Don't Even Bother

#16: Love, Loss, and Resilience — With Carmen

• Katiuscia + Megan • Episode 16

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0:00 | 47:02

Grief changes you — but it doesn’t have to break you.

We're joined by our friend Carmen for a deeply honest conversation about love, loss, and resilience.

We talk about navigating grief, surviving life-altering loss, and the quiet strength it takes to keep going when life doesn’t look the way you imagined. Carmen shares personal insights on healing, emotional endurance, and how resilience is built — not overnight, but through showing up again and again.

This episode explores what it means to grieve without rushing the process, how love continues after loss, and why vulnerability can become one of our greatest sources of strength.

If you’ve experienced loss, are supporting someone who has, or are learning how to carry grief while still living fully — this conversation is for you.

00:00  Introducing Love, Loss, and Resilience
02:40  Carmen’s Story and Personal Journey
07:15  Experiencing Life-Altering Loss
12:30  What Grief Actually Feels Like
18:05  Learning to Live Alongside Loss
23:40  Resilience Isn’t What We Think It Is
29:10  Love That Continues After Loss
34:20  Emotional Healing Over Time
39:05  Supporting Others Through Grief
44:10  Final Reflections on Strength and Hope

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speaker:

Don't even bother.

katiuscia:

Can we though, talk about this coffee for a second because I'm obsessed. This coffee's incredible. I know. I wanna marry this coffee.

carmen:

Not too sweet.

katiuscia:

This is only a seasonal flavor and I'm very upset about it. However, it's fine. Okay, so well,

megan:

should we shout 'em out? This is Jitters by Jane downtown Boise.

katiuscia:

Hey, jitters. Absolutely jitters by Jane. So good. We love, we love, love Jane.

megan:

You could

katiuscia:

talk Jane, sponsor, answer the

megan:

podcast if you want.

katiuscia:

Jane, we love you and the jitters you give us, but literally I've had this coffee three days in a row and I am even more obsessed than I was before

carmen:

and felt more relaxed just walking into their little shop.

katiuscia:

Yeah, super. Can

carmen:

we just talked about that. Super cute. And the employees super chill. Good

megan:

customer service. Super.

katiuscia:

Yeah.

megan:

10 outta 10,

katiuscia:

yeah. Yeah, I love it. Which is why now I'm kind of bummed that I live so far from downtown, but. We love our jitters by Jane and just here to, to say that to the world.

megan:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

because it's really good. Don't miss out. Yeah, don't, don't miss out. Okay. This is Carmen. Carmen. Hi Carmen. Hey, we're so excited. Hey Megan. We're so excited that you're here. Hey girl. Hey. So excited that you're here. Yeah. We also feel like we're due for a little bit of a mental health chat. Mm-hmm. And you are not only a fricking amazing human that I'm so lucky to have as a friend.

carmen:

Aw man.

katiuscia:

But you have had, thank you. Quite a story in your life.

carmen:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

And I would love you to share a little bit about how that all shaped you to being this amazing person that you are now that gets to grace the world with your presence. Oh

carmen:

boy. Are you ready?

katiuscia:

We're ready. Let's go. Buckle

carmen:

up.

katiuscia:

Let's do it.

carmen:

So do you want me to talk about the time I found my mother deceased when I was 11, or the time my husband had to be pulled off life support because hey.

megan:

I'd

carmen:

like it. Well, they're equally, you know, shit fun. And I just wanna say that my secret to resiliency has been humor.

megan:

Oh, a hundred percent.

carmen:

Absolutely. Sense of humor, because if you don't try to look on the light side of it, it's gonna take you down quick. So, um, I will talk about my husband because he deserves the time and he was. Is an amazing person in my book. He was an angel that I got to have in my life for a little while and I met him. His name's Dan. I met him when I was 16 at the Twin Falls County Fair in Little Father Idaho, which is where I'm from, have Wildcat. And uh, he literally picked me out of a line. We were at the fair. I was in a line for a ride. And he said, Hey, who's that redhead over there dressed in all white? And he just happened to be with a friend of ours and he's like, oh, that's just Carmen. Just Carmen. We worked at a little grocery store together and that's how this guy knew me. So brought Dan over and introduced me to him and he was, he was my best friend. He was my safe place. I came from a childhood of. You know, not, not much security, lots of addiction going on, and my family and Dan was my normal, I guess you could call whatever normal is, but it was my safe place and that was 16. And then we did finally end up getting married when I was 23 in. 2004, we went to Spain to go see my family. We flew there because my family lives in northern Spain and we ended up getting into a pretty bad car accident. A few people did die that day instantly. My husband survived the wreck initially, but he was on life support for 15 days. My daughter was in. The hospital for 10 days, and then finally at the end of those 15 days, he was on life support. I. I did decide to take him off. And I'll tell you why, because I couldn't have done this if we hadn't have had a conversation about it. And you know, at 30, 31 years old, you're not having this conversation with your spouse. But we were sitting there watching Seinfeld one night and he turns and looks at me and he says, you know, if I can't fly a plane, he was a pilot. If I can't fly my plane, I don't see the reason in being here, and I'm ready to go. He was a believer, so I said, oh, you're being silly. Why are we talking about this? And he's like, no, seriously, I'm ready. To be with Jesus. He could have came yesterday. And it's not that life was hard, we just, we were believers and knew that that's where we're gonna go someday. So I just thought someday was gonna be in our eighties or nineties, but, but I did end up taking him off of life support and um, you know, that was a hard time, especially being in a foreign country. But 10 years later. 2014, I end up getting remarried again and I have another daughter, my youngest daughter, so two daughters now. Life is good now. I have a good job. I have a cat who's a spy. I have a dog who's very codependent, and I have this. Wonderful husband who lets me grieve, who encourages me to talk about it. I've had another chance at being happy again, and I would not be Who? Steve? My new husband. Hey Steve. He, I would not be the wife that he wanted if I hadn't have gone through. That situation with Dan. If I had not been the wife, I was to Dan and then ultimately lost Dan and the 10 years of life that I lived between losing Dan and marrying Steve, I was the person that he wanted to be. So life is good. Have I moved on? No, I don't think I should have to. Moving on,

megan:

I don't. I think that's such a. I, I wanna say misnomer. I know that's not the word, but I don't think moving on is the way. I don't think that's a thing. Yeah. That you can do with such huge grief.

carmen:

Yeah.

megan:

You just learn to live a little bit differently.

carmen:

Yeah. And he, he was so funny. He just made people laugh and I still laugh about things he used to say. So if I move on from him, that's means I'm moving on from the good things, the good memories moving on. Also means, yeah, you're gonna not talk about that person as much. But I talk about him like he's still present. I still talk with our daughter about him and bring up memories, you know, check in with her on his birthday or the day he passed and holidays, you know, like he's still here. And I would encourage anybody who's just lost someone to get a journal and just write down everything, even the little things that you think are still. Right now you're going to forget them, so please write them down and read them. Um,

katiuscia:

sorry. You're fine.

carmen:

This,

katiuscia:

if you need to cry, I'll get you tissues too. It's a heavy, it's heavy shit. Yeah. But I love that you're talking about it. Thank you.

carmen:

So I will say, yeah, grief can be fatal sometimes, but don't be afraid to go through with it because it will find you. It will come and hunt you down and it will find you and you have to face it. If you don't, like I said, it's going to find you and you're going to think you're gonna have a good day and then all of a sudden, bam, there you are bawling your eyes out 'cause you haven't dealt with it. Yeah, it might seem easier to. To just sweep it under the rug, but it'll catch up to you eventually. So go through it, have the ugly tears, find the people you trust and talk about it. Talk about the ugly things. Um, I'll also say that grieving is harder when your relationship with that person is not good. There was a time in my marriage with Dan, I made the man cry, and I remember exactly what we were talking about. I remember the day clearly, and I still think about it to this day. And we had forgiven each other. We had a fight. I was being petty, probably going through PMS that day, who knows? But I still to this day, think about it. And I would encourage you to say, I love you often forgive each other often because if that person is gone the next day, you are going to think about that and it's going to come back so. Uh, try to have a good relationship with those you love. Yeah. It's hard sometimes, but if they're gone, it's so much harder to grieve when you are carrying guilt on top of that too. So, I will say in my marriage with Steve, I try to practice that, forgiving him, telling him I love him as much as possible, memorizing his face, memorizing his voice. Taking little moments and just trying to remember them. I even write them down now. This is what we did today. This is what he said. This is a joke. He said, this is just silly things that you may not think about wanting to remember, but I may have a little bit of PTSD and if this man leaves me, uh. Like the first one. Not that they leave on purpose, but you know, I wanna be able to remember the these things. And I would also say that forgiveness is not, just let me back up. The circumstances surrounding my husband's death. It was an accident, but it was very preventable accident. We ran a head-on collision, somebody fell asleep at the wheel and. Because of that, I've had a hard time with trying to accept the cause behind it. The person who caused the accident never said, Hey, I'm sorry. Never said I made a mistake. I took, you know, three people, ultimately, four people died, never admitted to any wrongdoing. Instead, this person took on a victim role like they were the one who should have been apologized to, and it is just very messy. But I was angry for a very long time, and I realized that, and this is also part of the resiliency, is forgiveness, forgiveness. It is not for that person. It's for me. It's for you. Because if you let that bitterness get a root in your soul, it's going to spread like wheat, like a wildfire, and you're not going to move forward. Instead, you're going to live this life of loneliness, of anger. That's a very, very sad place to be, and I've watched people do it. My own grandmother, I watched her do it after my mother passed away, her daughter passed away and she decided that she was going to live in that day, stay in that day that my mother passed. And she did not move on from that. And it just came out very ugly. She started drinking more. She. It pushed away almost all of her grandchildren. It was just very sad and I watched that and I decided in that moment, watching her do that and deciding when I found myself so angry at this person who caused the accident that killed my husband, I'm not going to be that bitter person. He wouldn't want it. I have to go on living for him and continue to see the world for him. Through my eyes, and now I have this new daughter who thank you, God, this child saved me in so many ways. She doesn't even know, but she kept me going and I can't even imagine, you know, what life would've been like had I decided to go down that road of negativity and and bitterness. So I just wanna say that when your world falls apart in that moment. Uh, before I went to turn off the life support from my husband, I went in and talked to him and I pinched him really good a few times just to make sure,

