Don't Even Bother

#10: Cultivating a Self-Care Strategy — Burnout, Balance & Cult Mentality

• Katiuscia + Megan • Episode 10

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0:00 | 58:14

Self-care is meant to make life better — but sometimes it can start to feel like pressure.

In this episode, we talk about burnout, stress, and what it actually looks like to build a self-care strategy that works in real life.

We also take a deeper look at how extreme thinking can develop, using the Rajneesh movement as an example of how group dynamics, belief systems, and social pressure can shape behavior.

From wellness culture to cult mentality, this is a conversation about finding balance, thinking critically, and avoiding extremes.

00:00 Intro – Self-Care Strategy
03:30 Why Self-Care Doesn’t Work
11:20 Burnout and Stress
20:00 Building Better Habits
30:10 When It Starts Feeling Extreme
39:40 The Rajneesh Cult
49:30 Finding Balance
56:30 Final Thoughts

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Speaker:

Don't even bother.

Megan:

Hey, what's up?

Katiuscia:

Hey,

Megan:

so Agamemnon says it's time for a cult check-in.

Katiuscia:

I think we're probably due for one.

Megan:

Tell me something good, first of all.

Katiuscia:

Well, I have been surviving the past few days on. Very limited food and still manage. I'm gonna get so much hate for this. I'm gonna get so much shit for it. But. I've been running on adrenaline and fumes.

Megan:

Okay. You deal with stress by not eating. Mm-hmm And I deal with stress by eating all the things.

Katiuscia:

Yeah, it's,

Megan:

we need to find a way to balance

Katiuscia:

that out. To balance it out. So during COVID lockdown, did you gain weight or did you lose weight?

Megan:

I don't remember, but if anything, I probably lost weight 'cause I had more time to actually work out.

Katiuscia:

Okay. That makes sense. I know a lot of people who gained weight.

Megan:

Oh yeah,

Katiuscia:

I lost weight because I was just so stressed and working out at home and doing all the things. But I dunno. Something good is. My dog is mellowing out. My puppy is going from her dinosaur phase in life right now and finally starting to chill, which is really good because I kept her to be a therapy dog for St. Luke's Children's Hospital. So in order to achieve that, she's so smart, she's ridiculously smart, but she's also in that puppy dinosaur asshole phase still. Where she's coming out of it, and that is so good. I'm so excited about that. What about you? Tell me something good.

Megan:

My hair's clean today.

Katiuscia:

Woo.

Megan:

Not made a dry shampoo, so we got that going for us. My puppy made it seven days without an accident and then got so wound up that he forgot what, what was happening in pet's pants yesterday. So we had to start the, we do have a thing on the fridge. It's been zero days since our last accident, so we had to start it back at zero, but. What are you gonna do?

Katiuscia:

I love that.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

My puppy's been a while. I mean, she, up until a year, she would still randomly have accents, but it's because she's so trained on that bell

Megan:

mm-hmm.

Katiuscia:

That if she hits the bell and she's not let out on time and somebody maybe thinks she's crying wolf and just lets it go, she'll, it's almost a, a spite accident. Like, I rang the bell, I told you this is what I'm supposed to do. So, but she's been good. So Great. That's because

Megan:

your puppy is smart. I don't do smart dogs. I have had smart dogs. Mine is very smart for a bird dog, but he's like a 5-year-old who gets so into playing a game that he doesn't wanna stop. So he didn't even know it was happening until it was happening.

Katiuscia:

Aw. And I love it 'cause he's so lanky.

Megan:

He's so awkward right now. Awkward. Oh my gosh. He looks like he's on stilts.

Katiuscia:

It's so funny seeing him from even when you brought him home to when I just saw him a few days ago and he's. It's almost, his legs are longer, but he's just,

Megan:

he's doubled in size, but it's all legs.

Katiuscia:

He's a giraffe. He's a

Megan:

giraffe baby.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. So cute. Well, I love that he hasn't had an accident. Congrats.

Megan:

Thank you.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. How are you doing with everything? On a mental health level,

Megan:

I feel like pretty normal, but then again, my baseline normal would probably absolutely right. A normal person, a normal, healthy person's nervous system. Uh, but. I can't complain.

Katiuscia:

Awesome.

Megan:

I mean, I could complain, but I can't, you know. No complaints. It's all good.

Katiuscia:

That's good.

Megan:

Yeah. How about you?

Katiuscia:

I think for me, I'm trying to just still stay on that trajectory where I'm prioritizing rest. I'm not getting enough rest, and that is really crazy to me. Because I'm go, go, go all day because I work out because I don't need enough to not, like, I should not have as much energy as I do. I just need rest. And my dogs like to get up at four 30 sometimes. So that throws off everything because I don't wanna be up that early. But on a mental health level, I think I have a lot of, it's been a good. There's been a lot that's happened the past couple months, so I think for that, I'm just trying to stay on the positive. It's been a difficult year for me, but I think coming in now towards the end of the year, I've done so much work and made such conscious decisions that I feel like it's all on an upward climb, and that's a really good thing for me.

Megan:

I feel like both of us. Are not any less busy or chaotic than we have been all year, but we're not spiraling right now. So that's helpful. And I mean, going forward I feel like we should really schedule it out so that only one of us is spiraling at a time. But you know, I guess if you have to spiral, you spiral with a friend. It's not a bad way to go.

Katiuscia:

We spiral together, stronger together, spiral together. No, I agree. One of us should always be a little more stable than the other. Yeah. That's just a note. That's a note for every friendship. One of you needs to have the crazy moment. One of you needs to be supportive and then you can flip flop and interchange. Yeah, as much as needed. But yeah, I think that's a good thing, especially coming into the holidays because that's gonna be already an extra added level of stress for everybody, for everyone in the world. So it's just good to kinda lock it up. Self-care. What do you do for, what are your favorite things to do for self-care?

