Lending Leaders: Voices of The Industry – Featuring David Gunn of Sibcy Cline

Hosted by OMBA Executive Director Rich Swerbinsky, Lending Leaders: Voices of the Industry is a monthly conversation with some of the most prominent and forward-thinking leaders in mortgage lending.

This episode features special guest David Gunn, a former OMBA president and the current president at Sibcy Cline Mortgage Services, to discuss running mortgage inside a real estate company, the current market, and much more.  

From market trends and regulatory shifts to innovation, leadership, and the future of lending, this series gives listeners direct access to authentic conversations with the people driving change in the industry.

Originally aired live on September 24, 2026.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:05

Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Rich Swarbinski. I'm the executive director of the Ohio Mortgage Bankers Association. This is our one of our recurring monthly podcasts called Lending Leaders, Voices of the Industry, where we like to, yeah, just feature one of our great lender leader members uh from the state of Ohio here. And uh just yeah, kind of have a discussion with them about what's the current state of the industry, what's going on inside of their shop, uh, and uh yeah, see if any questions come in from our live audience. And if you're listening to this on a podcast or watching on YouTube where most of you consume, I I've got to remember to start being better. But mentioning at the beginning, we do all of these live. So it's fun. Faces with names. We're watching a live audience kind of stream in here right now as as we get get rolling. Um, but just go to ohiomba.org and go to our event calendar, and you can sign up for any of our webinarslash pod events, the live version. So there we go. So, and uh very special guest this month on lending leaders. Always love when we have a past president of the OMBA that we can have join us. And that is exactly what we have this week as we're joined by David Gunn of Sibsey Klein. David, thank you so much for joining us. And uh how are you doing this afternoon?

unknown 1:30

Good.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Hey Beverridge, thanks for having me. And uh yeah, you know, love what you're doing with the OMBA and I appreciate you uh asking me to join.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Absolutely. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun, more fun to come, and uh looking forward to the conversation. So uh, David, you were a past president of Olympia. What year exactly were you president?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

You know, so I think approximately 2012, 2013. And I think as time goes by, I can't remember exactly, but somewhere in that realm, um 2012 feels like a long time ago. We were gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah, it's because it was a long time ago. But uh yeah, but uh I mean that was something that was post uh post-mortgage meltdown, which was 07-08. Uh there was some still still a weird time for the industry in 12 and 13. It was starting to heal. Um, but it was I still remember that being kind of a weird, a weird phase for the mortgage industry.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, I think uh, you know, back then it was you know just coming out of the foreclosure crisis, and it felt like you know, we had nothing but properties. We're talking about foreclosures and all that kind of things, and we had you know tons of properties and and no buyers for the properties, right? It felt like back then, and then it's you know kind of the opposite of what we see today, right? We have lots of buyers, lots of people that want to become homeowners, um, that uh and not enough inventory, right? Not enough houses for them. Yeah, so it's flipped the script in that time frame.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yep. And that was Marian Collins was executive. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, good. Yeah, incredible, just yeah, yeah, leader in our industry for many years, did great work with the OMBA. So very cool. And David, if you could just tell our audience a little bit about Sibcy Klein.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, so no great. So, you know, so um Sibsi Klein, you know, we're part of Sipsi Klein, is the biggest independent real estate company in um, you know, Greater Cincinnati, Date, Northern Kentucky, so southwest part of the state. And um, you know, companies that real estate company's been around for almost a hundred years. And the mortgage company, Sibsi Klein Mortgage, you know, we're a small IMB and been in business for 43 years. And um, you know, I had the chance to come to Sipsi Klein uh three years ago, and uh when the lady that Pat Keith or that had started it and ran it for a long time retired. And so I had an opportunity to join it. And um, you know, it's a great local family-owned organization and culture. And uh so, you know, and and we're you know, we're a small IMB. So um, you know, and I you know, in my career, I've had the fortune to work on pretty much all different models in the business, you know, and and I really you know like the small IMB model.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

