The Human Cost of the EV Gold Rush

In this episode of Field Frequency, Eduardo Espinal shares a powerful perspective on the human side of the EV industry—reflecting on its shift from mission-driven beginnings to profit-focused growth.

The conversation explores leadership, culture, and the importance of purpose, transparency, and storytelling in building sustainable organizations that retain talent and drive real impact.

Overview:

• Journey from traditional automotive to EV driven by purpose
• Early EV industry rooted in mission and impact

Key Topics:

• Shift from “missionaries” to profit-driven mindset
• The risk of treating people as commodities
• Importance of leadership, culture, and core values
• Why storytelling and documentation matter
• Warning signs of unhealthy company culture

Career Insights:

• Listen to your instincts when evaluating companies
• Look for transparency, values alignment, and leadership integrity
• Ask better questions during interviews

Big Takeaway:

• Long-term success in EV depends not just on technology and infrastructure, but on strong culture, authentic leadership, and a clear sense of purpose

Eduardo Espinal Bio

Eduardo Espinal is a seasoned professional with over 20 years of experience in sales and management, known for his servant leadership approach and commitment to creating meaningful impact. He combines strategic vision with a people-first mindset, emphasizing collaboration, innovation, and strong values.

He has a proven track record in driving revenue growth, building long-term client relationships, and leading enterprise-wide initiatives. Skilled in business development, communication, and cross-functional collaboration, he excels at identifying opportunities, launching new ventures, and optimizing performance.