Megan:

Yeah, well, I generally am a big fan of just laying on the floor, listening to music with headphones on. I don't, that's hard for me right now because unproductive rest is really difficult for me. So if I am listening to something, I usually have to be doing something else. I could be crocheting a commission piece or. I have to be doing two things at once. I cannot just do the one thing, even though that's the best thing. So I've been trying to do that. So recently I made a new playlist. I have all the playlists, I have playlists that remind me of certain people. My kids have their own playlists. I have all the playlists. So I made one, and it's called Volume 25 equals self-care. And the rules are I have to be. Alone while I'm driving. Because if you're not into these song, the way I'm into it, listening to it at volume 25 is gonna be really awful for you. So I have to be alone. I'm not answering any calls, I'm not doing any of that, and I'm full send. And it's like Motley Crewe, black Sabbath. Oh, white zombie poison. Lead a forward, all of it. And I'm, and it has to be at volume 25, and you would be amazed at what that does for my whole mood, my whole day. It's better than a 3:00 PM coffee.

Katiuscia:

I love this. For you, this is a, this is just, I mean, it's a beautiful thing that we have our self-care rituals and it's even more beautiful that we are so different in so many things like music choice.

Megan:

Oh, yeah.

Katiuscia:

Wow.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

That

Megan:

okay. Yeah. A little Ted Nugent. Just anything, little Metallica, anything that I, I have to know all the words 'cause if anybody sees me listening to that, driving down the road, like they'll know. Oh, she is listening to that on full volume.

Katiuscia:

She's just rocking her self care.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Hey, tell me, were you a Nirvana fan?

Megan:

Yeah, I was. But now listening to them, I don't, I can't really decide if it holds up a lot of things that I listened to in junior high and high school. I'm like, oh yeah, that holds up. That's so good. The offspring is, they were kind of underrated. They're still pretty

Katiuscia:

phenomenal,

Megan:

pretty good. I'm down with phenomenal offspring,

Katiuscia:

phenomenal. I'm down with offspring.

Megan:

Um, Nirvana doesn't really hold up for me that much. A little bit, but not really.

Katiuscia:

I got a lot of shit once on social media for saying I never liked Nirvana. Mm-hmm. I wasn't into Nirvana and there were just so many other bands that

Megan:

Yeah,

Katiuscia:

were better. And it was just too, I don't wanna, I don't wanna offend, I'm not trying to offend and like speak ill of, but just not my thing. A little whiny a little. A little. Yeah.

Megan:

The tone's a little off. As far as Seattle grunge music goes, I was heavy into Pearl Jam for a minute. Some of their stuff holds up, but again, uh, that was a weird time in my life, so I don't always appreciate it. But I'm gonna tell you that for my money, it's gonna be Allison Chains. Wow. As far as Seattle bands.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

From the nineties.

Katiuscia:

Okay. You heard it here first, so, all right. A funny thing I was thinking the other day was because on my Peloton I've been selecting all these fun, fantastic playlists with these amazing instructors, and there was one nineties playlist that just hit every button, every nineties, nostalgic memory. It was so good. And one of the songs on there was one of the first songs that I remember. Running to my radio cassette player thing when it was on the radio and pressing play and record. Oh

Megan:

yeah.

Katiuscia:

At the same time that it was coming on and it was Spice Girls wannabe.

Megan:

Stop it.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. It was so good. It's so good. And I can still hear the guy, the DJ in my head. And now it's from, you know, from England's New Spice Girls. And I remember just click and I had his. Intro to it at the end. That

Megan:

timing was clutch.

Katiuscia:

Oh my gosh. It was so good. So that song came on the playlist. And so that's, I'm immersing myself in so much nostalgia right now because of the Peloton.'cause I don't have access to all this music in my library of tunes that I've, gosh, I've got music from. College days when we were downloading ourselves, Napster, Limewire, and then people I've dated, I've taken their music collection, so I have so much music, they just need to go through it. But yes, spice Girls is on that playlist, and it is, it gets me fricking going. But then there's also Blur, and I mean, the most random things, there is a Nirvana song on that playlist, which is why it's. In my head and I'm kind of just me. It's not my favorite.

Megan:

Laura song too was pretty good.

Katiuscia:

That was it.

Megan:

I can get

Katiuscia:

down some songs too. Yeah. Laura song too, and it was just, it's quick, it's short.

Megan:

Yeah,

Katiuscia:

it's a power. It's like a power workout move. So then you're disgusting and satisfied at the same time. It's really wonderful. I would say self-care for me is, have you read any good books lately? No,

Megan:

that's unproductive rest. I don't have time to read.

Katiuscia:

I

Megan:

don't make time to read.

Katiuscia:

I miss reading. I miss having the time to read and I think I would hope that it's gonna be more of a winter activity for me. Also, if I can't do anything, if I can't go outside with the dogs, 'cause it's icy, you know, I'll get down with a puzzle. But I also wanna read, I've got Chaos, that book about Charles Manson and I wanna finish it. And I think I'm. It's 500 and something pages like carry the two. I think I'm 40 pages in for the past three months. So that's winning. I'll tell you what book I read lickety split like over, I don't know, in a matter of a couple hours, was the Subtle Art of Not Giving up B by, oh gosh, is it Mark Manson? It's something he's amazing. I'm gonna look it up so I can, you gotta read it. I have it.

Megan:

I have a stack of probably 15 books on my bedside table. That I look at every day and go, I can't wait to read those. And then I never do.

Katiuscia:

It's Mark Manson, and I'm gonna let you read it because it's such an easy Paige Turner, but it's easily digestible, whereas maybe chaos, the Charles Manson story is a little heavier. Oh, I'm also still reading good energy. Me by means me. Okay.

Megan:

Here, let me sum it up for you. I have a book that I've had for probably three years about undiagnosed a DD in women that I'm a third of the way through.

Katiuscia:

I mean, you're, how perfect is your picture on that book?

Megan:

Probably should be. I probably should get royalties from it.

Katiuscia:

Holy smokes. Wow.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Okay. I tried the RFK book. I really wanted to, to read it. I think that

Megan:

Fauci.

