People Pleasing Is Manipulation: Shadow Work, Boundaries and Building an Unshakeable Business with Shadow Coach Leyanne Hodgson

In this episode of The Unshakeable Talks, Katy sits down with Leyanne, shadow coach and founder of Shadow to Sovereign, to talk about why people-pleasing is really a form of manipulation, and how shadow work turned her from someone who kept attracting narcissists into someone who now calls her clients out on their own bullsh*t daily. They get into boundaries in the early days of business, nervous system regulation, and why grounding yourself, even if that just means standing barefoot on your own doorstep, matters more than people think. 

Key Takeaways:

People-pleasing is a form of manipulation.
Leyanne says she used to figure out what someone liked and ‘put that mask on,’ buying people gifts and doing things for them, not from generosity but so they'd never reject her. She's blunt about it: "that's a form of manipulation."

Only you can reject yourself.
Once Leyanne stopped fearing rejection and started finding love from within, she stopped needing everyone to like her. Her line for it: "it's okay, you don't like everybody, so don't expect everybody to like you."

There's a "good" version of manipulation too.
Leyanne distinguishes between manipulating people out of fear, and what she calls ethical manipulation: genuinely wanting good things for someone, like messaging Katy about the podcast because she wanted the exposure to work both ways, not just for herself.

In the early days, your boundaries are your moneymakers.
Leyanne describes opening her massage room at 8pm for a last-minute client message, saying "if you wouldn't have opened at 8pm the door, that client would have slipped out and never come back." Firm boundaries come later, once the business can afford them.

Grounding doesn't require hugging a tree, unless you want to.
Leyanne's Shadow to Sovereign membership runs on daily shadow work prompts, sound baths, tapping and human design, because she believes the deeper work only lands once you can ground yourself every day, even if that's just bare feet on your own paving slabs.

If you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with Leyanne on Instagram @iamthewellbeingwitch and also access her Shadow to Sovereign membership for free here.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Unshakeable Talks! If this episode helped you, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode, and leave a review to share your thoughts - I love hearing from you. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Untaker for Talks with me, Katie Schweiger. This is not just another podcast. This is your girl's chat for business women. I'm going to speak to women in business, and we're not just gonna have a normal conversation. We're speaking about what it really takes to build a business, to scale a business, what are we able to do in business, and what are the real challenges? What are the things number one actually talks about? What are the things which are holding us back? And what are the things which are really moving us to do what we're doing? So I believe running a business as a woman isn't humbled up, but it is different. So it's time we actually start talking about it. Let's get into it. On today's episode of The Unchegover Talks, I'm speaking to Liane, and Lianne is a shadow coach, and this conversation the reason I'm smiling is because it is really funny. This is a conversation you need to listen to, and it's going down the road I didn't expect, and you will definitely not expect. It involves mud, it involves trees, and it involves all sorts of other things and the dark parts of yourself. Welcome to the Unshakable Talks, Lianne. I love having you here today. I'm loving being here.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

I feel like I could live here.

unknown 1:12

You can. Come live with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Yeah, I'm like me and Robin are like to test it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah, you can you can so you are a shadow work coach. And before we start speaking about shadow work, I would like you to explain to the listeners and to people who are watching, in your own words, what shadow work is. Because I I spoke to a few shadow work uh people who do shadow work, and everyone has a different kind of explanation or how they see it. So I would really like to know how you would describe shadow work to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

So the way I would say shadow work is because of what I had to do for myself, um, and it was to take accountability for my toxic traits that are brought to my own life, so I would always be in a victim mindset, so I needed to understand why I would bring in certain toxic situations, and I had to admit what those were. So I think it's taking accountability for the darker parts of your personality. Yeah. But when I say darker, I don't necessarily mean that that's bad because there's a reason why you've um used them kinds of personality traits as a survival mechanism to get through certain situations. So yeah, just take full accountability for your own bullshit, really.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

But you didn't just start it with shadow work, didn't you? I mean, without going into too much detail, you obviously found yourself um in a phase, in a season of your life where things weren't uh the greatest and where you kind of had to look at uh your life yourself and how you do things and kind of um be putting honest with yourself and adjust and adjust things. But your first step wasn't shadow work, wasn't it? What was your first step?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Um it actually was my first step.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Was it?