Eduardo is also recognized for developing talent, fostering high-performing teams, and influencing stakeholders through a consultative and results-driven leadership style.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This episode is a bit different. Today's conversation on field frequency isn't about chargers, uptime, or utilization curves. It's about people. Eduardo Espinal has spent nearly a decade inside the EV industry, building projects, leading teams, and watching the space shift from mission driven to capital driven. We talk candidly about what happens when the vision turns into theater, when talent becomes a fundraising prop, and when companies forget that human layer behind the infrastructure. If EV is going to mature, this is a conversation that we have to be willing to have. Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thanks, Jason, for having me. Awesome to see you.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, likewise, likewise. Well, looking forward to our conversation. Uh Field Frequency, every episode is sponsored by Field Advantage, a national field service company specializing in EV charger maintenance. We bring subject matter experts from all across the value chain to get online, get on the microphone, and rap about EV, EVs, EV charging, EV software, EV networks, all those things. And so very happy to have Eduardo here today to speak with. Eduardo, if you could just kick things off with your origin story, how you ended up in EV. I know your time in the industry has been spread across some, some, some marquee brands like Charge Point and other places. And I know you're doing all kinds of things, even an adjunk professor at your alma mater. So give us give us your background, give us your story, and uh welcome, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, thanks, Jason. Yes, certainly I've had quite a journey throughout the sustainability space specifically, and non-sustainability space, but I'm a servant leader first, and the way I view myself is I always look at things from a lens of what's the purpose. So my journey really started in the heart of the traditional automotive world. That's where I was at before the regular where I ended up in the EV space. I was at a company called Urban Science, and I was managing teams of data scientists for some heavyweights that you know, like BMW, JLR, Volvo, and Subaru. Our team was crunching numbers, setting sales objectives, and performing blueprint analysis to ensure that A, when they needed to open a new dealership, that those new dealerships didn't violate franchise agreements. So at one point, I was contracted out to work directly for Audi of America in DC. I remember being at an all-hand sales kickoff meeting, and we were all pushing Blue Diesel. And when the truth came out about the reality about that technology of what was happening, it hit me hard. I looked at my twin boys, my wife. I realized that I was doing something that I wasn't proud of. And I just said to the universe, man, put something out there that I would be proud of, that my I can tell my boys and my family that I did something. So shortly after that, when I was at Urban Science, a client, JLR, asked if I had any data on EVs. They were thinking about electric vehicles. I didn't know the brand or name or what they were going to do, but they said, hey, but Michael, my client, and I said to him, I don't know anything about EV space, but let me look into and research and see if urban science has something. You know, full circle comes around. I start navigating the web and see what's out there. I bump into ChargePoint. And around 2015, it was really my purpose was to find data and turn it into and turn it into something that we can leverage for Jaguar Land Rover. But in true fashion, at ChargePoint fashion, they they asked if I was interested in working for them. And that was the universe giving me a sign and saying, hey, this is something good. But I'm very proud of them, my time at ChargePoint because every time I drive by the Jaguar Land Rover HQ in Mawa, New Jersey, and I see those CP250s, those 10 CP250s, one of the first ones out there in the 22 C C T 4000s out in their parking lot. Every time I drive by there, it just tickles me to say, and I can show my boys. And every time I drive by them, I say, look, I installed those. I've worked on those. So that that's really of my journey and how I got into the EV space. And it it's definitely full of pride when I see that, especially that project. And and every charger that you guess that you see at dealerships uh that I help install. So yeah, definitely a proud moment.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, and and it's it is it is worth being proud of because it is it represents there's a lot of work. You see a charger in the ground somewhere. There's a lot of work and a lot of intentionality that went into how it got there. It's it's funny whenever I'm around a Sea Store petroleum gas station and I see a charger there, especially in the area that I live. And I I know that I was a part of the conversation of that going into that site probably a year or two before that ground was even cleared and a gas station was built there and there was chargers being talked about. So I've I've literally charged at locations that I was a part of the origin of that even becoming a charging destination. And so, anyways, long way of saying I relate to what you're saying. That is something to be proud of. And yeah, that was probably some early CP2 models, 250 models as well. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah. Oh yeah. First gen probably actually, no, not probably. Yes, first gen. Uh a lot of uh updates. I remember codes, you know. I think you know, uh putting your hat on, like I mentioned, serving leadership mindset, walking into a customer, thinking in that way. Customers are forgiving when it comes to like coming out with first gen or something like that, because they know that you you're you have a you mean good. Uh so that it's it's always refreshing and rewarding uh to be able to go back to former clients and still now I have former clients that are friends of mine because I have built that reputation of, hey, call me anytime. I'm here to help you and help serve in every way I can. So Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Well, as as you've observed uh the EV industry scale, what what have you seen change in how companies are structured, how they're led, how they're organized, what the mission on on the on the wall is versus the mission that's executed. If you could comment to that.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah. So it brings me back when we first started. I I think we we we viewed ourselves as missionaries, as people with purpose. So we weren't just putting a station in the ground. We were looking at the impact that we were gonna leave. So as I mentioned earlier and why I got involved in the EV space was I had purpose. I had my kids, my twins, my wife, my family. I saw that that was better. I saw that the people that were surrounded thought the same way. So we were missionaries. Everyone came in with a purpose to leave a mark, reduce carbon emissions, and change the world. That's the way we felt. And every and that's how we treated our customers. I see as the industry scaled, and that North Star route shifted, definitely. It definitely shifted. And I saw that we moved from building a mission to building an IPO. And it became more of that IPO. Yeah, it was great. It was fun. Nothing the first time I ever experienced that myself at a charge point. Leadership change, you know, we brought in, which which is fine, which is great. And I'm not faulting them, but they brought in experienced executives who focus on, I want to call it the gold rush. Okay. You know, that was the new gold rush. You know, how do we how do we leverage this experience that they've done with other companies and bring it into this company that, you know, challenged, you know, the status quo of the traditional automotive, you know, and that's where things started to shift. You know, people it versus, you know, we we stopped treating the industry like a movement, but it started feeling more like a commodity. You know, that's where we lost, you know, the people dealing with people. I don't know if you understand what I mean by that. So that, you know, in that aspect, I think back in my hospitality days when I was in Hilton, we always carried around our mission statement. And one of the values was, you know, you're serving ladies and gentlemen. So treat yourselves like ladies and gentlemen. So treat others that you're dealing with. Doesn't matter who it is as ladies, like ladies and gentlemen. So, you know, and I looked at A when we first started missionaries for the V Space, and then we shift into like, okay, we need to make a lot of money. And it wasn't mission driven. Um, and then you know, you have a lot of these companies that come in now in place that, you know, they follow the incentive. They follow, they just open up just to grab as much as they can and treat people like, okay, you're done, goodbye. Yeah. So that's how I seen a lot of things, how the industry has changed a lot.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, I agree. I've it I've seen similar things. I've I've observed that um, you know, in that in that gold rush mindset, quick buck in EV, quick buck in EV chargers, that's not attached to reality. We know that. But yet there are those that have that mindset. And so there's been companies that not only in their their fundraising rush, but you know, to your point about keeping the people, uh, the human side of the business in the equation, talent has become somewhat of a, or I've seen it. I've seen it. Uh, talent has become somewhat of a fundraising prop in that an ED company will bring in a high profile person or fabricate or embellish a role to raise capital or to signal something to the markets, signal something to the competitor, signal something to an investor, signal something to someone. And and so it's like, it's like what you're talking about. Chargers are somewhat of a commodity, but how is it that people are becoming commoditized in the space? And so I guess the question is is how in your observations, how how common has this been? And what do you think it does to the credibility of the EV ecosystem?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

