Unshakeable Talks

How to Become a Confident Public Speaker and Get Paid to Speak with Emma Gaskin

• Katy Schweiger • Season 1 • Episode 26

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In this episode of Unshakeable Talks, Katy is joined by Emma Gaskin, an award-winning speaking coach, founder of The Speaking Hub and creator of the SPEAK UP Method. From rebuilding stroke patients’ speech in the National Health Service to rebuilding her own confidence after years of misdiagnosis and burnout, Emma shares the journey that led her to help women stop playing small and start getting paid to speak. Together, Katy and Emma unpack the stories we carry about being ‘too much,’ the fear of judgment, why women are still expected to speak for free, and how to turn your voice into your most magnetic business asset.

Key Takeaways:

Your voice is more than sound - it’s identity

The way you speak is shaped by your past, your beliefs and the stories you’ve internalised over time. When you begin to question those narratives, you create space to speak with more confidence, clarity and authority.

Staying quiet and playing small comes at a cost

Staying quiet to keep the peace or shrinking yourself to fit into rooms will eventually catch up with you. Choosing yourself, even when it feels uncomfortable, is often the beginning of real growth.

Stop over-proving, start owning

Overdelivering and overexplaining can be a sign you’re trying to prove your worth. True confidence comes when you trust your value and allow your work to stand without constant justification.

Exposure isn’t payment, but strategy matters

Not every opportunity needs to be paid, but every opportunity should be intentional. When you align your visibility with your long-term goals, you stop chasing exposure and start building influence.

You don’t have to be the loudest to move the room

Powerful speaking isn’t about perfection or personality type. When you lean into your natural style and let your individuality shine, your message lands far more deeply.

If you enjoyed this episode - you can connect with Emma on Instagram @EmmaJGaskin and access her FREE Speaker Kit here. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Unshakeable Talks! If this episode helped you, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode, and leave a review to share your thoughts - I love hearing from you. 

Follow me on Instagram @i.am.katy.schweiger and @unshakeabletalks for updates, behind-the-scenes moments, and to connect with our unshakeable community.

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Unshakable Talks with me, Katie Schweiger. This is where we talk about the unshakable women behind the businesses. We are lifting the lid on what it really takes to run a business, to scale a business, to get into business while also creating a life you love. On the unshakable talks, we are all about talking about the conversations everyone is scared to talk about. We are really lifting the lid on what it really takes to become unshakable within business and life. At today's episode of the Unhakable Talks, I'm speaking to Emma. And Emma is an award-winning speaking coach, a 1% LinkedIn creator, and the creator of the Speaking Hub, where Emma teaches women to find their voice within business, use their voice, and get paid to speak. Welcome to the Unhakable Talk, Emma.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01

I'm so pleased you're here because your work is absolutely incredible. It's very needed. I need it, I know. But um you are an award-winning speech coach and you help so many women find their voice. But your story is very inspiring. So there is an Emma before Emma, the speech coach now. You actually worked for the NHS for over 10 years as a speech coach with stroke patients. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me a little bit about this.

SPEAKER_00

So, yes, I worked as a speech and language therapist. So when people have had a stroke, so usually a blood clot or a bleed in the brain, it can affect their speaking. So whether that's understanding language or whether it's thinking of the right words, so I would help them to speak again. And we'd have people who could not say a single word, all the way to people who just maybe forgot words a little bit more. So I absolutely loved it, but it was quite restrictive with working in the NHS with what I could do.

SPEAKER_01

And what made you you had um a pivotal moment within your life? You got actually quite poorly, haven't you? I know you don't mind me um asking you about this. Yeah, um, because that was the pivotal moment for you actually to do what you're doing now. So tell me a bit about this.

SPEAKER_00

I think there were two pivotal moments. The first one was being unwell, so I suddenly became very unwell. Sort of like, you know, when you go to the gym and you've been working out, and then the next day you're like, Wow, my muscles ache. And that's how I felt all of the time. It felt like my muscles were like made of lead, they were so heavy, I had a sore throat all the time. And I went to the doctors and was sort of told, Well, we I was told you have glandular fever. Fine. It carried on for months and went back to the doctors and was sort of told, I don't really know what to do with you. And actually, I it'd been going on for months and I was in tears. I got to the doctors and was like, You need to help me. Like I was 23, I think, at the time. I couldn't work full-time, I had to go part-time, I couldn't exercise, I couldn't go out. I spent most of my time lay on a sofa. And I went to the doctors, my GP said to me, I don't know what to do with you when you come to me in this state.

