Shadow Work for Entrepreneurs: Why High-Achieving Women Still Burn Out with Suzie Cuthbertson

In this episode of Unshakeable Talks, Katy is joined by shadow work expert and founder of Subconscious Couture, Suzie - also known online as ‘ShadowB*tch’ - for a conversation about shadow work, capacity and self‑abandonment in business. Together they unpack how your disowned parts quietly run the show, why so many high‑achieving women still hit burnout even when they’re ‘doing the work’, and what it actually takes to build a business that doesn’t just look good from the outside but feels genuinely sustainable on the inside.

Key Takeaways:

Your shadow is running more of your life than you think.
Shadow parts are the pieces of you you’ve shut down or disowned to survive, from the people‑pleaser to the performer to the victim. Until you bring them into the light, they keep quietly dictating your decisions, relationships and business results from the background.

You don’t need to kill off old versions of you to grow.
Trying to bury past selves and old identities just creates more shadow and more inner conflict. The real liberation comes when you let those parts back in and start working with them instead of pretending they’re not there.

Most women are leaking capacity long before they hit burnout.
You can restructure your diary and hire more help, but if you don’t address underlying patterns, you’ll keep feeling maxed out no matter how much you change on the surface.

Healing work that keeps you circling the past isn’t enough.
There’s a difference between endlessly processing and actually shifting - insight alone can leave you sitting in your story, whereas deeper shadow work is about moving emotions through and changing how you show up now.

The strategy that really moves your business is who you’re willing to be.
When you stop compromising on your own energy, stop diluting your edge, and allow yourself to be as weird, wacky and wonderful as you really are, the money and momentum become a byproduct instead of a constant uphill push.

If you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with Suzie on Instagram @suziecuthbertson.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Undertaker for Talks with me, Katie Schweiger. This is not just another podcast. This is the girl's chat for business women. I'm going to speak to women in business, and we're not just gonna have a normal conversation. We're speaking about what it really takes to build a business, to scale a business, what are we not doing business, and what are the real challenges, what are the things number one actually talks about? What are the things which are holding us back? And what are the things which are really driving us to do what we're doing? So I believe running a business as a woman isn't humble, but it is different. So it's time we actually start talking about it. Let's get into it. In today's episode at the unshakable talk, I'm going to speak to Susie. You may know her as the Shadow Bitch, but she's also the founder of Subconscious Couture. And this conversation is all about shadow work, capacity, and what it really takes to create a business which doesn't just look good but also feels incredible. Welcome to the unshakable talk, Susie. I'm super excited to have you, the Shadow Bitch herself. I want to start by asking you what is shadow work? Because we had conversations about it, and you know that I don't know much about it. And I really would like the listeners to understand what it is you actually do.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

So I'm so excited by the way. So shadow work for me, there is old traditional methods, and there is what we're pioneering going forward, which is very different to what's been, and I want to explain that to you because that's the thing that is really um changing and paving the way for a lot of people. But every single one of us lives with shadow parts inside, and our shadow parts are actually just built up from our psyche, which are areas that we've decided for whatever reason we just shut down and suppress. So whether we were younger and we had big trauma, even little trauma, whether we were told we were too much, whether we were having to fight in a household of like maybe domestic violence, chaos, um, and in order to survive, we have to adapt different personalities. That's just a survival mechanism. That's how incredibly clever we are. And so as we do that, we go in and we start building these characteristics, these traits, which then can become our shadow parts, which we needed them for a certain power like period of time. But because for whatever reason now we're looking at them as wrong, so one of the parts we've talked about, Katie, is a prostitute, we disown her. We're like, I don't have that. It's you know, there isn't no part of me that bends for other people. There is no part of me that would lose my sense of values for someone else, and actually that's not true, right? We all have those parts within us. And so what happens over a period of time is people just keep burying it, burying it, burying it, and those shadow parts are subconsciously running our system. And so shadow work is simply bringing them to the surface. I like to call it conjuring of the shadows so that we can actually see the parts that are driving us subconsciously, and these shadow parts are creating everything that you see around you. So your reality right now, even though you don't know it, Katie, will be part of what you do know, and a lot of it is going to be 95% of what you don't even know yet. Yeah. And so what I love about this work is it's so much deeper for a lot of people that have done kind of inner work where they finally can see whether it be the prostitute, whether it be the codependent, whether it be the victim, whether it be the child actually has been running the show. Um, I often say people in politics, you can see who's got all their shadows out on the stage. It's so clear once you do this work, you can't unsee it.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

So you within the shadow work, you're resurfacing obviously your different kinds of shadows. What do you actually then do? Do you work on them to uh acknowledge them to know that this is what you're doing, um, and to bring awareness to yourself that this is just why you're acting or reacting a certain way, or this is where it's kind of comes from, or do you work on actually eliminating them? Because I would like to think they're probably always part of us, always part.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

So elimination is never, never gonna be. I always say this to a lot of people. I've heard people say, I'm gonna bury, I'm gonna have a funeral for my whatever past self, and da da da. And it's like that's the problem, that's where you create even more shadows. Because how can you bury something that isn't part of who you are? Which is why people say I can't let go. Well, of course you can't, you're not supposed to let go. What you're supposed to do is you're supposed to let in. And so most people won't let it in, they keep fighting with it, like in your inner parts, it's like your whole energetic system's in conflict with itself, and yet when you finally find out the awareness piece and you want to bury it again, yeah, you've it's like it's the the you know, so so for me, it's about liberating that shadow part, it's about like a reveling in the shadow part. It's like um a lot of the work that I do is controversial for that reason because actually, rather than sitting there and just healing with it, which we do, yeah, there is part of you that has to be like, I'm a fucking prostitute and I love it. I absolutely love that part of me that can manipulate people. I love that part of me that can get whatever she wants. It doesn't matter that I have to bend and fold, I will still get what I want no matter what. And it's actually people's acceptance in oh my god, like the shock of that I've been conducting my life like this, yeah, you have. But the funny thing is, the more that you accept that that is what you've been doing, because um the less of you that actually plays out that role. So most people most people think it's um you know, sitting there and just an awareness, it's not that because the more that we accept it, the less it wants to, it's like a child, the less it wants your attention, but it becomes normal, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