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Yeah, it was my first step. So what happened was um throughout my life, it's been a bit of a crazy show. So I had my son when I was 17-year-old, so I never had the teenage years where you'd go out clubbing or go on holidays and stuff like that. Um my son's dad took us through court. There were so many different things that I've been through in my life that I would always blame other people. I was such a nice person, I was such a kind person. Why was this always happening to me? And I mean that went on all the way up till um I got this job and I had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and advised them of the disability that I had and they didn't listen. Um so I asked for um help um and they're just they just weren't interested. Anyway, I ended up um going on the sick, and uh it was that point I was like, why are they doing this to me? What why are they treating me this way? And it was at the darkest part of my life um when I thought there was no other way out, I thought I'm gonna have to really like sit with myself here and understand why this keep happening to me. And then that's when I found shadow work and started answering like certain questions about situations, and it a lot of it came from childhood, abandonment issues, neglect. Like I was shocked because you forget about all of that, and that actually is what makes you who you are, to your personality, to your DNA cells, that's all your behaviour. So I found out that I was a manipulator, I was a product people pleaser, that's manipulation, that's a form of manipulation, and people don't understand that. They think, well, no, I'm just wanting to do things to make people feel good.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

No, you're doing it, so people are Yeah, tell them tell me more about this because the people pleaser comes up a lot. Yeah, and I never heard this angle of people pleasing before.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

It's a it's a form of manipulation.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

How so?

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Because so I would sit with you, figure out what it is that you liked in a person, and then that's the mask that I would put on my face, and I would be that person for you. Right, okay. So you would be like, oh my god, I feel like I've known you for years, I've getting on really, really well. And that's because you uh because I've been able to manipulate the whole situation for you to like me because I don't want you to dislike us, I need you to like us, I've been abandoned before my life, I need you to like us. So then I would buy you gifts and do anything for you if you were like, Oh my god, I need to come get some nail varnish, I'll go get for you, and then you'd be like, Oh Diana would do that for you. That that's me manipulating you to like me, so then you would never ever be able to turn around and say, Well, you haven't done this, or you've done this, and I'll be like, Well, hold on a moment, can you remember that time I went and got you nail varnish?

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

And that's not what you should do, you should just do things because you want to do things for people, but not when you're a people.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

So there's always an alternative motive. Probably not consciously, no, um but there's always vindictive. No, you want to be like because you don't want to be rejected. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

So that's a form of manipulation, and people don't see that, but people go, Oh yeah, I'm a people please, and I'll go, well, that's a form of manipulation. They're like, No, it's not. And I'm like, Yeah, it is, and that's a toxic trait, which is okay to have because you're scared of rejection.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Like, it's very rare that you'll find someone that isn't scared of rejection. So working through shadow work and taking accountability for that, then you become the person who you're not bothered about being rejected because you start working from within, only you can reject yourself. You start finding love from within. That it doesn't matter if people don't like you. Yeah. And understanding that you don't like everybody, that's okay. Yeah, it's okay, you don't like everybody, so don't expect everybody to like you. You're here to live your life, your life path. Do what's best for you. What is going to make you happy? Obviously, you don't be like really ridiculously selfish, yeah. You're selfless and selfish, but as long as you're happy, honestly, the ripple effect of your whole life, everyone around you, changes in your life.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Oh my god, it's it's in it's it always starts with you, and you always have to be. I always say if you want to be loved by someone, how can you be loved by someone if you can't even love yourself?

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Have you ever been a people pleaser?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Um probably. Yeah. I think most of us have to a certain extent because we want to fit in. Yeah, we just want to be part of something. And um, yeah, I absolutely have been a people pleaser. If I would now think back, like for all my whole childhood, like I moved country not country well within Germany, but from the east to the west. Um it was like moving countries at the age of 10. And because I spoke very differently uh in terms of a dialect than where I moved to, I immediately had to switch. And I've haven't done this in in a matter of two weeks, uh, because I wanted to fit in, I wanted to have friends. Yeah, so I be I put that mask on. Yes, you do. Um, yeah, no, I absolutely have. And obviously, I think even within business, we do it, don't we? If we put a mask on, we want to please, we want to please our clients, we want to please um people we're working with because we think that takes us further.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

Absolutely, yeah, with especially within business, and that and I truly believe I had to do this work to be able to get my business where it is today, because I didn't start off as a shadow work coach. Like I said, I was taking my company um to a tribunal because of the way they'd treat me. Um and because I can't sit around and do nothing, I just didn't this course for like one day a week. It was like every eight months, to be fair, but it was a massage throughout this course. And once I put my hands on someone, I was like, What why have I not done this since I was 16? So there's been like steps of way of getting to today, and then I found sound healing that helped um relax my brain. Um and to be fair, I think I I've reversed all of the um borderline personality disorder um traits that I used to have because now I've regulated my nervous system because I'm able to respond now instead of reacting. And I believe that every step of the way has within the business has been to become this shadow work coach because my clients used to come to us and get a massage, and they'd want to be coached on the bed while I'm massaging them when I was doing two things at once. I was extremely tired, yeah, and then I was like, Oh, well, hold on a moment, and then I could see people changing their lives by coming in for a massage every month working with us, and I was like, right, I think this is why it's funny though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

