Spiked Out
Welcome to the Spiked Out Podcast - your go-to for real stories, real people, and real insight from the wildland fire world. Brought to you by The Journeyman, we interview seasoned pros, share education, tips on getting certified, landing jobs, and making the most of the season. Whether you're already on the line or just getting started, we've got you covered. Tune in and get Spiked Out with us.
Spiked Out
The One Thing Every Wildland Fire Department Gets Wrong
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Building a REMS team isn't optional anymore — it's how you keep your wildland firefighters alive when extraction goes sideways. And most departments wait until it's too late.
In this episode, John Hennessey — retired Air Force officer, former Booz Allen Hamilton program manager, and one of the architects of Dammeron Valley Fire Rescue — breaks down how to actually launch a Rapid Extraction Module Support (REMS) team without the budget, the bureaucracy, or the decade most departments think it takes.
What we cover:
- The "speed of need" framework that forces decisions instead of endless planning
- How to write a statement of need that gets grants funded
- Why cost-schedule-performance thinking from defense programs works for fire service
- Setting measurable response time targets — and proving you hit them
- Building a fire and EMS training pipeline when you can't hire certified people
- How Greg McKeown and Liz Wisemans "Multipliers" leadership model wins in volunteer fire departments
- How a "Volunteer Firefighters Needed" sign on a mailbox turned into one of Southern Utah's most operationally serious volunteer fire departments
📌 If this episode gave you something useful — subscribe, drop a comment with the one lesson you're taking back to your crew, and share it with a fire service leader who needs to hear it.
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0:00 The Mailbox Sign That Started It
3:00 Air Force Roots And Booz Allen Lessons
8:00 Turning A Volunteer Crew Into A System
15:58 Multipliers Versus Oxygen Thieves
22:35 Cost Schedule Performance For Fire Rescue
26:23 Building Utah’s First REMS Team
30:58 Speed Of Need And Modern Gear
There was a sign on the door at the mailbox. I lived on top of a mountain and uh said volunteer firefighters needed. And I called up, said what's the age limit. They said there isn't one. All right, I'm in. And then in 2007, we started our own fire department within our community. Great help from Manitou Springs and all the other volunteer fire departments. That kind of got everything going for me. And I've read a lot of leadership books and all that. This one's a little bit different. It's called Multipliers by Liz Weissman. And I don't know the author, but I've seen a lot of her videos and I read the book. And as I read the book, I kept thinking, what are we doing here at Dameron? Some of this stuff is what exactly what we've we've been trying to do.
SPEAKER_03Well, another episode of the Spiked Out Podcast. We got a couple extra people here. Brennan Hill as a co-host. Morning, morning. Thank you for 2 30, but I'm saying morning. Yeah. And our guest today, uh John Hennessy, thank you for being here. We're excited. Tyler and I are just getting to meet you. Brennan's known you for a little bit longer, so I'll let you do the introduction here and we'll dive into it. Yeah, sounds great. Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_05So let's see, just as a background, John, I think you and I met about three years ago. Is that about right? Yep. All right. And I met through a mutual friend uh who knew Ryan D'Ambrosio. He was the uh deputy chief at Dameron Valley Fire Rescue. Been there for a number of years. How long were you at Damron Valley at that point?
SPEAKER_00I got there on 4 January 2021.
SPEAKER_05Got it. Yep. During the COVID era. And I was gonna retire and just be done with the fire service.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I got a call from the chief up there, and he said, Hey, I could use some training help. And all right, I'll do it. Yeah, awesome.
SPEAKER_05So I'm still there. You're still there.
SPEAKER_00Even though I retired as a chief, I'm still there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a I feel like you're gonna have a hard time giving that up. I know that's really good. We'll see. So for everybody that uh is unaware, Dammer Valley Fire Rescue is a small volunteer department, well, part-time department now on SR18. Yeah. Uh just located right out of St. George, Utah, in southern Utah.
SPEAKER_00How many acres does or out what's your area that So the fire acreage is uh just under four square miles that we cover from a fire response perspective, from an EMS perspective? It's about 110 square miles. Yeah. Yeah. Up and down the highway and the other districts and all that for the volunteer departments.