SPEAKER_01

That's what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I was essentially told, like, here's an antidepressant, go and have talking therapy. And that went on for five years, and I very much accepted, like, okay, maybe I have like chronic fatigue, maybe there is an element of like it is in my head. And then one day I changed my GP and I went for one appointment. I decided, right, I'm gonna speak up because when that GP said those words to me, it really shut down my own voice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I was like, maybe I am making a fuss, maybe this is all in my head. And then I thought, no, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna speak up and I'm gonna speak to this to this doctor. And yeah, within one appointment, they found out I had celiac disease, which is entirely curable, well, not curable, but manageable with a gluten-free diet. Yeah, and but because of the damage in my intestine at the time, it took probably about two years for me to fully recover. So it was seven years altogether, and I just as I was getting better, I sort of looked around at my life and realized how poor like small I'd been playing, and that I had not really wanted to speak up or make a fuss about things because really, because I'd been shut down before, which then kind of comes to the second pivotal moment, which was looking around at my life, realizing I'm actually really supporting my partner at the time's goals and dreams to go back to uni to kind of have his career. And I realized I don't want to do this anymore, and how much I'd been, like I said, playing small, how much I'd kind of been negotiating. And four months before we were due to get married, I decided to leave the relationship because I realized I wasn't gonna live for somebody else's goals and dreams and give up on my own, um, and basically be a secondary character in my life. I was like, no, I'm done with that, and that was a big part. I took the money that I was supposed to get married with that I'd saved, I invested it into a retreat, and that is that in Ibiza is where the speaking hub where my business was born. Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah. So I'd known already just before I went that like I want to do something different, I want to get into coaching, maybe something to do with speaking, but that's really where like the speaking hub was like the concept was formed.

SPEAKER_01

So it never crossed your mind to go back to the NHS. Do you speak to you? So I still do.

SPEAKER_00

So no, I do. So I I left my secure job and started locoming, which is kind of like like almost like a substitute teacher. Yeah. And they're running low, like on staff, they'll bring me in. And occasionally I still do it now because I just love, I do love them. So they'll say, Oh, we're a bit short at the moment, um, I'm on their books, and I will go and do some shifts and help people, whether it's strokes or actually um physical voice loss as well, maybe from straining your voice, or I've actually worked with somebody recently who had a paralyzed vocal cord and we got their voice going again. So it's something I still will return to because it's just such a big part of who I am and the and the work that I do, and I'm it's very impactful, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Like seeing the results and life-changing results, really.

SPEAKER_00

And the coaching industry is great, but it can feel like a bit of a battle sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So you're sort of like asking for people like, here's what I've got, like if you want some of it, come and let me know. And people will say no to you. Fine. But I do find them when I go into speech therapy, it's like there is no, oh, are they gonna say yes? Like, are they are they gonna want to come and you know come into my world? It's just uh here's here's I'm how I'm gonna help you.

SPEAKER_01

And it's because there's a need there, and I think um it's really hard, like, and it's the same with the work I do, is usually people come to us when they're when they're hit rock bottom, when and everything could have been avoided um before if you would have felt or seen the need or my value, what I can actually give to you and how we can change things around beforehand, and that's the that's the battle we have, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

I would agree. Yes, that's something you've experienced as well a lot. Yeah, yeah, and I think there's a lot of like proving like I have to prove my worth, I have to show, I have to showcase what I can do. And one of the reasons I left the NHS was because I felt it was very restrictive. It was like, okay, you've had a stroke, you've got, for example, slurred speech. Maybe sound a bit drunk when they talk. You can have this amount of session sessions, off you go. And although yes, they have improved, they're not still not back to 100%. And they would yeah, exactly. And I just found that really hard to sit with, actually. Um, I had a manager actually say to me, you know, you sort of have to, you have to feel good about giving a bronze standard of care. That's what I want to give and I want to give gold.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like this, and I think um a lot of years actually this held me back as well because you what I tend to overdeliver a lot, and um, and then you get disappointed if you don't kind of if you don't feel like that your work is being appreciated to the extent of what you feel like you maybe want it to be appreciated for. So it I I've I struggled with this for quite a few years, I'm I'm not going to lie, and I think it is due to because I want to always give like a hundred and fifty percent because I'm so passionate about what I believe in and what I do. And it sounds to me like you are you're pretty much the same, isn't it? It's so your work is so important.

