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S2 EP10 | GENUINE BROTHERHOOD | DANIEL LANDEROS
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Antoine sits down with his best friend and brother, Daniel Landeros, to talk all things what real genuine brotherhood should look like. They talk through the journey of their relationship and what it's meant for their faith in Jesus as they live it out! If you're in a season of seeking real brotherhood or sisterhood, then check out this episode!
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No, and I I always think about like the disciples traveling together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06I have to imagine some of their story just looked like this.
SPEAKER_03Ooh.
SPEAKER_06Some of their story just looked like they were talking and people were able to listen in. Like I have to imagine after a long day of walking and they're being welcomed into a village or a city that they're just talking and everyone is gleaming in like yo, you're traveling with Jesus. Yeah. And y'all are a little mad at each other, and y'all love each other, and y'all are pushing each other. Like I have to imagine some of those moments existed. Yeah. Because if our moments existed, I can only imagine what it was in the glory of being with Jesus in that moment.
SPEAKER_02Listen, y'all, I'm really excited. I'm gonna get all the pleasantries out the way real quick. Like, hey, thank you for supporting. Thank you so much for being a part of this community. All that, like, this is Humble where we talk about the real stuff, and I'm Antoine, all that caveat, caveat, caveat. This is an amazing community. Glad you're a part of it. But here's why I'm excited because all of my guests thus far, we've had a genuine connection. I want you to know that. Like, this is not just like, you know, I looked them up and shot my shot. Like, no, no, no. There's something that connected us. And even if I did look them up and I did shoot my shot, there was something that we felt the Lord was in, which is why we chose to record together. This is no different in that sense. But what is different is the person I have today is someone that has been in my life for a very long time. Someone that we're gonna get into here in just a second, but is not just been a friend, but is really been my brother. And in the toughest moments of my life, was there and not just in the sense of like theory of like, I'll be there for you. And I'm praying for you. He was there for me, he was praying for me, but was actually available for me in my toughest moments, but also there in my some some of my most triumphant moments to celebrate with me. Our families are literally connected. So you may even hear us call each other family because we are like you're gonna see this is really like my twin brother when you see him here in just a second. Because honestly, when you hear from him, you're gonna probably hear a little bit of me in him and vice versa, because we give context to each other. I'm taking my time on this intro because I want you guys to know how important this episode is gonna be for me. I may even get a little bit emotional because this is something I've been praying for for a long time. And he's in town. So we, I was like, you gotta get on the pod. So without further ado, I want to introduce to the humble community my very best friend and brother, Daniel Landeros, everybody. Bro, what is up? You over here.
SPEAKER_06I'm over here like trying not to be like, that's right. That's right, that's right. Like I'm being quiet, I'm probably.
SPEAKER_02I know I've seen you over there be like, yeah. I was like, nah.
SPEAKER_06Oh, man, bro, what's up, man? Living life. Come on. Excited to be here? Yes, honored to be here. Thank you for giving this space and inviting me into something that you're doing incredibly special. The leadership, the heart behind it. Like as I see it growing on socials and I see your clips and I see everything going on, I'm like, life change, life change, life change. And I'm I'm excited to be here, man.
SPEAKER_02Wow. I'm excited that you're here too, man. And thank you for, you know, you're you're kind of on vacation right now, and like we're in vacation mode and you're like, yeah, I'll jump on and do this. So, man, I really appreciate you. And like I said in the intro, man, you you know, we've we've meant so much to each other. And I think it's important that people know like we're not like social media homies. We're not like like we've been we've been doing this thing before social media really popped off. Right. Like, right? So this is not that. This is a genuine brotherhood that you and I have. Like, we've like, and here's here's the thing too, like I think is important to note is like we've been mad at each other. Yeah, we've been frustrated with one another, we've prayed with one another. Like, so it's not just like we're only there when we're happy with one another. Like we've we've battled it out, we've had tough conversations, and our friendship has been battle tested. Yeah. And you know, it stood the the the test of time. So, man, I'm I'm so excited you're in my life. I'm so like I'm receptive to your counsel, your wisdom in my life. Um, like I know that you genuinely pray for me. You don't just text me and say you're praying for me. You genuinely did you. I got you, bro.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And our families are too.
SPEAKER_06The the once a month. I got you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, bro, I I think I know. And I and I receive that. Like, I know you are praying for me for real, for real. And vice versa, man. I'm praying for you and all that guy's doing in your life. But give us a little context to you. Like, and I'm probably gonna have to shut my brain off for a second, act like I don't know anything about you. Um, because I'm pretty like I know everything you're about to say, but give us some context to to who you are. Who is Daniel? Where are you from? What was like, you know, your home life like, your walk with Jesus, wherever you want to take us.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Um, I mean, for me, like honestly, by the grace of God, I am the statistic that didn't come to be, you know, like a lot of dudes didn't grow up with a dad at home, you know, single mom worked really hard, tough childhood, you know, like unfortunately a lot of people experience. Um, hit some rough spots, which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit, you know, but it's um in those moments finding God's grace, like early, is why I get to be sitting here. Cause I honestly, truly a thousand billion percent, if I had not found Jesus in high school, I would not be sitting here. Like I might not even be on this earth, you know. Like, wow, childhood is heavy, and I think there are just certain certain things that we can get through, sure, but there are other things that like God is there for a reason. Like we are created with purpose. Part of that, I fully believe, is just finding that relationship which allows us to be here. Allows allows us to be sitting here side by side. Yep. Because I mean, we've we've both seen some stuff, and we are not the statistic by the grace of God.
SPEAKER_01By the grace of God, by the grace of the good Lord. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_06But yeah, I mean, you know, saw a lot growing up from substance use, abuse, like raising my little brothers for a little bit, you know, like really growing up way too fast. Um, and then not being able to process through that, like not understanding the weight of like, I'm 14, but I'm an adult, you know, like not really understanding that until I got into my early 20s, in which case some of the proverbial mess hit all of the fans, you know, and having to work through that later in life has been so interesting. And it's been so it also a blessing, you know, which is so weird to say when you talk about like, oh, your childhood was messy. Yes. And God stepped in and did something that only God could do. Like the miracles that I think we've seen in each other's lives are some of those things that go like almost uncelebrated, you know, in a way where it's like we like to celebrate, like, oh, I was healed, fantastic. I found Jesus. Yeah. Like I was baptized. Like those miracles are also worth celebrating a lot too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think that's I think it's great that you you said that. Like, you know, can God do it instantaneously? Absolutely He can. Yep. Oftentimes, though, if we walked into something, whether it was our fault or not, if we walked into something, chances are we're gonna have to walk out of it. And that takes months or a lot of times years to do. So man, how how important, you know, yes, you I I love the fact that you're like, I couldn't do it without Jesus. But even in the moments where, like, yeah, you had to grow up way too fast, uh, in moments where there was some dark, like truly dark moments that are hard to talk through that you've had to work through in therapy and things like that. But how how important was it for you to be like, I literally have nothing but Jesus right now to cling to?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I mean, you're not gonna get me. I will not cry. I will not cry today, people. No. Um I think it is it's one of those things that you like don't realize you take it for granted until the moment's past. And I think we are so incredibly lucky to have a God that loves us so much that He will meet you in that moment. Yeah. And we're not forsaken in that moment. And I think it's really easy to get that mindset. And I've definitely had moments where I'm like, God, where are you? Like, I thought I thought this mess was supposed to be over. I'm like trying, I'm going to church, I'm I'm reading the Bible, I'm studying, like, where are you? And there's that part of like humanity that is like, God, I still need you. Yeah. And like clinging to that last bit of hope is really what got me through some like really tough times, like some really tough moments. And in that, like our relationship ties to that story so well. Yes. Because there are so many times where like you have been in answered prayer, and you probably don't even know. But like the random text on a Saturday morning of like, hey, praying for you, love you guys, what are you doing? You you know, want to hang out later. Like those little answered prayers, I think, get people through so many moments. And it's again, you take it for granted until it's gone, you know. Like, yeah, we used to be in the same city, saw each other three, four, five times a week, you know, and now that we have some distance and some space, it's like, oh, but you're still there. Yeah, like I know, hey, it's two o'clock in the morning, I know you're asleep, but I need to talk. Like, yeah, I know that you'll pick up. Yes, and I think we're incredibly blessed. And this is a God-ordained relationship that we can do that. Yeah, because I mean, look throughout multiple Bible stories, there's great relationships, and I think it's worth fighting for, but it is a fight. I don't think it came easy for us. Like we clicked and connected, but fighting for the level and depth of relationship, yes, I think is such just a topic a lot of people don't talk about. Uh-huh. Where they're just like, no, it's my brother. Can you all coach each other? That can you say he messed up? Do you even know? Like, do you know someone well enough in your life to say, hey, you're going through something we need to talk?