SPEAKER_05Plenty of area for life light for sure. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You guys have called up a number of times.
SPEAKER_00A number of times. Merci Air as well out of Nevada.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um, it's so far, man, it's been awesome with Dameron Valley just getting everything started. And I think one of the things we want to talk about later on is how we started this Rams deal uh here in the state of Utah. Uh but for everybody listening, if you want to give just like a two or five minute, however you're feeling, sure, background about yourself and that'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, cool. So uh 17 grew up in New England, couldn't wait to get out of there. Uh couldn't imagine why. Joined the Air Force at 17, uh, was an avionics technician on the old F-111s. So I was avionics on C 53. That's cool. I did my homework before I got here. That's super cool.
SPEAKER_05Except you did it in the Marines. I don't think it doesn't matter. Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, so was in the Air Force for 24 years, uh, did a whole boatload of things. Uh after the 10-year point, uh got commissioned and uh and then got in the space business. So I like to tell people I was in the Space Force before there was a space force. Started out uh launching satellites out of Anneberg Air Force Base and did manned space flight at Johnson Space Center and and then just kept on with it. Um and then ultimately after 24 years, change was needed. So then I became a defense contractor, got a job with a company up in Colorado Springs, retired out of San Antonio, got a job with uh a company that uh said, Hey, would you go to Colorado Springs? And I went, Yeah, I'll go there. So that first three years of being a contractor, um, you know, you go from being an acquisition officer, which is what I was, to a contractor. It's different. Yeah, it's like becoming a second lieutenant after you're already an NCO. It's hard. Um, but it worked all worked out great. And then ultimately in 2003, and this was the game changer for my career, uh, I got on with Booz Allen Hamilton and uh great defense company. Uh I will tell you that that company changed my life um with the the effort that they put into me uh as a leader and as a business manager and as an executive.
SPEAKER_01So what year would that have been?
SPEAKER_00That was in 2003.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah. That's a busy time to start in the defense contracting industry for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they're a very aggressive company. Um, but everybody that works there is just top-notch. So from the leadership on down to the consultants and senior consultants. Uh so great time. So I learned quite a bit. Um a lot of my leadership experience that I had in the military doesn't necessarily apply when you're a contractor, but it's a different world that you have to learn and apply when you're on the other side of the the aisle. And so uh so I did that up until 2018 and uh built a business with great help from great leaders and all that on the corporate side. Uh had great partners um that worked with me. None of us are successful on our own for sure when you're running a portfolio that's worth millions of dollars and things like that. But uh came that came to an end in 2018 and uh 2019. I figured, all right, I'm gonna do this wildland fire thing for real. I got into the fire service after I retired from the military in 2000. In 2000, um there was a sign on the door at the mailbox. I lived on top of a mountain and uh said volunteer firefighters needed. And I called up, said, What's the age limit? They said, There isn't one. All right, I'm in. So that's when I kind of got in the fire service. So all that time I Where was that? That's in Colorado Springs.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in um not in Colorado Springs proper, but it was uh in a little community called Manitou Springs, which is west of Colorado Springs, when you're heading up to Woodland Park on Highway 24. And then in 2007, we started our own fire department within our community. Great help from Manitou Springs and all the other volunteer fire departments. And uh that kind of got everything going for me. Um and then once I retired from Booz Allen, it was okay, I think I can, I'm still fit enough. I can do this for real. And uh even though I was old, um they made it happen. So I've been doing it since since I retired from Booze Allen and and then the Rems team just became another evolution of building a business, which is what we do at Booz Allen. You build portfolios and businesses, and then you hand them off to somebody else who's coming up and you go do it again. So as soon as I heard it, it was intriguing, and all those skills I had, I was like, Yeah, we can do that. So aside from transforming the Damon Valley Fire Department, which is what I helped the original chief do until I until I took over, um, you know, forming the REMs team, forming the wildland pro wildland fire program and all that was was part of the challenge that we had as a department.
SPEAKER_03And what year was that when you were forming the REMs team part of it?
SPEAKER_00That REMs came in 2024. Okay. Uh the transformation of the department started in September of 2020. The uh the district had had enough of the volunteer side of it, and they said we need something different up here.
