Overturning Conversion Therapy | Episode 36

The Supreme Court drops a shocking bombshell ruling on Colorado's ban on 'conversion therapy' while the U.S. and Iran keep dropping actual ones. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Thanks for tuning in. You're listening to Propaganda with Mick and Jacob. The Supreme Court ruled 8 to 1 that Colorado's ban on conversion therapy for minors is unconstitutional because it gets into dangerous waters of going against free speech. First of all, it's not conversion therapy, and it never was. I don't like that they use that language because it's not conversion therapy. So the court ruled that Colorado cannot ban licensed counselors from engaging in talk of therapy with their minor client when it comes to their sex or their genitals or same-sex attraction. Uh, Colorado labeled this as conversion therapy, the very act of helping a minor through confusing gender questions. So if you were 14 and you went to your counselor and you said, I feel like I'm the opposite gender, they can't sit there and tell you, no, you're the right gender. Let's talk through this. What's going on at home? Let's explore other avenues before chopping your parts off. They couldn't do that. Colorado labeled that as conversion therapy. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

But the federal Supreme Court uh struck it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

And so that's a win.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

That's absolutely a win. And I totally agree with this because Colorado's law allowed to affirm the gender transition, but ban conversations that might deter them from transitioning or, you know, going through So the only possible choice is if the kids struggling with it or if someone in their life tells them that they have it, they go to a counselor, and the only way that they can talk about it or be affirmed by it is just by the counselor saying, Oh yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You're the opposite gender, sure. Whatever. Yeah, whatever. They can't even bring up the idea that no, you might not be, oh well, here's a different approach, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

That's just automatically what the default is. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Like, how long have you felt this way? Is this really what you're feeling? Or did you see a TikTok about it and you just thought it was a cool thing because it's popular right now? You know what I mean? Like they couldn't even have that conversation or really talk about it. The only way that counselor would be fairly practicing, well, by law practicing would be sitting there saying, Yeah, you're right. Okay, let's get you into the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So the court claimed that Colorado's law controls what therapists can and can't say, which it did. And that violates the First Amendment. Totally agree with that. And this all started with a Christian talk counselor who spoke out and said the law stopped her from getting advice that matched her religious beliefs. Again, that's totally fair. So I agree with the court's ruling. I you can't just ban conversation around a topic because you disagree with it. But supporters of this decision are of course happy because it protects religious rights and free speech and helps children that need actual help and they don't just affirm whatever wild thoughts they're having at the moment. But then critics are, of course, concerned because this could allow practices that might that doctors might find harmful. Telling a boy he's not a girl? Yeah. That's harmful. How is that harmful? I think what's harmful is affirming that and letting the kid believe whatever they want, and just as the as the adult, you have to rule, you have to kind of corral a kid sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Sometimes you need a tough conversation, and that's what therapists, I feel like, never give.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

So like what happened to hard conversations? You're right. Why is it?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

We talked about therapists once before. We did people got really mad. We did, but it's true. Like in this case, shows it more than anything else. Like, you have a problem, you have a struggle, you have a concern, and you take it to a licensed therapist, and they're not even allowed to voice an alternative measure or a opposite opinion or a contradiction to what you're thinking or what another therapist would say. They're not even allowed to raise the subject, you know. It's like, why, if you're a counselor, why wouldn't you be able to kind of like prescribe your own opinions or thoughts or expertise on a matter? You know? You have to basically defend or affirm one side.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, think how dangerous that is. Colorado, at one point, these talk therapists, these counselors, could only give one answer to an issue a child would come to them with, with same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria. They could only give one answer. Be like, yep, you're right. Let's, what do you want to do? What do you want to do about it? That's dangerous. That's scary, actually. Because I I would not want my child, if they're having confusing thoughts, I would want them to help them work through it and not just say, Okay, yeah, you're right. These confusing thoughts are correct. Let's take the next crazy step. And kids don't know what they want either. They never do. I didn't know what I wanted at 14 or 8 or even 16.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

By the time you ask for a Christmas present, and then the time you get it, you might not even want the same toy. Like it's like that's how bad it is when you're a kid.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

