Don't Even Bother

#3: Dialogue in a Political Divide: How to Talk Without Losing Each Other

• Episode 3

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0:00 | 52:23

Talking about politics feels harder than ever — and avoiding it completely isn’t working either.

We're exploring what it actually means to have productive dialogue in a political divide — without burning bridges, shutting down, or turning every conversation into a debate.

We talk about listening versus reacting, why conversations break down so quickly, and how social media, sound bites, and identity politics have made nuance feel impossible. From family dinners to friendships and workplaces, we unpack how disagreement became personal — and what it takes to communicate across differences with clarity and respect.

This episode isn’t about changing minds. It’s about keeping conversations human in a world that rewards outrage over understanding.

If you’re tired of polarization, this conversation is for you.

00:00  Why Political Conversations Feel Impossible
03:45  What We Mean by “Dialogue”
08:20  Why Disagreement Became Personal
13:40  Social Media and the Breakdown of Nuance
19:10  Listening vs Reacting
24:35  Family, Friends, and Political Tension
30:05  When to Engage and When to Step Back
35:50  Communicating Without Escalating
41:30  Respect, Boundaries, and Curiosity
47:15  What Productive Dialogue Actually Looks Like
51:10  Final Thoughts on Staying Human

Follow us on Instagram, YouTube, & TikTok @dontevenbotherpod, email us at dontevenbotherpodcast@gmail.com, & share with your cool friends :)

speaker:

Don't even bother.

megan:

I'm gonna start giggling if you don't start

katiuscia:

this. I know, I know. Okay. So listen, I have had for probably years now, but what I'm finding is really coming to light and being. Very disturbing on many levels because now it's not just on the bigger picture, it's come straight to home. Over the years, that is the political attitudes across the board, elected officials. Never in my lifetime. Before, maybe the last 12, 10 to 12 years. Never do. I remember politicians being able to get on TV and go campaign and say how much they hate the president, how terrible the president is, how terrible the voters and supporters of the president are never in my life. Also, I think what's most important, just to make a first big statement of. Your first amendment right to speech is a gift and a privilege as an American. So the fact that they're even able to go out and say all those things is a beautiful gift, thankfully, because you are an American.

megan:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

you can do it. If you were in any other country, you could not do that. Absolutely. You would be jailed. You cannot speak out against your government. The wildest thing to me recently from the summer was the riots in LA that you had certain news outlets, certain stations. Saying Everything's peaceful here. Deja vu to 2020.

megan:

The mostly peaceful riots.

katiuscia:

Mostly peaceful. Peaceful protests. Peaceful

megan:

protests. Thank you.

katiuscia:

With the burning buildings behind them of the cities that just were absolutely lit up. The deaths and the violence and the looting.'cause looting is totally one of your amendment rights. No, it's not. But they just lumped it all in that Well, people are upset. Yeah, I know. But. It doesn't matter. And what was the worst about that was that you have people burning the American flag. Mm-hmm. That people in our military have gone to war and literally given their lives for, to burn something that is so sacred to our country. We are proud to be Americans and we respect it. So the fact that you are burning our flag and saying you hate America. This is when you should not be here at all. Yeah. This is when I think everyone needs to go through maybe a little citizenship training and test, because if you're sitting there saying how much you hate this country, that gives you the ability to say all of the shit that you are saying about the country. Get out. It's so pathetic. I'm over it.

megan:

And I think one of the cool parts about America is that I can't go to Italy and be Italian. I could go be an Italian citizen, probably. But I can't be Italian. I still will be Irish and Swedish. I can't go to Mexico and be a Mexican. But you can come to America no matter where you're from or what your heritage is, and you can be an American. And there's nowhere else like that and it's pretty fucking cool.

katiuscia:

It's amazing.

megan:

So be an American? Yeah. Appreciate what you have. If you were lucky enough to be born here and you don't appreciate it, then go go somewhere else. And if you love it there, then be there. I don't give a shit. I don't care. But if you wanna talk about extolling the virtues of socialism, then I will help you pack and you can go live in Venezuela and we'll talk when you're eating your dog.

katiuscia:

I feel nobody understands what other countries are like.

megan:

Oh, they don't.

katiuscia:

Unless they've gone there on vacation, you're not gonna see it because you're going to the nicest parts. Right?

megan:

Especially if you're going to like resort places, which isn't really Europe, but Mexico, the Caribbean, south America, things like that. If you're just on your resort, you're not gonna see it.

katiuscia:

So one of my biggest issues is when other countries start talking about. Our politics in the sense of, oh my gosh, you guys have a president. That's this, that Canada's notorious for this. Right Now I still love a lot of you Canadians,

megan:

but Oh, Canadians are amazing. Eh? I love Canada. It's freaking beautiful. Yes, it's gorgeous. The people are so friendly. It's bonkers, but they're government. Hard pass. No thank you.

katiuscia:

But they're talking about our government. This is that you shouldn't throw stones when you live in glass houses. Situation. Because,

megan:

yeah,

katiuscia:

if your government really isn't that great, and I mean, don't even get me started on no

megan:

go. I Government is gonna be pro, no government's gonna be perfect, but get your shit in order first.