It it it hurts us, it definitely hurts us. Uh definitely I agree with you. Companies hire high high profile names, it's some type, like you mentioned, fluff rolls, but it signals credibility to the investors, they raise that money. Uh it it damages twofold, right? It creates a culture of make-believe or la la land or theater, let's call it. Rather than building, you know, um, you know, a c a culture with that is gonna have a strong foundation that you can build on top of and then continue to continue to grow. I mean, you know, when these I'm gonna call these props eventually leave or fail because they don't have the dirt under their nails, it stains the the the entire EV ecosystem. It makes us all look like a bubble rather than a legitimate infrastructure shift, for example. You know, and and and it saddens me because we I know a lot of great talented people that I worked with that are not working right now. And it's because A, we we we are subject matter experts, and you know, in the beginning stages of our our industry, you know, we were being thrown, you know, all uh you know, good money. Now that we're you know it rose through the ranks, you know, our experience becomes a little bit more pricey. And now this the industry has shifted where it has to correct itself when it comes to how they were paying in many cases. But I but I think those earlier stains definitely hurts those that really care, uh, that really have that purpose, that believe in the EV space, that want to see more electrification and shift into alternative fuels and seeing an ecosystem that's gonna not only flourish for the EV space, but anything that's alternative fuel, because we can't be dependent on one fuel, but definitely hurts us for sure as an as an industry.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, um, I I know it's um it's almost like extracting the energy out of the CP250 with its 62.5 kilowatts. Well, now we only want to talk about 150 kilowatts. So so goodbye 50 kilowatt, goodbye 62. You you've you've we've extracted your value, you're now you're now out of spec. And so it's um uh you know, from the inside, there are typically warning signs that a company is is being performative rather than actually progressing. You've mentioned colleagues, friends in the space that are now without a job because they were a victim of an RIF because that RIF was was fueled by a catalyst that could have been. I mean, we've seen lots of money be dropped into companies, and then I don't know what happens. There's there's always a tale to tell, and there's always you you could always go and look at the forensics of it and see what really happened. But the people are becoming collateral in that and and they're being affected. And so, you know, you you've no doubt seen some warning signs from that perform performative versus really progressing. And so what you know, what what would you encourage those that are maybe sitting on the sidelines through an RIF because of that, or maybe they don't know where their job sits tomorrow? And what are some signs that they need to be looking at? Whether they evaluate a company that they might join, might want to leave, might want to stay. What comments in that area?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, listen to your gut. I gotta say that because I didn't listen to my gut for many, many, many times, and I just went with it, just keeping that, you know, and sometimes just you you have to take off those rosy glasses and maybe talk to somebody that gives you that truth that you don't want to hear. You know, you are easy to talk yourself into something. Like I'm very easy to talk myself into something. Like, but if you talk to like I have a good friend that actually former charge pointer that I reach out to and she tells me the way it is, like it's just amazing, right? But I like and you know, going back to like you know, the human capital is being sold to value at the same rate as like you mentioned as hold hardware. I compare like pawns on a chessboard in many cases. Okay. You know, a lot of leaders forget that they're dealing with people who have families and lives. And so that's one thing that you you know, it's easy for us. And I listen, I've been in the boardroom or at an organization where we're all looking at at an orgsheet, you know, and looking to move someone, right? Without thinking, is that something they want to do? Have we had those conversations? So I think transparency is the biggest thing that you want to look for in an organization. Sure, there's some things that you're not gonna be privy to, but that's fine. So if you see, I think a the big, big, big red flag is financial desperation masked as progress, for example. When you hear of an owner or CEO founder asking for a 60% deposit, what does that say to you? They're fine, they're they're running out of cash, they need cash, right? That's a big, big, you know, red flag. And you know, you may not think of it because, oh, okay, maybe this is something they do. But that's, you know, you should ask, like, why are we asking for money or you know, that much money? Another sign is uh a values gap. So if a company has core values just written on the wall, but the leadership doesn't live them and they don't treat people, don't treat people like ladies and gentlemen, that's a company that's just a shell. They don't believe in those core values because if I'm I believe in the core values, I'm gonna lead and create policies based on those core values. And I'll give you the example. When I was with Flash Barking, I loved working at Flash because we have some core values that I can actually relate to, for example. You know, and I can even easily tell you right now, teach. It spells out the word teach. Really easy for me as a leader to remember transparency, empathy, action, commitment, and hard work. I remember those things like till this day. Same thing at at um turn tight technology, but we lived and breathed it, you know, and those core values made me a better leader. So whenever you see leadership and they can't tell you what their core values are, that's that's that's a red, you know, that that's that's like, hmm, okay. But those are things that I that I picked up on so far.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

