Tate, Legend Making a Safehaven for Queer Young Adults

Today we chat with Tate(they/them) who is the director of the Safehaven for Queer students at Chemeketa  Community College here in Salem. Nix and Tate bond over their shared religious upbringing while Tallow is very confused by this strange upside down world they both escaped.  

Listen in to join in on the fun!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Ahoi, Gems and Jewels.

SPEAKER_04 0:01

And non-binary ghouls. I'm Cal. I'm Nyx. And you're listening to The Treasures of Queer Salem, where two of your favorite troublemaking pirates discover the riches of the Queer Sea of the Board of Salamander.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

Today we are speaking with A. They are the Queer Resource Center Coordinator at a local community college. And are a board member at Ray Bluetooth, as well as a member of Crafting Playouts. Their hobbies include fiber arts, D mid-pacing, incarnate, and rage painting their capital.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Uh, I got caught uh running a cult of rats.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Like worshipping rats?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

No, I became their god. I'm the rat king.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

I can just imagine the idea like you just somebody walks into the room and you're just like, oh no, no, I'm no, all the rats are doing that. They're the I pitched like nondescript mode. That's amazing. Okay, well, thank you so much for that. I so the the first question that we well, this is technically the second question, uh, is usually what is how do you identify and how did you get to the identity that you currently have today?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

So I identify as trans, non-binary, uh, and demisexual and lesbian.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Ooh, that's yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So we're gonna dig deep into that. Oh yeah. Um there seems to be a seeming contradiction there. So we'll we'll be exploring that right there. Um, but uh, do you want to give us a like the lowdown on like what where does your story begin? Well Take us on the journey.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It's rough. Uh so let's see. I was born and raised in Grants Pass, which uh for any listener who doesn't know, it's like Southern Oregon kind of the sticks. Um, and my family was like not super well off. Um, and my grandfather was a pastor of an independent fundamental Baptist church.

SPEAKER_05 2:58

Uh and becoming religious trauma. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah. So um I grew up in the church. I was homeschooled the entire time. So preschool through twelfth grade. And uh then I kind of got shipped off to Bible college in South Carolina. Oh no. When I was 18. So um so yeah, I think I had the first like inklings of being queer uh when I was about five. Um I kind of that's when I kind of first started feeling dysphoria. Um because I am uh assigned female at birth, so I think that's important context. So being raised to be a woman, um you know, my mom was always like, Well sit like a lady and I'm always like, No. I refuse. You can't tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_05 4:03

So you you were raised with very defined gender norms.

SPEAKER_06 4:08

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, I was taught to cook and clean and be submissive and quiet.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

You mentioned uh five years dysphoria, and my question usually is like how did that present to you?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I was playing dress up and I was excited to like put on this like Belle costume and as soon as I like put it on, something was just very, very wrong. And I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I just it was this like huge anxiety in my chest. As soon as I took it off and put back my normal clothes on, everything was better. Pants Absolutely Yeah And oh also when I was at church, I was always required to wear uh either a knee-length skirt or dress. Oh yeah. Uh and I hated it. I hated it so much that I wanted to wear pants like the boys did, so I could run around with them. You know. And instead I was in a dress and I couldn't do anything, and mom was always like, You have to make sure your skirt isn't, you know, flip up.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

And like I really like how sometimes, you know, one of the experiences that we'll have as a trans person is I I don't feel it up until something happens, and it just feels completely wrong. It's not like I look in the mirror and I don't look nice or I don't like the it doesn't hug my curves correctly, or whatever it might be. It's it's a straight up like wrong answer. Just like a brand Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yes. Yeah, it's exactly what it felt like.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

It just and it comes out of nowhere sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Um I had a couple of other experiences where I got mistaken for a boy actually, because uh I was very much a tomboy. Um and I was always competing, you know, because I grew up with all boys. It was me and one other girl, and she was like the most athletic person. And then my little gangly, autistic, clumsy ass was trying to keep up. So I just kind of that's when I started martial arts. And then I kicked all the boys' asses. Yeah. It was great.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

So uh five years old felt that kind of went forward from there. Did did you ever do anything about it? Like when did when did it actually start becoming a reality for you?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, so uh I tried really hard to be a girl. Really, really hard to be a girl. So I went through uh like high femme phase. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:44

Like classic.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Classic. So I learned how to do makeup. And when I was a teenager, it was like 2010, you know. So the cultural gender norms were very pronounced. Um, I would say maybe even a little bit more than they are now in like the general population. So uh I was watching a lot of what not to wear. I loved Stacey London, obviously. Yeah obviously. Yeah, obviously. And uh I think his name's Clive. I was like, oh, he's so cool, and then I found he was gay, and I was like, oh interesting. Interesting. Oh, also one time, uh, because we had like this weird Angel Guard like TV. Angel Guard TV. Yeah, do you know what Angel Guard is?