So it's very cool, yeah. You can you can like do what you want, be nimble. Um, you know, it's you're really, really close to customers and employees, and it's it's the most gratifying, I think, uh, you know, of all the all the business models, at least from what I've observed over the years.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yes. Yeah, no, so and and they're all you know, there's lots of good business models, lots of great companies, you know, across the state, know one's better than the other. Just you know, they're all just a little bit different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Um, so and then mortgage inside a real estate company, uh, you know, like what makes it work, right? The agent's relationship is with the brokerage or not the LO, yet you're trying to build those bridges and that cohesion. Uh, any any uh you know tips or things that you've seen that it really helped your loan originators, yeah, just get more loans from those SIBC agents?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, so I mean, you know, I mean, my whole career I've you know been part of it in the industry calling on real estate agents, right? And when you're in the when you're in embedded with a real estate company, um, and actually in our case have the same name, you know, we actually have a higher standard because you know, that agent's name is on the line when they use us. You know, that brand name is on the line. So we have a very high standard to live up to with the agent. Um, but I think you know, one of the biggest misconceptions I think people outside of that have is that well, the agents just give you the business, right? Because you're you're their in-house lender. And that's absolutely not the case. You know, they're independent contractors, um, and we have to earn their business just like anybody else. So it's no different here than it was when I worked at other, you know, outside a real estate company. You know, we have to earn the business because we're good at what we do, because we deliver on time, you know, we make it a good experience, we communicate, all those things matter just as much on inside as it is outside.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Any idea the national capture rate of real estate owned mortgage company? I remember it like 15 to 20 percent, I feel like is what I've heard, like 17, 18, I feel like is the national average number I've heard. So to your point, right, like less than less than one of five, right? When many assume all are going.

unknown 6:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, it's not um, yeah, it's probably somewhere in that 15 to 17 range nationally. And you know, it's it's a lot different than like if it's a builder's mortgage company where there's a big incentive given to the buyer to use them, you know, we don't have that. There's no incentive to the buyer. You don't give free basements away uh on your uh free basements, yeah. People ask, but no, yeah. So we don't have there's no incentive. So we just you know the incentive has to be that we're good at what we do, right? And we provide a good value. And um it's but there's nothing like that. And I think that you know, one one of the trends in our industry, every conference I'm at, we talk about it in the mortgage industry is you know, lenders getting to the customer first. Um you know, when I started back in this industry in the 90s, you know, I worked for a real estate company, I worked as a loan officer inside of you know a real estate company, and uh the agents were all in the office, and um, you know, you had a chance to earn their business that way. Um, and and the you know, clients would go to the agent to direct them for financing. Okay, where should I go? Today, you know, lenders were getting to the customer first. Yeah. So by the time an agent works with them, many times they've already connected with a lender. So it's a little bit different world today than it was, you know, back when I started.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

It really is. It's got to be tougher. I mean, everybody's got like everybody's data now, and there's you know, there's alignments with the big real estate platforms nationally, and like to your point, and then it's been slow for like five years. So people are very aggressive and reaching out to people that they know are house hunting. I mean, it's had to be actually one of the tougher climates, probably, uh, you know, just given all that, no?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, no, I think this has been um in my what 32 years in the business, these last few years have been the hardest. And uh it's been tough for you know the whole industry, you know, real estate, mortgage, whatever. And um, you know, and and um you just have to kind of, you know, we just have to kind of fight through it and just focus on activities and prospecting and and doing all those proper sales activities every day. And you know, that it's there's business out there, there's plenty of business out there. It's just the easy stuff's not there.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, that's what we'd say. We were both at the mortgage collaborative conference this week, and I just I heard a lot of that. Like the deals are like, you know, they're all tough. A lot of non-conventional, and you know, even the even the ones that appear clean, you know, it's just kind of a you know, it's it's kind of a tricky, tricky market right now, to be sure. So yeah. What are you seeing just in the like uh you know, down in in southern Ohio and northern Kentucky? I mean, nationally, right? Inventory's up. I think and I think inventory nationally is close to like a 10-year high. Obviously, affordability is challenged with rates, and I think it feels like you know, home prices need to come down a little bit here, even even if we were to get a more favorable, you know, interest rate situation.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, so you so I'll tell you, like in the Cincinnati market, it's still a seller's market for the most part. Awesome. Um, and you know, if we say like a you know, a balanced market is what five to six months of inventory. Right now, it's inventory levels in the Cincinnati area are still less than three months. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Wow, why is that?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Uh David, any uh, you know, you know, you know, I you know, I think um maybe people are more conservative and you know all the people locked in at the low rates are moving like they used to, um, but definitely still under three months on the inventory side. Um, you know, we have you know, we've seen it cool off a little bit. We're not seeing the um you know frantic multiple offers on houses, you know, we're not seeing people skipping inspections like they were a few years ago. You know, buyers are becoming more discerning of the property. You know, a few years ago that might have not have been the case. Um, so we're not seeing as many over um list offers. So it's cooling a little bit, but it's still not there. Um, I would say that the high-end market is doing really well. You know, that's one piece where it's really booming and it's it's still really, really strong. Um but a stat I saw the other day, like in the Cincinnati market, was you know, at the peak here of um a couple years ago, you know, the average home is selling for like 103% of list price. It's being there just offers over list. Now it's down to like 99% of list price. So it's coming back to a normal, but it's not there yet.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah. What is normal historic? Like 95%, 90%?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I've heard 95-96% is probably kind of historically normal. Yeah, that makes sense. So uh anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Very cool. Uh a couple of years ago, the big the big uh NAR National Association of Realtors cla uh class action and settlement was massive news a couple summers ago. Um, and you know, really at the time, you know, a lot of people were surmising that it was going to be a complete shakeup of how real estate agents are paid and buyers agents, sellers' agents. It two years down, it's kind of feels like much ado about nothing, but you're way closer than it to me. I guess give us the the diagnosis and the analysis of that part of the business a couple years after that landmark settlement.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, I think, you know, honestly for us it's been business as usual. You know, I it hasn't been that, you know, I think um the agents, it's still um, we're still educating, you know, buyers on what that means to them. And but in general, it's been fairly non-issue. Yeah, you know, but but still in the education mode. And a lot of people, you know, you don't buy or sell a house that often. So somebody that's maybe done it a few times might have to be educated on how that works today versus how it was when they you know bought their house, you know, eight years ago or whatever. Um so but it's still so still education mode, but in general working smoothly and uh not a huge disruption or change right then.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

