S1E16: Craig, Unapologetically Gay Man and Federal DEI Advocate

Today Craig shares the ups and downs of federal employment in our turbulent era for LGBTQ+ rights and attitudes. Craig is an avid traveler and currently lives in Oregon with his husband, Edison, and their two fur-babies: Mochi and Uni. Craig has successfully managed several multimillion-dollar portfolios that drive operational and policy changes that align with equity-driven goals.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Ahoi, gems and jewels. And non-binary ghouls. I'm Talo. I'm Nyx. And you're listening to The Treasures of Queer Salem, where two of your favorite troublemaking pirates discover the riches of the queer sea while aboard the Salamander.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Today we're talking to Craig, who is an avid traveler and currently lives in Oregon with his husband Edison and their two fur babies, Mochi and Boone. Craig has managed several multimillion dollar portfolios that drive operational and policy changes that align with equity-driven goals.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

What are you in here for? Oh my gosh, I accidentally replaced the shampoo bottle with Nair. Oh no. Oh no! Wow, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Okay, yeah, yeah, 100%. Uh I I okay, I gotta recover from that response. Um I always like to ask our first question, which is would you please share your identity with the audience and how you arrived at this identity that you hold now?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Um, I identify as happily gay. You know, I I always add the happily part because it's just who I am in So the gay prancing through the flower fields, kind of gay. Oh yes, you know, absolutely. You know, just whimsical in ev in every sense of the word.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Awesome. And I guess so you mentioned happily gay, right? That's kind of a that's that sometimes it takes a while to get to that decision. Can can you give us a little bit more information about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Well, you know, I was very fortunate. When I was growing up, I grew up on a small island and the rock of our family was my grandma. And my grandma always taught us to embrace who we were and who we are. And because of that, I never feared who I was. And it's how I live my life, and I'm very fortunate because I know many people in our community did not have that growing up, but uh it you know, it allowed me to embrace who I was and bring that into a conversations where even though it's not necessarily accepted or welcomed, when I come as my true authentic self, they see who I am and take it or leave it, it's on you, not me. You know?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

I I think that's a really powerful message to share with the community. Sometimes it's like coming as your authentic self is what makes the change, right? Exactly. Is was that has that been easy or hard in your experiences?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Oh, spending 21 years in federal service has been very hard because I've worked in many male dominated organizations. And you know, the you know, the common thing or misconception is that you're less than because you are not straight or presenting straight in a straight straight dominated organization.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

So you weren't in the closet at all during that?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