katiuscia:

just to make sure

carmen:

I have to do my own test right. But I was closer to God than I'd ever been in my entire life, and I have grown up. Christian and always knew that God was there and read the Bible. We prayed regularly, but I didn't really understand what it meant to really talk to him and rely on him until your world literally falls apart and nothing. Nothing was there. I mean, I felt like everything was gone at that moment. It's interesting what we find so important in our lives, and then when everything's gone. What's there for you? Well, it was for me, it was Jesus. He was there and I was talking to him and I could hear him, and I know people say, oh, I heard God talk to me today. Well, that happened. To me that day. It's like, well, God told me this today. Okay, well, and I'd wonder, well, how do you know it was him? It had, yeah,

megan:

you just know.

carmen:

You just know. Yeah. And I just knew, and he was like, it's okay. Remember that conversation you had during Seinfeld when he told you it was, okay, if I can't fly my plane, it's okay. And the doctors even told me, even if he does live, you're gonna be taking care of him for a very long time. And that's not what he, he would've wanted, he would've. I think he would've been pretty upset with me. So since then, I've thankfully have not experienced a tragedy, but I do try to have that connection with with Jesus as much as possible, just because I felt so peaceful in that moment, and it was able to follow through with taking him off of life support. And ultimately having him cremated and bringing him home and going through the services that we had and getting through the bitterness and the, the forgiveness, that all would not have been possible without him. So

katiuscia:

I'm gonna jump in and say, I feel, what I would think is going through a tragedy like that. Well, everyone grieves in their own different way. We know this, it's fine. There are so many stages of grief.

carmen:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

But the people who harbor and carry that resentment forever. For me, I find that there's certain things, and we've talked about it, where I'm gonna be a little bit of a bitter beaver about something, but then I feel shitty. Because you're carrying something where it's just not, just let it go, figure it out, whatever it may be. But I do think that a lot of people who are so comfortable carrying that, because then there is, yeah, there is a fact that people who like living in that negativity and that internal riving, they feed off of that negativity. That's how they, they do propelling forward. But I don't think those people have much faith. They're not a good relationship with the Lord, that that's why it's easy, because that's the moment that you're just, well, the world is out to get me and now I have to do this all on my own and this is what happened to me. And you start to, it's a backhanded victimizing of yourself, like, how did I get dealt all these cards? But if you choose another way and you choose to. Move forward in a positive matter and build your resiliency to get to that point. You had a daughter at that point. You now not only had to live, you know, for your husband and see all the things for yourself, but for your daughter who was also affected by this, not only in the accident, but then the rest of her life. So I think it's huge that you've gotten to a point, and I, I do have to shout out your husband now because. That's a beautiful, secure man in his own, in your love for one another that he would allow you to, to make and leave the space for him, and he understands and he stepped in for your girls. There are so many wonderful things that, that he does as well. But I think a lot of people when they just will, like, I'll just close it. Why, but why that was a part of your life. That was

carmen:

he, he puts key dates in his calendar. To remind himself, Hey, Carmen might be having a week this week. And he'll ask me, Hey, you wanna talk about it? And I'm like, no, I'm good today. And it's usually a couple days after where I'm just like,

katiuscia:

Ugh,

carmen:

just break down. He is like, okay. And he'll just sit with me and kind of let me determine where I wanna go with it. But yeah, he's, I wouldn't say he's overly secure with it because. He's not sure what's coming out next. Sometimes outta my mouth because I will get angry sometimes. I still get angry about things, but I have to remind myself, Nope, I need to forgive, otherwise I'm gonna go down that anger road. And he'll just kind of like, okay, are we good today? Are we happy today? Or are we, do we wanna talk memories today or we're just not gonna talk about it at all? He's kind of. It follows my lead on that, but he's definitely my support and keeps my mental health in check for sure.

megan:

That's very cool.

carmen:

Yeah.

megan:

I think that the, the road to bitterness, that's a easy place to be. It's just like a fence. It's a bottom shelf emotion, and it's so easy to just stay there. Oh, yeah. Healing is really hard because you do have to look at yourself and you have to choose the intention. Of healing. And it's hard and it's really hard to do by yourself. It is. But I think anybody who's had, like you described, where there's just nothing, everything's been stripped away, just down to the brass tacks of your life.

carmen:

Mm-hmm.

megan:

And if you do have a faith that's in, if you've had that experience of feeling, God come to you in the absolute rock bottom.

carmen:

Yeah,

megan:

you're always trying to get back to that place.'cause even though it's just an absolute shitty time of your life, it's such a cool experience to know that you're not, you don't have to heal all by yourself.

carmen:

Yeah.

megan:

It's he's,

carmen:

yeah. He's got you.

megan:

Yeah,

carmen:

he definitely had me in that moment. He was carrying me and my daughter was in the hospital for 10 days and I was there with her. My husband was life flighted to a hospital that was three hours away, so, mm-hmm. I didn't even know where he was for a couple of days, or even if the man was alive at that time. We got ahold of the consulate there and finally a couple people came to the hospital. They found me and, and updated me on his condition, but I had nothing in that time. I had my daughter, thank goodness she was there. She was still with me. Yeah. And she was awake and,

megan:

but you're in a whole other. Continent. So you don't even have your family. No. You're just all by yourself. But that's sounds to me like, so that you really could just lean totally on God.

carmen:

Yeah. That's all I had, and thank goodness that's all I had.

megan:

Yeah.

carmen:

Really. So, because I don't know what else could, could give you the peace

megan:

mm-hmm.

carmen:

That you need in that moment. I think what's important on being resilient and. Not that I'm a hundred percent resilient with everything every day because

katiuscia:

life.

carmen:

Yeah, life, right? We have our, it's who all of our experiences are brought us to who we are today, right? And thank goodness for those experiences, and you have to look at it that way. Um, even the bad ones, you can't stay in that place when that happened. You have to move on. And the only thing we have control over is the choices we're going to make next.

megan:

Yep.

carmen:

Otherwise. Like I said, you're just stuck and you're looking back and what could I have done differently? Well, well, nothing. It's in the past. You can't time travel back.

megan:

Yeah. And

carmen:

fix things or do things differently. Would I have taken 'em off life support again? Yes. I would have. Yeah. There was a time when I really struggled with it thinking, well, gosh, what if I had kept him? On for just a couple more days would've woke up. Or there's shows or news stories you hear about people that, oh, they woke up after two years and then I think back, I'm like, should I have just let him hang out for a couple years and then No. No. I can tell you today that I made the right decision. So do

megan:

you think it was easier to make that decision because you weren't at home? Because you're not gonna leave him in a hospital in Spain for two years.

carmen:

Yeah. You know, and I was prepared to rent an apartment right there by the hospital. I was kind of preparing for the long haul. And you know, again, this is where God stepped in. He knew the situation. He knew we weren't home. He knew what was best for me and my daughter at that moment. Obviously, what would be best for me, in my opinion, was having my husband with us, but. Given the circumstances, he made it to where I was forced to make the decision sooner and move on. And again, not moving on without him, but carrying on with life moving forward. Coming back to the states, moving forward. Yeah. Not moving on, moving forward.

katiuscia:

Yeah.

carmen:

Yeah. I like that

katiuscia:

because if you stay in that place long enough in grief and trauma and tragedy, whatever you're experiencing, it is so easy to just get stuck there.

megan:

Yeah,

carmen:

yeah.

katiuscia:

Because it's now, it's become almost oddly comfortable, but familiar, and now having to basically recreate your life, keep moving forward in life without the only thing you knew, your stability, your person,

carmen:

right.

katiuscia:

That's a, it's not even comprehensible to the majority of people, myself included. I would like to ask for a lot of people who have gone through tragedy, grief, big loss, and they have those moments of, I wanna maybe regret, but not regret, guilt. So how you made him cry once and how you guys forgave each other. But was that something that every now and then would still pin you or even. Life support is a huge decision. Yeah. I can't imagine having to make that for another human. But you have to do it in the moment. I mean, you have to do it and only you know when it's right.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

So it's those things where you feel where the responsibility of everything literally of life is on you. But I just wanna know what. Is this, like what steps or what things did you do to kind of, for anyone who's experience experiencing this also, what are some good ways of being able to give yourself the grace?'cause we, we all know we need to in so many situations in life, but we, we don't, you know what I mean? You, when it, when you should, you don't, and then it's mm-hmm. Oh God. You have to dig out of that.

carmen:

Yeah. I would say remember your why. Come back to that. This is why I did it. Be confident in your decision because if you start doubting yourself and questioning yourself, listening to other people, oh, you should have done this. You should have done that. How dare you? That's awful. Just be confident in yourself and remember your why. I would say that with any hard decision you have to make. In your life, if you have to write it down somewhere and look at it on a sticky note on your mirror every morning, remember your why. And again, shutting out those outside voices. Yeah, it's good to get some advice. I recommend it, but there are gonna be those people who wanna bring negativity into your life and there's just no room for that. And. They may come off as a good friend just trying to give advice, but it's, you just feel negative when you're around them. You don't have room for that in your life, and I'm here to tell you, life is short. Just embrace those friends and that energy that is positive and helps you move forward in your journey and remember who you are and don't apologize for it, not even a little bit, because if you start doing that, you're going to get back to that place of bitterness. That place of anger and that can lead to things like addiction because among other things, because you're trying to fill a hole that is empty because really that hole is a place that only Jesus can fill. And when there's that emptiness there that only he can fill, you're going to the world and you're trying to fill it with things that are just not everlasting. So remember your why. Rely on Jesus. Try to find him. If you haven't, search for him eagerly. Reach out to a friend, go to church, talk to your pastor. Whatever works for you. But I'm here to tell you that it is so peaceful and it is fulfilling. I do have bad days. I don't wanna say that I'm resilient 100% of the time. I do have bad days. I do think about the fight that Dan and I had, and I do cry still to this day. It gets me sometimes, but, but again, it's that grief process. It will find you and you just have to fill it and go through it. So yeah, just stumbling along here gracefully. That's all we're doing.

megan:

Well, I think it's like when they say that having courage is not the absence of fear,

carmen:

right?

megan:

It's,

carmen:

yeah.

megan:

Being afraid and saddling up. Anyway, it's the same thing with resilience. It doesn't mean that you're impervious, it just means you continue to put one foot in front of the other. Yeah. And you keep going

carmen:

and you're gonna make mistakes.

megan:

Yeah,

carmen:

absolutely. And I don't think the mistake is what's important is what you learned

megan:

mm-hmm.

carmen:

From it and taking that lesson forward with you. I tell my team at work all the time, I have a great team at work and they. Mistakes are made. I make mistakes all the time at work, and I tell my team, look, the mistake is not important. It's what we're going to do next. What did we learn from it? That's all that matters.

katiuscia:

We're supposed to make mistakes because that is how we learn. Yeah. The issue comes is when you keep making the same mm-hmm. Mistake over and over, and. I think that's probably God being like, did you not learn the first 15 times? You're going to keep

carmen:

no.

katiuscia:

Making this mistake and almost, I, I really feel that that would be a moment that you would be blocked from moving forward from a achieving something that you're after if you're making the same mistake. Because until you've really processed that lesson in anything in life

megan:

mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

Then how can you move forward? Like you're doing the same shit.

megan:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Don't, don't do that.

megan:

The absolute biggest mistake of my life turned into some really beautiful shit.

katiuscia:

Yeah.

megan:

And I wish I could go back and learn all that without having made that mistake. But here we are. And in a weird way, I'm kind of thankful it happened because I learned so much. But

katiuscia:

it's who you are today

megan:

just sucked.

katiuscia:

They do. They do suck. Yeah. But you gotta, yeah. Trust that it's, you made it for a reason. It happened for a reason, and this is what I took out of it, and this is how I'm gonna propel myself forward. When you shared this story with me and I was completely shocked.

carmen:

Hmm.

katiuscia:

The compel, the one of the most compelling things was when you said you had the conversation a few weeks earlier, how he brought it up.

carmen:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

And you were young. These are things that you don't think of. So. What would you say to, I mean, I guess anyone, it's kind of an always be prepared for the worst. Not that you expect it, but know that life is short. Anything like that? Just,

carmen:

yeah, especially if you have, well, I would say. The minute you get married the next day, go get life insurance.

