Don't Even Bother

#29: Auras, Energy & Psychic Dreams — with Karyn Stuart

• Katiuscia + Megan • Episode 29

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0:00 | 1:34:12

What are people actually experiencing when they talk about auras, intuition, or even psychic dreams?

In this episode, we sit down with Karyn Stuart to talk about "A Course In Miracles", energy, perception, and the kinds of experiences that don’t always have easy explanations.

From reading energy to intuitive awareness, we explore why these topics resonate with so many people — and why they can also be met with skepticism.

This is an open conversation about curiosity, personal experience, and making sense of things that don’t always fit neatly into a box.

00:00 Intro – Karyn Stuart
05:30 Auras and Energy Explained
18:20 Intuition and Awareness
31:40 Psychic Dreams
45:50 Skepticism vs Belief
01:02:30 Personal Experiences
01:20:10 Final Thoughts

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Don't even bother.

Karyn:

Besides my feeling when it comes to religion and I'm segueing here.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

is if you, say something and there's some people out there who go, oh my God, that happens that's who it's for.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And the people who go like, oh

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

So it's kinda like that.

Katiuscia:

No, I love it. Yeah. Um. I think it's gonna be great.

Karyn:

Ask me stuff.

Katiuscia:

So listen.

Karyn:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I'm very excited.

Karyn:

Are

Katiuscia:

you that you're gonna talk about. Things that we don't hear about every day and things that a lot of people don't think about.

Karyn:

No.

Katiuscia:

So welcome Karyn Stuart.

Karyn:

Thank

Katiuscia:

you. You are. Can I say we're where you work and everything? Yeah. Because

Karyn:

we're not talking work's.

Katiuscia:

That's kind of What's the whole idea? That's right. Karyn is the director of all the leadership programs at the Boise Metro Chamber.

Karyn:

That's me.

Katiuscia:

And she's a friend of mine and she's very, very smart. And I'm very happy you're here.

Karyn:

Thank you.

Katiuscia:

Yes, because you, it's fun to talk to.

Karyn:

Thank you.

Katiuscia:

So please share with us.

Karyn:

So I had my little agenda of four items. Uh, and I thought, we'll just. We can segue, transition from one to the next. And the way I make myself comfortable, I used to do standup um, but the way I get comfortable is that I have to figure, this is like we were having drinks. Yeah, you said that even there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like, you know, martini and mm-hmm. And just talking. So lecture. And, and my full disclaimer is I don't. Not that I don't believe this stuff, but I don't practice any of these Right?

Megan:

That's a distinction.

Karyn:

Right? And I was gonna wear a cross, but then I thought, you know, why? Why? When I'm talking about this stuff, why confuse people? But the truth is, I, I think there are a lot of different definitions of Christian, right? And you ask someone, are you a Christian? And it can mean so many different a Christian who goes to church. I'm a Christian who doesn't go Et cetera. And I personally am like, if you follow Jesus's teachings and you follow things so. So a, a long time ago, long time ago, decades ago, there was a book written by Marianne Williamson you heard of her.

Megan:

Why does that sound so familiar?

Karyn:

Oh, it's topic. Well, because Maryanne Williamson wrote a, she ran for political office. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, she was her primary.

Katiuscia:

That was recently

Karyn:

like a few, so it was like 16, I think.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. Yeah,

Karyn:

I think so. I think, uh, but she, so she doesn't have a great reputation I think, 'cause she's kind of considered like a nut. Um, but a long time ago, she wrote a book in, I think it's the late eighties, could be early nineties, called A Return to Love.

Megan:

Oh, my mom has that book. That's why.

Karyn:

Okay. Well you're gonna read it when we're done talking because I

Megan:

probably did read it back in the day.

Karyn:

It was a huge, huge bestseller.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And she went on to lecture and she's a really, she's got a really great voice and I think that's she, it's very. Soothing and mowing and you know, it's

Megan:

very NPR.

Karyn:

It's, yeah, it's, and so, and she, she did a series of books and she did one and I can't remember what it was called, illuminations or something. It's, um, prayers and they're actually really beautiful. And then, you know, she would record stuff. And I actually heard her was a trip. And she wasn't like evangelical, but, but she was promoting, you know, this whole. Concept or whatever approach. And um, so it's based on a, a study and a book called, My Prop, A Course in Miracles.

Megan:

Okay, nice.

Karyn:

So this is the textbook, textbook workbook for students, manual for teachers. And I think there's other workbooks that go with it. You should see this thing. Look at, look at this. It's like,

Megan:

what's the copyright date on that?

Karyn:

Oh,

Megan:

I like the aesthetic of that book.

Karyn:

I was just, I dunno what happened here. It's

Katiuscia:

a little bit,

Megan:

that page was intentionally left blank. It's

Katiuscia:

a little biblical looking

Karyn:

in the sense of of like the, those are 75 and that been my guest and then reprinted in 85, which is probably when. For sure. But look, I mean, I really, so I studied this in LA for a while, tip, right? That was like, what do they call that one? It was like obvious in la

Megan:

Oh yeah.

Karyn:

So when I was living in LA I studied this, but, so here's, I'm gonna tell you this story. So there someone says A Course In Miracles to you. You'll, you'll I know the origins. So there were these two clinical psychologists. I think it was NYU, but we can few pages our memory. And, um, one of them's name was Helen Schucman.

Megan:

Okay.

Karyn:

S-C-H-U-C-M-A-N. And the other one was Bill Thetford, and I actually had to look it up. THE something, FORD. So they were working together and their clinical psychologist and she starts hearing, I, I told Katiuscia that's,

Katiuscia:

mm-hmm.

Karyn:

She starts hearing a voice. At night waking her up.

Megan:

Okay.

Karyn:

And so this voice is talking to her, and this is a story. I'm not saying I believe it. And um, so she goes into work and she says, Bill, I'm losing my mind. I'm like, one of our patients, I'm having some kind of psychotic break. I'm hearing a voice every night and it's keeping me up, and it's talking to me. He goes, well, what's it say? She goes, oh, you this stuff. And it tells me to write it down. And he goes, so write it down.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

So she did. And so she would bring in like these volumes of stuff. Wow. And they typed them up and. Over the process and she was raised. If I'm, if I'm, if, and if you like this stuff, have someone on who's an expert, because I'm not, I'm trying to remember. She was raised,

Katiuscia:

allegedly. This is all allegedly.

Karyn:

Allegedly, yeah. I think this is what I remember. Um, she was, I think Jewish. Catholic, I think one parent and not raised in a religious environment, but somewhere in there there's that she had religious vision, so we do get a little, you know, somewhere along the line. So, so she really didn't have any religion and so she, they start, they start writing this all down and, you know, typing it up and they start to get the feeling, it's the voice of Jesus. This is the story.

Megan:

Okay. And.

Karyn:

In a nutshell, it's kind of like Jesus going, Hey, I needed to come back and I need, I needed to clarify a few things. Um, because,

Megan:

because you guys are screwing it

Karyn:

up. Because the 12 guys that followed me around, you know, they didn't quite get, and if you really, if you, I've read some books by Episcopalian scholars and different that. Although they've really changed a lot too. Episcopalians are not what they used to be, but, um, no offense, they're wonderful, wonderful group, but I mean, it was like just

Megan:

for entertainment purposes only,

Karyn:

it was very scholarly, right. Back in the day. Sure. Anyway, they, you read it and you go like, oh, you know, Jesus was, uh, from an sort of affluent family and he was educated on the enes and he really, he knew some stuff.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And so when he spoke in parables and he told stories and stuff, it was pretty deep. If you are just a fisherman or a tax collector or whatever, you're not gonna get the gist of everything. Yeah. And so theoretically, um, that stuff was sorta misinterpreted. And then add to it all the politicization of, of politics church and all the different things that happen and things get kind of twisted

Megan:

My husband and I were just talking about that exact thing last night. Really? Yeah.

Karyn:

And so, um, oh, just wait. This conversations get twisted.

Megan:

Yeah. Like, because scripture is kind of like the law. Like you could have five different lawyers read a law and they can interpret it different ways. And same thing for scripture. And that's why you have so many different versions of Christianity.

Katiuscia:

Yeah. Right.

Megan:

And like just. Being, you would think that it's pretty clear on your view, but then somebody else reads it and goes, well, but what about this? Oh yeah. And people who take the Bible super literally and don't understand that the parables have so many layers and the deeper meanings and yeah, it's,

Karyn:

and use it for different purposes, of course. And manipulate. And so the Course in Miracles so started, I don't know exactly how it started to spread, but it's been published worldwide. And in fact, there are groups in Boise. Which was crazy 'cause I looked, I And so there are, if you wanna get in a study group for the course, you can find one. And so I went to, after I read her book, after I heard her and stuff, I went, me, dive in So I went to a group. It was really, it was really a trip. The guy, it was a, a lot of times I think it's psychologists counselors because it's a self study. So the idea is not to join a cult or join anything, it's to be your own path. And it even says in the first few pages, there are, uh, there are many paths to me, and this is, but. And so it's not for everyone. I mean, I remember my mom read it and she's like, yeah, that's a lot of double talk and I can't get through it. And I was like, I get it. You know? And you kind of don't really try to absorb it right away. You just kind of go, okay, and then it's 365 exercises.

Megan:

Oh.

Karyn:

So it's supposed to be like a crash,. I mean, I wanna laugh when I say it, but there's a lot of really. Good stuff Um, but it's supposed to be like a crash course. It's like a, a fast track to enlightenment.

Katiuscia:

Oh.

Karyn:

And so if you did it, which very few of us actually do, okay. But if you actually did the exercises every single day, which are just kind of mind changing stuff that you say to yourself and you do. Every couple of hours it's, like, it's really not that hard, but discipline is hard for me. Sure. So. And most people. And most

Katiuscia:

people.

Karyn:

So if you really did it, I think you would. It would be life changing probably.

Katiuscia:

You talking about like affirmations and things like that? Yeah, sort of. It's

Karyn:

a little bit Mm. But

Katiuscia:

like more de on a deeper level of what we think of as affirmations and the things that you repeat all the just, is it just deeper?

Karyn:

I hesitate to use the word, but it's kind of deprogramming.

Katiuscia:

Ah, okay.