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06Like, that's hard. That's hard to do.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Uh-huh. The iron sharpening iron really being evident. Because that clanking that happens as we sharpen each other that sometimes is painful.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah. Like, oftentimes it's painful. I mean, sometimes the first like done. We ain't talking anymore. Yeah. Don't call me for a buck.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Yeah. No, it's it's real, man. And I, yes, and to your point, we've been there for each other in those real moments. Right. And I think those moments even strengthen our relationship even more of like, okay, there is a there's a trust that's been built. Uh, there's a trust that again, you won't just say you'll be there for me, but you'll actually be there for me, and vice versa. And like, we this sounds silly to say, but we don't just love each other, we like each other. Right. Like we like being around each other. Like, I was so giddy to be on this podcast because I'm like, yeah, my bros here. You know, like, so it's not just like, yeah, I love him as my brother. It's like, no, I like being around you. Our families are connected to like we like each other's company. Um, you know, we're a family for real in that sense. We don't just tolerate each other, like to be honest, some of our, you know, uh real blood-related family. You know, this is humble where we talk about the real stuff. And there's some blood-related family that I do tolerate, unfortunately. But to say that I have family that I don't just put up with, tolerate, or just say I love them, I like them. So you you are definitely that. Um, okay, real quick, just for everybody that's listening and watching. So uh you keep you said we and I've said we. Give context to we. So you're married? Yep. Married. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06Three beautiful babies. Come on now. Um, met in high school. Um, so for the people, uh, Lindsay, my wife, um, Jasmine, your wife, have been friends for 15 years, 16 years. And much like us, I love that they are each other's people. Yes. And I think that that is also something that like is worth recognition because you know, there are some relationships where like you're fighting, you're fighting, you're fighting, and something is off. For some people, that might be our wives don't get along, or our husbands don't get along, our kids don't get along, you know. Yeah. Where it's like, no, you're my person, but you can only be my person when my spouse isn't here, or you know, and we have been blessed that that's just not our case. Like, yeah, we are we all get to be each other's people. Our kids love each other, our wives love each other. Like it's something that is just incredibly ordained. Oh, yeah. Um, and I think over the years we've been able to see that. You know, we've been able to see those moments of like when you just need your people. Yes, like there's something healing and very special about just being with your people. Yeah. Like finding your people is a blessing in itself. Yes. Like we were fortunate to find our people so early. Yeah. And, you know, maybe maybe that was God's foreshadowing of like, hey, I know this was rough. It's gonna be blessed from now on. Like, here's your part of the promised land while you're on earth is here's your people. That's good, bro. You know, I I think one of my favorite scriptures is when Jesus tells us that we get to live life and live life abundantly. Yep. Like for us and my family, like y'all are part of our abundantly. Like y'all are our people. And I think that's it's incredibly special.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. Likewise, man, because like I we have the type of relationship and friendship where we could do nothing together and be fine and like maybe just be playing on our phones, watching a show. Or like yesterday we went to the zoo with all with all the kids, all 47 of them. I'm just kidding. But you know, but we were yeah, but we could do either or and ooh, ooh, ooh, something you just said that I think is important to know. Now, for the record, I'm not saying that if you have friendships that you can't talk about certain topics, that that's bad. Certain friendships and certain relationships, you you do have to know, okay, in this specific topic and area, we can't go there because it might compromise the relationship. Understood. What I want to say to that though is I don't feel like we have that. I don't feel like there's a topic that even if we disagree, that it's not gonna dismantle our brotherhood. And I think that for me, like, like even kind of getting into just what we mean to each other, like I feel like that to me means more than pretty much just about anything else. The fact that there is no conversation off the table, there's no topic off the table where we won't at least give room for each other's perspectives. Right. And then be like, okay, I hear you, and I don't necessarily agree because blah, blah, blah, blah. But we give room for each other to go there. Yeah. That to me, I think, is is a missing piece in a lot of friendships, sisterhoods, brotherhoods, because again, humble, where we talk about the real stuff, I need a space to talk about my real stuff. Right. And if I don't have that, I'm not gonna get the healing that God wants me to have access to. Uh, you know, or at best, I walk around like everything's fine when everything's not. Well, and you can only compartmentalize so much. Exactly.
SPEAKER_06Like we can only shove so much to the side before it just starts bleeding out. I mean, and I think for a lot of people, it's almost easier to do that. Especially, you know, depending on how you grew up. Like if you grew up in a household where talking about emotions and feelings and what you're thinking and what you're believing is not accepted, like I can only imagine trying to do that in 20s, 30s, 40s. Like, it's not a magical switch that you're like, okay, I can talk to anybody about everything. Um, and that's why I go back to I think we're so fortunate and blessed to have found each other early on.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_06Because imagine trying to do this now without all the history. Like, I don't think I would be able to, honestly. Yeah. Like, I don't know that I would be able to recreate the relationship that we have had over the years if I were to try to start that today. Uh-huh. Like, I just don't even know how I would go about that, which is insane.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like I even think you said it off camera, but like we've seen multiple versions of one another. Yeah. Like a lot of different versions. Like, you knew me before I was a pastor. You knew me like on my road road to becoming a pastor, like all the things. You've seen all the iterations, like, you know, before kids, right, during kids, you know, like just all the things we've been there for all these moments in in our lives. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, and I think we've seen each other fully healed, fully broken on the journey. Like we have seen not just the different versions, but also the different journeys that God has walked us to. Yes. And like some things we have gone through together, but there have also been moments where it's like, that's a God journey for you. I love you. I'm praying for you, but you need to do this with the Lord.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_06Like my part is sitting here so that we can celebrate at the end and we can celebrate at the end of the season. And so many people don't have that. And I think that that is part of the context of our family's lives together. Is like we have not only seen that, but we've been a part of it and we live through it. So when I sit here and I tell someone like, you need to find a best friend in the Lord, like we can say that genuinely because we know what it has done for our life. Yeah. We know what it has done for us as individuals, but also I feel like we make each other better husbands, better sons, better fathers, like better friends. Like there's so much that God does in those relationships that again, you take it for granted unless you like unless you don't know. Yep. You know? Because I'll see friendships and I'll see people talking, I'll see people interacting, and I'm like, go deeper. Like, can y'all just talk about it already? Yes. Like y'all are mad at each other. You're doing this weird little fake Sunday beef. Like, can y'all just talk about it? You know? Like, let's just get there. Yep. Yep. But not everyone's ready, and it's okay. I'll be patient. I'll just sit down. But you're ready. You're always ready.
