Is Network Marketing a Pyramid Scheme? Women’s Confidence and Flexible Income with Emma Notschild

In this episode of the unshakeable talks, Katy sits down with Emma Notschild for a conversation about network marketing, entrepreneurship, confidence and the assumptions women still face when they choose a business path outside the norm. Together, they talk about the stigma around direct sales, what it really takes to make a flexible business work, and why so many women are craving not just extra income, but confidence, community and something that is truly their own.

Key Takeaways:

Women are allowed to build business differently.

There is more than one valid path to income, leadership and independence, and not every successful business has to fit the traditional corporate mold.

Flexibility does not mean easy.

A business that fits around life can be powerful, but it still requires consistency, effort and a willingness to work when nobody is watching. 

Confidence grows through action.

Many women do not start because they don’t feel ready - they become more self-assured by showing up, learning new skills and doing the work anyway. 

Perception is not always truth.

People often judge women in beauty, sales or online business quickly, but assumptions say very little about someone’s intelligence, work ethic or capability. 

Community can change what feels possible.

Being around women who are building, growing and backing each other can be just as powerful as the money, especially for women who have lost part of themselves in motherhood or routine. 

If you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with Emma on Instagram @silhouette.house.uk and if you’d like to know more about what it looks like to be a brand ambassador you can click here. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Unshakeable Talks! If this episode helped you, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode, and leave a review to share your thoughts - I love hearing from you. 

Follow me on Instagram @i.am.katy.schweiger and @unshakeabletalks for updates, behind-the-scenes moments, and to connect with our unshakeable community.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Untaker for Talks with me, Katie Schweiger. This is not just another podcast. This is your girl's chat for business women. I'm going to speak to women in business, and we're not just gonna have a normal conversation. We're speaking about what it really takes to build a business, to scale a business, why we are doing business, and what are the real challenges, what are the things number one actually talks about? What are the things which are holding us back and what are the things which are really driving us to do what we're doing? So I believe running a business as a woman isn't harder, but it is different. So it's time we actually start talking about it. Let's get into it. On today's episode of the Unshakable Talks, I'm speaking to Emma. And Emma is a network marketing specialist for skincare and nutritional brand. And this conversation is getting really heated. So you want to listen to this. Welcome to the Unshakable Talks, Emma. Hello, how are you? I'm good, thank you. But I will be much better when we're doing this episode because this is gonna be so much fun. So I want to introduce you by saying that you're working today in direct sales in network marketing. Yep. And I know this is gonna ruffle a couple of feathers, but I wanted to have this conversation specifically with you. Okay. Um, because we had a little chat before, and I think there's a lot of negative uh connotation around network marketing. 100%, yeah. And I think it's important uh that we talk about this because specifically for women, I believe if it's the right company, it can open so many doors and business opportunities for women and mums in specific. So thank you for coming onto the pod and having this conversation with me. So you are working in network marketing for uh in the PG industry. That's right. Uh specifically for a brand uh by Dr. Simon O'Reilly. Yeah, Orion. Do I pronounce this correct thing? Yes. Tell me about this.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Um, well, it's uh a brand that's been established, it's only two years old. Um, Dr. Simon O'Rein is one of the leading dermatologists based over in LA. Um, he's Doctor to the Stars, he's um works with the Kardashians, Nicole Scherzinger, Lady Gargaard to name but a few, so you know, big names. Beb to pull up. Uh the uh CEO is actually female CEO, and she's been in the beauty industry for more than 20 years, heading Estee Lauder and Clinique. Um, and the founder Dan, he has actually been in the business again for more than 20 years, and one of the direct sales, specifically direct sales, one of the companies that he um he sold was valued at over a billion pounds. So these are big names in the industry. Yeah, um, so I am trained in aesthetics, um, that's not my background, but I trained in aesthetics. Um I'm sure we'll come to that a little bit later. Um, and this kind of opportunity was presented to me more than a year ago when it was it was first launched, and I'll be honest, I looked at it and thought, no, no, it's not for me. It's not for me, it's you know I think because it's got such okay, so we all direct sales every day on our social media, whether we like it or not, you know, we link to restaurants, we link to, you know, a top that you've worn or whatever, but because of previous, you know, maybe not so ethical companies or different ways they've been run, we've all gotten a not particularly good idea. We we all remember the Tupperware parties, right? And the girls in the 90s that were selling the slimming coffee that gave you the shit, yes. So yeah, we we all yeah, we all know this, but this kind of company was in involvement, and that's what I needed to look at, and that's what I did look at. So here we are.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

