Raising the Bar - Featuring LaDonna Lockard

Raising the Bar: Women Leading the Mortgage Industry is a monthly OMBA conversation series hosted by Director of Engagement Heidi G. Belnay.

Today's episode features LaDonna Lockard, CEO of MaxClass, an NMLS-approved company that makes mortgage education feel less like a checkbox and more like something worth doing. She is an instructor, podcast host, national speaker, and licensed realtor whose work centers on building confident, sustainable careers in mortgage.

Expect an honest conversation on leadership, education that matters, and women supporting women in the industry.

Originally aired live on 4/22/2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Good afternoon, everybody. I see everyone's popping in. Thanks for joining us today. I'm gonna give everybody a minute to get here, Ladonna, before we get started and I give your big introduction.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

I love this. It's so hard for me to just be sitting here. I am used to being the one like running everything. So I'm gonna do my best to play guest. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

You can share co-lead with me. I'm gonna be fine with that.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

It's gonna turn into me interviewing you. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

All right. Well, everybody, thanks for joining. I am so lucky today to have Ladonna Lockard as my guest. Um, so we are going to learn more about Ladonna and her journey and all of the amazing things she does for women. She is the number one girls' girl of the mortgage industry. Um, if you don't know her, you need to. So make sure to follow her on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Thank you. I love that intro. That's perfect. I I'm I'm so happy to be here. And I love that I've become the girls' girl of the mortgage industry because this was not ever a way that I saw my path going. And I love that through time it's gone that way. It's your reputation now. I know, I love it. I'm here for it. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

So you have been in mortgage for a while. What was your journey that led you to where you are right now? I always like to hear how people got started in industry because it's pretty much always by accident.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

It always is, and no two paths are the same. I'm in that category of never saw myself getting into this. I started on the title things and I started as a document runner. This was how long ago it was. I mean, we're talking like 22-ish years ago. So you were actually driving the files places. Yeah, yes, and like running them to and from closings, all of it. So started there and within a couple of months had worked my way up into an escrow assistant, then worked my way up into a marketing rep, and I stayed as a marketing rep almost all the way through the recession. I was so close. And then within maybe a year or two of it ending, I jumped ship. I went over into the property and casualty side of things. And then in 2013, my sister called me up and she was like, Hey, I'm buying into this company. They do mortgage education and we want to add a compliance component. Will you come and help me start that up? And I was like, Well, yeah, sure. But what does that mean? She was like, Well, I don't know, come figure it out. You'll know it later. Yeah, right. And that's exactly how it was. Got there, had to figure it out, had to create and structure an entire compliance department that became a standing cornerstone of what that company did. And when that company sold two years ago, I branched out. I started up a company called Max Class. I've been running in the NMLS education sphere now for 15 years. And I'm like, I'm still just getting started. I have so much more that I have to do. But that's that has what has been leading me up until this point.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

It seems like your goal has really been to have like a fresh approach to education. So why do you think that we need that? And tell me more about that too.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Because it was just so boring. Like, let's just call it like we see it. It was so boring. I'm like, we saw the same faces time and time again. And people would try to put fun spints on it. And I have a lot of appreciation for that. But at the same time, then a lot of the content was getting lost. Yeah. And a lot of the information that LO's need in order to better run their businesses so that they can make more money was getting lost in the weeds. And so when looking at this through all of that time, realizing, hey, wait a second, we've heard from the same voices and the same perspectives time and time again. And then we have other people who are trying to make it fun, but they're losing the parts of it that actually make it so that people walk away feeling like they really learned something that they can go and apply to their business to get more business. That was being lost.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

And so I wanted to come in actually learning things to better yourself, not just like getting the credits and leaving.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Exactly, exactly. And what people don't understand on the NMLS education side, we are so regulated on what we can train on. We have specific topics that we are allowed to train on and the ways that we're allowed to train on them. So for example, one of my things that I do in CE is I include industry expert interviews from other people so that you can hear their perspective. Well, I had this incredible guest, Dave Gray, who is uh VP of Inker on and talking to him about how he does investor loans. Well, the NMLS came back to us and said, Hey, wait a second, this is too selfy in its approach. You're teaching people how to sell, you're teaching them how to market themselves. We can't do that. And I was like, Well, wait a second, we're trying to get them more business, and this is what moves the needle for MLOs, making it valuable to them. Yes. So, what can we do to kind of shift that to still get them that information that they need to provide them with that diversification mindset, but to do it in a way that still allows me to keep a providership. So it really has just been this merging of worlds and figuring out where to draw from, what makes sense to utilize, and to do it in a way that LOs actually resonate with. And so I only use people who are active originators as instructors, not people who were originating 20 years ago and pretending like they're still originating. I'm like, I see you, I know what you're doing. You're not gonna fool me, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