SPEAKER_03Like the volunteer side of REMs and rope rescue? No, the volunteer side inspired in general.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it and you know, the volunteer side of it, it's hard to get people these days to join. And and uh the interesting thing that that I've always noticed in life is, you know, I I I try not to have to motivate people to do anything. If I got to motivate you to come to work, well, I'm not I'm never gonna inspire you. I'd rather have you self-motivate and then I'm gonna inspire you beyond that to achieve your aspirations. And so we've done pretty good in the transformation of the department. It's now a combination department. We've got paid staff. There's about 70 people on our roster. Uh, we have a reserve program, an intern program. We built a fire training center, fire and EMS training center. So we've pumped out more EMTs and advanced EMTs and firefighters than you can imagine.
SPEAKER_03That's super cool.
SPEAKER_00It's all it's all excellent stuff for the state of Utah and some people have even gotten work down at Clark County in Nevada and over at Henderson. Uh so we're we're pretty excited of all the accomplishments in such a short amount of time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And if someone was interested to go and get their EMT or AMT or whatever, at uh where would they go or how would they get in contact to the Trevor Burrus, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Here in Southwest Utah, they got several options. Southwest Tech up in Cedar, they can go to Dixie Tech, they can come to the Dameron Valley Fire Department, just go on our website, dvfirescue.org. Um our training center runs runs those classes throughout the year. We have we run one fire academy every year, starts in the August time frame. And we we pump out 20 plus. The last three years we pumped out 20 plus firefighters with their certifications and all that.
SPEAKER_03We know those academies are big, big ticket items on the contractor side, I think, because there's people looking to get into fire that want that one kind of stop shop to get in, have some field time and hands-on rather than just the online classes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So as you guys know, you know, in the military, you got initial qualification training when you go to your beginning tech schools and all that. Um, like you and I, we went to electronics before we could learn the systems on the aircraft and all that, right? Yeah. So we teach the IQT side of it. Uh all the curriculum is from the Utah Fire and Rescue Academy up in Provo. They provide their curriculum. We provided the instructors. And um, and then once they get to their real job, where some of them either are come with us uh as reserves or interns, others will go to they'll get hired by St. George as part-time or Santa Clara or Washington City, Hurricane. Um, we've created a lot of firefighters that are on those departments, and we are damn proud of it. Um yeah, then they get their unit qualification training there.
SPEAKER_01Nice. Now that's structure fire, a part of that cranking out these firefighters, do they get their wildland certification?
SPEAKER_00It depends on the cycle they're in when they contact us. They will they some of them actually will start with the wildland side of it and get their S130, S190, all that done. Um, and then they'll be on board to start the fire academy when it starts. Um, and then in the middle of that is the EMS training that we do. Yeah. So it depends on when you come with the department and when we start and all that. So you can't get one ahead of the other. I mean, we're a fire department, right? We're a training center, we can do whatever we want.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um nice. So I mean, you mentioned that was in 2020, and you remind me when you got to Dammer Valley.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I got there beginning of January 2021. So the way the transformation started in September of 2020. Uh, the district, the board hired uh a professional firefighter who retired out of Las Vegas. They brought on Chief Barnes and uh awesome guy, awesome guy, awesome leader. And he began the process of all right, how am I gonna do this? And he created a strategic plan of the those objectives that we would have to accomplish to become a different fire department than just a day-to-day volunteer department with six, seven people. And so um that worked out real well. By the time we got he got to December, he knew he needed some help. And so uh him and I had met on a couple of fires and uh he saw me work and and I really wanted nothing to do with leadership after leaving Colorado, right? It's like all right, I've done I've got the chief t-shirt, I don't need that anymore. And so I came over and said, all right, uh he asked me to run his training. So I went, great, let's put a training center together. And we did that, and that began. I mean, we I got there on the 4th of January. We started training on the 10th of January in a snowstorm. We were not canceling training. It was gonna happen. This was the beginning of where we are today. Chamber minds. Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. It was great.
