Building Where Power Already Exists: The XCharge Approach to Smart Deployment

Guest: Atish Patel, CEO (X-Charge Group) and Head of North America, X-Charge
Host: Jason Cortes
Primary Topics: X-Charge origin story, infrastructure-first DC fast charging, ROI and uptime, maintainability, long-term viability, market outlook

Jason sits down with Atish Patel to unpack how X-Charge entered North America with a different philosophy: build charging hardware around the realities of existing electrical infrastructure. Atish shares how he started as a customer, struggled with ROI due to installation complexity and power constraints (especially 208V vs. 480V), then partnered with X-Charge to co-develop a North America-ready solution. The conversation covers product differentiation, operator ROI, serviceability, reliability, and how X-Charge addresses industry concerns around OEM stability.

Key Takeaways

• Infrastructure-first design is X-Charge’s core differentiator, especially compatibility with common U.S. site power (e.g., 208V three-phase).
• Reducing installation friction (simpler terminations, integrated systems) helps lower deployment cost and accelerate time-to-revenue.
• ROI is treated as a design principle, not just a financial metric. Uptime, maintainability, and speed-to-repair are part of the ROI story.
• Maintainability by design: key service items (like cables and boards) are engineered for accessibility, reducing technician time on-site.
• Viability strategy: transparency, standardized components, documentation/training, and partner ecosystems to avoid single-point dependency.
• Market outlook: optimistic growth with watchpoints on subsidies, broader economic conditions, and a shift toward “utility-first” EVs.

Transcript

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In today's episode of Field Frequency, we dive into X-Charge's infrastructure-first approach to DC fast charging. In this episode, I sit down with Atish Patel, co-founder and COO, to unpack how he went from being an X-Charge customer to building its North American arm. We explore how X-Charge cuts through the noise in a commoditized market by streamlining deployment, simplifying serviceability, and building a charging platform that actually pencils out for the operators. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of Field Frequency. Today I'm joined by Atish Patel of X-Charge. Atish, thanks for being on Field Frequency. Look forward to speaking to you today. Glad we were able to set this up. Before we get started, I'd like you to just introduce yourself to the audience. Talk about what led up to your role as Chief Operations Officer and co-founder of X-Charge. Talk about your history. Whatever led to the seat that you're sitting in today. Walk us through that and again welcome. Thanks for coming on. no, appreciate Jason and appreciate you for kind of setting this up and having me on here. I'm just getting into it. I'm Atish Patel, CEO of X-Charge Group and head of North America for X-Charge, I guess, as a whole. I've been at the company for about five years now and I was actually the guy who started off. the North American org for the company, X-Charge, I guess, NA. actually how it transpired and all, that's actually a pretty good story in the sense that I was actually a customer of X-Charge before I got into the seat and ultimately landed to where I am here. The origin story really is, you know, I've been in the product development space for a number of years, working in supply chain product development and whatnot in the additive manufacturing space. And I also have a, you know, family connection to real estate and real estate development and asset management. you know, I was 2018, 2019, you know, I was looking to find ways to help monetize. our properties monetize a little bit more. And Tesla has this super sweet destination charging program that they kind of rolled out with the Model S's that kind of rolled out in the mid 2010s. And we had a couple of these chargers installed on their properties. And I kind of noticed that people were... using these more and more around that time, especially as like Tesla started to roll out the Model 3 and all that fun stuff is coming in. you know, the idea kind of clicked in my head, like there's a way to make money off of this. And in the future, when there's more electric vehicles, you know, there's gonna be need for charters. And frankly speaking, nothing should be. you know, free as a service, I think there has to be a way to do money based charging. And we were starting to see it with the rollout of Electrify America and the supercharger programs and whatnot. So I wanted to get in on that and I wanted to figure out a way to do it with the properties that we had. So, you know, and I could go on for this for a bit, but I'll try and digress a little bit, make it a little condensed. I went and tried to find a solution that made sense for the properties that we had hotels and I guess, commercial properties of that nature. Talked with a lot of big names in the space back then, as well as a lot of other smaller names in this space. And nothing made sense. And the reason it didn't make sense mainly was the compatibility with the infrastructure we found here in the States. And then from an operations standpoint, the method in which the entire solution was kind of put together and how know, me as an operator would need to intertwine to get it to work and ultimately monetize. You know, it cost a ton to install mainly because, you know, 480 was often the native input for the equipment, but for sites it was often 208. And then even when you got the thing installed, you needed separate software to manage it. You needed separate payment systems to accept