katiuscia:

Clean your house. Yeah. Before you start shitting on ours. Right. Just keep your opinions to

megan:

yourself and that used to be something that everybody could agree on generally in America, no matter how you voted, everybody could agree about. The beauty of America.

katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

megan:

And it doesn't feel that way anymore.

katiuscia:

I remember growing up and if there was ever a comment or anything to be said, oh, that person from my grandpa or something. Right? Oh, no, I don't listen to him. He's a Democrat.

megan:

Oh, sure.

katiuscia:

That was it. Yeah. The, and they were still friends. You could have

megan:

whole, whole Democrats and Republicans married to each other.

katiuscia:

Mm-hmm. Not anymore.

megan:

Oh, there's no way. I don't know anybody. Who is in that kind of a situation, and I don't even know how they would make it work.

katiuscia:

Mm, not anymore. The stakes and the, the attitude, the vibes are way too different now, and there's just a lot more hate animosity. This started years ago and we've all just. Taken it and dealt with it. And I think a lot of us are to the point going through COVID and we've talked about that and the treatment of people. I'm grouping it and just, I'm calling it political fuckery because this is from the elected officials who are getting on at. Rallies and getting on tv and they're doing this performative cussing that sounds, oh, that's,

megan:

oh, it's so

katiuscia:

you're just, uh, please. This is so unc and unbecoming of an elected official.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

To do that. But then it trickles into everybody where you have that boldness online and then. The boldness to say stuff in front of people that maybe you don't know, that they believe differently than you. And they're not about to jump in and start a big debate because why? I have friends that believe totally different than me, and I love and I respect them. Mm-hmm. And I just choose to not talk about politics. Mm-hmm. Or anything going on because I don't view a person or judge a person based on your political beliefs. No. The differences that we all have is a beautiful thing because if everyone was the same, it would be really boring.

megan:

Oh, for sure.

katiuscia:

And I don't want that. No. I just want to be able to be myself without getting judged for what I believe. Because I don't judge you for what you believe, even though I don't. It depends on how extreme No, but you know what I mean. Yeah. I'm not gonna make an assumption of a friend of mine. Right.

megan:

Sure.

katiuscia:

Because they believe one way, but I also want that same respect and I feel I deserve that same respect if I'm giving it to you. Mm-hmm. Why is it not coming back at me? But I feel this rhetoric and it's a lot of rage. Ba, this is a new kind of template. I don't feel in my life I've ever lived through what I've been living through in the past, I don't know, 10, 12 years.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Where it is so extreme where you are putting neighbor against neighbor. And whether it was through COVID or not, you've got the COVID wanting to rat out the neighbors. Okay. But this is neighbor against Neighbor for what you believe, where you're tearing down flags in other people's yards. First of all, get off my lawn.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

There is a, something broke again with this, but it's fed everyone with a lot of hate.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

And a lot of anger and that makes me sad.

megan:

Oh, for sure. Well, and I think that. It used to be considered really uncouth to discuss what politics, religion, and money. And I think that that's part of the problem because that might have worked for boomers. It might have even worked for some Gen Xers. But for us, I'm not a millennial, but for anyone who came up in the eighties and nineties, we were not taught. How to have this kind of a conversation without pinning our entire identity to our belief system. And so if someone is calling out something that you believe or something that you're stating of a political nature. A lot of people have a really hard time not taking that super personally and taking it as a personal attack, which of course changes the whole dynamic of the conversation. And then they jump into these tribes and everything's so tribal, whether the right or the left, and once again. Come at it with a little curiosity. Nobody asks any questions. I'm not out popping off with my opinions unless somebody says, Megan, what do you think about this? Which is pretty rare. People don't ask me that very often 'cause either they know and they know that I already agree with them or they know I have lots of people in my life really treasured people to me who we know that we are not voting the same way, but our relationship is deeper and stronger than that. But I also have. Cherished people in my life who found out that I wasn't voting the same way as them. And so they don't really talk to me hardly ever. And I remember in probably college or right after saying publicly. I don't even know if it was social media or not.'cause it might have even been pre-social media. But if you're the President of the United States, that means that you're the president of the United States. You're not the president of the Democrats, you're not the president of the Republicans. You should, once you get elected, you should just be the President and stop talking shit about the other people who didn't vote for you. Just be the President. And I think it's the same way with any politicians. Once you're elected, yeah, you have to deal with your reelection campaign and all of that. And you can always tell when they're up for reelection'cause they'll go real hard to whichever side they're on and then they run right back to the middle. Right When it's time for midterms and it's so gross. And you can have, you can be conservative, you can be liberal, you can be those things, but you're still representing more than just your base.

katiuscia:

So yes, the president represents everyone, but each representative, Senator Congressperson of their own district governor. I get it. Governor. Yeah, I get it that you had, you were elected by a majority because this is where you lean, but you still have to take care of everyone and no one does a better job of running straight to the middle than Gavin Newsom, whose state is a shit show, and everybody knows that. There is no denying it. There's no help assistance for anyone that actually needs it, but he lets in everyone illegally, he doesn't clean up his streets unless someone's coming to visit and then he cleaned up San Francisco and then it's back to how it is. San Francisco has apps where you can track a big map, the human feces. Mm-hmm. That is disgusting. And this guy is trying to position himself for a presidential run. Mm-hmm. I tell you, it's people like that and threats like that, that if Newsome with the largest state, but also the state that has the most money, well dead, the most beautiful state, no one can say that. California's Oh,

megan:

geographically, it's stunning.