It's not that we subconsciously kind of have to fight against it or for it or anything, it just becomes your normal.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

It it becomes the fact, Katie, that you just get to a point where you're like, wow, my and this is any way I can describe it in a lot of um clients' ways, is their capacity is expanded because they're not they're no longer fighting.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

We spoke about capacity a little bit, and I think capacity is about um we actually decided we really wanted to speak about this on this episode because it's something specifically as entrepreneurial women where we have to juggle so many other things as well, we struggle. And um, I I definitely I I'm quite aware of my capacity nowadays. I would like to think, I'm probably not if I would work with you, but I like to think I'm quite aware, and I know when I reach my capacity and where I have to kind of make adjustments and how I um live my life or do my day or do certain things to kind of allow for that. But I also know from the women I work with that this is a major issue within women. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that women struggle with this particularly?

SPEAKER_03 6:55

I think it's really interesting because there's part of this which will be the subconscious, which will come to. Then there's also look at where we are right now. Like, there's never been an age where you know, take if just roll us back to 50, 60 years, yeah, where one of the primary roles was just being a caregiver. That was it, and now we're caregiving, we're having families, a lot of people that like later on in life, we're career, we're in a massive career, usually, and then on top of that, we're now in this period that I love to call carerhood, which is we're then sandwiched and looking after our family. And so before we had to do one thing, yeah, and now the opportunity's opened up for us, which hallelujah, praise the Lord that it has. We are now having to cope with all the other demands.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I was just about to say when you said hallelujah, didn't we not ask for this?

SPEAKER_03 7:44

As women, we asked for this, it and thank God, you know. But to be fair, we the conversation we shouldn't have even had to ask, but anyway, that's a whole nother not a subject we shouldn't have to ask. Um, so for me, yes, but then on the flip side, what's happened is all the other areas haven't been adjusted, so we've just taken more and more and more and more on, and that has seen people where they haven't got balanced skill set, yeah, topple, like literally just go into overwhelm. And then we're trying to keep up, so we're like, right, I'm trying to keep up with a good career, and I want all the like my my high income and I want an incredibly successful business, but I also want a family and I want to be the best mum that can be, and I want to be a present wife, and I want to do this, and I want to do that. And I'm by the way, I'm not saying men don't do any of this, but actually, again, the roles were very defined previously. I do this and you do this, and now it's like actually we both do this, and I think we're just coming into this point where it's only like 50 years, 40 years in. Yeah, where actually, as genders, we're still trying to find our way. So without even going into the subconscious programming, yeah, which by the way is really deep. Literally, there's the top of the iceberg, yeah, and then you go further below into programming habits, what you watched your family do, what you watch other people do, and then starts the whole where you and also what you're consuming yourself, like what you consume yourself determines how you feel about things, how you act, how you do things. Always, and then and it's like, and also on top of that, social media, so you're like seeing what everyone else is doing, you're like, wow, they've got this perfect life, and they've got this thing, and I'm here to say newsflash, they haven't, um. Um, and it's it's like then you then you've got the comparison, so you've got the part, the shadow part of you that is going out there to literally that's the child, by the way, going out there to compare, then bringing it home into oneself, taking up more of our capacity now and energy with draining maybe 10% of our battery on the comparison of why we haven't got our shit together like Sally Ann up the road. And it's all just shadow illusions, and so a lot of capacity I always say to people is there there is this massive actual economic piece that how we've changed as generations and how industries is caught up, and how we're agenda, so there's all of that, and obviously, I come from a HRD background, yeah. So I've saw this all building behind the door, and then there's this other part which is driving us every single day that isn't allowing us to stop, it's not allowing us to actually work on this so that we can input more, we can take on more, we can hold more, and so we're not doing this, so we can't hold anymore.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

So, what is that part of us which doesn't allow us to do this?

SPEAKER_03 10:23

The part of us is we don't even know, like for instance, like you said, I think I'm really good with it. So I sort this out, and if I'm feeling a bit busy, I do this, and it's like you're just working again on the iceberg, you're working again on the things that you can see, like I'll organise my diary and I'll structure my week, and I'll da da da da. But there's a piece of you that energetically could hold a lot more, but you wouldn't know it because you haven't even looked at what that part of you is. So I'll give you an example. If you have more of a codependent um archetype as a shadow, you might not even know right now that you are needing to be needed so badly by whether it be clients, whether it be your job, loyalty to them, that actually that in of itself is already overriding 25% of your energy system every single day because you are going to do everything that you can to stay in that relationship. You don't know that's happening. Yeah. And I found myself like this in corporate career where I literally I had no idea how much of my identity of the code was actually attached to that workplace. So I was leeching all this energy out every day to be loyal, to be, you know, the best, and da da da da. And I had no idea that was driving me. So I was sorting my diary out and I was sorting this out, and I was getting my you know um PA to do all this stuff, and I'm like, why do I not feel any better? Why do I still feel like shit? Why is this still keeping me awake at night? Because actually, my body was trying to tell me you're self-abandoning over here and giving yourself away, and you can't see it yet. So we're gonna keep giving you migraines, anxiety, panic attacks until you finally go resolve it, and then we're gonna show you with illuminated colours, yeah, what capacity actually is and what you're leaking.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

But is there another way though? Because I can relate to this, I've been there, I've done it, I worn the t-shirt, and obviously at the time you actually don't realize what's really wrong, and you and I always say, Um, you may probably change my mind today with this, but I always say I almost felt like you have to get to this point to realise what's going on, but is there actually a way to not get to this point?