So I'm gonna say something which some people maybe think, mm-hmm, did you just say this? But if you're watching this episode on YouTube, um obviously then they will see how beautiful percentage you are and how beautiful you are. It's makeup, yeah, but thank you. Puty is very important to you as a person, you take incredibly good care of yourself. Yeah, and the reason why I'm saying this is they will be a negative correlation between someone who looks like you works in the beauty industry, there is a natural consumption some people make that there's not really much in here. Well and the reason why I say this is because, and that's important a for to really shout about it and be proud about it, but also when it comes to the network marketing aspect, because you actually have an incredible career before you've done this, and one of the things is you have a law degree, and a business degree, and a business degree. Yeah, so you worked for Goldman Sachs in your early 20s. I did, yeah, for many years. You did a law degree, I did, you opened a building company with your husband, worth multiple seven figures, yeah. Yeah, you obviously beauty is your passion, you're trained as uh as in in aesthetics and you're now in network marketing. The reason why I really wanted to mention this is because you're not just a pretty face, you're not just someone who thinks who is impressionable, who can be sold something to, and this idea of the pyramid scheme, which everyone has of network marketing. I mean, you have a law degree, so surely you would know if this is a pyramid screen. Besides the point, pyramid screens are illegal in the UK, so you wouldn't be able to have the company here. But tell me a little bit about the rejections you're getting in general when you tell people what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Um, okay, so they they are they are vast, you know. I mean, you you have to have a thick skin. Although I will say, first of all, going back to circle circling back to what you said, women in the beauty industry. I mean, number one, I always see, I mean, obviously, I I present myself in a certain way, so a lot of the time I do get a bimbo tag, which to be honest with you, suits me down to the ground because it gives me the upper hand on everybody because I'm not stupid.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Great way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

So I I'd sit back and take a judgment and just let people dig themselves in a hole most of the time because they're the idiots, not me. So that's that's the first thing that I'm gonna say. Um the second thing was is you know network marketing is is is a is a a vehicle, and people they talk about it being a pyramid scheme, but actually any organisation, as we've discussed before, actually operates as a pyramid, so you have somebody at the top and you know going down and down and down, but network marketing as an industry is one of the only ones that I know that you can come in and be introduced by somebody just asking, you know, about this opportunity, and you can actually go on and outrank and and earn them, you know, numerous times. Um, and there's also a misconception that you earn, you know, a commission off someone's sales. That's not strictly true. So obviously, you get um a commission for um your leadership for showing other people how to do this, and the company pays you for that, you don't earn off other people.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

So, within your company, that's an important to mention is that whatever commission you're getting, you're not earning off me if I would be under you now. You if you introduce me to the business, the company will pay you the commission, so it won't be cut off my whatever I'm making. No, no.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

I mean, obviously, I mean, any any sales role, there's a percentage of sales as a whole, but it's paid by the company, it's not it's not directly um associated by someone's pay per se. Um, again, there's a series of bonuses that you can uh um you can earn so fast up bonuses. So that's if you bring someone in and encourage them to go up the ranks quickly, they get extra bonuses, and then you get extra bonuses. Again, they're not they're not necessarily dependent on their sales figures and they come from the company.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

But the bonus schemes is is very normal within corporate 100%. I mean like banking, sales, marketing, like there is the introduction fees, it's very normal.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, I mean, when when I was working at Goldman Sachs, I mean they used to buy you know Aston Martins with their bonuses. I mean, slightly different as the old days old 90s, we don't own like that anymore. I wish we did, but you know, it is very much um effort-dependent, so you know, you you get you get back what you put in, as with most things in life, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

