The Power of Culture, Consistency and Customer Experience with Shea McNelis

In this episode of Event Matters, David Watt is joined by Shea McNelis, Co-Founder of Integrity Security, one of Ireland’s fastest-growing event security businesses.

What began as a bold decision to launch a new company in the middle of the Covid shutdown has grown into a business trusted to secure some of Ireland’s largest public events, including St Patrick’s Festival, major sporting fixtures and large-scale music festivals.

But this conversation is about much more than security.

Shea shares how his background in event promotion shaped his belief that security should be customer-focused, welcoming and built on trust rather than intimidation. He explains why culture and values have been central to Integrity’s rapid growth, how the business has prioritised staff retention in an industry known for high turnover, and why familiar faces and consistent service matter so much to event organisers.

The discussion also explores what happened when Shea stepped away from the business for more than two months to travel with his family, the lessons he learned about trust, delegation and founder dependency, and how the experience changed his perspective on leadership and growth.

Away from the events industry, Shea reveals his long-standing passion for music, from managing chart-topping artists to launching a new music development label focused on nurturing emerging talent.

Expect insights on:

• Building a values-led business in a highly demanding industry

• Why customer experience starts with the first person attendees meet

• Creating a culture of trust, accountability and professionalism

• The importance of staff retention and career development in events

• Managing risk, crowd safety and large-scale public events

• Letting go as a founder and building a business that can operate without you

• Why work-life balance matters, even during periods of rapid growth

• Following passions outside the day job and the lessons creativity can teach business leaders

This episode is a fascinating conversation about leadership, trust and building a business with purpose. Shea’s story offers a refreshing reminder that sustainable growth starts with people, culture and having the confidence to step back and let others succeed.

Host: David Watt, Partner at Kershaw Partners

Guest: Shea McNelis, Co-Founder, Integrity Security

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Kershore Partners podcast, Event Matters. Conversations about the realities of running, growing and scaling event businesses today. This podcast is for established event business owners who want clarity, confidence, and a different perspective on the road ahead. Our aim is to keep these conversations open, informal, honest, practical, and even sometimes a little bit informative. So you can walk away with fresh insights and ideas you can put into action in your own business. I'm glad you're here, so let's get started. This week I'm joined by Shay McNeilis, co-founder of Integrity Security. Shea operates at the sharp end of large-scale public events where planning, people, and pressure all collide. And in this conversation, we explore what it really takes to create environments that feel safe, seamless, and professionally run without security ever feeling intrusive. Based in Dublin, Integrity Security delivers security solutions across Ireland and Northern Ireland, supporting everything from major sporting fixtures to vast public gatherings such as St. Patrick's Day, where hundreds of thousands of people stake to the street. But this isn't a story about high viz jackets and heavy presence. It's about culture, leadership, and raising standards in an industry where you're only ever as good as your last event. Shea shares what it's like to launching integrity during COVID, arguably the most uncertain time imaginable for the event sector, and why he believes security should be welcoming, intelligent, and customer focused first and foremost. We talk about crowd flow, risk assessment, retention, building a salaried team in traditional gig leg sector, and why integrity has to start at the top. We also step back into Shea's lifelong passion for music, from managing chart-topping artists to launching rhubarb music, a development label helping emerging talent find their path. It's a conversation about leadership, legacy, ego, trust, and knowing when to step back so others can step up. If you enjoy this conversation, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. You'll get new episodes before anyone else and keep up with the stories shaping our industry. This is Event Matters, and this is Shay McNeilis. Shea, very warm welcome to the Event Matters podcast. Lovely to see you and thanks for being a guest here.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Thanks, David. Really looking forward to having this. Been listening to the other shows and found it via interesting to date and very helpful on some matters as well. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

The most interesting thing about it is the conversations that I've had with people, and particularly, you know, that lovely expression, never judge a book by its cover. You know, you think, oh, this person runs this sort of business, they must be that sort of person. And very rarely, if ever, are they that sort of person? It is an interesting listen. For those who don't know integrity events, and obviously you're a Dublin-based company, so not in the UK. How would you describe what the business does and what are you really known for in the events world?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

So we are a security company that provides security solutions for public and private entities in Ireland and Northern Ireland. We are a client and customer focused company that value our people. We provide personnel, crime prevention, CCTV, access control, and alarm solutions. We would be known very much so for large-scale events security, which would include sporting events like football, golf, GA, the NFL, and large gatherings like St. Patrick's Day, that's coming up shortly for 500,000 people.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