credit card and integrations and all that were still kind of quite, you know, infant back in the day. So. You know, and it all costs a ton of money to the point where it didn't even make sense from an ROI standpoint to operate a unit. So the root of the issue, you know, that I kind of identified was infrastructure was the big driver. And that was something that really kind of struck a chord with me mainly because I didn't really see a reason why people weren't accommodating, I guess, the 208 voltage here and kind of looking at it from an infrastructure first approach. I talked with basically every charging company under the sun in the U S and China and India and Italy and Europe and Korea. Um, just by way of my sourcing background, I knew the channels to tap and you know, I did an exercise of sourcing and got laughed at a lot when I brought up 208 volt, cause no one had seemed to believe that 208 three phase was a thing outside of those in the U S and those in the U S didn't know how the kid, they can make it cause they weren't the ones actually making the product. Hmm the long story short is I connected with X-Charge. We were able to come to an agreement to basically co-develop a product for North America off of 208, in which I did a lot of the brunt work on the engineering side of getting the product spec, finding suppliers for some of the core components, actually working with those suppliers to develop these components. And then, you worked with X-Charge to make the entire assembly, which is the charger, and that's the C6 we still sell today. went through that process, took about a year and a half and a decent amount of money to get it done, but was able to do so. And in that time, we had a charger that was delivered that fell off a truck and a bunch of probably three or four months of onsite troubleshooting that had to occur, which... you know, was a very fun experience and honestly very valuable because I learned early on what it takes to get this equipment up and running from a servicing standpoint. and you know, we got a product, we got it certified. was doing everything that we kind of put together on the white paper that I had originally written for the company back then. And, you know, with that was able to come to agreement with, you know, the ex charge leadership Simon at that time, to basically. you know, instead of act as a customer, attack the market together. And, you know, that's where I co-founded North America for X-Charge and led that for a few years. And then ultimately that transpired into us kind of doing X-Charge Group, going through that formal IPO process and doing all that fun stuff. But then also playing a part in not only the North American trajectory for the company, but you know, broader part of the global aspect, not just because of my background with. products and operations and whatnot. So that's the abridged shorthand version of how we kind of got there, but it's a little bit of a, it's definitely a good beer story. yeah, and you you said a lot and if we were to take sections and unpack there was a lot of court there was some details that stood out to me because one of the things was that you saw existing infrastructure in place and Not considered as the resource to focus on to deploy charging So that's you know tucked in that if we were unpacked that is is part of that origin story of X-Charge because that's going to lead into the product messaging, what the design looked like. so interesting point that you also made is that you were customer first. That's a shared experience actually. So of course I lead the mobility at field advantage, a field service provider. I was a customer of theirs well before whenever I was working for a manufacturer, competing manufacturer of yours. And anyway, so it's interesting to hear kind of the origin story and what led up, you know, the, the abridge version. And there's a lot, you know, you mentioned the, the unit falling off the truck. I'm assuming that's probably like a beta unit or as early test unit. I'm sure we could probably talk a little bit about what that was, but you know, just kind of narrowing in because I think there's, there is a very key part. to all of this and that is found in the design of X-Charge, in the design of the product that you've brought to market and some differentiating factors and points and features about that product that ties into the gaps that you saw through your discovery process, through that journey that you laid out for us at the beginning. You talked about these suppliers, global suppliers, looking at things through that, of zooming out and not looking at Be myopic about a product, but looking at infrastructure and how do we leverage that? so, getting, getting to the point here, the on my side, the EV charger market is crowded. It's noisy. Chargers are becoming, commoditized in a S or have come become commoditized in a sense that you have, um, excuse me, I got this notification on my screen. the chargers are for the most part become commoditized. And so. uh How has X charged in that's as we peel back those layers that you were talking about how is X charge carved out a niche product niche product. As it compares to other hardware providers in the market. Yeah, mean, you're not wrong in the sense that it is a crowded space, especially, you know, in the DCFC, I guess, sector, if you want to call it that. Though we are starting to see consolidation and I think, you know, over the past year or two, there have been some, you know, entities that just aren't around anymore, just by way of natural selection kind of coming into the play. you know, what's really kind of kept us growing and what's kind one of the... you know, things about X-Charge products that you really