katiuscia:

Mm-hmm. And do a

megan:

will.

carmen:

Yes. Yes. Again, something he wanted to do, and I thought, and I even said to him, try to talk him out of getting life insurance. I'm like, that's silly. We don't need life insurance. We're in our mid twenties. We're not gonna need that. Let's go revisit that in our forties. It's like, no, I, I really think we need. To go do this. Okay, fine. So we did, it was very easy. We didn't have to do the medical stuff 'cause we were in our twenties and it was like $18 a month for this policy, which is nice. I still have the same policy by the way to this day. And then so we got the life insurance. So glad we did. I actually forgot about the policy that we even took it out. So I would say number one, do that after you get married. Two. Yes, absolutely have those conversations. What do you want me to do with with you? Do you wanna be cremated? Do you wanna be buried? In my husband's case, he didn't have a choice. I had to cremate him so I could bring him back to the states. But most men will tell you, eh, I don't care. Throw me in a ditch. Okay. Steve tells me, take me out to the Oys. We have some land out there. He says, put me on a pire and burn me. I'm like, yeah. I think that's illegal. Like,

katiuscia:

like a Game of Thrones?

carmen:

Pretty sure, yeah. Sending out

katiuscia:

like a,

carmen:

yeah, just take me out there and burn me. Okay. You got it. But have those conversations. Why do you want your legacy to be, what do you want me to tell the kids? Why do you want me to. Bring up about you. What kind of jokes do you want me to tell? What kind of things can I do to keep you going? Keep your memory going. So yes, have those conversations. Do you wanna be on life support? And it's crazy, it was just a couple weeks before the accident that he, he brought it up and it was so random. He literally hit pause on our Seinfeld. I can't remember which episode it was. They're all good. But he turned and looked at me and we watched it in bed, and he looked at me serious. I'm like, what? What's going on? Are you about to tell me something? We, yeah, are we gonna throw down right now? And he's like, just unplug me. I'm like, what are you talking about? Crazy person hit play on the Seinfeld. And he's like, no, just, I want you to know if something happens, if we're ever in an accident and I can't fly my plane, I can't take care of myself. I want you to take me off. I'm like, all right. Crazy. And that was it. And he hit play and I remember thinking, okay. Uh, that's just silly. Don't be talking to me about stuff like that. But I'm so glad he did. Mm-hmm. And I, and I think I said, yeah, same for me. Whatever, to this, to this day, Steve, if something happens to me, go ahead and take me off the life support because, no, I don't know anybody who'd want to, to be in a state like that for that long. But

katiuscia:

the thing is, when you're young and healthy, the majority of people don't even think of things like this. Nope. It's why? Why would you know? Why are you gonna bring that up? Right now we're watching Seinfeld. Don't kill the vibe. Right?

carmen:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

Then when, now that you know, because you've had to experience this huge loss.

carmen:

Yes.

katiuscia:

That's great advice that you can tell anyone. You tell your daughters, everybody knows now because you've had to have this lived experience. I am. I think, and that's just with illness, 29 years of illness. I'm the very overly honest person that if I start dating someone, and this happened more I'd say, you know, when I was younger and still have maybe childbearing age, but I would tell them immediately, like, can't have kids, can't have this, can't have that. And then it's always been, I have an advanced directive signed, I, there are things in place. Mm-hmm. And that's just something that I've had to learn through my experience. But that was just a lifelong something I've learned. I didn't have to learn it from tragedy. So it was, it was more gradual, whereas you had to learn it like that. Mm-hmm. But what a, what a, a gift from God that Dan even started talking about it. Just like the foreshadowing again, you talk about

carmen:

Yeah. And. Right. Yeah. The foreshadowing. Mm-hmm. It was totally a God thing. I don't know if he knew what it was that told him to say that to me that day, but it was God definitely. And the day of the accident, we made a pit stop somewhere and we were all loading back up into the vehicle to finish our journey. We actually had to drive from the airport to my uncle's house in the bass country. It was about a three hour drive, and we had stopped. About halfway through the trip and we were getting back into the car and he literally grabbed my jacket, pulled me back outta the car, planted a big kiss on me and said, have I told you I love you today?

megan:

Oh shit, I'm gonna cry.

carmen:

And I said, Nope, I don't think you have. Wow. And he says, well, I do. I love you. Now get in the car and put on your seatbelt.

katiuscia:

Wow.

carmen:

That's the last thing he said to me. And I have that. That's a gift. That was also a gift from God. I can take that with me and I know he's, he came to me into a dream. I got back to the states, came to me in a dream and you had those lucid dreams where, okay. Was that real? What was that? He just came to me and said, I'm okay. And I needed that. I needed to know that. And I felt I did feel better, but I think God allowed him to come to me and just say, I'm okay. And he looked good. He did not look good in the hospital. But in this dream he looked, he looked really good and he is forever 31 now, and I will see him again someday, and he'll be that beautiful, beautiful man that I know.

katiuscia:

I have so I, I have so much admiration for how you've handled and all of, all of this stuff that you've been through in life.'cause there's more, but all of the past, this is so huge. But to be able to be the person you are with the super fucked up dark humor and the kindness and everything that makes you, you with such a huge heart. Hmm. It's so admirable, Carmen, because a lot of people don't have that. They really take the trauma of their past and allow it to dictate the future, who they are. Yeah. They harden all of the things, but you totally had this diff different approach from this difficult mind blowingly difficult situation and experience in life at 30. Who goes through that? It's just, it's a crazy thing, but. I love that you're able to share it because it's just, you never know who's listening. You never know who needs to hear something like that. And I, I think the thing I take with your advice is always remember your why of when you're in that moment of being angry. That's a huge thing.

carmen:

And my why for pulling myself up was my daughter. She was my why. She was the reason I had to keep going. I will be honest with you, I started drinking pretty heavily for a couple of months after he passed. Just trying to escape. Just an escape. And my sister-in-law, she's like, you need to get your shit together. You have a daughter who needs you and you are drinking every single day. And I'm just like, what are you talking about it? I was in such denial, and then I started thinking about it. I'm like, oh my gosh, I am. Drinking every single day. So I had to remember my why, and it was my daughter. I had to figure it out for her whether I wanted to or not, and keep going for her. And now I've got my beautiful new daughter. I mean, she's not that new. She's older now, but, but she's kept me going too, so, yeah. But thank you. Those are nice things to say. It's just,

katiuscia:

it's just, it's a lot.

carmen:

Yeah. If

katiuscia:

you're,

carmen:

but I could have easily gone down that, that road, and I could have easily become addicted. That runs in my family, unfortunately. And I could have gone there. I watched my mom do it, and I told myself at 11 years old when I found her, I'm not going to do this to my kids someday. I'm not going to put a husband through a marriage where it's not. Where it's not happy, where you're constantly fighting, where addiction is the center of everything, whether you know it or not, I'm not going to do that. I made that decision at 11 years old, and I remembered that at that time, after my husband passed and I started drinking, I remembered my 11-year-old self saying, don't do that. You're not gonna do this again. Remembering my why.

katiuscia:

Part of your journey though, you had to go through that. Yeah. You had to go through the drinking spiral phase because that's, it's almost, I don't wanna say it's expected, but some kind of, what's the word? Some kind of rebellion at why this hat just mm-hmm. On the basic level. It's almost valid that you understand that something's gonna happen. You can't just chuck it up and be like, well, I'm gonna be, yep,

carmen:

everything's fine.

katiuscia:

Everything's great.

carmen:

Yeah. I don't think that would've been healthy either.

katiuscia:

No. So I

carmen:

would've been very Stepford wife, like, what's,

katiuscia:

well, look at how it got you. You got through that you had and you wouldn't know unless you did it. So I think it's just when we have these things happen to us in life, whether it's the loss of someone, whether it's the trauma from the past, and the pain that people that we experience due to other people. How we move forward from it dictates everything. Yeah. Because it's so easy to not make it a positive thing.

carmen:

Yeah. And we have control over none of it, right?

katiuscia:

Yeah. Just how you, just how you act on it. Just like that's the one thing you can control.

carmen:

Right. And you can only be responsible for your own decisions. And at the end of the day, you can't please everyone. You can just do what. You think is right, be true to yourself because you have to own it, right? You have to be the one that has to answer for it someday. When you revisit it, your memories, you want to say, yep, I did that, and I'm okay with it. And that's all you can control.

katiuscia:

I thank you for the therapy.

carmen:

Yeah,

katiuscia:

that

carmen:

this is therapy for me too. Yes. Just talking about it. I love talking about him. Yeah,

katiuscia:

good. And you should, and you have a daughter that probably, that's a good thing. It's a healthy thing. Yeah.

carmen:

She is so funny. This kid, she's hilarious. She and I know that part of what she's been through, that's a lot of the reason for her humor is I think she and I both have adopted this, this sixth sense of humor in a way to help us get through life. Right? Because if you can't. Not that we wanna laugh at tragedy, but there's so much in this world that is absolutely hilarious. If you don't stop and laugh at things, man, you're gonna be miserable.