SPEAKER_04 7:36

No, no. I uh I don't know what that is either.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Angel Guard is a uh technology that bleeps all the bad words.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Oh I how did it do that?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

So basically it was a specific uh DVD or VCR uh and it would like uh read the thing, right? And then uh if it was on TV, it was a little easier for that. So there was a specific streaming service through Dish that we had. And uh basically we had four channels, and one of them was TLC. Yeah. So that was my first exposure to Queer Eye for the Straight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. And I watched so much of that when my mom wasn't looking, and I like I my brain couldn't put together the thing about this what I was like, yeah. You know, and I liked it better than the other TV shows. Yeah. Um, so when my queerness started being nothing like this growing up.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

I'm that old. There was no I was way be like Grace wasn't even a thing yet.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah. Oh, I was also raised on TLC. Or not TLC, sorry, um, what's it called? TBN, TBN Network. Oh yeah, Trinity Broadcast Network.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So I like watched so much frickin' John Ankerberg. So am I allowed to cuss?

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Uh you are, yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Uh we yeah fucking John Ankerberg and his wig. Oh my god, and his spray tan. Anyway, so uh like lots of James Dobson. Who is this guy? Yeah, I feel like oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Oh, it's struggling to keep up right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Okay, keep up. I don't even know. Evangelicals have a very specific culture, it's an aesthetic. An aesthetic. Yeah. So think about like Mar-a-Lago face, right? Yeah so the Trump tan in Bleach Blonde, specifically on a man. Um, but like take that back like 20 years with like a I don't know, weird, oddly too thick toupee. Um, and John Inkerberg was like this uh evangelist who had a talk show and he would like interview people. Um and he it was the same type of thing where you had like uh the 500 club and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Yeah. And like I hate that I know all this. Well, bless your heart. I hate this so much. You're bringing so lost. I actually we went to tour TBN network. Oh my god. Yeah, because it's in LA. Actually, I think it's uh Orange, Orange County. So yeah, no, continue.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Oh my god, did you go to the um the Crystal Cathedral?

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Yeah. Oh my gosh! Yes, I used to go there often and we we went to several concerts there. I remember having uh a really bad stomach flu one time there. And that did not go well. Um but yeah, it was it was it is a really stunning building. It is, it's a stunning building as you drive by. It's like this glass building, sh like a huge like Wizard of Oz type building vibe.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

The the only uh TV I uh that was really religious when I was growing up was uh like Stairway to Heaven and Touched by an Angel.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Oh, I love Touched by an Angel. I watched so much of that with my grandma.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Was that Christian?

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

There were a lot of like a lot of shows that were kind of like secretly like I I have suspicion on Dawson's Creek. Like Oh, 1000%. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

You can't tell me that the male angels were not gay. He was so gay.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Yeah. I mean, they didn't they didn't outright come out with it, that's the thing. But it was implied. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

He was always a little yeah, you know, oh yeah, yeah. A little soft, a little effeminate in a certain way.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry, we're getting distracted.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Okay, so I'm sorry. No, this is great. So uh this is actually a good jumping off point for other cultural things. So I when I was like an older teenager getting into college, I started listening to like Reliant K. Um, you familiar?

SPEAKER_07 11:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. Uh so I always really liked their music and I couldn't quite figure out why.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Um turns out it's just Turns out they're Satanists.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

Well No, they were like they were the I So here's my thought. Yeah. I think they're like the best flavor of Christian.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yes, agreed. Because they seem very accepting. Yeah, and they seem very much.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

John Foreman, Reline Kay. Yeah, that's my like wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, and just very honest about being a human and like having faults and things like that. And doubts. Yes, very much so. Uh so that was like a little seed of something, you know, because I was only allowed to listen to Christian music. Um and then went to Bible college. I went to Bob Jones University, which is where I uh I'm guessing this was a Mrs.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

degree, they were hoping to get away.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I actually had a boyfriend at the time. Um, now if you know anything about Bob Jones University, it's extremely racist. They had an interracial marriage ban until 2002.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

When George W. Bush showed up and was like, oh, this is a problem.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

This is South Carolina. South Carolina. It kind of makes sense. Greenville. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah. Uh so. Anyways, uh, I went there and I was not like any of the other girls. Um I'm not like any of the girls. I wasn't like other girls. So, oh my gosh. My roommates got accused of being lesbian too. That was really funny. Turns out one of them is a raging pansexual. Shout out to you. Love you, Hannah. Um, so then everyone else, this was okay. Again, this was 2013. So the things that were stylish for women were like big chunky statement necklaces, pencil skirts, and toms, right? And yeah, it's like a shoe type of shoe. Um, and it makes your foot look really dainty in a certain way.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

