Episode 33: Dragonslayer (1981)

Do you like DRAGONS? Do you like DUNGEONS? Do you like violence (Yeah! Yeah!), girls in boy drag, puppets, pyro, and close-up egg magic? Well, we are here to remind you that this early 80s GEM of a film exists...Dragonslayer! This is a REAL unhinged episode where Saysha tries really hard to nerd out about Industrial Light and Magic and 80s dark fantasy, but Melanie mostly just wants to talk about hot guys and bodily fluids again. Sounds intriguing? Give us a listen today (definitely a NSFW episode, so be warned, O Listeners!)

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to VHS Sisters, a nostalgic movie podcast with two actual real life sisters. I'm Melanie and I'm Sacia. Get into some comfy clothes, grab your favorite beverage, and come hang out with us as I forced my little sister to watch all the movies she missed growing up. I can tell already you are not looking forward to talking about this movie. What makes you say that? I don't know. Sometimes you just get a vibe. And I feel like this, I mean, this whole show is based on the premise that I am showing you things that you don't want to watch. And sometimes I'm like, I can tell Melanie had a good time with this. And sometimes I'm like, I don't know. Today Melanie's an enigma. Maybe that's just they, maybe that's just your general vibe. You seem relaxed, though. I am relaxed. It's a cozy day here. Uh, you know, April showers, spring May flowers. Is it showering right now there? It's fully, fully raining. You're having a cozy little fantasy movie moment in the house. Yeah, today, listeners, it's our second week of spring fantasy month. And this week, I made Melanie watch a classic from my teenhood years. Today, we will be deep diving and discussing the 1981 film Dragon Slayer. So there were there were a couple of reasons why I wanted to make you watch this before we get into it. I mean, I'm pretty sure you've you don't have any memories of this. Have you have you did you like catch it on HBO at all or see it in passing? Or no, I think the only reference I would have to it is like the font of the movie. The font is so good. I believe the guy who designed the dragon also designed the font. Oh, really? And I think all of the production design and the graphic design on this movie is fantastic. Ryan and I got a vintage poster, the movie poster of this movie. We have not framed it yet. That's like one of our to-do projects, but it's like the classic dragon slayer poster with like Galen and Valerian in the front, and he's holding his spear and there's a big old dragon in the back. So Yeah, I feel like probably just the movie poster is the thing I'm most familiar with, but I've never seen it in passing or anything like that. Yeah, this is one of those movies I was like, well, we have to do this movie, even though I know it's a slow burn and it I think it can test people's patience, especially if you're not like into dark fantasy, which you are for sure, I feel, but it's it's a very grimdark kind of movie. It was a paramount Disney movie, which is crazy. Like Disney was like, Yeah, make a dragon movie for kids, right? And then this is this was made for kids. No way, which is nuts. Yeah. I was not a kid when I watched this. This I wanted to share a quick memory from my teenhood. So I don't know, you know this, that when I was in junior high, they didn't know what to do with me because I was very smart and I scored very high in all my testing, but I was completely ungovernable in class. And so they put me in a special ed class, basically. So there's a lot of there were a lot, there were a lot of how you know how we say nowadays, neurodivergent children in this classroom. And frequently, because there were a lot of teens of like different learning levels in class, they didn't know like what to do with this. So they would frequently put on movies in class. And this was one of the movies I watched in my special ed class in junior high. And me, you know, teen me, whimsical me watching this, I was like, this movie changed me in a very small way, but definitely changed me because there were some things that happened in this movie. I was like, ah, interesting. I think blicks. I was like, ah, blicks. I like this movie, but incredibly dark, incredibly, you know, what we say in the fantasy genres kind of like a grim dark movie. It's also just like visually very dark. I was I watched half of it in the evening and half of it in the day. And when it was day, I had to close my curtains because turn up the brightness on the TV. Turn up the brightness all the way because I mean it's beautifully shot. The lighting, the cinematography, I think is very good, but very, very hard to see, much like a lot of these modern movies. I'm like, I can't see. Or it's like, or it's too much Netflix lighting where it's like overblown. Right. No, this is definitely not Netflix lighting. They they have a great team on this movie. Most of the people who did the effects for this were from Industrial Light and Magic, which is the production company that like worked with Lucasfilm on all the Star Wars movies. Okay. So super, super famous if you're into like stop motion puppetry effects. The the behind the scenes footage, if you're like interested, is so good because all of the stuff is practical. And that's that's another reason why I wanted to show this movie to you because it's just like a delight if all you see nowadays is like shitty CGI, AI, you know, fake everything. I'm like, there's something very like real about this movie. Do you do you have any questions before we get into it? No, no questions. No questions for me. If you watch this in middle school, I'm sure you were exposed to other fantasy before you saw this. Would you say this is like a pillar in your wheelhouse or whatever? Like, is this one of the movies that stands out to you the most? But yeah, no, you're asked, you're asking me if this was my first foray into fantasy. Like this type of fantasy. Not necessarily like I don't know, it's hard to say because it kind of has elements of like the kingdom and then obviously the mythical creatures and the sorcerers and things like that. I feel like you would have had exposure to all that before watching this. Not necessarily. I mean, I in terms of fantasy stuff, I think before this, I would have seen Black Cauldron, which I also made you watch. I would have seen things like Dark Crystal. So more like puppetry animation fantasy, because I was a child. This is like a I would say more adult fantasy. This story and like this whole vibe, it's like a classic, what they call like a spinner rack, uh pulp novel. You if you know what I'm talking about, it's just like it's that kind of like fantasy book that would have been huge in the 70s or 80s, and you look at it, and there's like a guy with a sword on the cover killing a dragon, and they made tons of them because especially in this era, like late 70s into very early 80s, this was like peak A D D time. Regular DD had come out in the 70s, and then it just like took off. Yeah. So late 70s, I would I want to say like 77 to 85, you see so many fantasy movies come out. Like it's it was just like riches of fantasy. And I would say this Dragon Slayer is one of the standouts from that era, along with Conan the Barbarian, Beastmaster, Krull. There's a ton I know you haven't seen some of the. I don't know. Maybe maybe we should watch those too. Wait, Beast month. Wait, you've never seen Beastmaster? I don't think so. Oh my fucking god, Melanie. You're live so you're living a life half-lived. If my husband hears that, that's one of the my husband was born in the 70s and grew up in the 80s. He grew up watching Beastmaster all the time. So HBO, you know the channel HBO. Of course. When it came out in the 80s, it was a very big deal. And HBO, there was a joke that used to go around that HBO stood for hey, Beastmaster's on. Oh shit. Because they used to play Beastmaster all the time. So that's that's some fun, like Gen X elder millennial trivia for you. I'll put it on the list. I'll put it on the list. Yeah, let's do it. But yeah, so anyway, Dragon Slayer is classic, like Grim Dark Fantasy, Swords and Sorcery. Like you said, it's got all the tropes. We have a village that's in England somewhere. We have an old sorcerer, we have an apprentice that's like the most classic fantasy trope, which is elder wizard with a young kid who's gonna take over. We have a dragon, we have crusty town folk, uh, you know, people in a religious cult. Yes, that cults are huge, especially in DD, especially in fantasy. I think you can see because you're a fan of Game of Thrones, yes, big fan. I think you can probably see the connections between this movie and like that style of fantasy, which is a little lower. It's not high fantasy like Tolkien, where there's elves and it's very flowery. Yeah, it's it's definitely like a certain style. Although I do feel like the screenwriters were very influenced by Lord of the Rings. But yeah, it's a little, it's a little darker, it's almost like that sort of pulp novel kind of style where people struggle, there's some bad stuff happens, people die. And they wrote this screenplay. So the people who wrote this screenplay, who are the director, Matthew Robbins, and Hal Barwood, wrote this together. They were inspired mostly. I was uh watching a lot of behind the scenes footage with this. They said that they were both really inspired by the Fantasia sequence, The Sorcerer's Apprentice, with Mickey, if you remember that. And Fantasia, where he's like, you know, messing around and the brooms get all enchanted and it he loses control. They took this little baby of an idea. They're like, Yeah, we want to make a dark fantasy movie. They got in touch with industrial light and magic. The budget for all the special effects was 25% of the whole budget, which is a lot. And it all went to like puppetry, building this dragon, building all the dragons, I'll say. There, yeah, there, I mean, yeah, there was a little dragon, there's big dragon. Let's just get let's just get right to the goods. Why not? What did you you being a fan, I know, of dragons, of game of thrones, of dragon-related content. What were your feelings on this dragon? This dragon whose name is Vermitrax pejorative. Pejorative, yes, the dragon's name is Vermitrax pejorative, which is so funny to me. Well, and I'm assuming it's a female, right? Um, they don't really mention gender, I don't think. Because there are babies. There are babies, but it could be, he could be a single dad. Vermitrax could be a single dad, yeah. True that. The good the good good men are out there, Melanie.