No, I have the closet was meant for my shoes, so I was always out of the closet over my 21 years of service. You know, so it's I've always been myself, and it's been, you know, it's a really hard journey when you're facing hurdles left and right. And you know, one there was this one time when one of my supervisors pulled me in and said, You would be perfect for this promotion, but you're not even getting an interview because they know who you are and they know that you pass that interview, and by eliminating the interview process, they're making sure you do not get that promotion because they're afraid of who you are. Yeah, yeah, and you know, she put it into terms like, oh, you need to learn to play with the big boys of like I'm gay, I know how to play with the big boys. You know, you're talking to the wrong person, but you know, it on joking and everything aside, you know, working in a male-dominated organization, especially with uh straight presenting folks and a lot of people in the closet for per se in the and in those industries. But it's been you know, I've always been unapologetically me. And you know, it's something that no one can never take away. You know, I'm just very, very thankful. And you know, if I faced hurdles or faced any adversity, uh you know, I always found a way to overcome it, but it's never second guessing who I was or what I brought to the table.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Yeah. So you were born knowing you were gay.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Oh, absolutely. I came out kicking and screaming, you know, uh the platinum gay where I was sincering, you know, you never came down the birth canal or what but you know, like literally I knew uh how do I say this? I knew who I was, I was never feared, and thankfully I always had my grandmother who had the hard conversations with my my parents or my my male siblings and all the all my uncles and everything else to just let me be who I was. And because I had that strength of my grandma, that's amazing to have that in your corner.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Yes, totally amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, and you know, it's I I talk about her because she's the strength of my strength and my rock. But I kid you not, um this year is the tenth anniversary of her passing, and while we were laying laying her to rest, I said she's always been my rock and she knew best for what was best for me. So I asked her that if it was in the cards to send me someone that she would accept and you know, and that I could have that rock and that that that continue with her being gone and knowing that she's still there watching over me. And literally six months from her passing, uh, I met my husband to be and he was everything I talked to my grandma about. And for the last uh nearly 10 years, he has been my rock and my steady course in this world who took over not necessarily took over, but stepped into the role that my grandma filled and left behind.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yeah, that's such a powerful narrative. I know often, you know, especially with our community, you'll hear we want to say that it's common for people to get rejected or to go through the process of coming out the closet, but it's not always like that. There's a lot of people who are who are born to accepting family or family member um and then kind of move from there. And I know that when we when I work with a lot of youth, because that narrative of rejection and all that stuff is so common, it's really easy for youth to feel ostracized because they don't share that story. Absolutely, and it's okay to come from that, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Yes, it's really okay to come with that. But I also want to r reiterate that although I had a really strong acceptance, yeah, there were moments and there were people in my life who rejected interesting the what I was, mainly like my two older Machismo brothers, you know, and all these other uh uncles that you know there could not be a gay person in the family. How could there be? Or when I was getting married to my husband, you know, pulled aside my husband and said, We'll love you for who you are, but we're never gonna love you like a in-law because it's not in our culture, it's not in our religion, and even that, I I choose not to think to dwell on those rejections or whatnot, because it has little impact in how we live our lives. Right. So I have chosen to live an impactful life and in a positive way or in a way where I celebrate the positive rather than dwell on the negative because I really fully believe that we need to stop worrying about how people feel and look when they are not really caring or feeling uh uh welcoming or worrying about our feelings. So why should we care about how they feel about who we are? Yeah, uh care so much when they have obviously showed us what they care about and it's themselves. So I'm allowed to be selfish and care about myself too.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

There's a really popular quote with our community. It's like uh those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. Yes, absolutely, yeah. That's exactly what I'm kind of seeing here. I and I I mean, thank you so much for sharing your your narrative. Um, I really enjoy. I want to hear more about Edison, and I also want to hear more about your federal background, like your experience in that. 20 years is a lot, it's a it's quite a bit under your belt, and also you you've been able to see two decades of change, and there's been quite a bit of change since 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

Um so uh I think So it you look pretty young, so I'm guessing you were in federal service for right out of college or before?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yeah, well, I'll be celebrating 45 years this year, you know. Oh my god, you would you would have fooled me.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

You would have fooled me completely. Thank you, Korean skincare.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

You know, I love it. Thank you so much. Uh no, I I I spent half of my almost half of my life in federal service and the other half just enjoying myself growing up. So you know, but yeah, I've seen so much change, and uh, you know, you you I apologize if I j jumpstart this the question that you had, but you know, I've worked in multiple administrations and seen change go tremendous uh throughout the evolution of my career.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

I'm curious. Sorry, before I before I really want to get this story like done in the timeline. Yes, please. Can you tell us how it started? So you were about 25 years old when you first got your federal job.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

I was 23. Okay. I was 23 and I had just been laid off from my job. Um and I was looking for something to do. And at that time, TSA was hiring, you know, the the they pat people down and at the airport and stuff. So TSA was hiring, and I was like, oh, you know what? They'll hire just about anybody, you know. So let me give it a shot. It'll be a year at the most while I look for something that I wanted to do in my life and find direction. And you know, that that one year turned into three years, and then it told me I was like, Oh, I can re I can do retirement when I get older. So let me go to five years so I can be vested, and then by the time I got to five years, I was like, Oh, you know what? I'm earning so much on annual leave, let me get to 15 years so I can get, and then all of a sudden here I was 21 years later, and it felt like I blinked the entire time.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

You were were you in TSA that entire time?