katiuscia:

It's gorgeous. It's so sad at what's happened to California. You wanted to ban gasoline cars, but you have a grid that can't even handle. What's normal? Life's now normal life.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

All of these things. No one panders and tries to position himself more to the middle than Gavin Newsom, and for some reason he's just still there. There's a lot of rural California and there's a lot of people in Southern California that are very conservative.

megan:

Sure.

katiuscia:

The fact that he just keeps. Staying there, that's when you start questioning everything. What I also don't like is the amount of money these politicians have or get, and because I was someone who always wanted to do my civic duty of going and being a representative, doing a little stint in Congress. I think that I could see

megan:

that.

katiuscia:

I think that idea got wiped out of my mind when I realized that you're gonna have to sell out.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

The second you get in to have anything passed, you really have a great idea. You wanna bring this bill to the floor, you're not gonna be able to do it on your own. So you have to sell out. And that to me is a no-go. I can't do that. Uh, again, we go based on logic, value system, all of the things that make me, me, and I wouldn't be able to do it.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

As much as I want to. But I also am a firm believer that everything needs to have a term limit. And I don't understand how the president can only have a two term limit, but senators like Schumer. Mm-hmm. And I think McConnell's out now, or was he bowing out after this retiring next one?

megan:

Yeah. Well, and who was the guy listening from Utah or in Hatch or somebody that was in Strom Thurmond? Somebody was in for 90 years in Congress? Get out. First of all, it was just ridiculous.

katiuscia:

First of all, the time's a change,

megan:

but we are supposed to be the term limits. The voters are supposed to let me hit my microphone. I become Italian when I'm with you. I'm talking with my hands. I'm

katiuscia:

sorry.

megan:

The voters are supposed to be the term limits. We are supposed to be voting them out and we are not doing it.

katiuscia:

So I don't get it.

megan:

It's awful.

katiuscia:

Okay. So even if the voters are supposed to be though, put some stipulation on it. Yeah, I point the president has it.

megan:

I feel strongly that the voters should be the term limits, but obviously that's not working out, so let's throw some term limits on there. And I also think that originally it was not supposed to be a career.

katiuscia:

No, it's gross.

megan:

It was supposed to be like jury duty.

katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

megan:

Everyone was supposed to go and have a hand at running this country that we are all involved in. But we have passed it off, and I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, it was kind of framed as well. You would never be in congress. Because you're not a Kennedy or a Pelosi or you, it's this class of people that's groomed for this. And so Joe Main Street doesn't think that that's ever even something that he would do. And so the divide has gotten even bigger.

katiuscia:

I don't like it. I don't get it. It's crazy that with a country as it's still young, we're a baby country. This shit wasn't supposed to be like this. No. The money, the term limits. Why are you all rich? Why is this career politician stuff? Why are people allowed to, I don't know, have knowledge of maybe some stock things that go really well?

megan:

Have you heard about the guy that.

katiuscia:

Nancy

megan:

does all of his stocks based on Nancy,

katiuscia:

Nancy Pelosi.

megan:

And he is, he's

katiuscia:

doing well,

megan:

isn't he? Oh, he is doing great.

katiuscia:

Yeah.

megan:

Well, and you have a guy running for mayor of New York City who's never had a real job in his life,

katiuscia:

dude.

megan:

Except for a failed rapper

katiuscia:

dude. Don't the here's,

megan:

it's blowing my mind, and not that we don't have some absolute cartoon characters on the right,

katiuscia:

right.

megan:

But it's just. Of it. Our whole government is bonkers because who's actually running the show? Not us.

katiuscia:

No. This is supposed to be government for the people, by the people.

megan:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

and it's not.

megan:

It's not. This

katiuscia:

is a government that fills their own pockets. Pushes shit that should never be pushed, aligns themselves with people who are feeding them financially. And I just don't understand how a lot of places don't see it. The states that are overtaken by crime, the cities that have shootings every weekend that are denying that there's a problem, the officials are denying that there's a problem. Yeah. They don't want help from the president. They're being stubborn. They'd rather their people die. You're gonna martyr your own people because you hate the president so much that by the way, I'm gonna throw out, it was a landslide victory for this president. So love him or hate him, I don't care. But that's what the majority of people voted for. Mm-hmm. So when you come out with statements completely, even in a group setting with friends, you know, may have voted maybe just to be. I know, I guess I have awareness for people. I wish everybody had. It's just that basic respect. Again, I understand that conversations get heated, but to treat someone or to attack on a group level. Where then people are taking it very personally. I heard some shit after this election that I just thought, you know me, you've known me for years and you're grouping me in with something.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

It's your perception. It's your belief. That's actually not even the facts. A lot of people don't take the time. To really get educated and they listen to what they're hearing by these commentators and they who they're following on social media. I also believe that celebrities should never be allowed to have a political opinion.