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Absolutely. So I always say to people, Katie, if there was someone that was talking about this more when I was in my corporate role, I might still be in the corporate role. Yeah, you know, I live.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So you've done incredibly well in the corporate role.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I did incredibly well. I absolutely loved the company that I work for. You know, it was in fashion. I built that company up.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

And so for me, if I'd had the like acknowledgement, like I was having leadership coaching. Leadership coaching, if you're doing, I'm gonna call it dry biscuit leadership coaching, is literally dry biscuit and it doesn't get you juicy slow and it doesn't make you you're operating on what I call like the top of the iceberg. That stuff is great for day-to-day management, it's just it's just basically helping you cope.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

But it's just too universal, isn't it? It's just general, just it's not like we're not all the same. We can do the same job, but we're still in so so different. We're walking a similar path, but there are different challenges, there are different things. Like our psyche is built differently, so therefore we are reacting and doing things differently, see things differently. So, actually, all of those programs are not really suitable for us individually to make a deeper change.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, and you know what we talked about this, didn't we? We said about the whole thing when you get to the point where you just break, where you literally go, I cannot cope with any more of my bullshit. And either your body breaks, your mind breaks, some part of you does, and then you go seek. And I've actually always been proactive, like I have never just waited for things to fall apart to go get that like I've I've just always been that way, but it did get really bad before. And what I didn't realize, there are so many other tools available that are like you say, they're not surface level, they're much deeper, they get to the root that actually stop you from carrying out what you're doing day in day out or your pre-programming. And so for me, the you know, like, do you do you have to let it get that bad? No, do the majority of people let it get that? Yes, why? Because we're not talking about it now. It's the lack of knowledge, isn't it? It's the lack of knowledge, even in this day and age, it's the lack of knowledge. I mean, when you went, like when you had your like fuck this shit moment, like what did you do?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Well, my fuck shit this moment, like fuck this shit moment was I was I was um very low, so I didn't I had to I started therapy, so that's what I that's what I did because that was my initial well that's all I knew, like it's like okay, it's sad bad, you need to go to therapy, like you need to do that, and that's what I'm gonna say about this, Katie. I did um I must say it it it did help me. Yep, um it did help me, but I it wasn't the holy quail, it wasn't just the one thing I do. I always say you have to, and it's the same with like the work we do, like anything, any coach you hire, any program you do, anything you do, you actually have to implement. You actually have to do the work, you actually have to go deeper, like deeper on the iceberg. You can touch up on I I feel like therapy brought awareness to me. It kind of pointed out the blind spots because when I had my first um burnout and I was in hospital and I was sitting with the neurologist because I was admitted with a suspected stroke. I spoke about this before. Um, it wasn't a stroke in the end, and he said, I don't have to say that to you, but you have to slow down, you have to regulate your stress. He didn't call it regulate, and I said, It's really easy to reset, but I'm running a company here, I've got 45 members of staff, I can't just not go to work. And also, there was this aspect of um the internal financial pressure I put on myself. I put a lot into this business, not just financially, privately, like my time took taking this away from my daughter, like all of this. I can't just say, Okay, Katie needs a rest, Katie needs like a holiday or something. It wasn't an option, so this what they said makes sense, of course, but I just couldn't implement it at the time. So my solution was to make changes within the structure of the business. Because I thought I thought certain things within the business, for example, my staff was really what what I struggled with, just the behaviour of the staff there. That was my big struggle. So I made everyone self-employed because my solution was if you're working self-employed and are not on the payroll, you're gonna put more effort into your work, you're not gonna call in sick every single Monday or Friday because you want to have a long weekend, like all of those things. That was my solution to that problem, and that worked for a little while, but not the long term.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

I love love love this because I totally and we were very similar. We said about the neurology appointments, yeah. And I remember when I first had my first, I'm gonna say first bout, same thing, so it had a stroke. Yeah, isn't that funny? Yeah, and obviously, no one actually even at that point had said stress to me.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

No, my one did. He said you had a I think they called it a migraine over, and it's apparently very common in women, and it's usually stress-related. And it has a similar symptoms, like my whole left side of my body was paralyzed. Yeah, I couldn't use my arm, my face was drooping, so it had all symptoms, my speech was really slurred, I couldn't speak properly. So all the symptoms were there from a stroke, that's what I initially thought is a stroke, but he did point out the stress part.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Do you know what? And I'd love to say, like, to anyone that's listening to this, because I know that even if I'd heard this back then, I would have been like, thank God. Like, and I'm not saying I'm not medical, but that is the thing, but what I'm saying that the amount of ailments that we can get, and that's just our like from where you get to that point, the amount of ailments that start triggering in your body, um, the amount of massages that you might be going for right now, the amount of spa treatments that basically are not gonna work. Um, I the Don't say this. They make some relaxed. I you know when I know that I'm invoidance, when when something is happening inside me again, and I'm like, okay, a bit of work needs to be done. Yeah. If I am wanting to book, I go for a massage every other week, like that's just like a healthy practice. Me and my husband actually both do that. He go, we go every other Thursday. Um, but if I'm wanting to actively start booking stuff like that, I know it's avoidance. Yeah. And I'm like, right, there's something in me that needs to actually be sat with right now. And it's amazing what five minutes silence.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Oh my god, I love it. Just five minutes silence.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