It is Paddy's Day, not a million miles away. I should be at the Cheltenham Festival.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah. It's a biggie for us. And other things like the FLA, where there'll be 800,000 people across the week. So very large-scale events and music festivals as well on top of that, too.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I know you've been involved in the events world for ages, but in terms of the security world, your relative newcomer, what, five, six years old. We know it's a massive market, but how did you get your foot in the door with these sorts of events? I'm intrigued by how you came along and said, My name's Showmann, I've got this security company. Will you employ us? How does that kind of work?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

We've been previous company. We actually changed during COVID, myself and Pat, my business partner, and decided to set up integrity and set up a brand new business doing events in the middle of the world crisis at the time where events were closed down. So it was the maddest thing to do ever. And I was very lucky from my events background, and Pat had been involved in lots of that the very first gig that happened to the open to the public in Ireland, I was asked to be the event controller for, and no one had put their hand up to do it because there was too many unknowns.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

So this would be in 2021, would it?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah. So we hit the ground running from that. It was like 500 capacity people, and they were all in their little pods, and you know, there was a massive production for this. This was being the same production that would be put on for you know 20,000 people, and it was 500 at it. So it was in Dublin in the Ivy Gardens, yeah. So it was an honor to be asked, to be honest with you, and it really set our stall out from day one. Because we had been working with St. Patrick's Festival before that, and we got in on the tender from that year, and we've been doing it since. So, you know, we just hit the ground running. Plus, you know, business is about people at the end of the day. You do business with people that you know and people you trust and all that, and it is a very small industry across the UK as well, and we were very fortunate that everyone knows everyone, yeah. And there's negatives to that as well, because we always say you're only as good as your last gig. So you can have done, you know, 25 years of amazing stuff, but if you mess up one gig, that can be the end of the road. So you just have to stay on the ball all the time.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

And in terms of security, I mean, obviously, as you said, you're an event spectrum, and you get asked to be the events controller by the sound things rather strange gig in 2021. Was there something about security that made you think actually this could be done an awful lot better?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Absolutely. I think you know, I came from a promoter background, ran events in universities, lots of venues. There was nothing that used to annoy me more than I'm gonna call him a bouncer because there's a difference between a bouncer and a security guy, but the guy in a bomber jacket, leaning against front door, chewing chewing gum, disinterested, not understanding what was going on inside in the venue, not understanding who he worked for, because that happens quite a lot. They didn't know he was just sent there to work on door, and you're going, This is the first person that is inviting my guests to my event, and this is their first experience. And for some people, they can turn around and go, I'm not putting up with this. Like so we changed the model, not other people have done it, but was the first thing that we went, right? Somebody has to do this better. And we really said that this is should be a customer-focused service, and first and foremost, it should be a welcoming person that that that is on that. Security shouldn't feel like security, it should be part of something, and you should just relax in that environment. It's the secure feeling of knowing it's there, but it's not intrusive. Exactly. It's a secure feeling rather than being, you know, security-driven. Hard makes any sense.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, no, exactly. I think that is a light touch thing, and but it's also, did you find it was like a change of mindset from the people within the security world that you spoke to? You said, Yeah, okay, what we're looking to do is to have this, whether you'd say welcoming face, but it is a welcoming face to say that hey, you welcome to your event, this event, whatever the event might be. You know, you're in safe hands, big smiles. Was that a mind shave for people?

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I think so. I think you know, just getting back to the bouncer thing again, like the fact they've regulated the industry, it's very regulated in Ireland. So we're regulated by the private security authority. You know, you have to have a security badge and you have to work for a contractor's company. You can't be an individual working somewhere. So that helps a lot because then you have control of the staff that you're looking after, and you can also tell people how you want the business to be. And what it also did is it got rid of a lot of bad practices across the industry.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

You were the seed that started the change of attitude.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