So I think that's absolutely true. And let's talk about your entrepreneur journey because you are a crafter, you are the the definition of a crafter, you never stop, um, you absolutely love it. Um, and you actually said to me, You you have you have to do something, like it's within it's within you, isn't it? Yeah, so you have older children now. There was a point in your life you always had your career in banking, you then did the law degree, you met your husband while you were doing your law degree, if I remember correctly. Talk me through this uh timeline a little bit until from then to now. From the from meeting my husband. No, from younger Emma in corporate to Emma now in network marketing.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Yeah, well, my my nan always used to tell me there's no shame in earning money, right? So that's the kind of background that I came from. Yeah, so my family always worked, you know, my dad was a really hard worker. It's just my mum always worked, you know, she used to work around us kids when we were younger, she used to stack the shelves overnight in Sainsbury's, which in the UK was quite a popular job for mums to do back then. I've since found out because yeah, whatever. Um, and then I started working at hairdressers when I was 12, and I I told him I was 13, so I lied, so I could get in and out a year early, and I was working for a pound an hour. A pound an hour it's like slave labour. Um, and then obviously I went through school and I always worked in hairdressing, um, you know, around there, and then um I had my son when I was young, so I was um doing my A levels when I had my son, um, and then when he was young, I did my business degree and um and then went into obviously the um uh finance up in the city. Um, and then when I had my come back off maternity leave with my my daughter who's now 21, it just didn't really suit me very it didn't suit me. Um, and I'd done a lot of work with the compliance department and it was it was something that interested me, so I went back and did law. Um I was accepted into college of law, so I was gonna do my finals to be a solicitor and I met my husband. So um, and then we started the the company um which is now obviously still running. I retired from that six years ago um because working with your husband is grim. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody uh at all unless you really want to hate them. I mean, if you want to turn around and just really fucking hate them, then yeah, go for it. So yeah, so but that was literally started. I mean, we've got um staff of over 250 now. Uh we work for do carry out um insurance works, fire, flood, yeah, for all the major um insurers across the country, um from sort of the south and south-east. But that was started from an IKEA desk in our spare bedroom of our rented house. Well, see, this is true. Entrepreneur's spirit there, yeah. So, and I had no clue about the building world, and obviously, I don't know if anyone does. You've got CS CIS, you know, uh it was a mind filled, the accounts that I you know where did you start? Because I think do you know what? I remember looking at my husband, and we oh it was awful. We we'd borrowed money off everybody. You know, I mean, we were skin like up shit creek without a paddle skin, you know, borrowed off our so we we could get this business started. And I remember standing outside the the the house that we were renting at the time and looking at him and I went, what the fuck are we gonna do? And he went, babe, I just I don't know. I I don't know. I said, Well, we're just gonna have to make it work, yeah. And that's what we did late nights, weekends, learn. I mean, we fucked up a lot along the way. Um, but you know, that's how you learn, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Like, yeah, absolutely. Failure failure breeds brilliance, yeah. And um the what you just said, like we just had to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

It's like quitting wasn't an option, it just was it just wasn't an option because there was nowhere else to go, really. So yeah, I could have gone back to Cobert. I I could have. Again, I didn't want to, like, yeah, I didn't want to, and and now working for myself, all that time, there's no way I just couldn't, not in a million years. Hence why I fell into what I'm doing now, because I am my own boss, although that comes with its challenges, obviously. But having somebody telling me what to do, having someone telling me when I could take holiday, it just wouldn't fly with me anymore. I couldn't think of anything worse than that only having 28 days holiday years.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, my daughter just signed a contract for her first job, and when we spot when we looked at the holiday allowance, it's it it brings it back, it doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

So, I mean, although that said, I, you know, I've just we also I I have a business in Cape Verde as well, property, and we've just been there for um a week, and I you know I could have sat on the sun lounger. I did sit on the sun lounger, but I was still working while I was there.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

This is I was just about to say it uh yes, you do have the freedom to decide what you want to do, where you want to be at what time, but it does come with a price to pay because and it takes a certain person uh to be an entrepreneur because there are people who find a lot of comfort and they can only operate within this comfort zone of a nine to five, the security of an employment benefit, and and all of this which comes with it. So actually, yes, we have the freedom, but I like to say we work much harder on the average, we choose what time of day we're working, but we what generally speaking, if you are a business owner and your business goals about you work every hour of the day, usually 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