It's like, especially boys. Like boys, their interest in topics change like every other week. It's like totally, yeah. But if you want to change your gender, that's totally okay. We should have that conversation. You can go forward with that, you know. Well, it's stupid.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Like the same 14-year-old, you could not take them to a tattoo shop or to go get a piercing or have them drive a car. You're not allowed to do that. So why can they change their entire identity, their entire gender, go through repulsive surgeries that are irreversible, that are damaging for the rest of your life?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

We're talking about extremely dangerous for you, too.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

They will suffer the consequences of these surgeries. But that's not a big decision. Yeah, weird, interesting. And these people, these counselors that are so wrapped up in the sexual identity of children need to be investigated too, by the way. That's disgusting. That's weird that you would even care. I understand if the child comes to you and has questions totally, but these people advocating that no, no, they need to be able to talk about this and talk to me about it. And I want like I want them to change their gender. I want to hear about their sexual preferences. You're creepy, you're weird for that. You're so weird. I think it's disgusting. Same energy as the as the drag queens that want to go to storybook story or library story time at and read to kids that are three about how they like other men.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

And you know, it's a weird obsession with kids. It's a weird obsession with sexuality, and people get mad at you when you say that. Um, because it's not that all gay people are predators or anything like that, but it's like a lot of predators have problems like that, you know, whether it's an identity crisis or a deviant sexual like lifestyle or choice. Because a lot of that actually stems from childhood trauma or abuse or, you know, some sort of deranged treatment that they got when they were a kid by someone else, you know. So it's you always kind of wonder why those things go hand in hand. And that's just one more reason why it's important to have like, you know, have the other side be able to voice their opinion in a topic such as, you know, transitioning minors or giving kids surgeries or pills or drugs. Like, especially when there's that big of an interest, you need the opposite side to be able to voice their opinion.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So that's always dangerous, and it'll be dangerous no matter what side of the aisle you're on, to silence the other aisle is a or sorry, to silence the other side of that aisle is dangerous. We always need conflicting viewpoints and conflicting opinions, especially when it comes to something so serious like this.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Even in a case with transitioning kids and stuff, which is obviously a moral sin and it's evil and it's disgusting, even though those things are all true, um, other people should still be allowed to argue about it. You know, they should be able to argue their point, we should be able to argue our point. That's one of the that's one of the greatest things about being an American, living in America, is you have freedom of speech, you know? And it doesn't mean you have to agree with them, doesn't mean you have to implement it into law. But I mean, you see this with the left all the time is they wanna they really do want to dictate and control what you're allowed to say and therefore what you're allowed to think. So you can't post what you want on social media, you can't talk about what you want with your friends, you can't make a joke, you can't make some whatever suggestion about this group of people or that group of people, or because it's racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever. Like, but the point of that is to control, you know, to control your thoughts, to control your words, and to control the culture. And I've for the longest time that was one of their key winning points. You've only seen it in recent years where people are finally being allowed to talk more and being allowed to be opened up more. And you see this with with podcasts, and you see this with uh Elon Musk buying X and all these things, you know. So it's important how much controlling thoughts and speech can actually do. And that's why the Democrats in the left and whatever liberals, that's why they make it such a key part of their platform.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Well, yeah, and it controls the next generation too. Like these kids won't get any feedback, actual feedback. But what if they did have what if they did have questions about it? Right. You know, what if they were actually like, I heard about this, I might be the other gender. Like, give me your honest opinion on that. As my counselor, as my therapist, what do you think about this? Is this something, is the path I should go down? Is it a safe path? Is it a good path? Like, you gotta be able to give your honest opinion and give the truth about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Right. Well, in a lot of these states too, you will, if you're a parent who does not affirm the child's gender, the parent who does affirm it will lose custody of the kid. You know, you think about that, like in California. It this is the same problem with taking your kid to account. So it's like, well, you can't even oppose what they're saying. Thankfully, now that they struck this down, you should be able to, but we'll see. We'll see what happens with the uh decision.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Good. I'm glad it was eight to one, too. Who was the one who I know who was the one Katanji Brown Jackson?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Look it up.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