And it's like eco-friendly or something. Yeah, it's not really, but that's what they kind of started with.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

So, anyways, uh I was there and I tried to do the Toms thing. It didn't work very well. Uh, but I was in a like very old-looking raggedy skirt and uh hoodie, and I cut my hair short, like pixie shut pixie cut, and it was really short, and everybody was staring at me like I was like some hippie who was like gay. Like they it they looked at me as if I was gay and I didn't know it yet.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Wow. Yeah. So you weren't even out. This is university. This is university.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

This is my freshman year of college.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah. Uh so and I was still very religious at the time. So fast forward, I ended up going to George Fox University a couple years later, after I went, I was also a massage therapist for six years. Fun fact. Um, and that put me through my bachelor's degree.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

So you uh you graduated from the the uh Bible college or no, I transferred.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I got really depressed. Yeah. Really, really depressed.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Checks out, yeah. Um Well Yeah, I mean, I I'd like to explore that if it's okay with you. Yeah, totally. What was it that kind of caused that like downturn for you?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Well, um, it was a combination of things. Uh I had a really bad breakup with the guy I was dating, and uh I just didn't fit in with any of the culture uh because that particular brand of Christianity and southernness, like southern hospitality, is don't accept the offers that they give you, and I didn't know that. So they'd be like, Oh, you know, come over anytime, and I was like, Okay, you know. So I would like come over on a Sunday afternoon or something, and then it turns out they actually hated that. Yeah. And it wasn't until later I found that out, and I felt awful. But I was like, you shouldn't have said that if you didn't mean it.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Don't say that to an autistic person. No, or anybody in general, really. Just stop.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Just say what you mean in me, what you say. It's not that hard.

SPEAKER_04 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

So, anyways, uh everyone I met was like that. I met very few genuine people. Um, and the ones I did think were genuine were kind of the hippie type. Um so that's kind of what steered me into massaged therapy, actually, because I was a nursing major and I was like, fuck this shit. I'm good at the anatomy and physiology and all of that stuff, but like the culture of it was not for me. Because a lot of nurses are cis women and you know, stereotypically sometimes very mean, especially catty, and yeah, there's like an element of femininity that I hated and I didn't want that.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

It feels sometimes like they hate themselves. Absolutely, and then try to take it out in a kind way, yes. In a in quotations, kind way.

SPEAKER_07 17:07

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So, uh let's see. Then I uh I had my little hippie face. I went to massage school at a community college, and I loved community college. That is what opened up a lot of the world to me because I had the safety of my home, but I was meeting people of all kinds of backgrounds and uh we were all going for the same degree, it was like a small cohort and stuff. Um you were living at home there. And that's when I started experimenting a little bit more with like how I dressed. So I had my this is so stereotypical. I had my cargo shorts phase. Nice. Yeah. And I was like, I'm wearing a t-shirt and cargo shorts, and I have a short haircut, and I'm like, I'm straight.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Yeah, I was gonna say, and you still thought you were straight.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

And I still thought I was straight.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I have a whole folder of pictures that is labeled, How did I not know I was queer?

SPEAKER_04 18:18

I would please share that with you at some point. Absolutely. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Uh you figured it out earlier than I did.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Well, you know, everybody figures it out at their own pace, you know. Uh I'd love to get back to that at some point because I felt behind for a lot of things. Um but let's see. So George Fox, I met my uh closest friend, Lauren, and they were the first queer person I had ever met and gotten to really know. Um also there was one other experience I had back at home, and that was I had a sociology assignment, and I was supposed to like break a social norm. So I know I know. So I go into this pita pit and I'm so fucking nervous. I'm like sweating, and I'm like, I gotta do something. So I sat down next to these two older ladies who were just eating their eating their pita. And I sit down without asking, and they're like, hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_06 19:29

I'm like, I'm fine.

unknown 19:31

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

And it turns out they were lesbians, they were really old lesbians who were Unitarian Universalists, and they were the sweetest people, and like that experience just kind of.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Oh, my heart kind of throbbed there for a little second. There, yeah, that's so cute.

SPEAKER_05 19:47

Did you tell them I I have to break a social norm for a class?

SPEAKER_07 19:51

I did. They were like, wow, you did great, sweetie.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Um, so anyways, Lauren was the first person I uh really got to know. So like I had met a couple of queer people before, but never really, you know, engaged with on a regular basis. And at the time Lauren was identifying as bisexual. And that kind of threw me for a loop because I had these pre-existing expectations and narratives that queer people were I don't know. What what what are we I think the word I'm looking for is slutty, and I had such negative connotations for that at the time. And now I'm like, yeah, slutty. Um so Lauren really turned that around for me, and I started questioning everything. And then I learned about intersex people because I was doing some research, listen, about the Song of Solomon, and I was trying to figure out if sex before marriage was wrong, okay?

