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Simply Sell
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Simply Sell
Sales and Marketing How they Should Work Together
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There are so many misconceptions about marketing. Especially how it relates to sales. Entrepreneur Ryan Lucia breaks it down for us during this interview on the Simply Sell Podcast. We discuss the differences between sales and marketing and how a good brand can make selling so much easier and fun.
Good morning. This is the Simply Sell podcast. And we have uh Ryan from Aaron Overhead Door, as well as numerous other companies that this great entrepreneur has uh started. So I'd like to welcome Ryan to the Simply Sell podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Uh it's always good anytime you and I can catch up.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. I've been on your podcast and now uh now you're on mine. So how about that?
SPEAKER_00That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_03So, Ryan, you're a true entrepreneur, and why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Because you're in the garage door industry as well as others, but you've not always been there in that industry. So kind of give us a little bit of background on yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was the kid who struggled through school, uh, dropped out, you know, uh ran around, got in a bunch of trouble, changed my life around, and got focus. You know, I wanted to do something great, but uh failed to have the focus and and uh didn't fit in the box growing up that everybody else did. And I started in sales at a very early age, um, legally and like 19, 20 years old at a car dealership. And then from there, uh just kind of moved my way up into the automotive world and um eventually just got tired of working the hours, you know, seven days a week, 12 hour days, just drain you. Like you make really good money, but you don't even have time to spend it. So it's not really uh worth it, in my opinion. So I went into the vendor side where I was B2B, and this was my first B2B experience, and uh got into software and really enjoyed that. Uh grew we we grew the company from under a million in revenue from the time I joined to um over 20 something million, uh, I think almost all of that being recurring revenue. And then they sold the company. Uh HR came down and was like, hey, we don't see your education on your resume. So I um that that was a short-lived experience. They found some ways to let me go. And so I started a garage roar company, which was completely outside of my expertise. Uh, my expertise is sales and marketing my entire life. And um, I had to learn the name of tools and everything. Like it was brand new to me. But I had a buddy in California who who owned a garage roar company, and I flew out there for a week, trained with him, came back and launched. And and I loved driving around to different people's houses and meeting people and you know, helping them solve problems that were, you know, an inconvenience to them in their life. And so I don't know, just the idea of getting dirty, doing something different, not sitting behind a desk all day really excited me. And then a few years later, I got into uh starting a marketing agency because I um couldn't find an agency that could help me. Uh and then fast forward I started a podcast as well that same year called Tortion Talk Podcast, where we do content for garage door business owners. And um, and then I launched Garage Door You, which is a mastermind in 2021. And um that group is about 40, 45 strong, where we have business owners of uh garage door companies all over the country where we meet weekly, we do events, uh trainings, coaching, whatever. And then um in November 2025, we purchased another garage door company uh called Perimeter Garage Doors, and um now I'm committed to not starting anything else. So uh I think we've gotten to the point where I'm maxed out. I don't run the businesses, which is great because I don't think I could, but I um I do uh I am very involved, I guess is probably the best way to explain it.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so so you've got a background in marketing. So the this podcast is really about how marketing and sales should work together. So kind of give us a little bit of background and what you see as far as how marketing and sales should work together. You know, sales and marketing are different, yeah, but yet they're still kind of connected.
SPEAKER_00For sure. Um you know, with sales, I think a lot of people depreciate all the skill that goes into it, and and I I'm not sure a lot of people appreciate it at all. But when I started in the automotive industry, I was great with people. You know, I could get people to to love whatever vehicle I was trying to sell or products I was trying to sell. But there's uh like salespeople have to be good at every stage, you know, first impression, uh building rapport, product knowledge, uh finding value, finding the pain, like everything. Closing. Closing is probably one of the things I think salespeople really don't put enough effort in, overcoming objections, closing, all that. So being in the car industry, I got trained that a lot. Marketing also, um, very complicated, especially in the landscape today with AI and SEO and everything changing so much, even AdWords is changing so much. Google's losing a little bit of market share. We I think they were at 93, 94, maybe 96, uh, just a few years ago. Now reported that they're down to like 90% market share, which is pretty significant. We talk about 1% being like, you know, God knows how many searches, which is massive. Um I think marketing's changed so much that the two are converging a little bit. The people or companies that are doing brand-related marketing and social media marketing make it so much easier for the salespeople because people can become uh fans or friends to a degree where they feel like they know you before they even call you because of your marketing, and that is the goal of every marketer, in my opinion. You wanna you wanna create uh reputation, you want to create personality, you want to create brand. And then if you hook people with your content that way, the sales team, it should be a layup. And and that that's not easily done. You gotta get everybody bought in and on the same page. The time and effort it takes to create great content, I think, is really difficult and to coordinate it and to know what to do. But uh, I think the two converge uh if you have everybody on the same page between the sales and marketing and then that content creation.