megan:

That's why Dolly Parton is a national treasure, because she doesn't talk about that.

katiuscia:

You shouldn't talk about it

megan:

because I want to like your music,

katiuscia:

right?

megan:

I wanna watch your movies without being like, well, that guy's an ass hat. I don't wanna think about that when I'm in the arts.

katiuscia:

I don't know how many people pre-buy the tickets to certain shows. Mm-hmm. Or go to the movies and support the actors that are on a very large scale. I think they feel, because they have such a big platform, they're going to say something to save face on a side that maybe that leans a lot of the actors went super pro Harris. I, I don't think you're really in touch. I don't think that you're buying groceries. I don't think that you deal with the fucking crime that a lot of people live with on a daily basis. A lot of people, and you are telling them that basically it doesn't matter that you don't care and that this other way is better the way that's been allowed. It is so wild to me, and I just think. You're outta touch. Nobody should even be listening to you. But unfortunately, you've got people who are very into what their celebrity, their favorite singer is gonna say, and what she's gonna post on her Instagram. That turns me off too, so much when someone of a big name says something, because I just think you, you're not even going to the store. You don't even have a, yeah. She doesn't even go here. You have no bearing to say anything right now.

megan:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

but it's the judgment, it's everything. So I just

megan:

Well, and it's the attempt to cancel everybody over every little thing. Stop tying it to your whole identity. Like you said, people have known you for years. You know that I'm more than just this one thing. And if you wanna come and ask me. Why did you vote the way that you voted? I can tell you that

katiuscia:

even though I can tell you why I voted like that, Y you might look at me as, okay, well, and I voted the way I did because I don't want any of that. Perfect.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Isn't that the beauty of what makes us unique, that we don't. We're not all the same.

megan:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

I don't want to believe the same shit and live in a robot world. That's obviously gonna be controlled by ai. I don't wanna live in that world. I wanna live in the world where I'm allowed to have an opinion or to make decisions based on a value system that maybe you don't have that same value system. So it doesn't matter to you. It doesn't mean that my. Beliefs are irrelevant or unimportant or can be dismissed. It means that my beliefs are valid, my opinion is valid, and so are my feelings, but I would never sit and just attack without really knowing or just, but that's me. I will be respectful. I will give you the grace. I agreed

megan:

the room.

katiuscia:

I will give the grace.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

That's the judgment. It's everything. Well,

megan:

you also don't have your whole identity pinned to how you voted. Oh

katiuscia:

my God, no,

megan:

because there's more depth than that. But all the people in my life who vote differently than me,'cause I have a lot of 'em. There are some who know that we don't agree, but we could have a conversation about it. We're not gonna get our feelings hurt. And then there are some who I know. I just cannot, I cannot touch a topic if we're at a whole family function. I have relatives who will go off, and I know that if I say anything, even if it's calm and logical and rational, but I disagree with them, I'm gonna be the villain. So I have to make that choice, and usually it's easier to just keep the peace. But then I do have, I can think of one, one of my mom's really good friends that I grew up with, and she and I, I don't know if there's a single thing that we have voted the same on in my 25 years of voting.

katiuscia:

Oh.

megan:

But she's amazing because she will ask questions and she doesn't take it personally, and she will sit down with you. At a whole party full of people and she'll just be locked in. Well, why? Why do you think that? And what do you think about this? And she'll ask incredibly insightful questions, and we will both leave that conversation feeling restored. There was a gap that was bridged that we both understand each other a little bit better, and that's what I wish people would do, rather than just getting instantly offended. Your feelings hurt, the ad hominem attacks. Get it together. Attack somebody's policy. Sure. But people feel like they have a lot more entitlement to just attack differences.

katiuscia:

The attacks to me are, I just don't understand. Again, maybe it's how we were raised, maybe because it's, everyone's getting an example from social media has become such a huge thing, what past 20 years the. Politicians who were saying it. So now it's coming from everyone that you voted for, maybe on a small scale. And if they're all saying the same thing, I do love watching other, I'll put on CNN or M-S-N-B-C, I wanna hear the script.

megan:

Sure.

katiuscia:

So I like the script when something happens, because it's the same word everywhere, and then they'll try to spin it. But I also think, talk about gaslighting with what happened to us with the Hunter Biden laptop.

megan:

Oh

katiuscia:

yeah. And then that came out a few years later, even though we all knew. Yeah, in that moment and the censorship and all of these things. So again, you want your free speech so bad because you wanna be able to say whatever you wanna say, but then when it's something that you don't like, you're gonna cut that free speech and that's a game that is really dangerous. Because we have our free speech for a reason, but everyone's taking it a little too far. It's kind of the, everyone's been so emboldened thing. Mm-hmm. This is on a completely different level. This is on a very disturbing level when you have people lumping whole groups of voters. Mm-hmm. Right. Like MAGA. Will get grouped in a whole thing because this is the way they look. This is this, this is that. And I'm thinking, do you even know what you're saying right now and how ignorant you sound right now? Mm-hmm. It is insane.

megan:

Well, when you're calling an entire group of people bigots.

katiuscia:

Yeah,

megan:

that's pretty bigoted. And I don't care who the politician is. I don't care if I voted for somebody every single time they ran. They're not my priest, they're not my husband. They are that representative for me. I'm not so in love with any politician that I can't hear something bad about them that I can't admit if they made a policy decision that I don't agree with, or I can say, oh yeah, I don't agree with that life choice that they made, but it's not my freaking choice. I'm not gonna wrap my whole self up into that so much that I can't. Oh, la la la, la, la la. No. If your son is a crackhead who posted his own porn videos to the internet, that's valid, viable information that we can all talk about.

katiuscia:

That's fair game.

megan:

Yeah. Is

katiuscia:

what it is.

megan:

If it's your son, maybe sit down and have a conversation with him, but if it's not your son, don't get yourself so wrapped up in it that you feel the need to attack other people for pointing that out.

katiuscia:

Yeah. By the way, that's also not when you do your gentle parenting, that's when you parent the shit out of that child

megan:

speaking to Hunter Biden's drug problem. If somebody comes at me and says That's what bism I'm, I'm blocking you forever. But if, imagine if one of the Trump kids had a big fat drug problem. No. Just anytime you just flip the script, what would happen if it was the other way? Mm-hmm. And it's bonkers. I can tell you, having had a very close family member die of a drug overdose, the amount of fucking secrecy over that is ridiculous. So let's talk about it. I don't have a problem. I'll tell you the whole story. I don't care 'cause it was not my poor decision. It shouldn't reflect on me. If you think that it does, then that's your broken brain. I don't really care what you think of me anyway, but So why are we not allowed to talk about the first crackhead that was living in the White House? That's pretty valid, but somehow we're not allowed to talk about it as though he's some minor child.

katiuscia:

No.

megan:

A little baby hunter. No, no. Thank you.

katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

megan:

We're allowed to talk about it. We're allowed to talk about the fact that Gavin Newsom was going to $400 a plate, dinners. C packed with people during COVID when the rest of your state was locked down and couldn't go to people's funerals.

katiuscia:

Right. Or Nancy Pelosi who went to the hairstylist because she needed to. Lori Lightfoot did the same thing. I was

megan:

just gonna say

katiuscia:

that. And then Lightfoot said, because I'm a public figure, I mean,

megan:

when you have whole hairstylists in even Dallas, Texas, like Shelly Luther, who was arrested mm-hmm. For trying to operate her business during COVID.

katiuscia:

Right.

megan:

And the thing that worries me is that. People from other states don't realize how bad Newsom is. Obviously most of us here in Idaho know it because half of freaking California is here now. But there are a whole other people who don't realize what a literal shit show he has made his whole state out to be.

katiuscia:

Yeah. And I think he comes across to some as charismatic. He comes across charismatic,

megan:

like a cult leader.

katiuscia:

He comes across to me as him, and Trudeau always had that weird romance where they just come across to me, in my opinion, as pervy,

megan:

slimy

katiuscia:

frat boys. Mm-hmm. Who don't be so sleazy and creepy. But yeah, I think this, as you were saying, we vote for people. They're not. The end all be all to us. To me, I vote for someone, but I, a lot of times I'll say, oh God. Even when Trump got elected again, I was like, someone's got a leash him, someone's got a leash him. I can point it out very easily if something is I don't agree with.

megan:

Yeah, but that's

katiuscia:

because we're not in OC cult. Mm-hmm. I think that the other side, a lot of them, the really extreme, far wanna make it seem like everyone who voted for Trump. Is in a cult. And at the end of the day, we just all wanted a better life. And the way that things were going, nobody could admit that it was good. It was terrible. It was expensive. People were suffering. It was dangerous. But you saved

megan:

16 cents on your hot dogs for 4th of July.

katiuscia:

Oh, oh my gosh. I can't believe I didn't remember that. Yeah. Would've failed on me. But I'm saying we all wanted a better life. We wanted our, our, the kids to be okay. We wanted our health system to be better. The food system, everything that we weren't getting, the people had had enough. Mm-hmm. Which is why the election turned out the way it did.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

That's all we wanted. And I feel like that's very valid. But to constantly have people going online, it's old, it's tired, it's pathetic.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

So I feel it's just situations where. People with a platform, please understand that the rhetoric and the shit you say has an impact and it matters. It will make a difference in some way. Yeah. Whether good or bad, maybe just keep your opinions because they're so removed anyway.'cause you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe keep them to yourself, but for everyone else. Uh, treat each other. Let's go back back to when we talked about behavior. Back to the golden rule of shit.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Treat people kindly. If you're the person who wraps your whole identity into your political affiliation, then I mean, I'm sorry, I don't view people like that. Yeah. I'm not going to make. Judgments because of that. But if you're turning around and attacking me and grouping me into a, a label,

megan:

yeah.

katiuscia:

Why? You know me, this is crazy. So, or

megan:

get to know me.

katiuscia:

Or get to know me. Yeah. Ask the questions, but don't just assume that either. Number one, I'm on board with every policy. Number two, I don't see, but I see a lot that everyone's denying. Also, I think we're in a position now, especially after COVID, where a lot of people who have felt silenced. For so long are now speaking up and not silenced in the way where we couldn't say anything. Just we chose not to participate because we knew what would come at us from the other side. And it was vicious and it was cruel. And it was heavy where then you know you're gonna get canceled. First of all, I think cancel culture needs to be canceled and I think it's on its way there. I hope so. So that's good.

megan:

I grow up. More voices, and I did say this to somebody once. I don't agree with, what's that terrible quarterback's name, Colin Kaepernick. I don't agree with him and I don't agree with the K, k, K, but I support their right to say what they wanna say. If you follow the your city's ordinances about having a parade, have your racist parade, that's your first amendment right. I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean that I have to go. They're not gonna drag me there and tape my eyelids open to watch it. And even then I have a brain in my head I could watch it and say, yep, I don't agree with that. Still clocking that I don't agree with this, that or the other. I don't agree with Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the national anthem. That doesn't mean that I won't defend his right to do that, but like, why don't we ever, can I get some of that back?

katiuscia:

No.

megan:

And that's the part, the part that just blows my mind. It's all the first amendment. That's the beauty of it, is that you don't have to agree with everybody, right? But more voices makes it a richer experience for everybody rather than just screaming to be heard. And the thing I tell my kids constantly when I'm refereeing fights at the house is you don't raise your voice, you improve your argument. And there's so little of that going on.

katiuscia:

There's no argument. That's the thing. Yeah. There's zero debate. Zero quality of commentary. It's the same tired stuff. It's just these things that they're hearing. It's a script.

megan:

The talking points.

katiuscia:

The talking points, the script.

megan:

And I'm sure that there would be talking points on the right, except that there's only Fox News if we're talking about legacy media. And so you don't hear it over and over and over again.'cause there's just the one channel,

katiuscia:

right?

megan:

The people who. Think that they're getting all the news from the Today Show are just as delusional as the people who think they're getting all their news from Fox and Friends. It's two sides of the same coin,

katiuscia:

and that's why I always say, you need to do your research. Mm-hmm. And not just watch. The commentary.'cause those are just hosts. Yeah, they're show hosts and everything. They're telling you, they're putting their own opinion and spin on it. So it's not just the facts. You gotta find the facts for yourself. You have to do a little bit of work. Take the personal responsibility. Yeah. To do a little bit of work.

megan:

And how do you do that? You talk to people,

katiuscia:

you read, you find facts.

megan:

Yeah. Which is harder and harder to do because what even is a fact anymore, it's really hard to even get on the internet and find something that you can really, truly believe is a fact.

katiuscia:

Pretty much everything you're hearing is rage bait in some way.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

It works really well, where then it's very easy apparently to lump everyone under a label and group them. It hasn't worked on me the other way, but again, the Party of Tolerance is really not showing to be very tolerant, and that I think is a lesson. That I learned because I actually don't care what you do in your own personal life. I care when you start imposing things on children.

megan:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

And I don't even have children, but for the sake of the children and I've got nephews and family, I'm not, that is something that everyone should be against is indoctrinating children. Mm-hmm. Or trying to remove history and teaching at Ivy League schools, how horrific America is. I'm sorry, number one, you're getting funding. Number two, what? Who? What are you doing? You can't be teaching this. This isn't history. You have to teach history. You can't remove it. It happened. You know how history happens again when you forget about it. Mm-hmm. And you try to deny that it happened. This shit will repeat. That's the whole point about history is if you didn't learn the lesson, it will repeat. I will say it's felt better lately than it has the past few years. You've got pride to be American. That natural pride, and people try to make that like it's a bad thing. If it's a bad thing, go somewhere else.

megan:

Yeah. Yeah.

katiuscia:

This is very basic. We just wanna live normal, but we're also tired. I'm tired of not speaking up. And again, not that I'm gonna go into a restaurant and start making big statements, bold statements. I'm just saying I'm tired of being in positions that I'm put in that I feel I shouldn't say anything or can't say anything. I'm tired of that. So I also don't feel like I should have to be the one that's always silenced when everyone else is so emboldened to tell me what a bigot I am or a racist.

megan:

Yep. I think the thing that gives me a lot of hope is that you have somebody who has, right now the biggest platform is Joe Rogan. I mean, he was a Bernie bro. He was not conservative, and he may not even still be, and he will have. Anybody on his show that he thinks is interesting and he asks them questions and he's expanding the conversation. And a lot of people, I think that's what really has been turning the tide culturally because politics is downstream from pop culture is one of my favorite quotes, and it's true. And he's helping reshape the pop culture movement because he offered Kamala to come on his podcast and she refused. And Trump took him up on it. But it's a chance to see a different perspective of that person. He's saying, Hey, this is what I think. Let's have a conversation. I'll ask you some questions. Maybe you can change my mind. And I think that that gives me a lot of hope that people are able to just relearn the art of asking questions, but also the art of not being offended. I think those of us who don't get offended over everything are happier.

katiuscia:

Totally.

megan:

That's just a better quality of life. If you can find the joke and laugh about your own self. There's beauty in that. So I hope a lot of people can, A lot more people can find that.