Katiuscia:

About Fauci. Yeah, that might be one that I have to list. I'd never listen to an audio book, but when I opened those pages and the font was to the end of the page,

Megan:

Ooh, tiny margins are rough.

Katiuscia:

It was the tiniest mar. It was a non-existent margin. It might as well have been no margin at all. So I think because of that, I'm just, I can't, I can't do it my self-care, gosh, I don't think I've done anything for self-care in a minute. But I would say in the recent couple months I had, I was on a lemon curd kick, which you partook in. You got IED from that. You got to reap the benefits of that. Yeah, I was on a, let's find a different recipe that I like of lemon curd. So that was,

Megan:

and then you gave me two containers claiming that they were different recipes and made me taste test them. And I was like, yeah, I can totally tell the difference. And then turns out they were the same batch.

Katiuscia:

That was amazing. That was so funny that I, and I was so bummed when that happened because I gave you two of the ones that I liked more. So that was it. I didn't have any more for me and I had to just remake it. But it was so funny when I realized it when I got home because sitting in your house as you were trying it and you were dead set. This is the power of the mind though.

Megan:

It's wild.'cause I

Katiuscia:

like,

Megan:

yep.

Katiuscia:

Sold. Just I can tell the difference on this one. This one's more this, this one's. And I get home and, oh, actually wait. They're the same. So

Megan:

yeah, I'm just real supportive.

Katiuscia:

You just, you went with it. Let's go. Tell me what's different. Let's do it. And you, you did it. So delicious though. I will make it again. Maybe I'll throw in a third recipe for SS and cheeses, like just to be, why not? Baking is typically very therapeutic for me to bake for others.

Megan:

I love baking.

Katiuscia:

Mm-hmm. It is really therapeutic. I don't wanna keep it in my house, I just want it to smell good in my house. Depends on what I'm making. If it's biscotti, I definitely wanna keep those, but I just really wanna give it to people. It's the whole ritual of baking and everything. But yeah, self-care, I would say, for me is, I don't know, taking a bath, sitting and putting a face mask on or something and chilling and having pure quiet. There is nothing. More beneficial. I love my music, but there's nothing that I like more than sitting with no one to talk to. Pure, quiet, just to recenter my thoughts and everything. It's a really nice feeling. I enjoy that. Also, self-care for me is watching multiple times. I will rewatch Game of Thrones forever, and that's if I, if I have the time to sit and watch something. That's kind of self carry for me'cause I never, I never do that. I don't have the time. That's why I binge all the same stuff that I've already seen.

Megan:

Yeah. I like rewatching things because it's, you don't have to work as hard mentally. And also because I can't tell you the last movie or TV show that I haven't figured out exactly what was gonna happen immediately in the first 10 minutes.

Katiuscia:

And it's kind of become a joke at the house now.

Megan:

Well, that's the bad guy. And then it's fun to see, oh, yep, I was right. Look at that. Oh, well the, that guy's in love with that girl. Okay, let's see how this plays out. I like watching things that I've seen a hundred times and then I can just quote along with it

Katiuscia:

and that's always

Megan:

and annoy everyone who's watching it with me.

Katiuscia:

Yeah, but that's always so fun to be able to know what comes next. And I do feel lately, and I don't know if it's just movies that I'm seeing or TV series, but when you're watching something and you're quoting the next line that this person is obviously going to say, because it's become so obnoxiously obvious that I always say, Ugh. I need to start writing shows like I should just start writing show. We should just write a show.

Megan:

You know what though? The problem is, is that all these shows are so obvious and predictable, and if I wrote that, I would be pissed about it. This is garbage. This is so fucking predictable. Uh, but maybe it would be a hit. I don't know.

Katiuscia:

It would have to be a hit because that's all you're getting these days is the same shit that people are doing. Where if people that aren't even fully paying attention, 'cause I know the way you watch tv, it's the way that I watch tv. We're doing something else also. So if I'm doing something and I'm still picking up on it, you need to get it together and you need to do better because they all went on strike. All these writers. And they came back and they gave us the same shit. So I

Megan:

just, well, and really they, I mean you don't even have to come up with something new. Do an Agatha Christie.

Katiuscia:

Oh wow.

Megan:

That's a solid, that she was the master of a plot twist.

Katiuscia:

What a throwback. That's

Megan:

crazy's.'cause I'm secretly 75 years old.

Katiuscia:

I know. I know.

Megan:

Agatha Christie was incredible and you never knew what was gonna come. So they don't even have to be all that unique. Just really go back to some classics and redo that if you're gonna be redoing things, but stick to the characters. Please

Katiuscia:

listen.

Megan:

I will. Or any female Ghostbusters and shit.

Katiuscia:

I will tell you one show that is, I will ride or die for that show. I never knew what was coming and I will rewatch it like Game of Thrones all the time. In the, you know, dead of night when it's quiet and cold outside. And if a noise happens in my house, I get freaked out. I don't care. I will watch Criminal Minds. Criminal Minds is a phenomenal show. You never knew what was gonna happen in any of those episodes with any of those plots or cases for the serial killers, it is heavy and. Gnarly and sometimes graphic, but it is a great, great show. You never watched it did you?

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia:

It's a commitment because it's, I think the main show was 14 seasons, and then they had spinoffs, so I think we just finished 17 of the spinoff version, but the originals were so good. Also there definitely is a thing, and I know there's always a joke and memes online about the women who calm down watching serial killer documentaries and listening to it. It's not that I don't, I think serial killer. I think if I watched too many documentaries, they'd freak me out because it's so real. I, for example, couldn't watch the Dahmer thing on Netflix. Do you remember when they released that? Yeah. And I think I watched one episode of it and I said, yeah, pass. No, I can't do this. But criminal minds I totally can. Women getting abducted and you know, having to stare at needles as they pierce their eye or give them a lobotomy. Yeah, I can watch that. It's really weird, but it's a great show.

Megan:

That's funny.

Katiuscia:

It's a good show.

Megan:

Friends has always been my comfort show.

Katiuscia:

Oh,

Megan:

I've watched it. Yeah, probably hundreds of times all the way through at this point, but I've also just recently started rewatching. Cheers.