unknown 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Um, how did I feel? I said that I love, like, for me, I love how the dragon is never the same dragon in every shot. Like it's always like a little bit different. It's like the sometimes the nose is really long, sometimes it's kind of squished in, like a pug face. And then he changes colors a lot. So sometimes he's green or red. So as far as consistency of the dragon, I wasn't really loving him. Um, but at the same time, like I liked how they waited for the reveal. Uh, they saved all those uh special effects for the end, obviously. But like in the somewhere in the middle of the movie, you see the dragon come out, and all you see is it's like chicken foot come out and try to stomp on Galen. And then like you don't really see any more of it. And then you go in the cave later, see the baby dragons, which I actually really like the baby dragons. They kind of look like bulldogs to me. Yeah, I just I just wasn't crazy about it, but I like that there was a dragon. I can't believe what you you when they first revealed that dragon in front of the priest before he gets roasted, you just felt nothing. See, the thing is, is I have been spoiled by the the, you know. No, you have to tell me. I don't know. What are you spoiled by? I'm spo I'm spoiled by like Game of Thrones level puppetry. That fight, that's not puppetry, dude. That's CGI. That's well, it's CGI with like they, you know, they have to still have the sponge on a stick to have you know the actor pet the sponge. Yeah, no, that like fucking Daenerys is patting a tennis ball on a stick. That's not a puppet. This is a puppet. The whole thing is a puppet. They had a little puppet, like a little stop motion animation puppet, like Ray Harryhausen style, like minis. They had a big guy, like that's all practical. Everything you see is they built that, but it didn't do it for you. It didn't totally do it for me. No, sorry. That's that's okay. And a day, you know what? I was having a good day. I just before we got on, I was telling Melanie what a nice day I had. But now, now that day is uh is taking a turn. It's over, it's over. Yeah, I wasn't like I wasn't totally sold on uh the dragon, but at the same time, it it was fun. I almost like liked it a lot because I laughed. You know what I'm saying? Like I laughed. You laughed? You laughed at this dragon at the the horror of Vermithrax pejorative. I laugh in the face of danger. Um, that's that's a wild take. I thought you would at least enjoy the dragon. And I know you love puppets, but this wasn't reading puppet to you. No, I mean, I guess it did in some areas. Like I guess when the face moves, you can kind of see like perhaps people navigating. I don't know how they built the puppet. That would be interesting to look at, though. Um well, if you watch it on 4K Blu-ray, which I did. Uh they they came out, I think it was 2023. They came out with the Blu-ray that we have, and it's really good. I don't know what streaming platform you watch this on. Um I I did a I did a Pluto TV. You did a Pluto TV, yeah. The DVD is really good. You get a lot of behind the scenes footage, which is my favorite. So watching all that industrial light and magic sorcery that they do. There's a director's commentary. So it's the director, the director Matthew Robbins and Guillermo del Toro talk because they're like best buddies. Oh, really? Yeah, and Guillermo del Toro, this is like one of his favorite movies. Like he's on the commentary and he's like, This is the best dragon I have ever seen. Shut the fuck up. Yes, yeah. No, this is like, I think, yeah, it might be. I mean, this this movie missed you. Sorry, Guillermo. It's okay. Like, I'm sure he's not, he doesn't care. He doesn't listen to this, maybe. I don't know. Maybe shout out, Guillermo. Put me in one of your movies. Hell yeah. I'll just be like a hag in the corner. I'll do whatever. I'll do whatever for a check. Yeah, no, this is, I feel like if you grew up in a certain generation, so yeah, if you're like a fantasy lover in your 40s andor 50s, this is gonna really hit with you. So again, like it coming out at the time when like advanced DD had come out and everyone's got their little dragon minis, and like this is to to a teen like that or a kid who would have seen that, this would have been pretty impactful, I think. But yeah, you know, you've you've been brain rotted by by the TikTok. And I have not. I'm just saying that it was it was silly to me, like when it's like the dragons flying by doing these little flybys. It's like you know that little thing's on a string and he's just getting dragged along and stuff. It's just so it's so funny. I thought the green screen effects looked really good. Why don't you, you know, being a first-time watcher, can you tell me like what happens in the beginning? We'll we'll split it up. Um, well, a group of townsfolk come to seek this master uh wizard or sorcerer or whatever to help them get rid of a dragon because people in their town are dying because the king implemented a lottery to offer a virgin specifically. I don't know if the dragon has a taste for that or like what the vibe is. Yeah, I mean, what is he doing to the virgin? Is it like the book that I read kind of a couple summers ago? Or is it something? I'm sorry, what book? The um The Dragon's Bride by none other than Katie Robert. Oh, right. Yes, I do remember The Dragon's Bride. I did read that and forgot about it. It cracked me up. I I I loved every second, honestly. Yeah, I don't think old Vermitrax is doing anything to these virgins other than roasting them like marshmallows and eating them up. Maybe, you know, maybe it's just like a fantasy trope. It's like, oh, we have a maiden with pure blood who has to be offered up. And yeah, I think they specifically say they, you know, the king has struck a deal with the dragon, so the dragon doesn't roast everybody. So he gets a virgin at every equinox, which we are, you know, we have just passed. Yes, the spring equinox and then the fall equinox, the autumn equinox. Uh, and and because he gets those offerings every year, he lets all the townspeople chill. So we get we get introduced to, I don't think, well, townsfolk, I think they're just like adventurers. So they come to the door of the sorcerer or wizard, Ulrich, who is played by Ralph Richardson, who is a legendary British actor of stage and screen, like has done hundreds and hundreds of plays and movies and is always known for sort of being like an eccentric guy. I think he would have played, you know, not to mention she who must not be named, but I think he would have played an excellent Dumbledore. Oh, okay. Do you know what I'm saying? Like he has that sort of like unhinged quality about him, but also like he's fair and grounded in a way. Uh, and then he has a very green young apprentice, apprentice, intern working for him. Peter McNichol, who plays Galen Bradwarden, which is the most DD character name that I've ever heard. Yeah. Uh Peter McNichol, who is. Do you recognize him? I think you would recognize him more. He has been in stuff. I don't actually. So he was in, I'm trying to think of things you would have seen him in Ghostbusters 2. Nope. But you've never seen Ghostbusters 2? No. Oh my god. All right. All right. We're all right. It's on the list. It's on the list. Um, how about Adam's Family Values? I would assume, yeah. I have seen it. Is that where they go to summer camp or something? Yeah, he's one of the camp counselors. Okay. Yeah. He's like, he's a really, really famous character actor. He works. He works. Yeah. I I like I remember as a teen kind of having like a crush on him because I just like, again, I fall for like a Luke Skywalker type. I like this innocent simp of a man. And he's because he seems harmless, you know? Yeah. Uh gentle. I like a gentleman. And yeah, he was on Allie McBeal. He he was in Sophie's Choice. Like he's just, yeah, he's in everything. This was his first movie. They literally picked him like out of the US theater circuit because this was like a British production, but the big execs at Disney were like, the kids aren't gonna want to see like a whole movie full of like