I wouldn't say we were the seed, but I would say that we brought it on another level. I think that's why we've been very successful in the last five years. We're not looking at what the practice is, we're trying to make it better and be where the level should be. That's what our plan is right across the board. We call the company integrity for a reason, and that's for every day when we do something, we have to make sure that the staff understand that that's what it's about, you know. And integrity, you know, the one thing that it's meant to be about is doing the best that you can and being honest when people aren't actually watching. You shouldn't be having, you know, our clients standing over and worrying about it, or any of our management that aren't on site worrying about the service that's provided. And that's what we do try and portray with our business.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah. I mean, I love the fact that you called it integrity. And I guess from a culture perspective, the fact that it's writ large in everything you do. Do you find the people you have in the business that they buy into that integrity story?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I think so. And I hope so. I'm a great believer in that everything should lead from the top and your values should lead from the top. And our values have always been about respect. And when we say respect, it's respect for the people that work for us, you know, respect for the customers. We always say that our customers and our clients' customers should feel like, you know, that they're ours as well, because we are part of that. If you're going, especially on a very large event or security, the the first people that you meet, as I said earlier on, are the security. We are the customer-facing side of a festival. You might never meet the promoters or anyone else. First interaction that you have with people. So we need our staff to understand that right through. So our managers, you know, we're very much into briefing and rebriefing and saying the same thing day after day to the staff so it sinks in. And I think it is working. That's why we're growing so fast.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

And in terms of what that looks like, I mean, I guess you would say, you know, it's well dressed, it's, you know, an attitude. But from a customer's point of view, what do you like to portray to them? I mean, if you've had the AI version of a perfect security person at X, Y, and Z festival, what do you think that would look like?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So I think if there's an issue and security is needed, it should be done by intelligence and using, you know, the best thing that you have, which is your mouth, you know, to deal with something and words. So we've always said that to de-escalate any situation as much. So you can preempt things. I think, you know, the famous thing of fail to plan and plan to fail, it definitely works in the security industry. So we try and look at every scenario that could possibly happen in lots of risk assessments prior to an event. So when we know a scenario is going to happen, we've thought about it in whatever way that we can. So the staff members then know that something very simple is usually where something can escalate. You know, if somebody's not dealing with something in communication, it's the gold on this. You have to be able to communicate with people. So we're more interested in someone that can communicate rather than have a burly six foot ten lad who's not going to do that. We have a lot of women that work for us, and we find women in security are absolutely brilliant because they can see a situation happening before it happens and they can talk it down and calm a situation down.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Yeah, well, I've talked about this a lot on recent podcasts, as about whatever you're doing, you have to have a level of emotional intelligence to understand people a bit, to say, oh, I can see what's happening here. How do I react to the situation?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I think you're 100% right. Everybody has stuff going on in their lives, and you don't know, you know, one day that David Watt is arriving to an event and somebody says something to spark something off. And he's probably 99% of the time the nicest, coolest guy that you'd ever meet, but just wrong place, wrong time, all of that. So sometimes you just need to give a little bit of space in between, you know, the time that somebody's doing something, figure out what's going on and try and de-escalate something. And I think that is really important, you know, the industry that we are, that muscle is not going to sort this out. You know, there's occasions where sometimes it's needed, but very, very I could tell you in six years it's less than a handful time.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Is it when we talked before, I was sort of naturally presumed that as a business you would have lots and lots of freelancers working for you, which I'm sure you do, but you've got 260 odd people on the payroll, which is a huge responsibility as far as you're concerned. But in terms of going down that road of being very people heavy, why did you think that was the way forward, or is that quite typical?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