SPEAKER_03So that that's very true, and you know, sales and really involves that closing piece, and it also involves that qualifying piece because you can't close without qualifying. And marketing is basically getting that brand awareness to make it easy for sales, so I I see where you're going with that.
SPEAKER_00And nobody feels bad about salespeople, just so we're on the same page. We're you know, we we always want to say, uh, you know, salespeople are always complaining about not having enough leads, and uh marketing people are always complaining about you know, salespeople not closing and uh creating the ROI and doing their job. It's always fun going back and forth. Uh so I know marketing people want to just drive leads and do their job, but ultimately, like you said, I think it I think great marketers do their best to not just create a lead, but create a warm lead that allows for the salesperson to start at the relationship part where the rapport is almost already built.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. So, you know, as we've discussed, you're a business owner in the garage industry industry, and you strive to provide meaningful different experience for your clients because obviously, you know, most people when they think of a garage door, they're like, oh, you know, it's a commodity or whatever. But until the garage door breaks and you can't get in and out of your house, especially if your car is in the garage and you can't go anywhere. So, so how do you use marketing to differentiate yourself from the other players? I know you're really good at it, but I'd like the audience to to hear this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I wish there was some magic juice there. I think the biggest issue is you know, when you're when you're in an emergency situation, it's low-hanging fruit for all garage door companies. So being being at the top of Google is really important. So our our ad our ad approach, our GBP, Google Business Profile approach, reputation, and organic. Like we want to show up four to five times on every major search in our service area as much as humanly possible. You know, Google page one is uh the most prestigious um you know land in the world, in my opinion. So if you can get multiple houses on the same street, which is page one, then uh that should be the goal. And so, like if we can get in local service ads, we can get in uh Google ads, we can get in um, you know, uh Google Business Profile, we can show up on our with our videos in organic, uh, we can show up in FAQs with our schema markup, and we can do all that, we can have a social presence. You know, Google mentions in multiple things, probably more in e-commerce, but also relevant with home services or whatever business you're in, that most people need to see your brand eight to ten times before choosing you. And so brand awareness, I think, happens way before the spring breaks. And if you can do a good job of that, when people do officially do that search, I mean, hopefully they just search your name. But let's say they don't, uh, then having that landscape is super important because they're going to recognize your name, your brand, because you've already been where they've been and they they have brand recognition, whether they know it or not.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. Okay. So how critical is it for your sales team to sell the brand that you and your marketing team are trying to create? So I know you're involved with the business, you're not necessarily running it, but I'm sure if you have a sales rep that's not selling the brand, I'm sure it just makes you cringe a little bit, maybe a little bit more than that. But yeah, I'm curious to see how critical it is for your sales team to sell your brand.