crusty old British actors. Let's get some hot American hotties in here. So for their two like young leads, they have Peter McNichol as Galen, and they have Caitlin Clark as Valerian as we get to know her, who is presented to us as a boy. I want to know did you buy that in the beginning? I did. You did. That's cool. Okay, that's cool. I I remember being like re watching and being like, it's so apparent she's a girl. But I Guess I was curious as a first-time watcher, were you were you tricked? I was definitely tricked. I mean, like, I obviously as soon as they hit they do the pond scene, right? I was like, Oh, I know what's happening that this is a woman, but I was just like, Oh wow, okay. Yeah, no, I was totally tricked in the beginning. So, like, Valerian uh comes with this group, they want to recruit the wizard, Mr. Ulrich. You know, he's like, Okay, I'll I'll do my one last job here, not a big deal. Someone else shows up, and I quite he's just like, I don't know what his besides being the bad guy, I don't know why. Is he like working for the king? I'm assuming, like trying to get them to stop wanting to get rid of the dragon or that care, yeah. That character's name is Tyrion. Yes. And yeah, he's played by John Hallam, and he's like always known for playing like big baddies. And yeah, he just shows up because I guess he heard that like they were coming to find, like, of course, you're gonna go battle a dragon, you need to find a sorcerer. You need that mage because this the fighters aren't gonna be enough. No, so he definitely works for the king because the king likes this whole arrangement, yeah, and is fine, like he's not upset about the lottery. He made this lottery, he's obviously rigged it so he's not affected in any way, of course, and he's like, it's all good, it's all good because you know we're not bothered. So Tyrion is like, no, wait, don't kill this dragon. And so, what happens between Tyrion and Ulrich? Well, um, he calls to Galen to throw down his knife, his dagger, right? And then he just is like, Oh, I don't know if he was saying something like, Oh, if I die or something, then we know what's meant to be or whatever. I was just like, this is a long way of going about not wanting to go to work, just having someone stab you in the chest. Rather do that than have to go work this job for these people. Honestly, relatable. Sometimes, yeah. You're just like, let's just end it. I'm I'm good. I I've done enough in my time. I mean, when you get me now. Yeah, when you get to that age too, you're like, I just, I literally don't want to punch in one more day. No, I'm not doing this. Yeah, everyone's surprised because Ulrich challenges Tyrion to stab him and he's like, Yeah, you can't hurt me. But then Tyrion stabs him and he's dead. Much to the dismay of Galen and also his, how do I want to say his housekeeper guy who's played by Sidney Bromley? This character name is Hodge. Do you recognize that actor who played like the super old guy in the beginning? I feel like I do. He seems so familiar. And I don't know exactly like where. I feel like he's another person who probably works a lot, but he's he feels familiar to me, Mr. Hodge. Mr. Hodge was in your lowest rated movie of this podcast. Ever ending story? Yeah. So that's what I thought. So he would have appeared around the time when you met the luck dragon. Do you remember? Yep. Him and his wife. Yes, that's right. Yeah, he played uh Angiwook, like the little that little gnome guy. I wonder what his like his IMDB list of names. He's got Hodge, he's got Angiwook, he's got all these funny names. Of course, as I was watching this, so like upon rewatch, I I watched it like one and a half times. And at like the second time, I was like listening to the commentary, and I was going through like everybody's filmography, just because it this this is really like a treasure trove of experienced British actors, which I loved as a kid because it was like it was basically like going to see a play, yeah, and seeing like these really talented older actors too. I think that's very inspiring to see people like working in their like 60s, 70s, 80s. Like that's the thing. There's so many roles for like old crusty guys, wizards, yeah, you know, weirdos. And I'm just like, yeah, put me in. I love it. Put me in, coach. Everybody's gotta work. Yeah, no, this actor who plays Hodge, who's known professionally as Sidney Bromley, he's done like hundreds of again, just like Ralph Richardson, hundreds of plays and films. And just like, I love to see that. I'm just like, yeah, you need an old grandpa or like an old harbinger in town. Like, get away from here. Like, yeah, that's he's the guy. Hire him. Hire him. So yeah, uh, Ulrich is dead, everyone pieces out, and then what does, yeah, what does Galen get, you know, get in his head? Like, what does he decide to do? He decides to, I guess, take on what was left, the task that was left behind him from his his uh teacher. Sorry, the amulet that he gets. Does he take that off of Ulrich? Like, I forget how he does he just grab that out of a drawer and decide now's my time. Yeah, he just takes it. He's like basically like, Okay, my master's dead. I guess I have to pick up where he left off. So he takes there's a magic amulet, he takes all of his stuff. Hodge gathers up all of Ulrich's ashes. This is important. I have to mention this. He's he's gotta sweep up his magical ashes, and they decide to follow this dragon hunting party and be like, oh, by the way, I'm I'm the magic guy now.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Like he basically pulls a fast one and he's just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I for sure know what I'm doing because men don't have imposter syndrome. They'll just like get in there and do it. So let that be a less lesson to you. Just start before you're ready. Exactly. Now he's cocky, he he's he's got the power. So he decides to set out him and Hodge. He's like magically lifting the pack off of Hodge and taking it, like stripping him naked, which is so funny. I'm like, oh my god, leave this poor old man alone. Yeah, he's gotta he's showing his skills, he's like spinning an egg for no reason. He's showing that he knows, like, it seems like what he knows is sort of like close magic trickery. He's sort of like a David Blaine kind of he's kind of like Schmendrick. Yo, he is like Schmendrick. Yeah, that's like it's like the same thing. We have a slightly a mostly incompetent wizard character who's just there to fuck around and find out, baby. Fuck around and find out, yeah. And and much like last unicorn, also on a journey, like it's a quest. We're going off to find the dragon. So yeah, he joins the party headed to get the dragon, and they reveal pretty quickly that Valerian is not a boy. Yeah, it happens pretty fast. I think within the first like 25 minutes of the movie. Yeah, and for a film that's definitely I would call slowburn, where they don't show the dragon until the movie's like 65% done. I feel like I mean, I I I love this this romance arc personally. Um, the whole like girl raised as boy in a society that preys on women thing really hit with me as a teen. I was like, oh, that's one way to do it. Yeah, you know. Yeah, it's it was like I'm there's a lot of like, I don't, I don't think that the filmmakers were trying to do this, but I think there's a lot of like transgender subtext to this as well. Just sort of like, you know, just the idea of like being raised as something else, and then and then I don't dropping that. Like, and that's the thing too. Like when she when Valerian, I think it's interesting too. They never call her Valeria. Yeah, they know it's she's Valerian. That's it. I I feel like when she comes out later, like once she gets revealed as a girl and then she starts wearing dresses. I feel like that happens with like there's not any time lapse. No, there's like no pushback from the community, right? Which I which I think is interesting that they didn't because I feel like usually when people do stuff like that in movies, there's a lot of pushback or uh prejudice from people. You like you never see anybody give her a hard time. The only thing that's