You're not really out there like in an open house, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Bingo, bingo. I'm like, don't tell me that you're walking in with a giant business card to give to a realtor. I'm like, no one has done that in 20 years. I don't want your BS. I want what people are actually doing right now that works. So it's just, it's been a very, it's been an approach that's been all my own. And I'm I'm proud of what I've been able to accomplish in a short amount of time of just shifting the way people think when they think of CE.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah, I think that you've made a lot of changes in how people view it already. So can't wait to see all of the things that you do.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, there's more to come. More to come. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

So last year, I think you went on what 50 different trips to 49.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

49 professional working trips. 49.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

That's crazy. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

It was insane.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, I can't even imagine I would be completely drained.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

No, I knew we're getting bad when on the final trip of the year, I was like, maybe I can squeeze one more in. Maybe I can just hit 50. And I I broke a rib getting off of the airplane, pulling my back down. Now, in fairness, I had already broken it earlier in the year when I was surfing direction that I healed. I rebroke it and I was like, this is my body's way of being like, girl, you are not taking a 50th trip. We're done.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

That was a sign. I think that was a sign. Uh so I've seen you post a lot recently about being more intentional in travel, trying to spend more time with your daughter. Uh, so what made you, other than the 49 trips, I guess, decide to do that? And how has that been?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

It's been incredible. So I have an almost 13-year-old. And for the past two years, I have been on the road nonstop, just building up this dream of mine. And she's she's done incredible with it. And in fairness, I have a great support system. But I started just feeling, I don't know, that extra pull as a mother, where all of a sudden you you're looking at this kid and you're like, I only have so much time that you're going to even want to be around me. And I know that time is limited. Do I really want to spend the next couple of years trying to fight to get back into your good graces at these times where I know you need me and my guidance the most? So it's been hard. It's been hard. I had two trips a week ago that I had to cancel that I was just like, I just can't prioritize these right now. And it's really having to take that dynamic look at what does actually move the needle and what doesn't. And where you can give and where you can't. And my daughter for me is a non-negotiable. I'm like, I can't give when it comes to her.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

It's hard to find something that goes over that priority for sure as a mom too. My daughters, as you know, Gretchen is 11, almost 12. And the same thing. Like I tell her all the time, she thinks I'm really cool now. She's not going to think I'm cool in like two more years. So I like take in every second I can with her. I bring her to conferences when I can. Um, I want her to like me and remember all these good things when she hates me when she's like 15, to be like, oh yeah, we used to be cool and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Remember that time that you got to go with me to La Jolla? Yeah, I remember that too. We had a good time. You saw the seals. I know I'm like, same story, just trying to cash in on that right now is so important.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I'm sure that you feel the same way, but I this age, there's something about it that I'm like, oh my, the time is like flying by. I don't think how I almost have a teenager. It feels like I had a toddler like last week. So it's it is it's like scary. It's kind of like you have this like, I'm gonna call it like a mid-parenting crisis where you're like hypercreasing focus.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yes. Right now, her favorite thing to do is every morning she measures up next to me to see how close she is. And right now we're within one inch of each other. Oh, that's crazy. I know. I'm like, it's it's happening, it's happening too quick. And so I just I need that time with her.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

So, what advice would you give to other women in the industry trying to prioritize? I think that all of us have a lot to learn in prioritizing things, and it's it's really hard as a mom to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