don't see anywhere else is our infrastructure first approach to the product. And by that, I mean, you know, we really design and push our products with the mindset of the infrastructure that they're going to be on, as opposed to necessarily just focusing in solely on the functionality they aim to achieve. And what I mean by that is a charger is only as good as if it's able to be installed. You can have a 400 or a megawatt output charger, but if you can't find a place to install it, it's useless. So what we've really been focusing on, and you see it across our C6 line of products, our grid link line of products, and even our C7 line of products to a degree, is that they're meant to be installed anywhere you would need charging. not necessarily anywhere that a charger could go. And what I mean by that is you would need charging, you know, in a commercial shopping center or in a Whole Foods parking lot or a gym or even a fleet depot. But natively, those sites may not have the infrastructure to support, like a typical DCFC. And that could be because of incorrect, you know, incompatible base voltage that's available on the house panels. or a lack of power and capacity, not only in the building, but also in the feeder that's leading up to the site itself. So we're in the camp that, hey, our equipment should be easy to install, because once it's installed and it's functioning, it's very useful and that provides value to us and ultimately the customer. But also, it shouldn't be a process or too much of a process to get equipment up and running. where we see a lot of the root of the issue kind of occur is with the infrastructure that you're going to install on. So 208 volt input is one of those things that we've kind of pioneered and pushed out and we still continue to do and support with the grid link being our latest product that kind of supports that. I think the other thing is like ease of install. All of our units are fully integrated systems. We're not doing cabinet based systems with separate dispensers and We're not shipping things separate. Everything's kind of preassembled for the most part. And, you know, from an installation standpoint, you know, there's a single three phase interconnection or termination within the cabinet. There's not any separate low voltage or DC, you know, input output kind of trickery there. It's all quite simple and easy to install. And what we have gotten constant feedback on from several installers is that our equipment is very straightforward. You don't need, you know, we offer training and that's one of the resources we do. It's training on site, training remotely and training materials. But usually when people see the equipment and they see what the hookup is, they question whether they're done, just considering how simple it often is. But you know, that kind of goes to how we go about making our equipment in the first place. The infrastructure approach, easy up means, you know, just a better experience for everyone else. And that's. not only from an installation standpoint, but then also from an operations and maintenance standpoint. So it's that holistic approach that we take the charging in. We're not pumping out a ton of products all the time in terms of product lines, but every single product we provide is very flexible. And from an economy standpoint, that also allows us to be quite nimble and quite creative in terms of where we can deploy product and whatnot. I'd say that's kind of our key differentiation. yeah, that's and that's a that's a big differentiation. Talk about the flexibility of the deployment installers and creating, connecting, terminating final connections. Wait, is this it? That's a big deal. So it's not only flexibility, but it's functionality. So talking about using native infrastructure, leveraging that. We're talking about reduction in probably deployment costs from the need for upgraded utility service, the requirement that traditional DCFC needs, the three phase, 480 volts. And then of course, all the electrical construction related to that, the civil work, et cetera, the tearing up of the ground. I mean, I've been trying to deploy chargers in existing locations for many years and... My target vertical when I first entered this space was the petroleum C store space. So the retailers of fuel, whether it's single site owner operators or big marketing petroleum retailers and marketers, they build their sites with 1500 amp panels typically. So infrastructure was a barrier. so you've talked about the design behind the product and leveraging existing infrastructure. to work in relation to the product that you brought to market. So let's narrow in on the operators, your customers, the site owners and the owner operator of the equipment. Customer experience, obviously for their customer goes beyond them plugging in their customer as the operator and owner and operator of the hardware that you design and sell to them. So their customer, of course, is plugging in, but for the site operator, it's about utilization. to drive the ROI behind the deploying the equipment to begin with. And then, of course, the uptime. So utilization, uptime. How does X-Charge uh design its product to make owning and operating the product line, whether it's GridLink or the legacy products that you have, what's that look like to the operator? Yeah, mean, one of the things that is written in our company code or employee manual or whatever you call it is our focus on ROI. And it's not only on selling our product and getting a gross margin, but really looking at it holistically for our customer. Because ultimately, the ROI is why a customer would be interested in our product. And if we're able to maximize that ROI for the end customer, you know, there's