Katiuscia:

Cheers was a good

Megan:

show. It was such a good show and I watched it when I was little on reruns and so, I mean, it was still on when I was really young, but I wanna watch it, watch it, and really get it this time and really fully appreciate it for what it was.'cause it was a good show.

Katiuscia:

Weren't all the characters on Cheers. I've seen things online where it's, oh, this care, this one was 30, supposed to be 35 years old or something.

Megan:

Oh yeah. And they all looked 50 at least.

Katiuscia:

Kind of like the Golden Girls. Yeah. The Golden Girls were supposed to be so young. I think I've surpassed that age.

Megan:

No, they were like 55. But no, the Golden Girls were, some of them were younger than some of the sex in the city characters.

Katiuscia:

Oh, okay.

Megan:

Something like that, but they, or they were right around that age and it was for the movie or I don't know. There was a correlation and it was shocking. Wow.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Megan:

But if you put updated hairstyles on the Golden Girls, they don't look that old.

Katiuscia:

I would have to see that. I would have, I'm sure someone, it's, it's on the internet. It's

Megan:

a trip.

Katiuscia:

Okay. Because that would probably definitely change my perspective.'cause those women are just, and then I think it was just the time period.'cause the kitchen and the houses and all the things the, oh my gosh. Yeah.

Megan:

Blanche with her shoulder pla Shoulder pads.

Katiuscia:

Shoulder

Megan:

pads down at the rusty anchor.

Katiuscia:

That's right. I recently, a couple weeks ago, I had a couple hours and I thought, I'm gonna watch a show.'cause I just wanted to completely unwind. And there was a show, I don't know if you ever saw it. It's called What We Do In The Shadows.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia:

It's so stupid. It's amazing though. It's vampires in Long Island, so there was a movie. Okay.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

There was a movie called What We Do In The Shadows. I never saw the movie. This was the TV show that FX had done, and I discovered it during COVID lockdown and I was obsessed. So it's this. This group, they live in a house together. It's a trio of vam. Oh, there's four vampires. It is so stupid, but it's also phenomenal. And it's a documentary almost like the office. So the camera's following them around and they're talking to the cam. I mean it's, it's worth a watch. It's on Hulu. I don't like that. I have to fast forward or wait for the commercials'cause I can't fast forward. But it's definitely worth a watch.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

It's stupid. And inappropriate. So I love it. It's everything that I love. Stupid and inappropriate and not really dark.'cause it's funny, dark self-care wise, I'd say the thing that gives me the most joy is getting out of town. So probably the biggest thing I did for self-care in the summer was I went to Park City on this retreat. With 22 other amazing women from all over the country, and that helped reset my mind and helped put me on this really good trajectory that I'm on. So beneficial. The coach is amazing. That was a really good experience. That was probably the biggest and best thing I've done for self-care this year, but also, travel for me is always something that I love to do. Travel is. That's how I just reset my whole soul, get out.

Megan:

I like to travel, but I also just love being at home. So I did get to spend about 36 hours all by myself at my house, just me and the puppy, and that was a pretty nice chill time.

Katiuscia:

I think as long as we're doing our duties to really. Play our part in our own self-care cult. That's all we can really ask for, and we ask everyone the same. Do what you can, but always do better. So if you think you're doing something good, it has been spoken,

Megan:

it has

Katiuscia:

that you need to do better, whatever it is, yeah, just always take it the step up if you need a trip, if that's what helps you. If you need a bath and do it just. But give yourself the time. And the fact that you get time by yourself sometimes is so crucial. And I love your volume 25 self-care. These are the things we need because they've been ordered not by us, we're just the messengers. I mean, AGA Menon says,

Megan:

yeah, he does say we,

Katiuscia:

I don't wanna get in trouble with him either.

Megan:

I still dunno how we're gonna monetize this cult.'cause I feel like that's a, a component,

Katiuscia:

uh, retreats.

Megan:

Oh, okay.

Katiuscia:

In foreign places?

Megan:

Oh, not our own retreat center that we can have full control over.

Katiuscia:

I mean eventually, but in the beginning, retreats and as much as everyone likes Thailand, I'm gonna say no because in the nineties I saw broke down palace.

Megan:

Is that the one where the girl gets arrested for unknowingly smuggling drugs?

Katiuscia:

Yep.

Megan:

Oh yeah. I think we were all traumatized by that.

Katiuscia:

I will not go to Thailand because of that, because I am convinced that somehow a little tin of drugs is gonna make it in my backpack to go on an overnight trip to another island with you and some random person that smuggles it in my thing. So no Thailand, it's not happening.

Megan:

Yeah,

Katiuscia:

people love it though. They go, everyone talks about it and they always say, you really should go. The cost is amazing. Your dollar stretches far, and I think my dollar won't stretch anywhere when I am in a Thai prison with cockroaches that go in my ear when I'm sleeping on the floor.

Megan:

Oh,

Katiuscia:

because that happened also to Cape Beck and Sale, and I will not, is that who?

Megan:

That was?

Katiuscia:

Claire Danes and Kate back in sale. Claire. Claire

Megan:

Danes. Okay.

Katiuscia:

But Kate's the one that got the thing in her ear and then. Spoiler alert if no one's seen it. But I mean,

Megan:

we're talking about got a 25-year-old

Katiuscia:

movie here. Everyone's seen it. I What's your, what was your verdict on that? I really thought that Kate Beckinsale took the drugs and Claire Danes literally took one for the team because she was kind of the mess up girl. And Kate Beckinsale had this bright future and I think she took it for the team and stayed in that prison and was gonna appeal and do whatever and just kind of live her life in this prison. I don't think that. Uh, that, that's my, that's how I ended the movie. Thank

Megan:

you. I don't remember it well enough, but Oh,

Katiuscia:

you should rewatch it.

Megan:

Like, I remember watching it, but I don't remember those details.

Katiuscia:

Oh, well only one of them got out at the end.

Megan:

Oh, well.