I think there's a misconception that um obviously working for yourself, there's a great level of flexibility, yeah. So, and I think that's the key, and I think that's why so many women are drawn to the network now marketing space because it offers you so much flexibility, but that shouldn't be confused with the fact that you sit on your ass and get your nails done all day because that that's just not the case at all. Um, I had you know some family stuff to do yesterday, and of course I've got building work in my house. Of course I have, yeah, of course I have. Um so I was dealing with all that yesterday afternoon, and um, but yeah, last night I was working to around 10 o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

So and I want to speak about this because I know this from my personal experience. So I have um entered network marketing space about two and a half years ago when I first thought about transitioning my coaching business to more online. So I've entered this for two reasons. I've entered the travel space. Uh, one, because I was traveling a lot as a family, so that made total sense for me financially. And B, I was um thinking I could bring my coaching aspect to um the network marketing group there. But what was really, really obvious to me was that obviously there is an ideal sold. Like all the girls you see online who are really smashing it and working it and get getting really good money, that's obviously the ideal which is being sold. Um, and there was a lot of women within who I met within the travel business um who complained. And the complaints came more from an aspect of I don't think what they're selling us is true, why can't I make this work? And it was this completely wrong perception of what you actually have to do to make this work. There is a reason why it's only working so well for a handful of people because they are the ones who are actually happy to put the craft in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I mean, the the business model for sure works, it works if you do. Yeah. And in my experience, generally the people who complain they're not making money is because they're not working hard enough. You know, I mean, you can at the end of the day, you can kid yours you can kid yourself, you know. Um if you want to kid yourself and say you're doing the most, then that's fine, but obviously that's gonna reflect in your pay packet, yeah. Um, you know, network marketing isn't difficult. Um, we have like set a a DMO, DMO, sorry, so a daily method of operation. I mean, these are daily non-negotiables that we need to do every single day to get to get shit done, basically. And if you're not doing it, it's not gonna work. It's not as simple as just putting a couple of pretty pictures up on Instagram and saying, hey, look at me. That shit it just doesn't, it just doesn't fly anymore. It used to, granted, you know, or it would be more uh well received, but you know, particularly in the social media space now, you know, when people come to your your Instagram or your TikTok or whatever platform you use, people want to be entertained, they want to be informed. Um, you know, you have to offer them some sort of value. I mean, yeah, your Instagram's beautiful, it's perfect, I love it. So thank you. You know, you have to be able to give something to back to your audience. Um, you know, when you're selling anything, whether it's a a service or a business or a physical product, people need to know, like and trust you. Yeah, so they get to know you through your social media. Then maybe if they like you, that's fine. Not everyone's gonna like you, you know. Get over get over yourself. You know, there's how many billions of people in the world? Go find someone who does. Um, and then they should just don't don't even come crying to me about it. And then, you know, and then potentially they they they'll trust you enough to buy from you. It's not rocket science, really, is it? You know, but does can you just sit back and just take a snap and say, hey, buy from me? Not at all, it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So do you think it's obviously you have a really good business hat? Like you had an incredible career before that, so like your foundation uh knowledge about business and what it takes is uh completely different to the average woman or mum who enters the space to get a bit of extra money around the children. So, do you think that actually the narrative which is being sold specifically online is wrong?

SPEAKER_02 18:31

I wouldn't say wrong per se. Um, I just think people need to, I think you should manage your expectations. Um, I mean I've heard it banded about before that um and I actually I did a deep dive prior, so I wasn't misquoted on here about the network the network marketing space in particular creates more female millionaires than any other industry. I couldn't find anything actually to back that up, but what I did find is that it creates more female leaders than any other industry. Um, you you need no, I mean, the your capital outlay is minimum. I mean, yeah, Simon Norrin, it's free to join, you invest in your product, um, and that could be a 30-pound collagen. I mean, we're not talking hundreds of pounds even. Anybody can actually do that and then share that your experience with your network. Um, and then on top of that, in order to become a good leader, in order to be able to tell, you know, lead people and show people the way to do the same way, it goes really into a period of self-growth. I mean, even for me, a year ago, I couldn't have sat in front of these cameras and these lights and sit here talking to you. But you learn how to hopefully I'm not coming up for like an idiot, but you learn how to speak to you're doing fine. Thank you. Um, you learn how to speak, you know, you learn how to your confidence grows. Um, there's a lot of um looking in yourself to finding out what your strengths are. Um, there's also a lot of personal development in learning new skills. Now, obviously, I you know I have a corporate background and I'm well educated, but those are all skills that can be learnt by anybody. Yeah, you you don't have to have a formal um a formal qualification, just a desire to learn, I think, is key.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