Karyn:

Which is a scary word, but it's like, well I can tell you the first or one of the first 'cause I remember it. Okay.'cause it's really hard. It was really hard for me to do. You sit, you're supposed to sit in a room. Okay, do it with me now. No. You're supposed to sit in a room and you're supposed to say, God is in that God is in that couch. Whatever you look at, God is in that table and it says, don't let your eyes. Don't try to do anything. Don't rest. God is in that drape and it's so you start when you do it, and you just do it throughout the day, and you can do it in your head, right? So later in the day you're off and you're like, God's in that pencil.

Katiuscia:

Oh,

Karyn:

and you're doing it and you're like, this is ridiculous. You know, but then you do the next day and then you do the next day. And what starts to happen is it's supposed to be showing you that life is, you know, life is but a dream and all that, that all the great authors and that it's an illusion that life is an illusion. In the big timeline of infinity, there's this little thing in the middle, right? The schoolhouse, we're all here to learn it's an illusion. Now, when I say that to my husband, he goes, if I hit you in the nose, you'll feel it. And that's not an, you know, I go like,

Megan:

that's something my husband would say,

Karyn:

I'm like, okay, well yeah, but that's not exactly the point. And so it's that. Like, like the, we talked about the um, on tv, right? You can be watching Fox News and it doesn't and CNN's on somewhere else, but you don't see it. Mm-hmm. You switch over and it's there. So there's a lot of stuff that's going on that just'cause we're not tuned into it.

Megan:

Yeah,

Karyn:

right. Okay. So it's the same kind of thing as that God is everywhere, all around us, et cetera. So if you do the every day, you do start to see things differently. Feel differently about things. And the premise is forgive yourself, forgive others. not original. Jesus said it. I think he I think he did. And, um, so you're, you're, and the miracle part, which I really didn't remember, I had to do a little studying and look, and it's that there's no says, there's no difficulty in miracles. And the miracles are a change in perception. So you've hated someone your whole life. You're just like, I, this person was horrible to me. You know, bullied me, whatever. If you can find love in your heart, and it doesn't mean you have to go be friends with them, but if you can change that and you can wish them well and you you can do it, that's the miracle. So each time we change our perception, the person who's nasty to you, if you don't fight back and you say something that's and each little miracle,

Megan:

that would be a miracle for me.

Karyn:

But I try to do that now and then.'cause it's so easy, especially if you do comedy or you're like witty. Like you guys, it's so easy to come back with

Katiuscia:

Sure.

Karyn:

You know, remember being men out, but it's so easy and it's not easy to like, and I, I actually learned this from a, a psychologist that I work for. Who a woman was just this horrible woman in a line we were in for like a cafeteria style thing. And she was just brutal. And he stopped and he looked at me and he goes, you have a hard job, you, you, she looks at him and he you're dealing with hungry people and you this, and she just melted. You know, I mean, we know this was like, wow. Um, but that kind of thing is the miracle, right? Just taking the second and saying something nice and doing something. And I think some of this stuff is a little more. Normal now, and I think younger generations are kinder. There's certainly what I see like at work is that. When we were young and there was somebody who was the oddball or whatever, no one sat with them. Yeah. They much more bring them into the circle and one, they don't call them the oddball.

Megan:

Sure.

Karyn:

That kind of exchange. But you know, it's much more, um, inviting and inclusive, as it were.

Megan:

I think they're a lot softer for good and bad.

Karyn:

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's true. Yeah. For, for real. But, um, so I think that some of this isn't as. Earth shattering as maybe it was, but it is. So it's weird doing the exercises and they get a little more normal and they get a little more like, okay, this is a little more like school, Sunday school or whatever. I, I feel it. So when I was in this group, um, God, I would go and I ended up getting out of it. And I said to the person, I said, you know, I come here really happy and I leave really unhappy. Oh. And it's 'cause everybody was really screwed up that was there. And, and that's my judgment. That's what I was working on. Obviously I did not pass. And um, so I, I would be like, you know, they'd be like, ah, I hate my brother this and that. And I know the course says that I should do this, but I can't. And I'd be like, Ugh, you know? Are you reading the same book? I am. Because you know, all you gotta do is make a choice.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And stuff. But, um, I had, you know, we all have our own on, so I just, I just was But when I did it by myself, weird things happened. Like I was happier and I was. Peace, more peaceful. And my husband said to me one time, and this was a long time ago, so it's all been undo undone since, but he goes, you just get nicer every day. And he didn't know what I was doing. why, why am I nice? What is that?

Katiuscia:

Do you, do you think it taught you going through it almost a lesson in, because what you're talking about with the miracles, it's, it's, it's resonating with me. Patience and patience is such a virtue. So the person that. They've been mean to me all my life and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wanna come back and say something to bite your tongue and not say anything takes an exceptional amount of inner strength. Yeah. And patience. Especially if you're just like Uhuh. Like, let me, let me come back at you. Yeah. So it's the exhibiting of grace also, I would say. I

Karyn:

think that some of it, but I think it's motivation. Sure. Because like you can do any, if you're motivated, you can do anything.

Katiuscia:

Right.

Karyn:

Uh, and if you're not, it's really hard. To get yourself to do anything and or anybody else. So if you're going through the course and you're motivated to see a change in yourself and you're motivated to change the world, one, uh, relationship at a time or whatever, then you will take that breath and have a little grace.. And it doesn't mean that you go around being kumbaya to everyone. No. It just means indifferent. Interactions, you know, because I think that some of it, and it talks about fear creeping in, is I actually this, 'cause I was in my twenties or something and I actually was like afraid that I would be too enlightened. Oh. Like vibrate off the planet. So I was like, I don't know if I wanna finish this.'cause I don't, I'm not ready to go yet. You know? Which is like very unlikely that we get to the Gandhi stage and um. So my motivation was more to be, I think, I think I was curious mostly, but I went to Sunday school growing up, you know, I was raised Presbyterian and then like when you take world religion in college and you get exposed to different things, I heard a rabbi, uh, talk one time who said that in the, and I, this is again not an expert, so correct me if I'm wrong, in the Jewish religion, you're taught to question. And like when they're studying the Talmud and the Torah and stuff, it's a lot of questioning and it's not feared. Like I think in Christianity it is not all, but in sometimes. And instead it, the belief is the more you question, the deeper your faith. And so I think that's what I do, uh, because I think I have a pretty strong faith is I question stuff. Mm-hmm. Like you said. Yeah. Yeah. The more you question mm-hmm. The deeper your faith gets and not that you're looking for, uh. The right answer because again, that goes back to the authoritarian thing, which is there's no right answer. There's whatever you

Megan:

right

Karyn:

find. Although I like, I'm a Dennis Prager fan, and I, and I like some of the stuff that there's right and wrong. Sure,

Megan:

sure.

Karyn:

But, um, yeah.

Megan:

Well, and that's sort of, that's, so I've had, so, um, we've discussed before that I became Catholic at 35 years old. I say I was raised by wolves, but my, I mean, new age stuff I. I have forgotten more about it than a lot of people even know.

Karyn:

Are they never, that's how your parents were, never into like the course of miracles or you never

Megan:

heard of? They might've been. I don't know. Um, but so, um, my conversion story was very profound and so my faith. Like my personal, internal faith is so strong, but I ask a lot of questions because I'm so curious and that a lot of Christians particularly, especially if they are not well versed in apologetics, if they can't answer that question, feels like an attack. Yeah. And then they'll say, well, you should just believe. Yeah. Well, I do just believe. Yeah. But I also wanna know why.

Karyn:

But that's like superficial, that's not real faith, right? Because if you're just doing what someone told you,

Megan:

yeah,

Karyn:

it's not really finding it within yourself.

Megan:

And because the Catholic church has an answer for everything,

Karyn:

yeahinteresting,

Megan:

and so I want to know that answer.

Karyn:

Mm-hmm.

Megan:

I want to know. And so I think that. Questions are awesome.

Karyn:

Yeah. And I think

Megan:

to deepen your faith,

Karyn:

so in the group we had people who called themselves recovering Catholics.

Megan:

Oh, a lot of people say that.

Karyn:

Mm-hmm. Do they say that? Uhhuh And um, it was just things they'd been told to believe and stuff.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

But, and then we had people who were, um. Atheists and uh, or, or Jewish or whatever, and they had a problem with it being the voice of Jesus or whatever. And it says like, of course they did. Don't worry about it. You know, it doesn't matter. Yeah. When you would teach her. It's just It kind of probably who it is, but you know that that's not, it's the Christ kind of thing.

Megan:

Right. The divine.

Karyn:

Yeah. And it's not, I think the thing with New Ages, what happened with religion started hating on New ages that it got really, um. To where I don't need God, I am God kind of a thing, right? Yeah. And that's not what this is about. So I mean, and I'm not like saying this is the way or the thing, but it's actually got merit. I mean, for people who do it, it's kind So in my group, so, so what, two things I wanna tell you. This is my segue. Um, it says in it, when you start, when you start to do it, I forget, whatever, when you hit a certain point, you'll start to see light around things. And I read that and like dropped the book. Because in college I used to, I started seeing light around Some call it an aura. I

Megan:

was just gonna say like an aura,

Karyn:

but I, I don't, I can't say that 'cause I've never seen colors and so, and I'm not, not one of those, you know, aura readers. Um. It's funny too, how I can see things and be a total skeptic on what other people see, which is really not very nice. I should be more accepting, but I, I started to see, I'd see like light around my professor and I, and I remember, I could remember sitting in a history class. Brazilian Cowboys 4 0 1 and looking at, hold on.

Katiuscia:

I'm sorry, what? You took a history class called Brazilian Cowboys.

Karyn:

I also had grown warfare. It was a

Katiuscia:

400 level class.

Karyn:

What? Yeah. I got a degree in Latin American studies.

Katiuscia:

Oh,

Karyn:

international relations, anthropology, and history. Wow. I spoke Spanish and Portuguese.

Katiuscia:

Okay.

Karyn:

Went to school in Mexico. And um, so, and this guy was cool and he really knew his northeastern Brazilian cowboys. Wow. Lemme tell you. But it was one of those classes where I didn't even have to take notes. I just sat there absorbed, you know.