different now is like now, okay, she's really a girl, she should like go in the line. Yeah, yeah. Like now she might potentially be dragon food. And every like everybody seems like okay with that. I don't know. It's it's interesting. Yeah, you never you never get any weirdness from her her traveling companions that they're just like very accepting in this time. Yeah, I I kind of I kind of love it. I don't know. It's I think it's interesting and it's weird. How did you feel? Yeah, how did you feel about Valerian and all that stuff? I'm curious. Um, I loved the reveal uh in the lake, because obviously um when Galen jumps in and you know, she's like, I prefer to bathe alone, thanks, you know. There's a scene in one of my favorite Disney movies. Like, if I had to pick a Disney princess, it's Mulan, sure, where she does like the gender swapping. Yeah. And I was like, oh shit, ass and titties in the lake, yeah, all kinds of stuff. And so um, yeah, very quickly is revealed. And I actually really liked, I think her character and the princess, who we'll get to in a little bit, yeah, are my favorites. So um, I mean, probably the only two real like women like title cards in the movie, but um, yeah, no, I really, really enjoyed Valerian and I liked how um her relationship with her dad. Obviously, it's like, you know, it's kind of relatively close knit and he did everything in his power to protect her, which is a very sweet sentiment. Um, I thought there was one person who pushed back against her. It was like another townsfolk being like, oh, well, something, something. Like now, now she's now she's dragging food, I guess, kind of thing. Um, yeah, oh yeah. I think I remember that. Yeah, it's like there's always an asshole, right? But I feel like, yeah, when that's all revealed and they get into town and she's like, I'm gonna wear a dress now. Now we're gonna dance in the square. And you can see that like her and Galen have a little something, something going on. Right. Um, yeah, maybe that's why she instantly decided to embrace her femininity again because she's like, I have a potential partner, you know. I can't, we can't be gay in this time of you know, religious persecution. Well, yeah, I think and like the time when this is supposed to take place, I think they they placed it very specifically at like the end of the Roman Empire when Christianity was beginning to take over Europe and you get glimpses of that in the movie. It's kind of like an anti-religious movie. I think that's why I love it a lot too. It's like much like you know, you see in like Game of Thrones in Conan the Barbarian, they they kind of touch on that too. It's like, oh, we have like a different cult now. It's like the cult of the cult of the cross and stuff like that. And it and it will not save you in the end, and it will not save you in the end, and they take credit for everything that the pagans did, which they hit that very hard towards the end. I don't want to jump ahead, but I I love that. Like this movie is sort of like a big picture idea, really gets me because I was just like, oh, right, like everything was pagan, and there was like this special period, especially in Europe at the time, and you know, the the island that became the United Kingdom. It was so pagan. Right. I thought though, sorry to jump in. No, no, go ahead, go ahead. I know obviously with the lottery, you would have to be a virgin. So why aren't there people out there just like getting it in really quick, being like, I'm unclean. Oh no, guess you gotta live. That's yeah, I that's a great point that you bring up. Yeah, you you think that people would just be fucking left and right to like right industry. They're just like, look, uh and like and then also back then, yeah, you only lived till you were like 40 or whatever. So, you know, right. And because Valerian had potentially a partner with Galen, if she were to say I'm not a virgin anymore, you could just be like, Well, guess what, we're married now, you know, like it's very it's very much like, and I I bring this up because the director Matthew Robbins did bring this up in the commentary that when they were writing the screenplay, they were thinking a lot of the Vietnam War. Oh shit. And how poor people, working class people get sent away to kill other working class people and die, and rich people get to dodge the draft, much like many, many people in power that we know nowadays. Um, and how that's unfair. And that's what they were, you know. Again, they were men who were born in the 40s, it would have been like 40s or 50s, like growing up in the 60s, and then seeing all that happen in the 70s. And that's why like I feel that to go on too much of a tangent, so much of like that era of Dungeons and Dragons and like dark fantasy is and like why Lord of the Rings like popped off in the 70s is because there was so much dark shit happening, and it's like this response to real life war and geopolitical tension, which is why I feel why it's having a resurgence now, yeah, because we're going through the same shit yet again. Time is a flat circle, it really is though. Yeah, like people are talking, like, oh, are you nervous about like nuclear winter and blah blah blah? It's like, bro, I've been prepping for this since the fucking 80s. I'm ready. I I know how to handle this. And you know what? If that big white light shines in the sky, I'm gonna just starfish right into it. I grew up in the best time. I saw some cool shit. I uh yeah, let's just go. You're like, I saw Dragon Master, Dragon Master. I'm sorry, I was gonna say done Beastmaster. Yeah, Beastmaster. Yeah, just combine the two, just combine them at this point. Uh, Beastmaster and Dragon Slayer and all of these movies. You're like, I'm good. I'm good to go. Yeah, we know we know how to we know how to handle events like this where there are rich men in power who are trying to exploit the common folk, and that's yeah, that's a big theme that runs through this. Yeah. So when they get to town and uh Valerian and Galen are just like getting settled, Valerian starts like wearing some dresses. We get like a little cute like town moment before like we go see the dragon, I think. Yeah, we see like there's a king, he's in power, he seems like a real piece of work. Wait, no, I think before that he they they go and closes the cave or something. Yes, that happens before. You are correct, and yeah, even before that, we get a little taste of the dragon because we see one of the actual offerings, offerings, which is a very, I think is a very good scene. Like how to introduce it. Like, how did you feel about like when you see the that first virgin like getting sacrificed? That too, that I really liked, and I had high hopes for what beast I was about to see later in the movie. But the scene, like where she's struggling to like get out of the chains, her wrists are bleeding. Yeah, it's it's rough. It's a kid's movie. This is it's a kid's movie, was marketed to children. Oh my god, yeah. Um, she thought she escaped, you know. Yep. And here comes the big chicken foot coming down to you know, say, nope, you're my dinner tonight. So uh yeah, she gets completely roasted by that dragon. Yeah, I think the sound design of the scene. I mean, of course, yeah, you get little glimpses of Burmathrax. Well, there's like a lion roar. I think when they did, I think when they made the noise that the dragon made, I think they did the thing where they mixed like seven different animals together, which I think, I mean, this I think the sound design is cool. I love the sound before he does his fire breath, classic dragon move. You hear almost like, I don't even know how to say it's like it's like bellows. Like you you hear him breathe. Yeah, and then she just gets roasted and toasted like a like a little marshmallow on a stick. Yeah, in her white dress. In her white dress. I mean, it's yeah, it's a super cool scene. So yeah, we we do see that before they go into town. Galen goes to the dragon lair, does a little cheap magic, basically closes the cave door and then goes to town is like, I'm a hero. I I didn't see the dragon, but guess it's not a problem. LOL. Well, to be fair, he does ask