Katiuscia:

And it was Claire Danes pushing Cape Beck and Sale because her parents had gone to see them and they yelled and scolded at Claire Danes for getting the daughter into this predicament anyway, and I really think that it was the daughter.

Megan:

Yeah. I feel like for most of high school I was. The mess up friend, even though I didn't mess up that much in high school, I was a pretty good kid, but a lot of girls that I was friends with were the goody two shoes kind of girls. And so I, that, that tracks, that seems like a realistic plot line.

Katiuscia:

It was a very, yeah. Also terrifying enough that Katu show will never go to Thailand. Okay. I don't care if someone's getting married there and it's the best wedding ever and everything is paid for with a first class ticket, I think I'm never going,

Megan:

oh, I, if somebody was gonna pay for it, I, I would probably go,

Katiuscia:

mm, okay.

Megan:

But I'd have all my shit on lockdown.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. I don't think I'm doing it Anyways, we would go on a retreat.

Megan:

Okay. Again, I still say this is either the best or the worst cult in in the world.

Katiuscia:

It's going to be the best. It's just gonna take time. I think everything takes a little bit of time.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

You know what I mean? Yeah. You've gotta build the momentum. We still are trying to lock down exactly what we're calling it, because we want to be all encompassing, but also get our message across a cross and we don't wanna make it like the church of Right.

Megan:

Right. No, because,

Katiuscia:

so,

Megan:

I mean, I'm still gonna mass on Sunday, so.

Katiuscia:

Right. So we can't let it conflict I

Megan:

overstep there.

Katiuscia:

No, no. So it just has to be some beautiful title that encompasses everything that we're about. Self-care, harmony

Megan:

for entertainment purposes only,

Katiuscia:

of course. But we would love input from anyone so you know, to write in and email us and let us know. If you wanna be a founding member of this cult Oh yeah. You could. We could have, we could have different levels.

Megan:

Oh, sure, sure.

Katiuscia:

If you wanna be a founding member and help us create the structure a little more than we already have, because there are number ones in number twos there are the mm-hmm. You know, you have the, the sergeants and things like that. The henchmen, the henchmen. Or the Flava Flav.'cause you were gonna be the Flava Flav you said. And

Megan:

the first mate.

Katiuscia:

The first mate. So you have those people, but then you have officers.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

Right. Yeah. So

Megan:

I don't want it to be too military though.

Katiuscia:

No, it wouldn't be militant. It, it would, well, we'd come up with different names, but I'm just saying the order of the hierarchy. Okay. You have to have a hierarchy.

Megan:

Well, sure. Different tiers.

Katiuscia:

Different tiers. I feel like that's

Megan:

a, maybe they get a better meal package

Katiuscia:

at the retreat.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. Okay.

Megan:

Is this a commune? Did we decide? I can't remember. I really can't remember anything that we've already laid out in the charter. Do we? Is it a commune?

Katiuscia:

We are going to really nail down a charter soon. We're gonna really create every detail that goes into that.

Megan:

I'm real bad at a group project. So I don't

Katiuscia:

really

Megan:

know that

Katiuscia:

I wanna, I'm good at it. I

Megan:

don't know that I wanna do

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

Group project living.

Katiuscia:

Okay. Well I'm, I'm pretty good at group project, so we're just going to nail down the rules. But yes, founding members open to that just for your creative input, I guess. And feedback, constructive feedback, creative input. Not militant at all, but yeah. Are we on a commune? Yes. It's a village.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

We're not gonna call it a commune. I

Megan:

mean, not the village.

Katiuscia:

No, no. Will we just consider it like a homestead?

Megan:

Oh, very current events. Very,

Katiuscia:

yeah.

Megan:

Trending.

Katiuscia:

Sure. Well, we have a bunker.

Megan:

Yes, but only for top tier people,

Katiuscia:

obviously. Yeah,

Megan:

for

Katiuscia:

sure. But there are so many random cults. None of them are this cool. Ours is gonna be amazing. Ours is gonna be cool because it's going to, it's, I'm telling you, it's gonna be the best. You don't worry about it. It will make money. We will be fine.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

Okay. Speaking of, I've been doing some research into cults. I love

Megan:

this and I went down a fun little rabbit hole. I read a really random article. About a professor at a very liberal college, uh, whatever the professor calls them, intentional communities, and she says that they only get labeled cults when things go wrong. So I like that we're already ahead of the curve. We're just, it's been decided, but then the article also incorrectly goes on to state that only the IRS can declare something, a cult, which is not true. The IRS just decides if your religion has tax exempt status or not. But in US Legal code, there is no legal definition of a cult or a religion. Because that would violate First Amendment rights.

Katiuscia:

Hmm.

Megan:

However, you can find some general cult guidelines, if you will. So things like a charismatic leader who is the ultimate source of authority and power. So we have Agamemnon, our blue beta fish, who is immortal

Katiuscia:

and us because we're, we speak for.

Megan:

I'm gonna go ahead and say I am not that charismatic, but uh, that's fine.

Katiuscia:

It's gonna be us though. It has to be us.

Megan:

Okay. I mean, you get a couple couple drinks in me, actually.

Katiuscia:

Couple drinks. Charisma. We'll get you charismatic. We'll make it happen.

Megan:

We need an ideology or a belief system that answers all of life's questions. That's really the, like I was talking about, hitting the pain points. Sure. We need coercive control and manipulation. Isolation. Very us versus them mentality. Suppression of descent. So what are we gonna do to people who say bad things about Agnan?

Katiuscia:

They're out.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

You can't do that.

Megan:

You can't sit with us.

Katiuscia:

You can't sit with us at all. No, no, and no.

Megan:

And then you need exploitation, which in this case would be money.

Katiuscia:

Sure.

Megan:

I don't need to. Use, you know, sex as exploitation. Pass on that. I don't wanna be that kind of cult total commitment and sacrifice from our members. And unusual or extreme beliefs.

Katiuscia:

I mean, I think we've,

Megan:

I think we're just about there.

Katiuscia:

I think we're there. Okay. I think it's, yeah. And honestly, there's nothing really negative about our cult. Our cult

Megan:

is, except for the. Financial exploitation.