SPEAKER_02Everyone sit down. We're talking. Yep, we're gonna talk right now. Yeah, yeah. No, that that's real. Man, I think too, we talked about this a little bit, but it's like this whole thing. When I think about healthy brotherhoods, healthy biblical brotherhoods, I think about David and Jonathan. Yep. And how that always gets twisted and like blown out of context. And it's like, you know, David was like, I gotta go see Jonathan. Like, went to Jonat when he was like, Hey, your dad's trying to kill me. Like, I need you right now. And that often gets twisted on like this, this very like perverted thing that it's not. But that was a beautiful friendship that they had as brothers, as men.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02That I think and what I would have created space for in this platform um in this community is that we can have as men healthy relationships like what you and I have, and it not be marketed in a way that is ungodly. Right. Because we are men, we are husbands, we are fathers, and we get giddy when we see each other. Like we, we, we laugh and we giggle and like we have inside jokes. The billions. Yeah, the billions, right? And and and there's a safety for us to be that version of ourselves in full safety without having to worry about the well, if I say this, is he gonna think I'm I'm I'm girly or feminine? Or if I if I say and it's like, no, no, no, no. Like we're just being two dudes that just have context to each other, right that want to create space for each other, that genuinely love each other, and that does not have to be perverted in any way that's outside of what God's called it to be. And I think that's important because, like, you know, just to I just want to speak to somebody right now, like you need this. Like, you need a friendship, a relationship, you know, like if you're a man, you need this. If you're a woman, you need this. Like you need relationships where you could be your full, authentic, vulnerable self, where you can be honest, open, transparent. You you guys have heard me talk about this before. And I don't want this to be a theory. What I'm trying to help you see is I have this in a version of a person. And this has meant so much for so long that you alluded to this earlier, but I don't even know if I could have walked through some of the toughest moments of my life without you. Right. Because, you know, in the in the ecosystem of Antoine, of people that I call to be like, hey man, I don't need to be pastor right now. I just need to be son and I need to be brother. Can you hold space for me? You are always one of those people.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh, in any transition I've done, in any opportunity, quote unquote, that I've uh done or not done, I've processed with you and I've allowed you to be like, hey, bro, that ain't it.
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, and we've had some tough conversations.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like we have had some seriously like, you're being dumb. Yeah. Oh yeah. Are you sure? Oh yeah. Or why not? You're being dumb. Yeah, yeah. It's like what are you waiting for? Right. You know, and I I always think about like the disciples traveling together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06I have to imagine some of their story just looked like this. Ooh. Some of their story just looked like they were talking and people were able to listen in. Like, I have to imagine after a long day of walking and they're being welcomed into a village or a city that they're just talking and everyone is gleaming in, like, yo, you're traveling with Jesus. Yeah. And y'all are a little mad at each other, and y'all love each other, and y'all are pushing each other. Like, I have to imagine some of those moments existed. Yeah. Because if our moments existed, I can only imagine what it was in the glory of being with Jesus in that moment. Yeah. Like I can only imagine some of those conversations of like, hey, when you're teaching this and you said this, are you sure that's what you meant to say? Because when Jesus said it, he said it like, you know, like I have to imagine they had some of those because they were all just trying to be better. Like they were all trying to follow the perfect example. Yeah. And I think in our relationship, we have definitely had those moments of like, sir. Are you sure that's what you wanted to say? Are you sure that's what you meant to say? Are you sure you didn't mean to say it like this? Yep. Um, and those have been like, I remember some of those because they are so like I think important to both of our story of like I remember calling you, crying, like, hey, today is rough. Like I remember those moments.
SPEAKER_02Yep. And we didn't blast it on social media and say, look at me helping my friend right now. Right. Because I'm such a good Christian. And it's like, no, I was just there. I prayed for him today. Yeah, I pray. Prayed for my friend today. I'm a good, you know, like it's okay. So back with this whole disciples thing, because I think this is a really good thing that you're saying because I'm reading this book right now called The Bible Simplified. And um I've read it before, but I'm reading it again because it's just a good overview of the Bible. Um, and I'll I'll drop to credentials uh later for you guys if you guys are interested in reading it. But anyway, so he talks about on just one of the as he's breaking scripture now, he talks about how what's interesting about the Bible is that when we read the Bible, you can turn a page and that could be thousands of years. And and with that, right, we so we're just going, oh, we're now post whatever, post Exodus, or post you know, prophets, or now we're, you know, whatever it is. And but it's like, but things happened in that time, even though there wasn't specific details to that, there were some things that happened. So I think about, hey man, we just, you know, the disciples, man, I just we just uh uh fed um what's really would have been like 25,000 people, yeah, you know, the uh five loaves and two fish, the feeding of the 5,000, but we we know again, it's probably more like 25,000 people with women and children. Yep. But it's like to process that moment afterwards. Yeah. Like, bro, how how crazy was that, number one, but also how cool was that? Yeah. And they were just regular people. The other one that's funny to me is is when John records himself beating Peter in the race, and he's talking about himself, but but it's moments like that. Like they raced. Right. That was that has not there was no like theological framework for that, other than just he wanted to put that in there. Yeah, there's some healthy competition.
SPEAKER_06Yes, but I mean, again, I think that points to they're trying to make each other better. Yeah. I mean, let's take it for what it is. Hey, bro, I'm about to beat you as race. Yeah, I'm gonna find out first.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna find out, yeah. But yeah, but so I think those looking at the bro, you just sliced his ear off.
SPEAKER_06What were you thinking? Facts. Um can we talk about are you good?
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And the fact that, yeah, yeah, and and it's like our our Messiah, our Lord, had to heal this guy. But why did you do that? You know, like process the after action report, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Oh, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_02We've had those two. Oh, we have. Oh, why'd you do that? Uh-huh. Hey, man, help me understand why you did that. Why'd you say that? Yeah. Or, okay, humble. Well, we talk about the real stuff. I'm gonna keep saying it because my boy is here, y'all. We've done this for each other even in our marriages, right? Of like, hey, so we hung out yesterday. You guys were a little weird. You good?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, even moments like that, and just creating the space to be like, hey, we're actually not good, or we got a little bit of a tiff, and we, you know, and we're okay now, but just providing the space to be like, but but we have to talk about that. Right. We have to process that, not keep it in, or to put on this facade like everything is awesome all of the time. It's like, no, everything's not awesome all the time. And that's okay.
SPEAKER_06We would love for it to be, right? But life is messy and people are messy, and we're not perfect.
unknownFacts.
SPEAKER_06And we make it messy. You know, but I think we've always done that in such a way where grace is the default. Where it's like, I hear what you're saying, and yeah, you're right. Like we were fighting the whole time over because I tripped over the shoes again. You know, yeah, you're right. Which that actually was one of the reasons. I remember talking about that. Wait, what? I remember talking about that where I had I've been tripping over shoes and I just like flew off the handle.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I remember this now. Yes, yes. Silly little things.
SPEAKER_06That was so long ago. But yeah. Silly little things. Uh-huh. But again, a totally different version of me. Yeah. Because I mean, in the grand scheme of things, oh no, I tripped on a pair of shoes. Yep. And that's enough to derail my whole day.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Talk about it.
SPEAKER_06Totally different version of myself. Like we have seen each other be so immature at moments where it's like no one else except for my wife has any inkling of some of those moments. No one like would know. Like, not even my kids know. Different version of me.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And it's insane. And I think you're a big part of that too, because we pushed each other so hard for so long of like, we got to beat the statistics. We got to be better than that. Like, there has to be an example. Like, we have boys. Our boys can't be like the immature men that we see walking around. Like, and it's up to us to do that. Yes, all of them praying that they will have their own journey with the Lord, but it starts with us. Like we are the original disciples of our family. And if we trust someone else to do that for us, like, I don't know what you're actually teaching them on a Sunday.
SPEAKER_02Sheesh. Yeah, bro. Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06Like, if you don't see me in my word, how do I expect you to ever pick up a Bible?