I think what network marketing for me gives women is flexibility, it gives women an entry point of creating a career amongst being a mum, for example. Or also women who maybe because they were a mum early didn't have um the opportunities to go to uni or do a certain have a certain corporate career which they can build up on. So I think and this is what I really like about network marketing. I think when I was younger, when I was a new mum, that wasn't around. So there was not there was no option. It was very much like okay, have you got A levels or not? Did you go to university or not? What's your qualification? And therefore you're put in a certain um draws in terms of jobs. So I think this is absolutely great. But I do think the danger with this is because and that's our own fault as as women, because we think it's easy to make money when we then don't make money, because it is a whole business. Let's get it straight. It's not just like like you said, putting a picture up or trying to sell a product to someone or convincing someone to buy, is a whole business operation behind this for every single one of those women who actually makes it and making good, good, good money.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, um the the key is as well the as well with there's there's no reinventing the wheel here. That you know, you don't have to come in. I mean, obviously with your content, it obviously it it it helps to be a disruptor, as it were, you know. But the the the processes are the same for everybody, you know. They're you know, it's of offering your products, you know, offering the business opportunity, expanding your network. These are all basics that any or genuinely anybody can learn, regardless, regardless of social background. or or their you know or or their status at the moment and like you said they it can be fit in and around you know the the the the school hours for instance I mean there's a a girl uh uh Katie lovely lady she's not on my team but she's one of my sidelines and she's just taken the whole of April off because her children in private education so they have longer holidays yeah and that was intentional but she shared that because um our business is subscription based so we have guaranteed revenue as such um based on that that model so she was able to take her foot off the the you know the accelerator that particular month and stay with her children for the month obviously you know her business didn't grow but at the same time her business didn't stall yeah so I I think that's that's a a key point for women a hundred percent huge yeah hugely but what would you say to people who are listening and saying I heard it all before that's just what they tell you to make you believe it's a good thing the network marketing it is a PMED scheme.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

What do you actually say to people like this? Um because I have I'm I'm not going to lie like my husband works in finances and he's a very black and white um uh guy and when I did the travel thing um I I did it really to save on my own travel I've never intentioned to sell travel to anyone because I wouldn't have had the capacity to do that um more time probably yeah I I wouldn't um I did it because I travel a lot I'm saving a lot of money um uh through this for my for my own personal travel and I was doing it more like for research purposes just to kind of figure out how it works but he was also very very very skeptical and he was the one who really looked into that particular company their structure how they're being built and uh terms of conditions and all of that and um I needed him to do that because even I was like is this a pyramid scheme or not?

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah I mean at the end of the day my my job isn't to convince people to do something you know I mean all I can do and to be honest I can't be bothered I you know I I haven't got enough time to convince people otherwise if I'm being completely honest I I take the opinion that if that's if you think it's a pyramid scheme then I I wish you luck I wish you go with Grace you know because there's plenty of other people who are open minded and who will look at the business model and be open to the opportunity. I haven't got the time to convince people who who think it think that it's a pyramid scheme so yeah that would be the short answer really because it's it's it's just not um and I and I'll go back to to what I said at the beginning when we started talking um essentially what I do is I use products which I love I mean if you cut my veins open it would be brand colours I you absolutely love the products yeah I adore the products you know and I was standing on here and say they are the best on the market and then I literally I share those with people within my network whether that be um my friends my family I mean everyone's on on the Simon Collagen out obviously you know or on social media but we it's something that we do every single day I mean I um at the hairdressers I recommended a Netflix series you know we were talking about a restaurant I said this to you before I mean we do it a day in day out and women we're natural oversharers we we love saying where we've got what from but the difference is Netflix are not going to pay me a commission for doing that and the restaurant the Italian up the road they're not paying me a commission that is the only difference the only difference I mean how many how many times you go on your your Instagram stories and you you say about I really love this lip gloss exactly the same thing you just put a link and it's Simon Orion there's no difference we we do it day in day out and when it comes to commission because obviously you could say okay that's fine but that's a recommendation you don't really have a gain from recommending this to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Obviously with your with network marketing or with with your products there is a financial gain for you to someone purchasing but this is nothing different and correct me if I'm wrong but this is nothing different to an affiliation uh link like any influencer putting um a product out with a link they're all getting commission on every single time we're clicking this link or an everything and another piece of commission every single time we're actually purchasing from that link it's completely the same isn't it exactly the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