People think, oh my god, I have to work, and it's gonna be like 15 months in therapy. No, five minutes silence to just ask yourself like what part of me is seeking attention right now, and what is it you want me to know?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

I actually do this in general. I do this in the morning with my coffee. I just want silence. I take that time, have a coffee in bed, and just check in with myself.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yeah, there's a check-in in, and then there's a literally, you know that feeling, Katie, where you just know that there's something a lot deeper than there is there is something like, for instance, um, it could be that actually my relationship is stale with my husband. Yeah. And my stomach is turning right now because I've been putting this off and I need to have an awkward conversation. And by the way, the awkward conversations can be the most incredible conversations because they can just be the the quick, like whatevers that bring back um the juice into a marriage. It could be that your stomach's turning because actually there's somebody on your team, um, and Litch had to help a client with this only about three months ago, massive shakeup, six-figure shakeup, where uh her stomach was telling her every day that she had to provide for these people, and actually she hadn't used any of these people in over six months. And yet there was a loyalty to them, a loyalty to their family. This was a codependent shadow that she had running, and so funny, her stomach was telling her that, but yet she did not want to sit in to tune into that. Um, she could journal on anything you give her, but when it came to actually what is the part that needs resolving, it was I need to do something about this, I need to step into my sovereign, I need to be an adult about this now and take control. And so five minutes can actually change the trajectory of where you go if you allow your body to actually intake that question into the deepest parts of who you are. Most people always say operate from the neck up.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I was just about to say, what does this actually mean? Because if I would be listening to this episode, and I've been really honest about this to you as well, it I'm really drawn to this work, I'm really interested in it, but it doesn't really make sense to me a lot of the times. Or makes sense is probably the wrong thing to say, but where do I start? Like it's there's so many aspects, like how do I like where do I start? Like from my start was going to therapy.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

So that was my start because it's just what we all speak about, isn't it? Oh, yeah, you struggle, you need to go to therapy. Um, but where do you start? Like, there are different shadows, I understand this, and it make when when I hear you talking, it makes so much sense to me. And I'm definitely I I can definitely see myself in those those things, of especially in the past. But where do you actually start?

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Have to learn. It's like anything, it's a bit like therapy. Um, it's like trying to explain the journey of someone on a therapy journey. It's like, well, how can you? Because that person, we all start at different points, right? But the first part is the foundations, yeah. So the first part is literally starting to understand the psyche, the human psyche, as Carl Jung put it, you know, where those splinter points broke off, why you decided to splinter them, and then start to compartmentalize them into, like we said, with the archetypes. Yeah. Then you can start seeing um in the programme that I run, I have a blueprint, so everybody's got a shadow blueprint, like every single person on the Planet has a shadow blueprint. And so you might run more on um a codependent child. Um, I'm gonna say saboteur, right? That might be your black blueprint. So your job then is to learn everything that you can about those personality and character traits, why they developed, where they stemmed from, and how. And it's not um, like in therapy, we talk about the the this is what happens, and it's basically a lot of therapy is just coping. Just coping. Yeah, and it's talking, it's going around in circles because it's not about forward moving, it's about letting you sit in it. Whereas this is about here's what it actually looks like, here's why you develop the intricacies, and from there you start to leverage the shadows and how you're operating in today, just really forward moving, it's rapid. That's why I call it rapid. It's a rapid moving process which gets you into action and out of the past. Most people use the awareness piece just to hold them in their past selves, hold them in the past, and like a lot of blame, a lot of shame, a lot of resentment. And it's like that's brilliant. And actually, therapy is excellent, but sometimes it leaves people sat with the emotions. Shadow shadow work like shifts you um through those emotions, that's the difference. And so when people say, Well, how like where do you well it's it's like anything, you've got to study it, you've got to actually go through the process of it, otherwise, again, it's just um it's it's the top of the iceberg again. It's like let's just do a surface level version of this, and that's why you know when you say about the question and where do I actually go to, it's like, well, how would I even know to go that far? Well, you'll you'll know to go that far once you've actually gone through the process, it's impossible without it. It's like without like saying I've never done therapy and expecting someone to be able to have awareness, they can't, yeah. But explain the therapy process well, it it's so varied, isn't it, for whoever goes on that process, depending on where they start.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

So I know that you're not just work working with any woman, you are. I mean, and and I actually I love you for this because there's so many people out there who just see the money and what someone could pay you for your services. But my feeling is about you that you are not like this at all. I think you you move fast, I mean you move incredibly fast. Um and for you to move fast and actually get the results with someone, there's a certain type of woman you have to work with. So I almost imagine it that you have to have a certain uh amount of awareness already before coming to you to actually get results, specifically in a rapid way.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

So the answer to that is so interesting. So, yes, when you when you say that, thank you for seeing that, because actually that is factually true. I made a promise myself long ago that I'd already sold enough flesh for money, therefore nobody got to get my pounds of flesh anymore. Yeah. Um, and so the women that I work with, yeah, no, I have people coming at really like deep con levels of consciousness who have done a lot, but I also have other people that are not, and they're just they're literally open to anything and everything, and they're just ready to absorb. And so I work best with women that are either that or that. If you're somewhere in between, if you're not really, you know, you're wanting to dabble, if you're not really wanting to go that deep, um, then absolutely that middle ground for me is an absolute no.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And there's a commitment piece, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 25:26