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06If you don't see us having tough conversations, maybe watered down for the age. Sure. How do I expect you to ever find that relationship? If you don't see it, how do you find it? Uh-huh. And like I think we were very blessed and we got to find it. Uh-huh. And it's so hard. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think that's even in marriage, like, that's something that Jazz and I have we we decided this years ago, but like there's gonna be we we call it levels, but there there are like levels of like, you know, arguments or or miscommunications or whatever that will have that will actually allow the kids to to watch. Yeah. So that way they could see how do we navigate it? How do I take ownership of my tone? How does she take ownership of whatever, whatever? You know, like, but it's like, okay, they're watching us do that in real time. So that way we're not just speaking at a theory, but we're actually, hey, you know what? I my tone was kind of crazy. You know what? I apologize. And I love you. Here's what I was feeling in that moment. Here's what it sounded like you said, is that true? No, it's not what it's okay, cool, cool, cool. And it's like, and then of course, some of the the bigger ones, it's like, okay, we gotta have those because the you know, the the context they don't need right now, yeah. But or ever, just because that's a that's a private moment in our marriage. But but to to your point, there have been moments even in our in our friendship where we've been able to do that for each other. Um, and likewise, man, like I've as you said, I've been there for you and that, you've been there for me and that. We're like, hey, bro, you're tripping right now. You're you're tripping. Yeah. Um, and because my wife is your sister, right? You can look at her and be like, oh like but that's but here's here's what I'm here's what I'm getting at in all that. That level of vulnerability, though, people run from that. Yeah. When I believe it's hard. It is hard. Yeah. But I believe people need to run to that. Yep. And I believe if people ran to that, we would have less, less relationships that feel fake and fickle. Right. But but more yes, yeah, it's superficial, but but then in this relationship that that is real, where I could be my real self, I can actually find healing through this relationship that God ordained.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I think it's always it's always interesting. Um, you know, when I when I try to look and observe like individuals who maybe do not know Jesus at all, uh-huh. And kind of observe those relationships. And it's like you can almost correlate how far your journey with Jesus is with how deep and meaningful some of your relationships are. Yep. And I think God created us like that on purpose. Like, I can't imagine a world where I don't try to know Jesus more every day and have a relationship like this. Yeah. Because if I can't be this open with the Savior, the God of the world, the God of the universe that loves me so deeply that he knows all of my mess and still loves me, how do I do that with another person? Like if I can't do that with God, how would I ever do that with another person? Yeah. And I think it also, because we have that, it allows us to be that with our wives. Like, how many people do we, you know, encounter in and out of church who it's like, do you really know your spouse? Like, do you really, really know your spouse? Or was it comfortable and you got married and now there's kids and now it's a rhythm? You know, how many can we say, like, do you know her favorite color, her favorite flower? You know, you know, do you know all of the little details? And it's always interesting. I I feel like I have been able to see it where it's like, man, you know the Lord and your relationships come so easy. You make friends so easy. You're genuine very fast. And I think it goes to that healing that you're talking about is like you can have the perfect childhood growing up. Something still hurts. Yep. Like, good parents, they had a good job, we had a nice house. They were always working. Uh-huh. I don't know what real love feels like. Uh-huh. Like, we went to church on a Sunday, but because they were working so much, we left right after. I never got to make friends. Like, there's still pain and hurt in that that it's sometimes hard to vocalize because the world is so ugly and we're so far in sin sometimes. That my superficial I didn't have friends is someone's else, like, I was living on the streets.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_06You know, and I think that makes it so difficult for people to to navigate having really deep, meaningful relationships because you never know. Like you never know until you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like you would never know what someone's heart is until you have talked about it. Oh, yes. But we're afraid to do that. Because I don't want to offend you. Yeah. And I don't want to hurt you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06It's like, I mean, if you look at the Bible, there's some moments where facts. Some of the disciples were like, no, you're offended and you're gonna like it because you need the Lord. Uh-huh. And I think we get so afraid to do that. Uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, bro. No, I think I think that's yes. I think about too, like, um, when it comes to like even even uh tiffs or disagreements or you know, things being miscommunicated or not said the best, or something that causes discord or tension, right? Like something I think about, like my brain goes to is um, you know, Paul and Barnabas. So, you know, the book of Acts, uh Paul and John Mark, who we now know Mark John Mark is the writer of Mark, the gospel mark. So Paul and John Mark, like Paul was like so upset that it caused so much discord that they had to still do the gospel and present the gospel, but they had to go their separate ways. So Paul took Silas, and John Mark and Barnabas went their own way. But what and then later they reconcile, right? But what I I we often talk about that like a like a like a theologically cool concept, which it is. But I think about in the context of relationship that number one, two things. Number one, that didn't stop the gospel from being pushed forward, right? The mission of the gospel, number one, because of a uh an issue in the relationship. And number two, Paul was brave enough to be like, hey, bro, but right now though, right? We can't talk. We need a little break. We can't even travel together. Yes. But I think that level of relationship again is not so for some people, the fear in that is what if it doesn't go well? Right. What if, you know, I get hurt again. But as you've been hurt by people, the only way you can be healed is by people. Yeah. So it is a risk. It is going to be uh put you putting your heart out there again. It is going to be, and and even in the healthiest relationships, again, you and I, like, we've had our moments where we're like, dang, like, I don't really like him right now. Like, and and still, though, that's you're my brother. Right. So I think too, man, like, I'm gonna jump, I'm gonna jump into this really quick, this aspect of us growing up without our fathers. Yeah. Because um, if you guys remember um season one, the episode I did about fatherhood, there's a moment where I say, Hey, my friend of mine, um, we were we were talking, and he told me, Hey, are you grieving the relationship with your dad that you could have had or the one that you didn't have at all? And that was Daniel, like who I'm talking to right now. Like you were that person that that was there because we used to all live in the same city, like you alluded to. So I say all that to say, like the fatherhood thing for us was also a thing that I think uh, in a lot of unhealthy ways, catapulted us into a spiral of uh unhealthy mindsets, uh, perspectives, uh even leading to some bad decisions, but also I think gave us this drive to want to be better. Yeah. So I'd love for you just to kind of talk about that. Like as a as a person who who also grew up without their dad, and we've talked a lot about that, but just for our listeners, man, like how important has it been for you to walk in the healing that you're talking about now?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean, we went through the fire, both of us as kids, like let's just be honest. Um, and something else that we have really in common with that is both of our mom's super strong-willed women who at the end of the day, it was gonna get done, no matter what it was. If it was, you know, keeping a roof over our head, it was gonna get done. If it was working long hours, it was gonna get done. And without the context of what a father does for the house, I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Like for a long time, I think I had the mindset of it's gonna get done. And that reverted to, it's my way or there is no way because it's going to get done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And, you know, me and Lindsay met in high school, we were we've been together for so long. Like the early couple of years of our marriage is where I think we felt that hit the most direct because her mom, also strong-willed woman, who was like, we're gonna get it done. And that really came to a head. And it came to the like, well, we need to do this. No, we're going to do this. And it's like, pause. No, it's not, you know. And I think in those moments, like without healing coming from the childhood part, I would have never matured through that. I would have never matured through even being able to see, oh, God created you different as my wife. This is what you're feeling. Yep. It's not what I said, but this is what you're feeling. Yep. But it took years and it took learning each other. And it's not something that just happened overnight, like, Lord, I want to be, I want to be healed. Can it? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Do I believe that? Yeah. Because I've seen it. Where some people, like the next day they seem to not be depressed, and you're like, oh, are you okay? And they're like, no, the Lord did this. And it's like, oh, okay, great. For me, it wasn't. And I'm almost, almost like thankful that it wasn't. Because talked about that, Daniel.
SPEAKER_02Why are you thankful for the suffering?