SPEAKER_00I I I love the the selling the brand, but uh the differentiating factors are for us, you know, we we require every person to be certified. Uh not many garage rock companies in the country do that. And uh we you know, we we talk a lot about uh building value, and our brand, our brand awareness and our brand value hopefully uh has been escalated prior to a salesperson getting involved. But there's you know, people are making decisions based on a couple different things. Um do they know like and trust the salesperson? Do they know like and trust the brand? And there's two very different situations there. You know, you can have a good brand and then maybe two personalities that don't match and uh still lose the sale. But the key thing is uh I think once you have a brand, like this is the most important thing to me. Like I it no longer becomes about being the cheapest competitor. And I think every business wants to get out of the position where they're competing with people on price every single day. Louis Vuitton does not compete on price, they could care less what their price is, right? I mean, you have all these big brands, and you know, in our industry, we got to be very careful because there's a lot of people like price gouging and and charging three, four thousand dollars for a job that mostly costs you know five hundred to a thousand dollars from the local company. Uh so don't hear what I'm not saying. But at the same time, the phone call is very different from uh not having a brand to having a trusted brand. And that phone call is you know, not non-brand or non-reputation is hey, how much is it to fix this? And a brand and uh, you know, good reputation is hey, I need uh one of your service professionals to come out and fix my garage door. And um, and then when we get out there, we have to match the expectations or greater, meaning my guys need to show up, like dress the tins, like I can't have them with holes in their shirts uh from a welder or you know, whatever, looking nasty, greased to their elbows. You know, they need to have multiple shirts in the car because it's hot here. And we've got to represent, we got to show up in a wrapped vehicle. We have to um, you know, be presentable. We have to know how to like handshake. I mean, we practice everything from eye contact to handshake to customer service to, you know, it's easy for us. I tell my guys all the time, like we get in the garage and the first thing we want to do is diagnose the door. But the most important diagnosis is finding out what's most important with the homeowner. And so, you know, going through the steps that we've established in our company and uh and being thorough with that, I think is the most critical when it comes to our salespeople representing the brand and uh and doing it right.
SPEAKER_02Great points.
SPEAKER_03So, how can marketing people help salespeople close deals, not generate leads? I know you touched on it a little earlier, but yeah, I did get a little head on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you know, I I I like I I made up a phrase. I don't know if I I got this from somewhere, but uh I think your brand is your reputation or your culture outside your four walls. So many people want to take pictures of garage doors, you know, in our industry and post them on social media, which I think is great. But this is one challenge that we're trying to figure out internally is a system for allowing people to see our personalities behind the scenes. You know, good, bad, imperfect, or indifferent doesn't matter. But we have we have a culture that I think is very special, and part of the challenge that we have is we want to we want to get that out. And so if a salesperson's, you know, if a marketing team's trying to find a way to make it easier for a salesperson, I think it's you know, you you share your culture outside your four walls, that's social media, it's video, it's education. If you are the source of information in your market, then you know, you become a trusted advisor. And then the salespeople now are going in just consulting on that particular person's situation, and it's not so much about selling something, it's about just consulting and guiding the homeowner through that process um that was already established through the marketing department. So there's a lot of pressure on both, in my opinion. But if I'm a marketing department, that's what I'm trying to accomplish.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I like that. So now you've been successful on both fronts, sales and marketing. So which one is harder? Is sales harder or marketing harder?
SPEAKER_00Man, if you would have asked me this a few years ago, I would have said sales is harder, hands down, without a without a question. And I'm probably better at sales than I am at marketing, but I'm pretty good at marketing. Now I think marketing is more complicated just because everything's changing so fast, right? I mean, even even shopping habits are changing fast. The way the way consumers or the way my son and I uh established a difference between like AI and and people is the way humans are shopping now is very different, right? And as a marketer, we no longer have to even just um market for humans. We now have AI being offered by Google in Google search uh and recommending one service or multiple services to choose from, and then even giving an option to let an agent call each business and get pricing from them. So now you don't even have an option. So you have this middle ground of like it's not sales, it's not marketing, but it kind of is sales, it's customer service, you know, it's it's uh transparency and content. Um, and so like there's almost like a little bit of a gap that's getting more broad between sales and marketing, where like the ladies or guys on the phone are having to like be more familiar with the sales process, expectations, being able to provide price quotes over the phone. Um so to answer your question, a few years ago, definitely sales. Now I think it's definitely marketing, just because of every week, there's major changes that you have to take in consideration when it comes to to marketing, whether it's digital or or not.
SPEAKER_02Definitely.