more opportunity for us to get return on that investment as well. And it doesn't necessarily have to be, monetary ROI, I guess, utilization, reliability and all that. That is one of those things that does play a factor into the ROI of an investment. though, you know, many people seem to omit it. you know, touching a little bit deeper into that, our products are meant to be very straightforward. And, you know, from the installation, before we even get into installation, procurements, you know, we don't, we don't muck about when we're talking about pricing or procurements. You know, we provide inclusive pricing. It's delivered to your address, taxes, tariff, freight included. We don't want our customers to have to figure out how to do import, export, logistics and all that. And that definitely helps make things a lot simpler. when it comes to someone trying to get one of these things up and running, especially those who aren't say large CPOs. A lot of our customers are first time, you know, small time charge point operators and they may not know how to ship LTL. They may not know how to do, you know, import of foreign products. They may not know, you know, ordering a lift gate or scheduling a shipment and doing all that. We handle that. the get-go and that's one of those services that comes with us that I don't think anyone really does outside of ours. The second thing with us is we have a full team internally to help advise on the installation and solution aspect of it. So we have an internal team that comes from the EPC and telecoms world that advises on installation. guess installation pathways for product, installation for permitting and engineering work that may be needed for an installation and stuff like that, as well as we can provide turnkey services to more or less get a charger installed if they need it without having to go through a separate vendor, which dramatically simplifies that end of the process. So we can get a charger installed or we can just sell you a charger depending on your flavor. we have the ability to either, you know, to take care of our customer even before the chargers in the ground fully. And once the chargers in the ground, you know, we have an internal after sales team that, you know, is engineering based and, you know, their job is to make sure the chargers work, you know, the drivers are able to charge. And when things do go around, you know, we work with, you know, partners like you and, you know, others to basically get things resolved in a timely manner. And time is the key. we need to make sure things are done expeditiously because again, the ROI matters and every minute or hour a day that a charter's not online, it's lost money for the customer. And you gotta keep that in mind when taking on the responsibility of having a customer to make sure that they remain a customer. They need to make sure that they get their money's worth from their product and that's where. We have a team that its whole job is to just make sure that the products work and when they don't work, they get back to working as quickly as possible. And that's partially why we've been able to be so successful is our commitment to our hands-on approach to the product and to the customer, which not only allows them to succeed, but ultimately allows them to generate more return on their investments, whether it be from revenue generation. or say for fleets, just you're not reliable charging to get their operations in continuous form. But that's a system we've built out over the years of operations here, as well as through our countless experiences in Europe, dealing with utilities, some of the largest municipal bus fleets out there, as well as operators. And then taking that experience and really transitioning it here with American flavor. Kind of just scaling it as we go. X-Charge has about a decade of experience under its belt. Considering the DCFC space, that's quite a lot, even though it only is 10 years. Many companies do not have that breadth and we've done it in two, we've done it in all three of the major markets right now. Asia, which started to pop off in 2012, 2013. Europe, which started to pop off in like 2016 onwards and now the US. in which we entered into the States in around 21. And I've been kind of firming up our foundation ever since. So that experience level is irreplaceable. And that's another thing that really kind of adds onto the ROI aspect that we have, not only for ourselves, but the customers that we ultimately serve. Thank you for that overview and the kind of tying in on the reliability piece of it, because you mentioned, so kind of taking a step back first and saying it this way. There's been a lot of foresight in the design of the product. There's been a lot of intentionality around the deployment process or the operational flow from basically the beginning of an opportunity. and the intake of that customer's needs to the deployment and getting the unit designed according to their spec and then out the door and landing where it's going to be deployed. So there's been a lot of foresight in the design of all that. obviously without revealing anything related to your secret sauce, but I want to double-click because you talked about an aspect of the foresight around the deployment, around the product, around the design, around the operational flow. You touched on the... the maintainability. You talked about having third party field service providers. You referenced us as an example. without obviously revealing any secret sauce, maybe what's one example of the maintainability of the product? And the reason why I'm asking about that is obviously reliability uptime is a pain point in this industry. And so what's maybe one example that you could