SPEAKER_00

Why is it you do you think that you overdeliver?

SPEAKER_01

It's it's definitely a proving thing, absolutely. Yeah, I think none of us is um like safe from this. I think we're all engaging in this. We need to prove to ourselves or to people around us that we're worthy or that we can do it, or that what whatever that proving aspect is. But it's that it's definitely a proving thing, definitely, I would say that.

SPEAKER_00

And that's something that I definitely found in the NHS as well, was like going above and beyond. And then I actually burnt out and had and ended up off with sort of stress and like depression for five months, and it was during COVID actually, and this isn't something I talk about very much, but it basically in my team there was two of us, somebody left, so there was just me, and the number of patients tripled in that time because of COVID. Yeah, and I just kept thinking, like, what if if they had another speech therapist, would they get a better service of care? Absolutely, that was not the case, but I couldn't step away from that, and I just felt so overwhelmed in the end. I sort of had to have time off, which by the way, when I got back, we ended up with three members of staff, so that just tells you like how much the need was there. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, and I just sort of was like, I'm not gonna give a hundred percent, a hundred and ten percent all the time because I can't, but when it is your own business, it's so easy to fall back into that because you genuinely care about your work, you you want to help people, you want to do the thing and do it well. And there is that element of I feel like I need to prove, which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01

That yeah, but I feel like uh once you realize this this is what you're doing, which obviously is a process and it takes a bit of time, but I once I realized this and really realized what it is I really have to do to avoid this, to avoid this feeling of having to prove anything. And that was really working on myself, the relationship I had with myself, my inner voice, my inner thinking. Um everything else is falling into place. I've always I always say people need to, especially within business, we're pouring everything within our business, and we're kind of forgetting us, the people who are running the business, which then we're losing our voice. Do you see this often? Yes. With women you work in.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and it is very often women as well. So that's one of the reasons why I work with women, is because the stories like I feel like I overgive, stories that I've kind of experienced myself in terms of like, am I am I good enough? Like, can I deliver? It is something that is more unique to women than men. And I'm not saying that men don't ever feel imposter syndrome or don't ever feel insecure, absolutely not. But as women, we have unique challenges and strengths when it comes to that, and especially when it comes to speaking. Because if you think about speaking, if I say to you, go and stand on a stage and speak to 500 people, straight away you're thinking about all of those eyes on you. So any stories that you've been telling yourself, any narratives that you have in your head are suddenly magnified. So it might be that in a podcast situation, you're like, I'm good with this, it's one-on-one, like I feel confident in this area, but then you move into like the next level, maybe it's 50 people, maybe it's a hundred, and then suddenly those stories come back of I've got to give 110%. So you find yourself preparing for weeks, and then you get to it and you're like, I'm exhausted. So, yes, I say see that a lot. I also see a lot of fear of judgment. What will they think of me? Yeah, and that would be me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm not going to lie. And we had this conversation. I'll I have an insecurity about my speech, about my dialect, about like how I pronounce things because English isn't my first language. And I also tend to um go around circles. It takes me quite a while to make my point because I'm almost like internally overexplaining myself. Um, I definitely have an insecurity about my speech.

SPEAKER_00

And the over-explaining.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think some of that comes from the proving as well? Like, well, if I overexplained then I I'm showing my reasoning as well.