We we do this. You obviously came to Shadowberg from what I hear to kind of face your own shadows and trying to kind of improve your life and figure out what's going on within your life. That's how it kind of all started, not with the intention, okay, I'm gonna train as a shatterburger and now I'm gonna do a business. You found your calling within the massage. Again, when you are on the massage table, you're quite vulnerable. Like um, every beautician, every master, everyone knows that everyone on the table will generally spill their life. Everyone knows that as well. Um, so you you found yourself coaching them while you were massaging them, relaxing them. You came to the sound uh bath because obviously that relaxed your mind. So everything you've done benefited you, made you a better person, and helped you to kind of um deal or navigate difficult parts of yourself, and you ended up at the space now where you can actually take all your skills and your experience and help other women. Yes. And I think that's the special part about it.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

The extremely special part, and that uh something we've spoken about before. Um you don't meet many women like us that want other women to be successful and be empowered. Um, I was very shocked by how um bitchy I'm gonna say the holistic therapy world is. I was it unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

See, I would have thought they're all like everyone is like sending everyone is like promoting this like well-being and inner peace and healing and all of that. No, see that's a bit surprising.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah, it's yeah, I was really surprised, especially because I was a previous chronic people pleaser. So there was so many people like had seen how I'm very driven. Whatever I choose to do, I'm very driven. And when other people around me were seeing that, then they were like speaking badly of me, and it it took for me. I I didn't care, but I think that I had to do the shadow work to understand that it's okay for them not to like me. Yeah, otherwise, you've got to be so strong in business when you're a woman as well. That could have like, because of my previous what I used to be like as a person, that would have brought me, made me stop. I would have been like, oh, I don't want to offend anyone, I don't want to and I'd just be like, that's okay. They're entitled to not like what I'm doing. Just delete block and get on with the rest of your life. Delete a block. That is my life now. If you yeah, are not on my life path for to support me in a good way, you are removed out of my life. It's that simple. I never ever used to be like that. I would do anything to the detriment of myself to keep people around me to make sure that everyone else was happy, and I wasn't. I was never ever happy, ever. And now I've I'm so blissfully happy, I'm so at peace, and it's all down at shadow work. And so when women ask, I just want to be like you, and I'm like, it doesn't happen overnight. You know what I mean? I've been doing this for six years.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

I was just about to say, and I can relate to this. I have I wouldn't say I have done shadow work at all until very recently. I didn't actually understand what it is, and I and I publicly always say this, and and I said it on so many episodes. I'm someone who's quite skeptical of uh this kind of world. I'm very receptive. Um, but I like to call it the voo world, and I say this with love, I don't say this in a degrading way, but I need something tangible, something factual around it to kind of understand it, and it took me a while to get behind this. Yeah, um, so I can't say I've done shadow work, but I'm definitely in the same space that you are. I'm very easily stepping away from people or situations who don't serve me, yeah. And there is no resentment, there is no hard feeling. None at all. I feel very easy about it, not in a like elegant way or something like this, but it's just it is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Yeah, it genuinely, I love that saying, it is what it is, like it just is what it is. It's okay, you're here to live your life, and I'm here to live mine. You're gonna do whatever it is, and there's no hard feelings, like in any way, shape, or form, even if you've tried to do it over in any way, shape, or form. There's no hard feelings. I get it, I understand it. Yeah, but I'm here to for a purpose, and I'm gonna do that purpose, whatever it takes, you know. So um, yeah, so I've been coaching, I've only just been starting to coach women since September last year. I've done like a pioneer with a couple of women, and honestly, the changes in them because they were just taking accountability, like they would make excuses all the time, yeah, but I'm very brutally honest, and I would just say like that's an excuse. Yeah, you're just boring us with your excuses, and we need this as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

We need someone to call us up on our own bullshit, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Yeah, absolutely. I think I love calling people out bullshit because I had to do it to myself, yeah. It's so very easy to just sit there and go, Oh no, that uh that didn't happen to me, and I don't do that. Yeah, you do, yeah, you do. I can't give you a typical example of when you do that, and they're like, right, okay. And honestly, I repel a lot of people who don't want to face that, yeah. Especially women, spiritual women, who are in their ego, you know, tell them they're in the ego, and they'll just say that I'm nasty, and I'm like, okay, fair enough. It doesn't bother us. It is what it is, yeah, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

