was overprotective and limited their activities. I think all of my siblings have had a form of that paranoia due to it. Even if they weren't there or like Julie, not old enough to remember the incident but lived in the aftermath. My children resented me being so in their business and checking up on them frequently, but now that they are older, they understand and sympathize. I used to panic if they were five to ten minutes late getting home from school or from work when they got their first jobs at 16. My daughter has two girls, and although she wasn't as paranoid as I was, she has admitted to me that our loss of John and my hypervigilance with them made her more aware and careful. My daughter resides across the street from me now and is single at 52. I still get nervous when she doesn't arrive home from work at a normal time. She has a long commute to work, roughly 90 minutes, so, even though she's grown and responsible, I find myself fretting about her safety when she's not home. It's unreasonable, I know that, but it's there.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

As a large family, we leaned on each other for comfort and hope. We have never given up. To this day, we hope to be reunited with Jonathan or at least have closure. Life became a mess for our family. I didn't understand her ways at the time. I know that it has affected all of us in a detrimental way, each of us differently. My father still grieves and wants nothing more than closure before he is called home. He will be 90 in December. Looking at pictures of him, he always has a look of emptiness in his eyes. I lost my son at 19 to a construction accident, and now I fully understand my mother's grief and demise and my father's empty looking eyes in pictures.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Um this evening was, or this morning, I guess, depending on when you're listening. Um, you know, these are some pretty impactful statements, and it's it's been really interesting to hear their stories. Because, you know, Joe and Susan were both there. And so, you know, even though Joe was five, um, his recollection is pretty vivid when it comes to what he remembers and you know, and we hear Susan's story. Now, do we hear some discrepancies in the story? Yeah, we absolutely hear that. And it's gonna be interesting to see how, you know, when we start thinking about the FOIA that we talked about earlier, you know, how that how that's gonna line up. Because even though one of the things we've learned, you know, through doing this podcast is the information we can get from the is as close as we can get to the event tends to be the single point of truth that you want to focus on.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yes. And she mentioned something very specific in her email, something that I have actually been looking for for several weeks is um it's referred to as a snack shack or a bar or a restaurant. It through various people's eyes, they all say something different. I've really been trying to figure out what it is this is, what is the name of that place that was on the 16th Street boat ramp? And I'm hoping that the FOIA will help with that because Susan mentioned architectural records. I've been in contact with beaches, library, and several different um organizations in that area. They've given me screenshots and scans of yearbooks from 1868 and 1969, desperately trying to figure out what the name of this location is. And so I Susan really helped out with that in her response where she talked about architectural records and trying to figure out the name of that place. I'm hoping that that is released to us when we get information from the police department.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah, and the other piece of it, too, that I think it'll help, you know, other people that have been involved in the investigation. You know, we haven't really talked about Paul yet. And Paul, you know, was part of the investigation pretty early on. I didn't say early on, but once it got picked back up, and he was a real, you know, he really spearheaded a lot of additional work that was done on it. And he even mentioned to us during the interview that you'll hear coming up about the snack shack and how he was unable to find it. But Susan's, you know, statement that she made to us made me th start to think, well, maybe there was no snack shack. Maybe that maybe we've been searching for the wrong thing this whole time.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yes, I think that is an excellent point. And thank you for bringing up Paul from Scent Evidence Canine. I know that he has been a significant support to the family. We first heard of him from Joel, and now we're hearing about Paul again from Susan, and we did speak to him, and so we look forward to talking with him and sharing that information with you all next week. Two voices, two memories, one night that never fades. Their stories remind us of how trauma travels through generations, but love travels with it, and how the smallest decisions, a promise, a glance, a screen door, can echo across decades. For the Hagens family, telling this story keeps Jonathan present. It turns memory into legacy. If you have any information about the disappearance of Jonathan Hagins, please contact the Jacksonville Beach Police Department, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800 The Lost, or submit a tip through the Charlie Project at Charlieproject.org. Every lead matters no matter how small. To the Hagins family, thank you for your courage in sharing these memories, and to everyone listening, thank you for remembering them with us. We hope you'll join us next time. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at Tragedy a True Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.