SPEAKER_01

See, for me, actually, I think because of what I do now is I do not in my mother tongue language. And when I came to the UK, I didn't speak a single word of English, and I found this extremely overwhelming and really, really challenging, actually, because I had an eight-week old baby and my husband was obviously working, but it was just me alone all the time, and not being able to speak the language was um actually quite hard for me, and it took me a good three years, I would say, um, really navigating this. So when I was in my head, I think funnily enough, I think in English, I don't think in German in my mother tongue, I think in English nowadays. But because my vocabulary, I suppose, isn't as expanded as um the if I would in if English would be my first language, I kind of struggle to find the right words to bring my point across. So I'm making it down to this. It could be the proving part, absolutely, but I would say in my head it's yeah, that is the reasoning for it. It's almost like talking around a subject so that you don't have to because you can't think of the word maybe, or I think it is because um and it it's not it's not a trauma response or anything like this, but people around me always make fun of me how I say things. Okay, and I am I can laugh about myself. I think I'm bloody hilarious. You are I mean I don't have an issue with this at all. However, I think if you want to go deep here, uh that's probably subconsciously in my mind because I can't say certain words, and certain words I say and everyone laughs, and I laugh about it as well. But maybe that's actually something within me subconsciously which makes me go around circles, trying to find the right word, trying to find a clever word or a cool word to say to bring to the point what I want to say, what I'm passionate about, probably.

SPEAKER_00

I just find it so fascinating because there's the the speech therapist in me who looks at like the science side, like how do we take words from our brain and actually articulate them to our mouth, and then there's the other side of like the stories we tell ourselves or the narratives we have and how that impacts our voice. So, for example, if you if somebody was sort of in their childhood told children are seen and not heard, that will follow you very likely throughout your life. So maybe then you don't in a coffee shop, if someone gets your order wrong, you're less likely to speak up because you have internalized speaking up is is dangerous or it's not safe, or I'll be mocked, or I'll be laughed at. And that's why I kind of love asking these questions, is I just love to understand the process behind it if, for example, it's then holding people back. So when people come to me, it's usually because they want to either get paid to speak or they're like, I'm actually getting opportunities, but I'm feel too nervous to go for them. And it's like, okay, well, there's usually it's usually three or four things that will be contributing to that. And I don't know if you believe in like the chakra system or energy, but like our throat chakra is sat between our head and our heart.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So if you feel like it's difficult for me to speak up, there's definitely from an energy point of view, something there. And then there's also the psychology side of it, and there's the science side of it, and I absolut I get really nerdy about it.

SPEAKER_01

And how do we pick the cycle though? Because I think I almost want to say it's probably a little bit of both for most of us, isn't it? Like when you talk about childhood, I just made me think about my childhood. I never was kind of um stopped of speaking out, I was more the other way around. It was almost expected of me to speak up. It might like in my head, my mum always said Katie can do it. That is that definitely like the theme between which we like which runs through my whole life, Katie can do it. And that pressure, obviously, and I do know has caused certain um reactions to uh within me, within my adult life, absolutely, and it took me a while to kind of recognise it for what it is and kind of work through this. But um, so I think there's always both aspects which influence our voices or how we speak out for ourselves or what we're struggling with in terms of confidence and everything else. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's very rarely one thing, it's always like I would say multifactorial, it's it's a different number of things usually that contribute. So, yes, I had my one experience like with the GP, but it wasn't just that that impact impacted on my speaking up. You know, it's several different things at school. For me, I was told I was too chatty. That was always on my report. So again, let you internalize that. Like you've got to hold it in, like, don't be too much, like be ambitious, but like don't outshine anyone, like be loud or speak up, but don't be too loud or too bold, don't annoy people. And that that and that was from really from school, just sort of like I was in all the the the drama shows, I was in all the dancing shows, but then yeah, there is a piece of you that you feel like you're holding back, and again it does, it impacts on our voice. And even though people will come to me, like, Oh, I've got a talk coming up, can you help me structure this talk? Can you help me write it? Yeah, great. And then you start to speak to people, and then they will start to say, Oh, I am actually feeling quite nervous. Oh, right, okay, what do you feel nervous about? Well, actually, like it's in front of a room full of like coaches I really admire, and I'm worried what they will think of me. And so it is like thinking about what are those stories that are feeding into that.