But you in our conversation, you also mentioned that the darkest parts of yourself, like shadows are always uh associated with like a darker part of yourself, isn't it? It's not necessarily a positive uh seen necessarily in a positive uh light, but you actually said um the sh the darkest parts of your life of ourselves can actually be used as an advantage and in a positive way. So give me a couple of examples and the listeners of um how that can look like.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

So for the manipulation side of things, there's like ethical manipulation in really wanting to help people. So instead of being a quantic people pleaser and buying people and doing things, you can honestly want to do the best for them. So, like, I really want you to be successful with whatever it is that you're doing. So I come down here. So uh when I tell people about the quanti people um pleasing and the manipulation, they instantly go, Has she manipulated me? They instantly think that, but it's not like I genuinely want the goodness for you. But before I wouldn't have, I would have been going, Oh, right, okay, this is really good. I'll be on your podcast. What can that do for me? But I genuinely want to be on this podcast to see what it can do for you. So that's um actually to get here, did I not manipulate the situation by messaging you and then saying, Will you share my stuff? That's a form of manipulation, and then going, Oh, can I come down onto it? It doesn't matter. But is this really negative though?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

No, because the thing is it I think there should absolutely be an alternative motive for you to come. Let's take the podcast as an example on the podcast, because of course you want to be on like I would want you to be on the podcast to get exposure for you as well. That's why I'm I'm personally why you want me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

Yes, but I want to be on the podcast because I want you to. Does that make sense? Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, but before I probably wouldn't have felt like that, I would have been like, what's an if for me? I'm gonna come down for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

But now I look at it is that a bad thing though to think like that.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

That's what I'm saying. So there's ways of manipulation that's a good thing, you can turn it into a good thing, yeah. You know what? So, like I messaged you, I can't even remember why I messaged you to share my profile. Yeah, but I did. That's a form of manipulation, but in a good way, because it's for the greater good. Because I want your followers to see who I am, to see if whether they need to do any shadow work, whether they need to take accountability. You didn't manipulate in any way, shape, or form, but then you manipulate the situation by saying, actually, I've got this event going on. Do you want to come? Because you want me to come down to share my life experiences with the girls that's going to be down. That's the good form of manipulation. Whereas you can the bad form of manipulation would have been like there would have been like a jealousy feeling in there.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yeah, I think this is where the uh the whole face of on the movement of women supporting women goes wrong.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Um, I always people always say to me, Why are you not monetizing your Instagram? Are you getting paid for shouting at people? And I've never taken a single penny, and I will not do that because that's not what I stand for. And I know I could easily do this, um, but I I share anyone. Like, if you come into my inbox, unless it's something I really can't get behind, what you're doing, that's different. It has to sit right with my models and my ethics. But in general, I I share things because I generally want women to be um be successful and actually succeed and support each other. Like everything I do is about supporting women. My event is like supporting women, bringing women together who would never meet usually. So that's the positive thing. Obviously, yes, you have to invite people to podcast events or anything else. If you want them to come, you have to shout about it, you have to be proud about what you're doing, and that's the same way what you saw. There is manipulation to a certain extent, but that's the positive manipulation, that's the positive thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 19:13

So before I would probably look at you and be like, who does she think she is? Do you know what I mean? But that's because that's what's going on within me, because I want to be doing what you're doing, really. So that's a feeling from within, and that's why our coach women are be like, Well, why are you why are you feeling that way? Yeah, it's okay to feel that way. Let's fire that up. Why don't you do that? Because there's room enough. You can't be the only person in the world to do a podcast because that would be boring. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Well, well, well, well, I don't think it would, but anywho, no, it would.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Do you know what I mean? So, like, but it's but the same as if someone wants to be a shadow work coach after they've done shadow work with me, go and do it. It's I I can't coach the whole of the UK. I'd be shattered. Do you know what I mean? So that's the whole point. Like, it's okay, there's enough for everybody, but before I wouldn't feel like that. I was just jealous and envious all the time. I didn't want anyone else to be happy because I wasn't happy with myself, I wasn't happy with it within.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