The business model Beyond Beauty actually is is quite unique in the market and it's it's tell me about this. So it's it's almost I mean at the as as a company they're only two years old they've experienced 300% growth across the company within those two years one of the fastest growing direct sales companies in the whole of Europe I mean you know they've they've really gone bang in the industry. So it's a hybrid model in as much that um so we have an affiliate side of the which is exactly what you were just saying we have an affiliate side of the business where you literally you have your website you have your share your link on you know on your social media or however you wish to promote it and then you earn up to 40% commission on everything that you sell. I mean we all do that um and then if you like myself if you want to go on to build a team and show other women how to do this I mean I love managing the girls and I I really really love seeing you know that first spark of oh can I really do it actually fuck yeah I can do it yeah I can do it and like getting that commission check so that's I really enjoy that aspect of it so that's that's what I do too but it's not either or you can do both and I mean if you wanted to just come in to just doing purely affiliate work I mean again that completely blows the pyramid scheme out of the water there's no pyramid it's you yourself and I and you're still earning up to 40% commission. So there is this option you can go either way. Either way so that in itself it it's a rather unique model. It's not something that I had seen before and again why a lot of the girls um all the girls in my team working within the beauty industry so they have their own clinics and salons for them it's perfect they have it's complementary isn't it oh a hundred percent yeah so it it kind of enhances the it enhances the salon experience they're able to you know um give some longevity to their treatments you know that kind of thing they're bringing the salon into their home care as such they have a you know um a an audience of customers and clients that know like and trust them they look to them for expertise so it's a natural really natural affiliation 100% also doing this affiliation as a beautician um you're getting a really good product within your clinic yeah where you don't have any over hats you don't have to produce a product you don't have to market a product you don't have to do all the testing and all the legal thing which comes with it no you obviously you have to be behind a product like you you absolutely live free even do it um but I think actually your top is even burnt colours isn't it yeah yeah no you did catch me out yeah well spotted yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it is but um yeah the the other thing to say on that as well you got me um the other thing to say on that is as well there's no minimum stock to hold so um if you go yeah really good point to say because I again I don't have my facts completely right here but I think Avon you have to have a minimum stock with Avon you I think it's quite I think back in the days if I remember this correctly yeah you actually have to buy quite a big bunch of products to actually sell it as on that's not the case with you not at all no you can choose a product um I as I said I do you know what I've had girls join my business purely on the strength of the sheet masks because they love them so much that's they just they promote those they give you know um use them in their facials or they give them to um their clients in between profilo yeah but there's no minimum stock to hold at all so you could literally join as I said earlier join spend 34 pounds on a collagen use it and start recommending that to your clients and then just get up and running start the only commission straight away really I really love that we're having this conversation because yes absolutely there are scams out there we can't we can't deny this that's just the way it is and um especially with social media and everything around now and AI there was a lot of scamming people around there but there is I think it's really important to shine a light on is that there is actually very reputable companies out there and the business model is super clever and it allows mums in particular and I know I keep saying mums but it is particular for mums it allows them actually to make an independent income whilst also being a mum yeah I mean as women we all we we meant we wear many hats right you know we have the home to run you know children and you know all those things and I think sometimes as well especially when children are small you can sometimes get a little bit lost yeah you know that there's not that element of you know something for me and you know this it gives you an it gives you a vehicle to be able to do that it it gives you your space in able to grow in your way I mean you know it might just be you just want to earn a few hundred pounds a month brilliant great yeah you know and but then again you let especially in today's climate let's not belittle the power of being able to earn a couple of hundred pounds a month absolutely you know that that could be a car payment that could be that could be make or break for most a lot of money 100% and I I think there are more women turning to network marketing as a whole a for its flexibility and b just to give that little bit extra not everybody wants to build a great big team I mean you know I'm greedy I do but you know but not everyone not every car is a natural leader or can actually lead a team.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

