How to Stop People-Pleasing, Perfectionism & Overthinking in Business with Nikki St Paul

In this episode of the Unshakeable Talks, Katy sits down with Nikki St Paul, business coach and Good Girl Slayer, for a conversation about the subconscious patterns so many ambitious women are still carrying into business. Together, they talk about how people-pleasing, perfectionism, overthinking and the need for external validation keep women small,  and what it really takes to move with conviction, back yourself fully, and build success in a way that actually feels true. 

Key Takeaways:

Good girl conditioning follows you into business.

The habits that once helped you fit in can quietly turn into people-pleasing, perfectionism and overthinking that keep your business stuck.

Conviction matters more than getting it perfect.

Nikki shares how real growth came from moving before she had proof, trusting herself, and making decisions without waiting for certainty.

You do not need everyone to understand you.

A big part of growth is being willing to be misunderstood by many so the right people can fully see and trust you.

Pivoting is not failure.

Changing direction, refining your message and starting small are often the exact moves that create momentum, and that momentum only happens when we position pivoting as opportunity, not failure. 

Celebrate what is already working.

Nikki talks honestly about how overachieving can rob women of joy, and why recognising your courage and progress changes everything.

If you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with Nikki on Instagram @iamnikkistpaul. Nikki also has a free event coming up, Reclaim HER live. Get one of the few remaining tickets here. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Unshakeable Talks! If this episode helped you, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode, and leave a review to share your thoughts - I love hearing from you. 

Follow me on Instagram @i.am.katy.schweiger and @unshakeabletalks for updates, behind-the-scenes moments, and to connect with our unshakeable community.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Untaker for Talks with me, Katie Schweiger. This is not just another podcast. This is your girls' chat for business women. I'm going to speak to women in business, and we're not just gonna have a normal conversation. We are speaking about what it really takes to build a business, to scale a business, why we are doing business, and what are the real challenges? What are the things number one actually talks out loud? What are the things which are holding us back and what are the things which are really driving us to do what we're doing? So I believe running a business as a woman isn't harder, but it is different. So it's time we actually start talking about it. Let's get into it. On today's episode of the Unshakable Talks, I'm speaking to Nikki. Nikki is a business coach but also known as the good girl slayer. And what that means is she's taking you from being a good girl to the convicted woman. And you really have to listen to this episode. Welcome to the unshakable talks, Nikki.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited about it, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Like me too. We're gonna have such a good conversation because you are the con the convicted woman. But before we get into this, I wanna take it a little bit back and wanna tell the listeners who was Nikki before.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Hmm. So now I'm referred to as good girl slayer. Yeah. And in order to slay the good girl, I had to have been the good girl. Yeah. But it's almost it's uncanny because I didn't even know that I wouldn't have referred to myself as a good girl. I just thought that's just who I am. And it's only sort of looking back and realizing the detriment that can come when you are subject to good girl conditioning, to rules that don't serve you. And I was just this person that just always wanted to fit in, and I didn't fit in even visually, physically, because I went to a school where I was the only black girl in the entire school of over a thousand pupils, so I clearly stood out physically. And imagine you want to fit in, but you physically don't fit in.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah, that's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

And also I was so much taller than everybody else. So not even just in my sort of skin colour, skin tone, but just size. Yeah. And I had glasses, and if anyone knows, national health, free glasses, plastic things, like so everything that I wanted to blend in, there were just things about me that I couldn't change in that moment and didn't want to change now looking back, um, just meant that I stood out and for the wrong reasons. And I think because of that, there was this desire to blend in my opinions, my my thoughts, what I liked, what I didn't like. Because I thought, well, if if I can't do anything about the fact that I'm taller than everybody else, I'm wearing these glasses, I am black, like that's just who I am. Okay, I'm just gonna fit in. If they like my little pony, I do. If they like that, I do. Even if I might have literally hated it.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Right. So that was just who I was growing up school in in school, um, and that continued throughout sort of high school, and then you've got sort of those awkward teenage years when it's you're trying to figure out who you are, but then you're still trying to blend in as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Because we have to, don't we? Because if we're not blending in to a certain extent, life gets really hard. Yeah, and it's still the case in adulthood hood, it's still the case now, it never ever goes away. So you you've just learned to blend in at from a very early age, and you've continued that that behaviour pattern you created stuck with you for so long.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