Megan:

Oh,

Karyn:

that's cool. It was a trip too. It was like this little guy. All I remember is, his name was Roger, I don't remember his last name. He had a big briefcase and it was overflowing with stuff. And he walked, took this around. He just looked like the total crazy but he could talk. Brazilian cowboys in Brazil. He was really interesting. So I remember looking at the windows and trying to figure out if there was light, like hitting him, you know? And I'm sitting, I missed like the entire lecture 'cause I'm thinking about this and I'm all okay, walk in front of the green let's see if it's still there, you know, and it, and I could, and I was, and I just remember, I was like, what the hell is that? What is that? And so every now and then it would happen. Then, um, it happened more when I was reading the course. So then when I saw that, um, and I was like, maybe my eyes are just tired. And then you read stuff and you read about people who can't see auras or say they can and all that stuff. And um, I'm like, well, you know, maybe And the minute you tell someone, what do they say?

Katiuscia:

Where it's my aura?

Karyn:

Yeah, that's exactly what they said. So anyway, I told, they'd go, can you see mine? And I'd be like, no, I can't make it happen. It just happens. So I never knew really why, and then it comes and goes, wouldn't happen. And I was working for this company and I was a regional supervisor and we had like 2020 retail centers and I was interviewing and they used to do group interviews. Probably one of the cruelest things you can do,

Megan:

group interviews are awful

Karyn:

to a human being. Yeah. And so I had five mostly women. In a group, and my friend and I, who was the area we're interviewing and I'm looking at these women and they're talking, and the middle one just goes poof and lights up just like this wide around her, all around her head. And I'm like sitting there and I went, oh my God. And in my head I'm going, am I supposed to hire her? You know, I'm like, what the hell? What does that even mean? You know,

Megan:

I need a more signer sign, please.

Katiuscia:

It's the loudest it could be. But

Karyn:

I was like, oh. And so I didn't know. And then finally I went, you know what? This is happening when I shut up. This is when I'm not thinking or judging, and I'm just purely listening. And that was so rare that I didn't see 'em that often. And so I was like, okay. So then when I took this group. I kind of do the Donald Trump weave, if you notice, but I, I will come back.

Megan:

I love it.

Karyn:

I'll

Katiuscia:

the weave.

Karyn:

Okay, so, so then, um, say what you will, he does the weave and he comes back. He does very well. So, um, in this group, I would see them occasionally, you know, because I'd be listening horror stories of people and one day I saw a dark and it was the first time in my whole life and it looked like a cloud. It didn't even look like an aura. Like it wasn't around her like it is but it was like this cloud. So I was like, okay, I have to say something not to her.'cause God knows I was not, I was not,

Megan:

excuse me ma'am, I think you have a demon.

Karyn:

Yeah, no. So I said to the teacher, you know, who was more, you know, he was advanced and um, I, you know, I see this. And he goes, yeah, well some people have that. It's just like, I dunno, like a, not a sixth sense, but just something other, some people can see it, heat, light, whatever it is, you And I, and I told him, you know, I can't make it happen. I don't see colors, you know, blah blah blah. I'm not going to go start touring. And um, I said, but today, with whatever her name was at I saw this and it's upsetting and 'cause I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it. He says she has a horrendous background of abuse and this and that, and it was, it was horrendous. And he said, I think you're just seeing the shadow darkness that she's carrying with And I was like, oh. And I think I shut down after that and I didn't, you know, see it. And then when I started studying it more, I would see things. And I had a few, few situations just. you wanna hear one? It's, yeah. You'll think I'm, you'll think I'm nuts 'cause this is really crazy. I was having dinner with a friend of and I was telling her about it uh, she was really open to stuff, she's like, I wanna see, see mine. And she was just like, and we were, we'd always just laugh 'cause they didn't take it totally seriously. And this restaurant, it was outside and there were people on the patio and there were probably 30 people. Everyone lit up. Everyone in the whole And I, I kind of like this and I told her'cause she was trustworthy and I said, I can see everybody's aura in this entire place. She's like, what? You're nuts. And I said, it looks like I'm eating in a, like a heaven patio with like a bunch of angels. And then it, it kind of went away after a few minutes.'cause the minute you start like judging it and thinking about it. That I think I've seen him a few times. I saw one time I saw my boss who was really pregnant, talking to somebody else, and I saw it sort of extend from her over to the other person. And I said, what were you thinking about when you were looking at Sherry? And she said, I was just thinking about how much I love her.

Katiuscia:

Oh.

Karyn:

And what a great person so

Katiuscia:

I mean, I

Karyn:

don't

Katiuscia:

know what that is.

Karyn:

What do you think of, or

Katiuscia:

do you find that that was happening to you more when you were practicing this? Absolutely. Okay. So not, no question

Karyn:

about it so much. It still happens from time to to time. Occasionally. Yeah. And like, it's hard to see people that I care about because I have a judgment, a positive Um, so I've only seen like my husband a couple of But again, it's, I have to be in a completely, like, I'm not thinking good or bad thoughts, I'm just sitting. So it happens a lot listening to. Lectures, teachers, Yeah. Isn't that weird?

Katiuscia:

I, so I, and I don't know how you feel, Megan, but I definitely feel that people have an energy mm-hmm. That you pick up on, so I would assume that that's the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I get it in a similar concept. I can't always, I can't see it, but you can feel it. Yeah. You can feel the energy of other people. So I would probably. Compare it in a way to that. Yeah. Like, although I can't see it, I can feel it. You did answer. I was gonna ask, did you ever see dark or was it always light, but when you said dark,

Karyn:

just that once. Just the one time. And

Katiuscia:

so that, I mean, so you answered it inadvertently? Yeah, because my thing was, well, what if it's, is it only, is it lighting up even bad people or you know, bad things?

Karyn:

Yeah. I don't think he was trying to say it wasn't about her, it was about what she was carrying Sure. With

Katiuscia:

the shadow of her past. Yeah. Which is,

Karyn:

yeah, the demon

Katiuscia:

a lot heavy,

Karyn:

dark, which is the thing, you could call it demons, you could call it different things. Sure. But it was just the hurt and So Have you

Katiuscia:

I haven't seen anything. I, I told you though, on the phone, and I did bring it because I went to remember that retreat I went to. Mm-hmm. And, um, well they had people set up there and they, you like, put your hands on this. I don't know, kind of magnetic machine. And then it like took a picture and it gave you the photo of like all of the colors of your aura, which everyone's was so different. But then on the back, of course, then you've got the descriptions, but then you're trying to analyze, like a lot of people were, a lot of people there had red and they were, it fit with their. Personalities, everything. We were learning about each other that weekend because they're a bunch of real estate agents and just very high powered, go fire, like all the things. Mine's a little more mellow, but, um, communicators, empaths, trustworthy. I'm like, yeah, that. Blue and green for me. That makes sense. I just thought that that was beautiful that it came out like that because I'm like, it beautiful. I dont know. Beautiful.

Karyn:

You have a beautiful aura.

Katiuscia:

I have a beautiful aura. Thank you. Yeah. Um, I didn't know what I was getting into touching magnets and you know, of course this is where like the good Catholic in me was like, don't mess with this. Right. But then the curious part of me, which I always, I always leave things open for. For the, for the questioning. For the wonder, right, for the plot 'cause, yeah, but also I think I'm a natural. I want to learn, I don't know everything. There's that saying, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. I always wanna learn something and grow and I don't have a problem questioning now. Am I gonna go to like a Satanic church? Uh oh no. A little far. Right. We're, we're not questioning that. Like we know that. The things like this, if it's out there and it's been practiced to me, I'm like, I can ask, I can put my hands on a machine. I think

Karyn:

it deepens your faith and if it makes you better or wanna do really what's the harm?

Katiuscia:

Wanna do better is always the thing. That's what my life motto do better.

Karyn:

Right. And that's everything, to do and stuff.

Katiuscia:

What about you?

Karyn:

Yeah,

Megan:

yeah. I, um, I struggle with a lot of it.'cause like I said, I was raised with it. I've seen zero results I've seen. Bad things happen, but that could be anything. Right? So, um, I think it depends a lot on the individual journey of things. And you were saying that your group kind of got depressing. And I do think, not in a judgment way, but just in my personal observation, that a lot of will say unwell mentally or emotionally people or spiritually people kind of gravitate toward the more new age because. There's less quote unquote accountability.

Karyn:

Oh, that's interesting.

Megan:

So it is more, well, this is me and this is my journey and you don't have to answer to God or any of the, you know, and there are a lot of Christian churches or communities that feel more judgmental and feel, you know, and so I can see how that would,

Karyn:

I think that when

Megan:

you,

Karyn:

if you have firsthand experience mm-hmm. And you'd have to see, did anything help your parents? Did they get better from anything? You know, what were, what was it? I mean, there's a lot of variation between the different things.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

The, the course interesting. I went to a, a, the first study group I went to. Which I couldn't go to'cause it was by area. So I'm sorry you're in the area. I was like, okay. So I want to know that. But that was actually a healthy group was just, I should have gone back. They, those people I think were there just to be better people.

Megan:

Sure.

Karyn:

And I remember the guy who taught it to was, was pretty, pretty cool. Pretty like goodwill hunting, kind of cool guy. Wow. I'm really a dating myself. But he, um. This woman was crying because she said, I do so well, and then I screw up like I'm, I'm, I'm being nice, you know, I'm being patient and then I'm just my horrible self again all of a sudden. And so he did this thing, and it's kind of obvious, but again, I was really young, you know, that's so wise. Um, but he had her go over and try to get a book off a shelf and she kept trying to get it. And sorry. And she, um, she couldn't get it and she's on her toes and he says, try harder. And we're all getting like a a fool out of her and she's trying to do it and trying to do it. And then he said, stay up there and, you know, really try and now, now relax. And she comes back down'cause she's on her tippy and he says, sit down. And, and, and then he says, how did that feel? said, not really good, whatever. And he said. It's the same thing. You're on your tippy toes, you're trying every day. And you're gonna fall back. And you're gonna fall back. But the more you do it, the longer you're gonna And he said, the longer you practice, the longer you'll stay at that level. And it always kind of stuck with me.'cause I was like, okay. That's reasonable. You don't have to be perfect tomorrow. It's not a sin. Sin means mistake in Hebrew, right? Not, not. You're a bad person. So it's okay to make a sin, make a mistake, and, and if you're working every day to do better or whatever. And besides, I think the, and this is just any religion or whatever, I think that the. The bottom line is the choices we make and the good and bad comes from the outcomes of it. Right. And so you make a series of bad choices. You are the one who pays for it.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

In And so, um, it's about you're improving your own life. And, and the, the reason why it was appealing to me at the time is my husband and I are not We're not like. pancake breakfasts, and I'm all for all the fabulous things that churches do, you know? Sure. To help the community and everything else, but really don't wanna go bowling, you know, with the group. And the course miracles gets that way too. Like that was another thing. They're like, we're all going camping. I'm like, y'all have good time because I won't be there. You know? And so I like the self-study part. Yeah. You know, you don't have to be in, in a group and stuff, but that group, everybody there was just like, I just wanna. Stop being such a dick.