SPEAKER_06Um I think without in my life, without the suffering, I wouldn't have had the journey. And um, I mean, I think because of my personality, because of how I was raised, had I not found Jesus, I would have never wanted. I don't think I would have ever I I think I would have been one of those people who just coasted through life who God's there maybe. You know? But again, by the grace of God, um, in high school, when the Lord was telling my mom y'all need to go to church, I think that was almost more for me than it was for her. Because I think my mom has always been a strong believer. I was not. And I can say that. Like, sure. I I wasn't. You know, I had not grown up in church, I didn't grow up in church. And I remember it was the my senior year, I guess. We were doing the like, hey, you're all about to go off to college, let's do the blessing thing. And I remember leaving the building crying because I was like, is anyone gonna want me like I feel like God wants me right now? And I remember that morning, and it was like the first time where I think I like that's God. And I had never felt it before, I had never experienced before. And I just remember being so overwhelmed with emotion, and it wasn't because I was moving, I was excited for school, I was excited to move, I was, you know, excited to go to a big city. It wasn't that, but that was one of the first times where I'm like, whoa, like God's love is overwhelming, yeah. And I think a lot of people don't talk about that, and or it's scary, or it's the like, yeah, I felt something and I cried, so I'm not gonna do that again. Like, I'm not gonna go looking for that. But for me as a young man, I I I had never experienced that. I had never felt that like it doesn't matter what you do, I will always love you. Yeah, and I think walking through the healing, I'm like, man, if my boys feel that even one day, I have succeeded.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending or the guitar Reckless Love of God.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, oh man, yeah, no, I and so walking through the healing of my childhood has allowed me to even like start to conceptualize how God sees me as a son. Because without it, I mean, to be honest, I was mad at the thought of father. And so I I do remember the first couple of times that I was going to church and I would hear, you know, um pastors praying and everything, they're like, God father, I remember being angry at that sentence because I was like, I don't have a dad. Like, I can't relate to what you're praying because I don't have a dad. I didn't grow up with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06But like feeling that presence throughout the healing, I was like, dang, I have always had this. Like I have had it. I just didn't know. Yeah. And it's so easy for us as people to like think in the earthly and think on the like, no, this is what I have. Like the life you gave me was without a father. So how dare you try to be the father now? You know, like I remember having those thoughts as just a very angry young dude, and then getting married, and the thought of kids was so terrifying because I was like, I will not know how to do that. There is no way I can ever be a dad. Like, I remember having those fears of like, there was no one to teach me.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_06Like, I can read all the books in the world, but I don't have the hands-on experience. Like, I'm not gonna be good at that. And I remember being so afraid and overwhelmingly happy when we found out that we were pregnant. Like, I remember those, like, and yeah, it wasn't or it was and I remember praying on the way to the hospital every time we had the boys, is like, man, let us be good parents. Like, let us steward your children well.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yes, that's real too, because like ultimately they are his kids, right? They're his children. We get an opportunity to be what we should be. And you know, similar to you, it's like, I didn't have this example growing up, but you learn later, it's like we should be the earthly representations of what our heavenly father is. Um, most of us, dare I say, don't get that framework. Yeah. Um, either we have a, from at least in my experience of working with people, counseling people, things like that, but it's like you a lot of people have a physically present but emotionally absent father. Yep. Or he's just totally not there. Yeah. At all. Yep. Um, and either either one is bad in its own right, but but my point is to think of God as our father. The song that's coming to my mind. I don't know, it's because you're here, bro. I'm like the worship leader in me is coming out right now. But I have a father by Chandler Moore. Yo, that is my song, bro. Like, but it's just this idea that like I have a father. Right. And how, you know, I I I wouldn't say I'm completely healed, but I'm a lot more healed. Oh, yeah. That I could talk about my dad, even do that episode that I did about my dad. Like I could do that in a way that, hey, this is a part of my testimony. Like, this is not when it's healthy now.
SPEAKER_06Yes. And it's not coming from that place of broken and hurting because you've allowed God to step in into that role. Yes. And I think so many of us as men, we miss that step where we get to the I forgive you for not being there, or I forgive you for being trash. And we miss the step of you have to let God step into that for you. Let's go, bro. Like you have to allow that because I truly believe that's where the healing happens. It's like, I don't know, it's like, here's this gift of healing. I'm here, I'm ready for you. You want me to hold it? And we just let God hold it for years and years and years. And then you hear about the older men who were like, Oh, I let God into my life. And I'm like, dude, you had that for 50 years. Like you could have done that so long ago. Yeah, yeah. And I think we pushed each other so much that we allowed that and we called it out of each other. Yep. Often, where it's like, I think that's your hurt talking. Are you sure? Yep. It's like, I know how you I know how you talk to Jazz.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_06Really? Because that was weird. Yep. Oh, yeah. I know how you talk to Lindsay. Are you sure? Yeah. Because I know I heard that before.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And I think we pushed each other. But then when we had kids, I know how much you love your kids. Are you sure?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And like we've had some of those where we learn on the fly a lot, like we both did. But then when we we all were raising the kids together, it's like, whoa. We get to see little glimpses of what God showed each of us individually, and all of our kids get the benefit. Yeah. Like I'm so thankful for that that I know my boys will always have two other adults that they fully trust and love in this world. Because so many don't, like, I don't. Yeah. Like growing up, I couldn't tell you a single adult that I trusted outside of my mom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And I know that like even that's a blessing to some because some don't even have that one parent. Yeah. You know. But I am so thankful that my boys, they will have someone else in this world that will call them to be greater, to call out the greatness in them, to see what God has placed, to prophesy over them. Because how How many kids don't get that? How many men don't get that?
SPEAKER_01Facts.
SPEAKER_06And how many men don't have that relationship with someone other? Because I know there's gonna be a day we will be beefing with our boys, and only we will be able, hey, your dad loves you. Yeah, yeah, you know he loves you. Yep. Stop doing this. Uh-huh. Stop being silly. Go apologize. Go talk to your dad.
SPEAKER_04Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_06And I think we got to do that in our healing of like, hey, have you prayed about that? Yes. Like, have you processed that? Like, here's a scripture I think might help. You know, like we got to do that for each other. I'm thankful that our boys will have that. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Not, did you you made up your mind already and you try to get God to co-sign it? It's like, no, have you really sought the Lord in that? Yep. And for us to push each other in that, create room and space for that. But man, I also just think about like, as you're talking about us being there for our our kids in that, is like, man, you, you are, you're such a great dad, but you're also an amazing uncle. And I know it may sound silly to say, but like, I know that my kids, like, they love their Uncle Daniel. Yeah. They love you. They love their Aunt Lindsay. Like, you guys are like, like you said, if there's if there's two other people in this world that they can trust wholeheartedly, um I know it's you guys because you're gonna be there. You have been there and are there uh in moments to uh be an extension of me and jazz, but not just like, hey, go listen to them, but like in a way where they have their own relationship with both of you separately and individually. So, case of point, just got a fun example yesterday, because I know you, and I we didn't talk about this uh off camera. I wanted to save it for this moment on purpose, but man, it meant so much to me that yesterday we were at the zoo, y'all. You know what I'm saying? We're at the zoo, we're doing normal, normal stuff as parents. We're at the zoo, but uh, and it was wild, by the way. Just wow, I'm not even gonna mention what zoo it was, but it was fun. We had a good time. It was a good time. It was fun. It was a great time. Yeah, we had a great time, yeah. And it was wild. Um, but no, you uh ended up getting a silly one of those uh yeah pee peelable tattoos with with my daughter Ellie. And man, that meant so much because you saw her in that moment. And not that I didn't see her, but you saw her in a way that made it special for Uncle Daniel to see her. And I just really appreciate you for that because our kids need that extension of their parents in a village that's safe. And we often talk about this idea of having a village in the sense of church. Let's talk about the village. And I'm not what I'm not knocking that, I'm not saying that the ecosystem of church is bad as a village, but it doesn't just need to be your Sunday village, right? It needs to be your your everyday, regular rhythm village. And you guys have been that for us in a way where even moments like that. Like I saw you yesterday have a moment with each of my kids intentionally, where it was like they all had a moment with Uncle Daniel. And I think that's so special that our kids get that from you, but also you've been intentional intentional to be like a couple things. Number one, I I love you for you. Right. I don't just love your dad and your mom, I love you. Um, and I'm here for you. Yeah. And like you said, if stuff hits the fan with any of our kids, which it has, and I'm sure it will, yeah. That when I think about you've heard me use this um um example before, but I'll have to think of the my kids' lives, each of their lives, as like this table. And I want to see at the table of their lives. I can rest knowing that you guys will be there too at the table of their lives. Right. And we can look across the table and be like, what do we think about that decision? We don't like it? Okay, I'm gonna call them and then they're gonna call you and then we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, but it's you know, I say that, you know, like in a silly way, but but truthfully though, like we have helped build. Actually, I don't even know if I've thought about it like this before. We have helped cultivate and build the table that we want to see in our kids, yeah, in their lives, yeah, by allowing us in our in our friendship, our brotherhood, yeah, their moms, our wives, you know, and their sisterhood to be a healthy representation of what community should be. Yep. Yeah, we're gonna have to do a part two because there's bro. This is what happens when you show up, bro.