100%.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

But it didn't it, I feel like it can go in two ways. A lot of the times um I speak to women where this really held them back in life in terms of achieving anything, and they really entered a really low face within their life. But that wasn't the case for you because you had a successful career in the pharmaceutical um field. So tell me a little bit about this.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, I sort of fell into that career actually. So went to university, um, got a job, I was there like temporary for a period of time, a large pharmaceutical company that I was working in, and then I just ended up staying there for a decade, progressing through sales into training, marketing role. So I was there for two decades overall and did really well in that career. I almost think that I could have done so much more. So even though I did well, I think that some of the beliefs and patterns I had to get my head down because that was culturally um something that was very, very prevalent. Get your head down, your work will show for itself, which is absolutely nonsense. Um, but that's how I lived. I thought if I work really hard, everybody will see it. They'll they'll notice it, they'll figure it out. Needless to say, they did not figure it out, and I would see people who would be progressing, doing less, but shouting about what they were doing. Oh, there's so much more, but they were actually not doing very much at all. But and then and then I sort of figured it out. I was like, wow, I've got it the wrong way around. It's not get your head down and work the hardest, it's actually be more strategic and yeah, do the work, but be um prepared to shout out about your achievements, and that's now why I'm so big on like celebration and talking about things.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, you you are you are so big on this, and I absolutely love that about you. I know you for quite a while, and I definitely have seen the progression um in this with uh within how you show up for yourself um over the last 18 months, I would say. Yeah, it's been a huge um improvement. So, but obviously, coming from this career in pharmaceutical, you almost had a catalyst moment when you were made redundant. Yeah. So tell me about this moment because that was your catalyst in doing what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, 100%. I don't think um, in fact, I I pretty much know that if I hadn't have gotten that opportunity as I now see it, I would have just been either in the same company or would have moved to another company. Um, because it was just comfortable, yeah. It was a very, very comfortable existence. I got paid really well, I had like um car, all the packages and benefits that you could ever imagine. And so, why would I leave that to go into the uncertain? And the other thing is growing up in my family and in my circle that I could see people didn't own businesses, people just had good, honest jobs, whether that's like in banks or in healthcare or whatever it was, and that was just what I saw, and so it would never have occurred to me to think I could be that person who would run their own business, and so it just it just didn't ever occur to me. It's only that opportunity was like, oh, I've got a little bit of breathing space because I just had a cushion, essentially, and I was able to sit back and go, hmm. I don't know what it was, I don't know what made me slow down because I was one of those people that literally ran a mile a minute. Yeah, but for some reason I felt compelled in my gut to just take a pause. I didn't apply for any other jobs, okay. I didn't um put my CV out, I just thought something is telling me to sit back and think about what's next. I didn't think business straight away. I was like, let me just sit and think about what's next. What was next? Well, at first I then decided to do a few courses, not because I thought it would get me somewhere, but because I actually thought, can I do something for me? Like something that isn't like I'm gonna do this certificate to get paid more and to get the next promotion and all of that. So I did a um breath work qualification because I was always quite an anxious kind of person, and I thought that that would really help me, and I was interested in it. So I did that. I did a mindfulness meditation, like I literally was just doing things because to I don't want to say find myself because that's like really cliche, but that is looking back, but you helped yourself with this as well, you learn something to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Obviously, but if you've been an anxious person, the path work for it's a natural fit, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, 100%, and so the mindfulness fit in, and then I decided to do a coaching qualification because I'd been a line manager for years in you know, in my previous corporate career, but had never taken any sort of formal coaching qualifications apart from like the odd one or two days that they send you on in the company, and it's not anything in depth, but I loved supporting my team to to rise, and I thought, wow, imagine if I could do that for other people, and I never imagined like what it would turn to, and I literally have been lit been putting one foot in front of the other for like three years, like and it's been I I didn't have some grandmaster plan.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