share of the product? as it relates to a specific design or maybe an operational choice in the way was made because that no doubt has been infirmed through your discovery process of other manufacturers kind of, you know, pre-excharged days. Yeah, I mean, without getting too into it in terms of proprietary tech, think one of the design philosophies that we take into consideration when, the NPI process or the design and engineering process of a product is the accessibility. And what I mean by that is not only accessibility for like a user to access, but an installer or even a service technician to, say, swap out a cable or reach a board to replace or reach determination connections when doing the final installation and stuff like that. And our goal is, and we have guidelines that talk about clearances and whatnot that our team follows when designing things. You shouldn't have to disassemble half the charger um to swap a cable or swap a board or... you know, replace a POS, which, you know, are going to be the main wear items for these types of products and are going to be the things that require the most replacement and care. You know, similar to a car, when you go to an oil change, you know, you're not having to take apart half the engine to get to the oil filter. It's usually in an accessible spot. And, you know, the same is here. Where for a cable, you know, it takes about 15 to 20 minutes to swap out a cable, and I've done it myself a few times. It's very much a straightforward process, but it's also designed in a way where there's enough clearance and whatnot for a technician to access, but also internally, we're being mindful of airflow, um other considerations from an engineering aspect to make sure that a cable doesn't fail from an internal design reason. uh So those are the things that we definitely take. into consideration and what we have seen, and this is just through field experience of going to sites and having to replace chargers for others, you know, there's variability in how things are designed. And when you hear about the nightmares of swapping a cable or, you know, doing this or doing that, you kind of can reaffirm it when you see equipment when it's opened up um and, you know, there. So not going to name names, but I can tell you a lot of stuff is not Yeah. Absolutely not. about reliability issues. So there's that. Yeah, it's actually there's in addition to the accessibility, the ease of accessibility, you use example of a cable, a cable, most OEMs designate a cable as a consumable because of the wear and tear and because of the usage, et cetera. Most OEMs define cables as consumables. And so to your point, you open up a legacy unit. It was not designed with preventative maintenance or even corrective maintenance in mind. It was more, uh you open some of the legacy units up and it's a spider's nest of wires. There's not design and segmentation of boards and relays. Or maybe it is, but it's been so compacted in there. You can't necessarily get to it without taking parts to your point of access to an oil filter on an automobile. It's not tucked away somewhere where you can't get to it at all without taking half the thing apart. that's, uh you know, When you look, when you kind of back the layers of what that really means to the operator, that means when you do have to address the consumables, when you do have to address the preventative maintenance components, you don't have a technician on site for long periods of time running the meter, running the costs up. It's in and out. It's, it's, it's so that's, you know, it's part of that maintainability, a secret sauce that you've brought to market. So that's good. you talked about the markets that X charges in, obviously you've got. You've got customers in varied verticals. You've got customers in varied marketplaces. So when you're working with the site owner, excuse me, the site host, the owner, operator of the equipment, you're working with fleets. You mentioned that. But maybe public charging is in the customer mix. I don't know, but clearly there's got to be expectations that differ from the Eastern to the Western hemisphere. particularly within verticals in those spaces. how does X-Charge adapt its model based on the market it's in, the customer? Is there kind of a boutique design to the product for the customers that you're working with? Or do you kind of have an out of the box product? How's that look like? What's that look like? I mean, have all of our products are meant for say all use cases for charging. However, obviously there's some that are more, you know, akin to others like public charging versus fleet. That being said, you know, we tend to have marketing materials and general case studies or, you know, documents or just examples that kind of point towards three main verticals or two main verticals. it's often just CPO retail. charging business and then behind the fence fleet operations. And that's how we have been working through the years. And really our emphasis has always been fleet first. And that's mainly from a reliability standpoint for our products and the functionality standpoint, because we got started off in Europe. and in Asia really catering to just fleets. And with the fleets, was heavily focused on, and it's not just the hardware. think the other thing I want to make a key distinction is X-Charge makes the hardware, but then they also make the software and the after sales experience. it's full solution. So with that in mind, fleet based charging really has taught us a lot about what's fleets and honestly people who do high volume charging look for. in terms of the reliability aspect, experience aspect, and then also from a data aspect from a reporting standpoint and whatnot. The