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Oh my god. There are layers to that. So many layers. So many layers.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

I listen, I got an interlinear Bible, and I went back to the original text, and I figured out that it is in fact not wrong. Theologically not wrong. Yeah, yeah. And I went to tell my parents, and my mom iced me out for like three days. Yeah. Anyways, so in my research, I was trying to like, you know, figure out like, well, what is sex? Cause that was never told to me. My sexual education was abysmal. Oh no. I know.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

But you mean like sex is in like sex is in the act or sex is in like gender and sexuality? Any of it. All of it. Just that word is no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

That makes sense. Uh so. So at this time I was 22. And um I I was kind of a late bloomer as far as everything else goes.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Um and so 22 is not late.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Well, no, as far as like having a crush or like figuring out what it meant to be sexual at all. Um, so like I feel like a lot of teenagers have that when they're like 12 and 13.

SPEAKER_06 22:30

Mm-hmm. That's the demi. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah. Very demi. Uh and also I was trying so hard to like boys. I tried so hard. But in the end it really didn't matter. So um where was I going with this?

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Stop, date. Who was your first lesbian and crush that you recognized?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Uh, Sarah. Okay. So I was at Bob Jones University again, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:00

South Carolina. There was this beautiful goth in my chemistry class.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

At the Bible school?

SPEAKER_07 23:11

Yes. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

She was she was the only goth I saw among like probably 20,000 students.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:20

And she was in my She must have had an interesting life. Yeah. Shout out to Sarah. Shout out to Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah. Um, and she like would wear a corset and heels all the time.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

And I was like, huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

And like that's all my brain could register. Yeah. You know, and then That's interesting. So, like the thing that you would do at Bible college is you'd be like, Do you want to go get a meal together? You know? And that would either be at the coffee shop or that would be at the dining hall or whatever. Well, that particular day, Sarah had asked me to go to the dining hall with her for dinner. And I said, sure, that'd be great. Well, when we got there, the dining hall was on fire.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

It was like fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Fire department, smoke, everything. And we were like, well, now what are we gonna do? And she was like, Well, I have this really great Vietnamese place that I like. Do you want to go? And I said, Yeah. So we walked and we crossed a like eight-lane highway on foot with no crosswalk.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

And we were like holding hands, you know, because we were scared. And she was like way more adventurous than I was at the time. Uh, so I was just kind of like starry eyes, you know, like, ooh, who is this? Uh, so that was my first exposure to Vietnamese food, and my world changed. Um, because I love Vermicelli, it's so good. Um, and then we got back to my dorm room, and we were gonna study and we talked a little bit, and like my roommate was napping at the time, so like the lights were down, and we were sitting across from each other, and I just looked at her lips, and I was like, I felt myself leaning in, and I freaked out. I was like, what's coming on? Oh my gosh. Yeah, thankfully I kept it under wraps.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Was it reciprocated? Did you feel that?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I think it was.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

I think it was. Um but the baby gaze.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Well, I know. I don't know if she ever made it out, you know?

SPEAKER_04 25:31

I hope so. I hope so too.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

So I hope you're out there. I know she's living in China right now. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Oh, you know that okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Mm-hmm. So I hope I know she's married and I think she has a kid now.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

But uh, I hope she, you know, is living her truth. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, that was my first that was my like first queer experience that involved any kind of like attraction or anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

So when when did it happen? When did you come out?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

When did I come out?

SPEAKER_04 26:03

Yeah, and how did it look like?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Well, uh, remember my friend Lauren. Uh well, actually, I have another thing to say after that.

SPEAKER_07 26:11

Oh, go, go, go.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I was I had taken a gender studies class at George Fox, which was the very last one they offered. I was in the last cohort before they cut those classes. Um, because George Fox is a Quaker school. Right. Quakers are typically pretty open-minded, but it's become increasingly more evangelical. Uh, so they've been systematically cutting out gender studies and women's studies. Um, but when I took my gender studies class, that's when I realized, oh fuck, I'm oppressed. You know, I was not raised to have rights. And I, oh my gosh. I learned about pallow logocentrism. Have you ever heard that word?

SPEAKER_04 26:55

Please define that for us.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Okay, so I'm gonna break it down into parts. Fallow logo centrism. So it's the centering of knowledge around a phallus. Right. I know, right? But it's like the idea of men having control of language for so long and writing in general. So, what is the female perspective, you know? And that messed me up because I was so confused. Um, and I couldn't quite figure it out. And one time I was talking to my girlfriends, and I was like, I think I think like a boy.