It's not quite typical in the event space. And, you know, I suppose one of the things that we looked at first and foremost is retention and retention of staff. And you have to make the security industry a career for people. So in the past, you know, if somebody was in college and they did it as an extra mixer while they're in college or someone's working in a building or whatever, and they did it at the weekends, worked in a club. What we needed to do is have a consistency of staff. So because events now are 12 months of the year as well as the other security work that we do, but you know, clients want to see the same people because they know when they arrive on you know a site and whatever it is and wherever in the country it is, and one of our managers rocks up with his supervisors and a number of faces that are familiar. They just go, All right, you know, coming from events background, I know this that you can go, all right, I'll show you relax. I can get on to actually running the show, don't have to worry about security. He's got a control of this, you know. I can now start looking at whatever the other problems are. Because that's what events are, really. It's pro uh solving problems as you're going along because events are live. And from our perspective, there's a pathway for our staff. You know, we get them involved, we say, All right, we want you on the books. Don't be worrying that this month there might be only X amount of hours. You are good at getting paid a wage, so you know at the end of the year it'll make absolute sense. And we've had some great stories through it. You know, we one young guy that started with us, and you know, I tried it explains you know, being a regular paid monthly, it will change your life regarding, you know, the bank and everything else. That chap has now got a mortgage. You know, life is different for him and more settled. And uh he is fantastic, he's one of our best managers that we have, and he's going to keep growing in the company, I have no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, I guess that's exactly what I mean using the word security, but but I guess it's quite an insecure or potentially quite an insecure job if you don't know, you know, when the next gig is happening, when the next event is happening, when you're going to be needed again. But I guess, you know, if you know that you've got a job and you're gonna be paid, and I guess that you'll do overtime, so that you know there's plenty of room for getting more money than the basic salary, but at least they've got that security to know that they've got a job with you. I guess they feel very valued because of that.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, I hope so. And just, you know, going back to the COVID thing again, the events industry in Ireland, and I'm sure this was the same across the UK, lost so many, you know, really good people that were uh the brains of high, you know, the bigger stuff. And they found jobs in film or whatever, you know. I know some people went to tech companies, and the reason, you know, they started working in these places and they went, I have the weekends off, I can now have a family life, I can know what money is coming in. And the gig economy, which was starting to become the real cool thing across events and stuff that has disappeared, not I wouldn't say totally, but has definitely disappeared where people want to know what they are doing in six months' time. And you know, if you want to have a family life, and that's the beauty that what we do with our guys is they know they're not working every single weekend, you know, that they have their what they're meant, their 40 hours a week, wherever they're meant to work, and it's the work-life balance. Like we are family men, Pat and I. We try and balance that. And we have said that to people that join us from day one, getting back to the retention side of it, is that is really, really important when you're working in this industry that you can carry on having a normal life, you know, rather than just being hanging around waiting for that phone to ring. So it's very important for retention. And as I said, it's very important from the client's perspective as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

But as you highlighted, it's about familiar faces, it's about guaranteed quality as the client, the other side of the you immediately go, oh, okay, that's fine, that's all good. In terms of when you're putting together an event and you talked about risk assessment and the likes, what are the processes or the systems that you use in the business when you get a pitch to do and you win that pitch, and you know it's for, I don't know, 25,000 people over two days or whatever it might be. What are the processes that you go through to be able to deliver? Not necessarily to pitch for it because that's irrelevant, to actually deliver on the day, what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah, so it depends, you know, if we're working with Festival Republic, for instance, or you know, MCD or Aikens, you know, they're very good at what they do. They have a lot of that work done themselves. St. Patrick's Day team working there very experienced, but you'll always build on every experience, you know. It doesn't matter even if it's 10 people, you'll always have a you know a debrief of it and go, how can we improve that going forward? We do use a number of different tools for people tracking for ourselves, you know. So, you know, one plan is is one that's been used. You know, everything that we have is on Microsoft 365, and share all our managers are on SharePoint, um, just because it's live, everything changes on a daily basis. We're dealing in people hours, you know, people get sick, all that kind of stuff. So it's communication. People need to know, our managers need to know, our supervisors need to know when things change all of the time. You know, we look at crowd flows in advance of how something will be. St. Patrick's Day is a prime example of that. Like we would have started doing site visits and site walks in December, it doesn't start till March, and on a weekly basis on the different zones, our managers meet with our guy that manages the whole thing and the St. Patrick's Day. So we look at the crowd flow going to, you know, you have 500,000 people going to an area. So we need to look at if this gets busy, we have stepbacks in certain areas where that crowd is pushed back down the street, and then looking at where the communication systems go in and all along that, and work very closely with the organizers and what our expectations are on it regarding that. We've got some really super people working for us, you know. Brian has just joined us recently. Brian was Victoria General in the Irish Army, Martin Mooney is our CEO, he was superintendent in the police. They're used to managing large scales of people and also, you know, threat and all the other things that go with it. So we use other things like GalleyNet, QR Patrol, you know, Sage, WhatsApp is a huge important thing for us. It's great. I think WhatsApp is probably one of the greatest inventions of all time. And just making sure that all our managers are using the same system and it's done the same way because you can't have anyone going off, you know, setting up their own Excel sheets that doesn't follow into the way that our pre-planning is done. So it's people staying in their lanes and not being passed on, and that then growth can happen out of that once we put those systems in place.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