Megan:

There's a lot of value in that

Karyn:

and I wanna help more people. And that Yeah, that was good, I think, and, and questioning it. Mm-hmm. And going like, what does this mean?

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Why am I saying God's in this jar?

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

What is that? You know? So I think those things where it, so anyway, now, you know, total layman's, I highly recommend a Return to love. It's probably dated in some ways. Before she went off the deep end politically. And that's weird that she did that because, um, it is like, it's, it's not just like Helen Schucman, the woman who did it, she never practiced She like how

Megan:

funny,

Karyn:

wrote it and never did it. She said the guy did Bill the other psychologist, he got really into it and I guess wrote more books and stuff, but apparently she never did it. She's just like, yeah, I'm done. Here you go.

Katiuscia:

She did her job.

Karyn:

She did her job So it, I have two more

Megan:

Yeah. Really.

Karyn:

So you tell me is. But you were gonna say something Megan.

Megan:

So talk when you're saying that it only happened when you were listening. So, a lot of Catholics knows, most Catholic parishes don't have what our church has as it's called adoration. And we have a dedicated adoration chapel at our church, and a lot of places don't have that. But you, we believe that Jesus is present in the blessed sacrament, which is hard for a lot of people to get on board with to begin with. I could talk all day about that, but that's not what this is about.

Karyn:

What is a blessed sacrament?

Megan:

Eucharist Communion.

Karyn:

Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

Megan:

And so we will have a consecrated host, which means that it's now not just a wafer, it's Jesus For real.

Karyn:

This is my body. This is

Megan:

my mm-hmm.

Karyn:

Uhhuh

Megan:

and uh, on display in beautiful, what's called a Monstrance. Gorgeous. It's a gold, looks like the, like the sun ritual.

Karyn:

I think

Megan:

it's sweet.

Karyn:

Yeah. Yeah.

Megan:

And so we go and we spend typically an hour, but you can spend as much time as you want. Um, some people will read or pray a rosary or whatever. And um, I used to go once a week, uh, three or four in the morning.

Karyn:

Really?

Megan:

Yeah. And, um. The times where

Karyn:

the witching hour. No

Megan:

kidding. Oh, it was,

Karyn:

no, I'm

Megan:

just kidding. It's a creepy time of the night. Mm-hmm. But, um, I have such bad A DD that it's really hard for me to just sit and listen. But when I really made a concerted effort to just sit and listen, I've had some unbelievable unexplainable experiences in adoration, like after my, my grandmother died. She wasn't particularly religious. I do think she believed in Jesus. Um, and she had asked my aunt a lot about Jesus before she died, which made my aunt feel very relieved.

Karyn:

Mm-hmm.

Megan:

And um, I was just sitting there and I was just thinking about her, you know, like, okay, Jesus, just go get her. She was 94. She doesn't need, you know, just go get her.

Karyn:

Yeah.

Megan:

Make sure she's fine. And her signature color was like magenta. And the lighting in the adoration chapel, especially when it's pitch dark outside, is very buttery, soft yellow. And I blinked and I opened my eyes and the whole, and I'm all alone in this room. The all the light was totally magenta, what in the whole room. And I had this overwhelming sense of I have her, she is fine, she will rest in peace. And it was just like, oh, thank you.

Karyn:

Awesome.

Megan:

You know, so just little that

Karyn:

stuff like

Megan:

that. I mean, you are open. Stuff

Karyn:

like that happens. And I think that's the thing. I've just always been really open to it. Yeah. My friend Jackie says, you've always been on a spiritual quest and I guess I have sort of always been curious. I read there was a guy named George Anderson, god, that's like really old, but he was a, before a James Van Praagh, and you know James Basically um, talks and so he was, he was the legit, and he did a lot of and his paperback, the paperback books that are, I don't even know if you can find 'em anymore, were really fun because they were strictly transcripts. it was just like one thing after just whip through And these are like one I remember. This parents had lost their son in the Himalayas. And so they don't tell him you never know the investigative work beforehand, hand, blah, blah, blah. You know, all the skeptic stuff you have to get through to get to And, um, so he said, he told them, oh, you know, he's this and he died here and it was all pretty accurate and this and that. He said, and the he, he says, thank you. And your son says, thank you for sending the helicopter. And they're like, there were no this happens. And, uh, it's not the same as like Beverly Hills psychic. These guys were like, really? You know?

Katiuscia:

Yeah,

Karyn:

yeah, yeah. These guys were pretty, at least if they weren't legit, they had a lot of. Documentation. So he said that like six months later he got a and that they got this random photo from the photo, in the background, helicopter

Katiuscia:

Oh, wow.

Karyn:

Buzzing around and stuff. So there's like a bunch of stuff And he was really interesting. And then James Van Praagh comes along and he, he's got his stuff's totally interesting, believe it or not, you know, like he did. Was it Mike Wallace who did 60 Minutes?

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

Like back in the million years ago.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

So I think it was my, I think it was Mike Wallace who was supposed to do a whole episode on debunking him. Right. And it was gonna be like, this is a sham. And so they kept everything away from his people and his team and it supposedly all this stuff. And then, they did a pri, they did an interview with him and they did all this stuff. And then he said, would you like me to do a private reading? and he said, okay. So he did it with him off camera. And afterwards Mike Wallace came back and he said, you know, he said this or that, and you always kind but then he your mother or she's really happy. You have the blanket. And he said, A no one And he said, A no one knows that there was this family blanket there was this family was passed And he said, and two, no one in his family that he has it. Now they do. Now they, yeah. But, but he said there's no way. And he, so he, he was like, blown away. So I, so I read that and I was And then he did Cher, like where Sonny came through and, um, and said, Sonny was said. Uh, I mean these were just so But, you tried on a bunch of shoes. I was watching you and she said, I did, like, she tried on a bunch of shoes before at his funeral. So I had read all that was kind of open to it. And it's kind of like and whatever. So I don't, I just dabble in reading it and find it. And like near death experiences. Mm-hmm. Which I think are really interesting. It's never happened to me. But all that stuff, so. So my next thing that Psychic Psychic Psychic Dream. Have you ever had a dream or a premonition or something that came true for you?

Megan:

I feel like I have, but I can't remember a specific, so it could just be the power of suggestion.

Karyn:

Yeah, I know. Like think, uh uh it doesn't happen a lot. so I don't, I can't do any of these things on command. Um, but I've had a few, and one of 'em was, um, my friend Jackie's mother died pretty young, and so I had this dream and she, Jackie was living in San Francisco at the San Diego. In the dream. I went to her house, and I won't tell you it because wanna tell you it twice. So I had this dream and like for three days afterwards, I could not shake this feeling like, you need to tell Jackie, you need to tell Jackie. Every day I'd be driving to work and be tell Jackie. And I could just, you know, just like bugging me so fine. I'm like, okay. And it was before texting and stuff. So I, I finally called her and I said, okay, I had this to tell you because it's been. Bugging me than I need to tell you. And um, she said, okay. And I said, so I went to stop by your house on First Avenue. I used to go after work every day and and um, and I said, so I went by. But you were sitting at this little card table like, you know, you and Jill, her sister, and like this little card table. It was really weird. And you got up to go in the other, in the kitchen or somewhere out of the room and the door, there was a door knock. And I went to get the door and it was your mom. And she came flying in and she was wearing a red coat and she looked fantastic and she came, you know, flying through the room and she's, and she was talking to you and you're in the kitchen, you didn't really hear and stuff. And she said, well, I just wanted to say that everything's great. I'm really happy. Everything's good. I love you very much. Gotta go. And she like leaves. And then I had this, tell Jackie, tell Jackie, tell Jackie. Oh. So I told Jackie and I, she and I said, what do you think of that? She said, well, when we were little, we used to sit at a little cardboard table in the dining and my mother's favorite coat was a red And I went, well, there you go. So that was the first time, and I right. That's interesting. Anything I dream, it's to tell other people. Which is kind of annoying'cause it's never about me. And so the next time I was reading James Van Praagh and he did, it was like, how to be me, how to do what I do. And I was like, okay, I've had dreams, I can see shit now. And then let's see if I can do this. And I'll say, all I remember is you have to, you're supposed to lay in bed or lay somewhere and you close your eyes and you picture. I don't know the space around you, and then you picture the space outside around you, and then you go through your ceiling, you and you, you expand your That's as much as I remember. Anyway, so I did it and I probably fell asleep, but then I, um, I had this dream, and in my dream it said, I need you to go to tell the person whose name starts with A, that a person who's passed on whose name starts with R. Says she loves her and, she thinks of her. And go to go someone at work. And I'm like, well that's if you're gonna come all the way through. Right. So I go to work and I tell this friend of mine, Lexi, oh, and I had another part of the dream, which I didn't, I didn't mention to Lexi 'cause her mother died when she was really young, like 12 or something. And I knew way too much about Lexi to share anything.'cause I'm like, I'm just making You know, I didn't so, and of course, what'd Lexi say? Did you say it about me? You know, my mother? And I said, no, and I didn't tell her. So I said, told her what it was, and she goes, well, let's go see. Let's go see Allison. And I was like, oh, And I, I forgot, you know who started with A, there were about 30 people and stuff. So we go over to Allison, we go, Allison, this could sound really weird, but. and Lexi goes, Karyn had a psychic dream. And I'm like, well, I don't know if it's that. And she said, do you know anyone who's died whose name starts with R? And she's Did you ask Amanda?

Katiuscia:

Oh no.

Karyn:

And I'm like, oh, I didn't even know Amanda.'cause she was brand new, social media something or other. So we go over. Three of us go over and, and we go in this poor girl's office who's brand new and we say, Hey, Karyn had a dream.

Megan:

Welcome to the company. Tell me about your dead relative.