SPEAKER_06No, I've never said that, but that's uh I love the thought of village because I feel like when you're able to step into the calling of a relationship like we have been able to, there are so many scriptural truths that come true. Like our quivers are full. We have beautiful families. Like objectively. I love our kids, yes. We have beautiful families. We see the fruits of the spirit in all of them together and individually. We see the five-fold ministry that Jesus left throughout our kids individually and together. Like, I think that there's something incredibly special about walking in the relationships that God has told us we will have. I mean, if we take the Bible to be true and everything that it is, we can expect as a blessing in our life. I go back to the disciples walking with each other. There's so much that we have been able to experience that I'm like, it's only because y'all did it first. Yeah. Like it's only because y'all did it first.
SPEAKER_04That's good.
SPEAKER_06Like we we wouldn't be able to do this. But I can read and be like, oh, y'all got y'all, y'all got a little heated. I can get a little heated. And it's almost like it gives you that freedom to just be who God has called you to be. Yeah. And in that you will find people that God has shown who you were meant to be. Like I remember years, years ago, and it hasn't happened yet. So, Lord, when it's when it's time, we are meant to do something with our wives. And I know that we will communicate with our wives.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I remember this. I remember talking about this.
SPEAKER_06I remember talking about this too. And it has not happened yet. Yeah. But with some life changes coming up, maybe. Maybe, yeah. Maybe I see what you did there. You know? But it's like it's those moments where we could have taken that for just what it is and like, ha ha ha. A silly little whim. Or I can take it as, God, you're showing me something that it's just not time for. Yes. I will hold it for when you're ready. Yeah. Like I will hold that in my heart. Like truly prophetic. Right. Like I'll hold it. Yes. And I think that there have been moments where we've gotten to do that with our kids. With our kids, with our kids. Yeah. And have been able to speak into like, hey, you are such a leader. Or like you love so big. Yeah. You make friends so easy. You're gifted in this. You are so smart and you can see details that no one else can. Yeah, bro. And I I feel like that's that's an extension of this because we can do it so openly. They see it. Yeah. And I'm just I'm waiting for the next six years when they are all that age of like, that is the next generation. And I feel good about that. Come on, man. Like I feel good about you have had 18 years of people are pouring into you. Yep. You are seen, you are loved, you are valued, you are called, you are appointed and anointed. Go do it for the world.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_06And I feel good about that. And I know that it's not just us. Like I know this is happening around the world. Yes. And to see that generation, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Bro. And we're here. Because there's gonna be moments where it's hard. Yep. There's gonna be moments where you question God. There's gonna be, but you always have a place.
SPEAKER_06Well, and there's gonna be she broke my heart. Yeah, he broke my heart. Listen, I might rave for that. How dare they, you know? Yep. And they're not gonna want to talk to us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yep. At least they have at least they have somewhere we that we can point them to.
SPEAKER_02But again, I want to be able to be at the table of their lives and say, okay, fine, you don't want to talk to me, but across the table is your Uncle Daniel. Go. Go talk to him. Yep. Yes. Bro, okay, okay. You jumped into this thing that was a great segue, so I can't I can't miss past it. About us doing stuff together as, you know, family. And I remember that. Um, and I'll give context here in just a second, but like when we when we were doing our thing and we felt that too, it definitely felt premature.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. But last season of us could not have handled that calling. No, no, no way.
SPEAKER_02And I think to be honest, humble, when we talk about the real stuff, I think we try to, we, we like prototyped it. Yeah, no, and it didn't really take off.
SPEAKER_06No way.
SPEAKER_02And that's okay.
SPEAKER_06And that's okay, because yeah, we wouldn't be able to have been messy, it would have been unhealed. Because that was so early.
SPEAKER_04Yes, it was.
SPEAKER_06That was so early.
SPEAKER_02And that's what happens when you have head knowledge and maybe even some wisdom without a healed heart. Yep. People oh, you can lead people astray. Character and walking in healing is so important. And the wisdom of life. And the wisdom of life, like the experience.
SPEAKER_06Like the wisdom of like I love Acts, I love Romans. I feel like I read them two or three times every year, and I'm still learning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06Like I feel like God is still revealing things of like, hey, you weren't ready for this five years ago, and I know you've read this scripture 200 times. Can you hear my heart this time? It's like, whoa. Us then, no way. No way. I haven't read the scripture enough.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I I I didn't get to that 200th time where God showed me what that meant. Yeah, bro. Like I'm not there yet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I even think, yeah, just like practically like having a, you know, being able to wield the sword of the word in a way that is not this like arrogant, like, haha, look at me. I have so much memorized. But no, in a way where like I have the word hidden in my heart, like it says in scripture, in a way that I can use it against the schemes of the enemy and I can recognize the schemes of the enemy. Right. So much so that, hey, real quick, this feels off. We need to pray. Like, just things like that. And I agree. I think that season would have would have crushed us. Yep. Um, if we had all done it together. And I also think we have had years and years and years and years of healing, but also training. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, and we've been able to see God's faithfulness through seasons. And I think that's something that I didn't realize was a lesson I needed. You know, so in this move where we have not been with our direct community for almost two years, something that I'm still recognizing and leaning on is God is still being faithful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_06Like that has never stopped and that never will. And yeah, in my fleshy parts, I'm like, God, show me the thing. But knowing that, like in five, 10 years, when I look back on this, I'm trusting that God is going to show me because he's already done it. You know, like he I've already seen him do it so many times where it's like, you didn't know. Like we were in the Catholic Church for a long time, and that transition out, it's how we got into marriage ministry was in the Catholic Church. And it's how God revealed that burden on our hearts that we would love marriage and that we would want to cultivate healthy marriages. Had we not been faithful through that season, I don't think that God would have ever been able to show us because our hearts were so close to it. Yeah, bro. Like we would have never been able to. And so I'm looking forward to this. Like, there will be a time and a place where God uses this part of our story in the midst of us being like, was this the right thing? Are we doing the right thing? You know, like what's going on? God show it. I just know in a few years you're gonna be like, hey, remember that time. Yep. Go use that to save a soul. Yeah. Go use that to repair a marriage. Go use that to reach a youth. Go use that to talk to the guy on Sunday. Go use that to invite the new family home for dinner. Like, I know that God is going to do something incredibly special, but I've already seen it. Yeah. And like our relationship, when we do have those weird little moments of like, how dare you? I've already seen God heal and reconcile it and make it so much stronger, time after time after time. And I think that's what it has allowed us the space of grace. Like if I'm gonna come up and be like, Anton, you're being stupid. I know that I can say that to you because you're gonna hear the heart of dang, what did I say? Like, I'm gonna receive it. And vice versa, where it's like, homeboy, I heard what you said. We need to talk about those words, you know. And it's like, oh, yeah. Because we have allowed that, but we have also seen God use that so many times. Yep. Like, imagine we'd not had that. I would I think I would be like a trash husband.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like honestly, I mean, there was so much healing that I had to walk through and so much to learn as a husband that without having this back and forth, oh yeah, how many lessons would I have not been able to learn?