SPEAKER_06 27:35

And she was like, No, you don't. And I'm like, I think I do.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

She later came out as a lesson.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

You were you were you you were doing the like uh I'm getting the the the literal translation, dick word-centered.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yes. Right, that is correct, yeah. Um, let me see. So uh that's kind of when I started having my gender crisis because I came across the work of Judith Butler. Love them.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

That was it. And uh the performance of gender, and that really got me to thinking like, how do I want to be? And uh, you know, there was a lot happening in my life at the time. I was in a relationship where I married someone uh that was at my parents' behest, more or less. And then I graduated and, you know, kind of got right into my master's program in English teaching and stuff like that. So it wasn't until the pandemic when I was laid off for my job that I had time to think about things. I know.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

The pandemic was just this perfect incubator. It really was. For eggs.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

It really was. Well, because you had so much time by yourself to think, and you had to live with yourself for once.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

And not for a week or a month. It was months. Maybe years for someone.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

That's what ultimately got me too that actual exposure and being friends with queer people.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yep. Yep. So uh I came up to one of my other friends and I was like, I don't know what I am. I just think I'm some kind of fruity.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Some kind of fruity.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Oh, friend. Yeah, I know. Uh so, anyways, later I came out to my friend Lauren in a letter, and they keep it in their wallet to this day. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

That's so cute.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

I love them so much. Um, so they're the first person I came out to.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

And but here you're questioning sexuality. Yes. Not quite gender.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

For me, gender came first.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

And I feel like that's pretty opposite from a lot of other people. Because most people are more in touch in touch with their sexuality.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

But for me, that was so removed because of purity culture.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

It it might also be the demi.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

It I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Because I felt the same way.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Yeah. It's definitely like, oh yeah, that's right. I have to consider that as one of the factors. You know, like, well, wait, what does that mean now that my gender is this way? But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, I was just having sex because I thought I was supposed to. And I married at the time what was a man because I was supposed to.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

You know, and You don't want to disappoint people.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Well, and I hadn't deconverted yet either. Because in the middle of all of this, I had my faith crisis. And it took me a solid like four years to kind of like come out of being raised in a cultish environment.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

So this is all two 2020, 2001 when you're isolated and thinking all these deep thoughts and you're married.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

What was your partner thinking the whole time?

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Well, uh they're kind of complicated because I've divorced them at this point.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Um for a lot of reasons. Uh they afterwards started using they them pronouns and chose a different name for themselves as well. But to a certain extent, they maintain the privilege of being cis male and haven't necessarily deconstructed that and what that means. So you can try on a dress and it's okay because you're a boy. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

So I kind of felt like they piggybacked off of my progress and didn't think about it all the way for themselves. So it's complicated. Um they did not like it at first. Um, in fact, when I got my hair cut, because I had grown my hair out after the, you know, 2013 pixie cut phase. Um, and so when they met me I had longer hair and I had kept my longer hair. Uh, and then I got it cut and I loved it and they hated it. And they were like, I don't find this attractive. And I was like, Well, sucks to be you. Sucks to be you. Um Also the last day I darkened the drawers of church was after that haircut and uh someone came up to me and was like, Well, what does your husband think about this? And I said, What's it to you? And I never went back.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

How dare you drop a pencil? Um So yeah, uh let me see.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

So where are we in the timeline now? So I've deconverted.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

You have you haven't divorced yet.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Haven't divorced yet.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

You've deconverted. Yes. To me, did were you and you already come out gender-wise. So you were non-binary, already? I was non-binary. But your sexuality was still figuring that out. Figuring it out. This is this is before I'm I'm fruity or after I'm fruity.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

This was I'm fruity. Okay. I just don't know what kind yet.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Okay. This is that fruity face. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I was like, I'm just like some sort of like, I don't know, fruit cocktail, you know? The ones where it's like ambiguous juices.

SPEAKER_05 33:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

That sounds oh that sounded so weird.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

I'm just thinking of like the little moths fruits cocktail. Yeah, I'm Hawaiian punch. Some of that stuff is some of the little fruits in there, you don't you don't actually know what they are.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Some of the fruit might be high fructose corn syrup.

SPEAKER_05 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Just a ball of so um at the time I was actually working at George Fox and I was undercover, and I was the only queer person a lot of my students had contact with. And so they would come up and they would talk to me. And uh I found kind of a little community. Um turns out later there's uh there was a place that was developed outside of George Fox, specifically for the George Fox students, uh, who are queer. Um it's called Table 14.