SPEAKER_03I mean, uh, there's a lot more um marketing avenues, but sales, yes, you can make minor tweaks to the way that you do it, but you still follow those same principles of qualifying, asking the right questions, providing resources, and then of course getting to the position where you can close. So those principles are still in play. So you just have to kind of tweak them a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and practice them, right? Like I think a lot of times, you know, if you're self-aware, self-aware and emotionally intelligent people make the greatest salespeople. And I say that because if you're like for us, if we're in a garage and we're selling a garage door, for example, and we say something and we recognize we get a negative response from someone, or you know, they cross their arms and they step back, or they say, you know what, I want to think about it after you say something. Being able to recognize those things and work on tweaking them and try to identify what you said, how you said it, what was your body like, uh self-evaluation, I think, is critical. Not enough people do that, but then also we're not practicing some of the core things that we feel like we're good at. And I think the biggest downfall for salespeople is feeling like they've they're already good at it and they don't need to get better. And so uh just because you're the top dog on the board doesn't mean you're gonna be there forever, right? So uh I'm a big believer in just always working to get better at sales, uh, regardless of who you are.
SPEAKER_03That's a good point. I mean, when I look at myself, how many times have I reinvented myself because you have to either have to adapt or you're gonna fall to the bottom? So so great points there.
SPEAKER_00And then you get robotic sometimes and you don't put the enthusiasm into it, you're just going through that process, right? Just because you have a sales process doesn't mean that you should lack enthusiasm because people feed off the energy that you come with. So that process is only as good as you are bought into it and enthusiastic about it.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and I am a big believer in that because there's some people that think when it comes to sales, it's all about like process procedure. And I'm gonna go from A to B to C to D, and and that process is so stiff that if it took a yoga class, it would tear a tendon. So I think you can go from A to E and then back to B and to D. The most important thing is is if you're getting the sale in the right way and both people are are satisfied with it.
SPEAKER_00Sales is supposed to be fun.
SPEAKER_03It is, it is supposed to be fun. Yeah, so and it and it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you're winning, if you're closing, it's fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, if you have if you have a had a bad streak, you kind of get a little bit depressing, but yeah, it if you know you still gotta you still gotta keep pushing.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_03So um, you know, it's easy to measure the results of your sales team. Either the sales are there or they're not. How do you measure the results of your marketing team then?
SPEAKER_00This also has changed, in my opinion. I mean, there's always KPIs. We do a lot of digital marketing. Um I think you know, it's really difficult right now because in a lot of cases, digital marketing, we're like we're losing clicks, Google's moving more towards AI, you know, clicks are going down, but you know, in some cases, phone calls are staying steady or going increasing. Uh, but you have a zero-click experience a lot of times, and that causes issues. But I mean, when it boils down to it, I think it's leads. You know, for a marketing agency, we should be about opportunities, you know, qualified opportunities, like like good ones, not just junk. Anybody can sell lowest price and um and accomplish getting leads. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, you know, for my company, we we focus on high-end. So we we want high-end clientele. And um, you know, I I like to try to measure um, you know, what's the average price of the homes that we're going to? Because if our we're trying to target high-end clientele, that's a good indicator that we're targeting the right people. I like to target, I like to, you know, I know they're not fully invested in this, but what's our average ticket? If we go to, um, I don't mean this in any negative form, there's plenty of people that service all levels, but we really particularly want to focus on high-end. Uh, that's why we do a lot with interior designers and custom home builders. Uh, we do a lot for like local sports athletes and things like that. Um, but if if our averages are low because people uh tell us that they can't afford it, then that's you know, we're maybe we're targeting the wrong person or people. Um, our clientele probably likes to be a little bit proactive, where if we go to their house, you know, they they want to change the spring before it breaks, so it's more convenient shopping than it is price-based. And so for a marketer, I'm looking for average tickets, I'm looking for um leads, uh, leads that come from uh higher-end homeowners, and um making sure that we're establishing uh the direction that we want to go. So it's not all about how many leads we get, but like how many, how many leads are we getting for the people that we're trying to target and the percentage of that. So I think those things are really important. And then uh cost of lead is also very important. Uh, how much are we spending to get a client? And um, and then like it's kind of out of our hands as a marketing agency to convert. But what I will tell you is the better you target your your uh perfect avatar uh and and your team is built for that, then the higher your book rate will be and the higher your close rate will be.