It's been a crazy vibe though, hasn't it? I think that is an understatement.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I mean, I wasn't walking in your shoes, but I've was watching from the outside, and I definitely saw that you've been taking one step at the time, and I absolutely loved this about your journey because so many of us trying to skip the steps. Um, so I love that about you. But let's go back to the um trying to fit in, trying to kind of just do what we know we should be doing, what people around us are doing. That sounds very much like people pleasing. Yeah, 100% to me. And I know that you you see yourself as a recovering people pleaser or like an old people pleaser that was very much you, wasn't it? That was part of your identity, which was very prominent.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah, I think it's it's a key, and I think a lot of people, if they've been awake in society, they probably have picked up so many of these similar patterns and behaviours. It's just that it's comes in a different costume and it's dressed up as like just being kind, just being considerate, just being diligent, just being hardworking, but actually underneath that is something a lot more sinister, yeah, and it comes into business. And so for me, the um the people pleasing element has really it's one of those things that I don't think it doesn't go away. But the more you uh uh move forward in business and you and you take yourself to an edge, it's like it shows up in a different format. Yeah, you're faced with a new challenge. So one of the things that I talk a lot about is it's not about it never turning up, it's about you being so sharp and so able to bring it to a level of consciousness that you can actually choose with intention to go in the opposite direction to what your patterns and behaviours tell you. That is winning, not that it never turns up. If it never turns up, it means you're probably staying way too comfortable. Yeah, you are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the difference, isn't it? After doing the work, you can spot those things and you can actually move in the almost in the open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. But so we went from the good girl to the convicted woman, and you actually developed like five archetypes of the good girl, and I would like you to really talk to me about those because I think it's it's genius, and it makes so total sense when we had uh one conversation about this. But I would really like you to talk about this in a bit more depth for the audience because I think a lot of women will see themselves in either one or two, or maybe in all of them.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, wonderful, thank you. And I think this has been one of those parts of your body of work that you only really name when you look back on it. Yes. Because the five archetypes that I'm about to share with you are five faces and five different ways that good girl conditioning and behavior can show up in your life and in your business. And so the way that I see everything is when we are slaying a particular part of good girl, we are not just saying let's get rid of that, we're saying let's also embody the empowered version of that. It's almost like two sides of a coin. So one side is the good girl archetype that I'm about to share, and on the other side is okay, well, if we're not that, what are we? Oh, we are an empowered version of that. So the first archetype is the permission seeker, and that is the people pleaser all over. She seeks permission for literally everything, even if she knows deep down what is the right thing to do, but the more that she does that, she actually knows less about what is the right thing to do because she loses touch with what she really enjoys, what she really wants, and underneath all of that is uh an erosion of confidence and conviction and certainty, and those are the very things that you need in business. If you are uncertain, if you lack belief, if you lack this sense of I am so passionate about this, and you feel like you're wavering, nobody wants that. They go to the next person, so it does impact you. So when you are this permission seeker, you follow all rules, you don't question any rules. If your mentor earns more, she must know better, she says that's the way to go and build my business, or that's what I must do. This trend is happening, I must follow that, and you don't even you end up building this business and this life that actually you don't even recognise. Um, and so the permission seeker, the opposite side of the coin is the trailblazer, and the trailblazer is the one who actually realizes that it's she's always gonna be able to figure it out. Yeah, it's this ability to realize that no matter what the outcome is, I can figure it out, and I'm gonna get more trust in myself when I actually take action and prove that I'm still surviving after I did that thing, even if it went horribly wrong. So it's like it's it's the opposite of I'm gonna question rules, I'm gonna look at is that rule serving me? Does that way of building a business in life align with what I want to do? No, okay, I'm gonna do something else. And that is super powerful to have a person who's able to have almost like discernment, really. It's a fancy way of saying discernment, so it's like I'm gonna blaze a new trail. But the bit I want to say here is that the trail doesn't have to be um revolutionary, the trail doesn't have to mean I'm changing the entire makeup of the industry. It can literally be a small tweak, a small veer to the left or right. That's a new trail.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I actually think we truly believe it is very often just a very small trail. It's just those little changes we are making, this those little subconscious decisions we are making in the moment to do it a different way or to maybe go a little bit more right or left. Yes. On our journey, which make the biggest impact.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

It is those micro moments, those micro shifts, and that is essentially how we progress in life by doing little by little each day. So that's the permission seeker, the trailblazer. Question rules, learn to have more trust in yourself and realize that you're not always going to make everybody happy. So the trailblazer is the one who is willing to be misunderstood by many, to be understood by the few.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

It's me.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Like it's like, are you willing that a whole host of people may not like what you have to say? But you know that when you say that in its truest form, that your people, people that you're meant to be here to support and serve in this world are gonna literally lean so far in and be so into you that it's all worth it.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