Karyn:

No, but just, she says, Karyn had a dream. And they said that someone with a name starts with A, and do you know anybody whose name start, who's passed on whose name started with R? She goes, yeah, my grandma Rose. Then Allison's like, oh, I have chills. And I go, well, she says, hi, she loves you. And she goes, okay. And that was kind of the end of that, you know, you know, maybe it's coincidence. It's pretty weird. So I thought about it and I thought, okay, I'm gonna you know, now I was encouraged.'cause I, I, I hadn't struck out completely. So I said, okay, Lexi, I did, I heard something She goes, really? I go, yeah, but I know you. And it's she said, well, was it? And I go, well, she said she's glad you have the necklace that means a lot And I said, she goes, well, maybe I don't know. So, and or No, no, no. That was not, I, I'm, she's glad you have the locket. That was it. And she goes, she's never gonna to She said maybe a necklace, maybe something So she goes home and she goes and she finds this necklace, locket this necklace in the back of her drawer. And she said she never even looked at it, just kind of shoved it in there with other stuff. And she took it out and it was a locket and she never knew it. put her thumb in the thing, opened it up. Oh, and she went, and so she came back, told and then it didn't happen again. Like the more I tried, got nothing.

Katiuscia:

Wow.

Karyn:

Yeah, so the piece de resistance, my Psychic Dreams is fast forward many years and my sister who had had a kind of rough life was pretty sick and had trouble, and I had this the most amazing dream, like you say, the room.

Katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

I had kind of one of those things and I think when you have a, like a visitation or whatever. There's a different feeling

Katiuscia:

mm-hmm.

Karyn:

Than a And I had this dream and I'm driving a minivan, which I said I'd never had a minivan, but then I got a minivan. And so I didn't have it anymore. You know, I had it when my kids were playing baseball and stuff. And so I'm in the minivan. I don't have a minivan, but I'm in the minivan. And I had, I used to wear one of those beats. Neck, like, uh, things where you have the earphone here and the hang around your Oh yeah. Does anybody do that? Oh,

Katiuscia:

okay.

Karyn:

And I, I can answer the phone, I can listen to talk radio and all this So I answer it, and it's my mom and she's dead. And, um, she says, Hey, Karyn, it's me, mom. I'm the, and I know in my dream that she's dead. She said, I need you you to do something. They need something. And then she said, she goes, I need you to do something you need to get ahold of. Um, she, no, she didn't say that. She just said, Joan needs doctors not a doctor. She said, Joan needs doctors.

Megan:

And Joan is your sister?

Karyn:

Yeah.

Megan:

Okay.

Karyn:

And she, she lived like. Not far from me, but in Northern California. And I said, okay, okay. Like, I got it, I got the message. And she said, okay, gotta run. You know, Jane and I and like all these other dead old ladies playing, playing cards or something, you know, it was like all good. And um, I said, well, well wait, wait, how's dad? And she said, he's great. So like, well tell him I love him and I love you. Okay. And it was like. There was nothing in it for me. Yes. It was like strictly, you know. But I hang up the phone and I wake up and the room is like this weird white light. Mm. Like just bright, like, and I've read like the near death stuff, super bright, but doesn't hurt your eyes. Now this is where people at work are gonna go, oh, she's a fricking nut and don't talk to Karyn. But it was like sparkling, why? And I said to Michael, I like wake him up. And I go. Do you see that? Do you see that? And he's like, no, what are you talking And, and it, it faded, you know? And I told him, and I said, you know, boa? And he goes, well, well, you better text Jenny and Emmy. Those are her daughters, And I said, okay. So I text them no answer. So I call 'em no answer. And they're busy with their young lives. And so I let a little time go by, but it was really urgent. I could tell and stuff. So I did. And I did and I didn't. And I finally got ahold of Jenny and she's very Catholic, and I said, Hey, I had this dream, and it was grandma, and she said, blah, blah, blah. And she goes, okay, Ryan, her husband is a Ryan's on his way over went there, found her on the floor. And took her to emergency. She saw a cardiologist. She saw a bone person.'cause osteo. She saw multiple doctors.

Megan:

Wow.

Karyn:

And the last one she saw said that, I think it was her sodium, whatever it was, was so low. She had about a half an probably. Wow. Left. And the thing is, she's so stubborn, which people who make. Poor choices. They're often stubborn Um,

Megan:

amen.

Karyn:

She's so stubborn that when he said We need to go, she did not wanna go.'cause she'd been in and outta hospitals and rehab and people don't want to go, you And he said, your mom told Karyn you need to go. And she's like, okay. And that's the only reason she went.

Katiuscia:

Oh, wow.

Karyn:

Because she wouldn't have gone if I said but because my mom whatever and she's lived Like, not high quality of life, but she, yeah, it saved her like, well, if I can, you know? So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to think

Katiuscia:

but that's pretty amazing that it's,

Karyn:

it is

Katiuscia:

that, so now Karyn, do you find that all of this, the psychic dreams and everything, did this all happen after Oh, you started this, yeah, was kind of, this was

Karyn:

way later.

Katiuscia:

Okay. But would you say that your. I guess spiritual journey. Yeah. Right. Your exploration, would it, did it all kind of stem in that with reading the Course of Miracles?

Karyn:

I think that the Course in Miracles was probably the best tool for changing me. So it's a shame that I stopped and actually as I got it out to look at it, I was like, I should I should really because it really does. Make you a better, But no, I think, um, actually it's combination. I think like Sunday school and all that stuff, all the fundamentals. And then I think now with having like better movies, honest to God, I, and I grew up with like Jesus Christ Superstar, uh, little late Godspell was kind of before me, but Ted Neely, you'd have to Google him. He was a babe. He was Jesus. And I can probably sing every lyric. All the words to Jesus Christ Superstar. There was a time in my life where I wanted to direct it.

Katiuscia:

Oh. I mean,

Karyn:

I was like hard. I was like, I, you know, I could do that. I can do Mary Magdalene's part. I can, and so my reference,

Megan:

oh yeah, buddy,

Karyn:

he was cute. Oh. Yeah. They always get cute. Jesus'. You know, they have to kinda helps sell the show.

Megan:

Well I also don't feel like actual Jesus would've been heinous looking like he had to have been Probably pretty

Karyn:

cute. It was symmetrical.

Megan:

We

Karyn:

know that from shroud.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Um, but um, you could do a whole shroud. Oh,

Megan:

I'm so into that. I could talk about the shroud for three hours.

Karyn:

I don't know. I'm not an expert but

Megan:

it's good.

Karyn:

I'll, I'll go with it. Um, and the Catholic church hiding stuff.

Megan:

Oh yeah.

Karyn:

From us.

Megan:

Yeah. Yeah.

Karyn:

But I think, that, I think it, it makes it, I, I think it made it easier. Like I have zero fear of death, zero and total curiosity.

Megan:

That's a cool way to be

Karyn:

of what is next. And I am not afraid of exploring reincarnation. I read all those books. About the little Asian girl that they take back to a town who says that she's grandma so and so.

Megan:

Oh yeah.

Karyn:

Have you read that one? And she, no, what I've heard about it, the story. Yeah. And she goes back and she goes, that's where the bank was and that's where this was. And they go, yeah, that's is. And then they go back and look at the records and it was, you know, yeah, it's been torn down

Katiuscia:

creepy.

Karyn:

And she's like, and you owe me money.

Katiuscia:

Oh.

Karyn:

To somebody. And the guy's like I did. over money. Oh, wow. You know, so I mean, those are, those are kind of fascinating. Yeah. And, and I know in Christianity, at least in Presbyterianism, it's like one life, one shot, one soul. Sure. Mm-hmm. And um, so there are a lot of people when you talk to, they can't wrap their head around reincarnation. I don't think you come back as a gecko, you know, but, but then who?

Katiuscia:

I would hope not. But who? For me? I would hope not. I'm so terrified. I'm such a phobia.

Karyn:

Maybe a dog.

Katiuscia:

Okay. I would come back as the dog. You

Karyn:

want some ity? You one of

Megan:

Katiuscia's dogs.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Megan:

Probably

Katiuscia:

would be

Megan:

the way to go

Katiuscia:

as one of my dogs.

Karyn:

Demon dog or

Megan:

No, they're very well cared for

Katiuscia:

loved dogs. I would come back

Karyn:

as your

Katiuscia:

dog. Yeah. I don't wanna be like that. There was that movie about the dog that was trying to find the owner, A Dog's Way home or something. Dennis. Dennis Quaid. Yes. And then the one life he woke up in first, remember he was the police dog and he got shot saving his person and then he woke up as this other dog that some scary

Karyn:

isn't kind of like Call

Katiuscia:

of the Wild where he

Karyn:

goes through

Katiuscia:

all this, like left him tied up in the back, yet I, it's horrible. It's terrible. And then spoiler alert for anyone. He ended up finding his, his people and they recognized him and I'm just like, what?

Karyn:

I know it's

Katiuscia:

crazy. So I would wanna be one of my dogs probably. That's true.

Karyn:

And I think chromosome lineup, like the whole DNA thing is really fascinating. Like they do a transplant all of a sudden the woman chicken nuggets and coke and she's never wanted that in her life. And they find out the guy she got it on his way to get chicken nuggets and a coke when he got slammed. You know, there's a lot of that. So what we carry in our DNA is probably, yeah. Some of it, well,

Megan:

they don't know where memories live.

Karyn:

Right.

Megan:

And there is some research to suggest that at least some of our memories live in our heart because people with heart transplants have all of a sudden new memories.

Karyn:

Yeah. Isn't that weird?

Megan:

Yeah,

Karyn:

I know. Uh,

Megan:

it's really, that's super interesting.

Karyn:

So I, I mean, there's a lot of directions and stuff, but I think

Katiuscia:

I

Karyn:

love it. Uh, you know, you still, you Follow the basics.

Katiuscia:

I think that's what it's all about though. That's how we learn and grow and learn new things that so many people just live their lives following this path and just reading and learning everything they have to learn on that one path. But there's so many different things. Not that you have to travel down every path, but if you're just kind of. I look at it as the kids who were super sheltered growing up, where you're like nerd, um, nerd alert, and then the kids that were a little more edgy or had a little more because they were just exposed to more, whether except

Karyn:

for like Christine, who in third grade thought she Yeah, those guys,

Katiuscia:

well, that's a little,

Karyn:

they could be foreshadowing some problems.

Katiuscia:

That's, I mean,

Karyn:

no, but yeah. The, the artsy,

Katiuscia:

there's, I mean, yes, but

Karyn:

just, I had artsy friends and they were, they were interesting and their parents

Katiuscia:

I think it's just always fun to be willing to have a conversation and learn what other people have learned in their life. Mm-hmm. Because I can't learn everything. There's no way, like there's no way you can visit every place in the world before you die. There's no way you can learn everything that needs to be learned to fully achieve like enlightenment of I know everything. Right.