transition that we made into public charging really is adding a layer on top of the base of the fleet, which with public... It's just a change in the authorization method and then some of the reporting methods when it comes to the billing cycle. But the fundamentals still stay the same, mainly in the sense of reliable charging experience with robust support and uptime commitments and guess capability through the product, the service, and the software that's there. So it's like that. With the public charging guys though, we do do a lot more focus on the infrastructure bit because going back to the whole niche that's kind of made us special is, you the ease of infrastructure. And you touched on it early on, know, infrastructure costs are a significant part of a charging operation. Our products are really oriented towards having manageable infrastructure costs. And, you know, that's one of the areas where we do a lot of highlighting when we're specifically say going down a revenue based charging opportunity. from a business development standpoint. Well, that's good. We've talked about X-Charges industry entrance and market strategy. We've talked about the operational design, the differentiating factors, your customer experience, your end customers experience, and the operational flow. Let's get into the headwinds of this industry. We don't have to look too far to see examples of companies in the space that have struggled, have been acquired, have closed the doors, et cetera. So as X-Charge is an OEM, you no doubt have to navigate the narratives around long-time viability. That's a message that obviously you have to address with all prospective buyers, whether it's the startup buyers, kind of the mid-tier or early CPOs entering the market, or the legacy. So OEMs have to be around long-term viability with prospective buyers. That is first and foremost in the mind of the prospective buyer when it comes to chargers because they don't obviously want to pair up. a company that's not going to be around. And we've seen a lot of reasons to have that concern oh from the CPO perspective. And CPOs are really late to market, new to market, I'm going say. So how does Charge navigate through those narratives and talk about long-term viability? Yeah, so I mean, it's a question that comes up a lot these days, actually, for us, especially with, you know, recent events in the space, especially from an OEM level. So, you know, we get a lot of people that ask us like, we're about to, you know, we're considering spending several hundred thousand, several thousands or millions of dollars of our money on your equipment in the hopes that it lasts, you know, for, you know, five, 10 years or whatever, but how do we know that you're set up for that or how do we know we're not gonna be left holding it back? And we talk them through the viability of the company and the history and whatnot, which for our credit, we're one of the few DCFC, I guess, companies that are actually listed in the market. So that's definitely something that we weren't able to do because we were... poorly run or anything. think the other thing to keep in mind is, you know, we have a process and our process is meant to be selectively collaborative, you know, with the right people to ensure longer term viability and redundancy. So what I mean by that is like, you know, we're not reusing components in our equipment that are readily available for the most part. And, you know, we're not afraid to. let people know that it's an ABV part number or it's an Amphenol cable or whatnot with this configuration for pins. So, you are allowed to procure on your own and we do sell parts ourselves and we do work with distributors to store parts for our equipment for people to purchase and have on spare parts supply if they wish. We also provide a lot of documentation, not only for maintenance, but also for repairs and the ability to train people. you know, to do a cable swap themselves, to do a fuse replacement, to do a board swap and all that fun stuff there. So that they're not reliant on necessarily just us to go out and fix it. There are savvy enough operators and you know, customers of ours who keep a stock of spare parts on their side. And you know, it's not insignificant in terms of the volume that they keep to basically ensure that they have access to these parts to fix the equipment themselves. So they're not, you know, relying on us to send someone out there doing it ourselves. And that really helps with the resilience aspect. And we are proactive in terms of training and providing guidance on how to do this. Cause at the end of the day, we want the customer to not only choose us because of our product, but choose us because of us. And, you know, the partnership aspect is a key thing here. And, you know, one of the things that we take very heavily and we've seen in the industry in terms of the good and the bad. is that partnerships are what make or break your company or your success. So we work to have very strong partnerships with those who can support us and not really lay us down. And that's from a service level perspective, from a CPMS or a CMS perspective to supplier. Then what that allows us to do is not only maintain a fairly open network of solutions that could be used with equipment, but also kind of makes it beneficial, mutually beneficial for all to keep us all afloat. So there's a little bit of that. think also it's just, you know, running the company in a very conservative manner that shows not just strength and, you know, conservatism, but you know, still full-on capability. And what I mean by that is we're very open on our partnerships with various companies that we work with. we make it clear to our customers that we're