That's insightful. And I I hope those that are listening um take that to heart, especially if they're looking at a move in this space. Maybe they're on the outside looking in, and and that that's that you've shared some really important wisdom, I think, in the in that because it it falls into that intangibles category. Mission statement is important, what the vision is, what what our core values are, all of that is important. It's not just rhetoric or shouldn't be. It's not just, you know, aspirational. It should be really what's drive the driving factor, what what motivates me, what keeps me away from the Sunday scaries and and keeps me motivated on Monday. Nobody likes the Sunday scaries. And I've worked for companies in this space where I had the Sunday scaries. I was dreading Monday. I didn't want to get up. I didn't want to log on. I didn't want to start going through because I knew that my value was strictly attached to a number that was on a board. And the moment that that number was not was not guaranteed, I was I was collateral. I could be, I'm just a line on a budget sheet and you're gone. And, you know, I've never I've never been released from a company in in this space, knock on wood here. But you know, but at the same time, it's it was always in the back of my mind, wow, it's like, you know, what does tomorrow really, really hold? And so, you know, those intangibles EV companies, they obsess over utilization, uptime, cost curves because that's what's making them profit. That's what's keeping the lights on. It's important to obsess over that. But there's been other things neglected, like what you're talking about. Another thing is is is the aspect of of communication. Like you said, what's the culture? What's that cultural continuity look like? What's how are they how trans what is that transparency? I mean, we we know what transparency is, but it's not always a clear path to what is conveying that transparency. And then conversely, there's sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and it's kind of probably hidden behind a curtain for a reason. And those are the things that have to be addressed. We we have uh uh an industry colleague, a mutual friend, Anuk Parik, I saw on LinkedIn recently where he where he did a he he did a poll wanting to uh you know asking about budget around storytelling. Are companies looking at storytelling? Have you budgeted this, that, or nothing? Storytelling even on your your radar. And so those are some soft elements that actually those are soft elements that I think um are pointing to that.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