But it's really hard though, isn't it? 100%. Because I feel like this is almost like the the hardest, yeah because you you almost run into this to leave everything else behind.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, and I I think an a good example is niching. And I've had this conversation with a lot of clients around they know deep down that they want to serve this very specific type of person, but like, well, what about all the other people? Like, listen, there's a lot of the people that you want to serve, and if you try and serve everyone, you try and be for everyone, you serve no one. And I get that we all know that, but when it comes down to it, it's it's harder. So the second one is the chameleon. The chameleon is the one who just wants to blend in, wants to like not even be seen. It's like you know, 50 little blackbirds all on a line, but then there's this yellow bird, yeah, right. And the yellow bird, who's that? That's the siren. That's the one that's like, I am willing to stand out, to be bright, to be to be loud or to be quiet. It's not the person who swears like a trooper if they don't. Yeah, that's blending in, actually.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

That is blending in, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Because if you're like, well, I see this seven-figure coach, she swears like a trooper, so that means I need to swear like a trooper. If that's not you, please don't do it. It's very inauthentic and it feels weird. Whereas the siren is like, I'm really well spoken, I I I I don't swear. I do, but I'm just saying like for other people, right? But if it's like knowing who you are and being willing to be that, whatever that is, and the other really important thing is being willing to change your mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes, I really learned this. Yeah, very learned this. Um, I I pride myself now that I I'm quite easily being able to change my mind, but it's still it's still something which sat really sour with me for a long time and I had to admit I don't I can't actually tell you why that is, it's just maybe it's because um I'm quite often right. If my family's listening to this podcast, they're gonna they're gonna say, yeah. Did you hear that? Did you hear that? No, but I am I am quite often right, and if you're then being proven wrong, it's almost like it's like no, yeah, this is how I feel, and I think it's a you have to almost separate on how you feel about something than what it actually is, and it's a skill to learn.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Yeah, it's definitely is it's like story in fact, it's like with anything in business, taking it to there, it's like okay, if you look at something and you're not happy with the outcome, a launch, a decision that you made, an increase that you did, whatever that you've decided to do. The important thing that I teach in my work is separating story from fact. It's like the fact is eight people were there, that's factual. Nobody's arguing with that. What you decide that means about eight people being there and not 80 is a different thing. And I think for me, it's like what you were saying about the change in your mind. It is almost being able to say that as I grow and evolve, I will change my mind. Yeah. And when you do that, I think, Katie, what happens is you can actually be more um you can be, you can move it at a quicker pace. Oh, absolutely. Right? Because you're not like, well, what if I what if I decide to launch this offer or put this product out, this service? What if it doesn't well it doesn't matter?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Because also in turn, you then don't seek permission subconsciously from anyone else. And this I think this is probably what it what it is for me, because we're speaking a lot about the online um industry. I was completely new to the online industry, and I found it really hard to navigate. I've had because I'm quite real. I I have like a real view about business. I've come from a different business background, and a lot of things didn't make sense to me. They were very fictional, very like pulled out of thin air. There wasn't any I don't I'm trying to find nice words to say about it, but but then my conscious uh clicked in where I'm thinking, you're selling some an illusion to vulnerable people here. So then my morals kicked in, and I'm like, but I can't say this because maybe that's maybe I don't understand it, maybe I don't not have the facts about it, and I make a wrong statement, then I'm gonna be judged on this. There's a whole lot of emotions which come with this, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Yeah, 100%. And I think that um when you think about this idea of changing your mind when you're able to know that I can change my opinion, I can have contradictory opinions because we're very complex beings. Oh, yeah. It just means that you don't spend so much time faffing is the only way that I would just say, right? And I just because you just move on.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, yeah, and it it's almost also the interesting part about society and as us as people that we are so different, and we can only have challenging conversations, for example, if we are able to change our mind, yes, and be open to seeing a different perspective, so that's uh it's a super important skill to learn. I'm not saying that I've never was able to do it, but it's definitely something where I had to struggle because I also, do you know what I also struggled with? And I think we talked about this before. But because changing your mind is probably a problem that a lot of people have, um, specifically when you've been conditioned all of your life to think a certain way or to act a certain way. Um I think in order to change my mind, I have to ask questions. Yeah, it's that's how I work in terms of understanding something. I need to know a different perspective on things. I would like to have the facts or would like to understand where you're coming from. Um, why you're trying to convince me that what I'm saying is wrong and it should be different. But I almost feel like nowadays in society you can often not ask those questions. And this is where I've noticed in myself I held back because I felt like I can't ask certain questions for whatever reason. Um so I'm not gonna change my mind on this because Yeah, which is a shame.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Which is why I like I like to create spaces where we can ask questions. Me too. Um and that then just makes for so much more richness in our environment. Like we've literally got one life on this planet, and it's like I want to I I'm happy for someone to change my mind. Right? And and and I I'm the kind of person that will own that. So I used to host a rest membership about a year ago, or less than that now, and now I'm completely it's not that I don't think that you should rest, but what I do think is that there's a lot of um opinion out there on the online space about people who have achieved success, and they suggest that it's done in this sort of soft girl, you know, sort of approach. And I felt that there was an element of how I saw things that was almost feeding into that, and I realized that if I want to achieve something, I'm gonna have to work really, I'm gonna have to work hard, and I'm not gonna be able to sit on a hammock and swing all day for a while, right? And I and so that was a bit of a realization for me, and I owned that publicly as well. So I realize I haven't got down, but it's like the the third um archetype is perfectionist versus um the the visionary. Yeah, so the perfectionist is like, need to know all the steps, gotta get it perfect. Clearly, she procrastinates, she delays things, you know, things often she then feeds into her lack of confidence. On the other side is the visionary. The visionary is like, I know where I'm going, and I don't need to know exactly how I'm gonna get there, and I'm okay with that. Yeah, so then she is able to make so much more progress, accelerate further. And then I think the fourth one from that is the is this woman who's like a superwoman, tries to carry it all, do everything, not ever really seek any support, advice, and always try to carry everything on her back. And the opposite of that is the empress, the one who's like uh doesn't sit back and do nothing, obviously, but realizes that she's regal inherently and realizes that actually her worthiness is is means that she can and should seek advice, support, community, sisterhood, whatever that looks like for her. And that's important in the spaces that I create. And then the fifth person is the overachiever. This is another big one. The overachiever is the one that's like I always feel behind. I'm never enough. Even if every milestone I set in business is achieved, I'm on to the next. I don't even celebrate the fact that I wanted this for four years, I've got it, and I'm on to the next. And you think it's like ambitious, it's not actually helping. Because when you constantly feel inadequate, it's like, wow, where's the joy? Where's the appreciation? Where's the gratitude? So the overachiever feels like behind and not enough. The opposite of that is the icon. It's like I'm gonna relish and celebrate every single step, even the stuff that's about like that isn't visible to other people. It's my courage, my inputs, and that's that is what gives and literally causes this domino effect that I've seen in my own business in the last four months from from doing this.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Would you say like every single archetype you described, I can see myself? Not necessarily now in the present, other than the icon, the empress, but um throughout my journey, throughout my life, throughout my business uh journey, which has been long, um I can see literally see myself and every single one of them. Would you say that this is very common within women, or is it usually like one or two of out of them who are presented more often in the women you work with?