going to be as efficient as possible and rely on people to do some of our work, because that's going to be more efficient for you and us and not just our bottom line. So that's another aspect that I know we do quite well in terms of the transparency side of things. And, you know, that's another core thing for our company and our, I guess, go-to-market strategy. That's very key. It's the aspect of transparency, you know, and, you know, really being upfront with customers on what is capable and more importantly, what is not capable and really committing to things that we can do and not committing to things that we can't do. I think that's where a lot of the recent failures you've seen have stemmed from is overcommitments and under deliverance. That's right. Well, I think this has been a great conversation. You sharing your time with us, sharing the story of X-Charge journey and led you up to what differentiations and unique values that X-Charge has in its product. As we get ready to wrap up here, just kind of future outlook. Where do you think about x-charge in the next five years? are some miles x-charge wants to get through? Yeah, I mean, we're very optimistic about what the next five years is showing from an electric vehicle adoption standpoint. And by way of that, very optimistic of what's to come for the infrastructure that's hopefully going to be needed to support that, especially in North America. What excites us is that there's a lot of empty space here. And from what we're seeing, there's a lot more interest in infrastructure. for electric vehicles, which frankly speaking is going to mean hopefully better, you know, more business for us. What we're scared about is, you know, they're not really scared, but we're keeping an eye on, I think is the key thing is how people go about deployment of infrastructure. Number one, I guess, you know, the focus is we see, and then two, I guess how the settlements of various initiatives that are being rolled out or are now not being rolled out, you know, affect, you know, the probably the next year or two of the space. And what I mean by that is like, we've had a lot of pullbacks in subsidies, you know, there's a lot of things that were in limbo, curious to see how things roll out there. I think the other thing that we're curious to see is, you know, there's a hard shift from an EV standpoint in terms of the focus of the vehicles. prior to, I'd say, you know, this year, a lot of the focus has been on fluff and kind of, you know, gimmicky stuff, fastest air to 60, you know, self-parking, crab walking, big things, stuff like that. Now we're starting to see a return to utility. I mean, Chevy Bolt's coming out, the Tesla Model 3 Standard, that's, you know, and the Model Y Standard's come out. You got Ford and all these other companies kind of returning to... economical, more practical, e-me designs. And I think that's a very interesting shift. And we're curious to see how things roll out. think, you the only other thing is economy. Obviously we're in an interesting time, seeing how that kind of affects the infrastructure and I guess, liquidity space is going to be key. So, you know, we're going to want to see how things play out there. For us, we're optimistic about growth. Like I said, I think we're still going to maintain our conservative viewpoint in terms of how we proceed. So, you know, our focus is going to be pushing out the product lines we have, you know, GridLink, John launched last year, C7 also, C6 is here. Really working to continue to cement those products in the marketplace through continued deployment, continued support and... know, continue optimization of the process we've kind of built up to support those products. And I think, you know, from the other scale is like finding ways to help facilitate further deployment. And, one of the things that we've done that we kind of released over the past month is the initiative for leasing, which, you know, from our standpoint, you know, the way that we're looking at it, not only from an infrastructure standpoint, but also from like a capital funding standpoint. is going to be key, especially in markets like North America, where you have a large private presence of potential operators. So really kind of finding ways to help bridge the gaps to get more people to host this type of product and this type of asset, because we honestly think it's a really good investment. now that we have some traction and some decent data to turn to from utilization, we're able to start building up resources to get more people kind of in on this. Not just operators, but also just the small town mom and pops or independents who, frankly speaking, were like me when I kind of got into this in the first place. So again, said a lot. I'll leave it at that. But it's a rosy outlook. But, you know, we're still going to, you know, watch our necks because it's still, you know, nothing is guaranteed just yet. Yeah, rosy outlook, but also rational. There's some rationality tucked in there. you know, that's good. Well, Patish, thank you so much for being on Field Frequency. For those that want to connect with you directly, follow you in base, connect with X-Charge. How could the audience reach out? Yeah, I mean, we have our website xcharge.us. There's obviously our product page and our contact form there. Honestly, our best ways to reach out and stay connected is our LinkedIn. I think we have our extra Twitter account and then, know, she has a connection. We have a lot of people in the States. We're always open to connect on LinkedIn. You know, feel free to connect or follow with us just to keep in touch with what's going on. Thank for being on Field Frequency. Appreciate your time. you for having me. Take care.