So when someone's listening and feel like caught out, that this feeling exists, and we all felt like this at some point. We all we all have this envy and jealousy feeling at some point. Whoever says I never felt jealous is lying.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Um, but if someone's listening and feeling like she just caught me out, this is right. Maybe I should need to work on my shadows. Where could I start? And the reason why I'm asking this is because you have really strong views, which I completely agree with. Yeah, this kind of work is not a short-term solution. No, and um, but you have to start somewhere, especially when you're not really understanding what it is, yeah, when you're not really and therefore not really buying into this, and you just want to dipple your toe into it and see does this make sense for me? So my first point would be I buy a couple of books. Yes, that that was my first point to shadow work. That was my first point.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Haven't read them not gonna lie. That's because you're not ready. Yeah, that was my first point of call. I never even knew what shadow work was, to be honest with you. But um, that was my first port of call, and I did it, I think it was over 90, it was crazy days, 98 days or something, and I had to do it every single day, and it was hard. And I didn't have I always say this to my clients I didn't have a Lean to cheer you as on on the way, although I don't cheer you on. Um hold a mirror up to your face, yeah, and that's cheering on as well. No, honestly, like I am brutal, but I'm like honestly the most kind-caring person um that there is when I especially with my clients, I really take good care of them. But um, yeah, I started with a book and like you. Just said there, I stick with it, and you haven't. So yeah, people do buy the book, so it's about being held accountable, but also you don't know me. Well, you do now, but you didn't know me. Why would you trust me with something so heavy?

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

So that's why I created a membership called Shadow to Sovereign, where it's not one-to-one coaching with me, but it is a lush community of women who know that they need to be held accountable, they need to get out of the victim mindset and they need to find out like kind of who I am, what my personality is like, and whether it's I'm able you're able to work with me. So that's uh um monthly membership, it's a different theme every single month, and it's only just launched on the 1st of May. I've got 22 members so far, and honestly, they are absolutely smashing it. So there's a shadow work prompt in there every day, but it's not as heavy, I'm gonna say, as what it is when you work one-to-one with us. Um, the questions every day, there's guided meditations in there from me, there's sound baths in there from me, there's practices and rituals, like new moon, because I'm a new I'm a full moon and new moon girl. Um and there's like human design in there, there's EFT, um the tavern in there to help regulate your nervous system. Because first and foremost, you need to be able to ground yourself every day. You need to be able to ground yourself. That's how I'm able to do the work that I do is because I'm really, really passionate about getting your feet on the ground, and I don't mean like Instagram style, literally just. What is Instagram style? You know, when you say people are sitting in the forest with their phones pinned up somewhere and they're pretending they're meditating, like and they're like out of nature, and you're like, Yeah, but you've got your phone with you and you've got on record, so you're not out in nature. Just step outside, like even on your paving slabs, if you've only got a backyard on a little bit of grass, and just ask Mother Earth to just ground you, take away whatever.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I'm gonna I'm gonna disclose a story now I've never told. Let's go. I'm a bit scared to say it to you, but so in my old company, one of the girls who worked in my office, I'm laughing before. Yeah, I'm trying to find the right words to not like be dismissive of it. But uh basically it was on holiday, and my office manager called me and she said, Katie, I've got a situation here, and I said, What can it be? And I was kind of in the in in in in the spirit of like not again, and she's like, I'm not sure how to say this to you, is but let's call her Susie. It wasn't Susie, but let's call her Susie. Susie came into work today with um really dark brown trainers. And I thought, okay, well they're nice trainers. We were client-facing. She susie was client-facing, so there was a specific decorum how she had to present herself, yeah. She said, not ever dirty. And I'm like, what? She said, yeah, and then and I'm like, what done? And she's like, well, she pursued to take her trainers off and empty the content of her trainers into the bin, which was turf. And I said, fuck off. I said, what do you mean? She's keep telling me she's earthing herself. And I'm not gonna lie, I said, you must be having non here. And I said, what do you mean? She's coming into work into an office setting with Mutt and her trainers and emptying it in my office bin to tell me she's earthing herself to be ready for the day. But she got a hajar though.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

She was, wasn't she? Now you're thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

No, she actually wasn't in high bed. She was really new at the time. But I remember at the time, that's like many years ago, obviously. Um, but I remember sitting on the sand lounge there googling earthing yourself, because I said to my husband, surely that can't be true. And he's like, Fuck off, Katie. Like, what kind of weirdles are we hiring? And I said, She looked really good on paper and she made a really good impression. And I googled it, and it's actually a thing, and it was the first time I came across this. Um I must say, I still can't get behind putting mud in your shoes.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

No, don't put mud in your shoes.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

But I guess the point I'm trying to make is there was there is a part of Katie many years ago has been really ignorant towards all of those things because I didn't know about those things. Like I said, I do not recommend to put mud in your shoes when you go into your workplace and empty it in a bin. However, I can see how this is helpful for people and how this like if you're really into this, I think you have to your mind had like you have to be really married to this. You will not catch me hug a tree.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Why?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

No.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

But why? Why not?

SPEAKER_01 26:58

I think I would feel stupid.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

But why?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

I love nature.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

But why would you feel stupid?