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Thinking about the women I work with, there generally is what I like to call like an arch nemesis, like an Achilles heel. Like one or two of them will be present and around even now in your business.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

And the job that I see for me is to figure out how is that showing up in your pricing, your decision making, your marketing, your messaging, your client spaces, all of those things. But they probably will, as you say, have been able to recognise themselves in all of them at some point, and in the future they can turn up in a new costume. Yeah, but it's always tends to be one, maybe two that are the ones that we're focusing on. And that tends to be, I've noticed so far, like the uh permission seeker and the perfectionist. Yeah. Um, and sometimes the overachiever. I would say those three are the ones that I talk about most with my clients and the ones that I see in myself as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

So let's go back to your business because you just said specifically in the last four months, there has been a huge amount of growth within your business. Um, you are someone who has definitely pivoted uh within your business. So the way see, I love pivoting. I think pivoting is essential when you want to grow of growth. Nothing is linear and straightforward, but there's a lot of people who see pivoting as like, oh, you can't make your mind up or failure or anything like this. So, how does this sit with you? Because you have pivoted, and the way I look at you is if you wouldn't have pivoted, you wouldn't have sit here now, it's saying exactly what you're saying, standing for what you're standing for. So for me, that is a huge sign of growth, and in it in the most positive way.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Um, so tell me a little bit about how that was for you. Not a little bit, actually. Tell me in detail.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Okay, of course. I think we've got to go back to June of last year. Yes, please. So that's what almost a year ago now, 11 months ago. I can't believe that. That's that's quite wild. June was a moment where I'd been in business in total about two and a half years, and to be honest, I just carried a lot of shame at that point. A lot of shame that I thought I should be further along. Like a lot of shame. Um, like even think about it now, just makes me quite teary just to think about. I just constantly thought, I was like, why am I not further? Like, I need to be further along, everybody else is further along. I've invested so much time, so much money, um, put in so much effort, and obviously now I look back and some of the effort was in the wrong places, but that's not the point. That's not the point.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