SPEAKER_01That's cool. Yep. What were some of the things that you knew right away you were gonna implement or change once you took over at the helm?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we knew we needed certified firefighters that had been gone through the training. Uh, you can't have people showing up that aren't certified. And so I had already started an academy, so to speak, at Diamond Valley, where I where I live, and did the first two academies out of there. And then we just took it over at Dameron because they pulled me over. I had left Diamond, and like I said, I was leaving the fire service. I was I was gonna retire. That was it. So, yeah. So what ended up happening was we we we just started focusing on for business owners, it's a make or buy decision. And so we had no money, you can't buy them, so we had to make them. So we created the center to make them, and then we pulled in other people to help with the instruction, people that are certified. The Utah Fire and Rescue Academy was a phenomenal partner in helping us with the curriculum and all that. I mean, they just gave it to us and said, here's how we do it in in Utah. Um, John, this isn't Colorado. I got it. I got it. So you know, you just once you once you understand the game and you start playing the game, um, it it turned out where we just started pumping out firefighters. And then other departments will sign up their firefighters for our academies. I think that first, that third academy that I did, the first one at Dameron, uh, there were 11 new candidates from Cedar Mountain.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00They they needed they needed they would be going through the same kind of transformation up there as well.
SPEAKER_03They needed qualified people.
SPEAKER_00So we put them in the academy and we'll run it. And so at the at the end, though, they gotta pass, they gotta pass all of their tests, they gotta pass all the skills, the live fire, all that kind of stuff. And Euphra comes down and independently tests everyone.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, it's uh it was the training center's been doing fantastic. So we're making we like to think that we're creating firefighters up at Damron Valley. And I think the uh departments that hire people that we produce uh have been happy with the product.
SPEAKER_01Did you have a strong training uh core of trainers when you started, or did you have to you know make that too?
SPEAKER_00Great question. So in the beginning we didn't, but when we had we brought on uh Ryan D'Ambrosio, firefighter who uh came up out of Perup, Nevada. We had Chief Barnes, we had me, uh we were all certified. And so we just dove in and took it on. So we were the cadre in the very beginning to create um to create the firefighters. And we were and we were also focused within we got to create these guys for the future here within here within Dierman Valley. So 2021 was a massive pivot to to the creation of uh that foundation we needed to be where we are today. So and Chief Barnes, he built that uh strategic plan that gave us those initial objectives, and one of them was you know, put a training program together, and we just went right to the training center. Uh and so, yeah, this is how we're gonna do it. Well, who said you could do that? Uh, I don't know, but this is how we're gonna do it. So, and then Chief Barnes left in March uh on March 31st, 2022, and the district asked me to stay on and take over the department, and I did for the next three years, and then in December 24 is when I kind of backed out. Um, I kind of have that military model of moving on. Um, you need other other thought leadership and intellectual capital to come in and take the department within that transformation. And so um it was time for the next guy. Um, I did all of what I was gonna do based on um my vision 2030 that I created on one April when I walked in, put a different badge on. We had vision 2030. Here's what we're gonna focus on by the year 2030 uh at this department. These are the big ticket items. We just moved out.
SPEAKER_01Nice. So it's really cool to think that far ahead. I struggle with that. Yeah. This will help you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. This will help you. Can we jump and talk about it? Yeah, let me. I I I was turned onto this book by uh a great friend of mine, uh business partner at uh in Albuquerque. Uh, she runs the business down there at For Booz Allen. And I don't remember when it was, two, three, four years ago, she turned me on to this book, asked me if I had heard about it. And I've read a lot of leadership books and all that. This one's a little bit different. It's called Multipliers by Liz Weissman. And I don't know the author, but I've seen a lot of her videos, and I read the book. And as I read the book, I kept thinking, what are we doing here at Dameron? Some of this stuff is what exactly what we've we've been trying to do. So, in essence, uh, I know you guys are running your own businesses and you're up and coming, and I don't know what your aspirations are for the future. 10 years out, five years out, maybe, even 20 years out, where you want this to go. But this will focus uh quite a bit on multipliers versus diminishers, right? The diminishers, I'll just summarize, are those are those leaders that think they're leaders, but they suck the oxygen out of the room. They piss everybody off all the time. Multipliers are the ones who get all that extraneous energy out of their employees. And the employees sometimes don't even know they're giving you that because you're treating them well. They feel like they've got ownership in the business, you're letting them make a whole lot of decisions, and you get to set back while they just run it. So I want to give you guys this book as you build your business and businesses, and uh just take a look at it, might be helpful in the future. I love the book. Um it's one of the best ones I've ever read.