SPEAKER_01

So, what do you say when when women come to you and come to you, like we spoke, I would come to you, so and I said to you, I feel insecure about how I speak, what I speak. But do you think that actually this is the the reason which holds them back? Like what I mean by this is the reason women approach you for your services in their head and say, Okay, I've got this talk, I want you to structure the talk with me for me, help me to do this. Is this actually the one thing which will help them to do that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's usually there's something else underlying as well. And and you don't always realize it as well. Like as I said, like you can feel really comfortable, like I'm fine having a conversation, I'm fine doing this and that, but there's this new level, and they want to feel prepared. Yeah, and they also just want to do a really good job. Really good job. That's often what people say to me, I want to do a really good job. Can you help me kind of structure this? Like, can you help me work out what to put in it and sort of things? And you know, if you're working with someone for a short amount of time, you're not necessarily gonna delve into like so tell me all of your trauma stories. That's I'm gonna have it, isn't it? Yeah, and you might touch on some things, you might do a little bit of work on that. You might sort of do, I might talk some people through like tapping and getting prepared, and but there's just so much to speaking, like from like we always think our our voice comes from our throat, but it comes from our brain.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And now the before the action of speaking, there's the thought of what am I gonna say? And if that is impacted by thoughts like don't don't be too much, don't talk too much, of course it's gonna impact on how you speak. And then there's all the way through like delivery, how how do you speak? You know, how do you create that talk? And then if people want to, how do you get onto stages and how do you get paid? Because again, if you're on if you don't feel confident fully in your worth, how are you gonna ask somebody five for £5,000 to do a keynote?

SPEAKER_01

And I think this is a this is actually a really interesting piece because um, especially within the coaching industry, we touched up on this um before. There is this obviously, there is this uh thing of like free appearances. You speak for free because you want the exposure. There is obviously a method behind it and thinking behind it. But from what I have seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have seen, this has become much more standard than I would like it to be. Because I always I'm huge on cold operations and I love that, but I always say there is a time and a place to put your money where your mouth is. Yes. And actually pay people for their services.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree. If you're paying someone for catering and you're paying the venue, why wouldn't you pay your speakers?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I always tell my clients there's three reasons why I would say yes to free speaking. And actually, I I encourage free speaking as well. It's not don't ever do it. So the first one is are you gonna get photos or videos of you speaking that you can use as assets that's gonna benefit you? Fantastic. Next, okay, are you is it something that's aligned with your values? Like, is it a good cause? Yeah, great. And thirdly, is it gonna get you in front of your ideal audience? Because you can go and speak for free and still make money because if you're speaking in a way that really invites people into your world, your voices and your messages magnetizing them to you, you give them a freebie. Yeah, you get into a funnel, you can make money from it. So, but I do think there's a piece here around uh valuing women's voices.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And again, why wouldn't you pay your speakers if you're paying you're telling them to pay like charge X amount for their services, but you're not gonna pay them to speak because they've got exposure. Yeah. So it has to be a two way street. And actually, I heard recently there was a lot of places asking for women to speak for free for International Women's Day. And they were like, Oh, but it's for it's for a good cause, why can't you do it? Free. It's fits for International Women's Day. Why aren't you paying women for their voices?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I feel like, and I've been in one of your programs, and there was um uh one lady who was speaking about an experience um she had with actually a huge company.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Um, we're not gonna name the company, but it's a a huge brand. I mean, dropping £10,000 would be nothing for them. Um, not that she was asking for this, but point being, you would expect them to just pay for a service, you wouldn't expect to having to negotiate um your love, would you?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly, exactly. And I think somebody else in that group said, didn't they, that that particular company rely on the kind of goodwill of people to do it for free. And again, if we're sort it's one of those, does if it benefits you, you can put that name on your sort of experience. Great. But if we accept the standard, how will it change? How will it change and how will we make that? So it's very, very difficult because you want to benefit from the name, you want to benefit your business and build up that sort of speaking portfolio, but also like why aren't why aren't they paying? Yeah. Why aren't they paying?

SPEAKER_01

Why?

SPEAKER_00

That would be I mean, is that something you've ever like experienced? Like, has anyone asked you to speak for free?