megan:

Yeah.

carmen:

So, yeah. Remember the funny,

megan:

do you see glimmers of him in her?

carmen:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

megan:

Because I know, me too, because my brother passed away, and when I see his daughter, which is not very often, but oh man, she'll, she, he had this laugh, and every now and then she'll have that laugh or she'll do a hand gesture that was just like his, and it's like gut wrenching, but also incredible at the same time.

carmen:

Yeah. Yeah. She, she just has a way of, she just looks things differently. She's very honest. She will bring up the uncomfortable things. In conversation and sometimes it's embarrassing, but he did that too. He was just like, this is what I see in you and this is what I think about it. And then we'd always find a way to to laugh about it. But I really appreciate that about her. I've learned a lot from her. She's 31 now and I'm still learning from that kid. So grateful for her.

katiuscia:

That's awesome. Yeah, life just throws so many wrenches and you should, I mean, we all should be prepared in theory.

carmen:

Mm-hmm.

katiuscia:

We're never prepared, I don't think, but if we at least are solid in who we are, why we do the things we do, our faith, mainly if we're solid in all of it, it makes it a little easier to pivot. When you have such a block that just was thrown on you unexpectedly. And I, I wish that everyone kind of understood that because I do see a lot of, and maybe it's with all the new generation, the younger kiddos who just feel like, like the world is out to get them, like they're a victim of, oh, it's this, it's that. And they put these completely irrelevant. Blames on different people and it just, it doesn't quite make sense. Mm-hmm. I've, I kind of learned to never question anything that happens at this point in my life because it's gonna ha if it happens, it happens and there's a reason for it. I'm just not gonna know about it until I die. And I'm like, why, why enough?

megan:

I mean, I for sure overthink all the things. Yes.'cause I would love to know the why, but more importantly is what's the path forward? How do we get through this?

katiuscia:

You've gotta get through it in some way, shape, or form. And it's just, it's just not always easy, but that's what I'm saying. It's not easy. But I had to recently, and this is a recent thing, that I stopped questioning the why on a lot of things in my life because I can get to a point in my own head where I think, gosh, it's 29 years, is, have I learned yet? Is it, are we done now? What, why am I still going through this? So it's just another, I feel like it's a charm for the cross that I've been carrying for 29 years. I'm like, what's this new charm?

carmen:

Oh, we're doing this now.

katiuscia:

Yeah. It's just gonna, it's just decor.

carmen:

Yeah.

katiuscia:

But it's just, there's nothing I can do about it except how I kind of take it and make the necessary steps. I'm not having a freak out meltdown dancing on tables in Vegas shit yet. Um, but you know what I mean? I think it's just a moment to. Keep moving forward always.

carmen:

Yeah. And maybe not taking the little things and blowing them up into big things, because I'll tell you, it is the little things in life that you're not gonna remember at the end of the day. Parenting, getting, trying to be that perfect parent. And I'll tell you what, there are so many reasons to feel guilty as a parent every single day. Just do the best you can. If their socks don't match, it's fine. If you didn't get them to the game, to all the practices, it's okay. It's going to be okay. They're watching you and the example that you are leaving them, you don't have to do all the the perfect things 'cause you're gonna make yourself crazy. You can imply that to anywhere in your life. Gosh, these little things just, they don't matter at the end of the day. It's just loving one another, being there listening, those little conversations with your kids at night, those are, those are the important ones, right? That's a big deal to them, and those are what you're gonna remember when they're going off to college and there you're an empty nester all of a sudden going through that now, by the way, for the last year, that's been interesting. But I do find myself looking back on, those were big moments and those were what mattered. It not getting my daughter signed up for piano the third year on time. That doesn't matter. So yeah, not spiraling out on the little things. Yeah. And just taking it as it comes.

katiuscia:

Be a good human.

carmen:

Yeah. Be a good human. Yeah.

katiuscia:

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for talking about this with us.

carmen:

Yeah. Thank

katiuscia:

you for having me. We'll talk about it again. We like a good, a good. Resiliency and mental check-ins, mental health check-ins for how we're carrying on in this very different life than what we know.

megan:

Yep.

katiuscia:

It's challenging, but thanks everyone. Yeah. Have a

carmen:

good day. Yeah. Thank you everyone. Have a good day. Except to, except to those people who decide that they wanna stop and visit with other people right at the entrance of the grocery store, and you're just trying to get in to get your ice cream. Have a good day to everybody except for those people. It's up for you. It's up for you. Bye bye bye.