SPEAKER_01Anytime someone says that, I have to check it out.
SPEAKER_05I have that book in my closet right now because of you, John. So in fact, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna take a minute, just embarrass it here real quick. I haven't told you this yet because I didn't want you to think that I was blowing up your ego. But far and away, I mean, after I've spent 13 years in the military, obviously on the reservist side, but also like six years in this industry, all through college, all these different uh aspects of my life, I've had leaders. I think by far you're one of the best I've ever encountered in the sense that man, I feel bad because I wish these guys, the people listening right now, had the same experience I've had with you sitting in a truck on fire rolls, up at the top of the mountain, just talking over these things. I think your experience in Booz Allen and then what you did in the Air Force, um, if I can't say this, we'll edit this part out, but you ran in doc for the PJs as well.
SPEAKER_00I thank God I didn't have to go through it. Yeah, right. And that's a whole interesting story how I got that job. Right. So, but yeah, I I was I was there with the cadre, um kind of leading that effort. But to be honest, the the PJs and combat controllers, the SEER instructors, the EOD instructors, for their selection classes before you get into those pipelines, they're the ones that really ran it. My job was to take care of them.
SPEAKER_05Right. Okay. But I think, you know, from what you've talked to us about, especially our small REMs team and the stories that you've shared, you were able to come in as an outsider, as a as a satellite guy. Right. Come into a group of high performing men and really own that role that you were in and and find wild success and and gain the respect of everybody around you. And I think that's one of the things that I've like admired most about spending time with you is is the way that you're able to lead a team. Um, and let alone for the fact, I mean, again, you're you're a spring chicken at this point. But how old are you right now, John? 67. 67 years old. And we were on the Forsyth fire up at 12,000 feet last year for two weeks, and you were sitting with me. I'm I'm I'm the other old guy, right? 35. Uh, but we also had two 20-year-olds on our REMs team, and we're at 12,000 feet hiking in with the shots up to the top of these peaks, and you are doing it. Like that, I hope to be in your shoes when I'm that age. I'm like, yeah, man, I'm still doing the thing. Uh age is just a number at this point, right?
SPEAKER_00I had a paramedical with me, thank God.
SPEAKER_05Um but again, like it the experience that we've had, I think if anybody is interested in and if you're willing to share reaching out um about how to grow their leadership style, grow businesses. Um, I think even with what you accomplished building the first REMs team here in Utah, I that that to me might as well have been that whole process is Chinese. I have no idea where it works on that side. I understand the private contractor side, but you were the one that spearheaded this whole system within the state of Utah to make this happen. If you don't mind, I mean, would you just talk about kind of that process and how that all came into being?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the military is where you get all the depth and breadth over all of your assignments and you and you learn, right? You make you make all the mistakes and you hope that you're working for a colonel or a general or a major, whoever, as you're coming up.
SPEAKER_01Can't get fired.