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

But exactly. I I you catch me in your shadow behind that. Why you think you'd feel stupid?

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Well, maybe we have to talk about this off-screen, or we can talk about this now, but I love nature, and I get the whole principle of you need to be out more nature, and all I have a dog, I love being uh outside in in nature, I love the birds singing and everything. You will not catch me, hug a tree and say kumbaya to myself.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

No, so you're judging yourself, yeah. You said I feel silly. You're judging yourself. No, it's actually really nice. Like I honestly. We've got to hug you on this. I was you, I was you, I was just saying, I tree hugger, crazy. But honestly, I mean don't get us wrong, I don't just randomly walk around the streets hooking trees and stuff. But you know, like if I if I am having a really bad day, I do go down the park, I take my socks and shoes off, walk on the grass, and I will go and sit next to a tree. I will go and sit next to a tree. Honestly, it's it's life-changing. I'm not just saying it, it's life-changing. It's one of the things that I had to learn to do. And I'm not saying do that every day, but you I do believe that you need to ground yourself every single day.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

And especially if you're a different way to ground myself other than walking in the mud.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

You don't have you can walk on your pavement. You know what you can do. Open your front door and just stand on the stair. I do feel the coldness coming through your feet.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

I love having uh being barefoot. Yeah, yeah. So I never have shoes on in the house other than obviously now. But generally speaking, I'm always barefoot and I don't mind walking barefoot around like so you're grounding yourself without grounding.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

There's you're just grounding yourself without intention. That's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Oh I'd just been on a tree, I guess. Okay, fair enough. I've been humbled. Everyone fair enough, okay. I take it. Yeah, I guess so.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Yeah, yeah. You just don't know, and then when you're on holiday and you want round barefoot around the pool, grounding yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

I'm still not hugging a tree. Anyways, let's move on. Okay, we will down a tree, we will hug a tree. But let's come back to your membership because your membership um is really interesting for me as a business coach and businesswoman because this is your entry level to your world. Because really, the shadow work you're doing on a one-to-one basis is an intensive program. It's high ticket, obviously, because it's a one-to-one program and it should be high ticket, but it it requires commitment. And you can only put commitment in a program like this if you're actually ready to do the work. Yes, you have to be ready, don't you? And if you're doubtful, and if you're someone like me who is a bit skeptical about certain things, um that membership is great because that gives me a taste of your work, also the nervous system regulation, because all the sound buff, all the meditation, all the tapping, all of this is vastly useful for us women in business, like for anyone, but specifically for us women in business. Um, so tell me obviously you started with one, and I believe you started with one-to-one, and this membership was a new addition, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Was this your intent? Was this the reason why you started a membership to have it like almost like an entry model to your world?

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Yes, because I was finding that um, I mean, don't get us wrong, over the years I've built up a beautiful community, and then with the ladies that have come to work one-to-one with us, and now I believe that you have to trust it's really hard work, like and really push you out of your comfort zone. Um it's not like a mindset coach where there's a framework in it. Yeah, like I literally do a personalize to you and I call you out on your bullshit daily. Um no excuses allowed at all. Um but for you to trust me in that and to understand how I work, I'm very well, I'm very humorous, I'm very sarcastic, I'm very dry. You have to understand that all comes over with love. And so the membership was created so you could understand where I was coming from, what I was about. So then it's like, oh, okay, then that now I can trust how this is gonna work. So it's very you're not coached at all, it's a lovely community, the shadow work prompts are there, people reply with their answers and stuff like that, and I might go in later on and give a couple of replies.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

So it's easy maintainable for you as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, which is very smart, yeah, yeah, and it there's exactly how it should be because the more you have would have to put into this, the more it takes away from the in-depth work you're really doing with your clients.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Yeah, and I've that's what every step of the way that I've gone, because I meditate a lot and I speak to people think this is crazy talk, but I speak to my higher self and she's the one who tells us, and the ideas come in the fall, and it happens so easily because it's the work that I'm meant to be doing. Yeah, it's not something that I've seen somebody else do, and it's not something that's been pushing it, and it's like, okay, that's the idea, this is where I have to go with it, and then I just do it and it works, and that's why the membership is such a lovely place to start off with, and then obviously, if you want to work one-to-one with me, there's always uh gonna call and speaking with me and stuff like that. But it is a really good entry level, and you get seven days free trial, so you get to go in there for seven days free just to have a nosy around and see if it's something that you would be interested in. But every month is a gonna be a different so it's grounding in protection, hug and trees, uh the first month, second month is gonna be um boundaries, and then the next month it'll probably be people pleasing, next month will be accountability. There's gonna be a different theme every single month where you are gonna be called out on your bullshit, really, where it's come from.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