SPEAKER_02 11:31

No, thankfully, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

I don't blame you. Can you tell us that more about that journey with evolution? Yeah, the evolution. Okay, you start as like patting people down, and then how does that grow from that?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Oh my gosh. I started um patting people down as a part-time screening officer. At that time, they were called screeners before they became officers. So that was uh, you know, about 2005-ish.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Then oh, so you started before no after 9-11, right? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Just as the agency became Department of Homeland Security. So my anniversary is pretty much the same as the Department of Homeland Security anniversary. So uh we started out TSA, and then because of that, I moved around. Uh, I moved from I started TSA in San Diego, and then I moved up to Portland, and Portland was where I was received the most pushback for who I was. You would think Portland of anything, and you know, it's funny because when I was in San Diego, I I was in the gayest checkpoint known to San Diego, where all the all the supervisors were gay, all the leads were gay, and part of the officers were gay, and we were like the gayest checkpoint, and we were all you know, and it was just it was just every um every alphabet of our community was represented was represented in that checkpoint. Yeah. Even before the news of transgender and transition and everything, we had people who were transitioning that were part of that checkpoint. So it was really, really open. And here I keep thinking going to Portland, it would be really open. It's great. I'm gonna, but no, it felt like I had to go back into the closet when I came to Portland. It was a different story. That that part of myself was a negative, and and everything, uh and you know, and the funniest thing is like you know, someone told me, Hey, don't stand like that. You look gay. You know, a fellow officer telling me how to stand. I'm like, Well, I'm gay. What's the what's the difference? Yeah, and he goes, Oh, you are, and then from that on, that that officer never spoke to me, you know. And didn't want to be contaminated. Yes, exactly. And I was like, We don't want you anyway. Yeah, so I was like, sorry, members only, we're not accepting members, we're not accepting applications today. Yes, exactly. And you know, the turning point for that job for me was when I got called into the manager's office and I was being under investigation because someone had filed a sexual harassment complaint against me for uh f flirting on the checkpoint with someone I was getting to know right that worked for the airline, and that that person walked over and said hello and was really chatty with me. And just because we had a conversation, this officer took it out uh took it to the point to file a grievance that I was being gay in the checkpoint, and it was really uncomfortable for him.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

And that was like, oh wow, uh you know, really shocking. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna try everything I can to get out of here because it's starting to affect who I was, and I'm always celebrating the positive, like I said earlier, and everything else. And from then on, I returned back to San Diego.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

And that must be really hard. That must be so hard hard to do relentless positivity. Yes, definitely not my style, but I can't imagine sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