SPEAKER_00Right. That's gonna well, they're gonna but you want them to recognize your the the mistake is a mistake, and this is a guy we want to invest time in, even though he just screwed up. So life was like that for me as a 17-year-old airman basic who didn't know a damn thing. Um, every one of those kicks in the ass I got from the NCOs, I deserved every single one of them. Um, but you start to mature and uh then when you become an officer, it's a whole different thing, as as as you know. And you are always there's this thing we call officership. And none of these clicked until I got to Booz Allen in terms of real business. But as you're coming up, um you you you're learning from these people, and you don't know, all right, are these good leaders or bad leaders I'm learning from? Fortunately, um, I just kind of felt like I was getting something from both. The ones I didn't like and the ones I liked. And the ones I liked, those the ones I wanted to emulate. And so when you get into Booze Allen, it's a whole nother story. I'm retired. They hire you and they say, You're all right, we hired you to build a test and evaluation business. Um go forth and do it. And I went, okay, so what do I get to help me get started? I don't know. Welcome to Booze Allen. That's why we hired you. Thanks for a little bit. So, yeah, so you're literally no pun intended, the fire hose is on you and you and you need to succeed. And so, and I I'm always probably my weakness is afraid of failing. I don't like failing at anything. And so that there was that anxiety and all that in the very beginning. But the lifeblood of leaders uh is I think is partly tied towards your network and who you network with and who do you know. Well, when I retired from the military, I even as even in the rank I was in, I knew a lot of people in the space business where Bruce Allen was targeting to go after and and and hopefully have an opportunity to get business from those government clients. So over time, all that worked in in uh uh the business started to grow, your portfolio that you're response responsible for started to grow, you're getting insights from the partners on down, um you know, guidance on what's right, what's wrong, uh, how to move forward with this particular challenge versus that one. Uh so everybody's there to help you, but they do it in a completely different way. So when we talked about transform two kinds of leaders, right? Transactional leaders and transformational leaders. I kind of think of myself as someone who's transformational, right? Um I'm I try to think big. And I didn't get that from the military, I got that from industry. Think big, don't think small. Get further out the next week. Um, and so once you have all that uh knowledge, how do I how did I apply it to then transforming a fire department? Well, to me, it just kind of felt like, okay, I'm gonna treat this like a business, and I'm gonna apply uh quite a bit of what I learned as a contractor to treating this department like a business so it'll grow, as opposed to just trying to bring in people, um, put them through a little bit of training, and then maybe someday in a year they'll be qualified. No, we didn't have time for any of that. So, in treating it as a business, you got to focus on cost, schedule, performance, right? How much money did I have? What were the expectations of building that department? And what was the schedule and the timeline? Well, I told you we we built Vision 2030. There was the timeline. So we're looking at eight years now. Um, what was the cost? Well, I knew what the cost was because I was trying to inspire the people that we already had that were certified to just teach these academies for free, which they did. Um, and then there were schedules that needed to be created relative to the skills that these new up-and-coming candidates needed to have. And so that's how we went into the whole thing. And the EMS was the same way cost schedule performance in the business. Um The other thing that I did was how do we how do you know when you get there and you started to achieve success? Well, we had to have um we had to have requirements that that dictated here's what a fire department does. And so we created uh, and this comes from the military as an acquisition officer, we created a statement of need, and I was thinking of the fire department as a weapon system. All right, what does that weapon system need to do in the real world? These are all the requirements from the logistics tail to the operational tail to response times, all of that. So we created a documented a statement of need. And then on that statement of need, there were key performance parameters that we decided these are the ones we're going to fall on our sword for when we train. We are good, and there are measurable metrics, another military term, key performance parameters. The weapon system must meet. So one of them, for example, was response times. We decided here's the response time. Yeah, there's NFPA 1710 and 1720 that dictates a lot of that. Wasn't good enough for us. We said we want a response time of less than um six, seven minutes. So we created a KPP for that. And then we began measuring our calls as our call volume started going up. We measured our response time from the time we left the station to the location that we were going to for the incident. And you started seeing that come down. In May of 2022, we pulled the trigger and went 24-7. Then you really saw the response times come down, which is exactly where we wanted to be. So I had a key performance parameter meet. We went 24-7 and then plummeted our response times from what we what we were working on to what was very acceptable within that key performance parameter. So now we could measure our success. And then there were a bunch of others, right? So everything was documented on how to build the business so I would know when we got success. The Rims thing came up. Okay, treated the same way. There's a business. We treated it the same way. Tell me what it does, fill me in. I saw it as another challenge, just like I had at Buzon when they said, Go forth and build a TE business. Um I applied what I learned from people who came at before me and my leaders that I had, and people with my peers that I worked with, and I just applied it to the REMS team. What is a REMS team? That's that was the first question. That's where it started. Tell me what the requirements are. Back then, all we had was Fire Scope. There was no NWC G552. It was just FireScope. Guys in California, right? Brian and those guys helped put that together. All right, I got it. And then Brennan comes in and starts giving me the back detail on here's how it works, here's what happens when I'm out there. Uh, and I'm like, oh, this is the actual reality of it.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So now you had something to to target. Okay, this is what we got to do. So again, I started thinking cost schedule performance, uh, to meet the performance that he's telling me and that he desired out there. Um, I got all that. So those are the requirements. Okay, how much money do we have? Um, grants helped us immensely get all of our equipment. Nice. Um, and then the firefighters uh also helped um with it because we had people that were willing to go through the training and all that. Yep. And then everything was on a schedule. I I I I'm a time-driven person. I I don't like just dragging things out forever. Um, this this is what we had to be ready for. So we knew we wanted to be ready in September of 2024. And that's when we were done, and that's where we were available uh on on the board, as we call it, um, for deployment. Well, of course, nothing happened, but in the beginning of uh 25, was it end of end of March we went South Carolina?