It was?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I'm guessing. Katanji Brown Jackson. Well, well, well. Called it. Alright, whatever. I I really don't know that much about the Supreme Court. I'm not some like nerd, but it's like she was the most recent lady. She got um whatever initiated into office under Biden's presidency.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

So oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Um what? She's a joke. She's a joke. Her if you look at her hearing to um to be approved to be in the Supreme Court, her hearing was a joke. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Really?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

That this woman, this woman was like elected, chosen, um, approved into the office that she will now hold for the rest of her life, and she controls what she thinks the law says. So it's kind of crazy. Like, what what's constitutional, what's legal, what's I don't know, but she'll she'll decide it.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

And of course, she is the one crazy lady who was against it. Guys, I have an idea. You shouldn't even be allowed to voice the opposite opinion of transitioning kids. How's that? Is anyone else? No, no one else is with her, even the other liberals on the Supreme Court. It's five, is it five? Is it five four or six three? I think it's five-four. The uh the breakdown of the court. So it's like she has at least um two other liberals that vote with her most of the time, you know? It's not like it's eight conservatives and one liberal.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

So no, she's not the only liberal.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

No, yeah, but she might be the worst one.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So ew, that's crazy. You're disgusting for that. The lone person saying, no, we can't have conversations surrounding it. If if you really, if your motive was genuinely wanting the best for these kids, let's say these kids they really needed help, and that was your motivation that you want to get them the best possible help, would that not come then from a place of wanting conversation around the topic?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Seeing what's best for the child.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah, like let the kid ask the questions, let them weigh the options if they're you know, all knowing about who they want to be in the future.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

When you have cancer, or when you have a whatever, life, lifetime illness or disability, or even when you have a broken bone sometimes, you go and you get a second opinion and you visit a second doctor, or you get scammed somewhere else too, you know, like but the thought of them allowing kids to do that for transitioning and talking to the counselors about being gay or trans or whatever, that's not even that shouldn't even be allowed in their opinion.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

So that's it really it really makes you question what the motive is then. If you don't want the best, like you said in your example, with a cancer patient, you would want the best for them, so you do go get a second, even a third opinion because you want to weigh your options, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And everyone has a different approach to it, so you want to hear what they're about.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

So they have different methods, different ways of curing the cancer.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah. It says the decision affects Colorado, which we talked about, and then potentially more than 20 other states with similar bans. So so other states were also heading down this pipeline. Other states also have these guidelines in place. It's like it shows you it's not just Colorado, you know, it's not just California, it's not just whatever the most liberal city or state you can think of. It's more than you think. And I mean, that's why the Supreme Court's one of the most important positions of the land, because they can they can, I guess, decide a lot of rulings with what lines with the Constitution and what shouldn't. So right decision on this one.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Oh boy. The LGBTQ advocacy groups, they criticize the ruling, citing research linking conversion therapy to increased depression, suic suicide, and PTSD among minors. Converting them to that gender immediately without asking any questions is not the answer. Uh most of the times, actually, most of the cases, they end up hating themselves even more after the transition. If you genuinely asked anyone after they transitioned, they would not be, they're not genuinely happy. No, there's studies all the time. Like it might have a little euphoria afterwards, like, oh, you know, look at new body part. It doesn't last.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