I absolutely love this, but I want to ask you um I want to speak about your business setup because obviously you're coming from a background where it's been hard in the working environment for you. You went through a lot of challenges um which obviously um put you through a hard time within your life, which ultimately the positive out of this is what you're doing now. Yeah, it made you the person you are now, it made it it gave you that uh that incredible skill to actually guide other women through that. So that's the beautiful part out, and I always say out of a really challenging time in your life, something beautiful happens, and that happened to me as well. But when you come from a normal employment kind of setup and you had a job and you had job security and everything, and then decide to do a business, that's quite I know that it's quite challenging, and specifically in the um healing practitioners kind of work, there is I think there is a stigma around people who work in this industry that they maybe don't are not really savvy in Christmas uh in Christmas in business. I am a savvy at Christmas as well, me too. Are we happy in the Christmas tree? Not we're going off track here now, but in business, you know. Um there's a certain assumption some people may have with people from this and from this industry. Tell me how this was for you, like setting up this business in terms of was it easy for you? Did you know what steps to take? How did you navigate this if it wasn't easy?

SPEAKER_04 34:21

So I just um I set up my massage room in my spare bedroom, and that's where I got my first clients coming through the door who are still with me today, three years down the line, bless them. Um but then uh because of my mental illness, I didn't feel comfortable people coming to my house. So I I joined a networking scheme, yeah, and uh I found people in there where they had to refer you and stuff, so my business kind of just went whoosh because of that. So then I was able to rent a room before you knew it, like how the clients were coming through. But and I do tell people this all the time I never switch off to make your business successful, it's not all sitting hugging trees. Thank you. It's really not. You've got to grind and work like unbelievable hours for your business to succeed. You can't just hope for the best that people are gonna go, I'll go to Leon get a massage. You can't hope for that. No, you have got to be seen all of the time. When you say be consistent, I put my personality out there because I'm quite humorous. I would find funny massage videos and do them. So people would be like, Oh, I need to go, I need to go and see her. She's funny. So then I would make people laugh, then I'd make people feel good, then I would be coaching them. So then they would tell people, so it was grind constantly all the time. I can remember times when you know people would message us and say, Can I have a massage at eight o'clock? And I'd be like, Yeah, yeah, I'm totally open. And I wasn't, I wasn't open, and I would go down the studio and I'd open up for that one hour to go and do a massage and then wash everything down and close it all down. But that didn't matter, like I had to work so hard, and I think a lot of people feel, especially with me, feel like it's come easy, and I don't understand why a lot of people from my background think that maybe I won financially through the tribunal that I went and I didn't. Um I just knew that this is what I was meant to be doing. Like, I can't explain it unless you feel it yourself. Yes. If you know it's something that you're meant to be doing, you do work all the hours God sends, but it comes too easily because it's what you're meant to be doing. So I would go around all the churches around the northeast and haul sound baths. That's what paid for my rent for my massage treatment, you know. Uh but I charge me worth, I absolutely charge me with. I know what you're gonna feel like when you set off my massage bed, like it's an experience, it's not just a massage. Um, so I charge me worth, and obviously all my overheads, and then I created just this beautiful community of women who trusted us, and then they would just speak about me and you know, considering I was a chronic people pleaser, and I had to manipulate people to like me. These people were just like me for who I was, and it was just like I can't like I'm getting goosebumps now talking about it. If it's what you're meant to be doing, it won't be hard, but you still have to work, you still have to put the work in.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

I love that you say this, and I love that you took this example of and someone calls you at eight o'clock and wanting a massage, you went downstairs to open the room, and that's exactly what it is. We speak a lot about boundaries, yeah, and yes, I teach boundaries, yes. I have very strong and strict boundaries right now, like nowadays. But within business, specifically when you start out, specifically when you're trying to build something, there are no boundaries. Like boundaries have to be adjusted while you go along. Yeah, and in the beginning, your boundaries are your money makers. Like, yeah, if you wouldn't have opened at 8 p.m. the door, that client would have slipped out, would have never come back, probably. But you opening this door would have allowed that client to get to know you and stay within your world for longer.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

That is what happened.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah, that's exactly what happens, and I think sometimes I feel this new era of um coaching and business coaching in particular, because everyone seems to think they're a great business coach these days, um, is is really feeding into a false narrative. Yes, having your own business is great, it gives you a lot of freedom, it's self-impression and all of and all of this, but you have to craft. Yeah, it is very, very hard when you work for yourself. You don't have anyone to pick up the bill, you're not getting sick pay, holiday pay, all of that. You're not closing the door at 5 pm. No.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