You know, at the time a lot of people, the most popular prediction I think was that buyer agent commission would come down, right? Because of whatever, you know, Zillow and AI and search tools and you know, and you know, but but what we failed to anticipate is it's been a very challenging just market for buyers, right? And like never before has the sage wisdom of an experienced human that lives it every day like been. I mean, so I think that's like, you know, I mean, it's at least been my perspective from a broader perch than yours, but what say you?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, no, I think I think it's given the um you know the realtors a chance to really explain to a client the value that they provide. And so I like that. And I think a lot of good agents have embraced that. Yeah, and now they can better explain here's what I'm gonna do and why you want me to represent you. And now we have a more formalized agreement. So I like a lot of pieces of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

So the recruiting side of the business, uh, David, you know, just it's also challenging right now. Like again, everybody's got everybody's data. Um, and uh, you know, the big keep getting bigger in mortgage, right? And just have like rooms full of people and like headsets, throwing the mini football in the air to themselves, you know, styling away. Um, you know, you have the inherent benefit of you have kind of an embedded, you know, like lead partner, I guess. Uh how has the recruiting side of the business been for you? Any tips, tricks? Um, and uh are there certain types of LOs that tend to do better at an affiliated shop?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, so I think you know, recruiting, like, you know, there's all these different business models, and there's no right or wrong. It's just finding what's a good fit for each you know person, right? You know, what fits mine? They're all a little bit different. Um, so one's not better than the other. Um, you know, for us, I mean, you know, we're a family-owned local company. So we, you know, definitely look for people that are that value that value local, value being part of a family organization. Um, that that's important for us. Um, and you know, I think there's, you know, for you know, the bigger get bigger, right? And they grow, you know, well, the smaller companies can provide maybe more flexibility, you know, more access to decision makers, more voice in kind of what we're doing as a company. So I think there's, you know, we you know, talk about that as an advantage for us, you know, for smaller companies today. You know, so there's more of a display, you know, there's bigger and bigger, and then there's you know, some smaller players. So it's just finding the right, you know, fit for you and culture. It's all about culture, right? And just where do you fit, where do you feel comfortable, where can you learn and grow in your career.

unknown 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

So important. That's kind of what I see. And you know, but we I mean we have a high standard for customer service, our reputation is on the line, you know, and and if you're if you're at an affiliated company, you know, and and and you make a mistake on a deal or blow it up, your reputation's hurt in that office, and that office is your business. So you have a higher standard to stick to.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Especially with with 30 of your competitors, yeah, calling in the realtor, begging for exactly and and well, you know, and and and there's and a lot of the competitors are really good.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