It is, and my advice is you'll never do it perfectly. You just won't. You'll you're going to look back at different points and you're going to realize, like, damn, if only I had done this differently then. Or wow, I really missed that opportunity, or I wish I had that time back. I started working again when my daughter was three days old. And that's not an exaggeration. I had clients who were like, Did you have her on your lunch break? And it was basically that. And looking back, I look at how much of that time I lost with her as a baby. And I'm like, did it really make that big of a difference for me to go back to work that early? Did it really like, what did I have to sacrifice in order to make that happen? And realizing again, you're never going to do it perfectly. You can only do the best with the information that you have at the time. But do take a little bit more time to have that foresight and realize, again, there's there's balance in all things as long as they are your priority. And that's something that I I'm really thorough about communicating with her. We have a very, very open dialogue of a relationship where we talk about everything. And so I let her know what's going on in my business so that she can actually feel like she's involved in it. And I take my work calls in front of her and I make sure that she knows what it is that I'm doing and what I'm building. And I like to, not in a in a heavy-handed way, but I like to tell her, like, baby girl, I'm I do this for you. I do this so that you have the things that I never had growing up, so that you get to experience things that I never got to experience growing up. And really just letting her feel like she's a part of it. Again, not in a holding it over her head kind of way, but just a like girl, I want you to have the best life possible. So I'll do everything in my power to make sure that I do exactly that. And just keeping them informed. Kids are so smart, they're going to pick up on what you're doing anyway. You might as well just be open and honest with them.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, I'm the same way. I like her to hear work calls. I want her to understand like everything that I'm doing because if not, I don't think they like grasp at what other types of jobs there are too, which is like I remember that growing up. I just wanted to be a teacher. And it's I didn't see anything but my teachers. So, like, that's what I thought I was kind of supposed to do next. Like that was the only thing I had to model after. Um this is when I raised when sorry to interrupt you, but no, no, no, you do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

I didn't do it, and then I'll tell you my it was 2020.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So she did virtual kindergarten and she had her first art meeting in kindergarten. And like people teachers didn't know really what they were doing then. So on the Zoom, the teacher like gave them a syllabus, I'm gonna call it, that she read them of like everything that would be prepared throughout the year. And I was on a work call, but I could hear her in the other room. And she said, Can you send that in an email to my mom? And the teacher was like, Okay. And then they went to go hang up. And Gretchen did like a wrap-up. She was like, I just want to confirm that you'll be sending that email to my mom when we hang up here. And like I was howling in the other room laughing, but like she did a wrap-up. She made sure that like this teacher was gonna follow through and send it. And then like everyone had their directions and I could hear the teacher laughing. Cause she like let me send the intention. I always like to add the art teacher never sent the email, which I think is really disappointing. I hope she never hears this. Ball of it. Ball of a busy lesson. The email. She didn't ask about the syllabus. She didn't want to miss anything.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Oh, I love that. I love that you bring that up though, because a couple of weeks ago, and I actually need to do a post about this. I went and I did my daughter's college and career day. And you could pick if you just wanted to go and present just for their class, or if you wanted to be there for the full day and have like a table. And I did. I did the full day. I talked in every period. I did a lunchtime table. I did an after school table. And I just got to hang out with these middle schoolers all day long. And it was so funny to talk to them about it because I started it with like, who in here knows what a mortgage is? And of course, people knew real, the kids knew real estate agents, but they didn't know anything about the mortgage side of things. And I'm like, of course you don't. It's boring AF. Let me make it fun for you. Let me tell you what actually gets exciting and makes it cool. And just getting to have those conversations where I'm like, why aren't we better about touting this industry that we love and that so many of us believe so strongly in? Why aren't we better about being our own best advocates and really just kind of bringing that younger generation into it? So that's that's a huge soapbox moment that I'm like championing like crazy of have those conversations, get that younger generation informed. And let's let's actually build up that next generation of talent in this.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Let's like stop having people just land here by accident. Like their stories will be I always wanted to work in mortgage, and like this piece of it because I instead of I landed here by mistake, something crazy happened, and I never left. And that's like every person's story in this generation. So we can we can turn it around, I think.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