The crowd flow, I guess I'm just as a complete aside, but I guess through your experience, uh you know, you're talking about Paddy's Day being a good example. You've done this event before, it's a huge event, there's half a million people going to be there. You understand the crowd flows because that's how the crowd flows and you've seen it before. In terms of things like catering, which I don't know, you know, whether you ever get involved with, but when you're speaking to an event organizer or event promoter, and he's saying, Well, we've got catering spots here and here and here and here, do you ever find yourself going, I wouldn't do that because actually no one walks past that at this particular time or whatever it might be?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, we've been involved in lots of that. We do event control separately as well, you know, from our other business and styles when so we understand crowd flow and crowd measurements, and we have all the tools to do that, figuring out where people will go and looking at excess, uh exit routes. And so there's formulas for this. It's not rocket science. And I always think regarding experience and talking to other people who have been involved in that similar event and going, Well, what has happened here in the past? You know, and if everyone's transparent with each other and stuff like that, it's so much easier to solve a solution. You know, people in crowds manage themselves a lot of the time. You know, people will move in a certain way and self-police, but you need to make sure that the access to areas and the egress can cope with the numbers that you're looking at. That's one of the most important parts of that.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, I guess that's very true. And then going back to what you talked about earlier about work with so many different events, whether it's festivals or stadiums or whatever, and even local councils, is there a big difference between securing, you know, those huge, big established events and newer, you know, more fragile ones? In different ways.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

It depends, you know, who you're dealing with, you know, with people. Sometimes people on smaller events think they they know a lot, and that can cause lots of problems. I just keep saying communication is so key to this. And then budgets. Budgets are a big issue.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I've worked at NFM before and the margins were so ludicrously tight, but I guess it's the same as in security, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, like security margins are extremely tight. You know, we are governed by the ERO, the European regulation regarding payments uh structures, and that our insurance are massive. So, you know, you're dealing with a client who's gone, well, I don't need security here. And we, you know, the last time we didn't do that, and it's not in the budget. And I think I learned something a number of years ago. I used to manage events for a number of universities, and universities will be very careful of the brand of the university and and any issues happening in there. And the I remember at the time the Health and Safety Office said to me, Well, you know, if you can't afford to do this right, then don't do it. And I think that's one of the best advice that we've ever got. So if we were ever in a situation where we think this client is not willing to do it the way that we're saying that we want to do it, we will walk away from the event. It's a very hard thing to do, and we have done it. And that is the difference, you know, between, you know, uh, Test of Royal Republic or MCD or Aikens who are do this on an ongoing basis and have, you know, they will do it correctly. Um, whereas sometimes some of the newer people that can get involved in it don't understand the long-term effects because you can get a claim two, three years later.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

And I guess as you said earlier, you know, you're only as good as your last event. I guess that's doubly so in security. I mean, you really can't afford to cock it up, can you? That's the thing. I mean, and it may not be your fault if it cocks up. If the guy says, well, then this is our budget and you do it for that budget, and you know you're knowingly understaffed. That must be, you know, I don't know if you've ever put yourself in that situation, not by the sound of things, but I was running an event and I knew I wasn't as staffed as I should be from a security, I'd be permanently panicking.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

You know, I've come through from working from you know theatres and nightclubs, right through, where you're trying to make it work for the budget. Well, I get it. I get it, it's a business and it's very tight. And the standards now that's you know acceptable by health. And safety bodies, you know, sometimes the all they're lacking of getting you to do is wrap people in bubble wrap and take you know no high heels in at a show. And there's lots of things that make but like if you're feeling nervous, you have to go with your gut on these things as well. If something doesn't feel right, you just shouldn't do it. That would be the way myself and Pat would feel about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

When we talked a couple of weeks ago, we talked about the fact that your wife was allowed to take a sabbatical from business and you took some time away from the business, which I think is always very brave because you know, as owner operator, you know, it's very difficult to step back and not find yourself permanently stuck in the weeds. But what was that experience like taking the decision to step away from the business? Was it three months she was away for?

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah, well, it was just about two and a half months we went. So we're very lucky that my wife, Melanie's company, have an amazing program that when they work after a certain amount of years, they get some time out and take a full smash of no emails, all that side of it. I wasn't going to do that because that wasn't going to happen. And we were we've got one son, and he was going into a year called transition year. So the timing was perfect. I suppose the whole timing from our side is our business was growing, and we were looking at doing this in September. So the day that I actually went away was the first day of electric picnic where we would have had 400 staff on. So, you know, it was a brave thing to do. Pat will say I was away for six months to a year because of the stress that it caused him at the time. But, you know, at the end of the day, it was fine. We retained all our customers. Some of the customers didn't even know I was away. We put a lot of pre-planning into it. I think the one thing that I learned from it was putting trust in the people that we have, which was a great part of the learning process of it, of stepping back. People working with you have to make their mistakes as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