Katiuscia:

Right. So let me rephrase. There's nothing really negative in the sense of there's no danger zone. So yes, we need, I mean, we need your money, so of course financial exploitation and if you get ostracized mm-hmm. Or excommunicated from our cult, anything you've given us is still ours. So this isn't just financial exploitation on a. Money. Give us your bank account level. This is sign your shit over. So this is deeds to houses. The vehicle is not in your name anymore. Anything like that will belong to this organization, this community.

Megan:

Okay. Cults generally offer something we can't have in our normal everyday lives.

Katiuscia:

You don't have time in your everyday life to take care fully of yourself to find what it is. What are your internal pain points with yourself? What are the self doubts you have? What are the things that you wish you could change or do better if you had the time? We explore all of these options and make it very. Easy and attainable for people to have them while living in a very peaceful, calm community where they're providing value not only to themselves and receiving from their community, but. They're bettering themselves, like, how do you say that? They're bettering themselves every day, which is something that, I don't care how much balance you have in your life, there is no way that anyone with a job, a family, a pet, anything, can fully immerse themselves into handling their own personal shit and be exactly the person that they should be. But in our culture, you can.

Megan:

When you're not building bunkers.

Katiuscia:

Yeah, for us.

Megan:

Okay, so speaking of fun cults, I have a cult to tell you about, a real one that really happened. This is a true story. So between Boise and Portland, along I 84 is a town called the Dalles Oregon.

Katiuscia:

The Dalles.

Megan:

The Dalles, it's the county seat of Wasco County, and it's right along the Columbia River. It's a cute little town. I've been there many, many times. So just outside of the Dalles in rural Wasco County was a little tiny town called Antelope, Oregon, and in 1981, Rajneesh, I don't remember his last name, Indian Man from India. Who also went by the name of Osho declared that he was a guru, and he and his followers moved into Antelope, Oregon and built a compound and renamed the whole town after him. Rajneesh Peram. His followers were Rajneeshees.

Katiuscia:

Mm.

Megan:

They. Being an Indian guru, it's not surprising that he was very into yoga and meditation, except that regular yoga and meditation wasn't good enough for him. So he created his own brand of yoga and meditation that he insisted that his followers practice. He insisted that his followers live fully in the world. Whereas a lot of yogis want you to kind of live disconnected from the world. He wanted everybody to live fully in the world and participate in society and politics and things like that, but be completely disconnected from the world. And so the pretty much any part of Oregon outside of the I five Corridor of Portland, Corvallis, Salem, Eugene, is. Pretty agricultural, they're, they're pretty conservative Christian values, things like that. They were not super pleased about this new community in their county, and so county residents fought pretty hard to kick them out, but they really couldn't do much about it, and they, this community just kept growing. There were whole busloads of people coming in all the time, and they were building whole buildings. They had huge canvas tents. They had, it was a whole community on this property, this massive property.

Katiuscia:

Wait, how many people ended up being there? Was there people there? We're talking thousands

Megan:

probably.

Katiuscia:

So, wait, they took over antelope organ? No. More antelope organ?

Megan:

I don't think so.

Katiuscia:

Oh.

Megan:

And the residents were kind of on the verge of getting their way, and a local election was coming up. And so the Rajneeshees put up their own candidates, and in an attempt to sway the election, they decided to incapacitate as many voters as they could in the biggest voting block of Wasco County, which is the dolls. So they went to, I think 10 different restaurants all over the dolls and poisoned all their salad bars. And this is in the eighties when salad bars was the thing.

Katiuscia:

What

Megan:

they poisoned these salad bars with salmonella, got hundreds of people like violently sick.

Katiuscia:

Oh,

Megan:

there was a plan, I believe, I could be wrong, but I believe to also threaten the water supply. And then Rajneesh actually rolled the bus on his number two. She was in charge of all the poisoning attempts and all of that. She was really, he was just this lovable old guy, old GU guru, and she was kind of the diabolical mastermind behind the whole thing. And so she. She was the one doing the dirty deeds and the district attorney, the US District attorney for Oregon, started investigating them at the request of the Rajneesh. And so this number two, Sila was actually convicted of attempted murder because there was a thwarted assassination attempt on the US district attorney or US attorney. I don't know if that's different, but anyway, on the US Attorney of Oregon.

Katiuscia:

Oh yeah. Okay.

Megan:

And so he fully went. Threw her under the bus.

Katiuscia:

Was he the one that threw her under the bus about the poisoning?

Megan:

All of it.

Katiuscia:

Okay. Because did he win whatever election he needed or did he win?

Megan:

I don't to in, I think it was found out, but it turns out that most of the people that were getting off of these buses were homeless people from Portland and Seattle and Major California cities, and they were being brought in with the promise of. This nice life as long as you vote our way and do the things that we say. And it was free labor and things like that. So the food poisoning attack was in 1984. It was the first and largest bioterrorist attack in US history. And by 1985, Rajneesh's, number two lady, or number one, LA whatever, his lady friend. Was convicted of several charges. She was sentenced to four and a half years in prison. She got out after 29 months for good behavior and was immediately deported to West Germany, and then she later moved to Switzerland where she was also arrested for another attempted assassination crime. Where

Katiuscia:

was she from originally?

Megan:

I believe Switzerland and the Rajneesh moved back to India. Where he lived out the rest of his life with some of his devoted followers. Wow. But they had, here it is, 1985 or 86, and they disbanded this whole commune. I heard a story, and I don't know if it's true or not, but that they were selling off all their big campus tents and building materials and all kinds of things. So people were going like, it was the world's best garage sale.

Katiuscia:

What is going on with that town now?

Megan:

So there is a documentary.

Katiuscia:

Have you Google? Have you Google Earthed it?

Megan:

I have not. Okay. There's a documentary on Netflix. It's called Wild, wild Country.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

It's very good.

Katiuscia:

All about this,

Megan:

all about the Rajneeshees.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

It's so good.

Katiuscia:

Wow.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

So how far would this place be from Portland?