No and before we get into this because I really want to get into this I think besides the money and everything else what the what those kind of companies and the way they're set up and the way they're operated also gives them a sense of community. And I think this is this is one of the biggest benefits of actually being involved in a repetitive network marketing company. The girls I see online and the girls I know who are in that business who are really making good money or little money whatever suits them but the community feel they have specifically as mum is huge isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah I mean there's there's actually nothing like it I have to say um you know everyone's it I mean it is it is like girl power in you know in its its best sense you know every my husband takes a piss a little bit because like whenever in LeFo we say I love that for you that is a key phase that we do I must admit I do use quite a lot right so my husband goes I love that for you but there is a lot of that you know like a female empowerment lifting up you know I have had um the chance to meet women that I probably wouldn't have met in my normal day-to-day life you know um I have adopted granddaughters now because of a you know yeah that I think is key and I think genuinely a lot of women join just for the community and that in itself my god that can give you such a confidence boost and that actually is probably worth more than money to a lot of women so for that I will always be a hundred percent thankful I think that confidence piece is so much more than money because without that you are actually not able to make money you're not going to be able to be good in your job even if it's a nine to five even if you just work at COSA uh doing coffee you still have to be confident you still have to be able to talk to people you still have to be like a certain type of person.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah so I think this is uh we really really important uh that confidence piece and enabling women also to have something else other than their home life and their children not to be reduced to this and there's a lot of us women out there who want that and who need that yeah and we still love our children. I love being a mum and a wife but I love being a businesswoman.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Yeah a hundred percent and I think sometimes as well for some women you know the their corporate you know career as such and many many talents that they could bring to the network marketing space are being slept on they they're being pushed to one side because you know they they have children and let's face it you know to be honest childcare is so expensive now.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Oh my god yeah it's great it's horrific I mean why you know why why would you bother I mean you know in some respects a lot of people can't afford it can't afford it it's you'd literally be working for nothing so it does enable women to have a flexibility to to be able to do something for themselves earn some extra money and fit in with their children so I yeah you're right I think that is the key my children are older now so I do kind of tend to forget that a little bit but yeah it is it's really worth pointing out because that's true yeah so you strike me as a hype girl yep you I don't know you very well like some some people I interview I I have known for a little bit longer so we just recently met but you've it always had this amount huge amount of energy about you and that's why I love that you're on the podcast yeah and I know that your favourite part of the business is the leading a team is showing the other women within your team the ropes and how it's been done and helping them to really succeed and to really be the best or get the best out of this um the work process what you can give them. So tell me a bit about this was this always something you wanted to do or was it a natural progression and how does it look like do you know what no I completely fell into it.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

It's something that I didn't think that would give me as much joy and satisfaction as as it did. So when I first started it was really just to as I said I was just going to be an affiliate really you know so that that's you know what I was going to do but then I do I I know a lot of girls in the industry and then I just they started seeing what I was doing so it was like you know what you're doing you know blah blah blah um and I she I still when she watches this she'll know exactly who she is there was a very good friend of mine she's very well respected in the industry won awards etc etc and um I first went to her and she was like no absolutely no pyramid scheme no it's like oh shit no I'm not you know absolutely not um and now she's she's one of my actually she's one of my leaders so yeah so it that it was to watch her fall in love with the business yeah and the sudden penny drop yeah like oh yeah oh oh yeah yeah yeah I I love these products I'm gonna tell everyone about them yeah and watching her grow now as a leader and and pushing her into she has a small team of her own now which is fabulous. So yeah for me that was that that was the key moment I thought actually yeah this is what I really want to do this this is this is what really makes my day you know seeing those girls rank and being able to say yeah go on girl you you'd done it I love that for you yeah I love I love that for you darling I love that for you so that I think that was and yeah about probably about nine months ago that penny dropped for me and that is where all of my uh attention goes now obviously I have my my key again going back to what we said you know I don't just earn commissions and and stuff I obviously have my own customers and clients so I work the two side by side but I actually it's it's something that I didn't think I would grow to love as much as I do.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