if there's multiple entrances, and Valerian's like, isn't one enough? Like, I guess, you know? Yeah, no, it's it's not planned well, but it's very like it really gives, like, okay, I I'm just trying to do this job quick and dirty to impress everybody. We've all done it. Yeah, we've all you're just like, okay, let me just do a slapdash job, go to town, yay, I'm the hero. Yeah, when they get to town after like a moment of reprieve and fun, he has to go face the king, and the king is like, What did you do? Also, like, why did why first of all, why did you try to kill this dragon? That was dumb. And you he has a really great line. I'm forgetting what it is, but it's basically like, do you not think of like the consequences of your actions or something? Like, just like you just don't think of anything. So, like, even though we know this king is like corrupt and shitty, it's it's like fun to see that standoff, I think. And uh everyone is just like, Well, put Galen in prison, put him in the dungeon. We got a dragon, he now hears your dungeon. Yeah, we just do it in reverse, and in the dungeon, he meets Princess Elspeth. Yep, Princess Elspeth, who's who's a little baddie, honestly. She is, yeah. And um, I really, really enjoyed her a lot just because of what I'm sure we're gonna talk about now. But um, she is a baddie, she's got like she's kind of a goth baddie because she's doesn't she wear black a lot? Like, I feel like she's wearing black. I just yeah, I might be wearing gold when we first see her, and then she wears black later. Yeah, she might wear black when she like basically sacrifices herself, but she's I think she's wearing yeah, lighter colors when we first meet her. I just remember her hair, yeah, flowing. She's got long, luscious locks, and she's like woke, you know. Princess Elspeth, she's woke, and she's been she's been drinking that liberal Kool-Aid. And I love her. Yeah, she's uh she's like, I think honestly, in a genre that tends to be male dominated, we have two female characters in this who have a lot of agency, and like whether they live or die, like it's really their choice, and like no one takes that away from them. So I do love that because like Princess Elspeth is talking with Galen in the dungeon. She's like, you know, obviously fascinated by this young mage, and he tells her of the lottery, right? And he's like, you know, this is rigged, and she's like, No, my yeah, yeah. She's like, No, my father's like a good just man, and then she goes to confront him, and it's like she meets she meets her father in his quarters and he's trying to do alchemy, which is like there's all these little like magic things in this that are kind of throwaway. I love the screenplay because they're not like, Well, he's doing this now. Like they just walk, he's trying to turn lead into gold, yeah, and he's like burning himself. And I'm just like, that was like an obsession for people back then. They were like everyone wanted to make shit into gold, and they just loved it. Um, but yeah, she confronts him and she's like, Is my name in there too? Because it should be. Yeah, I'm no different than anyone else, father. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hush your mouth. Daddy's working. Daddy's daddy's trying to do alchemy here. Okay, it's fine. You think this castle pays for itself? Exactly. Oh my god, totally. Like big boomer parent energy. Yeah. It's like, you don't know not that I'm not using the tax money for this entire thing, but whatever. A hundred percent. Yeah, I love, yeah, the king has such a cool name too. I wrote I did write like name notes because again, this is this is like a a top-tier screenplay for me. Yeah, the the king's name, who's played by Peter Eyre, who was like another great, it's still alive. Oh my god. I'm just looking at the wiki right now. I I reference Wikipedia a lot, listeners. Uh yeah, no, it's played by Peter Iyer and his name is King Cassiodorus Ulfil Ulphilus? Let me say that again. King Cassiodorus Ulphilius. Give your kids that, people. Cassiodorus is insane. Like, that's that's next level. That's like your dungeon master looking around the room. They're like, and your players are like, so what was the name of the king? And you're looking around and you see Like a Cassio keyboard, and you're like his name was Cassiodorus, King Cassiodorus. Like, look at the look at the uh piano, then the door. Yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly. No, that's that's that's how DD names are made. Because, like, you plan, of course, but they're always gonna your players are always gonna be like, What's this guy's name? And you're like, you have no idea. I'm not gonna break the immersion, I'm gonna tell you a made-up name on the spot, and you're gonna think I wrote that. That's the secret. We're all falling upward through life, much like Galen. My I I can make one up right now. It's like Kerbuk Skull Ram. Kulbookskaram, no, Ker book, Sir Ker Book, Sir Kerr Book, yeah. Sure, that works. Of skull ram. Of skull ram, great. I love it. I have a visual in my head. He's a big bad guy with uh some heavy armor on. Yeah, I love that. See, maybe you should DM our next campaign. I would love to try. It's a lot of planning, or you can just wing it. All you gotta all you gotta do is know how you want things to end. That's it. Just write a little story and and we'll play with it. Uh, I want to play D D again. This movie just reminded me how much I miss it. I haven't played. I was gonna say this movie makes me really think about Renfair and how uh I really just want to go. It it is very Renfair. Yeah, it's DD. It's like, you know, it's getting to the time. And every year I'm just like, will I go again this year? I need to meet more people who are into fair as much as I am in the way that I'm into fair. And I mean, you can't be coming in jeans, motherfucker. No, I need you to come correct. I don't care if you just want to wear a peasant top and put a peasant top and some leggings and comfy shoes. Fine. Fine. Put a little flower in your hair, but like make an effort, make a fucking effort. I don't care. You don't need to spend here's the thing: you see things online, you're just like, I don't have the money for the all this expensive cosplay. You don't need money, you can thrift everything. And honestly, it's cooler because people back then they had no money neither. That's right. Be a real peasant, go to rent fair, yeah. Real exactly, just get some some nice, simple clothes. The c just a sidebar for a second, the costumes in this, I think, are really good. They were made by Anthony Mendelssohn, and he uh did a lot of like research on early middle ages. So, like everything, I don't know if you noticed, like all the clothes were very like roughly stitched. Like you see it in the capes, I think. Like Valerian has a cape towards the end. It's like you just see like big loops. Like they didn't, they didn't have like fine needles to sew things, and everything was dyed with vegetable dye. Oh, nice, yeah. So that's why everything's kind of like plain, muted, and muted, yeah, because they wouldn't have had big like bright. You see, like that's the thing, like going back to Game of Thrones quickly. When you see somebody in like a purple gown, I'm like, or like some of the clothes that like Daenerys wears, especially at the end. Like, I don't know if you remember with like a aqua green like pant suit. She had she had that. She also like towards the end, she had this cape that looks like white dragon scales, like towards the end, and they would have been had to been like individually stitched. So it looks like scales and it also looks like she's wearing like feminine armor. It like broke my brain when I saw it. Uh, Game of Thrones does like incredible, like just incredible like world building in their costumes alone. Yeah. Shout out, Game of Thrones. Shout out, Game of Thrones. Finish that book. Everything but the last season. Shout out. Shout out. Uh shout out Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Yeah, that rocked. I loved it. So yeah, uh, sorry, what happens? Oh, so yeah, Galen's in the dungeon. Princess is like WTF might. What you mean there's a lottery?