SPEAKER_07 34:19

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Mm-hmm. So plug for that. Love it. Um and so I had taught at George Fox and I became like the resource center coordinator and whatever. Um, and I had a handful of other people come out to me over time, and it was like real hush hush. Like, 'cause I had to sign a contract saying that I didn't believe in gay marriage.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

That's what I was gonna ask you right now. It was George Fox one of those schools. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Uh in fact, I know of a lesbian who didn't get hired because she's a lesbian.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Yeah. My old school uh fired a professor when they came out as trans.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

I'm looking at the wall, Azusa?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah. Yeah. I had friends who went there.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

That's right, it's right there. Yep. But you that happens and you're a safe space in the community. What happens next?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Well, uh, with all of that, I was getting really, really burned out. Um, because I could no longer handle being trying to pretend I was a woman. Even though I knew I wasn't. And I had been telling myself, like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna medically transition. I don't know that I see the point in it, and all this other stuff. Like it's a big decision. You know, and also a lot of money, and I'm poor, so I also context. I'm a first generation student, so like neither of my parents graduated college. Um my grandparents on my mom's side did, but they went straight into the ministry, so it was like not necessarily education focused. Uh and my parents also were very like anti food stamp.

SPEAKER_07 36:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

So like a lot of the resources that I now know are available to trans people that I didn't even know existed at this point in time.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

So um I had to learn all of it on my own.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Uh, and that was a it's been a lot of hard work. Uh so let's see. So I quit George Fox and oh, I became a local legend. Oh, how so?

SPEAKER_06 36:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

So 5 p.m. on my last day rolls around, right? And I'm like clocking out. I grab my pride flag and I parade around with my friends all over the quad. Yeah. Right in front of the vice president's office. Yes, too. And she sees me and she was just at my going away party, and I was like, see you later, users.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

I've been gay the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Oh, and at my exit interview, they were like, Yeah, so why are you quitting? I was like, so I'm gay. And they're like, oh yeah, that'll do it. I was like, mm-hmm, bitch. Uh wrist snap. Period. So um later, one of my friends tells me that one of her, like, she was working at a pizza place and they hire a lot of like summer people from George Fox, right? She overheard one of the like dishwashers being like, oh my god. And then there was this person who like was flying a play flag around campus, and I saw it and like, what the fuck was that? And I'm over here and I'm like, yes. Because that friend was there with me that day, and it was really cool.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

So that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

I'm now a queer cryptid. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_05 37:51

Do you do do you go back occasionally and just like run around with the practice?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Uh sometimes I go back just to like remind myself where I came from.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Is it still not allowed to be queer in in George Fox?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Correct. It's actually gotten more conservative as time has gone on, so it's more dangerous now than it was. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

I forget those pockets of the world exist sometimes when you're out over here.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Rumor has it that they have a uh like you can still be a student if you're queer, but you can't be a professor or a staff member if you're queer.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

Oh, so you could still be a queer student.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

There are a lot of queer students at George Fox.

unknown 38:31

Huh.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Mm-hmm. Okay. A couple of them uh got together and like protested and stuff. And uh some other other person I know um actually came out during the annual lip sync battle. Oh to a Taylor Swift Swift song. And then Taylor Swift like retweeted the article. Yeah that got I think it got into Teen Variety or something.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Really cool.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

This is Newburgh, no?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah, this is Newburgh.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Newburgh gets a bunch of attention that is kind of surprising. Like when AOC showed up because of the the the flag at the high school, like it was Newburgh's got there's there are things happening in Newburgh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:09

Yeah. It's it's a weird little town.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

It is surprisingly not McMinnville, but I would expect that from McMinnville and it's not.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

I find McMinnville to be a lot more queer.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

I that's what I'm saying. I I would expect more reputation and more kind of like but no, Newburgh is the one that gets it. The one that you think is gonna be the one that's I think probably that's why is the attention comes from there, is it's it's it's a flower growing amongst amongst all these like gravels and stuff. It is. It's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Did you know that uh Yamhill County has some of the highest density population of queer people in the state of Oregon? No way. Yes, it does. Really?

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Yep. Okay, you gotta share those stats.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Uh I actually got it from someone who did the like health report. Yeah. For the county. Whoa. Yeah. So it's like legit. Um, and it's because there's Linfield or yeah, there's Linfield, Shamecada, and George Fox. All in the city.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Oh, that's right, the Shameckada campus. Yes, that's right. That's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

I'm gonna go back to something you said. Yeah. And then you kind of we pinned it. You said we talked about like you felt behind. And that you said later on everyone figures it out at their own pace. Did you want to follow up on that?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

I do. So um after I like came out as non-binary, I felt that like I I never got a hoe phase. I didn't, you know, I was raised in purity culture. I was not allowed to have sex. I wasn't allowed to think that I had my own body. I didn't have autonomy. Um and so I felt very behind from some of my peers. I felt like some of my students were ahead of me as far as like understanding like their own gender and sexuality.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