Sometimes at 8 pm after one client. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I'm sometimes in bed at 11 pm answering my messages because this is I don't try I tend I try not to do that, but sometimes you can't help sometimes at this the first time in the day I had time to do that, and that's okay. It's not an always, but at that point in this season of my business, that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

And I think it's really important that we're honest about this because it's not all roses and bambos, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 39:21

No, absolutely not. It's not easy, but you know at the end of it, wherever that may be, it will be. Yes, but you do get to decide your life and your diary and when you're able to take time off with kids, whatever, and stuff. Because like you know, as well as all of this, you know, I'm my mum's full-time carer as well. People don't say that, I don't speak about it. It's not I don't really open up a lot about my private life to be honest, but that's a shadow of mine because I don't want anyone and to know that I'm vulnerable or anything because I've got any weaknesses and stuff like that, and sometimes I don't think anyone's got enough time in the day to listen around it anyway. But yeah, it's it is really, really hard work, and you are entitled to have boundaries when you're so far into your business, but not when you first start now.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

No, they're just different, you have boundaries, but they are different, and I think that's important to acknowledge. Yeah, believe it or not, we're coming to the end of the episode. I know it's because we were talking about hugging trees. That's why. But I want to do some fire questions with you, if that's okay. Yeah, are you ready? I haven't got one for hugging trees, I wasn't prepared for that one, so let's go with the ones I've written down. Okay. So you've been a chronic people pleaser your whole life, and you've said it the reason you um attacked attracted so many narcissists into your life, that was the reason because you've been so people pleasing. So, where does the responsibility sit, in your view, with the people who are exploiting that or with the women who keep making herself available for it?

SPEAKER_04 40:56

So, when for me I would attract narcissists because I wanted to fix them. I wanted to be the one that could make them get better, and they'd be like so grateful to me. Yes. When actually this person that was in front of me was a mirror of me, and I needed to fix myself.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Thank you for being honest. You're welcome. Next question. The Ranas world is full of women calling themselves cultures, healers, intuitive guidance, most after a weekend course and an Instagram bio refresh. Do you love that? I love it. You spend six years doing this work on yourself before charging anyone for it. Are we in the middle of a credibility crisis in this industry and does the woman buying actually know how to spot the difference?

SPEAKER_04 41:47

No, absolutely not. But again, that's something that when you work one-to-one with me, I start making you believe in yourself and trust in yourself. A lot of women say to me, I know, but what happens if this happens? I'm like, trust yourself that you will know when to walk away from whatever situation. Yeah, it's about you trusting yourself, it's not about us giving it to anybody else, trust yourself. So people can all say whatever they want, and their coaches, like you just said, they've done like a little weekend course. It if you feel pulled to them, go and work with them because nothing's a failure, it's a lesson learned, and you'll never do it again, and that's okay. And I don't believe in anyone failing at anything, it's a lesson learned, and we've all got to learn them along the way.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yes, I believe failure is like research. Yeah, you just figure out what didn't work. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And totally okay. I like to end this episode with a question I asked everyone.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And that would be if you could go back and give younger Lianne at the beginning of her business journey one brutally honest piece of advice, what would that be?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

So younger Lianne, like just three years ago, or like younger Lianne, like when she was very young, that she was gonna have her own business. 12. Okay. Um There would be two advice pieces of advice. Um a bit of advice for my younger self. I would oh, um probably say it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay, don't worry about it. Go go through the motions, it's gonna be okay. Yeah. But myself three years ago, uh I would have said, um, are you sure that it's what you want to do? But I truly believe every step that I've been through to regulate my nervous system is so I can be a successful businesswoman. Um because I hug trees and ground myself, um, I would definitely tell her that that's what she was gonna be doing to be successful, and she probably is what I just said. I'm absolutely not hugging trees. I'm with Katie on this one, but yeah, that is probably what I would have told her is that yeah, you need to regulate your nervous system. A lot of people don't understand that, they think they've just got to grind, but they need to be able to know when the pull back because you are gonna have to grind to be successful, but you are need to know when you pull it back and yeah, stay calm.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Thank you for coming on the unshakable talks. Thank you for listening to the unshakable talks. Please make sure to give us a follow and come back next week for another great conversation with another amazing woman. But I also want you to come to my event I'm hosting very soon. If you like listening to my episodes, if you like meeting the women I'm putting onto the unshakable talks, you will absolutely love my event because you're actually gonna be in the room with the women from the podcast of women who do similar things. Tickets are only £10 and everything goes to charity. The charity I've chosen because it aligns fully with the values of the unshakable talks and with myself. The link is in the show notes. Get your ticket now.