There's a commitment, but there's also like I've had people who are really committed and they're still not very open. And it won't work. Yeah, and it's not even just with um Kate, I'm saying it's not even with the shadowist, with like with business, yeah. Even strategy and adopting a different way of thinking and a bigger, like blue ocean way of viewing. If you can't adapt that, and if you're quite narrow in your field and you don't believe in the field of possibilities and you don't believe in quantum um shifts, yeah, then absolutely this won't work because that's the that's the fields that I play in. So I feel like the rapidness is actually in the work that I do, because actually there's this um thing in the industry where you know the client does the work, and yeah, they must do the work, but we also got a role too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so my work is the rapid piece um of taking them through the process. Yeah. So even if you haven't done this work before, my job is to do that for you quickly. Um, and the other thing is actually I wrote a post about this the other day, and I had quite a few people message me off the back of it was I refuse now to slow my energy down for someone else. I saw that. I work fast, I love fast, and I have so many projections of oh, but if you do that and da-da-da, and surely you feel burnout, and I'm like, no, this is this is actually my energy makeup, this is my DNA. I've been gifted this. Yeah, this is an actual gift. I used to actually not think of it as a gift because I would be constantly trying to change it for the people that were in the room. We've talked about this before, haven't we? Yeah, yeah. Trying to adapt yourself, and it's like, no, I work like this. If you want to come on board and you want part of this, brilliant. But if this is not to your flavor or liking, or you want to slow down and you wanted to take things very slowly, um, it's a bit like dating, right? Yeah, so there's gonna be a partner out there for you that is gonna want to date and take slowly and get married to you in 25 years, um that's just not me. And I've worked out, thank God, that the less that I have trying to adapt myself, the the quicker things have turned up in my own reality for myself as well, in what I've been able to achieve in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

It is it's very true. Like, once once once you are like understand what you're really here to do and what about what you really want to do, and don't compromise anymore because you compare, or you feel like you need to fit in, or you feel like someone else does it differently, and this is the way to get to that point, things move fast.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Yeah, and you know, so interesting when you say that use that word compromise. We are always compromising, right? This is coming back to shadows all day. We're compromising with our child, we're compromising with our codependent, we don't even know it. So so, and for me, it's like we compromise all day long internally so much. Why the fuck should we also waste energy compromising externally?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

But some people would call us quite selfish or self-absorbed or whatever whatever that word they want to use. So, what would you say to Dallas women?

SPEAKER_03 28:24

I would say it's really interesting because actually it's the opposite because if I am I'm gonna say internally already in conflict and already compromising, and you are asking me to compromise more for you, yeah, who's being selfish?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Uh me.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Like, so if all of us actually just worked on our genius, worked on our gifts, like literally followed the path, and uh spent more time doing that than actually caring about what everybody else thinks and compromising our values externally, the world would be a better place. End of story.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

And so we're full of now world of people who are resentful because they're not getting what they want out of it, they're not able to speak up, or they are able, but they won't. And so they take that out on the next person. And we talked about this just upstairs in Katie about when you change, when you evolve, when you rise, and other people actually take umbrage to it. Other people get so pissed off with it. Yeah. Not, I'm gonna say for the majority of people that's not true, but there will be a part who their shadows are clinging on to your shadows and do not like to see that your shadows are actually rising. They're actually we're not in shame anymore. We can talk about the fact that this happened to us when we're a child, we can talk about the fact that I literally have nothing in my closet that is scary anymore. And when people see other people like that and they are still clinging on to their closets, they're still clinging on to their shame, there is always going to be a fallout. And either people can decide that they actually don't want to compromise either and join you on that ride, or they can sit there and compromise with their internal and their external all day long, and nothing will ever change for them.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