And they've got to learn, Shay, haven't they? And that's the whole point, you know. And I think it's interesting. And we, you know, as you can imagine, I'm sure, as you know, we speak to a lot of people who are in your situation, who are running a successful business, and they've just got to a point where they thought, geez, I'm so in this that it's too dependent on me. But the sound things, the business obviously is dependent on you and Pat, but I think the sabbatical and everything that's gone with it has got you to a point that you're thinking, well, actually, there is a succession here. It doesn't have to run without me.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Absolutely. And I think just from a time perspective, so we did South America and Southeastern Asia and like some amazing things that people leave these things till it's too late. You know, they retire and then they're not, you know, fit enough or able-bodied enough to do some of the things that we did. And the other side of it, you know, our son at the time would have been 16 years of age. We have a couple of years left where we have that thing where he, you know, to be with someone for that amount of time on a daily basis, it was an amazing thing to be able to do. But what it did make me do is not worry about the small things because I think we can, as business owners, you get bogged down in absolute nonsense and noise. Um, when it will sort itself out, you know, or someone will sort it out. Because if you're sorting all the small problems out, you can't see the future and build into the future. For me, what it did is when it came back was when we started having our conversation with Mike and everything else. It was right, right. I know now that we can build this and double what we're trying to do because I kind of saw the wood from the trees and knew that we had a great team that could take up, you know, the mantle from the day-to-day running of the business. So it's changing my life.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, I'm sure it gives you more time, you know, regains that work-life balance, all the things that are important. And I think it's and it's incredibly difficult to do. We know it's incredibly difficult to do because people think they, you know, this person can't possibly be as good as me, but they actually can, and you've got to learn to trust people and to give them their head in their horse parlance just to get it and do it. And if they make mistakes, which they will, you go, that's fine. You haven't broken the internet, let's move on.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

You're 100% right. Ego is a huge thing to do with that, and any entrepreneur, anyone's trying to run the business. I think you start off with an ego. I hope as I've got older that has changed and I've realized that doesn't really matter. You know, money and all the other stuff that come with it doesn't really matter. And what I'm trying to do is build something with Pat that has a legacy in the future, you know, and the only way to do that is for the other people that are around us and the other people coming through get it and understand it, you know, and uh hopefully we can achieve what we're trying to do to give ourselves this better life for the future where we can step right back and you know the business will run itself.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Now, what many of your customers possibly might not know about you is your love of music and obviously Swerve was 20 years old, but obviously you've just started rhubarb music as well. I mean, we've talked before music is clearly your passion. Tell us what it's all about, and how on earth do you find time to do it?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

I was originally a musician, believe it or not. That's how I started, and then I, you know, I studied sound engineering and you know got to tour lots of places in the world, and then I managed some acts with some success in Ireland, you know, in the early days. And that was with Swerve, was it? With Swerve, yeah, yeah. So we had some number one records in Ireland, you know, it was great, and then the music business was changing, and that's why I kind of focused on the events side. We were very lost in the music industry when Napster got involved and everything else, and I just couldn't get my head around it. I was always booking music and booking new acts, and I just love music, I'm very passionate about it. And then I had an opportunity back to COVID again. Once again, I started managing a young band online and came across a producer who isn't my partner in Rhubarb, a guy called Rory Cushnan. Rory is an amazing guy, you know, he has a Grammy to his name, he's worked with Mumford and Sons and George Michael and some amazing math Ed Sheer and some amazing people through the years. And we were chatting and he said to me, I'm getting in these great demos from bands in Ireland, and they don't know what to do or where to go or what whatever. So he was like, I'd really like to set something up, which is like a development label, so to get somebody ready to hand them on to the next level. And the music industry has changed dramatically from when I worked in the last industry because of the whole online thing. So our idea is basically to get a band or an artist where we think they're ready to be handed over to somebody who can take them on to the next level. So we've signed five acts at the moment, really enjoying it. We've got some amazing music coming out in the next couple of months, and it eats me young, gives me a buzz, and you know, music affects me, you know, emotionally and physically, and I just absolutely love it. So it's great to have.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