And I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Later, uh, I talked to a friend of mine, uh his name's Peter, he's really cool. You should actually interview him.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Please, please recommend.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah, Peter's great. Um and he has this theory about like queer developmental stages and them being different than cis people's developmental stages. And how queer people have kind of like a time dilation as far as like things you're experiencing in your 20s are probably what other people were experiencing as teenagers. Yeah, because you're you you grow up, you're trying your brain's developing, you're trying to figure out who you are, what you want, what you believe. And then when you realize you are different and you have you live different and think different, you know, and you have to find other people like you, it's you know, it takes a lot more effort.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

That makes a lot of sense. You have like Ericsson's model, like 14 to 21 or something, the question is, who am I? And if you are so closeted within yourself, you can't you can't really discover yourself when you won't even allow yourself to discover yourself. So that that that entire bracket of your time is just sort of a dissociative nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Okay, my favorite quote from Avatar The Last Airbender is Zuko, you must look within yourself so that your inner self can reveal itself. Only then will your true self reveal itself.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Yeah, there's wisdom in that. Layers and layers. Layers and layers. We are onions. Except in Queer Worlds, we are reverse onions. Rainbow onions? Reverse onions. Like I feel like we we we kind of start off by I guess what I meant to say was it's like it's like right, you it's like the layers are less about who you really are and more about who you really are not.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Yeah. That's kind of where how it works for me. We're like those little Russian dolls.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 43:18

So y you did you want to follow up on that?

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Or did or did we Yeah, uh, so basically I just felt behind and I felt like I had catching up to do. So I've been and also I was homeschooled, so that didn't help. Um, so I was very intentional about trying to catch up on like queer media and queer history, you know, because I didn't know I didn't even know shit about Stonewall until like four years ago. You know? And like sacrifices our um our ancestors, if you will, our queer ancestors have made so that way we can be where we are. Um Um, you know, I didn't know about any of that. So I've been really trying to go back and like learn about it because as someone who like I'm 30, right? So I'm an I'm unk, as my students have called me. They also call me uh gay Jesus. I don't know how that one turned out, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:19

Okay. I was I was just looking for my my sign, such as you know, watching all of One Piece. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Actually, yeah, One Piece is hella queer. Hella queer. Um so like uh I don't know, too Wong Fu. Yeah, or uh honestly watching all of Drag Race was really important for me because I wanted to know like it it's drag race spans from the early 2000s through now, so you're able to watch how the political like environment has shifted. Plays out within the context of the queer community, exactly, and in some of the interviews you get little blips of like how lateral oppression works, yeah, and like colorism and stuff like that, and it's and it's like and then it's like halfway through where you are like marriage and and rights for marriage because it's like Yes, yeah, yeah, that's funny, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

You sorry, let me let let me also kind of like get this other piece out too. Um, you come out of uh your experience out in George Box.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

And now I want to kind of like soft transition into the next question. Usually the next question is what resource would you like to share with our community?

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Uh well, the safe haven is that's where I was thinking we were gonna go. Yeah, safe haven is where I work, and that is the LGBTQ resource center at Shemecita Community College. Um it is a fun place. We have lots of crafts, we have uh a bookshelf of condoms, actually, and literature on like consent, and we also have uh some of our students do like poker on Wednesdays, which is really fun. Uh, and then we have like all kinds of board games um and snacks. So it's a great place for people to come and do their homework, hang out, grab a juicy juice, you know, those are really popular. Yeah. Um, so plug for where I work.

SPEAKER_04 46:37

So the the question would be like Chemecata, does it actually have an LGBTQ center? For a person who's never been there, like I would I expect that from Chemecata?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

So um we have in the past had other locations for mini safe havens. Um, but currently we are located in building two on the Salem campus, room 229, which is upstairs. Um, so it's like a room. Um I'm working on trying to get more.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

I'm working very hard to try and get more because Sounds like you need one out in like the Jamekata campus out.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Oh we used to have a little like once-a-week gathering at the YVC campus.

SPEAKER_07 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

And it was great. It was actually doing really well, but you know, some of our funding got cut. So we had to scale back on things.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Yeah, that's that's kind of like what a lot of things are going towards right now.

unknown 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

But uh yeah, I love working, working there.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

What kind of resources do you offer? I know you mentioned like snacks and stuff like, but I know you've done quite a bit of really cool events.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yeah, so uh usually we do an annual drag show. This year we're actually gonna be doing a uh combination event of a movie night, plus uh it's gonna be hosted by Riri Kaliente.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

It's gonna be fun. And we're gonna be showing to Wang Fu at the Salem Cinema. Um, and so we're kind of doing a two-for-one event.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Y'all sell out.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

We do.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

Last time that I tried to get in there, I was like, tickets sold, can't go.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yep. We actually booked two nights this time, so very excited. Uh we also, I'm hoping to get involved with the Pride Parade and the block party. Um, so we're gonna be trying to do a little bit more outreach this year.