It's very true, and I see this all the time. I mean, I think throughout my life, specifically over the last couple of years, um, there have definitely been my circle is tied really strongly.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yeah, well I've seen you say that, Kate. So you talk about that because you always say, like, my circle is tight, and actually, as I've grown, I've seen people fall away. Yeah, I've seen people rise with me, but I've also I've seen people, you know, that I didn't think would um like leave me, and actually they have. Yeah. And I've been shocked. So, like, tell me about that, because I obviously don't know lots behind that story.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Um, I I definitely am someone who always probably peeper policed or tried to pee per police. Well, I was someone who's been told always I can do it, like Katie can do it. It was definitely a performative aspect of me. And I've run my first business, I definitely run like this. Like I started something, there was no option to fail, like to fail uh within me myself. Obviously, I see failure very different nowadays than I used to, but that's only because I had to go, like I went through that process, and I was always I I think I always had I don't know if it was shame or what it was or which shadow it is, but because my I I thought people thought I had to live my life a certain way, and I went against the coin, i.e., worked, for example. Um, not many women around me worked. Um, my husband has a very good job, so that financially there was never a need for me to work. I chose to work, so I always called them a little ego trip, but actually thinking about it, I'll always let that help me back and apologize for that. I'm working amongst my peers in my circle. I've never really shouted loud and proud about my work, so I think this was definitely how it happened. Once I started shouting, yeah, people are dropped away, and it really stinks the first time, it really hurts the second time, the third time it's less, and now I don't give a fuck. I really don't. And there was in the beginning, I really I recognized there was a lot of um resentment I felt when someone dropped away. I think why? What did I do wrong? Or how dare you? I put everything into this friendship, and just now because I can't meet you every Tuesday for coffee because I'm kind of busy, I'm working on like my dream business here. You're kind of stepping away. So in the beginning, there was definitely resentment, but now I don't even have resentment. I don't even most of the time, and it happens very rarely now, but when it happens, and it happened beginning of last year, there wasn't even a conversation we had. I just stepped away. I didn't give it the energy to have the conversation. There didn't for me, there didn't need to be a conversation, it is what it is. I didn't give it the energy, there's no hard feelings. So if I see that person, I can be cordial. We have we're gonna have a good time, we can have a drink together or something, but you are not gonna be in my inner circle. I would never let you come close to me the way you had you were before. And the same is within the industry. I let certain people because I'm just I love people, I love like having people around. I love I'm quite I feel like I'm quite nurturing, I love taking care of people, um, and I'm always have good intentions. So I let certain people within our industry more into my life than others, and it wasn't the right decision, but again, no conversation, no hard feeling, no like bitching about her or cryptic Instagram pulse about that particular person. It's just not part of my life anymore.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Do you know what's so interesting when you talk about that as well? Because so many of my clients go through this when they upgrade their identities, it's like a massive not just with um like it could be family, yeah, it could be any parents, it could be anyone. And all you did, which I love to describe is all you did was you retracted your shadows from theirs. And when that other person hasn't got anything, they literally, like you said, there wasn't even a conversation. Yeah, they felt sometimes you know it's like I walked away. Actually, no, well, they felt the retraction of the shadows, and they thought, I've got literally nowhere to go with this now. Yeah, because they're not gonna give me what I want. That relationship would have been built on some form of need, because it's all like a human need, and they've already their shadows have already identified that they can't manipulate anymore, they can't get, they can't, whatever. This is how clever this is at subconscious level. We're sitting here, we don't have to do anything, yeah. And I'm already like, she's not gonna be available for this, this, and this. I'm gonna go over here. It's actually how we pick our partners, okay? And it's like it's how we pick our partners, it comes from like human needs, it's why some people say, Oh my god, I married my dad or I married my mum.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Well, I picked my partner Magalouf in a nightclub, so I'm not sure which anyone wants to tell me. That channel was working good.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Oh my god, Magaloof or uh we need to just have a conversation about that. Not for today, views. Um but yeah, so that's how like we we we attract in, and it depends how much work you've done as well. So normally it's the you know, if you're in the first relationship, second relationship, as you start evolving as a human, you start working out what works, what doesn't work, what you want, what doesn't want. Some people unfortunately never work that out, so they keep making the same mistake over and over, connecting like shadow attraction non-stop. Um, and some people just get really clever and actually realise that what they're doing doesn't work. They do this bit here that we were talking about, and they accelerate their identity to the point where anyone that's doing that as well is is highly attractive, right? It's magnetic. Yeah. Watching, I mean, watching a woman rise and watching her truly step into is so fucking sexy. And yet most people won't admit that because their shadow will like want to take that part down.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Well, there's a negative tint to being sexy, isn't it? Like, or to something being sexy.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Yeah, but then again, that's like what's happened to you in the past that's made it that way. Is it comments from your family? Is it your religious upbringing? Is it your whatever else it is, and whatever else that is, because we are so different, we're wired so differently. It's like when you can unpick that trigger, when you can actually understand that um that part doesn't get to define your viewpoint unless, of course, you want it to, you can start to really appreciate the level of effort and work that humans have clearly undergone to get to where they are, you know. When I see about like underdogs and people that have fought adversity and everything else, the the the audacity, the tenacity to have to get through that, the grit and getting tingles for me, and I've gone on my own personal journey with that, I can only do I can't do anything else but literally be in awe of that person. Anyone that's not in awe, it's funny, I read this like many posts around money, and like anyone that gets triggered by it is like clearly because they don't have it. But it's like anyone that's not in awe of that person that's gone on that human development journey needs to go look at what it is that they need to work on for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

I actually think it's the hardest journey you go on because it's so unpredictable, like especially within business. Like, I feel like business is quite predictable, most parts. Like, there's strategy, there's like solutions to any kind of oh, none of my business is being predictable, Katie. No, I know but the running of a business can be quite predictable, but personal development is like this is this can take you anywhere, isn't it? And speaking of this, obviously, I don't I I would like to say I've done a fair amount myself, uh, to definitely get into the point there. I do know I need to do more and something else. So I'm coming from my perspective here, um, and I'm sure people listening feel the same. So when you when you have done a fair amount, and then you feel I have that feeling like I need to do more just for my next kind of level. Um, and this time I'm coming from a place of actually positive development, yes, rather than shit. I need to sort out this shit. But what is it? What would be my next step? Because I see, and we spoke about this. I'm really drawn to kind of uh your work, but um what would be the next step? Because there's so much out there, it's so oversaturated of things you can do. Um, and in my head, I don't have time to do all of this. I also don't think there is a need to do all of this. There's not need like because then I've got to spend my life doing this and nothing else, which I definitely don't want to do. But where do I start? What would you say to me, other than obviously coming into your world, which I definitely will be at one point? I know, but in general, where do you start? Like someone like me who yeah, wants to knows they have to do some more, but what is it?