What's the process to take them through to that moment where you say, okay, this is the moment you need to go to the bigger guys here and find a label or whatever it might be? Is there a process you take them through, or what does it look like the moment then they're ready?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, you know, currently, you know, we're at early stages of this, but like there's a difference between a band playing in small little pub and a band that you know you can look at them and go, All right, I can see them in front of 50,000 people here. They're well able to do that. But that's why I say it affects me emotionally and physically. Like, I don't know if it's you've ever done music with you, but or any of the arts where you just get a spine tingling sensation out of something. And that's what happens to me, anyways, where you just get this feeling.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Spine tingling that moment you listen to someone, it happens a bit, you know, you watch those um, I was gonna say pop idol, but that's showing my age. You watch the X Factors or Britain's Got Talent or whatever it might be, and I'm sure you've got the same in Ireland. You see someone who comes on and belts on me and you think, ooh, okay, that's proper, properly good.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, and and talent comes through the end. I was very lucky. I was I managed a young guy in Ireland who won kind of the first reality TV show in Ireland called Mickey Joe Hart. And uh, like you know, I was involved in before he went on the show, and he had that sound. You know, he went on to win the show and was one of the biggest selling artists of 2003 in Ireland. He ended up going five times platinum with his first single.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Must be such a nice outlet just to have that deep interest in something which is so far removed from your day job.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah, it is. And you know, I actually don't really make it well known. You know, I was chatting to my son about this January. He's got mad into music as well. He said, But dad, loads of people don't know you were a musician. You know, it's just I don't know why you don't tell people or anything. My daughter's it's like the other side of me. And you still play?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah. But hold on, that might be the future show. You know, it's never too late. You know, look at take that, they went on for years, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Now, listen, just before we finish, obviously, we traditions uh dictates that we finish with our rapid far around. So your most influential person doesn't have to be in your business life, could be in your personal life, doesn't matter at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah, it's my mum. She's amazing, she lives every day, like to the last. I think I've said this to friends. If she could give lectures on how to live life, I think she should be in there how to do it. She never complains. She's one of the most competitive people that I ever met. She played sports at a very high level, and she definitely suffers from FOMO, and she's only eight and nine years young.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

I've asked that question to, I think, every single guy. Well, I have asked that question to every single guest, and every single one of them has said a parent, which has really made me think that parenting is actually a really seriously important job. Sounds like she's an amazing woman and still going strong at eight or nine years old. And don't know whether you read them best business book you've ever read.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

I thought about this and I do read business books and I get bits from them, but I think probably the book that I always go back to is a book called The Alchemist. And the reason I say that is because you know the whole story of it is about the journey. And I think anyone who has business, that's what it's about. And I have had different businesses through the years. So for me, it's probably the best business book because that's what it's about. Um, your favorite movie. Hands down, it's Jaws. I can't believe I was only reading there recently because I watched it, it was on at Christmas again. I've seen the movie. Someone said it was on it was on Christmas Day, I think. Yeah, yeah. So like Spielberg was only 26 when he met that. And you know, it's Richard, Dreyfus, and Robert Shaw, and Roy Schneider. The movie theme, the theme tune that's like absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

And was the music was done by I was gonna say John Carpenter. Was it John Carpenter? Was it not Williams that did it? Yeah, John Williams, exactly right, yeah, that's exactly right. And he said, What is that it? And he said, Yeah, but listen, it's the menace. You know, the villain doesn't appear for ages and ages. The inference is there, you know, the the hand underneath the water and the bitten surfboard and all that stuff, but you don't see him. I listened to a podcast, the Kermode and Mare podcast, and Mark Kermode always talks about jaws, and he said it's the shark film, which is not about the shark, at which Ashley ended up asking Stephen Sabilberg about it, and Stephen Sabilberg said it's definitely about a shark, but in his view, it was about the relationships between people and particularly the Robert Shaw character.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, he's amazing in that. And I was looking at a documentary there recently, and I don't be like, you know, he's a proper Thespian, you know, Shakespeare actor, and he writes plays or he wrote plays, but you know that scene where they talk about when he was in World War and he talks about the sharks attacking and stuff like that. So that was ad-libbed. He came up with the idea and they needed to edit it. So he ad-libbed like it's an amazing scene. It's a fantastic editor.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Your favourite drink after a hard day of securitying or listening to music?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

I love red wine, but if you're if I was out, I would always have a whiskey sour. Absolutely love whiskey sours. A lot of cocktails come in and when I asked that question. Um, the small thing that drives you absolutely, man, the small mountain you would die on. It's people not stray talking. It drives me bananas. If somebody's got something on their mind, just tell me it and let's move on.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Now, this one doesn't particularly apply to you, I suspect, but passion outside of the event industry, I'm gonna say, has to be music. But is there another passion thing that you actually love? Absolutely love fly fishing, love golf. Do you get the opportunity to fish a lot?