No, in fact, the longer after the surgery, too, the uh the worse it gets. So, I mean, they there's all sorts of studies on the effectiveness of trans surgeries, the brief, like you're saying, the brief euphoric moment after the surgery, and then in almost all cases it just declines after there and it gets worse. And the crazy part to me is like we are we're just now getting 10 years of data. Do we have 15? Do we have 20? Like, we we don't even be we don't even begin to know the effects of what this does to kids, let alone adults, down the road, you know? Like it's kind of like the uh the vaccine, the COVID vaccine. Yeah, it's like we don't even know what was all in that, what was all happening with that, because a lot of strange things were happening, and not to get conspiratorial, but it's like it's been what five years since they first released that, and it's like who knows all the long-term effects that'll have.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So we don't even know, right? Just another example, but conversion therapy is not pushing back against it with a different opinion, with truth, with some facts and stats, you know? I hate that they call it conversion therapy. That's so stupid. That's such like a like a fear-mongering, it's twisting it. Like they're like acting like now it's a you're allowed to like hit your kid because they say, Dad, I like I'm a boy and I like other boys. You know what I mean? Like it gives the idea that you can hurt them because of it, or like send them off into the forests and be like, have fun. Live a little rugged, and then you'll come back normal.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Right. Um, update on the war in Iran. Iran.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Update on the war in Iran. Oh my gosh, I can't say it. Iran. I say Iran. I say it both ways. Update on the war in Iran. Um there was a ceasefire that just came out a couple days ago. Um, the US in Iran reached a ceasefire. Um, but as of Wednesday, which is today that we're recording this, at least, yeah. As of today, Israel is attacking Lebanon, and they're sending even more strikes down on them on the ground, and it's kind of causing some wrinkles in the ceasefire, as these things always do, because it's like, oh, when you have two countries at war, it's not like it was 400 years ago. These are countries and allies and powers and places and regions that are all affected by it, you know? And it's like we reached a ceasefire with Iran, but does that mean Israel necessarily? Does that mean they have to stop their stuff with Lebanon or their strikes on Iran? So less than 24 hours after we agreed to the ceasefire, a disagreement surfaced over whether or not the terms apply to Lebanon. So Israel is bombing Hezbollah, which is a terrorist organization in Lebanon, and Iran is saying, oh, the deal was about Lebanon too. Like they're included. Like you can't just bomb them. And the US is saying, no, it's not included. So Israel gets to attack them. They attacked more than 100 targets in Lebanon, including many buildings in Beirut. And on Wednesday, they had one of the deadliest attacks on the country during the war. Uh, a bunch of people died, a bunch of people were in the urgent. Vice President Vance said that the ceasefire focused only on Iran and did not include Lebanon. He said Lebanon was not part of the deal, and the Iranians misunderstood.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Okay. So is this the end?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Oh, it's never the end.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Never.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I don't think. So we have this like temporary ceasefire. I think it was two weeks, they said. We might we might be done with it. Um, I heard that they opened the Strait of Hormuz, but the fees are still there. So the ceasefire is supposed to last two weeks. They opened the Strait of Hormuz, so apparently all these ships are able to go through and out now without being afraid of getting blown to crap, I guess. Um I don't think this really seals the deal. I don't think the war is over. I don't think it's like, oh, this is the end of it. Whatever, whatever. What's funny to me is when we reached the ceasefire, we said, oh yeah, we hit all of our military objectives. And it's like, we did. It's like what what were the objectives then? Because I thought we were going to war because we were afraid that they were gonna have a nuclear weapon and have nuclear capabilities, and that was the whole reason we were there. Even though we already bombed them last summer and took out their nuclear program, they said, then they built it back up already. It's so dangerous, we have to go and attack them again. That's what I thought. Then we get there and it's what? It was day one, day two, day three, and they're like, yeah, this is about regime change. We need a different regime in place because that's more friendly to the US and Israel. And it's like, okay, so we killed their top guy, we killed their second guy, we kill all their guys, right? But there's just more of them in place, and it's still a lot of the same people. So it's like, is the regime different? Are they not a terrorist state anymore? Are they like, what was actually the goal? And if we're reaching a ceasefire, that kind of is like that means we're kind of coming to terms with the end of the war approaching. And it's like, I don't see that necessarily happening soon. Not without a lot more problems coming up between Israel and the US and Iran. And I I mean, like, this is the problem. We talked about it when it first happened, and we actually haven't even covered it that much. We haven't spent a ton of time on it. But when it first happened, we talked about this, and we said this is the problem with going to war in general, but especially in a region like the Middle East. How do we know that? Oh, I don't know. Like, because of the last 60 years of our policy over there, like it this stuff happens all the time, and it's very rarely, if ever, a short operation, a incursion, a few-week-long camp. It's like it never turns into that. And even if it is something short like that, we still see the effects and the problems in the stuff arise from it years down the road. And I I mean, for what? For the nuclear program, for regime change, for our ally in Israel? What's the point? And if we're reaching the ceasefire, that means all of our objectives are complete, which is what they alluded to. So, what were our original objectives going into the the war? Those were not really listed before the war, they were kind of listed during the war. It's like, okay, we're here. Now it's to stop their nuclear capabilities, now it's to change their regime. Now, well, now we gotta open the Strait of Hormuz. Well, now we need to be the ones controlling if the strait's gonna be here or there, or we gotta work with Iran on that. And it's like the objectives and the problems, they all change as the war goes on. And I don't think we're gonna see that it just fixes itself. A two-week ceasefire, it'll just end with everyone shaking hands and being happy. Iran will be like, oh yeah, that's totally fine, you guys are bombing us, and Israel will be like, oh yeah, no problem. No problem that you guys are still doing your terror proxies or whatever they're gonna claim. So it's like everyone will just be good after this, is what what we're supposed to believe.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I I don't know, but to me it's not convincing. I just to play devil's advocate. What if it's not about Iran or Israel? What if it's what if it's more about like the oil? Like we go to Venezuela, we get all this oil, and we're like what a main distributor. We have a lot of our own.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