SPEAKER_03Okay. All right, all right. Well, definitely a lot in that answer that you provided. So that's very helpful for us in sales to see how it works because there's a lot of people in sales that don't value marketing. I'm a big proponent of it. I use marketing on every strategic call that I'm involved with. So so great insight there. Um, so what should marketing provide before a salesperson even makes a call? What should they should provide to the salesperson before they even go out on a call?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, uh I'm not a hundred percent sure of like how this function works with um with uh with my business, but with like B2B, you know, we used to have like sales engineers or pre-sales people. Um, you know, I've always been a fan of like as a salesperson. Like it's funny, right? Because I'll have people reach out to me and they'll say, Hey, Ryan, looks like you guys are doing great with Aaron Overhead Doors, but you know, you could use some additional marketing. Uh, have you considered hiring an SEO company? Right? So two things. Number one, you could have taken five seconds to look at my LinkedIn profile and see that I own Aaron Overhead Doors and a marketing agency. Two, you could scroll down to the bottom of my website and see that I have a marketing agency. And if you would have clicked the link to go to my marketing agency, you would have probably identified that I own it, right? So uh I think the lack of effort that, you know, I don't know whose responsibility it is. I've always been a prospector. Um, but I love I love the hunt, I love the challenge. Um, you know, I don't I'm not really dependent on marketing to provide us any information. Might be different in your market, but I'll give you a quick little story that I think is relevant and super important. I got into um B2B sales and was in automotive, and then uh they they moved me to try to uh ramp up um multifamily the same. And shortly after that, you know, as a salesperson, this is we're prospectors, like it's part of our job, right? So you have hunters and gatherers. I was a hunter. And um one of the things that I thought was really important was someone told me that there was a group of influencers in the multifamily industry, and they called themselves the Pancake Club. And uh these these were like five of the most influential people when it came to like technology and marketing and like just brilliance, right? And so I ended up hunting them down, figuring out who was members, uh, you know, connecting with them on social media. And then at the very first event, the reason why they call themselves the Pancake Club is because at every event, which there's a lot of them in multifamily, they would get together and have breakfast and order pancakes and hang out and discuss things of the industry and trends they're seeing and whatever. Well, I found out uh through a good source of mine that they were going to a particular restaurant uh in the hotel. And so I went down ahead of time and I sat there for two hours waiting for them to show up. When they showed up, I paid for their pancake breakfast, and uh, and then uh, you know, they got I got a little love from that and and got two meetings out of the five. But then after that, I sent them all uh a plate of realistic looking pancakes uh that was like really nice. I think it cost me like $200 a piece, and we had it shipped to their houses, and they all personally text and messaged me and told me how incredible that was, and they love it. And I ended up being able to meet with all of them over the next few months after that. And uh, you're talking about major corporations and decision makers for companies like Graystar, some of the biggest multifamily companies in the country. And so, um, like I I think we've got to do a good job as salespeople putting in some of the work. I think we're so concerned about the numbers of how many people we're touching that we're probably burning through good leads by not taking the time to get to know our prospects.
SPEAKER_03That's a that's a big thing right now. I I I get calls all the time, and it's for things that I don't even not even involved with. I and you can tell that they didn't really do the research on it. Like I'm I I sell steel, obviously, but I'm getting calls from transportation people like thinking that I'm involved with booking trucks or whatever. So you know, I I think knowing who you're contacting is hugely important. So just do your due diligence about them.
SPEAKER_00And I yeah, you're never gonna get past the gatekeeper on some of these people that I just spoke about, but you know, if you make an impression somewhere, uh that could be huge. And and you know, I did have a meaningful budget to be able to do certain certain stuff with, but I was more creative than anything. But I'm a stalker, like I'm just gonna tell you, like, I'm gonna learn what your favorite sports teams are, like, I'm gonna buy you a jersey, I'm gonna invest in, you know, I'm gonna pick you and then I'm gonna go after you forever. If I want your account bad enough, I'm gonna get it, or I'm gonna get a restraining order. And I don't mean that in like the crazy way, but it's just if you're a salesperson, that just should be your personality and your mentality on how you approach things.
SPEAKER_03Can't couldn't agree with you more. So engagement is the hardest thing we deal with in sales, and you've got to do whatever you got to do to get that person engaged. Yep. So, you know, many companies don't have a formal marketing department. So, what are they missing with that?