They're survival requirements, Jason. Okay, you know, say more it's you know, EV companies are so obsessed with uptime, cost curves, how many ports, how many, you know, Nevi fund, whatever it is of the flavor of the month, flavor of the quarter, but they neglect to new a new point you're and what you just said about nudes, storytelling and culture. You know, and those aren't just soft skills, like I said, they're survival skills. And when things get tough and an EV, they always do and always have been and will be for a while because there's gonna be a lot of changes coming up. Utilization rates and cost curves and how many ports won't keep your best talent from leaving. You know, they're not, they're gonna leave and they're gonna go to other industries. Only a shared mission and a strong internal culture can can keep that, can do that. If you don't document your why as to what you know, why you're doing this, you're just selling a box in a parking lot and you know what? It's empty, like a shell, empty a shell, so or an empty box. So I think you know, it's a requirement. It has to be a requirement. I learned from one of the best, and a shout out to my friend Mike De Nucci, one of the best storytellers I've ever met. And just having a conversation with him, you know, you see those soft skills. And I till this day, I I I used many of the things that he taught, uh, but I he's what it's storytelling. That's you know, he never very rarely did you actually I never saw Mike take out a PowerPoint. You know, it was always conversation, storytelling, telling something, you know, but he was one of the most effective, num the first salesperson at ChargePoint. And and till this day, I he's a friend. And uh, you know, I I admire his his skill set. And you know, he has an art and a science for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, you know, it's funny you mention Mike De Nucci. I when I got in first got into the space, it was 2016, 2017. I I I didn't know what the questions were, much less, you know, I didn't know left from right. So I was uh YouTube reading watching YouTube videos of Mike Dinucci and how he would speak to the narratives of ChargePoint, and I was I was listening. He was teaching me without even knowing who I who who I am. Probably didn't know who I am today, but he he helped inform me. I I know who he is. I know that he's part of the leadership team over at Amp Up, I believe now. And uh yeah, so you need to ping him and tell him come on field frequency and let's let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Once this posted, I will make sure to send him a copy and say, Hey, your name came up.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, we're we're shouting out some people. We're actually gonna have to uh uh key up uh a noop as well. I know that's right. His ears may be burning right now. But uh That's right, that's right. Yeah, but uh so you know you've you've been in the space what a decade or nearly a decade in this industry, spread across different companies. Yeah. So you've been around, you've seen the projects, you've seen the teams, you've seen companies rise up and companies disappear and drop apart, fall apart. So what what what do you think? Uh and I know we've talked around this, but uh, I just want to hear what why do you think so few companies bother to document? You know, we talked about core values, but EV companies don't seem to bother documenting what they're building. Maybe some do, maybe some, but I I don't think I've seen many doing that and document what they're building and how the decisions are made. But again, going back to that transparency and what actually is motivating them to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, I gotta say companies are getting better documenting in comparison when I first started in the industry. Like they they've noticed that they need to do a better job of documenting. But I just feel like many companies don't because it's the easiest the easiest path to just you know, again, they're just focused on the gold rush. We need to sell, we need to sell, we need to sell, uh, versus document. You know, again, um I think that because we don't document our history, we're opinion. The same mistakes. We lose that human layer of the project. We don't sunshine, we don't make things open where we learn from those uh I didn't even call them issues, gifts and opportunities to grow. You know, if you ever have a chance to read a book, the Netflix uh uh by Netflix, the Netflix story is called it's about their culture. They're so it's so ingrained in them that you know if something goes wrong, they bring it up, they call it, they sunshine it. You know, without you know, you always hear companies oh, bring it forward, nothing's gonna happen to you. I've been in those environments where they say that, and it's always like, should I say? Because my CRO is gonna definitely, you know, say to the VP of sales when it's up for promotion time, remember what happened that time? You're you shouldn't promote him. So if it's not again, it goes back to that core valley, if it's not ingrained, if it's not part of the culture of being able to do to tell things when are not going in the right direction, you know, it people are not gonna say, but and people are not gonna document, they're just gonna let it go. But um, yeah, we we we don't do a good job. You know, I I just I want I want my sons not to see for example, I want my sons to see not just chargers I build, but to understand the work and the integrity that went into them, you know. And I I've exposed them to friends of mine and we talk about that. So it's not so content is in marketing, it's memory. So I when I again storytelling, when I get together with Angela, Debbie or Jeannie, we're not talking about the marketing that worked, we're talking about us, like what we did. We picked up the phone instead of going to customer support, we went and flew wherever we needed to do, but we had that purpose, Jason. So I I I I really wish people would document, document just to have that story, making sure that we don't we won't have white blank pages when it when people start talking about the EV industry.