They're good at what they do. They're great at what they do, they got great technology, you know. Um, so we're competing with a players for the business.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

I mean, we talk about all the time on this show. I mean, Ohio is loaded. I mean, between some of the big banks like Fifth Third, Huntington, Union, some of the big IMBs, cross country, union home, uh, nations, uh, you know, others I'm I'm forgetting. It uh it's a it's a competitive marketplace. I think it's the seventh or eighth most mortgage business in units uh in America.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

So lots of competitive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

So it's it's interesting. Like we look at the data from our agents, and you know, it's it's very fragmented though. You know, there's no like dominant, you know, there's a lot of different companies getting a piece of the business. So it's very fragmented.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, AI and tech, David, we both just had the opportunity to spend the last few days down in Austin, Texas, uh, at the conference of a national organization we're both involved with, the Mortgage Collaborative. It's you know, like OMBA kind of national, a lot of lenders just trying to get together, exchange ideas, best practices, talk about experiences with technology, third-party providers. So there are a lot of technology and vendor providers that are part of that network. Um, would love to hear just, yeah, your full take on the last few days. You just had a chance to speak with lenders all across America, see tech, 60, 70 different vendors in attendance. I would love to just like just brain dump on us. Like uh, you know, these last few days, what were you in what was impressed upon you? Um, and yeah, any takeaways, notes, uh, or things that that you found interesting?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I think like I think it's just moving so you know, so fast in our industry. It's changing just so fast, and it's like overwhelming to a degree, you know, of like, gosh, what should we do? Um, and I think the thing my takeaway was, you know, you first we've just got to, you know, we've got to embrace AI and and how does it make us better, you know, faster, more efficient, help our employees, help our, you know, make it easier for our customers. Um, but but still it's about you know us being a human being and being behind that. And and that's first and foremost what we what we want to do. And then we just like, how does AI kind of support that? You know, does it take some tasks away? I'm like asking the question, you know, should a human be doing this task? Yeah, right, or could AI do that? And then the human can spend more time on relationship building or communicating or something like that. Um, so um, you know, we you know, just as a you know company, we use Blend, you know, on the front end as a point of sale and they're a phenomenal partner. You know, they're building a lot of AI into their system. You know, we use Encompass, you know, it feeds into, we have a CRM. And um, you know, so one of the advantages of having a partner like Blend is they're building a lot of it in so we don't have to add on all these different vendors too much. You know, they're adding in um a lot of you know all kinds of things to make you know AI you know help us in our process. Um, so just leaning into partnerships with people you work with is important. It really is. But I think over the next you know, you know, 12 to 24 months, the landscape's gonna look a lot different in our business. You know, and and it's it can be a little overwhelming, I think, for especially smaller companies.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