It it's it's funny you say that because it's now who I am and it's not work uh in a sense, but for some people uh it's exhausting, yeah. It's really exhausting. But I live in a core a Craig world, you know, where it's literally trying to be positive about the most negative things in the world because even just living today, just trying to find something positive to celebrate on a daily has been uh a struggle for many people. And if I could bring that positivity and authenticity, it you know, then I've lived my purpose. And that's the one thing that I've uh as I grew in my career in federal service and went back to San Diego, I spent a short time in San Diego before I was uh called to go to DC and work in at TSA as an ombudsman then. And that's when I learned about uh DEO, uh and then I learned about negotiation, uh uh alternative dispute resolution, DEI, all these things that were hush hush when you were working in the field level. Now I found out that there were services that could be used by officers in the field that could um be you know of benefit, you know, classes that could be brought to the field section of TSA so that they can mediate conflicts that I had that I never knew I could I I had opportunities for. So I utilized that and leveraged those opportunities to educate my fellow officers of the different roles and different protections that they they could have taken with TSA. And from then on, I started growing my career because I started talking to the right people. I started leveraging and everything from that, and then I somehow stumbled upon budget for uh from someone who was talking about DEI and EEO and negotiation, alternative dispute resolution. Ending up in budget was the least of the trajectory of career. But I realized that with budget, you have endless opportunities, and not everybody likes numbers, and I'm always one for a game. I I think I look at numbers and I I I I think of a game of chess and I play that thing uh to the best I and because of that I became really good at budget and I became uh a portfolio manager, and from that I started my career took off, and I I I went into a different organization shortly after that. And because of that, I became the travel program manager and um budget program manager for a humanitarian mission on the border, which I spent nearly four years of my li of the last 20 years working on ensuring we provided warm meals, three warm meals and snacks to migrant populations that were within our custody. And brought a humanitarian peace and face to the thing, and that was near and dear to my heart until last year when the program ceased, and you know, and then it um you know So you were you were laid off by this administration. Not necessarily not laid off. Um I'm gonna be very honest. Here I chose to leave. Uh-huh. Uh I I saw the writing on the wall and uh you know I've always I've worked for multiple administrations, including this one in the first administration and it seeing all everything, I knew something was different this time around. And I could not uh I could not stomach it and also I could not see myself continuously supporting it. So I chose to leave and stand a moral ground. Whether I die on that ground or or I get swept away from that ground that I stood on or experience repercussions from standing there, I can say to you both today is I sleep really well at night.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Yeah, yeah. That's an achievement. Yeah, thank you. That's good. I mean I I you know we we we don't often get people who have worked in federal government here. So one thank you thank you for being here. And it's also really uh both amazing to hear that you know you had that passage and you went through and you and it wasn't easy, you mentioned that. Yeah, but you still did it, and it also is still disheartening to hear that there are things that are still happening that I'm honestly surprised about Portland, but hey, that that's how it is. Also, I'm just I when you when you said the idea of TSA and then all the letters of our alphabet represented at at TSA, that just brought a smile to my face with this idea of just like we as queer community members, we should get into TSA because we like we're often the ones that are being like TSA is kind of a background for us. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like look how the turntables look how the tables have turned.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yes, yeah, you know, and that's uh the good thing about my experience at at s uh San Diego, you know, being there in San Diego and being really open, an open place, and you know, I still to this day, um, I still communicate with uh at least a hundred of my former peers. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, so I still have really good relationships with them and I speak to them regularly from San Diego and Portland too. I still um uh and stuff, but literally uh San Diego was near and is still near and dear San Diego Airport. So for those of y'all listening in San Diego flying through Lindbergh Field, please be nice to your TSA officers because they are one of the most welcoming and just really, really good people. It's just unfortunately really. Hard job that they do.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Yeah, it is. Yeah. I do want to also highlight uh our mutual friend and how we we had a chance to connect. You uh they had mentioned that you had worked on policy regarding transgender individuals or LGBTQ individuals. I I kind of understand the gist of it, but I also am not in that world. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what happened there.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Well, you know, uh the Biden administration was really big on DEI, and we always forget the A part or the belonging part. You know, uh DEI for those of you that have been hiding under a rock or been uh being at the brig for so long and don't know what's going on. Diversity, equity, inclusion in A stands for accessibility for our um friends that need access. So the Biden administration was really big in DEIA, and one of their initiatives towards the end of their administration was a push to have every federal agency have strategic goals that outline their DEIA initiatives. And for as long as our the agent, the last agency I worked for uh has been around, they did not have any transgender policy in place. Being a uniformed organization, that was pretty hard to stomach. You know, what happened to our our officers who were transgender? What what kind of protections did they have? And there was none, you know. So uh I I joined a a group of uh um let me um I'm blanking on the thing, uh, employee engagement groups. So I joined a number of employee engagement councils and I became the the chair of the employee council for the office that I represented. And I I represented 830 employees within my office as the chair of the employee DEI group. Um that DEI group was fine uh was formed after the death of George Floyd. So it was a way of our organization or my office's organization highlighting the importance of bringing in conversation and bringing in dialogue after the death of George Floyd and how law enforcement can be part of the solution after that death. So that's how I joined that employee group. And from that employee group, I joined a an agency-wide employee advisory group, and with that, we were charged with writing the first ever transgender policy for our agency. And it uh we all co-wrote it, we reviewed and redrafted, and it was in the final processes of being implemented when the the administration changed. And within a few days of the administration changing, a lot of those policies and a lot of those uh the work that was done by my uh the team that I've I was a part of um what do you uh was erased or wiped. So it's like never existed. So, you know, it's pretty, pretty sad. But you know the fact that we actually started something, it may be hidden, it may be erased, it may be whatever. But those but I have hope that in a few years we can resurrect all those dead policies and procedures that were in place because we still have really good people working there.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, definitely. And I I definitely get the whole like erasure piece, I feel like. Yeah, you know, I've mentioned this before, but sometimes it's like you can't erase our minds. You know, we're gonna we're gonna outlive him, yeah and we're gonna and in a lot of ways we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get back on top. We're gonna try to get back on our feet. Um, and that's that's really cool. I this is not a job interview in any sort of way, but I do want to ask you a question that would be on a job interview. Okay, perfect. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Yeah, no, I'm just curious, but before you do, can I get something with the eraser piece? Eraser piece? Yes, when when we talk about erasing, yeah, for those of you who've ever sketched something and erased an erase, the outline stays. Yes, the impression stays. The impression stays. Yeah, so no matter how much you erase, whether it be history, policy, or anything, the foundation, the outline, and everything remains. Yeah. And everything's still discoverable. So don't let that, for those of you listening, don't let that erased history or erase uh uh policy or procedure stop you from being who you are because it still exists somewhere, yeah, and it's gonna be found out eventually. You know, if we could still if we could still um come up with documents that were lost at sea and brought back up to life and found what was written on those documents, just imagine the internet's forever.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Um I love that the you it the impression always stays, right? Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Um my contrary is like, well, so much art is digital now and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