SPEAKER_03 38:48

I think it's a really good question because, like you said, there's so much out there. Yeah, and I think first thing I just want to like to anyone that's listened to this that's done those work. Now, I've got more letters after my name than most people, and I'm obsessed with educating, I'm obsessed with um doing the work for me, I'm obsessed with doing the work with people. But my my first thing is you need to obviously have a desire, like a real desire, not a need, okay. Like you said, not the the oh my god, I need to sort this. It's like there's a desire. I also think there's another part which you said is for me, I've never not been learning in learning mode with this stuff. And the reason being is for me, I'm this is master, this is life mastery, yeah. So you either are gonna be a woman who's gonna turn on life mastery, or you're gonna keep getting top-ups every a bit like Botox whenever you need it, which you know what, that that can work for a lot of people, but I'm I am devoted to this. Um and so I think it depends on which angle you're coming from. And then I think it's the case of a bit like PT training or anything else, you don't like if you stop doing the work, you notice a difference within three, four, five, six weeks. And so for me, it's always having something, some sort of um infrastructure around like how you operate. But if you're talking about like what would be the next thing for me to learn or for me to go do, or I think you have to go to the work that you're called to. There is something called intuition for a reason, and when we are drawn to something and we're feeling actually that feels really cool, or I'm quite passionate about that thing, and that feels like a good thing, then you're gonna take a lot more in from it, you're gonna like energetically be able to work through it. And but but the first thing for me is there needs to be a dis a real desire because otherwise, then it's just like, well, I'll just go shopping and I'm just gonna- It's also my almost like a sticking plaster, isn't it? Yeah, or I might or I might just get a dress, but do you like do you desire it? Like, is the question? Because if not, it's just another thing. Yeah, you know, we see this a lot, man. You know, it's just like another, it's just another thing to do. It's like, well, actually, maybe it isn't a good time for you to do. And I think for me, for most women, you know that your edges are still untapped. Yeah, so my women come to my world and they're like, Susie, I just know there's more. I am literally itching right now, but I don't know what I'm itching for. Like, I feel this energy around me, or this pull, or this thing. And I already have visioned X, Y, and Z, but now I'm like, oof, I need that opened up. And for me, that's where the where the real magic lies. And so it's really just asking yourself, like, what part of your journey you're on? Like, what is the thing that you would love if you could master? You know, is it, you know, could be family dynamics, could be actually for me, it's like working on the family. Yeah, it's like that's that's my next port of call because actually parents are getting older in this and I want better relationships with people. Um, is it actually, you know, one of my clients is like, right, I recognize I want to work more on the fact that it's just me and my husband, yeah, and actually, kids are gone, and our relationship isn't the best, and that is feeding into my business. So, actually, I want to work on that. So, I feel like you have to choose what part like with your life will yeah, and what is gonna really accelerate your life, your time on this planet, let's say in the next 12 months, if you were to learn that thing, and how would that enable you to like live better? How would that enable you to breathe better? How would that enable you to sleep better at night?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

That's what I'd say. Would you say, because you touched up on like working on your relationship with your parents, like your family life or with your partner? See, you've done a post recently, and um that really resonated with me because this is everything I stand for in general. You um I can't recall the exact wording, but you basically touched up on that founders nowadays starting to recognise that it is the best strategy is actually being in love and in peace with yourself. 100%, and that's really where my where I see my calling, where I really see every everyone needs to start by this. It doesn't matter what business strategy you're gonna apply to your business if this piece isn't like good, and if you haven't got that nailed down, nothing would work.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Nothing works, and I'm gonna I'm saying nothing works, you can easily get to multi-six, seven figures, no matter what. Oh, yeah, but it's but nothing feels good and works. Yeah, and if you're doing this to you know, if you're on a life where you feel good, work on that. Like I wish I'd realised that in corporate I didn't have a great relationship with myself. Not that I knew that, no one would know that externally, because I had incredible teams, and I went on the journey of when I eventually left, was all about the corporate, it was all about how I manage myself and leadership and da da da. So I never really touched on me, I touched on the external stuff. So I left there, opened up business, and when you are faced with yourself in a screen every day for pretty much 24 hours, because as entrepreneurs, we take our work everywhere with us, right? If you don't like what looks back in that screen, yeah, you are gonna have a really fucking rough ride. And so I had a rough ride. I had a really rough ride for the first two years of my business because I wasn't showing up, I wasn't able to be visible. I think I said this to you before as well. I literally um couldn't even do a live. I couldn't even though I'd spoke in front of like 400, 500 people on stage previously, when it came to my own business, none of those skills seemed to transfer. And I was in a state of shock. And actually, what I was in shock at was more, and I didn't know this was going on, that I wasn't allowing myself to be me.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

And then I had an internal relationship which basically just was in conflict and beating each other up all day long. Because one part of me was like, just show up. The other part of me was like, No, you can't, they'll see you, um, and they'll see through you, and they'll see everything, and they'll know everything that's happened to you in your life. And it was the most illuminating, it was harrowing. And most business owners that I speak to have had this same journey. Yeah. So we've realized, oh shit, it doesn't matter how much I pay someone, doesn't matter, no one's gonna do this work for me, and I have to start treating myself as the number one priority, and it isn't gonna be how I launch this thing, it's not gonna be the funnel, it won't be me going live, it will it will be none of these things actually. It will be the conviction in the fact that I'm a fucking good person, yeah, and that I'm really shit hot at what I do, and that energy is what actually will the everything will explode, which is what I've seen with my clients, what I've seen with me, but it took me two years of bh like solid graft, and by the way, I continue that journey.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

I think that journey never stops, never it will never stop.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

It never stops, and I'm happy that it won't stop because the more that I do this every day, the more that I evolve.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah, it's a life mastery you which is the first mastery. I would love to talk to you for ages, but I have been given a 10-minute warning, I think, 20 minutes ago, even that it's going to happen. I think we have to do a part two and three, but I have a few fire questions for you, if you don't mind, if you could do them. Um they're probably covering some things we didn't have time to talk about. Let me get my sheet because I can't remember them. Right, okay, so you walked away from a global accredited coaching uh business because of value misalignment. Most women would have stayed, they would have compromised and made it just work, like we usually do. Yep. Do you think women find it harder than men to walk away from something they've built and what is actually stopping them?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