You do I can definitely tell that you up that you absolutely love it. And I think the type of person you strike me to be is you are at the right place there.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah I think so. I've also learned that you can't make someone do something as well. You're always gonna have people join your team oh my god you're always gonna have people join your team that are gonna basically annoy you no I just can't be asked it used to really annoy me so much when what annoyed me was when people are asking for the moon and the sun and but are not really wanting to put anything in.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

And I'm thinking do you really I know like my life may look like really clamorous or easy or nice but do you actually think I'm not doing anything all day I see I I've learnt to protect my peace in as much as I'm now as well but I I learn so I obviously we have like a I have an onboarding system.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Yeah so the series of you know I've it's all laid out first seven days so I'm very very if if if I give you those first seven days very easy steps and you don't comply then I'm you know or at least make some sort of action towards it I'm happy for you to be in my world you stay in my world you stay in my group chats but then obviously my um energy has to go elsewhere. Yeah so your boundaries are very strong very strong okay because otherwise you what what's that old saying you can't lead you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Yeah it's true. Exactly the same there but you know again some people do just join um the industry because they like the sense of community and that's cool too yeah it it's it's just finding out runners we call it so so who who's going to be running the business and and and working really hard and who just wants to be in your world which is cool either way.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Yeah I like to do some fire questions with you. I hope that's okay you ready? Let's go okay you went from Goldman Sachs to building then to network marketing and skincare each step moves you further away from what society seems to be serious work. Do you think the more a woman actually enjoys her work the less respect she gets from it oh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

I know thank you yeah wow okay let me just think about this for a second I think that society frames too much of what people think and I think as long as you're happy with what you're doing your family's happy and you're not hurting anybody you shouldn't give a shit what anybody else thinks.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Love that for you I'm never gonna let that down am I no you're top performer in your team you run a strict DMO you coach other women's to do to the same standard so be honest when you see other women in this industry doing it lazily doing it badly doing it half-assed taking shortcuts and giving the whole thing a bad name how do you actually really feel about this I'd be like if I said it didn't piss me off but again you you you get shitty people in every industry don't you you know so I mean you know there's there's a lot of bad bankers out there's a lot of bad estate agents I I I think it's just business as a whole I I I wouldn't take it personally as a a network marketing. There's good and bad in all so you wouldn't do you not think that because the industry is almost like questioned a lot as it is when you then have women who are joining who don't really do the industry any favours to kind of change their perspective perception of it. And then there's someone like you who's working really hard who's really holding themselves to a lot of like a really good standard and everything. So if that would be me that would really piss me off. If I'm being really honest.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Of course yeah I mean it gives the industry a bad name but then I mean I I I personally know off the top of my head five six and seven figure earners in the industry so you know you you just look to them and and draw inspiration from them and and know that that's that's that's not the way it should be done and not the way that I want it to do and I guarantee my my commission check's a lot higher than theirs so well whatever inner work you have done it's working because that is true inner confidence.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yeah yeah so I like to end this episode with a question I extend to everyone if you could give Emma younger Emma one pretty little piece of advice around business what would that be? What would it be?

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Well you can't tell a dickhead they're a dickhead because they won't believe you okay gonna end it here.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Thank you for coming on the Unshakable Talks you're welcome thank you for listening to the Unshakable talks please make sure to give us a follow and come back next week for another great conversation with another amazing woman. But I also want you to come to my event I'm hosting very soon. If you like listening to my episodes if you like meeting the women I'm putting on the Unshakable talks you will absolutely love my event because you're actually gonna be in the room with the women from the podcast of women who do similar things. Tickets are only £10 and everything goes to charity. A charity I've chosen because it aligns fully with the values of the Unshakable talks and with myself. The link is in the show notes get your ticket now