katiuscia:

I agree. Another thing I do wanna point out is people like Joe Rogan, people like a lot of. Other comedians and other bigger names who maybe would've always been very left-leaning. They're more moderate, so they lean now more towards the right. More in the middle, but more towards the right. Mm-hmm. Because the left has gotten so extreme.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

When you are given an inch and you take 17 miles, you're going to isolate a lot of people. Mm-hmm. When you're pushing socialism.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

To communism as a platform, this is gonna isolate a lot of people. First of all, I think if that guy does win in New York, I do feel New York's gonna have a little bit of an exodus. Get ready Florida for all the money's coming down there again. So things like that will happen. That's natural. But why has it gotten so extreme? You're isolating your own base. The base has gone further. Mm-hmm. So everyone who would've been considered the base, like the Joe Rogan maybe,

megan:

yeah.

katiuscia:

Is just now more in the middle of logic, sanity, normalcy. I think that's what the majority of us want. I think if you sit down with anyone who voted for Harris and then someone who voted for Trump. You talk about the main issues with them, everyone will agree that somewhere in the middle is where we all should be happy. Medium, somewhere.

megan:

So one of the hardest classes I ever took in college, but was probably the most valuable. I don't even know what the class was. I don't even know what subject we were doing, but he taught us about stasis in an argument. You have to have stasis, you have to be arguing the same. Thing and the best example I can give, which just absolutely melts people's brains. So buckle up is abortion.

katiuscia:

Hmm.

megan:

I don't have pro-life versus pro-choice is not stasis. The pro-choice people are saying women should have. Autonomy over their own bodies. The pro-life people are not saying women should not have autonomy over their own bodies. Pro-life people are saying that's murdering a baby pro-choice. People are not saying that's not murdering a baby. You see what I'm saying? They're not arguing the same thing, and you cannot come to a resolution. You cannot come to any kind of understanding or agreement when you have no stasis in an argument, and that's what we're seeing. In order to have stasis, you have to have a conversation without getting your panties in a twist, and you have to ask questions.

katiuscia:

Nobody wants to ask questions anymore. No, they just wanna make assumptions. It's easier to make assumptions. It's much more difficult to take the time and really. Ask some well thought out questions from others. Mm-hmm. Maybe you wanna make the assumptions because it's easier for you to comprehend and understand in your own mind. And then also you don't wanna be faced with having to either. Defend, prove a point, whatever it is. Because if you have to ask a question and someone gives you an answer that you weren't expecting, and now you don't know how to defend it, you will break. Yeah. The people, they will lose it, and then it just becomes a series of attacks. There's no right answer. Right. This is a no win. How many no win situations have you been in, in a discussion about politics?

megan:

Oh, almost all of 'em.

katiuscia:

So many.

megan:

But I think it's pretty clear when somebody starts resorting to ad hominin attacks that they don't, they can't stand on policy. And this culture of everybody has to have a hot take right now is unreasonable. There are lots of things politically that I don't understand and I have no problem saying, you know what? I don't know enough about that to have an opinion yet. Let me look into it and see what I can find out. Tell me what you think and why you think that way. But there are so many people who feel like they have to have an opinion right now, and so they just grabbed that party line and that tribal hive mentality and. And that's not healthy either.

katiuscia:

I think that the more I talk to people and open up, and especially people who I do know that I can talk about these things with the general consensus is everybody's just tired of not being able to speak. And again, not by force, but by choice of, I don't wanna deal with the repercussions of saying anything. Right. I don't,

megan:

especially when you're. Professional livelihood could be jeopardized by that.

katiuscia:

Yes.

megan:

That's insane to me. If you want a cake and this guy doesn't wanna bake your cake, then go find a different baker. But he shouldn't have to be afraid to say no. If that goes against my beliefs to pick your cake, why are you gonna force him to do something he doesn't wanna do? Just go. To find somebody who, who will do that happily.

katiuscia:

That's the freedom of religion then, right? Yeah. I just think that everyone is very fed up. They're over it. They are gonna say what they wanna say, and I think that that's fine. I think it's great that people are just gonna say what they wanna say and not give a shit about offending anyone, because again, if you're easily offended. Don't even bother listening to this, but don't even bother having a conversation that you can't either back up your stance or have a good old fashioned debate

megan:

or just ask some questions,

katiuscia:

anything, get to know where the other person's coming from. There is so much of that lacking because assumptions are ruling and attacks are what everybody wants to do, and that's fine if that's how you operate. Whatever. It's not how I operate. I won't treat people like that.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

I'm just tired of not feeling comfortable with saying something with someone like me. In my profession, I don't bring up my politics, but I also don't shield them. So there are a lot of people who would just say, don't talk about it. Kind of like the, don't talk about politics, religion. Mm-hmm. Money. So. Obviously if I had someone in my line of work that asked me where I stood politically, and if I told them and they were absolutely adamant about not working with me, that's fine. Yeah. That's, there are so many other people who do what I do that you can find someone that you align with, but having to protect for sake of business or for sake of anything to keep it hush, hush and secret. Like a shame secret, right? Like I did something bad. I am over it. I'm over it. Yeah. I'm not singing from the rooftops like a lot of other people do.