Megan:

How far is the Dallas from Portland? I'm going to say about an hour and a half.

Katiuscia:

Oh,

Megan:

around a half, two hours.

Katiuscia:

Okay, so we're not talking very far. No,

Megan:

I'm telling you, I, if you get off those major freeway corridors in Oregon, it is rural.

Katiuscia:

I've driven through Eastern Oregon. Is that the same thing?

Megan:

This would be north central Oregon.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

More than eastern. Eastern I consider like bend and stuff to be Eastern Oregon. Oh, kind of. I mean, I guess that's more central. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Katiuscia:

I've never been to Portland or Bend. I've driven through Oregon. Once via, I was on a train and then once through Eastern Oregon. So that's really my only knowledge of Oregon. But that's very close to Portland. So big city.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Hence all the homeless people. I get it. But yeah, I'd be curious to see what happened to that say. Wild poisoning, a salad bar.

Megan:

Yep. 10 salad bars.

Katiuscia:

That is so rude, number one. Number two, have you ever been to the Albertsons on Marketplace Salad Bar?

Megan:

No. That's a really good one. I think I've only ever been in there one time, but I used to live down the block from a Pizza Hut.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

And Pizza Hut had the best, the best salad bar

Katiuscia:

back in the day.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I don't think I ever went into a pizza. Hu. I mean I, we had soup plantation in San Diego. I don't know if you have, if you ever had that here.

Megan:

I don't think so.

Katiuscia:

That was basically a place that was salad bar soup. Soup plantation was phenomenal. And then it closed, but it was just, you could get whatever you wanted on that salad. But I'm telling you, Albertson's marketplace on Fairview. Whenever I'm in that area and I realize that I haven't eaten, then I'll just make myself a little salad and it's

Megan:

okay.

Katiuscia:

Fine. But yeah, that's a good point. I, I can't imagine poisoning a salad bar.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

That's next level psychotic behavior, I would think.

Megan:

Oh yeah. That lady was nuts in the documentary. She's just Absolutely. Oh, wackadoodle.

Katiuscia:

Wow.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I love this. Were they all, so he was this guru. Were they all sleeping with him? Oh, probably. Okay. Because that's kind of a typical thing of these charismatic, not us. Yeah. But these charismatic other leaders, I never understand any kind of polygamy. Whenever I hear polygamy in anything, there's that show on, I don't know if it's on T-L-C-T-L-C.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I don't understand.

Megan:

No

Katiuscia:

sister wives. I don't understand how, how

Megan:

No. It's not like Brad Pitt or David Beckham are having sister wives. These guys are yucky. But again, it's like the lemon curd. You convinced me that that was two different lemon curds and I was full send on board with it. So I guess if you brainwash somebody enough to tell them that this 80-year-old, 70-year-old Indian man who probably doesn't bathe a lot. Is like the pinnacle of sexiness, I guess. I guess you could convince some people

Katiuscia:

there's just, I feel like that is always a cult thing that the women are, you've got the followers, but then a lot of the women are in love or obsessed with the leader, and so he will exploit that in. That's the sexual exploitation aspect, but I just never understand. People who legitimately this polygamy thing and multiple I, I can't get it. Also legality wise, who's on the house. That show is so twisted because it's in one person's name and all the rest are just kind of in verbiage. It's not really legitimate, it's not legal. So you just think you had kids with all these women and. Ugh.

Megan:

In a lot of the fundamentalist polygamist societies, all of the wives after the first wife are not married in the eyes of the state. And so that's a single mother with 35 children and she doesn't have a job. Therefore, she gets food stamps and WIC and welfare and all the government assistance.

Katiuscia:

Oh, there's so many levels and layers,

Megan:

so we're all paying for that.

Katiuscia:

Just stop.

Megan:

Yeah,

Katiuscia:

don't do it. Don't do it. Girl. Don't. Don't do it, girl. Just be married to one. Just have one and don't be a sister wife.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

That's weird.

Megan:

It is weird.

Katiuscia:

I was an only child though. I'm really good about sharing things, but there's a limit I feel. I don't wanna share my drinks, you know?

Megan:

No.

Katiuscia:

And I don't wanna share a spouse. I think that that's probably borderline. No, no. It's fully super disgusting.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

So I'm okay. Not, I'm okay just being single. I'm, I'm good. It's fair. I'm good with it because I am not about to play in that sandbox where other people don't wash up.

Megan:

I have been known to write my name on food in my own house.

Katiuscia:

In your own house,

Megan:

so that my own family, half of whom I created, don't eat my food. I try really hard not to do that because I feel like that's gross behavior for a mom. So sometimes I'll just, if it's like good chocolate or something, I will hide it.

Katiuscia:

Absolutely. And there is no shame in this. Megan. No shame at all. I don't have to do that in my house, but I understand where you would. And I had a roommate who's a good friend of mine. So back in college I had a roommate who, we were in a suite and one of the suite mates was going into her room and taking her food.'cause she always had the best snacks and food. And one of them would go in there when she was in the shower or when she was in class and take her shit.

Megan:

No.

Katiuscia:

Yes. And so she started writing her not only names, she started writing messages, notes on it, and then she started to see that her stuff stopped getting taken because it was just nasty grams, but also get out of someone's drawers.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I'm okay with you putting your name on it or hiding it. Hiding it, I feel like is probably. It is probably the move for you.

Megan:

Yeah. I also, when I was in veterinary medicine, we all put our names, we had a label maker that we would all put our names on our own pens, and so to this day at my house, there were pens that say Megan, and everybody's like, can I use this pen? Maybe,

Katiuscia:

are you a pen Steeler?

Megan:

I'm not a pen steeler, but if I'm at a restaurant and they hand me a real good pen, then there's the kind of pen that if I see it, I know I will trade them. I have pens in my purse. I'll trade you. Can I have that pen? I'll give you this pen.

Katiuscia:

I love pens.

Megan:

I love pens.