This is lending leaders, voices of the industry. I'm Rich Swarbinski, the executive director of the Ohio Mortgage Bankers Association, and uh happy to be joined this week by past president of the OMBA, David Gunn of Sib Cline, and uh David AI, you mentioned it. Like, you know, I think one of the a lot of the discussions I heard this week, like lenders like, you know, are how are your employees are your employees like using Chat GPT or Claude? Like, I think lenders are all over the place with this. From some have like purchased like enterprise versions and are controlling it and putting guardrails around it and and encouraging the use to trying to figure it out to just like the Wild West and everybody's kind of doing everything. Where where are you guys at with all that?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, so we I mean we use like in our like we use Copilot a lot, and we, you know, most of our staff uses you know ChatGPT or Claude. So I think um a lot of it is just encouraging your team to lean into it and just to start to, you know, can I use it? Can I get you know updates on mortgage guidelines through AI? Can I build a marketing piece in AI? You know, just starting to lean into it and get comfortable with it is important as a company, right? And uh you don't have to be an expert, but you got to start using it. And I think that's a good message for all of our staff. And you know, we we try to try and encourage that with all of our people. And uh definitely we're seeing a lift in marketing, you know, communications, um, all kinds of pieces.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah, one of the other topics that rooms it just was was like the AI governance uh sessions as well. Like, you know, all this AI, you great partners like Blend that are embedding AI into their platforms, no shortage of standalone AI companies trying to get SIPSC clients. You're you're doing some your own stuff like most lenders are, you know, just encouraging the use of AI by employees where it makes sense. And uh yeah, so but the governance piece of it is, you know, it it's I those sessions were packed, and I think lenders are really like they understand this is going to be an increasing part of their business, and they want to ensure that they have the proper guardrails and controls to prevent, you know, any of the nightmare, you know, scenarios that that run through their heads.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, no, I think it it's a little scary, right? Of what you think of what could happen or what have you. And I think the best advice I've gotten on it is just start small, just like build start small pieces in your in your process, um, and not trying to just recreate a whole thing, but just start small and look for small wins that are controlled, that you feel comfortable about, fit within your guidance, you know, what have you, and just just keep building on that versus trying to just totally redo something or you know using AI. Yeah. Just start to, you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, no, yeah, I'm with you. So and then David, as somebody's been involved with this organization for a long time, I'd I'd love free. You to just, you know, speak to our audience, maybe those uh in the audience that aren't members of OMBA, uh, just some of the things maybe you're getting out of the organization and uh yeah, just some of the things it's done for you in your career.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah. So I mean, I think, you know, being involved for me, I just I've met so many great people. I learned so much about our business, you know, and I think I've learned, you know, you have to advocate for your business, right? For your company, your industry. And um, you know, I think um, you know, what you've done with the OMBA, the the conference that we had in the spring was the best one I've ever been at in my career. So can you know, thank you for that. And I know we've got another one coming up here, you know, uh here in December. And so, you know, I think um, but just getting involved, meeting people, I think sharing with other competitors and ideas, you know, we're all trying to figure it out. And I think the OMBA, you know, advocates for mortgage bankers in the state, but also you know provides a platform for people to share ideas and network and uh navigate kind of all these changes together, right? I think we're all on the same page. And and um I think the you know, definitely from talking to people around the country, you know, the OMBA is one of the strongest, you know, state organizations out there. So don't take that for granted. You know, just we I appreciate that so much when I talk to people in other states that aren't doing what we're doing here in Ohio, right? And so I think you just you got to get involved. You'll you know, and if somebody's younger in their career, you know, you're gonna really learn and grow by being a part of all the you know the OMBA does.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

So we're just getting started, honestly. There's so many fun things that we could do. And uh if you want to get involved with OMBA, join a committee. Uh, you know, we're constantly adding new board members every year. Joining a committee is a great way to get involved with the org, meet some new people, um, and yeah, decide if maybe you want to do a little bit more. So get a hold of me, get a hold of David, get a hold of anybody at OMBA, and uh we we would be glad to add you to a committee. And David also mentioned the holiday conference that we're doing December 6 to 8. Home for the holidays. We have a loaded, I mean loaded lineup of speakers with more coming. Um, we're gonna do a big, huge, fun Christmas party, uh, the one night. Uh go to OhioMBA.org if you want to learn more about home for the holidays. So David, any final thoughts, takeaways for our listeners as we conclude this week's episode?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah, no, I appreciate uh you know, I appreciate you having me. And um, you know, I think that you know the business, you know, it's it's gonna, I think the next you know, six months is gonna be a little challenging for all of us. And and you just I think you know, just leaning into um you know learning and growing and making our your business better is what you gotta do. And uh, you know, and uh and at some point we'll get some you know tailwinds from market instead of headwinds, right? Always have. And uh, you know, one speaker at at the Morris Library said, remember, every day you're one day closer to a great market.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

That's a great way to that's a great quote.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

That's a great way to look at the business, but you know, just I think taking the time to just improve our business, improve everything we do and get better right, and uh, you know, it is the best advice I guess I can give at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

So love it. Words of wisdom from one of our state and our industry's uh great leaders, David Gunn, Sibcy Klein. Thank you so much for uh taking uh time to be with us today on the show and all that you and and Sibsi do as uh very engaged OMBA members. Greatly appreciate you and Sibsi Klein. All right, well thanks, thanks, Rich. Awesome. And uh once again, uh OhioMBA.org to find out everything we're doing at OMBA. And if you're listening to this on pod, you can also go there and register for the live versions. And uh want to thank you for taking some time today to join us. And uh, we'll see you next month on Lending Leaders Voices of the Industry. Uh until then, have a great rest of the week, and we'll see you soon. Take care, everyone. Thanks, David. Thank you.