SPEAKER_01

Do you know? Okay, I'm gonna fully out myself here. Um, I'm actually gonna do a free um speaking um experience in a few weeks. Yeah, but I'm doing it exactly because I'm in front of my target audience. I'm also doing it because I have been I know this woman personally, so we have a personal connection and we're kind of working together. So it works for both things. It's something local, it's my ideal audience, um, it fits nicely within um what I'm going to launch. So there is definitely an upsell, so to speak, for me. And also because I'm not really confident about my speech, believe it or not, it it puts me on the edge, it challenges me. It's my kind of probably an easy exposure to the speaking world.

SPEAKER_00

Does this make sense? Yeah, you're like building up your confidence. That's it.

SPEAKER_01

So this is this is my thinking behind it. So for me, this particular situation makes total sense.

SPEAKER_00

And I agree. And it would be a dis disservice to you. Like, as say if I was a speaking coach to someone and they have this situation, there's no way I'd be like, no, you should be asking for X amount of especially if you feel like okay, I feel really confident in this scenario, but thinking about speaking in front of a group of people makes me feel a bit nervous. Absolutely go and do it for the experience. Go and kind of try out materials. Almost like you know how comedians, stand-up comedians, when they have new material, they'll go into like local clubs and pubs. To try it out, do it, yeah, to try it out, do the same sort of thing. Like I think we're very much we see a lot of polished products, right, on social media. So we assume straight away we should have all of that. Yeah things like um speaker reels and all of this amazing footage of us speaking, but everybody started somewhere, yeah. Everybody started somewhere, so st it's okay to start somewhere, it's okay to like go and maybe fail or it go and go really well, or be like, people really responded to this part of the talk, they they didn't like this part. Next time, it's like everything you learn with experience, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And I think it's important as well because um it makes you actually refine your voice as well. Exactly. Because I think what I feel is interesting part of my story may not interest you at all. Yeah, it may be really boring for people to hear, actually, and then maybe even and I had this in a lot of conversations when I you know the conversations on the kitchen table when you just sit with friends or with people you just happen to be in a room and you just have a normal casual situation and they'll pick up on things about you which you never even thought about. I I'd had many of those conversations. I'm thinking, actually, I can't actually believe this is how what you see in me or how you see me, because I've never looked at myself from that kind of lens. So actually exposing in those talks that like free talks, that's that's quite a good good thing of doing, isn't it? To figure out what is actually interesting about my story or the thing I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we are in an era of storytelling, so storytelling is king right now, right? Yeah, especially in things like coaching. People want to feel connection to you, and even if you have a story that you think might bore people, the whole idea of a story actually is to hold a mirror up to somebody else. So, how can my story resonate with you? So you you may not have left a 10-year relationship, but you might have been in a situation once where you didn't feel heard. And it's about resonating with that, feeling connection on a human level rather than oh, here's this like polished speaking coach who you know never does anything wrong, and this and that, and this sort of pedestaled no, like you're a human first, yeah, and that's where storytelling comes into play, so you can resonate with people and you can try build trust.

SPEAKER_01

Let me ask you a question you probably didn't expect. Yeah, and I hope you're gonna answer it. In an ideal world, who would be not name, like what kind of woman would be your favourite woman to work with?