I think so too. I think so too. I know I'm like, I've I've tried to coin like how can we make mortgages sexy? I'm like, you can't. You just can't. They're not, they're not. But what can be really cool is the great things that can come from it. And there's a lot of people who make a whole lot of money in it. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Gretchen thinks she's gonna be a teacher and have a beach front condo, and I'm like, we haven't talked enough about real estate and mortgage if that's the way we're headed. So we have to turn it around. And that's why she now comes to conferences because I was like, all right, I'm doing a bad job explaining this to her, this whole life thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And again, like, yeah, if that's what you want to do, keep your passion, do your thing. But we're gonna paint some realistic expectations. Understand like what the whole thing looks like.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So, as part of your job, you obviously talk to mortgage professionals everywhere. What are you hearing now? What's like the latest buzz and things going on? Things are hard.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Things are hard, but I do feel like for the most part, the people who have made it this far are the people who really do take their business seriously. And I really love the varied approaches of the people that I get to interact with. I have some who have gone like full all AI. They are in it, they are automating everything, they are running all sorts of claw classes, like they're they're killing it in that avenue. And then there are others who have gone the exact opposite where they're like, no, you know what? Actually, I like the more boutique approach. I want to hold my clients' hands. I want to work with maybe an older generation who isn't so enthused about the automated system sides of things, but they need a little more help over here and everything in between. And so right now, really, is that super unique time in this industry where I'm like, you kind of get to pick your niche. Yeah. Like, not to say it's going to go that way forever, but for right now, you do get to pick your niche. I do think diversification is so important. I think there are so many programs and lenders out there that people just are not familiar with, and really taking the time to seek out some education. Again, not to like champion this cause over and over again, but I'm like, I really have seen the way that education transforms people's businesses, and there's so much to that, and there are so many free resources out there that you can do it prior to maybe getting a more advanced class. We have YouTube, we have Chat GPT. You can ask so many different things and get your mind going in that direction before you actually take a next step and really figure out what you want to do and how you can diversify. So I'm like, there's there's so much opportunity right now that I just think education, diversification, and not being afraid to double down on what works for you is the key to surviving right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah, I think part of the diversification too is understanding that like AI doesn't have to replace you. It can give open up time for you to spend more time with clients. But right now, I feel like it's so new and there's so many unknowns, especially for like older generations where they they don't understand it. Like it seems scary and there's parts of it that are scary, like it can learn so much. But I personally wouldn't want to hand off like the conversational parts or the relationship part. But if I can do the other pieces in the background with automation and then have more time for them, I think it's a win for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

100% totally agree. Figure out how to optimize your time in your life.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So, what do you think is different this year versus last year in the mortgage industry?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

I don't know if there is a lot of difference between last year and this year, personally. I think there's a little more volatility that we're seeing this year just because it's we have some unknown political things going on that have caused some shakeups, but for the most part, the market seems to have priced a lot of that in and it it hasn't been super erratic. So I'm like, again, I don't know that there's a whole lot. I kind of think last year and the year before were the normalization years of we just have to get people familiar with these rates. Guess what? These are what the rates are now. Sorry, sorry, it's not 2020, sorry, it's not 2021 anymore. Who wants their 3% back?

unknown 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I'm like, trust me, I want that back too. We all want it back. It ain't coming back. So let's normalize it and and really take that education standpoint too of let's figure out how we can make your money go the furthest. Let's figure out why now is a good time for you to buy. Let's figure out what opportunities are out there. Let's look at some of these different scenarios and then not being afraid to have that conversation if it isn't the right time either. But I do think it's been long enough since the 3% days that life changes have really started happening. I'm like, I throw me in that category. My life is changing at the moment. Moment where, like all of a sudden, we had a couple of just really good solid years where people were so married to their rate that they weren't leaving their house. Well, four years later, a lot can change in that time. If you haven't kept up with your clients and if you haven't kept up with their lives, now is the time to call and do those check-ins of like, hey, what have you been up to the last four years? What life changes have you experienced? Because I know personally, here's what I have going on. And really opening up those conversations, sometimes with that little hint of vulnerability, will actually get people to talk to you because all of a sudden they understand, like, hey, wait a second, you do understand what I'm going through. Oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that. Or yeah, my kid is really close to going to college. I need to figure out how I'm going to pay for this. Whatever the case may be, not being afraid to get a little vulnerable with your clients. We we need that. We need that type of connection. And that really is again just going to help set you apart from people who maybe are just calling a lead that they with the sale, missing the route.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Understand what actually people need.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Bingo. So like a big change is I feel like last year, like when you and I met, we were like kind of talking about AI. Like we had one or like everything now is AI. It's crazy.

unknown 23:29

Everything.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Everything. And I'm like, it's still just getting started. There's still so much more. And the way that I think we're going to continue to watch it revolutionize, it is, it's, it's going to get wild. It's going to get wild. But I'm like, there's no putting that genie back in that bottle. It's out. Figure out how to leverage it to your biggest and highest advantage at this point. Exactly. It's not going to go away at this point.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

It's just going to get more advanced.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

So into your uh advocacy. What other inspiration are you a part of and what's going on in those groups right now?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