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Same. Same. You've heard me say this before, but like, man, the two, the true strength and test of a friendship, um, you're able to see that when the commonality of that friendship, what brought it together or what was holding it together for so long is removed. Right. And oftentimes you're able to see the strength of that relationship or lack thereof. Yeah. Now, again, you know, we talked about this a lot, but it's like, yeah, some relationships are seasonal and they are for that specific time. That doesn't mean, like, if you know, you never talk to that person anymore or you know, whatever, the seasons change. That doesn't mean it was bad or that they did something or you did something. It's just that season is done. Yep. But there are some relationships where it's like, no, it didn't stand the test of time because it was not strong enough to withstand the test of time. Because my brokenness and your brokenness together was just too much for us to move forward. And what I love about us is that our friendship has stood the test of time. Truly, it has. That we've had a lot, a lot of common things that brought us together or could have kept us together removed, like living in the same city. Like a lot of things that were like, oh, well, we'll probably never talk as much and blah, blah, blah. It's like we've had so much removed that was a commonality for us. Yeah. And it is not shaped. In a lot of ways, I believe it has strengthened our relationship because we had to be, we've had to be super intentional about talking often, but also not filling the gap of time with mistrust if we haven't talked in a couple months.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's the other part where it's like, oh dang, is he mad? Or did I say something? It's like, no, bro, we're just busy. Right. We're living life.
SPEAKER_06But we give each other the freedom to do that. Yes. Because again, we've seen it. Yeah. Like we have seen it. We've walked through some messy, really busy times. Yeah. Proximity helped, of course.
SPEAKER_02Of course.
SPEAKER_06But it's also like, yep. Yeah. I remember like literally four or five times a week to maybe we'll see y'all next month. Okay, cool. Let's work it out. You know? Yeah. Because it sometimes the rhythm just changes.
SPEAKER_02Or like, yeah, you're like when you you worked a job where you traveled um, you know, quite a bit. It's like, well, you're you're traveling. Yeah. You know? And it's like, well, okay, I'm just very practically speaking, I'm not gonna see you for like six weeks because you're traveling for work. Our relationship doesn't have to suffer because of that.
SPEAKER_06And having- you'd be busy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. But having the maturity to even just say that. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, okay. We got to talk about home husband. Let's do it. We gotta talk about okay. So the context that I want to give you guys real quick is if you look back in the day, uh years ago. Yo, bro. It's been a million.
SPEAKER_06Literally years ago. Years ago.
SPEAKER_02Years ago, we did this thing that honestly I believe was the the predecessor to uh humble, where we talk about the real stuff, this movement that Daniel and I started calling Home Husband. And reason why that's significant is we started that. There's a couple of reasons I want to bring this up. Number one, like Daniel already alluded to, this was a very different version of us. I go back and look at videos and I'm like, dang. So I think I told you this too. I have this idea, maybe you know, you guys get to just watch us have a conversation for a second. But like, I I think I told you this, but I have this creative idea of like going back to some of our old podcasts, commentarying, and commenting on things of like, hey, that was good and I still agree with that, or I actually don't agree with that anymore.
SPEAKER_06Or here's the context of 10 more years of life. Yes, yes, bro. Yeah, or here's the context of I'm now healed through that. Yes, bro. Or I have now seen that. I think that'd be really fun.
SPEAKER_02Experience that, yeah. Yeah, I think that'd be really fun. So, okay, anyway, back to this. But but yeah, so uh humble husband was something that we did. And there's a couple things I just want to point out. Number one, we were bold enough to start it though. And I don't believe this would be what it is if we wouldn't have started that, because what I feel like the Lord was doing in my heart, there was a burden for men to be men, uh, fathers to be fathers, husbands to be husbands. Like, like it was truly this movement for us to like give context, especially, and I think this was important too. We were younger and we have not seen, okay. This is we're about to jump into this river at that time and even now, but especially at that time, we did not see a lot of healthy examples of guys our age doing it well. Yep. So we were like, let's do it. Yep. It's a little messy. We may mess up some Bible words, we may. And we did right. We may we may say some things that are like, ah, but man, we tried. We tried.
SPEAKER_06Well, and I think I mean we pushed each other to try. Yeah. Yeah. Scripture Saturday. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, how many times were we like, I know that we probably need to talk about this, but are you sure? Cause I I don't know if we're ready to go, you know? Uh-huh. And it was like, well, someone has to.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_06Like someone has to. And I think we we have seen that time and time again where when we had gentlemen reach out of like, man, that one sentence, like, yes, I've never heard anyone say that. Or I've never had that perspective, or I didn't know this was missing. Like, I think there's something that it goes along with the leaps of faith, you know. Sometimes you don't see the return. Yeah. And then sometimes you see it years later, uh-huh. But sometimes it's immediate. And I feel like some of those it was immediate, where it was like, yeah, we don't really want to talk about porn and we don't want to talk about addiction, but someone has to because it's still a struggle. And people are still walking through it, and it's still hurting marriages. So let's do it. While both of us were still healing through that part of our journey. Uh-huh. And both of us were still, you know, like, uh, okay, I know I'm going to say this. Have I been able to do this? That part. You know? Talk about it, bro. But it's like going and taking that first step. I feel like the return God did. Uh-huh. Like we opened the door, and I I truly believe that there were a lot of moments of healing that we will never hear about. Uh-huh. Never know about. And I think that's so beautiful. And that's like I would rather us not know. Yes. Like, I would rather think, hope, and believe that God healed 2,000 men from one episode. Uh-huh. And we hear nothing. Uh-huh. Because if that's part of their journey to God be the glory and they get to go and coach their boys, and they get to go and be an example for their church and their community. Yeah. It's exactly why we did that. Yes. It was part of our healing journey for sure. I feel like God did some very some tough work on our hearts in some of those that were more difficult, but then it it set the groundwork for now, bro. Almost 10 years later, is crazy. It is. But to go back and say, like, hey, I know I said this, but this was a 24-year-old hurt version of me. I would say this now.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So you jumped into something I want to, I want to jump into uh with the remainder of our time a little bit, but just I think the nuance of I okay. I believe that we both have we both have grown in our biblical knowledge and just theological knowledge of how to handle scripture, how to talk about it, uh, not just knowledge, but also wisdom of how to apply it. Yep. Personally, but also you're in ministry, I'm in ministry. Like I think we've grown in that. So I don't want to take away from that. We've studied, we've, you know, we we've we are we are mentors to people and we are mentored by people as well. Where, you know, we have people submitted to us and we submit to other people. So I don't want to take away from that because that that is important. But to what you just said, that I think is even more important, or at least I'd say is equally as important, is we are also 10 years more healed than we were then. Yep. So I think that's significant because yeah, maybe I have some more Bible knowledge, but the more important thing is I'm not talking out of my brokenness in the same way. It will I ever be completely arrived? No. But man, it's definitely better than 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02And how I could talk about a certain subject with authority and freedom in that area. Yeah. Not just theory. Yep. So yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06I think it's important to say. Yeah. Well, I mean, and we did we had to do that a few times. Because how do you talk to someone who's been married for 20 years when you haven't been married for 20 years? Right. Like, it is what it is, but by the grace of God, I mean, Holy Spirit definitely dumped so much wisdom into some of those where I will look back and be like, whoa, we said that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_06Like, where did that come from?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, bro. The Holy Spirit was all in that. Like, whoa. Yeah. I was like, that's good. That's profound. Yeah. Like, we said that. And I think that's also why on the other side of this coin is we started. Yep. We started it, we took a step of faith, we did it. Um, it was never gonna, and and the Lord revealed this to me later. Humble husband was never going to outpace or scale past our level of healing. Yeah, that was a hard thing to hear from the Lord. Hey, this will never be as big as the personal work that you do. Right. So keep doing it and continue to heal. Yep. So I'm gonna put it on record right now and just say at some point, humble husband's probably gonna make a comeback. We have not talked through those details because there's some personal things a decade. Well, I'm just saying there's some personal things we gotta work out first before we can probably jump into that. But I will say I I believe that that is something that we're still supposed to do. I also believe it's going to look Different now. Oh, a thousand. Because of what we walk through. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So I mean, I I think we'll be able to give context to the the actual parts of healing. That part. That we just didn't have. That part. I mean, I I think the the theory and most of what we said is probably pretty fine. Yeah. You know, but now it's like, man, after walking through being a husband for 10 years, 13 years, 15 years, here's two things that you can always do.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06After now parenting multiple children, here's one thing you can always say, which we just didn't have. Or it's like I said it once, because I've only seen it once.