SPEAKER_00

Actually, I have a client that I'm working with at the moment who has been through incredible, incredible things, and what I mean by that, very traumatic things, and she has transformed her life, she's healed herself from these experiences, and now her mission is to help other people do the same thing. So she we're working together to create this talk so that she can empower other people to do the same and sort of release the feelings that come when you go through a traumatic experience. And how do you flip that feeling upside down? And she's quite new to business, so she didn't necessarily have a methodology which can help when you're speaking, yes, it's gonna help you go through teaching points. And we've basically taken that and shaped this like incredible talk, and she's so open to it. But it's the fact that she's willing to learn, she's open, she's come up against some real, like really visibility issues. So she's suddenly thinking, What if people think I'm stupid? What if they judge me? What if people from my past come and see me? But and she's worked through those barriers, and now she's seeing this like my fear is not as big as my mission. My mission is bigger than my fear, which is to help these people, and it's just been a dream, it's just been so easy in that we've picked out real parts of her story and been because she's healed from it, she can share it without trauma dumping, and that's a big word, isn't it? Yeah, without like, here's everything that happened to me. It's a here's what here's where I was, here's where I were, sorry, here's where I am now, and here's where you can see yourself in my journey and how I can help you do it in your own way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's another thing I think is people being able to see it and not have to follow your exact steps.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because it won't work for them. We have to find our own ways.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And especially in the coaching industry, I think this is a really important thing to realize because the narrative is people are following someone else's footpaths and um then get frustrated if it doesn't work out the same way for them.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And almost that sort of you can kind of get this indication that, well, if you haven't, if it hasn't worked for you, there must be something you're not doing. Yeah. And or is it more that well actually it just doesn't work for me? And this is what I say about speaking with or working with different people. Like what works for me is gonna work not work for somebody else. So rather than taking 10 women and turning them into like Emma style speakers, it's like, what do these women all have to offer? And how can you like raise that up and make it shine? Like, like, for example, introverts versus extroverts. Yeah, some people a lot people often think like you have to be really big and loud to speak, but you don't have to be the loudest to move the room. It's about if if you're an introvert, maybe actually it's that you don't speak the loudest, but after you speak, you pause. Yeah, and in that moment, your message lands. Maybe if you're extroverted, you've got you're full of energy, and rather than me telling you, like, sit stand still and just in one place, we work on your gestures and how you move across the room. That's that's what speaking is about, is it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's like what makes you you, and how do you get that to shine when you speak? Because it's very easy to fall into that very yeah generically here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do, and then you've got people who are all doing the same thing and speaking in the same way. Because our voice is so personal to us, right?

SPEAKER_01

So personal, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So then something I've learned like in speech therapy, people come in and be like, My voice doesn't sound right, and to me it sounds normal, but to them it's like it's a bit croaky or it's too high pitched. But also, like when someone's upset, how do you know if you can't see them from their voice? Yeah, true. If they're angry and they're in another room and they're shouting that you know from their voice, and so the voice is like the seat to our emotions as well as this like physical thing that we have, and it is so personal. And if you don't feel comfortable in it, it's gonna show. Yeah, and it's not it's gonna. I I've gone through a journey myself where I thought I need to show up as this professional like speaking coach, and actually, like the other side of me is really fun and like chatty and like a little bit weird at times, and actually, how much better is it when I bring that into my work? And people are like, Oh, this is who Emma is. She's not just this polished person who like speaks perfectly all the time.

SPEAKER_01

No, I forget words, like I can go off on tangents sometimes, but I know when I'm doing a talk, I know how to structure myself or have some sort of framework to help me organize my thoughts, and it also makes you so much more relatable though, and it attracts the right person into your world, the person you actually enjoy working with, and it's easier to work with if you're fully yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. People yeah, because people can feel that mismatch, can't they?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_00

If you're if you stand there speaking like a bit like a robot, or you're per this perfect speaker, everyone's gonna be like, wow. Whereas if you go on stage and you're yourself, maybe you forget a word or you're like, Oh, that came out wrong. Like, people laugh and they're like, I really like her, she's really relatable.

SPEAKER_01

I would definitely think I really love you if you forget about because I do it all the time. That that would just put me at ease in thinking, okay, it's not that bad, Katie. You can forget some birds when you speak, it's not it's not a big thing, not a big thing.

SPEAKER_00

It should be like perfect all the time. And that's not the case, like we're humans and we get distracted by things, or we forget you know, we forget a word, and that's okay. And that's the other thing as well, is it does you don't have to be polished and perfect. Like it doesn't matter if you have an accent or English isn't your first language. Like, actually, how individual does that make you? Because when someone hears your voice, they'll be like, That's Katie. Yeah, yeah, rather than like, oh, who's that woman again? True, yeah, because she sounds like everyone else.

SPEAKER_01

Just don't ask me to pronounce certain words.