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Oh papa, what you mean there's a lottery? I want to be in that too.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

The tiles of fate. Yes, the tiles of fate. So, yeah, so she basically rigs the lottery to have every single tile in the lottery be her name because she realizes her father never put her name in. And yeah, she's like stronger than I would ever be. She's just like, Yeah, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do it for the love of God and country. Yeah, she's like a real patriot. So fucking cool. Like, how metal is that to put her name on all of the tiles? Being like, Oh, I'm being chosen today. Yeah, no, she chooses her own fate. She feels like it is her job as a public servant to serve the people, which is literally their job. Yeah, so the king, Cassiodorus, he's taken Galen's magical amulet and he's so desperate, he gives it back to Galen because he's like, My daughter is like basically committing suicide. Can you? Sorry about all that stuff before. Could you actually go kill the dragon? He's like, actually, I need you to get back out there. Yeah, he's like, I take everything back, go do it. Because also, I think the dragon at this point, oh, right. The dragon has busted out of the cave and he's pissed. Yeah, like he busts out, he basically makes an earthquake happen and it's very apocalyptic feeling. And they're like burning, he starts burnating the countryside. Okay, okay. When we were when we were watching this, when we were watching this, Ryan and I, my husband and I, um, there was that scene, and Ryan said burninating all the peasants like Trogdor. And I said, I will bet you $20. Melanie mentions Trogdor during this podcast. Oh, yeah. There it comes. I didn't even write a note. It's just in my soul. It's so organic though, because he literally burninates all of the the countryside and the peasants burninating other people. And they're thatched roof cottages. Yeah, that's actually what he did. I'm like, why is there all this thatch? Like, why do people make houses out of straw? Because it's like the best roof you could possibly ever have. Except when there's a dragon. Yeah, that's yeah. It's not fireproof. No, you need a house of pure stone. That's why people built castles, and that's why the castles are still there. All these castles that they used, I think they shot in Wales and Scotland. So they're using like, you know, and they also shot up Pinewood Studios, which is like where like tons of other movies we've talked about have been filmed. Uh yeah, that's like I was like, where are they where are all these rocks? It's like, oh, they're they're in the Isle of Sky in Scotland. I was like, I want to go even more now. Hell yeah. I'm obsessed. Yeah, so yeah, King is like, go go take care of this dragon for real. So we get like a classic, I'll let you describe this part, a classic sort of gathering supplies montage in uh in fantasy movies. So he has to get his weapon. Yeah, he's like uh Valerian's dad is a blacksmith, and he's like, hey, blacksmith, can you make a weapon? I'm like, what the fuck else is he gonna do? You know, of course he's gonna make a weapon and other things too. But I'm just like, yeah, let's go. So he makes a giant like spear for him. They forge a huge spear. Uh-huh. Um, and then Galen basically is ready to go. They I like when he goes in this in the cave this time because it's kind of like an ASMR cave. It's very like you hear all the little like shale uh clicking noises and the drips and the this. It's like just so sensory. I really enjoyed that. Yes, it's it's very, yeah, it's it's a very vibey cave. It is a very vibey cave, and then he gets further in and the dragons- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before that, you for you you missed the most important part. The baby dragons, no, no, no, no, no. He gets a spear, what else does he get? This is like the most important thing that he gets. Um no, for real. You you've gotta know this. It comes up in the battle a lot. If it wasn't for this thing, he would have fucking died, is all I gotta say. Besides the amulet, he has his amulet, he gets a spear, and then the third thing he gets from Valerian, what does Valerian give him? Her skin bad. We're gonna cut that. Cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that. Melanie, she gets all the dragon scales for him that are left outside. Oh, that's right. She makes him a beautiful uh shield out of dragon scale. If it wasn't for that fucking dragon skin shield, he would have been roasted like a marshmallow, too. True. So yeah, so he's got his, yeah, you're we have all the things. We have a necklace, we have a spear, which I think is like a a practical choice. Like I think like most fantasy movies would just give him a sword. Right. But yeah, he's got his spear, he's got his shield. Like you said, he goes into the cave. He it's a it's a it's a vibey cave. We see these baby dragons. They look like little bulldogs, they're actually so cute. Do you did you love the baby dragon puppets? I did. I did. I would I would give them a hug. They kind of remind me of our uh family, not our family, but in the family, with there's a bulldog named Mabel. Kind of looks like Mabel. Yeah, it's uh yeah, I I think they're adorable. I love them. I get I get sad that he has to murder them, yeah. That part makes me really sad. And I know they're supposed to be evil, right? But how do they know? They're little, but um, yeah, the dragon blows a vape cloud at him while he's in the cave. Yeah, I mean, he has a lot of fire breath, to be fair. Uh, like he's it's it's just like non-stop fire, and like the first time he goes after him, he fails. I'm trying to think, like, when does Elspeth sacrifice herself? Like that's the thing about the pacing of this movie. It's very, it's like very languidly paced, and like all this stuff happens, and you're just like, all right, does this happen before this? Yeah, especially since like they confront the dragons several times. So in my mind, try just trying to like remember it, I'm like, so what happens when? Like, what's happening? Because Elspeth, who she she basically insists that like they sacrifice her anyway, and even though Galen tries to free her, she runs right into the cave and she gets at by those baby dragons, which is so crazy that that happens. I I actually forgot that it happened. I was like, all right, Elspeth fucking dies, and she's being nommed on by these little bulldog baby dragons. Um nom nom. So that happens first, yeah. Of course, and then he goes in, right? And he has to Galen also has to like kill Tyrion, who's like, you know, who shows up wanting to pick a fight at the wrong time. It's like, now's not the time, Tyrion. Okay, we're doing other things. The king has agreed that it's okay for me to do this job. I've been officially contracted, so fuck off. Yeah, Tyrion is like like I feel like they just wrote him in there for some extra muscle and conflict. Like, if it wasn't for him, that it would be just too easy. But like he's there to like he he's he's there just to cause problems, basically. So, yeah, so Tyrion's dead, Elspeth's dead, baby dragons now are dead, everybody's yeah, I know. I'm so sad. We get uh towards the end, we get a little love scene, yeah, romance from Valerian and Galen. And I feel like if it wasn't a ch a children's movie, this could have been so much better. Yeah, for real. Like it could have been rated R. I'm just kidding. Well, yeah, it's like going back to the romantic trope of like she's like, Oh, I'm in the lottery because I'm a virgin, wink wink. Like she's looking at him like, you know, you wanna you wanna fix my problem or you wanna you wanna fix it with your magic wand? Wizard boy. Uh if he gets a haircut, yeah. It's sort of like implied that they just like kiss, and I'm like, well, she's still a virgin, unless he like finger bangs her real quick on that rock. Like what would disqualify you? Yeah, like virginhood. Do you need do you need to be dicked down literally? Like, what is you know, what is virginity? Right. It's a patriarchal concept anyway. Like, like this whole idea of like your virginity being valuable, it's so gross and weird. Uh yeah, what would what would like I guess like if you, you know, are technically deflowered, to put it lightly. Sure. But like the fact that like that would be that would be a deal breaker for