As you know, I am I am a women's woman. Um, I am a board member of the MWLC, so the Mortgage Women Leadership Council. Love that cause. I I really think that everyone belongs to or should belong to some sort of advocacy group. It is so important. This industry needs more voices surrounding and championing the causes around it. Something that I would love to encourage even the men to do is to get involved. I'm like, we as women love a strong ally. We want those allies, please. And if you really want to set yourself apart, get involved with a women's group, show them that you actually care, show them that you're showing up for them. It's a weird time to be a woman right now. It's a hard time. It's always been a hard time. Always it hasn't changed. It's not really much easier. And I've been seeing more and more reports about Gen Z and their relationship to women and how it's actually trending in the wrong direction. And there's there's a lot of, again, without getting too dark, there is a lot coming out right now where it's like, well, whoa, wait a second. Why has this become some sort of accepted attitude toward women? And just because women stand up for themselves or stand up for other women, it doesn't mean that they're anti-mam. It just means that we we need to find strength in numbers. We need to find that allyship. Show that you're an ally and mean it. And that's something that again, I I never thought would become a cause of mine to champion. But it's like now that I've gone this way, I'm like, oh, there ain't no going back. I'm like, I got your back. I got your back. Come on, like get in line.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I love the same, I love when men join into on the women's events and like hear the things that women are dealing with. Um, we did a panel, Amanda Pat and I, at the conference in Jersey last month. And I think our room ended up being probably like half men.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

So just like the opportunity then for them to hear and like actually start to understand the things that we see and experience is amazing because, like, like you said, they're gonna learn from it and then they're gonna be your ally in the end.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah. Well, and representation matters. So women can't and aren't always in every single room. So if we can have an ally there representing some of our best interests, that just helps us go so much further faster.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yes, completely. Um, what advice would you give to women who are newer in the industry?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Oh, girl, grow a thick skin and grow it quick.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

I know. I'm like, that's usually my advice and be careful. I'm always like, be careful. Things that seem too good to be true usually are. So you have to be very careful.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah. No one will have your own back but you is one of my biggest lessons that I've learned. No one will look out for your best interests but you. You have to be the steward of yourself and keep your worth so high. Know what your worth is, know what you will and won't tolerate. And then don't be afraid to speak up for yourself and to champion for yourself and understand that as you champion other women, you will shift that narrative, you will shift that dynamic. Other women will start to have your back, but there has been so much of this kind of cattiness that would was so prevalent. And I do feel like that is starting to shift as more and more women are just championing each other and having each other's back. But do it in front of each other, do it without the other one there, do it in the rooms that they're not present in. Because the more yeah, make it genuine. Exactly. The more that you show up and the more that you put that out there, the more it normalizes it, the more it empowers other women to do the same. And it really does just catch and perpetuate.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

So I think that's I think that's great advice. I think my advice also would be to find a friend, someone you can trust, make sure that you take people. I think that you should take people's advice. I know that that's hard. If you hear people that you trust say something, try to listen to it. Um, I think as women, we're often, like you're saying, like the cattiness piece comes up where people will give you bad advice or lead you like down a path so that they could get ahead of you on the other path. So learn who you can trust and stick with them. You need everyone needs a little crew and ally of friends in the space.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

100%. Totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Okay. So before we're almost out of time, we only have a minute. So I already told you about these, but I'm gonna show them to you and then everyone on the call can see them too. So I had our little conference slides and made. So when you see Ladonna and I rocking these at the next conference, you'll know that you saw them here first. I'm gonna have to mail you yours so you actually haven't um excited to wear them with our little lanyards.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I am so excited. I love these so much.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

It really I'm gonna carry. We were just talking about that. Okay. I'm not gonna mail it then. I'll just bring it to you.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Okay, perfect. Oh, I can't wait. I will rep you all day. You know I will.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

All right. And one last question before I let you go here and everybody else. Um, what do you want women listening today to walk away with? Any last advice?

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Know that you're worth it. Know that you're worth it. Know that you're worth the time, you're worth the investment, you're worth taking care of, you're worth investing in yourself, whether it be education, a coach, your mental health, your physical health, your spiritual health, whatever it is, you are worth it. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Thank you so much for joining me today, Ladonna. We'll catch up soon and I'll see you at secondary with our pins. I can't wait. All right. Bye. Thanks, everybody.