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Not a whole lot, but I do. I have a group of pals, real close, bunch of buddies, and we've started the last couple of years travelling to different places. So we're going to Slovenia. Fly fishing in May. And that's trout, I presume.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah. All catch and release very Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think very few people keep them there. Have you ever been salmon fishing?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Oh, well, I come from the west of Ireland, so yes. Your hidden talent. I used to have goats when I was a kid, and uh no pun intended there. And uh yes, we used to have to milk the goats before we went to school, so not many people can milk the goat. To turn the milk into cheese or to drink the milk?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

No, to drink milk, and I absolutely hate goats' cheese. We had a goat as a kid too, and I have to say I've never liked goat's milk, and number particularly like goats' cheese either. It's just it's not quite right, is it? Dogs or cats?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Uh dogs. I think cats just aren't loyal. They'll just, you know, they'll go into the next door neighbor and get fed, and they're they don't care about you.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

They literally don't care about you, cats, and they look at you as if you're an absolute fool as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I absolutely agree. Yeah. My mother-in-in-law used to have a cat who'd lost its leg, and I used to call him tripod. And he just look at you as if you're, you know, an absolute gob shot.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, exactly. Um, the three people you would have to dinner, and why would you have them to dinner?

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Obama would be the one, definitely, especially what's going on stateside at the moment. I'd love to ask him what he actually thinks. I just think he's a really cool guy. I actually, you know, I don't know if you've ever seen him when he was doing the Kennedy Center stuff. He's like real into his music, and he's great at like taking the mick out of himself. Have you ever seen any of those comedy things that he's been involved with?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

So well, I watched him between two ferns, do you know what I mean? With just absolutely to die for, and he did it dead pan.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

That's why, yeah, so Obama would definitely be one. Billy Connolly, I love Billy Connolly's form of comedy where he goes off on a tangent, you know, just in a different place, and he laughs at himself all the time. And I just love that that he's laughing at himself before the joke is gone.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

It's just infectious. I think his accent is great too, and I just love it, you know, it and the effing and Jeffing and everything that goes with it, he probably couldn't do what he did then now, I don't think, because every second word was F this and F that. I love the story about him, about him learning the banjo, and the guy who was teaching the banjo had all the Daxons. Do you remember that story? And he knew that the guy who was teaching him the banjo was only one step ahead of him, one page ahead of him in the banjo manual. And he anyway, he used to go around to his house all the time, and he said he had all these Daxons, literally dozens of them. And he said, Um, what do you do when they come on the heat? You know, because that's gonna shag each other. And he said, Oh, I'll put the bitch upstairs and then the dog can't get them. And he said, Don't miss the stupid to just walk up the stairs. And he said, Have you ever watched a Daxon walk upstairs with an erection? Just what a great line. Uh sorry, number three. So we we digress.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

So number three is Roy Keane. You know, he's a he like he's in Ireland you either love him or you hate him. I absolutely love him. I'd love to experience the stare, you know. I've seen that Roy Keane stare. I'd love to experience it. Maybe let my phone ring in the middle of the dinner or something like that and see just, you know, does he stare me down? And I think he's hilarious. Actually, he's a really funny guy. I love any of the shows he's on at the moment. So I think between the three of them, you could just sit back and had and listen and have it'd be a wild night.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I think he's become a very good pundit, Roy Keane. And the podcast he does with Gary Neville and um who was his own poker, it just some of the comments. I mean, how he hasn't been completely written off and cancelled, I've no idea. Because he can be brutal.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

That's what's good. That's what's it's honest. And I think people like that. They like the honesty, but at the same time, he's kind of tongue in the cheek. He's got that Irish humor, you know. I love that sarcasm Irish humor thing. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Be a very, very good dinner party, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I wonder how Obama and Roy Keane would get on.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

I think they'd actually have a bit of crack because the two of them are can be so dead pan-faced, you know, you wouldn't know uh, you know, if it is one of them taking the mick or not, it'd be a good standoff between them. And finally, if you weren't running integrity, what would you be doing instead? I don't know. I don't sit still. I get bored very easily. So, you know, I was a sound engineer, so would I stay as being a sound engineer? I don't know. Would I be a musician? I don't know. I like gardening as well, believe it or not. So I think it'd be something in the arts.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yep, I get that. Listen, Shane and Neilis, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you very, very much indeed.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Cheers, Ava. Thanks. I really enjoyed it.