You still put effort in, you still you weren't sitting on the sofa eating crust and drinking Coca-Cola, you were other drinks are available, but you you were putting the craft in.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I really was, and I think I got to a point where I was like, okay, there's a crossroads now. I have to either figure something seriously out, something has to change, or I need to go back and get a job in the corporate space.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

So let's sit with this for a second. I'm saying that makes me feel like Yes, because I want to sit with this for a second because I hear this all the time. And I just had a friend a few weeks ago saying to this to me when I actually made a post out of it, and she said, I feel like I need to get a part-time job at Marks and Spencer's. And I said, The only way you and me are gonna walk into Marks and Spencer's is to get picky bits, not a job application. And but I've also think, and I know for a fact, we all feel like this at some point. Yeah, there's always this moment where things don't progress as as fast as we feel like they should, or or an unexpected hurdle or uh comes up, and we think, what the hell am I doing? I know is this actually gonna work out? Is this what I'm meant to be doing? Am I completely illusional? Like all of those kind of uh questions. It's completely normal, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 29:44

I think and and it is, but I think in June I'd had those feelings before, but they were fleeting. They were like, Oh, I fan, and then I and then I would be okay. But this was different. This really felt like I was at a bit of a crossroads, yeah. And I think I even noted down the phone numbers of some pharmaceutical recruitment agencies that I used to like connect with before. So I was kind of really getting ready. Yeah, ready. I think I had their numbers in my phone and all of that.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

What has changed? What made you not pick up the phone to call them?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Um, I think it's because I made the decision, I was like, I'm gonna give myself one more chance. I'm I'm really gonna go for it, and I'm going to build some of the foundations of business and not be focusing on the glossy stuff that everyone tells you that you need actually that you do not need. And I just went back to the basics, having a core offer, having um an entryway for people to come in, a freeway like all the basic stuff. I mean, I've did marketing for over a decade, and for so I you'd think I would know some of this stuff, but you know, I didn't, and I I I kind of got got lost along the way.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, you get carried away from also from everything else you see. And if we look, look, we all see people or th like certain people as an inspiration, and if it works for them, why shouldn't it work for me? So it's completely normal that we get carried away with that.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

That is exactly what I did, and so I had a conversation with um a coach, and we had a conversation about okay, what do you really want? Because I was doing this breath work and and rest and mindfulness, and and that really wasn't at the core what I what I wanted to do. It's still tools that I use for myself, and actually I'm I'm gonna be bringing it more into my spaces as resources now. And I actually realised I've probably gone to the other way and left it behind, and I want to bring it back because I'm trained in EFT, I've done like breath work, I want to bring that in. But on that, in that conversation, it was like, right, okay, I'm gonna make this pivot, and I'm gonna move into. I think at the time I said I want to get to the subconscious reasons as to why somebody is like not moving, yeah. And my even though they've got all the strategy, all the messaging, all these other stuff, maybe there's tweaks, but there's something internal, and I knew it was subconscious, and I think I think I named my telegram group Subconscious Queens. Um, and this is how I move, Katie. I don't I don't delay, I'm like, I don't mind if I have to change it. It's called Subconscious Queens, it is that now.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