Karyn:

And it's the narcissism that came with, um, new age too. Yeah. Because it was all about me.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And my, and my exploration and going to see the guru and then the guru goes, yeah, go home and do something good for somebody, you know? It's that narcissism. And I think if you're, if you're not in it for that

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

If you're help others grow nothing

Megan:

that I think with anything.'cause I know that a lot of Christians and Catholics kind of panic about new age stuff.

Karyn:

Mm-hmm.

Megan:

And like I said, I've, I've seen some shit, but I think at its core it was a movement to make people better people.

Karyn:

Right.

Megan:

And same with. You know,

Karyn:

DEI? Oh

Megan:

no. Oh God, no. But I think anything the same with,

Karyn:

well, there's some good that came out of it.

Megan:

Um, Christianity, you know, different, like the Lutherans thought, well this isn't the way we, this is a better way. And I don't think that that was a malicious intent. I think they were trying to do better. And, you know, sometimes, but then it gets distorted,

Karyn:

right?

Megan:

And perverted into something that could be harmful to people. And so I think if you're willing to dig through it and not just blindly jump into something.'cause that's how people end up in, in a cult.

Katiuscia:

In a cult.

Megan:

You know, if you're willing to dig through it and ask the questions and find the nuggets of the things that will help you be the better person, I think that that's,

Karyn:

yeah. It's how much are you sacrificing, right? Sure. If you're cutting off your family.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And doing stuff like that, there's probably something wrong.

Katiuscia:

Well, I was gonna say that every cult starts with the do better, be a better person. Mm-hmm. That's how they get you.'cause everybody, I think at their core, everybody wants this. Like everybody wants to be a good person. Shit, I wanna be a great person every day. Right. Like, you wanna do these things, but it's just so hard.

Karyn:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

To,

Karyn:

it's

Katiuscia:

the do it discipline. So it's the discipline. It's. The accountability to yourself mm-hmm. To your, to everyone around you. It's, there's a lot of pressure that then you end up putting on yourself. There's so many things, but I would like to point out that every cult starts like this. Yeah. It's how far you go in it. There are Christians that were like, yeah, uh, simmer down there. You're going way too

Megan:

deep. Well, there in parts of Christianity that are harming people. Yes. Yes. So, yeah. I mean, it's every, every group,

Karyn:

if it's judging other groups, I mean. Something are worth judging. Something, something worth

Katiuscia:

judging.

Karyn:

Yeah, because you have to. But if it's, um, if it's refusing, I think that's the sad don't look I mean there are, I think, and I could be wrong, I think there are really fundamentalist Christians that are like, tarot is and you know, you're gonna drum up and people with Ouija And I think, well, I mean, maybe, um, but. It depends. Are you substituting one thing for another, right? Are you su, are you putting all of your faith? What is it? You shall have no other gods but me and false idols and whatever, if it's a false idol. But I, I think it may have been the course. It said that, that no other gods but me. One of the interpretations was time.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

Money. Right? Is that kind of generally known

Megan:

your Instagram. Sure.

Karyn:

Anything that you make a focus beyond. And I think that goes back to the course too, which is to just, that's what the deprogramming is that all this other stuff to get back to the core. It's a little monk-like, I guess, you know, like they chant and they do all this stuff to just get into that zone. Um, but then if that's all you do.

Katiuscia:

Yeah, but all of us, at the end of the day, we're all slaves to this world. We're slaves to everything we own.

Karyn:

You don't have to be though.

Katiuscia:

No, no, no. I know, but I'm saying generally, generally, that's what we all are. We can't live without certain things we do.

Karyn:

Oh, but you can,

Katiuscia:

I, saying you can if you go through the process and, and getting, getting to be there. I will say things like Ouija boards, I'm of the belief of anything can be used for. Bad.

Karyn:

Good or bad. Yeah.

Katiuscia:

I don't welcome that shit in my house. No.'cause I don't even want it in my, like I don't want, yeah, I don't want, I don't the purpose, I don't want it entertained in my house.

Karyn:

Why are you draw, why are you

Katiuscia:

Right, right, right. I don't wanna watch scary movies in my house, especially if there are exorcisms and things. True stories. Right. There's a lot of movies, like documentary style movies that have been made on Exorcist and their works. I don't want any of it in my house. I don't wanna. I just, to me it's like you're opening a window and maybe it's because, and it's not that I'm not strong in my faith, it's just that I think that evil, the devil wants an opening for anything and they'll take the smallest one.

Karyn:

And that's a whole nother thing of demons and devil. And what's real. So the course of people have a lot of trouble with it, says that these are constructs, like mental that we, and, and illness too, which is, I think people have a lot of My, my, my mother who's real, she was super skeptical about it. So when I talked to around, she goes like, are you saying that you know, someone has cancer? They gave it to themselves. And it's like, no, it's more, sometimes it's a, well, it's stress and we know the thing, you know.

Katiuscia:

Sure.

Karyn:

But I can remember like when I was sick, I would do from this, a prayer that says, I don't need to go in the hospital. I don't need to be sick to get I know that I am loved, I know that, people appreciate me. I don't need this and that kind of thing, because you sometimes, you find yourself going like, oh, I just need to rest. And suddenly you're, you're in the hospital with a kidney infection and you gotta rest. And so, you know, I don't know how much is self-fulfilling and stuff, but I think that, uh, it, it loses people because it says like, as soon as you basically. And again, I'm paraphrasing this stuff, but when you believe that there can be a cure, it will be found that all things exist. So like when we find a cure for AIDS or we find a cure for this, it's not like poof. That it's there all along and when enough, it's a lot of collective consciousness kinda stuff. If, when everybody has a, has an intention to find it, to believe in it, to whatever, then So wherever we put our priority, wherever you, and that's big now too, right? Wherever you put your focus, wherever you, whatever you intend. And even quantum physics is doing that, right? Which I do not get that. When you look at something, it materializes and if you're not looking at it, it's not there. I don't what the have a quantum I don't stuff. I don't get, but it's happening. So, you know, it's basically you define your own reality, what you see. And I can tell you in our household, I see good. My husband sees graffiti, we're driving down, he'll be like, I'll be like, oh, look at the trees. They're getting buds, you know? And he'll be like, look at the graffiti. There's more of it. It wasn't like this three years ago we moved here. And I'm like, man, you know, you get what you see.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Look for it.

Megan:

What you focus on expands. Yeah.

Karyn:

Each of our. Children, uh, because being a helicopter you know, having kids late a career first, you, I tended maybe be a little overly protective and controlling and then you find out and you have to backpedal, And um, I realized at one point I'm like, I think that almost spiritually we have a mission for each child. I wish my parents had probably recognized what mine have gotten a lot of help a lot sooner, but I was like, I know this Bachelor number one needs this bachelor number two needs this.

Megan:

Mm.

Karyn:

And the way I motivate him and the way I support him is through this and this one. some empathy work, you know, so we need to help him go like, do you know how you sounded when you said that? And that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. To help, not because we want him to be this perfect being, but so that he doesn't piss somebody off someday by going like, you know, by being kind of stoic and, um, I think with don't listen to this Michael. I think it's really to, it was to shift perspective.'cause he was like really non-judgmental and. Positive when I met him and stuff and being in the entertainment industry, 'cause he did films and TV commercials He just, you get cynical because you watch Disney eat your studio and you know, lay off your friends And so he'll, he'll see that and, and I see with the and like little by little, like going, well, I think everything's gonna be okay I'm like, well, who are you? And I think that he, I know his goal with me. There's many to help me on my path. But I thought, I think my purpose is to just help shift in that perspective You can let go. gonna work. You know, the surrender

Katiuscia:

That's awesome.

Karyn:

So I saved my best for last.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

How are we on time?

Katiuscia:

We're good.

Karyn:

It's not my best. It's, it's the weirdest thing. Ooh, okay. Ha. Are you familiar audience? No. Are you familiar with a thing called Finding Dimes

Megan:

Is that like pennies from heaven?

Karyn:

Maybe what's pennies from heaven

Megan:

that when your loved ones are thinking about you, they'll throw a penny down on the ground in front of you.

Karyn:

Ah, it is exactly like that, but it's dimes.

Megan:

Okay. And,

Karyn:

um,

Katiuscia:

more va I like more value.

Karyn:

More value. And smaller

Katiuscia:

and pennies are being discontinued.

Karyn:

More difficult. Yeah. So it's a good thing because your people are cut off from me now.

Megan:

My brother was real cheap. I'm never getting a dime outta him.

Karyn:

So we, this is not something that either of us believed in, but now you know, the skeptic. Bachelor number four, bachelor Number three, my husband. And then, well actually technically number one. he was the first and the other two men. Um, so Well, not my first. No, no, no. That's a whole nother podcast.

Katiuscia:

We got it. We followed the first man. He came first in

Karyn:

the family.

Katiuscia:

Yes.

Karyn:

Got it. The head father, the patron. So he, he, so he's the more skeptical. And he, and I think he was raised, I think Presbyterian, which is weird 'cause he is completely Italian, but there was like one Scottish that got in there. So he was raised Presbyterian, but he's not like a Sunday school, doesn't know any you know, I know two And, um, so anyway, he's sort of skeptical. So the, so what happened is we moved from San Diego to Idaho and we moved very quickly. We bought at the top of the market, which is really a bad thing. But, um, we were really lucky 'cause we got a house in North End and we didn't know where we were going. We didn't know what we were doing, but we knew we had to get it, so we got it. So he had to stay in San Diego and renovate our house. Then he, we'd been working on forever, but he had to get it and he, he did art direction and stuff for and so he can do a lot and unfortunately what happens with art directors and anyone who has anyone who does that kinda stuff. They don't want anyone else to do it because they're perfectionists. So he had to, he did the floors, he did walnut veneer for all our cabinets in the kitchen. Wow. Yeah. It was in a magazine. Um, it was a beautiful house and. But it wasn't like he, we did everything painted inside, outside, landscaping, everything. I designed the kitchen. It was really cool. It was everything I wanted to live with and never got to.