We don't we don't really get that much through the Strait of Hormuz.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

So what if it's about less than two and a half percent of all of our oil comes through the Strait of Hormuz?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

So I don't know. What if it's more about us becoming a main distributor and having Australia, China them depend on us for that?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Maybe. I don't know if that was our plan. It doesn't seem like that. That's never been stated. I think to me, what happened to a lot of people, what happened is we got pressured into a war. Um and now we're in it. Now we don't really know what to do with it. And I I don't think our, like I was saying, I don't think our intentions before the war were really clear. So we're kind of in this weird middle ground where you can't leave because that's embarrassing, and you can't stay because that's not good. And you have midterms and you have elections and you have re-elections and all this stuff. And you don't just want to put boots on the ground because you can't do that, but you also can't just keep bombing them for no reason all the time. That doesn't achieve anything, you know. So it's like you're in a weird spot right now, the Trump administration specifically. So the objectives weren't clear, and I don't think we're getting out of this soon, is my thought. And we're definitely not getting out of it soon with everything we wanted from it. I don't know, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

I don't know. It's hard. It is very, it's just, it feels kind of weird. That's like the only way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Feels like, I don't know, like Marco Rubio said, like, you know, we were kind of forced, forced into this war. That's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

When your Secretary of State says, yeah, this other country forced our hand and now we're involved in this war, that's that's a great feeling.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I think I think this administration from Trump has been very uh geopolitical. I think I feel like it's very it's been very focused on politics outside of our country.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

And part of the president's job is, of course, that it always will be. But right now, we really need this administration to focus on home and fixing problems here in the US first.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Like they promised to do.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Like they promised they did. And if this does not help us in any way, then I don't think it's worth getting involved in.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

It's not.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

At all.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah. And that's such a that's such a normal take. That's such a like, obviously. I know, it shouldn't even have to be but it's ridiculous how, especially a lot of people on the right, are like, we need to topple this terrorist regime on the other side of the world because it's good for us. And it's like, is it? What does it do? What's the benefit? Is it worth it at all if it's taking away money and time and resources from us back home from the problems we elected Trump to solve here? We didn't elect Trump to solve problems in Iran. We had elected him in his presidency and his administration, his campaign.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Oh, I really hope he goes to Iran and kills their leader, kills all their terrorists. Make sure they don't have nuclear weapons.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

It's like, no, he was elected to protect and help and better the lives of American citizens here. And we really have yet to see that.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So yeah. Thanks for tuning in to another episode. Happy Friday. Have a great weekend, and we will see you on Tuesday. If you are listening to this, make sure you follow all of our other social media so you can see our video content. We post our long full long form content, our full episode on YouTube, and that's at Propaganda MJ. And then we also have a TikTok at Mick and Jacob and Instagram at Mick and Jacob. We post all these little clips, and it's great to get the podcast out. So give it a follow, give it a like, and we will talk to you soon.