SPEAKER_00

Fine, we can we can use other words. Or you have particular phrases or words that you use, like like maybe in your branding when you're talking, and actually the way that if think about like Jonathan Ross, right? Yeah, you can't say certain sounds or words, that's literally his trademark. True, and he's a talk show host. So I think it's about taking what makes you you and sort of use it to your advantage. If you feel it's a weakness, turn it into a strength. Like I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01

I definitely do this these days, and I always say I have my own language. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and if you really the way to know that we are close or that you really know me is that you understand what I'm typing or what I'm saying saying to you. But the speaking hub.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Let's talk about the speaking hub. Okay, how how can we work with Emma? How what is the speaking hub? Yes, what are your different programs? Because I really because I think a lot of listeners will be really interested in our episode and the speaking and finding your voice piece, and it's so complex, and we haven't got enough time to speak about every aspect. But I really, really, really would like everyone to know how they could work with you within the speaking hub.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so the reason it's called the speaking hub is because like the hub is like a center, right, for people to be in. And I what I'm building a community of women who like it's not about competition, it's not about oh, you can't have that speaking opportunity. I want it, it's about like raising each other up and empowering it. And you've been in one of my spaces, I literally have like a channel that's like collab with each other, like there's somebody on your podcast because you met them like through collaborate in terms of speak in terms of working with me. I love working one-to-one. I know in terms of scaling, you're supposed to go in big groups and scale up, but there's nothing I like better than working one-to-one. Yeah, that being said, I have got um a group that's starting called the siren speaker. So I talk about the journey from like the mermaid to the siren. Oh, yeah. So if you think about like Ariel from The Little Mermaid, she has that scene where she loses her voice. She gives it away to go on land and be with a man. It's a separate issue. And I talk about becoming like stepping away from giving away your voice, whether that's speaking for free, whether that's not speaking up, into the siren who's not the mythical creature that lures sailors to their death, like another woman demonized by history, shock. Actually, it's just somebody who uses their voice and magnetizes the opportunities to them. And so the siren speaker is all about how to become a paid speaker. So, what are the rooms that your voice belongs in? Who's gonna pay you? How do you write that talk, and how do you pitch it to people in a way that's gonna make them say yes as easy as possible? So they're the two main ways that you can work with me at the moment.

SPEAKER_01

So, anyone who's thinking about public speaking or getting started, that program would be the best way to start.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, yeah. And if you want me to come and speak at somewhere, like just speak to me. Like I said, there are there are times I will speak for free when I know for those reasons. Yeah, because I've had people say to me, I've actually said to someone once, why didn't you ask me to come and do a workshop? Like it'd be perfect for your community. Not in a like, why don't you just how cut and she was like, Oh, I thought you would charge. And I was like, You're offering me to get in front of your community, yeah. Fine, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01

Like, so but that's also the piece again, we're losing our voice because we're wondering what that other person will be saying or the rejection we may be getting. Because what's the worst thing that can happen? You can say, Okay, yeah, I I'll come, but I charge X, Y, Z, and then I may have to say, Okay, I'm really sorry, I would love to, but right now this is not within my scope. And that's fine, at least I ask the question. But the best thing could be that you say, I actually would love to do that for free.

SPEAKER_00

If you don't don't ask, you don't get. You don't get there's just so many things that have happened because I've I've spoken up and been like, Can I can I do this with you? Or what would it take for me to come and like speak at your event or do this or do that? Put yourself forward, like put yourself out there and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01

It's a hard thing to do though, isn't it, for most of us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's very much tied to like your voice. Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Emma, I asked everyone one question at a podcast, and I really would like to ask you this as well. If you could call back and could give younger Emma, Emma at the beginning journey of her entrepreneurship, one put a little piece of advice, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00

Stop trying to be like everybody else. Stop trying to do the things you think you should do and start doing the things that you want to. So when I started this journey, like I wasn't interested in a seven-figure business, and I wasn't interested in this and that, and then I got so caught up in the shiny objects in that I should be doing this program, this and this. Actually, I I want to work one-to-one with people. Actually, I want to go and do this and this, even down to what the things that I was wearing. Like, yeah, I was thinking this is how I should present, but actually, like, this is who I am, this is what I want to do, and you can do it your own way, and it's still be successful. But sometimes you have to work out how not to do it.

SPEAKER_01

I was just gonna say, you almost have to do it the way you think you should be doing it in order to work it out. It definitely was true for me. I know it was true for you as well, and I think that's a perfectly not to end this episode. I could talk to you for hours, and we probably have to do a take two at some point. Um, thank you for coming to the Unshakable Talks and thank you for having a chat with me today.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01

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