I mean, if it exists in digital, it'll always be there, right? Yes, um if it's posted. Right. Uh the question that I have for you is kind of a question that a lot of our queer community um gets asked. Or like youth, family members, uh, adults. And it's often why is DEI important? You know, we you mentioned you defined it and you placed it, but I would love to hear that question answered with by somebody who has been in it for 20 years, 20 plus years.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

DEI exists because it is a foundational pillar of an organization. You need all pillars to stand for the entire building to continue standing. And DEI is there because it is a foundational, that's something people always forget. It is part of the foundation of what an organization is and should be, because it celebrates the differences of the employees within the organization. And when you learn to celebrate your differences, you're much more able to come in and work together.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's a powerful answer. That's a powerful response. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I I I really appreciate the narrative. I mean, altogether. And you're you're currently in the process of uh job hunting, yes. Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yes, absolutely. And I actually in a in an interview I change it up because you know, all of a sudden, I you know, I spoke about this in a recent gala that I was the keynote speaker, that DEI is uh is like summoning a the boogeyman hiding in the closet, and I rew reordered the acronym and I call it IDEA. Hey, yeah, it is my ideal philosophy, I call it. Yeah, my ideal philosophy stands for inclusion, diversity, equity, accessibility, leadership. So it's an ideal. I was curious about the L.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

I was like, what's up the L leadership because we all have to be leaders within our own right. So to deprive somebody or to deprive an organization or a society of DEI, you would be like uh it would be like not acknowledging human nature. Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Or acknowledging evolution in itself.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Because, you know, our differences are pretty much based uh, you know, even skin color or skin tone is a direct correl has a direct correlation to the geographical or environment that you and your ancestors came from and and everything else. So to deprive DEI and or to to not even celebrate differences is to say that we have not evolved as as people, we might as well be just another animal on on the planet.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

That's exactly it. So I I'd love to transition to the next question that we usually ask. Um what resources would you like to share with our community that is listening?