old vermithrax is kind of weird. You'd think that he would probably like enjoy something that has a little different flavor on it every once in a while. He's like, he's like, I smelled penis on you. It's like uh in the in the Trixie and Katia um review of like Dolly Parton's heart strings. The whole hallway smells like cum. Yes, oh my god, yeah, yeah. I I smell, I smell jizz, I smell jism on this rock. I know y'all been boning, and I will not eat that. You know what, listeners, you come to us because there are a lot of podcasts with with uh intellectual discourse about films. You come to you come to VHS sisters to hear about cum. To hear about to hear about straight up fucking insert sponsor here, insert spot. Yes, somebody give us some money. All right, right. I mean, we're just we're just ripping here, probably as usual. Always ripping. So anyway, it's implied that like Valerian's cool, her and her and Galen are a thing. There's like a little jealousy moment because she's like, Oh, you love that princess. This is like before the this is before the princess dies. Right. And he's like, I don't love her, I love you. And I'm like, Oh, I love that. So nice. Trying to think like how it kind of wraps up the movie. Do you remember? Well, our our man makes a return, Mr. Mr. Ulrich. Yeah, well, that's later. So, like, yeah, Gay Galen goes into the cave where Elspeth has run into. He finds the young dragons feasting, he slays them, he wounds Vermitrax, but like it's only, you know, like he pokes him, only Valerian's shield basically ensures that he does not die. And it's so funny, like when Vermithrax is roasting him in the cave. I'm just like, even with that shield, like his hair is not singed at all. Right. I was like, maybe the amulet is also giving him sort of protection. I think so. Yeah, so he fails to kill Vermitrax, and then you know, him, Galen and Valerian are like, let's get out of here. This place sucks. Yeah, we're leaving. So they have a moment where it's like, okay, let's just like peace out and let this dragon decimate this community. It's not our problem, not anymore. But like you leave, but like you said, he gets a vision in the water. Yeah. So what is what does he see? What what what what does he realize that his master did? This is kind of like the twist. It's kind of like he put himself in the amulet. Well, he it's implied that old, oh, he set this up so he didn't have to make the journey. Old Ulrich was so fucking lazy and old and tired, he could not do that long work commute. So he's like, you know what? Kill me, take my ashes with you. You carry me to work and then resurrect me in the dragon cave. Like the level of the the level that this man went to to not get his steps in, is all I'm saying. We know plenty of people who would do the same. Like you, he knew he could not make this journey. Yeah, no, he he he would have had to cross many mountains to get there. So so Galen resurrects him by throwing his ashes in this dragon pond in the cave. And I think it's a very cool effect, like where he's resurrected. There's all this like green lights, he's resurrected, you know, sort of like Jesus. Happy Easter, everyone. Yes. Uh is this our Easter movie? This might be. Wow. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, so he gets resurrected, and you basically get the idea that, like, okay, he doesn't have much time. He's just here to like do one job. So he's like, here's my amulet. Use use it when the time is right. Break it. I'm gonna go challenge this dragon. So, so you describe, yeah, that there's like a big battle that ends. Like, can you describe what happens during the battle narratively? As if you were as if you were a DM in a Dungeons and Dragons campaign. Describe to me what Ulrich does to summon the dragon vermithrax. I was saying, to be fair, you have seen this movie more times than I have. Yeah, but just rip it, you know. If I had to rip it, I would say he's like almost like taunting him. And the dragon comes out. Describe location first. Always describe location first. Well, they're they're on the mountain that's by the dragon. Yeah, he's on the mountain, and then what does he do with his magical wizard powers? I don't know. What does he do? He summons a storm, okay? So lightning, he's got lightning magic, thunder, lightning, clouds, and like you said, he basically calls the dragon out and is taunting him. He's like, Come and get me, I'm here, you know, sort of like a predator kind of moment when he's like, Come, come get me now. Come now, I'm here. That's Ulrich as Predator. Thank you very much. Uh, I am off, I am taking any job you want to give me. So, so yeah, he saw he summons lightning and fire and rain, and then Vermitrax comes to get him, and he, you know, would you say he's trying to like dive bomb him F16 style?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

He's flying back and forth on the string, the the little the little dragon puppets flinging back and forth. I think it looks good. I laughed so much. Understand this is so disrespectful that you aren't in love with this. I don't understand. So while while the dragon's causing havoc and Ulrich's out there, you know, giving him his best shot. Um, Galen and Valerian are kind of going back and forth on like when to break this amulet, and she's like ready to smash it. And he's like, No, no, not no, no. And then um, is it I think that so the dragon comes back and he picks up Ulrich? He snatches him up like an eagle. Chicken foot, yeah. This chicken, you're obsessed with this chicken foot. It looks like a pickled chicken foot. Oh my god. Yeah, he snatches him up, and then Galen knows that's the moment because he knows that Ulrich's magic is linked to this magic amulet. So he knows once he destroys the amulet, then Ulrich is gonna go. So he basically like kamikaze him. Yeah, he sets up a bomb. He sets up a bomb blows up. They blow up this dragon, it's so gory. It's like you see the dragon afterward, like all the guts and stuff, slop and the guts and the yeah, and the bones, like the meat had just slid off the rib cage so quickly, he decomposed so quickly. Probably stinks. I think there's a couple cool things about this. I think there's a lot of talk of like the era of magic ending in this, and it's it's supposed to like this whole time period is like this is when magic ends. Like this whole idea that like there once was magic everywhere, and there were dragons, and there used to be dragons on this earth until we forgot about them. I think about that all the time. I'm like, do you think they ever find dinosaur bones that are really dragons and we just don't know it? I'm sure. I think about shit like that all the time. This is why this is why I was in a special ed class and you were not. Okay. This is because normal I wasn't I was in special math. I was in like the slow math. Yeah, it's not like special education, it's just like they call it concepts. It's like a step below like regular pace because I'm like, I'm not doing fucking algebra too. I'm over it. Yeah, that might just be your ADHD. I just don't have great comprehension for advanced formulas that doesn't that doesn't tick with my style, my right, my right sided brain or whatever. Um, I forgot to mention though, really quick after like before when Ulrich comes back to life, I wrote a note because I thought it was so funny. He wakes from the spirit realm and he's like talking to Galen about like, hey, do you have any food? Yes. You're like, yo, you got a sandwich. I just like reanimated. Yeah, he I love his character. Yeah, I was like, you're dead, you know, you're like undead. I'm like, do you want food? Are you really that hungry? I guess. I mean, if you've been dead uh at this point a couple weeks, right? Yeah, I guess you're like, I got a craving for like a hoagie. I mean, it's back in those days, you know, what would you what would you have had? A turkey leg. They didn't have turkeys in England back then. That's a new world, a new world food. So that's a pheasant, you would have had a duck, a goose, yeah. People lamb. People used to have geese a lot. They used to eat like anything though. Yeah, I'm good on that. And like medieval diets, mostly vegetarian because they like it was harder to find, like harder to hunt. Um, it's not impossible, but it wasn't like frequent. Not only hard to hunt, but like all the rich people own the land, and you couldn't like people would be put