Katiuscia:

I do, when I worked in restaurants, I would always have, you know, in my apron with my little book, I'd have six or seven pens clipped on because you can never account for someone who's gonna take them. But I also like good pens, so I would have good pens and just know maybe at the end of the night, three of them are getting tributed out because somebody stole my pen. And that's fine. But then when I see a really good pen somewhere, I don't do it at restaurants because. Having been a server. You understand sometimes they don't have another pen at the moment, but I will do it at doctor's offices because they typically have multiple. So if doctor's offices are investing in good pens, I'm taking 'em.

Megan:

If that's a branded pen, then they want you to have it. They want it in circulation in the world.

Katiuscia:

And even if it's not branded, but they just have multiples, like a pilot, something, I'm taking it.

Megan:

I still have pens from the hotel that I used to work at. Those were, I loved those pens and they still work.

Katiuscia:

Hotel pens are great.

Megan:

And that was. Like 15 years ago, and they still work. No one's allowed to use those pens.

Katiuscia:

They're thin.

Megan:

No. Are

Katiuscia:

these thin?

Megan:

No. I don't do those thin pens. Oh. But I don't want a big old fat pen either. I

Katiuscia:

a normal human

Megan:

pen.

Katiuscia:

I like the, like Hyatt, Hilton, Venetian. They've got these thin little pens that I have and they're perfect to stash everywhere. Backpacks for travel next to my Irish whiskey. Everywhere that I need to put travel things. Those pens go because it's just so easy and they're every purse. They're small. I like 'em. I like RSVP pens. Now I think I've graduated to RSVPs. Are you a blue

Megan:

ink or a black ink?

Katiuscia:

Black ink.

Megan:

Oh, okay.

Katiuscia:

But then I'm also, I have a desktop calendar that I color code to things, so then I have, I do

Megan:

too.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. So I have felt, I used to use Sharpie, find ultra find tip markers, but then I couldn't find all the colors that I liked and one would run out. So I just got a pack of felt tip, almost paper matey, something like that. So I'm excited. I haven't opened them yet. I like office supplies. I've got. Boxes, fabric boxes that are all labeled in my office. This is Pens, pencils, and I'm a nerd and I like a label machine maker. It's a lot of fun for me. I love office supplies.

Megan:

I do too.

Katiuscia:

Post-its, I love it all.

Megan:

Oh yeah,

Katiuscia:

yeah.

Megan:

Post-its all day long. Yeah. Yep. I'm a Blue Ink girl.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Megan:

Or

Katiuscia:

a color?

Megan:

A color.

Katiuscia:

I love a color.

Megan:

Not red though. Get the fuck outta here with that. Which is funny. As an editor you would think I'd be red ink and everything. But I recently bought a pack of pens that I thought were gonna be fun neon colors and they were all black.

Katiuscia:

Oh, disappointing.

Megan:

I was so sad. What? Hard. But they were write so nice. So I can't really be that mad about it. It's a silver lining I guess. But

Katiuscia:

I think when you have an English brain though,'cause I have that also with my degree, whenever I see anything, I am notorious for. If people send me texts or emails, they know that I read things with a red pen in my mind. Oh, yeah. So I will spot the error immediately and then I'm almost unable to look past it. So that's a let it go type thing.

Megan:

It depends on what I'm reading and who it's from. If I'm at work, the, then I'll spot the error. I don't proofread people's text messages to me.'cause I've had people say, I'm really nervous to send you a message. And I, I mean, if I don't like you, I will, but, but I, I find errors a lot and it depends on if I, I may not say anything either. And I like to look at people's websites. Just because I, to see what's, what looks good, what's going on for when I have to make websites for people, and I really struggle with, do I email this company, this small business and tell them that they have a misplaced comma in their website,

Katiuscia:

a misplaced comma. I don't know. But if it's a restaurant and it's a menu, 'cause I know I've been at restaurants and I've taken pictures of the menu to send to you and I'm just, you got, someone's gotta say something and I don't wanna say it because I'm there. I also don't care enough because I'll never go back to the restaurant. But when I see things misspelled in restaurants, drives me batty. Yeah. It's a restaurant. You should have had 17 people proofread that. You can't do it incorrectly.

Megan:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Anyways, it just drives me crazy. That should be a thing in, in our cult also, is that

Megan:

you have to have proper grammar.

Katiuscia:

Grammar. We're proper. We don't, no slang allowed at the retreats. We really try to be eloquent.

Megan:

Like high tea.

Katiuscia:

No, not high tea. I'm gonna

Megan:

fail at that.

Katiuscia:

No, not high tea, but just, I don't know,

Megan:

like the queen's English.

Katiuscia:

No, but just proper grammar.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

Which, we'll, we'll be mellow about it, low level about it.

Megan:

So at a certain tier you get a dictionary and a thesaurus.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. I think that that's a, that would be an like an initiation gift almost. Okay. That,

Megan:

okay. Well that got way off topic.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Megan:

But I think if, if people wanna join our cult, they can give us lots of money. And bring nice pens and coffee.

Katiuscia:

Bath bombs are appreciated

Megan:

and office supply products,

Katiuscia:

office supply products, her cold is really branching into. I love a funky pen though too, so I have a little avocado pen that lights up. It's great. So, yeah, our cult's branching out. But if you have any ideas for it, I would say write into the email. It's in the notes, and or shout out on Instagram to us. What

Megan:

is our email?

Katiuscia:

Our email is Don't even bother. podcast@gmail.com.

Megan:

And on Instagram

Katiuscia:

at Don't Even Bother Pod. That's also what it is on YouTube.

Megan:

Okay.

Katiuscia:

And then wherever you get your podcast, make sure you just follow and get the notifications for new releases. Like and

Megan:

subscribe.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Megan:

Okay. Well, so first, first here of joining the Cult that has yet to be named is to like and subscribe, follow, get, notified all the things.

Katiuscia:

And I guess have a good day to everyone except the influencers who every product online, you need to stop.

Megan:

Stop with the tapping of the fingernails on the product. It's

Katiuscia:

not a SMR,

Megan:

it's gross. It's bs. Okay. Bye bye.