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Oh, I love this because it's really an important conversation, especially within the alphabet community, especially uh um uh because a lot of it is is now not really talked about because of the advent of PrEP or other other um HIV preventative medications and the actual conversation of HIV. So uh the Cascade AIDS uh uh project is something that it is an organ-based nonprofit, and they just recently named a new CEO. Um, and I think it's really, really important that we speak to our youth about the importance of preventative measures beyond just prep and whatnot, because it's you know, a lot of people are using it as a shield of invincibility now, because what their biggest worry was is HIV and with one pill a day, you know, a lot of people get misunderstand that it is a preventative measure, it doesn't guarantee non-transmission. Right. And the capital AIDS uh or the Cascade AIDS project here provides education as well as testing and everything else because beyond HIV, there's a lot of other SDIs that you could contract. And education on those SDIs and how they lead to long-term medical side effects or medical battles that are sometimes harsher than HIV, the virus of that that causes HIV. Because we have medication that now takes it, you know, just you know, um HPV is one of them that leads to cancer and all these other things. So, you know, by having resources like CAP to teach our younger generations about, you know, protecting themselves, value, you know, providing value in protection and and education is really, really important. It's something that we don't really talk about anymore because we're we are talking, we have left that conversation to talking more about identity and everything else, but we have left out a really part a valuable part of educating our youth, educating our youth about preventative measures, especially because most of our or a lot of our youth are uh have either run away from home or have been kicked out from home and are doing any means to survive. Yeah. And sometimes those means uh ca uh cause them to do things that you know otherwise they would have not done. And by teaching them and providing them with tools and resources to prevent the spread of any SDI is very valuable, and I think we're doing a disservice to our youth by skipping that conversation when we're also talking about identity.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh oftentimes it's not like it's not talked about in the schools. You were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Yeah, I mean it's just uh it it comes back it comes down to uh sex education in this country and how it's kind of just been getting worse because there's uh so many exceptions or that sort of stuff. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Or if they're in red states, you know, sex education is basic sex education, no mention of same-sex sex uh or any of the beyond the biblical uh uh discussion of sex.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Abstinence, basically.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Yeah, exactly. And we know uh you know, they're getting younger and younger and and the education is still being talked about like it's a faux pas, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Yeah, that's that's always kind of like the the the big element about it too. We we work with a lot of youth and and we want to make sure that that's a conversation that is spent, but there are it's complicated, right? And also, and I mean I I love that like statement of like you everybody is pansexual until proven otherwise. So you should learn everything about everything. So that when you make your decision, you're like, oh, I know how to handle this one.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yes, and a lot of it too is very cultural, and that's our other thing when we don't when we talk about sex and everything is the cultural aspect and the discussion of it, the mochismo attitude, whether you're gay, straight, or or binary uh non-binary or transgender, you know, the the cultural aspect of even just bringing it up and talking about it can be very, very daunting, but it it still needs to be had.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yeah, agreed. That would be a great transition to the next question. Um, we move over to the the question that asks you in in your knowledge of our community, the LGBTU community, um, what do you think is something that we need?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh my gosh. I think there's so much money, that's what we need. You know, I I think the biggest problem is ourselves sometimes. Yeah. So I think having a, you know, we like to think that we're a really open community, we're very accepting, we add extra letters every year, as it seems. But are we really, really welcoming to those other community, uh community members that we're welcoming into our homes, uh into our community? I don't think so. Uh I I think we're just welcoming for the sake of being welcoming, but we are not really sitting down and fully understanding where those individuals are coming from. So I think we need much more community engagement that bridges rather than separates us based on the alphabet that we land on. Uh, you know, uh, I, you know, sometimes we're our worst enemy. Let's just say, you know, just a few weeks I was reading about Jeffree Star, you know, and the the the ugly things that were said about our transgender brothers and sisters, and and how they have been, you know, are the moving targets of the community at this time. And it's just so ugly to hear and see someone of that stature within our own community who has made money off the backs of other members of the alphabet community go in and trash just because they do not understand. And I think we need advocates from our community to stop uh to you know, pump the brakes on all of that and say, hey, we need to be really understanding because you know, instead of just saying we're welcoming and adding an extra letter or a number or a plus sign or whatnot, are we really fully engaging in welcoming? Because and we are our own worst. Uh, you know, uh just I I I I think of it more I'm probably jumping uh here and there, but the the way I look at it is if I turn someone else in this community or this alphabet into a moving target, the least likely would I become the target. Yeah. I think that's what's happening. And they're catering and they are some, but in the actuality Could you talk about what you mean by moving target?