SPEAKER_00You know, I love the idea of having like an in-house marketing uh person or people. What I'll say is is a pretty large investment. Um, you know, the benefits of having like a marketing agency is that you can hire a company that has four or five people with different skill sets. Uh, where if you hire someone in-house, you're most likely getting maybe a couple skill sets, but you have a little bit more control over things, and you can just knock on the door, go into the room next door and say, Hey, uh, where are we at with this? Right. It's probably a little bit more convenient, and um, and people know that if they don't do a good job, they're gonna get let go, whatever. Same thing with a marketing agency, but I think it's it's more impactful if you have uh someone or group of people in-house, and then, you know, I uh not not I don't do this because I own a marketing agency, but you know, if if you have the funds to hire people in-house, uh, I like to have that person uh have as many resources as possible. We work with marketing people at businesses all the time, and in a lot of cases it works really well because our job is like, hey, how do we help make you look really good? How do we make you super successful? And in the meantime, like, how do we take weight off of your shoulders so that you know um you can do what you do best? And uh, and that relationship works really well for us. So uh we love that. And then internally, I literally launched my marketing agency because I went through three bad agencies that I felt like didn't do a good job in a very short amount of time. Um, they weren't giving me like the action they were taking to improve things. Um, and so from that, I uh I was gonna hire somebody, but my accounting persons, I didn't have enough money. So I started a I started a marketing agency instead, and uh and it's been very fruitful for us.
SPEAKER_03Well, good that you didn't have money at that time, otherwise you wouldn't have done it on your own.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. It's one of the funnest things I do.
SPEAKER_03So if sales and marketing sat in the same room tomorrow morning together, what three things should they agree on before they leave?
SPEAKER_00Uh target audience, um messaging. And uh I would say also they should get on the same page for like if I if I go, let's say I do a presentation and I don't sell the job, I think that marketing and sales should work together to get that person back into the pipeline or get that person to buy in as short amount of window as possible because once you leave that sale and you don't get like you don't get a signature or you don't get an approval on the first call, time is not your friend. You know, like it's just not. So whatever you can do after that to decrease the time spent, them thinking about it, getting competitive quotes, whatever, I think is critical. And marketing can do a lot of things with that, like retargeting, sending emails, whatever. And then sales can do a good job with just simply following up, making sure they have all the answers and collateral they need to make a good decision.
SPEAKER_03So as we head into the lightning round here, I'm gonna we're finishing up. Best marketing advice you've ever seen.
SPEAKER_00Um you're not for everybody.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Most overrated marketing tactic.
SPEAKER_00Most overrated marketing tactic. Uh Google AdWords.
SPEAKER_02Most underrated marketing tactic. YouTube shorts. LinkedIn or email? LinkedIn. Brand awareness or lead generation.
SPEAKER_00Um brand awareness, but only because you don't want to live on lead generation for the rest of your life, and if you do brand awareness well enough, lead generation will be a byproduct, and you won't have to pay as much. My agent. My AI agent. Uh it can pretty much do just about anything. It's pretty amazing. I don't think I don't think I'll ever not use my my agent.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh one thing every salesperson should understand about marketing.
SPEAKER_00I would say in my case is trust the process and uh don't be too impatient because I think a lot of salespeople put pressure on marketing, and then um, you know, marketing's trying to do their job. Like we're looking at short-term, midterm, long term, but uh a lot of marketing people or companies can try to adjust based on the pressure that they're getting, and then you're financing your future for short term.
SPEAKER_03Ryan, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's been a pleasure. I've learned so much just being on this podcast with you, and uh look forward to having you on again. Anything you want to talk about with what you're doing next?
SPEAKER_00Nah, man. I'm just um I'm blessed and uh just be thankful to be in here chatting with you and uh what an honor it is. Um so yeah, I'm just uh grateful. Appreciate you uh asking me to come on, and I hope there's some nuggets and some takeaways that maybe I've I've learned along the way that's helped some of the people that listen to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thanks again, Ryan. Really appreciate you being on.
SPEAKER_00Take care.
SPEAKER_03Take care.