You really don't let's let's stop there again. Sorry to interrupt you, but this is a such an important thing to mention. You really do not mind when you change it, you're very open with this. Yeah, you're not just painting this glossy picture, and that's something we A need to see much more of, specifically in the online world, but also something I really really admire and value you for. Um I really I really do because I think and I'm I'm really trying to be like this. Um, and I had a really good conversation around money, for example, with someone, and um we were saying, we said, Why are we women so afraid to talk about money? i.e. are we making it, are we not making it, are we inflating numbers, are we not, what does it actually take? Uh and I said to her, is because we were talking about my business, and you know there is a pivot coming within my business and everything. So I said, Well, I'm I I have no problems being honest about this. I said I stopped my one-to-one work to concentrate on my pivot. So right now I'm not making any money, I'm investing heavily, and I'm and obviously that comes with so with certain things, and I'm really happily admitting this because I have a purpose of why I'm doing this. I made a very intentional decision to do this, but we we tend to not speak about those things. People don't make it, and it's really, I think actually, we're doing ourselves and the women around us a disservice, yeah, and I think that's why I want to be that that for other people.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah. So I spoke about having my lowest month ever in June, and that being the catalyst to change, and then bringing that back up to like earning like multi-four figures literally three months later, closing down my membership at the end of the year, going to zero MRR in January, and then bringing it back up less than 90 days later to four figures of MRR, which has kept kept growing. Um, and because of my willingness to move before the proof is there, and that is the convicted woman. It's like I am moving, I'm investing in a way that may seem slightly wild to the outside person, um, but because I just truly believe it. And it's oh and you know what, if I'm later proven wrong, I'm okay. I'm okay with that, yeah. I I I because I know that I would have followed what felt right for me. So that's never wrong.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah. Never. Yeah, absolutely. And you and there's another thing you said in my in a conversation we had, which I absolutely love, which feeds into this. Obviously, within the online space, we we tend to start with either one-to-one or group programmes, and you have launched uh group programs before, which ended up then being one-to-ones, because there wasn't a group signing up to the program. A lot of women would have not done the program and would have seen this as a huge failure, but you saw it as okay, one person signed up, so it's a one-to-one now. So I'm still being convicted in what I want to teach and do and what I want to create, and I'm creating it, and it didn't just happen once, it happened to twice. Yes, and you still continued.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah, I think the word for me is relentless. I am relentless. Um, so I have lots of doubt, lots of wobbles, and I always talk about them actually, so nobody's ever surprised. Yeah, but what they know about me is like I have a grit and a relentlessness, and so I did those two group programs that ended up being one-to-ones, right? Lucky them. Lucky they were lucky, right? And then literally November, I was like, I'm launching the convicted woman. And I think October, I think I had my first person in, so that wasn't new. That was like, oh, this is the same thing again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I could have decided that that was it. I was like, no, there's gonna be another person. Another person joined at the end of October. We've that both of them started in in November, they've both re-signed for another six months. I've now got another three people that have joined into that space literally in the last um less than two months. So it's it's a compound growing, and I know that this is just the beginning. Um, and if I had never been willing to start the convicted women with one person, I wouldn't be sat here with five women now who I'm just cannot wait to support for the next six months.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

And this is so important. I want everyone listening and watching this to know there is has to be a starting point somewhere. No one starts with a group program full of 10-15 people. There is always a progression to this, however, that may look like that. No one like oh, I hate those posts. Oh, sold out my masterminds in like 10 days. No, you've got a waiting list of 50 people. No, you did not, you are lying, and you're we're we're feeding into this false narrative which brings out all the insecurities within ourselves. So I would really like to applaud you for your honesty because we need to see much more of this.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Um I honestly I I did a post the other day about the fact that I did a four-week program that had two people in it. Yeah, it was a big ticket sort of program, and a lot of people would say it's only two, it's only two, and they would feel shame, they would feel all sorts. But what you're doing is you're actually making things worse for yourself. Yeah. Because you're not gonna serve them to the highest level, you're gonna have this feeling that you're gonna harbour, it changes how you show up. I showed up, there were 200 people in there. I showed up and showed out, and both of those women converted into my mastermind. I'd rather have that than 50 people in a programme, none of whom ever work with me again. So we've got to have a different perspective about things.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Abs absolutely, and I absolutely love this about you. And and I know we're getting a bit of a sneak peek, but you're also holding an event very soon. Well, it's not the sneak peek by the time this episode goes out. Actually, you have sold out your VOPs already for the event, which I'm so proud of. Thank you, Katie. It was I I was following it along. I mean, I've I'm everyone's biggest cheerleader, but I particularly for you, I absolutely love that because I know how hard you work for this and how convicted you are with this. And by the time this episode airs, we have two more weeks until your actual event. So tell me about what the event is all about because I want those tickets to absolutely they may be sold out, so you may have to get a bigger venue after this episode. But I want everyone to come to your event because I think tell tell us about what it is all about.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Oh, thank you so much. Honestly, I just feel so grateful. So the event is called Reclaim Her Live, and Reclaim Her is literally the journey that I have been on, like since that awful time in June when I was at my lowest point in business, and I was literally in the car driving through West London, just beside myself with like not knowing what to do. Yeah, I have taken myself on the journey to reclaim who I was meant to be before the school system said I should blend in, before the people said I should bend my head so I was didn't look too tall in photos, before I should like take off my glasses, pretend to be blind so that I didn't have to have these and like all these things I had to do to shape shift to fit in, and I never fitted in. And when I then began to realize I have something that people want, I have a skill that I'm meant to give and I'm meant to support people to be able to get out of their own way, to be the reason that their business succeeds, not the reason why it fails. And that is what reclaim her is about. It's about reclaiming who you are meant to be before society, before religion, culture, family, the industry that you're in, before it sh kind of shoved all of these extra layers on you, is weighing you down. If you can just take some of them off, take some of them off, and that will be the reason why you get to your next level, whether that's six figures, multi-six figures, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It is about you being the reason why you succeed and not the reason why that you don't, and that's what Reclaim Her is, and it is going to be epic, it's gonna be an immersive experience. I'm gonna be taking them through my five conviction code, which I haven't covered here, but these are five levers that you pull.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Keep it secret.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