SPEAKER_04 48:30

Yeah. That's amazing. Cool. Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Uh and resources that we have outside of that, like uh I help students navigate things that will help them. So I can help steer them towards the counseling department. I can help them find clothing for an interview, I can like help them figure out who to talk to about financial aid and stuff like that. Um and also I'm just here as a resource to chat. So like students come in sometimes and they're like, hey, Tate, I don't know if I'm a lesbian or not. That's this is a conversation I had like two days ago. Yeah. It was really fun. Um, and then like people can just talk about like where they're at with their gender journey and like see like what my experience has been with like top surgery or hysterectomy or anything like that. Um, and I do my best to stay very informed of like most up-to-date practice, best practices for trans people. So I can like steer them in the right direction.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

That's awesome. Cool. I know for a while there your your funding even for your job was threatened for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

It was, I was laid off for a while.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

But I'm glad that you you stayed. You sound like a really powerful and you and just loved resource in Jamecata. Yeah. And in our community naturally. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to ask the last question. Okay. The one that we always kind of go after that one, which is kind of turning it around on you and asking you, you know, in your radar of the community, what do you think our community needs? What are some resources our community needs?

SPEAKER_01 50:15

I've been thinking about this question because you sent it to me earlier, and that's a hard one for me. I think for the most part, I think about uh the rural community. Um, because like I grew up rural and I didn't meet a queer person for a long time. And if I would have, I think I would have been able to start my journey a lot sooner, and I wouldn't have been depressed for as long, you know. Because it's like, oh my gosh, gender-reforming surgery really helps. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

Surprise, surprise, surprise, who would have known?

SPEAKER_01 50:51

So um, yeah, so I think uh I would love to see more rural resources, healthcare resources specifically, and also um education on safe scan and consensual sex, because from people I've talked to at the center, like they don't know what loot is. And I'm like, all right, so let's talk about it, you know. But it can't just be me, it's gotta be bigger, you know. So I'd love to see more improved sexual education.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

Yeah, that would be phenomenal. I think we definitely need that in our community as well. Awesome. Oh, wait. I almost forgot. There was a question that I wanted to ask you from the beginning. You said non-binary lesbian.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Doesn't make sense, does it?

SPEAKER_01 51:47

I am one of the like Twitter-debated snowflakes.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Okay, what?

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Have you heard like have you seen Twitter and how like awful it is towards trans people?

SPEAKER_04 52:02

Oh, yeah, no, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

So uh there's been a lot of discourse about like he, him, and they, them lesbians. Like, how can you be any anywhere related to being masculine?

SPEAKER_04 52:12

It doesn't compute.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Exactly. Well, here's the deal. It's my business.

SPEAKER_05 52:21

But you know fuck you, I am.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

You know, so for me, uh like I'm very comfortable. My gender is if like a twink and a butch lesbian lived in the same body.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Inside of me are two wolves, but if the twinkle so they fly sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Um, so they're like, for me at least, my gender is equal parts masculine and feminine, and I think I'm I lean mask, but that doesn't discount anything else, you know. So uh I like women, and it took me a long time to come to that. Uh glad I did, because I have a wonderful partner now.

SPEAKER_05 53:07

I'm I'm just still imagining like two wolves, and one's got a dog collar on and the other one's holding the leech.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

The one holding the leech has a a leather vat.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

The one holding the leash is the butch. Yeah, exactly. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Give me some anime characters that resonate with that one.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Let me see. Well.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Okay, so Emporio Levonkov from One Piece. Oh my god, okay. Love her. She's based off of um Tim Curry's character.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

In Rocky Horror Picture Show.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

And her power is the hormone hormone fruit.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

And she the first thing you see when you get to her little gay bar in prison is this straight guy comes in and he's like, You guys are awful. And she's like, get forcibly feminized, bitch. And I'm like, yes, girl.

SPEAKER_07 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

And she can like change it well, and you know, but she wings mask.

SPEAKER_07 54:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

And I love that.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

Representation.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Representation.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Oh, there's a boson. Tate, our time here is up. Thank you so much, Tate. It was so good to talk to you. Please tell us where in the sea we can find you.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

You can email me at Tjax, J A C K S 77 at shmeckada.edu.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

Beautiful, great. Please subscribe and leave a review if you like our podcast. Or you can support us on Patreon at Crafty Coyotes. No space in between words.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

Alright, on your way out of here, could if you could put in a good word with the captain, uh, we'd appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

I'm on the DL. I gotta go find my rat cult.

SPEAKER_04 55:16

Oh my god. Yes, have them bust us out. Yeah! Breakout! Alright, Ed remembers to give them even when the seeds are choppy, oyster colors.