to death all the time because it's like you can't shoot a deer on like the king's land. It's like we're starving, uh right. Like it's yeah, the whole whatever. We're gonna don't make me go on a whole UK history tangent. I will do it. Uh uh, but yeah, so dragon dies, explodes onto the ground, and then day breaks. And wait, I didn't I didn't go up. Sorry, I have to backpedal because I didn't finish my tangent yet. Oh my bad. Yeah, it's okay. So, yeah, the whole idea that like this is like the end of days of magic, and it's alluded to that when the magicians die, the dragons die, and when the magic leaves the land, so do the dragons. So, like, there's this symbiotic relationship between the sorcerers and the dragons, and it's mentioned more than once. So, I think it's really fucking cool that Ulrich and Vermathrax die together, yeah. Because they kind of have to, you know. So that was a cool thing. And then the second cool thing before we talk about the end end and give our rating is when the dragon falls out of the sky, and I was like seeing the rib cage on the ground. I was like, why don't they just build a house out of that? You could parts of it. Okay, so yeah, what happens in the end? The end is where everybody's coming to look at the dragon, yep, and the king comes out of the carriage and takes his sword, puts it on the dragon, and like, yay, the king has banished the dragon. Yep, it's fucking stupid. I'm like, oh my god. And then uh I think Galen obviously he doesn't have any powers anymore. I'm assuming all that was from the amulet. I mean, he does at the end. Do you remember what happens at the very end? Well, yeah. So him and Valerian are like, okay, we're blowing this pop stand, we're getting out of here, and they're walking away. And as they're going through like a plane, like a big mountain pass or whatever, like after the mountain through the plane, they're like, Oh, I wish we had a horse, and then a horse appears, which is like the coolest thing. Yeah, it is nice, it is very nice, and then uh yeah, they they they ride off into the sunset. Yeah, I think I think it's sort of implied that Galen has inherited some power from the amulet. Like he has, he definitely has powers. Okay. And now, so like once he he basically manifests, right? He's like, I wish I had this, and then they get a horse instantly. So yeah, we it's it kind of sets you up for I mean, I wouldn't even say it sets you up for a sequel. Like it's it's a pretty like airtight kind of story. Like, I guess we don't need to know what happens after. Um, what do you give this movie rating wise? So, because I liked a lot of the themes, I liked um the baby dragon. Okay, and I really love the female characters of this. I give it a solid C. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's kind of a low rating, but like C C plus. C plus? Yeah. What did you not like about it? I didn't like the dragon. Insane. Uh a lot of the effects definitely took me out in a in an enjoyable way, like almost in like in a funny way. To me, it read as like a gag movie, even though I know that wasn't really the point. Um, but yeah, I I liked I liked a lot of it, but I just didn't fall fully in love with it. Will I watch it again? Sure. Is it on my list? Not necessarily. So I would say C plus. C plus. So you would you rate it? I I would give it a B plus. Okay. Um, or sometimes an A minus. Okay. I when is it sometimes? If I'm in that fantasy mood, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like you ever get in a fantasy mood and it's like again, you're like Renfair, D D. I want to play BG3, I want to be in this world. Like sometimes, like the these kinds of movies hit a little harder. I think maybe if you're looking for escapism, if you're in the mood to escape this uh hell planet that we currently live on, I feel like, yeah, you know what, I'm gonna give it an A minus. Um, and I I have cognitive bias again. This is probably my first like adult fantasy, apart from like Star Wars, which people would argue it it's sci-fi. I disagree. I I think the original Star Wars movies are fantasy, set in space. Okay, space fantasy. It's space, it is, it's a space opera, it's space fantasy. Yeah, no, sci-fi is more like in the future, right? This is this this is more like a faraway land with like different creatures. Like you're gonna look at Jabba the Hutt and Ewoks and be like, okay, this isn't a fantasy, like this is clearly a fantasy. Um, I was just looking real quick at our notes to see how this movie uh ranks compared to other. So you're giving this a C. I am so you give this movie the same rating as Labyrinth. Yes. Okay, it's like on the same par with Labyrinth, but you like it better than Shakespeare and Love. Yes, you like it better than Moulin Rouge, of course. You like it better than Pet Cemetery, yeah. Fuck Pet Cemetery and what else? And the okay, this is a pretty close and theme kind of movie. How would you compare this to Black Cauldron? You like it better or worse, or about the same? I would say about the same, but I do like this one perhaps a little bit better. Okay, so you give it a C then. Yeah. Because you gave it because it's more adult, and I know obviously, like Black Cauldron's a cartoon, and I do enjoy cartoons, but yeah, my real bright star of Black Cauldron was just Hen Wynn. Yeah, you love a like, yeah. This move would if this movie had like a cute little pig in it. I also would say if the main male character was super hot, no offense. Uh, I see what's going on. You Melanie, are you are you just do you like does a guy I want to be entertained? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but like, why is your taste in men's so vanilla? Like, is it vanilla? Is it does every guy this guy reads vanilla? Well, he's definitely unconventional looking. I get it. I I understand why you wouldn't be attracted to him. I'm just saying, does every fantasy hero need to look like Henry Cavill? No, like, do you like and any guys? Have you ever liked kind of a goofy looking guy? Sure, sure. Can I think of one off the top of my head? No, name name them, name them and rank them right now. Name them. Goofy guy. I'm just thinking, okay, like I'm thinking of sorry, we're gonna go on a tangent real quick. Where are my celeb crushes? I tried, just name some. I I'm gonna I'm gonna pick from VHS Sisters movies only. So who I who I would consider unconventional leading men, Richard Dreyfus and Jaws. He's hot, hot, yeah. Okay, um, we're for the captain though. Uh why do you like these old men? He's like 60. I mean, I'm not saying like at that time, but you know, I think I like his uh his depth. All right, all right. How about I'm trying to think, other unconventional, like going through. I'm like, yeah, what about Anthony Hopkins and Bram Stoker's Dracula? Sure, why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially as Hannibal Lecter. Uh, what about you know, David Bowie in Labyrinth? Not in Labyrinth, just like in uh in other things, in other things. Yeah, whenever you watch uh Twin Peaks Fire Walk with me, you're gonna have a different idea. But we have to get you to watch the show first. That's a whole different side project. A lot of stuff to watch. Um, all right, you know, I'll I accept it. I accept it. Uh, it was a C for you. That's fine. They can't all be winners, but it is it is an essential 80s dark fantasy watch. And now that we've we've watched this, I'm thinking of other like classics. I'm like, all right, we gotta watch Beastmaster. Yeah, I feel like that's a summer, it's like a summer blockbuster. It is a fantasy movie, but it's like, yeah, we're gonna come up for some cool themes for summer. So uh it's you want to talk about pets? You want to talk about motherfucking pets? It's gonna give me everything I can already tell. I think you're gonna enjoy the amount of pets that are in Beastmaster more so than you enjoy the dragon in Dragon Slayer. Correct. Well, we we got another fantasy offering for you next week. Anything to say before we take off for today? No, just love dragons, not this one. All right, well, we'll see you next time. All right, bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of VHS Sisters. We hope you've had a fun and cozy time. Please consider liking, leaving a review, and following us on your podcast platform of choice. If you'd like to chat with us, please email us at VHS Sisters Podcast at gmail.com. Love you. Bye. That's it.