We're not gonna give everything away, you're gonna have to come to the event to know about it.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

So five conviction codes, and the idea behind it is that you are the source of what you want, not any other anything on top. That's like the cherry on top, and so reclaim her is my journey, and I'm taking people through that journey to uncover and then reclaim who they're actually meant to be in their business. So, like I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

And it's in July, in July the 14th, yeah. July the 14th, so I can't wait. I'm actually gonna get my ticket after we stop recording for this. No, I will, I will, because I looked at it and I absolutely love for what she's done for. And I'm I have a free slot in my calendar in July, so I will be coming. Don't cry, don't you dare cry. But I'm gonna put you on the spot now because guess what? We're coming to the end for the episode. I know, we can talk for ages. I would love to throw a few fire questions at you, um, if you don't mind. So, so your convicted woman is willing to be misunderstood, willing to be cancelled, willing to stand out, but conviction costs women socially in a way it rarely costs men. Are we asking women to be brave in an environment that's still punishing them for it?

SPEAKER_02 41:47

You know what? There is always a trade-off. And I believe that if we are to get what we came here for, to get the bag, whatever that is for us, it doesn't have to be monetary. I do think there has to be an element of bravery. Um, and I don't, and I obviously talk about convicted woman, good girl. I think that there are elements of you know, men who are not saying what they really feel. So I actually think that if we can make this behaviour more standard, then actually maybe we can understand each other better. Maybe we can get along more. That's that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yes, I completely agree with you. One more, okay. Okay, so you launched a group programme twice and both times it collapsed into a one-to-one because only one woman signed up. That's the quiet reality behind half the scale into groups, the memberships, the six figures advice, flooding the industry. Are most women by uh being sold a growth blueprint that strategically only works for the woman selling it?

SPEAKER_02 42:48

I think a lot of the time I would absolutely say yes. I think a lot of the time we follow these rules, somebody else has made them up retrospectively. So they've thrown spaghetti at the wall enough times. Oh, that sticks. I'm gonna call it the ABCD program. Yeah, and then everybody else is like, oh, we all need the ABCD program. Yeah, but when we realise that we can use it to our advantage because we can make the ABCD program. We can we can make our own rules, yes, and that is like much more empowering to me.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

So true.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I like to end this episode with a question I asked everyone. If you could go back and give younger Nikki one brutally honest piece of advice when it comes to business, what would that be? Oh, that is a good one.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

I have this idea that we need to believe that anything and everything is possible and let go of the timeline, unclench the bum cheeks. So by that I mean every single day, every single day, get up and believe anything and everything is possible and release the timeline. And so the reason I say that is because the next day, if it didn't happen on that day before, we have to be able to have a fresh sheet again to go anything and everything is possible, but I'm gonna release the timeline and I'm gonna be open to it. Those two things seem at odds, but they are just both needed every single day, and that's what I do every single day.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the Unshakable Talks. Thank you. Thank you so much fun. Thank you so much, Katie. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to the Unshakable Talks. Please make sure to give us a follow and come back next week for another great conversation with another amazing woman. But I also want you to come to my event I'm hosting very soon. If you like listening to my episodes, if you like meeting the women I'm putting onto the Unshakable Talks, you will absolutely love my event because you're actually gonna be in the room with the women from the podcast or women who do similar things. Tickets are only £10 and everything goes to charity. A charity I've chosen because it aligns fully with the values of the unshakable talks and with myself. The link is in the show notes. Get your ticket now.