Megan:

Oh,

Karyn:

so, but that's the way it goes. So he did all this stuff. So he had to live there for three months by himself and he's absolutely We're loving it here. First of all, my house was clean 'cause he hadn't brought all his crap. And then, my boys and I, they lived with us at first before they got their own places and stuff. And, um. It was just fantastic. You know, we went, we went to sightseeing in Boise, summer and he's just in hell in San Diego doing this. And he had teams, you know, he had people So he says to me, when I, I gotta tell you something really weird. finding like, dimes, do we leave like a bunch of dimes? And he goes, no, like random. He said, like, I went out to, we had a washer and dryer in the garage. He goes, I went out and there were like two dimes of the washer They fell out of a I pick them up and then he said like, the next day there's one, there's a dime in front of the door going in. Then I'm like, huh. And it was, it was regular, right? So then I was like, well, that's really weird. So I had to Google it, you know, what does it, does anybody find it? And there's this whole thing, you can Google it. There's this whole thing on finding dimes, and some people get into like, which side is up? What's the year? I don't get into all that stuff, but it is like pennies from heaven, right? Where it's supposed to be communicating and there's different. Ideas about what it means and stuff, but it's supposed to be from beyond. Mm-hmm. And it's supposed to be kind of, everything's gonna be okay. And I'm with you. So I was like, well, someone knows whoever it is that you're going through hell, and they're just telling you it's okay. So he is like, okay. So then I go down there to see my house done before it And we had to sleep on an air mattress because it was being shown. Then shove it in the closet. So we have this Air Max. It's been flipped all over the house, right? Moving from room to room. We had a sheet on it, pulled the sheet off, whatever, and I turned around and there's a fricking dime sitting in the middle. I have pictures on my phone. I can show you my There's a dime sitting in the middle of it. And I went, Michael, come. And he comes in and he goes, what I told you? And it was, I was like, okay. And he goes, that one's for you. You know? And then I think something else happened, whatever. So then I start, I was here about five months before I started the I started the chamber, and the first day I'm walking in and I look down and in front of the back door, we go in, I'm like, no So I take a picture every time And I mean, it really would be one thing if it was a but it's like, it was crazy. So then, um, I'm doing something else and there's like shelf Oh, wow. And it's just like I'm trying to think. So this has happened periodically over three years, randomly, like not for months. And and about a month I had, uh, we were, he had told me and I think it was because we were talking about my dad and we were talking about and I threw my bathrobe on the bed. I went to go blow dry my hair I came back and there's a dime and it's on the lapel of my bath. And he comes in and he never believes me, and it happened to him. He's like, he thinks you're just planting dimes. He thinks I'm doing it. He's all, you're doing this, aren't you? And I'm like, no. He said, did you dump out a purse or whatever? I went, no. So there's no explanation. No. Then about a week later, I decided to actually clean something and I pulled everything, all my shoes out of the bottom of my There's like a rack they put in, like, those sort of cheap custom kind of things. And I pull the rack out and I'm vacuuming all the Aussie hair that's all over the place. And in the very back corner it's one dime sitting in the No purses.

Katiuscia:

Yeah, that's

Karyn:

too pockets.

Katiuscia:

That's too random to be like random Penny on the street.

Karyn:

So Michael tells his friend Noreen in San Diego, who is a neighbor who I never talked He talked to Noreen's dad. We were very close to his dad. His dad was, her dad was an architect and a really awesome architect. Built stuff all over San Diego. Really cool, really cool guy. Lived John, John Mock and John Mock. Uh, we used to, I think we went the Timkin Museum, if anyone knows San Diego. He designed the Um, and he, he was, he was just super cool. So really nice guy, really great. So he tells Noreen and Noreen goes, I've been So now they send each other of like these random So I, I'm not saying you can totally shoot holes I guess. how, but you can,

Katiuscia:

I know. I don't know pennies. I just, I feel like I see pennies all the time. It's rare. Sometimes I'll see a dime, sometimes I'll see a quarter, which I'm like, what a win.

Karyn:

Oh yeah. There are certain rules. If you've dumped out a purse or if you do something else, doesn't It has to be random out the No random the I'm saying

Katiuscia:

on the street.

Karyn:

Yeah.

Katiuscia:

If I ever find

Karyn:

a DIA report, I, it can't be with another It has to be Yeah. I don't know why those are rules we made up.

Katiuscia:

Oh.

Karyn:

I think to differentiate between like, oh, you're Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know. I do think the only correlation I can see is just usually when. We've been talking about or thinking but not necessarily. Not Like I hadn't been talking or thinking about anybody, I

Katiuscia:

That's wild. wild.

Karyn:

Now everybody can

Katiuscia:

looking for the dimes.

Karyn:

But you Google it because I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff. What else you got? I

Katiuscia:

love that. know what else, what else you got to share?

Karyn:

In the metaphysical I read, this was my thinking, I don't know. I think, you know, when we were talking about this, I said, can you have a conversation that you don't necessarily believe in at all? You know, but you just kind of throwing it out there.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Have you ever talked to people about ghost I always wanted to have like a which I guess now is

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

And just talk to people about this kind of stuff.

Megan:

Yeah.' Karyn: cause I think every, I love ghost stories,

Karyn:

great We went to a dinner party and granted, they're all movie so they're weird, but they were all, you know, they were all different. It was costume designers, miniature makers, all different and everybody was telling their ghost stories. And you know, Ray, who's like really basically down to earth guy, we never talk. Well, politics, yes, but not Said, yeah, I had this dream and I was floating, uh, I, blah, blah, blah. Out of the, it was out of the body stuff, like astral projection, whatever. And he goes, and I opened my eyes and I could see the vent, the heating vent. And I was like, whoa. You know, and, and so people are telling like those And so I said, well, sometimes I see auras and waiting. And my friend C goes, I do too. I said, you do and, and it wasn't really a hard stretch to but, but I said, huh? And I thought, because I only believe myself. And I'm like, okay, well I don't know why, but I can see so and so. I think he was her husband. I can see Jimmy's right now. And I said, go over. She said, so can I? And I said, because I guess she could. Either, you know, do it on command or saw more often, And I said, go over and hold your, hold your hand where it is. So she takes her hand and she goes like this, and she goes down and down and down. And she stopped exactly like that. I was seeing, oh. I was like, So whatever we were seeing,

Katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

Or she was lucky. yeah, so I think like ghost stories are, I mean, we have stories. Those are fun. All of that is like, you can get into the, are they trapped? Are they this, whatever. But I mean, I don't really care about any of that stuff. I just think it's interesting that sometimes the things overlap.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

You know,

Katiuscia:

and the people who can communicate. I mean, there's a whole school of thought on that too when it comes to religion and faith not really. Of religion,

Karyn:

but, but, but how come the, sorry, my throat. How come the Catholics are okay with exorcism, right? Mm-hmm. Like there's a demon mm-hmm. And we can get it out.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

But they're not okay with like, some kind of messaging or you hearing like that's

Megan:

A lot of the Exorcist priests will say that like, if somebody. And I don't know what they would say about like a dream that you're having yourself, but they talk about like the people who say that, well, your dead grandma's coming through.

Karyn:

Right. What do they say

Megan:

about that? They say that that's a demon.

Karyn:

See, I don't

Megan:

know. Impersonating the dead grandma.

Karyn:

Why?

Megan:

Because I don't know why.

Karyn:

Yeah, because James Van Praagh says, and this is con, all that stuff's pretty convenient, right? if it, if it leaves you with a good feeling, it's a visitation. If it leaves you with a negative feeling, it can either be stuff like almost Freudian and like rearing up from your subconscious or maybe, you know, a demon or evil or whatever. But

Megan:

yeah,

Karyn:

most of the time if you have a a, a really positive good feeling stuff, they'll say

Megan:

Yeah. The only thing I can think of is that, you know, if somebody's dead and they're in heaven, they're not coming back to talk to you through. What's that lady's name with the big acrylic nails?

Katiuscia:

Theresa caputo.

Megan:

Thank you. One of the psychic, you know, and so maybe the demon is pretending to do that, to pull you farther away from the church. I don't, that's my guess. I, I think maybe they're

Karyn:

psychic, right? I think maybe they pick up on things, and this is, I don't have any justification for this, but maybe they sense things from us, like they can, they have a greater intuitiveness from us that then they interpret as. Because, uh, we think and know a lot of stuff that we aren't conscious of. Right. And that's what I was, we were talking about too. There's a book called Blink.

Megan:

Yeah. Ugh. Malcolm Gladwell

Karyn:

great. Such a good book, bad with Authors. It's a great book, right? Mm-hmm. And you remember the story he tells about, uh, uh, an appraiser who sees a statue that the Getty has purchased?

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

And he says it's a fake. He says it like immediately and they're like, oh ha, no, it's been checked out. We just paid $3 million. It's not a fake. And he says it is. And then when they do it, you know it is. So he says that the gut feelings that we think we have are not there are super computer brain. Mm-hmm. Calculating what, you know, this'cause you read it, that they're calculating a million different. Hues body language, this, that, the shape of things, how it's carved after color that we're not even conscious of. And immediately we get that gut of like, bad person, or, mm, that's not the right thing to do. Or whatever. And so it's not a gut feeling. It's a, it's a computerized And I think maybe they have sort of a g for kind of, although the random stuff, the blankets, yeah. And the whatever. I don't know how you

Megan:

I don't either.

Karyn:

else.

Katiuscia:

The one thing I have to say about religion and just, and it's probably because I'm doing Bible in a year.

Karyn:

Oh, that's cool.

Katiuscia:

And there were people that would get messaging from God Yeah. Directly. Yeah. That then had to share, so. The psychics and all of this. I understand it, but I'm like, but biblically, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot because it's there. People had those abilities. So I guess my thing is always how are, who are we to say that maybe someone doesn't have that ability and if, and I, I kind of like the. If it happens and it leaves you with a good feeling, it's a visitation. If it happens and it's negative, there's also that third option where if it happens and it leaves you, like, now I have to know more. And now you've spiraled down that you have to now deep dive, and that's where I think it's more. Evil demonic because it's pulling you away from your reality. You know, if it becomes your God, it becomes your whole thing.

Karyn:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia:

So that's where I feel like that could be a flip also.

Karyn:

Yeah. I remember when I was, and I think during this time, I, I was driving 'cause I did a lot of driving in my job and I was thinking, and I thought, I forget who I was listening to, but, um, I thought I wanna be, when I'm an angel assumptive. When I'm an angel, I wanna help people transition. I've probably seen that like Meg Mm-hmm. You know the one that's based on the German movie Fall?

Katiuscia:

Yeah. Angel. City of Angels.