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Just get a little bit specific about that.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Well, the moving target right now, I say it because every single whether you're Republican or it's in the news. You know, our our our members of the m military who have served valiantly and served our community, served, fought for freedom, have been deployed time and time again, have been fighter jet pilots and all, just because they are transgender, it automatically was a disqualifier, and all of a sudden they found themselves discharged from a job that they have loved and have done so well, just for the fact that they have showed the world who they are. And because of that, it has been so politicized that now gender gender-affirming care for parents that feel that it's important for their child to be to be accepted from a young age and to transition, you know, there's no such thing as really gracefully, but I'm using that word to transition early on so that they don't suffer the side effects later on. And and these parents are are helping and you know, in some cases, saving the lives of their children because they're accepting them for who they are. Because, you know, suicide, another one in our community, is the highest of anything. Yeah, and we have to be cognizant of that fact. And you know, so what I'm trying to get at is the fact that we are our worst enemies when we are uh actively adding uh uh letters to our acron uh to our community, yet we are not welcoming and we are the worst critics or worse because we choose to move with the masses, and when the masses are targeting a specific group within our alphabet community, uh what they're now uh we join in so that we are not the target. You know, it's it's uh it's just really, really sad. So I think one of the things we really need as a community is true advocates who are welcoming and allow conversation to be had about what these letters stand for and what they are really about.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

It's a really cool thought of like not really cool, but it's it's a truth. It's like cis heteronormativity and misogyny doesn't care if you're not trans. It doesn't care if you're like it it views us all the same. Oh, absolutely. And so to so to it and if we if we let the wall of like if we let the trans we sacrifice the trans people because that's it. The next line is who's next, right? It's funny because it goes in order almost. Like the trans and it'll be bisexuals. If it's not bisexuals, it goes bisexual and it goes all the way down, and then once you get past, if you eliminate all the LGBTQ from our community, from our world, then it's back to the women. Yes, women who are the ones who are gonna be oppressed, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yes, yes, and that's the reason why L is always the beginning letter, too, because you know it's a fantasy, even for the straight world, you know, to have that. So therefore they're the least likely targeted of any of the alphabet community. But you know, we have this, you know, we really need to work on if we are gonna continue welcoming welcoming in our community, we need to really sit down and stop being our worst critics. Because, you know, like that that saying about not Nazi Germany, about oh, they came for so and so, no one said anything, they came for so and so, I still didn't do anything. And they all the way until they came for me and there was no one left. Yeah. You know, and we're seeing that that part of history being rewritten, literally.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

I have to say we're saying ever everyone is one one of the things about that at this current time is they're not going quietly. Right? You know, there's there's unrest and monopolis, there's been so much effort and putting into safety safety, putt effort into community safety and that sort of stuff. I'm very proud that anywhere the boot comes down people have well in in areas that we see people have come out to oppose it.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Absolutely. That that is nice to see. But it's also really, really sad to see an another part of the population fully engaged in

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Believing what is being brought out there. I I wrote the other day that you know the I there's some part of you know at some point I thought humanity was gonna win, but here you are still selling the dream. And that dream is you're selling us a plate full of sta uh filet mignon, but we all see that it's nothing but a pile of dog shit. Yeah. You know, we see it, we smell it, and we we're calling you out, but for you it's still filet mignon.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Yeah, yeah. It's not filet mignon. It might be fire. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause it.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

No, I mean no, it's fine. I think uh yeah, I appreciate I appreciate you saying that. And I think it's really cool that that we mention that, especially from that like perspective of like at the federal and your own personal life, seeing that happen and then also being able to call people and into action. Yes. This is this is a it's like it's a situation where it's like it's a democracy if you can keep it, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Like it's a democracy when it is for them. Yeah. It is a mockery if it's not. You know what I mean? We're mocking their their version of democracy.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

And uh, you know, it's just really, really sad.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Oh, there's a boson, Craig. Thank you so much for being here. Our time here is up. Thank you so much, Craig. It's been so good to talk to you. Great. Please like and subscribe if uh you like our podcast, and if you want to support us on Patreon, you could do so on Crafty Coyotes. There's no space in between those two words.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

Craig, if you could put in a good word with the captain on your way out, we'd appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Absolutely. He's gonna need a new wig, doctor.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

And remember, Salem, even when the seas are choppy, oyster colors!