So there is part of this that is actually primal. It's part of our brain is made and wide differently to men. Okay. Where we literally are there to care and look after everyone, right? That is just part of from like literally billi millions and millions of years. And so we still go into our work and our business and everything like that. And for me, I definitely found the struggle. I wanted to stay loyal to the person that I was with. I wanted to keep providing for the people that we were paying um copious amounts every month. I wanted to do it for the students. I even had people messaging me and writing to me, and surely you could like keep it open, and surely you could do this, and surely, because we love your da da and there gets to be a point where you've got to look at the greater good, you've got to look at why you're on this planet, you've got to look at the bigger picture. And even in those moments where right now it could be easy to continue a multi-six-figure business, easy, easy. Is that what I've been put here to do? Is that gonna be the legacy that I leave behind? And these are all the questions I had to ask myself, and so the answer to everything was no, no, no, no, no. It's gut-wrenching, but because it wasn't just a programme, it was our entire business, it was our entire infrastructure that I thought and had aligned with at the beginning, but clearly had gone off piste and self-abandoned. We talked about this, yeah. And so for me, yes, women find it hard to let go, and there's a real scientific reason for this, but there's another part which is that um I just think we're in this incredible um period now where we're starting to ask, yeah, we're starting to ask for more. And actually, if we're being really honest with ourselves, um, we've got to understand that sometimes business isn't about emotion.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

We have to separate it.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

We have to separate it. It's a hard part. At some point, we have to separate and we have to actually treat it like a business. Um, but if it isn't with our life goals and our legacy plan, then what what are we even here for?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Very good point. Next question. Shadow work is obviously your speciality. But do you think there's a risk that personal development, that the personal development world uses concepts like shadow work and inner child healing to keep women endlessly processing their past instead of actually taking actions and moving forward?

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Not sure. And the reason why I'm not sure with this is shadow work actually isn't widely available, so it's not a big thing yet. Yeah. And rapid shadow shifting is rapid. So for instance, most people come and do rapid shadow shifting and say they've had 40 years of therapy and yet they haven't moved once, yeah, and they're finally moving forward. So for me, if you want to sit in it, if you want to like circle around it, if you want to be in the whatever, this work, the work that I do is absolutely not for you. Yeah, so I don't sit with anyone in it. That's why it's rapid. Do I think that there are works out there that will? Yeah, but I also feel like there has to be responsibility for the fact that there are so many people since the pandemic specifically, you know, I've been doing this work for well, well over 25 years in terms of human development. That's what I was trained in. Um, that unfortunately went into this machine of like, oh my god, I need to find out my whole life now, it's 2020 and existence might be over.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

To sitting in healing sessions, getting addicted to the healing, getting dopamine hits from the healing.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

That's such a fair point.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Not being able to come out of that healing. Whose fault was it? Who knows? Chicken egg. Bottom line is we all as humans have choice to step out of the dopamine hits, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Yeah, we can't have to take responsibility for all.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

I have to take responsibility. And I and I still see people like five years on that I know that are still in the healing circles, still singing, come by all my lord, to each other. And I'm like, it infuriates me by the way. This is not moving you any further, and if it's not moving you any further, what are you gonna do about it? And so I feel like that question is all dependent on who actually is sat around the table. But bottom line is it doesn't actually matter what the problem is, the the the actual result, the resolution to it is as a human being, we must make um choices. And if you choose to sit in a healing circle and you're not seeing your life move forward, you've got to ask yourself at what point are you going to actually get out of it?

SPEAKER_01 50:54

I end my podcast always with the same question. I would like to extend it to you. So if you could give Younger Susie one prudently honest piece of advice about business, what would it be? Oh my god, why did you not tell me this before I did?

SPEAKER_03 51:08

Did you tell me this? I didn't my shadow just wanted to block it out so that I could be put on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

She fucking loves it.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Um in business specifically, I would be saying take more fucking risk. Like be more crazy. Like the thing that you think is like really fucking weird, yeah? Yeah and that people will disown, or the tool that you're gonna develop that is absolutely crazy. And will people get it? Do that thing and do it quicker than you even think, because we have to work at things, we have to see if it's gonna work or not, and we won't know until we do it, right? But for me, it's always the weird, the wacky, and the wonderful. And I say this all the time. That is the thing that paves people to millions, and people think it's the generic, it's the you know, formulaic, it's the linear, it will never be linear, by the way, just FYI to any mathematician, any person that loves spreadsheets, it's never linear. Um and I'm not saying that you don't support the linear, but if you're gonna rely on that and look around you and try and adapt to everyone else, you are literally gonna fail faster than you know. So for me, it's literally do the thing that you're here to do. The quicker you lean into it, and the quicker you're honest about it, and the quicker you really lean on those desires, the more enjoyment, the more fun, the more everything, the more money as a byproduct, the more you're gonna uplift humanity.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

I love that you said money as a byproduct because that's how I see it, and I think that's really important for people to realise. Thank you for coming to the Unshakable Talks, Susie, and I hope you're coming for part two. I would love to come for part two, Katie.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Thank you for listening to the Unshakable Talks. Please make sure to give us a follow and come back next week for another great conversation with another amazing woman. But I also want you to come to my event I'm hosting very soon. If you like listening to my episodes, if you like meeting the women and putting on to the unshakable talks, you will absolutely love my event because you're actually gonna be in the room with the women from the popcorn of women who do similar things. Tickets are only £10 and everything goes for telemetry. And telemity I chose them because it aligns fully with the values of the Uncheling of the Talks and with myself. The link is in the show notes. Get your ticket now.