SPEAKER_05It was yeah, it was the beginning of March.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so in March we we went to South Carolina and we were the only REMs team. Now we didn't do it alone. I will tell you that we had great help from the other departments that our FMO at the time exposed that hey, these guys at Dameron want to form a REMS business, REMs team. And so um he and he notified some other departments like Unified up in up near Salt Lake, Moab guys, Utah County, Provo. Um they all got in got in the middle of it. And together we worked. Here's how we're gonna, here's how we documented the cost of all the equipment that has to be acquired to do this. Here's what it's like. Brennan was on a couple of these team calls that we had with those guys, um, but we pushed it hard. So we were the first ones to go hot, go live. Um got started in March 2025. But you have to have you have to have meetings. A lot of people hate meetings, uh, but unfortunately, when you're building a new business like this, that um, and there's challenges associated with it, even to this day, but you got to meet and you gotta talk about okay, who had this action, who had that action, where are we at with this? Are we on time? Because that schedule piece of cost-schedule performance that any program manager's been thinking about, that's what was important to me is to get this done. I don't want to spend five years creating a REMs team. Right. Because hell, I could be dead by then. So, and I wanted to deploy with it too. So that was the plan. So that's kind of all of what goes into it. And when you're building a business like that, right? I have no idea how you guys, when you guys were thinking of the Minuteman business and all that, you know, what went into all the documentation. You guys knew there was something needed out there, so there was the need, and then how you go about doing it, and then you succeeded in doing it, it's fantastic. Um, but that's just how my brain worked on forming this REMS team and helping transform our department.
SPEAKER_03That's super cool.
SPEAKER_00So if it rubs off on everybody else, I don't really care. Hurricane now has a REMs team, have a Hurricane now has a REMS team that um they're gonna go live. Matter of fact, I thought they said today, one May. Oh nice. So, yeah, so we helped we, you know, we gave them some inputs. They came up, they came up and looked at what we had and the equipment we used. One of their guys went to Brian's uh training.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna ask them go to Brian's Prevails training, which is an eye-opener for everybody.
SPEAKER_05Especially the first time. Well, you know what's funny? I was thinking of like, because you got my flavor of REMs, right? I mean yeah, right away. Rams is still, in a way, the Wild West, in the sense that there is no set SOPs that every team has to abide by. So when I first came to you, I said, Yeah, we're running eight mil. I remember you looking at me like, I'm excited. I'm getting on that. Right. And you know, we were talking about break rack still. I was like, no, I promise this is what it is. Um, I mean, what was your first impression when I first approached you with at all?
SPEAKER_00So uh when you first approached me, I I was intrigued by the speed of need when you're in the field. Um, we got the same thing, you know, when you're working weapon system acquisition, all that speed of need, how quickly does the warfighter need the product, the weapon, right? So again, um it's it seemed like that it seemed like to me that what we were gonna provide was needed. Uh time is of the essence, especially getting the the level of care needed to that firefighter who just hurt himself. And then just think about it, we're rescuing our own. So, you know, that pucker factor is gonna be there too. But the whole thing just intrigued me from the perspective of this new equipment is conducive to being fast. We're not lugging up these big pulleys we got on the type one engine and half-inch steel, all that.
SPEAKER_0311 millimeter.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so to me, I I I linked it to the speed of need. It allows us to be quicker um to get there. Um, and then how quickly can we set up very simplified um systems? And as you know, I mean, I was hung up on the safety factor, right? Wait a minute.
SPEAKER_03That's a big one.
SPEAKER_0050k and oh my god. We can't go below that, or 10k and whatever it was.
SPEAKER_03And what did NASA have three to one?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. It's on now. I'm looking at going, yeah, that's as they say on how not to, super good enough. Super good enough. That's what we need.