Karyn:

City of German one's better. Michael It's Nick Cage. So, um, what can I say? Um, so I remember I thought, and I, when I wanna be an angel, that helps people transition you know, dying and go And then I've had this overwhelming feeling like, why wait? I don't really wanna do hospice care. God bless those people. And so I think in my life I've always, I've done a lot of nonprofit work. know, this is a chamber, it's nonprofit, it's to promote. The economy and business. But I've also worked for the YMCA and I've worked for other did a lot of financial scholarships and helped a lot of families get to go to camp and do all those things and stuff. But not, not really. I mean, I'm really pretty corporate, you know, I like, I like the whole bottom a buck. I'm a capitalist, I admit it.'cause capitalists fund the money for the charity. Sure. Right. So you gotta have it. But I think I came to where, you know what, you ca you don't have to do it everything as a career, but you do it individually. That goes back to sort of one miracle You help people who are in that stage. Like my, my father-in-law who was really old when he died and, and had a really rough last and I think, you know, I don't know that I. Certainly didn't try to convert him or do anything like that. I think he had his own faith, but, um, just treat him normally, talk to Michael actually did that for someone. We had a friend who was dying some horrible and he had been married to my friend and they had been divorced for a long time and he still loved And she had moved on and it was, they, they were really young. He said, do you think And I said, Well, she had been like really young when she married him. He was like and she'd totally gotten her life together. She looked like a million bucks. And she was a successful So she walked in to his hospice care and like all of studio geeks, all the little guys from the model shop and everything like dropped. They're like, who's coming to see? So first of all, he was like the big man on campus because he's coming to see Orlando. And then she sat with him for hours and they reminisced and talked about things. And I mean, it was. It was a huge gift and Michael stuff. And I thought, so those things that you can know, without giving your whole life I mean, if you do, God bless people who

Katiuscia:

do it is a very special person who can do that. Mm-hmm. Who can do it. My mom is one of those people. She's phenomenal in helping people in those last days, months. She's always said, do this. And she's looked into it like when she retires someday and doesn't have to work. I think that that's what she would wanna do

Karyn:

mm-hmm.

Katiuscia:

Is just help people. She, she'll talk about death with them. Like she'll, however they're comfortable, she'll go with it. And she's just a really good caretaker. So it is a gift if, if Michael can do it, if you can do that.

Karyn:

Well, he, he arranged it. He's, he's a little more squirrely with stuff, but he was cool with that. I mean, he just wanted to do the right thing I think, It's a hard line, you know, you don't wanna be sitting there telling people like, you know, what's next for them or what they're going through. but it's a gift. I've talked to a lot of nurses'cause I worked with nurses. I was consulting for a medical company at one time, and, nurses have stories.

Megan:

Yeah, they do.

Karyn:

you like the one woman said she was sitting in with a, a patient. I think the patient's daughter too. she wasn't I can't, a lot of stories, they have a kind of go, well, you know, who are you gonna believe? Why not?

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

I'm outta stories.

Katiuscia:

That's

Karyn:

cool. Anything else might really compromise me.

Katiuscia:

I, um, I thank you for sharing Yeah. With all of this cool stuff and just kind of presenting it in a way that it's also easily digestible. I mean, you're a great storyteller and speaker anyway. Good. But I think to present it in a way where it's not overwhelming, not scary, it's just kind of easy even for people listening.

Karyn:

I hope

Katiuscia:

so, that it's just. It's just interesting shit when you really put it all down and, and why not just listen and have the conversation and ask the questions? You don't, so I think that's

Megan:

don't to buy into it a hundred percent.

Katiuscia:

You just No, you don't, don't all have to go Google what courses or what groups are in Boise. Yeah. Can start a group. Yeah. You don't have have to do that, but it's just, I like the premise of it. Everyone wants to, we wanna do better in life. And every, most, most people wanna do better. Some people are really, they really like where they're at in, they're, you know, whether it's victimhood or their anger, that's fine. So I'm not gonna tell them,

Karyn:

but No. And different times of your life, right?

Katiuscia:

Totally different seasons.

Karyn:

It's all little people in church.'cause the closer you get or you start to believe or you start to hope.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Right. But I, I think I thought about being a teacher because they have a thing called the unhealed teacher. And it means you don't have to be like, oh, you know?

Katiuscia:

Mm-hmm.

Karyn:

You have to be there, um, because you learn from your students. Sure. And you learn things. And I thought about it 'cause I thought, I wanna have a group that's psych, Right. But I, I didn't devote the So if you're, if you're, if you're interview, we want Karyn to teach us, you let me know, but I mean, I don't know. I think I just need to go back and do a few and see maybe different, is not the way I remember

Katiuscia:

different times in our life though. Yeah, like I mean, you said, and it's also that different season that you're in of, what am I. What am I expecting? What am I putting out in the world right now? Everything changes'cause your values and your everything there. You know, there's different alignments at different times, so it's just a matter of finding that right one.

Karyn:

Yeah. And I, you have to, it's just like politics. You have to think about your clients and everything else. Sure. So I had to think okay, I've got. 200 or so people going through a leadership program. Well, you know, if you include everybody at one time and hundreds of young professionals and hundreds of this, and what are they gonna think? And then I'm like, care.

Katiuscia:

No.

Karyn:

if anything, I'm probably gonna get the, can you see my aura? Which, you know, maybe if I shut up and look at, maybe I But even then, good. The texture

Megan:

sparkly,

Karyn:

you're, yeah, you're really

Katiuscia:

It's What's been going on in your past.

Karyn:

Yeah. So

Katiuscia:

no, I think it's very cool. Thank you for sharing. Thanks for having me so much.

Karyn:

Next time with martinis,

Katiuscia:

I mean, obviously Yeah. It's always the best. Right? A good stiff martini. Um, yeah. So we're gonna let you close it out with our, have a good day to everyone.

Megan:

goes. Yeah.

Katiuscia:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Have a good day to everyone, except for whoever came up with or uses the term Karen, for obnoxious people, because I don't get why it's not okay to say racial slurs about other groups, but it's okay. I can't even use my name at Starbucks. Because God forbid my coffee's cold or something.

Megan:

Yeah.

Karyn:

Oh, it, I can't. It did reel me in, I have to say.

Megan:

Now, does being named Karyn then give you the privilege of getting to say derogatory things about other people?

Karyn:

No, because it really makes you behave, especially when it first started. When it first started. I. I looked as civil warriors because someone needs to tell people to get off that lawn. You know? That's true. If I'm protecting your lawn,

Katiuscia:

it's true.

Karyn:

I'm doing a civil duty.

Katiuscia:

You are doing a civil duty

Karyn:

and they've really gone off the deep end, right? They're really horrible, et cetera. So first of all, Karen's a terrible name and I tried to change it many times. I went by Jill. I was like in eighth grade. And then I went, when I went to school in Mexico, they called me Karina 'cause they couldn't pronounce Karyn. And I was like, uh, uh, and, and my friends go, you should have stuck with that. And um, it's not a great name to begin kind of, and it totally shows your age. But it's just not nice to do that to a group. Oh. So I was gonna say, when it first started. I said to my sons, this is, you know, I was really upset. I was total Karen. I was like, this is so wrong. They shouldn't do that. And, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not a Karen and my sons, both of them at the same time. Well, you kind of are. I was like, oh my God. And so it, that's

Megan:

something only your kids could do to you.

Karyn:

So I think it caused me to think about my behavior and, and at the same time, I think it's not fair. Because if you truly have a complaint about, so like, I think the, the, the current, what is the current generation? It's not z. What are they?

Megan:

Alpha,

Karyn:

alpha, alpha, They are so careful about everything. They say that you've seen all the comedy stuff, Rick Gervais and everything else. It's really hard to have humor. They have no humor. Really? No.

Megan:

Okay. I'm gonna say then that's not Gen Alpha.'cause my kids are Gen Alpha and they're hilarious and usually not appropriate about

Karyn:

it. Well, that's why you can't go with this generation stuff. Yeah.'cause it doesn't fit everybody. Yeah. But as a group, they're so caught. Like you, they go, you can't say that. I'll be like, well what? What do you think?

Megan:

The F I can't.

Karyn:

So, you know, I think, there's a happy medium, right? You don't wanna be an obnoxious witch, but you should be able to say, Hey. That's not Okay. Good. And they're like, so if somebody's keying a car and you're a caring for going knock it off, that's personal property. What?

Megan:

Where's the line?

Karyn:

Where's the line? Yeah. I'd be like, thank you, Karyn. That was my car. You know? So I think it's, there's just a balance. But

Katiuscia:

there is, I'm gonna, I did, we did go through a big period where it was, there was a whole thing on social media with the hairstyle, right? Like, oh. This hairstyle already wants to do I have it? No, no, no. It is blonde mostly. No, it's like the John and Kate plus eight. Do you remember that show?

Karyn:

Oh, sorry.

Megan:

The real,

Katiuscia:

oh God, the swoop here. Swoop the low, the, the cross. You know, like the pixie almost. But it was, uh, if, if, you know, if, can I speak to a manager was a haircut.

Megan:

I'm gonna gonna say every woman with that haircut was a big old bitch.

Karyn:

I did that the other day

Megan:

Oh, good.

Karyn:

Does that mean that I, no, my

Megan:

name is Jill. Can I talk to your manager?

Karyn:

Yeah. My name is Jill. Yeah, that's it. I'm gonna do that from now on. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I was really nice and I apologized to the person. I'm like, I'm really sorry, but I needed to ask somebody else she's new. She's like, I'm new. Yeah, perfect. I was, but I wouldn't have done It's only since epidemic. Oh. That I was like, you need Yeah. And, and say it nicely.

Katiuscia:

Well,

Karyn:

getting older and having kids who are in those jobs. you, I'm much more patient.'cause I realize that. know anything. And they're doing their best. Yeah. Yeah. So

Katiuscia:

that's all we

Karyn:

can do. You get more patient

Katiuscia:

well have a good day. To everyone except the people who made Karyn a Karyn thing

Karyn:

and you, what's yours? Everybody? Except what?

Katiuscia:

Oh no. We just pick one in episode. That's

Karyn:

Oh, just me. You just, just the Karen. Karyn. Yeah. Stop calling people. Karyn's.

Katiuscia:

Everyone else just have a good day

Karyn:

and everybody else have a good day. Yeah,

Katiuscia:

All right. Thank you for coming on, Karyn.

Karyn:

You Thank you. Ugh.

Katiuscia:

Thanks, Karyn. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Bye everyone.

Karyn:

Bye.