SPEAKER_02Well, and even it's like when you hear the, you know, the older generation, you know, and people, you know, especially if they've married for a long time or whatever, successful and whatever thing, and they're like in their 70s or 80s, and you're like, what's your secret? And you get this really simple answer. Yeah. And everybody's like, but that's it. And it's like, yeah, that's it. Yeah. We overthinking and overcomplicated. And after years and years and years of battle-tested wisdom, right? Hey, these two things, if you do that, it will save you years of hurt. Yep. Like, bro. And I want, I want to be that. Uh, not so I could say, look how awesome I am, but I want to be, you know, as a pastor, as a discipler, as a podcaster, as whatever, you know, for both of us to be positioned on camera and more importantly, off camera to be those people, to be like, hey, I remember being there in my 20s. I remember my addiction. I remember, you know, the moments where I feel like I couldn't tell anybody. Yep. I remember the moments where, you know, I called Daniel and just cried. You know, like, and I'm so thankful he's in my life. You know, and I want to talk about this. Again, humble where we talk about the real stuff. I want to talk about this because one, my hope is that this encourages someone to find this and to seek this.
SPEAKER_06Or if you have it, call it what it is. Call it what it is. Yep. Like if you already have someone in mind, like as you're listening and going through this, like if you already have that person where it's like, man, we only met by God's grace, go and have that conversation. Yes. Of like, hey, I'm feeling you are meant to be this in my life. Did the Holy Spirit tell you the same thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good, bro.
SPEAKER_06Like, did God confirm that for you?
SPEAKER_02Be intentional about that. Yes.
SPEAKER_06Because I mean, again, it's so easy to compartmentalize where it's like, okay, that person can be my best friend. I'm gonna be my best friend. And you never say it out loud. They're never gonna know. And then you're holding them to a standard that they don't know exists. And that part.
SPEAKER_02It's like, dude, I moved you to confidant stance uh status, but you think you're still an acquaintance. Right.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. You're over here sharing my business. You're not supposed to. How was I supposed to know? How was I supposed to know? Yep. Yeah. That's good. So it's like as that happens, go have the conversation.
SPEAKER_02I have the conversation. Bro, normally, like when I have guests, I'm like, hey, will you come back? You're coming back. Like, I'm just telling you.
SPEAKER_06I already said we had to do a part two. Yeah, you're you're coming back. There's too much in here that we didn't that we didn't get to talk about.
SPEAKER_02I know, man. Oh, man. And I want to honor our time today, but man, just we've talked about a lot. We've hit a few areas, but any final thoughts for our community, man?
SPEAKER_06Um I think I would like to take a second to um just affirm that the dream that God has placed on your heart or humble. Don't do this. Um I I think that it will be a season where in 10 years you're going to see the fruit of it. Like as you're walking through it, as you're being faithful and you're walking through the man, I wish that would have gotten more views, or I wish I would have gotten more listens. You know, as you're walking through those doubts, I really feel like God is just preparing you for in 10 years when you drop it in a second and people are already tuning in. Like I think He's preparing your bandwidth and your capacity right now. Because what you're talking about, bro, no one talks about the real stuff. Like how many people are doing this at such a high level, but also at a level where you are being so honest, you're being so transparent. Like, I think that what you're doing for your community is something that is really, really special. Like, and special in this fact that it is, it is set aside. Like God has already set this season aside. And it's already, like you're already seeing some of the fruit. And I think the fruit that you're seeing, it's like that little part. Like, expect the tenfold. Like, expect it to come back. Expect it to come back so blessed. And like, let's call it what it is. It is work, it is time. Like, like, I always think about this also in the sense of like, man, you're taking time out of your week that you could be doing blah. Like you're giving God that 10%. Expect the blessed 90. Like expect it to come back in such a way that is so powerful. Like you're leaving a legacy for your boys. Like, seriously, imagine in 10 years when your boys are walking through something. Man, my dad said that on this podcast. I need to go listen to that. And you and you're leaving little bits of your voice. Oh, don't do that. That's going to be set aside. Because I really feel like every time you have the opportunity to talk about your boys and talk about your family and talk about your wife, like you are leaving little bits of prophecy that God has already shown you. Like God has already shown you how strong your marriage is. He's already shown you how much you love your wife. Now she has this forever, you know? Like she has years and years and years and years and years of I love my wife, I love my family, I love my wife, I love my family, I love my wife, I love my family. And the work that you put to sit in that seat, God will bless it a million times over.
SPEAKER_00Come back for part two. I strongly dislike you right now. And I receive it. Thank you, ma'am. That that means a lot.
SPEAKER_02And the the part about I'll end with this because we're we'll go another hour if I don't, but the part about leaving a legacy for the kids. Yeah, and through the mechanism in the forum of a podcast is something that they can replay over and over and over again. I think about like how people lose a loved one and they have like voice voice notes or voicemails from them. I'm like, this is my this is that, yeah, this is my legacy to leave, like, you know, like a Bible that I've I've written in which I want to do that too. But it's like, but this is also that where it's like, hey, we have this ecosystem of episodes that have your father's voice.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, oh your grandkids' voice, like, bro. Because at some point someone will ask your boys, how are you so healthy? And they can this is what my dad did for me. This this is how I was raised. Like this is how I was affirmed over the years. This is what I got to look up to. Wow. At points, was it messy and hurt? Yes. And then you look right now, you are healed, you are called, you are anointed, you are walking in purpose that God has given you, that he's placed on your heart for years. You are trusting. That's the thing that I think God will continue to bless. Wow. Is you you have gotten to a space where you can really trust what God is doing in your life. Wow. And it's not for you, it's for him. Yeah. Because so often we want it for us. But you have gotten to a place and we have seen you and your family make the difficult yes, trusting that God is going to bless it. And I think this is one of those moments. Because doing stuff like this is hard. Yeah. But you said yes. Yeah. And you trusted that God will use it for his glory.
SPEAKER_00I receive it, man. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Y'all, this is why it's so important to have people in your life that don't love you for your gifts or your talents or what you bring to the table alone, but they love you for you. They value you for you. And, you know, if you if I look like I'm getting a little bit emotional, it's because this has been happening off camera for longer than this hour on camera for years and years and years. And here's the thing: we all have access to this. Like Daniel said earlier, though, like, uh, if you have it, steward it. And if you don't have it, find it. Because this is one of the most important things you can ever do for your life is have authentic relationships where you could be humble, right? You guys know our anchor scripture, 1 Peter 5, 6 and 7, right? Like, where you could be humble and you could talk about the real stuff in such a way that it's gonna be stewarded, it's gonna be honored, may not always be agreed with, but it's going to be held in such a safe place that pushes you back to Jesus. So I'm gonna end right there today and just say, we love you. I hope that this episode blessed you, and I pray that you find relationships in the community like the one I've been so honored to have in my friend Danny. Bro, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me, man. Love you, love you too. Until next time, y'all. We love you. Peace. Thank you so much for checking out this episode of the Humble Podcast. And here's my prayer is that something that was shared through the content today resonates with you in a way that changes your life. And I could actually use your help with something while you're watching this. Would you mind subscribing to what we're doing on YouTube? As you do that, that helps other people to be able to see and value what we're doing, just like you do. But also tap that bell icon so you never miss an episode. Next, if you are listening on Spotify and on Apple, leave us a review or comment so that way other people can see what God is doing. And lastly, I would love to invite you into the Patreon community. Simply go to patreon.com slash humble podcast and you can become a patron where you can financially support what we're doing. That gives you access to perks and rewards and like special QAs and different things like that that I'm doing. So that way this community can actually be one where we foster vulnerability and we talk about our real stories and our real journeys with Jesus. Thank you so much for doing that, and I cannot wait to see you next time.