megan:

Exactly.

katiuscia:

But I am just over it and I'm very open and transparent and I feel that. Both sides should be allowed to be that way. Agree. If you're comfortable spewing at me for something, I'm actually not gonna spew back at you, but I'm going to be able to defend myself and be very articulate with it. And I'm sorry if you don't like it.

megan:

Yeah. You're not showing up to a business meeting wearing a MAGA hat and a FJ JB T-shirt.

katiuscia:

No.

megan:

But you should be allowed to say, yeah. Aren't we happy that the price of gas has gotten a little better? Mm-hmm. Aren't we happy that nobody's doing drugs in the White House that we know of? You should be allowed to say stuff like that.

katiuscia:

Right.

megan:

So,

katiuscia:

and not get chastised for it.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Because when it's the other way around and someone says something anti-Trump, nobody says anything. Yeah. It's the hypocrisy. Mm-hmm. That's what it is. It's really the hypocrisy.

megan:

It's exhausting.

katiuscia:

It's really exhausting. And it's also. The fact that everyone's being so pumped and promoted to do that.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

To be allowed to spew this hatred and just stand on hypocrisy so strong where it's very clear to everybody, but everyone's just too exhausted and mentally fried to deal with it because it's a no win situation.

megan:

And I think that there are a lot of people. Who don't go into it with intention, they're just knee jerk answering things or spewing. And I was raised pretty liberal in a pretty liberal area for half of my life, and I made the conscious decision to switch parties. When I was in college and I might have been the only person who ever left that college, more conservative than when they went in. And so because of that, I know why I think the way I think, I know why I vote the way I vote. And I think there are a lot of people who don't know why they vote the way they vote, just 'cause that's how it's always been, or that's how they've always done it, or that's how their mom and dad voted, or that's what their favorite singer said. And I think that. People need to be able to say, I don't know enough about that. Let me do some research and look at why they think what they think. Because you can tell when somebody doesn't have a good, clear reason why. That's when they resort to the attacks. And there are plenty of people on the left that are good, normal, rational people, and they can tell you why they vote the way they vote. And I have tremendous respect for that. It's either side. That don't know why they're voting the way they're voting. Also, I think a big argument that can be made that it's all the same up at the top, it's all the same, and they're just dividing us to fight against each other to keep us distracted so they can just go ahead and do whatever they want.

katiuscia:

Do you ever find that when something. Big and petty is going on with politics, but they've made it so big, right? Whether the president said something or someone in the cabinet or whatever it is that covers every, mm-hmm. Every legacy news, everything is only talking about that. That when I see that going down, my first thought is not, what's this? My first thought is, what aren't we finding out right now? Oh, a

megan:

hundred

katiuscia:

percent. What is going on in the world? What, what aren't they telling us? Yeah, because what you think the world just stays calm to watch this fight?

megan:

No.

katiuscia:

No.

megan:

Yeah. That's when it's time to turn on cspan and see what they're actually voting on.

katiuscia:

It is terrifying. What

megan:

are they

katiuscia:

pushing you through? All of it's just, anyway, I think the moral is just be cool, be a cool human. Treat people with the dignity and respect. And if you know them, why would you judge them on their politics? Because they believe differently than you.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

At the end of the day, they're the person they've always been. They just have different beliefs. Maybe now they're just gonna partake in the conversation when you say something. But I know that this is a collective movement Yeah. Of people who are just over it and they're not, again, gonna come out and start raging, but they are also not gonna be the silent one anymore. If something prompts them to speak up, they will. And they're gonna do it with grace and love and respect. That's how everyone I know, that's how we operate. I'm coming at it like you always say, approaching it from a place of curiosity and treating other people with respect. So that's it. So like, and follow on all the platforms. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube

megan:

page. Oh yeah.

katiuscia:

And the Instagram page, which is, which is

megan:

Don't even Bother Pod.

katiuscia:

Right. Don't even bother Pod on Instagram and YouTube.

megan:

Okay.

katiuscia:

Then emails in the show notes

megan:

if you wanna send us a coffee gift card.

katiuscia:

Perfect.

megan:

No political vitriol, please.

katiuscia:

No. But you can share stories. And also if you ever have, if anyone has anything that they wanna share, not about politics, but about anything, I feel like this is probably the moment to say, shoot it to us in email or a message on Instagram and we will share. If you want on, on the podcast, we'll share it.

megan:

If you have a topic you want us to talk about. Yeah, if you wanna come on the podcast

katiuscia:

and you have something to share,

megan:

everyone has a story.

katiuscia:

That's what I'm saying. We would love to talk to you. So yeah, I think that's it. We enjoy having conversations with each other, but we also enjoy having conversations with other people

megan:

because that's the point.

katiuscia:

That is the point, that's the point of life to get to know them. But yeah, I think that's it.

megan:

All right.

katiuscia:

Um,

megan:

well have a good day, everybody.

katiuscia:

Have a good day To everyone except for Gavin Newsom and anyone who thinks that he's doing a great job. Okay, bye

megan:

bye.