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Well, that's that's that's good. You know, given your time in the space and and maybe if maybe you've got some ad advice to others for experienced professionals maybe already in the industry or considering entering the industry, what are some non-obvious questions that they need to be asking that recruiter, that yeah, interview panel before they commit their time?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah. So like if if you like if I were to think back in some of the interviews before you commit your reputation to any company, ask leadership, you know, like uh show me a time when you stood by your core values, you know, when it cost you a sale or a deposit, for example, or you know, get put those same type of questions. And you keep in mind you're interviewing them to see they're a good fit. People forget that that you need to interview the other person too, and ask the tough questions and be prepared to ask some financial questions about the company. Find out and inquire is this position a new position, or someone was in this position. And if someone was in that position, what happened to that person? If it's a new position, you should ask the question. Oh, I guess sales are good because then you have the money to hire. So that should you know bring up the conversation that way. Um, I would definitely go and see, and maybe not phrasing this way, you know, how do you view people on the on your org chart? Are are there assets to be developed or as components to be utilized? Again, there's a softer way to probably ask, especially if you're interviewing. Um, and what and you know, what is the north star of the company? If the company, if if, for example, some if govern incentives disappeared, what is that north star? Which, you know, govern incentives are disappearing and and and moving away more from the industry. But those are, you know, again, financial people, and you know, again, values. Like those are the three bullet points that I would I would focus on.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, that's uh that's good. You you said about assets on the the org chart. Are they assets or are they uh are there a couple of letters too many, a few letters too many?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah. Yeah. Think about it. Are they assets to be developed? That means they're willing to invest in your training, or are they components to be utilized? I mean, yeah, you know that'll tell you a lot about the leader that you're gonna work for.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Well, Eduardo, this has been a a a good conversation. I appreciate you you sharing these insights. Uh you know, I think um, you know, we we on these uh episodes sometimes get into technology, get into charger stuff, we get into all kinds of things, but this this conversation has been about the human layer. Uh it's been about uh the people uh behind the mission, the people in the mission, you know, with with a focus on uh being successful, but also keeping the human in it. I I I appreciate the wisdom that you've shared and the comments that you've made. It's it's been insightful and very helpful. Any parting sharp shots of wisdom or any any insights you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 27:04

For me, thank you, Jason, for inviting me. Uh this is uh always great to share what you've learned through your career journey and so on. And this is just another form of me giving back to people that I know and people that I may not know that hope to please meet in one form one day uh and connect with me on LinkedIn, please uh ask me questions. I just hope that people adopt the ladies and gentlemen standard, you know, they adopt them to themselves too, and personally and professionally. Um, and if you're a leader, you know, and you have the mentality of you know, of this mentality, stop that chessboard mentality. You know, think of the people. And lastly, if you have if you're in a leader pos leadership position and you can definitely um influence the values or the core values at your company, don't just make it about a marketing brochure, you know, live the values, show that you live the values. It's not too late to start. And then if you're not sure, pick up some books uh to teach you. There's plenty of books out there that can help you navigate the waters of core values or you know, put something in ChatGPT to start. You know, there's so many, so many tools out there now that you can definitely leverage. But no, Jason, this has been great. I I look forward to uh seeing your success. And like I say to the audience, said to the audience before, please connect to me on LinkedIn and I look forward to seeing everybody succeed and cheering for everybody. All right.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Thank you for being on Fill Frequency.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

This episode was produced and edited by the team at Atozi. To find out more, visit autosy.co a-ut-o-z-y.co